Let's Save the Sega Saturn!

[@ridiculous_gaming]

The biggest issue was Sega US vs Sega Japan. The rivalry here was the biggest nail in their coffin.

[@atomicskull6405]

Sega USA was approached by a group of former SGI engineers with a prototype console they had developed, it was significantly better than what Sega was working on (the Saturn). Sega Japan said no. Then they went to Nintendo and that prototype console became the N64.

[@Nintenboy01]

@@atomicskull6405 it's the CD-based N64 we never had

[@Lord_Deimos]

Yeah, good luck trying to convince the clowns of Sega Japan about anything.

[@Kadamose]

@@atomicskull6405 The N64 was a pile of crap and Sega was 100% right to pass on the technology. Even with the Saturn's 3d short-comings, it was still a better console than the PS1 and the N64 by a mile.

[@josephfrye7342]

No shit I mean Jesus flipping Christ already.

[@viewtifuljoe99]

"It's the Sega Saturn, Marty! Somethings got to be done about Sonic Extreme!"

[@gouto172]

The title it's enough for me, Saturn deserved so much

[@francescosmith7859]

Wow, I would have LOVED the Sega Gold Series idea!!! What a brilliant way to reward those who had the Sega CD while continuing to highlight some of the best late titles on the Genesis. This is a real shame Sega didn't think of this one.

[@toronaldaris]

They just didn't want to admit that Interactive Video wasn't the way to go for all of the CD Library.

[@CarlosXPhone]

​@@toronaldarisit sort of was, just not FMV games.

[@Swordslinger-hb1ns]

If you want a good port of Doom on the Sega Saturn keep John Carmack’s programming meddling away from Rage Software and let them use the custom made engine they intended to use that way it’ll run at full screen AND 60FPS.

[@OrtemionQC]

Yeah, that guy has a great idea.

[@RadikAlice]

As nice as the AGES 2500 line was on the PS2, this is simply much more cost effective. Experimentation and remakes can be left to something else

[@loki.odinson]

This is probably one of my favorite episodes you have ever done. I'd love to see you do another in the same vein, either as a Part 2 by building upon your ideas here, or make it it's own animal: Saving the Sega Dreamcast.

[@Bristecom]

In my opinion, the Dreamcast was as near perfect as it could have been for the time. I just mentioned the reasons why in another post, but basically they made all the best decisions considering the time-frame and costs as a company who didn't own several component manufacturing plants like Sony. Their past mistakes and future competition was simply too much for them to handle. There was no way they could compete with Sony's affordable DVD player, Nintendo's name, and Microsoft's well designed high-tech console by 2002. As much as I loved Sega hardware, I think they made the right choice by ultimately going software multi-platform (although they unfortunately slowly fell apart from there).

[@G.G.___162]

​@@BristecomI hear ya there; But I wonder: if the Saturn would have been more successful (like if it went as Sega Lord X planned it here, and no 32X), leading into a Dreamcast the way it was (with maybe a DVD player added in with the extra funds from the semi-succesful Saturn era), ultimately having more umph behind Sega by 1999 - 2000: Would Microsoft have ever even entered the console market? It seems like maybe Microsoft would have stuck with Sega, like they were in the beginning of the Dreamcast. If the Dreamcast was doing well, then maybe Microsoft wouldn't have seen the opening into the console market that they ended up taking. But I dk.. maybe Microsoft was going to enter the console market either way, and were always going to use their experience with Sega to better understand how to step in the market. It is kinda suspicious how Microsoft basically got a tour of how the console market works alongside Sega, then this random Peter Moore guy comes in and takes over Sega of America; He pushes for Sega to leave the hardware market, then conveniently all of the sudden becomes the president of the Xbox division of Microsoft lol Almost seems like an inside job lol

[@Bristecom]

​@@G.G.___162 As I mentioned in another comment, I understand that the DVD drive was a major factor in the PS2's success, but I do not believe a DVD drive would have been a good choice for the Dreamcast. Something to keep in mind is that in 1998, DVD's were just starting to get out there, and the drives were very expensive and slow. Using a DVD drive in a game console would have made loading times abysmal at 2x speed instead of 12x speed of the GD-ROM, and the drive and MPEG2 decoders would have added at least $100 to the price, not to mention all the licensing fees. By 2000, DVD's were getting much more popular and Sony held the rights to DVD and manufactured the drives and decoders, plus the costs were coming down and speeds slightly increasing, so they were uniquely able to offer it in a feasible way. And considering how many combined home entertainment systems miserably failed in the 90's like the Philips CDi, I think Sega was rightfully scared of marketing it as such, and decided to stay in its corner as a dedicated game console, whereas it made much more sense for Sony to reach out into other markets with theirs. When it comes to Microsoft, the only role they had with Sega for the Dreamcast was enabling the ability to program in a Windows CE environment and with DirectX if a developer chose to. Very few games ended up using this feature because it was slower than Sega's API and not much easier unless they were only familiar with making Windows PC games. This was also done so that programmers could use Microsoft to develop for the Hitachi SuperH architecture in things like car infotainment systems. It sounds like some people at Microsoft wanted to make a console regardless of Sega. They wanted to improve gaming on Windows, and making a console was a way to accelerate that, and also enter into other markets to take even more share from competitors like Sony. I think Microsoft just happened to come out with Xbox at the right time when Sega was at their weakest, and they did a solid job of offering a powerful/high tech design that was also easy to program for.

[@G.G.___162]

And bonus thought: they really should have made the Dreamcast controller with 6 face buttons; I mean it's basically the exact same controller as the 3D Saturn analog controller; but they took 2 buttons away.. why!?? lol And it desperately needed a 2nd analog stick; why they didn't do that is equally as dumb as taking away the C & Z buttons, as the dual analog PS1 controller clearly showed the direction that analog controls were going, and what more could be done with a 2nd analog stick. Sega really seriously went out of their way to drop the ball with those two decisions. With this in mind: I was looking at a list of canceled Dreamcast games on Wikipedia; although Wiki is notoriously often just incorrect when it comes to video game business history. Very interesting to see on this list, was: Halo! Just imagine what that could've done for the Dreamcast; however: with only 1 analog stick, that just wouldn't have worked out very well. Another one that I've heard many times was canceled, but was not on that list, was: Grand Theft Auto 3. Just imagine what that could've done for the Dreamcast as well! Aparrently there was no actual development done though, it was just a plan at one point. and while again, no second analog stick isn't good for that; it wouldn't be a deal breaker as it would be for Halo; Just look at the PSP GTA games; they played great with the 1 analog stick. And this one sounds a little more believable, as GTA 2 was on Dreamcast and they had a working relationship with Sega. Oh the would'a could'a should'as..

[@Bristecom]

​@@G.G.___162 I agree that not having a second joystick was the biggest flaw of the Dreamcast design, although with that said, it wasn't as bad at the time coming from N64 but became clearly beneficial with newer games. I'm still not sure how I feel about having 6 buttons though. I had the Saturn 3D Control Pad and outside of arcade fighting games like Street fighter, which used all 6, it just ends up looking and feeling kind of awkward. I remember reading in an interview a long time ago that Sega decided to switch to a standard 4 button layout for simplicity as most of their developers preferred it. And obviously all other game controllers only use 4 buttons (with the exception of the odd black and white buttons on the original Xbox controller), so it was probably the right choice switching to 4 IMO. I would have loved to have seen some of the cancelled games on Dreamcast, particularly a lot of the early Sega games that went multi-platform like Gunvalkyrie and Virtua Fighter 4, and Super Monkey Ball and such. They were probably improved and better off on the other consoles but there's just something so charming and raw about Dreamcast games - Sonic Adventure on DC vs Sonic Adventure DX on GameCube for example - the GC version just looked a bit off with the "improved graphics."

[@jeffb.6642]

I think one of the biggest reasons for the Saturn's relative failure was Sega completely ignoring their established IPs that were beloved by so many Genesis fans. As any SLX viewer has heard him mention in several videos, there was NO mainline entry for ANY of their beloved IPs available for the Saturn at launch - or ever, in the case of some of them. It would be like a new Nintendo console launching without a Mario game, or one even on the horizon. The closest we ever got to that happening was the Gamecube launching with Luigi's mansion instead of a proper Mario title - and well, the GC didn't exactly shatter sales barriers compared to the competition. It needed the hook of a familiar IP.

[@SegaLordX]

Yup. It doesn't get said enough.

[@maroon9273]

Plus, they abandoned master systems ips as well. Infighting led to sega to abandon there franchise ips for new ones.

[@Oysterblade84]

@Jeffb.6642 Wasn't Super Mario Sunshine on the Gamecube and an original mainline Mario game or am I missing something?

[@GreyMatterShades]

@@Oysterblade84 Mario Sunshine was a mainline Mario game, but it didn't come out until almost a year after the Gamecube's launch.

[@Memelord1117]

Hell, a properly done Knuckles Chaotix could've been the Saturn's Luigi's mansion. Even then, sega could've made up for that with shinobi and streets of rage, along with other established franchises.

[@alisson1900]

You fixed the past, man. Congratulations. Excellent video.

[@loganford3921]

If we don't get a Saturn mini then Sega should do a Sega Saturn collection. They have done Sega Mega Drive collection so many times so it would be a nice surprising change if it did happen.

[@blakejohnson4713]

If Nintendo is going to gatekeep Snes collections, Sega should go the opposite route and just keep pumping out Saturn and Dreamcast collections cross-platform. If I could pay $29.99 for a 50 Saturn game collection, that shiz would be bought yesterday.

[@FlyingDuckMan360]

@loganford3921 The games I'd like to see in the Saturn collection or the Saturn Mini: * Baku Baku Animal * Bug! 1 & 2. * Clockwork Knight 1 & 2 * Daytona USA * Fighting Vipers * Nights into Dreams * Sega Rally Champsionship * Sonic 3D Blast * Virtua Fighter 2

[@frankflores6793]

You're 100 correct about it needing to be backwards compatible with the Genesis. That probably would have put it in the number one spot.

[@FZuloaga]

Dude goes back in time and doesn't stop world wars... dude rebuilds the Saturn. Yeap, that's one of my favorite youtubers.

[@oxogood9018]

Hear hear

[@vancityguy]

If it wasn’t for two World Wars, Japan wouldn’t have the awesome game companies we’d love today. 💥💥

[@sirprower]

Saving the Saturn would also mean saving the Dreamcast!

[@jeffb.6642]

Yes, if only because the Dreamcast wouldn't have been shunned by all the Sega fans who got burned by the Saturn already.

[@diegoarmando5489]

Nope. Saving the Saturn creates the possibility of saving the Dreamcast. Sega could have crushed the 32-Bit generation and still messed up afterwards.

[@jeffb.6642]

@@diegoarmando5489 Possibly - but I think burning so much of their fans goodwill with the 32X and the Saturn is what hurt the DC. There was no saving the DC without having fans willing to buy it.

[@marcelosoares7148]

Probably. If the Saturn had sold better, they would probably have the funds to put a DVD drive in the Dreamcast instead of the GD ROM which would help the console agaisnt the competitors.

[@Charlie-eq3dj]

Sorry to say but Sega had no chance after the Dreamcast. Microsoft with its deep pockets would have forced either Sega or Nintendo out one way or another. Nintendo has enough capital in the bank to sustain many years of loss but Sega didn't. The market is big enough for 3 major console manufacturers (almost barely) but not for 4. Someone had to go one way or another with the introduction of Microsoft into the gaming arena and it wasn't going to be Sony.

[@powerfulaura5166]

Really great video, but I would like to request that when you reference Crash Bandicoot in the future, please get capture of the PS1 originals rather than using footage of - & implicitly equating them w/ - the N. Sane Trilogy remakes like @ 15:15 & in your old _Saturn's Would-Be Mascots_ video.

[@RetroGamerBB]

To save Saturn in the west, they would have had to have made the Genesis games playable on the Saturn from the start via cart adapter or just using the cart layout from the Genesis. 32x would had to have been sheved and never launched.

[@rampantmjolnir]

With a late 1995 worldwide release, Sega would've had access to the Hitachi SH3 at 45MHz or 60MHz for the CPU, and could've gone with a single 4MB pool of shared memory to cut costs and simplify the architecture. Revised VDP would need to use triangles as primitives and the include a z-buffer. Even without costly texture filtering, a z-buffer would provide an image quality edge over the PS1. Throw in a 4x CD-Rom for faster load times, launch with the 3D analog controller in the box, increase the internal save memory to 256KB, and pack-in Virtua Fighter 2 (JP), Sega Rally (EU), or a 2.5D Sonic game (USA). That's a very competitive product at $399 in 1995, and then price-drop to $299 before the N64 launches.

[@ArneChristianRosenfeldt]

Texture filtering comes from free on the N64 , while z-buffer does not. Now just give me a palette with 3 lookups per cycle. ( must be the reason that N64 does not bilinear ) ( Jaguar can do two lookups ).

[@StrelokBoggard]

For some reason this episode got me nostalgic AF, the Saturn was the last console before me and my friends finish high school and went our separate ways. Somehow I feel that if the Saturn would’ve had last longer so would that era before responsibilities took over. I miss those times

[@DhinCardoso]

I miss it too... Saturn was the last console before the adulthood ate my life and was the goodbye for my friends...

[@HouseOfFunQM]

If SEGA had just put INSANE hype into the Saturn as the proper successor to the Mega Drive, definitely in England it would've done WAY better. Everybody here had a Mega Drive, we absolutely loved it!

[@ultimateman55]

The only thing I might add is something you've mentioned in the past: Sega not expanding on and adapting their arcade releases for the home market the way Namco did. I like the idea of packing VF1 & 2 together, but I think additional content should have been added. Unlockable characters or cars, CG rendered endings, and additional gameplay modes would have beefed up many of Sega's home arcade releases and given them more replay value. I'd have loved to see VF, Daytona, and Sega Rally get the same treatment as Tekken and Ridge Racer.

[@MatSpeedle]

It's crazy that many of these idea's sound like common sense with the benefit of hindsight. I love the Saturn and it deserved a lot more, even so still a great console that I still love to play to this day. I think with this approach Sega would have had a much better chance of staying in the fight.

[@leonkent1365]

I think Sony and Nintendo could not believe their luck when SOJ and SOA were fighting.

[@keyboard_g]

There were so many consoles coming out in the mid 90’s. Even without missteps it would have been a tough battle.

[@CaptainCaveman1170]

Microsoft's intentions to bully their way into gaming was certain death for SEGA...no matter how much we could imagine changing things. MS had effectively infinite resources and the will to use them. Eliminate Microsoft's console ambitions and the conceivable scenarios for SEGA are numerous.

[@PutlerHuyIo]

​@@CaptainCaveman1170MS would probably just buy Sega if Sega was in healthy state come Xbox release.

[@CaptainCaveman1170]

@@PutlerHuyIo They certainly had the option to, but I think they saw the sad financial state SEGA was in and said, we'll just gently squeeze them out of the chair. That was probably the best PR option for Microsoft imo because had they outright purchased SEGA, they would be known as the bully and tyrant that killed SEGA by many retro fans (even though they effectively WERE the bully that bought their way into SEGA's seat at the table, which killed SEGA as a console maker anyway).

[@Thor-Orion]

Sega could have survived, they were in a really good position in 93-94. The launch of the 32x at the end of 94 was the start of the downfall. If they had done things differently they definitely could have survived the same way Nintendo has. Sony and Microsoft have outspent Nintendo by truckloads, but Nintendo making smart decisions has kept them in the market. With proper management there’s definitely a possibility Sega could have survived.

[@ShadowEl]

The thumbnail really says it all. I understand SEGA letting Naka's Sonic Team division do whatever they wanted creatively...but given their name, they should have been mandated to produce a Sonic game FIRST, then move onto passion projects like NiGHTS and Burning Rangers. Never has the disconnect, if not full on rivalry between SEGA HQ and SEGA of America been more clear as SEGA's Japanese executives and creatives not deeming it absolutely necessary to have a proper flagship Sonic game ready within the first year of Saturn's life. I don't think a 2D Sonic a la Chaotix (which was prototyped as a Sonic game to begin with, with Mighty essentially being a Sonic reskin) would have done the job either. They needed 3D Sonic and they needed it before or around when Nintendo was unleashing Mario in 3D.

[@JamesChessman]

I think NiGHTS is the 3D Sonic game that Saturn needed but obviously it didn’t work out right for most people apparently

[@ps3inquisition441]

It needed a Sonic game at launch. It needed to be backwards compatible with Sega CD/Genesis/32X. And it needed to launch at $299. Probably impossible, but we can dream.

[@Megageoe]

The Saturn started with strong sales in Japan, even outselling the PlayStation in November/December 1994. I don't remember 1996 sales, but it was doing relatively well until Final Fantasy VII was announced and released for the PlayStation. I remember also hearing rumors at the time of Enix considering a Dragon Quest on the Saturn. Things could have turned out differently, at least in Japan if either Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest were available on the Saturn.

[@KrGsMrNKusinagi0]

saturn was a success in japan.. Achieved all the goals i thought it would here in the states.. Living in japan finding all the games we missed was depressing

[@Megageoe]

Most of my Saturn games from 95-99 were imports, so for me it might still be considered one of my favorite systems. @@KrGsMrNKusinagi0

[@HajimeNoJMo]

@@KrGsMrNKusinagi0then again, a lot of Saturn’s exclusives in Japan were just “too Japanese” to succeed worldwide

[@darinherrick9224]

@@HajimeNoJMo sure. But nowhere near the amount that were Japanese exclusive. Policenauts, Hyper Duel, Elan Doree, Kingdom Grand Prix, Radiant Silvergun, Battle Garegga. There’s amazing games that never should have been Japan exclusives. When Saturn was at its peak the biggest fans were importing games from Japan. That’s a complete disaster. Those people could have been buying two or three games released in their own country instead. But U.S. got mostly crap.

[@HajimeNoJMo]

@@darinherrick9224 Yeah, X-Men VS Street Fighter was inexcusably Japan exclusive, and yet the rest of the world got the shitty ass PS1 port.

[@JAGO_Tech]

Something that gets overlooked often is the PS1 $299 didn't include a game or save method. The apples to apples was more $380 to $399. Marketing worked for Sony. Good point on memory cards.

[@ArneChristianRosenfeldt]

You know how prices for electronics went down at the time. Postpone as much hardware purchase as much as possible. Dunno why no CD included though.

[@sneshead3326]

SEGA shouldn’t have wasted so much money on the tower of power SEGA CD, 32X etc. they should have gone straight from the mega drive/Genesis to the Saturn and then they might have stood a chance

[@DarDarBinks1986]

If Sega had me around, they'd have done just that: Gone straight to the Saturn AND made it backward-compatible with the Genesis library. Make a cartridge adapter if need be! Ditto releasing a proper Sonic game for the Saturn. Not having a Sonic game for the Saturn at launch is like Nintendo releasing a new console without a Mario game at launch. I like the idea of streamlining the schematics for the Saturn and removing the internal save battery. Why make a console hard to develop games for when you can make the programmers' jobs easier?

[@neilmclean1527]

All great ideas. What I think the Saturn really missed was a well documented SDK. 3rd party developers were left in the dark about how to get started with Saturn never mind how to get the best from it.

[@eponymous7910]

This. If 3rd party devs had access to software libraries from launch the Saturn would've fared a hell of a lot better. And by launch I mean September, not May or whenever it was back in '95. A more polished Daytona alongside VF Remix would've been a killer one-two punch

[@luishenriques5089]

Along with SGL being properly shared to third parties instead of being kept only in-house would have helped a lot to make the Saturn more acessible.

[@HydefHyde]

Interesting video. I think your plan is pretty much spot on. I would only change a couple of things. I think that investing resources into that 3D accelerator expansion cartridge for the Genesis is a similar mistake to what the 32x was: spreading resources that could be better spent elsewhere as well as fragmenting the potential customer base. Instead, I would incorporate those resources into native backwards compatibility for the Saturn by including the Genesis ASIC chip on the motherboard, and further sweeten the deal by allowing it access to the consolidated Saturn VDP that you proposed. This would result in games that can be played on either Genesis or Saturn as the 16 bit console enters its final year, but with additional enhancements when played on the new system. This would entice new customers as well as allow us to continue to sell software to the existing Genesis customer base for another year while the Saturn gets started. A killer launch line-up for the Saturn (like you proposed), showcasing the new and exciting games while being backed by 6 years of backwards compatibility for Genesis games would have been very appealing.

[@Pegfoxx]

Yes that would be a good move. Backwards compatibility I like the sound of that!

[@roberto1519]

I thought the SVP cart idea was just a mini 32X, like you say, we also know now, as the documentation of SEGA's sales figures are open to the public and available over the internet that people were hardly buying Genesis games by 1995 unfortunately, retail stores had a rigid policy for games companies and their profits weren't great, they also had many headaches from returns from a huge amount of unsatisfied costumers, so supporting 16-bit at that point was basically useless.

[@SegaLordX]

You aren't spreading resources thin with the SVP cart because it enhances software we already have in development. It is not a 32X replacement. Something like Montana 95 could have had a polygon stadium for instance. Enhancement at an incredibly low cost. It's also important to understand the Sega leak some months back was not about the Genesis not selling games, but rather Sega of America producing too many of them for retail space.

[@roberto1519]

​@@SegaLordX In all honesty, while many people and myself included enjoyed the Sega CD, the only good adapter\addon Sega ever released was the cheap Power Base. The Sega CD didn't return any meaningful profits, so while the idea of expanding SVP to the Genesis circa late 1994 onwards would just keep creating yet the same consumer confusion both the Sega CD and 32X did, specially since it was parents who bought these expensive electronics and games to their kids, mostly, they wouldn't even get the appeal of it, much less want to buy more hardware. Let's take the SNES, in the long run it sold basically 10 million more units than the Mega Drive, no CD addons or 32X expansion, just solid library to back it up and enhanced cartridges, this is important, consumers were still buying ONE cartridge, they didn't have to buy extra hardware to play ONE game on ONE console, the caps is not screaming is just to highlight what I find important here. I know most of us enjoy technicalities and expansions, I do myself, but from a marketing perspective, this just hurts your success as a company. My brother and I enjoyed DOOM first on the SNES and there was nothing like it for a 16-bit console, no matter what elitists say about the port, it was and still is amazing. Now let's imagine a SVP cart for the Genesis with DOOM, instead of the consumer requiring the 32X addon AND the cart, now we're confused. I believe that a SVP DOOM would be much better than the SNES release and even than the rushed 32X, specially if they had a decent amount of time to develop the game.

[@maroon9273]

​​@@roberto1519Samsung license and manufacturing cost from the svp made it very expensive. Sega could've collab Hitachi released a 2nd revision of the chip with a custom made Coprocessor. Which will be cheaper than the svp chip. I don't think doom on the svp would've been better than the 32x However, it would've been playable than the snes version

[@speedyink]

Did you stumble across the leaked documents from Sega from around the Saturns time period? The look into behind the scenes is so fascinating. They knew things were bad, but they just couldn't sort their shit

[@UltimateGamerCC]

especially not when they were infighting, rather than the American and Japanese markets working in unison, they struggled and had conflicts with each other.

[@protocetid]

Had my fingers crossed those documents would be addressed in the video.

[@joshoshea3194]

I've been a fan of your channel for many years now but it's episodes like this that really prove that you know what you're talking about and not just an opinion. Not that it was ever in doubt of course. You know way more than me and i don't mind admitting it 👍

[@Charlie-eq3dj]

1. Make the Saturn backwards compatible with the Genesis/Sega CD/ 32X. This allows 2 different generations of hardware to enjoy the same games expanding the customer base rather than diminishing it that has traditionally been done with each generation up until the PS2 changed that. 2. Release better development tools for the Saturn including the ability to do proper transparencies. 3. Do NOT release the Saturn during E3 which soured relationship with retailers. 4. Do not rush games and give customers a bang for their buck. No more games with 3-4 tracks or levels.

[@feljerdm3021]

Cries in ManxTT

[@bigedwerd]

I'm going to jump ahead before watching the full video because I love this topic. The answer is very simple: let Tom Kalinske do his thing. He was in talks with Silicon Graphics to get their 64 bit chip that ended up instead going to Nintendo and he was trying to work with Sony to make a Sega/Sony system. People who were too stubborn to listen just got in the way. Imagine a 64 bit version of the ps1 and that's what the Saturn could have been. Instead of the N64 we probably would have gotten the Ultra Nintendo as a 32 bit cartridge based system and the Playstation wouldn't have been a thing other than architecture-wise going to the Saturn so all of the great titles Sony got would most likely have gone to Sega/Sony.

[@matthewponce1942]

I always have this idea that, in an ideal world where Sega wouldn't mind to delay a game; maybe Sonic 3 (as a whole and not split into two) could be a groundbreaking launch title. I mean, S&K was launched just one month before the saturn in Japan.

[@MacUser2-il2cx]

But then you had all 4 games in a collection on one disc for Saturn. I like the idea of doing that for certain collections. Japan even got a collection for Disney games, Phantasy Star games, and even Columns.

[@PutlerHuyIo]

Sonic 3 was too primitive for a 32 bit platform. Gaming journos would bombard Sega with critical pieces like "There's no reason to upgrade"

[@MacUser2-il2cx]

@@PutlerHuyIo It looked good for a 16 bit game. A lot of 32X games looked the same as Genesis games so that was a common thing to say.

[@maroon9273]

Sonic 3 and knuckles don't even need the svp chip. Just release both of them later in 1994 or just release the cancelled limited edition (one cart) for new genesis users the same time as sonic and knuckles lock-on cart.

[@MacUser2-il2cx]

@@maroon9273 Sonic 3 Complete was a great way to do it.

[@retromacman620]

Love this and I think your ideas are spot on. Of the Saturn had been easier to develop for and Sega hadn't wasted time and money on the 32x things might have been different.

[@eversosleight]

I really hope they release the Saturn Mini 🤞 Great video!

[@voteDC]

A Saturn mini would be nice but it's not likely to happen at the price people expect to pay for the Mini consoles. Saturn emulation is pretty fantastic at this point but it's also quite resource demanding.

[@PutlerHuyIo]

​@@voteDCRaspberry Pi 5 (a $60 device) can now emulate Saturn pretty well, unlike it's predecessor Pi 4. Not to mention Raspberry Pi Foundation will probably release a 2gb version for like $40 in near future (emulators don't give a fuck about RAM anyways, it's all about brute CPU power)

[@shivasthong4924]

@@PutlerHuyIo the fact a 30 year old console still isnt fully emulated.

[@mrlaidback83]

And a Dreamcast Mini as well.

[@TheNameIsSR]

​@@shivasthong4924it is, but it needs relatively powerful hardware

[@burgerinabox6063]

For the Genesis, I think they should have pushed the Sega Channel for more areas/have more software, it was decently priced and if they added more games, got more subscribers, and maybe utilized your 3D Accelerator idea, they could have kept the Genesis busy with much fewer dedicated resources.

[@GeomancerHT]

A 3D accelerator, like, the 32-X?

[@djhenyo]

@@GeomancerHT No, that was a co-processor. Not a single piece of circuitry in the 32X was designed exclusively for computing textures, triangles, or anything else found in 3D graphics.

[@burgerinabox6063]

@@toby2581 That is true, but maybe they could have made a bundle with phone companies to deliver SC with their help. All hypothetical though, and your answer would probably still stand no matter the "what if" scenario.

[@UltimateGamerCC]

i still miss SEGA Channel, 3 years of memories.

[@WhatsOnMyShelf]

Maybe, if they did something with AOL, that would help give Sega a first-movers advantage getting consoles online.

[@ClexYoshi]

I am glad that you addressed the human factor in this in the preamble, because that's the real thing that would need to be overcome; Ego. There's so many paths to take; the one where Sega and Sony actually team up, make gangbusters, and maybe instead of Samy merging with Sega down the road, we get SegaSony or something of that ilk. There's the one you chose, the one where something wildly different happened to sabotage Sega's competition and the Saturn just barely manages to squeak by in a 90's based video game crash? It all comes down to the individuals who played their roles and put their hearts and souls into the hardware and the software, and the differences of vision that were irreconcilable. There's so many impossible moving parts; courting third parties that had their own things going on at the time, system architecture and getting everyone on the same page on how to best utilize VDP1 and VDP2, even getting consistent vision between Japan and Sega's overseas subsidiaries.

[@apollolux]

The two most important decisions you propose in this video that I definitely agree with are Sega not competing with itself and making sure there's a proper Sonic game on the Saturn at or near launch. Almost everything else seems to be kind of "obvious-in-hindsight" decisions in comparison to those two, and in aggregate probably more important than having a launch Sonic or no 32X but nowhere near as important when taken individually.

[@jessicasretrolunacy]

I think the Power Base 2 is brilliant. I'd have taken it a step further and made the Saturn backward compatible with Sega CD games. Those games were highly profitable compared to cartridges, Sega could've raked in extra software sales, extended goodwill to those who bought Sega CD hardware, and made it easy to upgrade Genesis titles to play on Saturn for those who didn't already own the big hits. What I would change from your strategy is the SVP chip; scrap the Genesis version and bring a version of it to the Saturn, with a massive RAM upgrade for near-perfect arcade ports. Having the CD quality sound of the PlayStation and the fast loading of the N64 by using an arcade RAM upgrade could've been a huge flex for Sega and made the Saturn more unique, instead of being seen more as a lesser PlayStation.

[@atomicskull6405]

Adding the Master System graphics modes to the Genesis's VDP are why they left out the originally planned sprite scaling and cut the color pallets in half to 4x16. They had enough space on the die for one or the other and chose backwards compatibility over making a better VDP. The Power Base convertor was just a slot adaptor the Genesis was hardware compatible with Master System games already, but at the cost of the afore mentioned sprite scaling and 8x16 color pallets as well as the extra 64k of VRAM. The VDP can actually use two 64K banks of VRAM which doubles the number of tiles as well as halving VRAM access speed because the VRAM is now twice as wide and the tiles are interleaved across both banks. The Z-80 and it's4k increased manufacturing costs to to make up for that they removed the second 64k bank of VRAM.

[@jessicasretrolunacy]

@@atomicskull6405 True, but that doesn't mean it had to be the same case of sacrifice with the Saturn playing Genesis games, especially were it streamlined and optimized in a way like SLX suggested.

[@Abesteroni]

I totally agree that Genesis backward compatibility should have been a must, as it was a no-brainer for other consoles that included this, such as the PS2 and Wii. As far as needing a Power Base 2 adapter goes, I don't know that it would be totally required if the cartridge slot were shaped properly and not a two edge connector split, and the processor configuration of the Saturn itself could do the job of a stand alone 315-5960 ASIC if it were configured differently, with backward compatibility factored in at the inception of development, further saving costs. Either that, or maybe a 315-5950 expansion card that adds backward compatibility and other specific chips to the Saturn via the rear expansion port. The same goes for the Sega CD, no reason not to be backward compatible with that as well. I also agree with the cancellation and shift of all 32X development, the Saturn as a standalone flagship going into the late 1990's should have been the move.

[@Memelord1117]

The saturn could've been presented as a mix of the n64 and ps1, attracting BOTH CD players and the old cartridge players.

[@Abesteroni]

@@Memelord1117 indeed- if the Saturn was designed to be both forward thinking and deeply backward compatible all the way back to the Master System via Power Base converter (once again, by having a unified, non-split edge connector input to the main board itself) it would have been an absolute boon for Sega fans in the late 90's.

[@Memelord1117]

@@Abesteroni What do you think the sales for the big 3 could've been in this alternate timeline? For me: PS1: 70-90 mil N64: 35-45 mil Sega Saturn: 35-50 mil

[@Abesteroni]

@@Memelord1117 I would imagine that the numbers would look something like that, since the winner of a given generation usually provides the path of least resistance to games people want to play. Even with different CPU/GPU tech under the hood, using CD's, low licensing fees, and a lower entry point to the consumer, they won the generation because all those latter factors were lucrative and attractive for both consumers and developers/publishers alike.

[@jeffb.6642]

Another missed opportunity was not having the Saturn be backwards compatible with Genesis/MD/32X and Sega CD games.

[@griffgames9538]

Yes, especially for the US/European market where the Genesis/MD was a massive hit with many users having large game libraries -- the Saturn cartridge slot should've supported Genesis/MD carts in full backwards compatibility. That would have completely changed the Saturn's appeal with western audiences.

[@jeffb.6642]

@@griffgames9538 Yea I saw he briefly touched on it near the end of the video after I posted my comment. My idea for it would have meant no extra adapters or hardware required - just design the RAM Expansion slot to also accept Genesis games like you said and since it already had a CD drive, enabling it to play Sega CD games shouldn't have been difficult either.

[@avalond1193]

32x was not needed and waste of resources

[@maxxdahl6062]

That would have priced the system out of competition that was already 100 bucks more expensive than PS1. at 2 or 3 hundred more than PS1 costs no one would have bought it.

[@maxxdahl6062]

@@toby2581 That and most people like myself that were going to make the jump into the saturn in the mid-90's already had a genesis set up going. There's too little return on what the costs would have been.

[@parazels83]

They should have gotten together their best developers and ask them, how to build the next gen console. I read, Sega's internal R&D teams were very atomized, they didn't share their experience at all.

[@IronicSonic83]

Just a few teams at Sega could do 3D games. That's why Sega decided to go with 2D in the first place

[@atomicskull6405]

Sega was offered what would eventually become the N64, the group of SGI engineers that developed it went to Sega first and Sega turned them down.

[@maroon9273]

​@@atomicskull6405plus, they had a opportunity to wait and let yuzuki and Lockheed Martin or nvidia (nv2 project) design the saturn hardware.

[@joshuasanderson7359]

There is a cultural difference between developers in Japan and the West. Often features will be reimplemented and not shared and work and ideas not shared between programmers in Japanese titles. Not sure why it was that way, but it is changing as Japan is more internationally integrated

[@magiccardmaker3588]

Image if SEGA had a crazy idea and rereleased their systems and games into the retro gaming market using this as a blueprint for the release.

[@titantim]

I always felt that Sega shot itself in the foot by trying to be first to market. Genesis before the SNES, Saturn (and 32x) before the PS, Dreamcast before the PS2. It always came back to bite them in the butt, as the competition always had more power.

[@joshcurrie7781]

Eternal Champions 3D on the Saturn would be unbelievable. E.C. Challenge from the Darkside is my favorite 2D fighter!

[@dnmstarsi]

Same. Sega of Japan should've tried to focus on more than one fighter even though E.C. was a Mortal Kombat klone.

[@maroon9273]

Saturn will have enough firepower to compete with battle toshiden and tekken.

[@GANGRELION]

That was a nice thought exercise. Now you have to make part 2: "How would you have saved the Dreamcast". And then part 3: "What would've come next for Sega if the Dreamcast had succeeded". Looking forward for it! 👍

[@blubbntroet]

Knowing how it all went I can imagine your steps could have made a differnece! Had a MegaDrive as a kid and wanted the Saturn so much but soon I learned about the N64. It’s just been the bigger brother that made the difference that’s been the PlayStation that our parents got us. Games looked better, friends already had the PSX and lets not forget the Saturn was more expensive 😕

[@sonikku9173]

I believe the best way to save the Saturn would have been: -Delaying the console by one year, to November or December 1995 in Japan. -Opting for fewer, larger chips instead of many smaller ones, which made it more expensive (Sony and especially Nintendo followed this path). -Using a single CPU, the Hitachi SH3 (SH7708) at 60 MHz, which began production in 1995. It would handle game logic and act as a geometry engine, outperforming the SH2 combo. -A single VDP manufactured by Yamaha that combines the functionalities of both (something like the Nvidia NV1), running at a higher speed with a single memory pool in line with the speed and using dual-port memory like SGRAM, plus including a texture cache within the chip. -Simplifying the sound chip to have fewer channels but with ADPCM compression, and removing the 68EC000 (which is also useless for emulating the Genesis because it is not identical), as the SH3 could handle it. -Simplifying the CD subsystem, which is more complex due to things like the MPEG card expansion; removing the SH1, etc. -Not launching the 32X, but instead using the SH2 as a support chip for the Mega Drive

[@matthewfunk6435]

I love the idea for this video. I think about this era a lot and what went wrong. Your timeline is both amazing and sad cause we won’t see it 😢. Sega lord your ideas are absolutely on point you clearly did your homework

[@keyboard_g]

A beefier VDP would have been a tall order. Just remembering the marvel the N64 was to get the SGI technology into a console. They were leagues ahead of everyone.

[@shiru8bit]

And even with that, N64 architecture, while is really much streamlined compared to the Saturn's, is still a major headache to deal with. PS1 was much easier.

[@slashrose3287]

Various things to say, let's recap: 1) SVP cart was indeed planned (along with even Daytona USA!), then it was scrapped and a standalone VR cart was made instead; 2) Almost surely SS project was with a single SH2 with actual VDP1: after Sony PSX specs was announced, Sega "cleverly" thought was to added a second SH2 and a separate VDP2 --> surely a dual CPU was a bit off for that time (althought we should remember Model 1 & 2 arcade board got almost 10 CPUs/DSP each, so Sega was ready to develop on multi-processor board), the PROBLEM was/is the reduced bus size between CPU(s) and VDP1, which does NOT allow contemporary data flow from BOTH CPU due to being too small (it was, again, planned as a single CPU, NOT dual, BIG mistake); also, different VDPs got incompatibilities (VDP2 image "cover" VDP1 image, see famous Low Score Boy SS tech video for details) and FINALLY, choosing stretced QUAD texture instead of triangle wireframe rendering was a BAD situation from the start, just for the fact you cannot properly do specular 3D effects like alpha blending (I know recent XL2 work, but this situation mainly remains the same). "Fun" fact: Namco(T) was ACTUALLY developing 3D conversion for SS (see Cybersled SS prototype around on Ebay), then Sega rivaltry won (another stupid situation / mistake from Sega, again...) and they became first party PSX developer (well done Sega..).

[@erwanlecainec3394]

If the Saturn had been successful everywhere in the world, the quads wouldn't have been a problem and developers would have gone this way. Quads became a problem as soon as PlayStation was based on triangles and everyone, players like developers, decided to choose the Sony brand. PlayStation 2 was the least developer-friendly system of its generation, it has been the most successful system worldwide. If Saturn had taken a good lead at the beginning of their life spans, who knows what 3D development style could have won the favours of the industry ?

[@maxxdahl6062]

The model 1 and 2 arcade hardware also ran on quads, so i can see why they went with that, that's what sega knew.

[@luishenriques5089]

Imagine if the Saturn had an Echo the Dolphin game with Nights into Dreams graphics, Eternal Champions with the VF2 engine but with gore, if we got the canceled Streets of Rage 4 by Core, Sonic Jam as a full 3D game released early on or at least in 96, 3D Vectorman that played similar to Burning Rangers as well, a proper single player 3D Phantasy Star game with the same graphics engine of Panzer Dragoon Saga (if released before, or around the same time of FF7 could have been a more direct competitor and a tremendous looker), 3D Altered Beast, Toejam and Earl, ESWAT... One can dream of that...

[@LuSanification]

A 3D 32 bit Phantasy Star game would have been a dream at the time

[@Dorelaxen]

Simply listening to what Tom Kalinske had to say about the Saturn in general would have gone a long way, that's for sure.

[@billcook4768]

One of Sega’s big obstacles was being in the arcade business. Competitors like Namco really made the PS1 a success while barely acknowledging the Saturn. How do you fix that?

[@nattila7713]

that you cannot fix :(

[@gtocool99]

On SVP chip idea you propose, i also proposed it to a friend group, because the success the Snes had implementing those chips on their last gen games. Had it been an cheap add on I could have waited a big longer that extra year.

[@1515jet]

Man, launching with a real Sonic game, Streets of rage 4 and Star Wars arcade would of been a game changer for Sega.

[@shiru8bit]

It likely would be a game changer even without any changes to the whole other story, with the same hardware etc.

[@mikeclark4480]

Loved your changes. Well thought out and could have been accomplished. A Saturn that competes with Sony might have been enough to keep MS out of the console market and would have pushed the Dreamcast out to 2000 or 2001. Everybody wins Great video and thank you again.

[@denraimei32]

And since Microsoft owns Windows, they would likely push for PC gaming instead.

[@DarDarBinks1986]

Speaking of the Dreamcast, Sega was nuts for not using DVDs for the games. That proprietary GD-ROM format was never necessary. It damn well didn't stop piracy, as the Dreamcast became one of the easiest consoles to pirate games for. And when the PS2 came around, anyone who bought it had both a game system and a DVD player in one convenient package. VHS was already on its way out and why have separate standalone game consoles and DVD players when you can have both for the price of one? Sega should have embraced DVDs if they wanted the Dreamcast to be more competitive.

[@stephensheehan8107]

I think there is 1 thing they could have done. Buy Core Design…. As they had a very strong relationship. It would have kept them in the war

[@jsttv]

All of your ideas are spot on. The Saturn would have lasted longer, and sold more. In addition, to your ideas: Have North America have all the Capcom 4MB ram cart games. X-Men vs Street Fighter ran rings around the Sony PlayStation version.

[@EastyyBlogspot]

When I look back I just think how different things would be with simple changes...like better 3d hardware and easier development with Saturn, ram bump for Psone, larger texture cache for N64

[@dan_loup]

The N64 texture cache is twice as big as the PS1, but it's 10 times dumber. Just making it smarter would go a long way. Now another thing that would help the N64 immensely would be some sort of cache or arbitrer circuit between the GPU and the memory. As it is, the CPU and video chip (and parts of the video chip) are constantly fighting for the memory in a way it gets WAY slower than it should. The memory is quite fast at reading data sequentially, like address 1,2,3,4,5,6... because it has a internal memory counter that gets incremented on each read or write. however, as its a 32bit memory counter and the memory itself is 8bit, you have to make 4 writes to the memory every time you want to jump to another part of the memory, and its very easy to get in a situation where both the video chip and the CPU want to access completely different parts of the memory, and they end up doing an address war that dramatically reduce the memory speed. Now if you had something that went "now now, let it read a bit THEN you jump and read a bit", you would reduce this fight

[@ArneChristianRosenfeldt]

@@dan_loupI thought that every CPU insisted on the ability to write single bytes? Why would RDRAM have this 8 bit databus, but still insist on alignment like it was a Jaguar? And what is the problem with the shared RAM. In a typical game loop things run more or less sequentially. Anything else adds latency. CPU could do NPCs or streaming while RCP uses RAM.

[@dan_loup]

​@@ArneChristianRosenfeldt First, the CPU mostly read and write and work from it's internal cache, so being able to do 8 or 32bits etc don't impact the RAM. Now the ram is 8bit because it is the whole point of the RDRAM. instead of having this wide 32bit bus operating at 133Mhz, you get this 8bit (9 actually) bus running at 500Mhz, so you need to use less pins in the PCB and chips at a cost of some latency. And finally, both the CPU filling the cache and most video operations are totally sequential, but the system let both happen at the same time, which makes it completely non-sequential as you get two devices trying to make sequential accesses in two different spots of the memory at the same time.

[@ArneChristianRosenfeldt]

@@dan_loup probably the blender has the same cacheline size as the CPU. The cache on a miss probably wants to load the whole line. The 9th bit is invisible to CPU, RSP, TMEM. It is such a waste. For only 9 bits the N64 has quite a lot of pins. I wonder if the CPU has to wait on its own cache before it can read elsewhere?

[@dan_loup]

@@ArneChristianRosenfeldt You can and should make the CPU stay as much as possible in it's cache, but it's not mandatory.

[@Funkysauce]

As people have been saying, you have to do one of these videos for the Dreamcast! My Saturn experience is what led me to go with PSX but I was back on the Sega train big time with the Dreamcast.

[@IuriFiedoruk]

1. Make the console architecture simple. Even with all Sega's issues, that alone would make a huge difference in the medium and long runs.

[@retroblitz3533]

Great video, I agree with everything and would only make one change. As part of the hardware changes, I'd make the cart slot compatible with MegaDrive software along with enabling the Saturn to play Mega CD games. When I first had my Saturn back in the day, I was surprised it wasn't back compatible. My brother still uses his MegaDrive to play his Master System games 😊.

[@Edexote]

The single most important change they needed were properly documented development tools. A good C language development kit, like the one that enabled the holy trinity of VF2, VC and Sega Rally. That would enable much better software right from launch. Having developers deal with assembly programing with several processors was the most stupid thing they did. That damaged the Saturn far more than it's architecture.

[@rayaspo4893]

I remember trading in a ps1 for a sega saturn in 1996 because I so wanted to play sega rally. The look I got from the guy at electronics boutique was epic. I don’t regret that trade I found some absolute gems I would have never got to play. Good times

[@Memelord1117]

What kind of look was it?

[@rayaspo4893]

@@Memelord1117 😂 like this guy is mental, I don’t think anyone else at that time even considered doing that trade as the Saturn was basically dead at that point.

[@jahdorose8659]

I agree with everything u mentioned also having a new street of rage sequel and golden axe probably would of helped

[@jongeo]

You'd have to get in there in like 1993 to prevent the 32X from existing. The amount of unsold stock they had for consoles at the time the saturn launched was NUTS.

[@SegaLordX]

I was thinking this would have to start late 92, early 93 at the latest. The changes to the Saturn itself needed time.

[@griffgames9538]

Think of all the Hitachi chips the 32X was cannibalizing from production volume for the Saturn. The 32X's existence literally made the Saturn harder to reasonably price at launch and during its first year, because chipset production volume cost reductions couldn't happen for Saturn while so many chips were being allocated to 32X. Ironic, considering the catastrophic losses Sega incurred on unsold 32X hardware within a year of its launch.

[@jongeo]

@@griffgames9538 Compared with Sony using their own chips at cost.

[@maxxdahl6062]

@@griffgames9538 Weren't they different chips with different clock speeds?

[@JamesMSmithsDeadYouTubeChannel]

Sadly, the only realistic way to save the Saturn TODAY is to stop treating all the titles like pieces of the holy grail and price them fairly in online auctions. And I get it: Titles like “Burning Rangers” are more elusive than common titles like “Clockwork Knight”, but if you’re acting like a spoiled rotten kid who doesn’t want to share your old toys, THAT’S part of the problem. I’m not saying rare titles can’t be pricier, but the fact that so many Saturn titles go for thousands upon thousands of dollars is an actual nightmare and prevents people who are curious about the console from even starting! I’m the kind of guy who likes sharing experiences with my friends, and enjoys playing the SEGA Saturn when I can, but it’s awfully difficult when collecting games for the Saturn is a financial nightmare! I even sent SLX an email about sharing the Saturn as an experience with my friends back in the day! Speaking of, this video was very informative and sparked a bit of curiosity. Thanks again, SLX! You never fail to not only entertain, but enlighten…

[@timkasansky2528]

Sega would do better back then if they : -Developed the games people wanted, from the franchises they wanted. (so, no Bug!, Nights, stuff like that at least not at first as these games were "strange" and unproven) -Not leave important titles to be developed by contracted developers. People would buy games based on their name only, as long as they're good games. Sega released a lot of crappy versions of good games back then for this reason and this hurt the console greatly.

[@BubblegumCrash332]

Definitely dropping the 32x and using all those devs and resources for the Saturn along with more time would have been a game changer

[@Des_Zee]

Out of all the changes you listed, I think the backwards compatibility with the Genesis/Mega Drive would've been the most important game changer.

[@thaneros]

Bruh, I really think back compat would have done so much to the life of the Saturn. It would have been groundbreaking as it would have been the first modern console to do so.

[@protocetid]

@@thanerosIn an interview, a person who worked on the Saturn said part of Sega wanted to use a newer 68k processor to have backwards compatibility. As someone who isn’t adept at tech specs would that have been a good choice of CPU? Looks like you’re right about no home console having backwards compatibility back then, to no one’s surprise PC did. PC has always been the reigning champion for playing the games of the past.

[@maxxdahl6062]

That would have priced the system out of competition sadly. And there was no reason to include the genesis hardware other than backwards compatibility, it wouldn't have run anything in the saturn architecture other than genesis games.

[@protocetid]

@@maxxdahl6062 Could’ve ran 32X games too no? Had they included Genesis/MD parts and the SH2 CPUs it has launched with wouldn’t it have been like a beefier 32X?

[@maxxdahl6062]

@@protocetid But there was no reason for it to be there other than backwards compatibility, on a system that was already 100 bucks more expensive than the PS1, that would have shot the price up to 2 to 3 hundred more. No one would have chosen a saturn over a PS1 at that point, even 100 bucks more was a bit of a tall ask, but still doable.

[@stevecain4497]

You've pretty much nailed it with this video! The only thing I would do differentl that I can think of would be to try to shoe horn in Mega CD / Sega CD compatibility as well as Mega Drive / Genesis into the Saturn. Then, reduce the price of the Sega CD software and you have an immediate line of "wallet friendly" priced titles ready to be sold along side the new software which would help Sega & retailers clear the old Sega CD game stock, while keeping new owners buying software during the early launch window when there aren't many new games coming to market.

[@saucefonda]

As a kid, I always thought the Saturn cartridge slot was for Genesis games. I was sad when I discovered it wasn't.

[@TheSilvertrigger]

Same here, I thought if I bought a saturn I could play genesis games as well as saturn games,😢

[@rodrigogirao8344]

They should have made Virtua Fighter SVP, then maybe a pared down Daytona, and marketed that as a little taste of what the next generation was to bring. The high price would even help them be perceived as special.

[@MimosaSector]

You nailed it. Great job SLX!

[@thegardner80]

The PlayStation hardware design was so good, I’m not sure anything could’ve been really done about the Saturn. There have been lots of articles about why the Saturn was overly complicated, it I’ve never seen anything on how Sony got it right. Saturn, Jaguar, and 3DO all had somewhat similar hardware designs. Only Sony went with a simple CPU + GPU combo. I’d like to see something on how Sony came up with it.

[@avalond1193]

The design of the PlayStation came from Sega u.s. themselves when they pitched to make console together. Sony stole that design

[@ArneChristianRosenfeldt]

IBM PC had separate RAM for CPU and graphics card. Intel CPU and Z80 were able to saturate the RAM bandwidth on their own. Motorola and MOS made those slow CPUs where the computer designers could not help and use the idle time of the memory for graphics. Still, shared memory is simple. Easy to communicate over shared buffers. No locking. Amiga 500 and Xbox are great. Jaguar only lacks a good memory controller. They would have needed to cut back on horizontal resolution, palette size, full motion video and use those transistors to buffer the memory bursts. Instead the blitter got a night job of pushing data around to the other processors. Likewise on the 3do the ARM2 can saturate even 32bit RAM.

[@erwanlecainec3394]

@@avalond1193 It's true that I heard this rumour before.

[@zabustifu]

With your ideas of an upgraded Saturn, I believe there should be no more need for the RAM expansion carts, which is nice. Also nice to have: localize more Japanese Saturn titles. Lastly, maybe make it easier for developers to port PlayStation games to the Saturn, through specific public documentation.

[@nattila7713]

ram expansion was required for the good arcade ports!! but not all game needed it.... so it must have been a paid addon

[@zabustifu]

@@nattila7713 Even without any RAM expansion, the Saturn 2D arcade ports were already superior to the PlayStation ones. So maybe such carts weren't worth the extra cost after all, and the vast majority of players wouldn't have noticed or minded a few missing frames here and there.

[@dodgykebaab]

Cancelling Metal Head for another Vector Man game is worst idea since the Ouya

[@filipmartinez1162]

Yes yes YES! Agree to all of this, a 3D Vectorman would have got me to buy a Saturn full stop, also 3D Sonic. As a kid I knew that Saturn was cooked as soon as I saw an ad in GamePro for Mortal Kombat 4 only coming to PlayStation and N64 when Sega usually got all the Mortal Kombat’s (and the best, most complete versions of them). Saturn just came out with the NiGHTs 3D pad and the new 3D Mortal Kombat wasn’t coming to a Sega console at all, I’ll never forget the sinking feeling in my stomach that gave me about Sega’s future.

[@WhatsOnMyShelf]

There's a footage of a 3D Vectorman project that never was. It does not look pretty though.

[@filipmartinez1162]

@@WhatsOnMyShelf for PS2:/

[@jomarsharpe958]

SLX, you are a genius my friend. The ideas and concepts you've presented put a smile on my face as if this couldve really happened. I LOVED my Sega Saturn when I got it and I chose it over the PS1 because I was a HARDCORE SEGA FAN!!!! Just imagine my disappointment to get this system and it tanked not too long after it was released. It put a bitter taste in my mouth with Sega and I jumped ship to Playstation, but I always had love for Sega from the 80s in the arcades, to the Genesis, to the Saturn. I didn't get a Dreamcast because of the history with the Saturn so needless to say I was still bitter years later. This is one of your best videos yet and it brings back the memories of playing my Saturn on Friday nights while everyone was asleep and I'm up to the wee hours of the morning. Same with the Genesis :) Keep the amazing videos coming

[@Vormund]

Not sure how viable this would have been, but keeping the Motorola CPU could have been used for backwards compatibility? If the Saturn was BC with the MegaDrive and MegaCD it would keep people in the SEGA ecosystem. Would also be a good pickup for those who hadn’t purchased a MegaCD up to that point.

[@geneares5063]

Excellent work! I am in total concurrence with your assessment. I've said this for years in conversations with my friend. Bravo and salute, good sir!

[@griffgames9538]

Especially for the US/European market where the Genesis/MD was a massive hit with many users having large game libraries -- the Saturn cartridge slot should've supported Genesis/MD carts in full backwards compatibility. That would have *completely* changed the Saturn's appeal with western audiences.

[@PlaystationTaxation69999]

Does that mean you can play the Sega 32X games on the Saturn? Sounds possible.

[@jeffb.6642]

@@PlaystationTaxation69999 it could have been done if Sega wanted it that way I'm sure.

[@griffgames9538]

​@@PlaystationTaxation69999In that scenario, there is no 32X. The cost savings on the incredibly wasteful use of Hitachi chips in the 32X goes into equipping the Saturn with the 68000 and Z80 chips (which, by then, are dirt cheap and tiny size) to allow impeccable native backwards compatibility. You give the Saturn access to the 68000/Z80 as well and vice versa, to add more 'free' sprite/video layer options to the Saturn or late generation Mega Drive games. With this design, the Saturn cart port would now be open to upgrade options further down the line that interface directly with the Saturn mainboard -- so the Saturn could have received its own 32X-style mid-gen graphics update in a cartridge accessory.

[@maxxdahl6062]

@@griffgames9538They had the graphics upgrade ability already, they were planning one for saturn virtua fighter 3.

[@danield1262]

I just needed one game: Golden Axe The revenge of Death Adder! Boy was I dissapointed this arcade port never happened!

[@InitialDL84]

Love this video and your thoughts man, I agree with pretty much everything you mentioned. I'd even go as far as say that Sega could've done without the Sega CD as well, and just went with that 3D accelerator you mentioned, up until the release of the Saturn. Would love for you to do something similar for the Dreamcast!

[@maroon9273]

Even a scaler chip prior to the SVP Cart. Plus, publish and developed CD games for PC and Multimedia devices.😢

[@registereduser]

From a visual standpoint, even as a Nintendo fanboy back in the day, the double stack CD unit under the Genesis just looked so cool to me.

[@mendaxlenoir]

sega japan had to hand over the reigns to Tom Kalinske for the rollout of the saturn, they dug their grave when they rushed the release

[@maroon9273]

​@@toby2581which backfired and led the entire company to leave the hardware market

[@mendaxlenoir]

Tom Kalinske was (becoming) too powerful in the eyes of Sega Japan, especially being from a country where (corporate) hierarchy is deemed important they wanted to show who was in control. Not only in hindsight but in general stupid decision, Sega was competing for the top spot in NA with Nintendo where in Japan it wasn't even close...They should've let that man decide the strategy.

[@PrimeStarStudios]

You pretty much hit the nail on the head with this one, SLX. I wish that things were different back then, so Sega can continue to live on as a console manufacturer.

[@Cwiiis]

The late additions theory has been debunked, hasn't it? They had a dual CPU design even in the 32X and the dual VDP design is very similar to their arcade boards and not at all dissimilar to contemporary console design. If I was making changes to the Saturn hardware, there are only a few things I'd change that I think would significantly boost the capabilities of the Saturn without being *too* major a design change (though likely still too major given the time-scale of these things); 1- A ~64K cache for the second SH2 - I think this is a pretty reasonable amount that lets you do useful things without increasing cost or complexity massively. Ideally we'd have more RAM separated or dual-port RAM to counteract bus contention, but I think that's likely a much bigger change. 2- Give VDP1 support for UV coordinates. A lot of the difficulty in porting from contemporary 3d platforms of the time was the whole quads/tris difference... But I think the really big difference is the lack of UV coordinate support on the Saturn. When you blit a transformed quad on the Saturn, the texture data is sampled from 0,0 to 1,1 - you see this with weird looking angled surfaces in all the Slavedriver engine games, for example. Being able to specify texture sample coordinates would've been a huge boon to the Saturn and saved on effort/memory to have things look good (and would've enabled lots more neat effects). 3- Give VDP1 a proper 50% blend capability. VDP1 does already have blend, but due to the way quads are drawn (using Bresnham algorithm lines), as soon as you transform it to be non-rectilinear, you get artifacts. I theorise that this was just a bug that they didn't have the time to work out. Working this out would've reduced the instance of mesh-transparencies and circumvented the whole 'Saturn can't do transparencies' fight that continues to this day. It still wouldn't have been as capable as the PS1 in this regard, but it would've been good enough. If I was going to pick even smaller and more realistic things that I think would've significantly changed the fortune of the Saturn, I'd say 1- Mega-drive/CD/32X backwards compatibility (even without 32X would probably be fine) and 2- a decent software SDK provided a year before launch.

[@ArneChristianRosenfeldt]

2. Quads with UV means that you would rasterise a “source” quad in texture space. Sure interesting. 3. You cannot blend quads nor can you bi or trilinear interpolate. They are a dead end. How would a z buffer even work if your texels never hit the center of a pixel?

[@Cwiiis]

@@ArneChristianRosenfeldt there are algorithms to rasterise filled quads without overdraw, which is what would be needed to blend - I never said anything about interpolation.

[@ArneChristianRosenfeldt]

@@CwiiisI just mean that you lose simplicity. You did not say interpolation, but it became default in 1996 with N64 and 3dfx. Sega hardware Knowledge became worthless. 1. Where do you put that cache? N64 and Jaguar cache were already stressing the yield. Of die cache was great in 1987 for RISC server. If money is unlimited. Why on earth would you put this in a volume toy?

[@marklechman2225]

If they had made that memory cart slot a Genesis cart slot, like we all thought it was going to be back in the day, they definitely would’ve sold more systems.

[@simonrobinson1566]

Great video, and I've thought about this scenario myself many times as a diehard Sega fanboy of the era! I can't really agree with you that the hardware was really at fault. The Megadrive continued to compete graphically with the Snes late into its life, despite being built in the 1980's and being a lot weaker on paper. That was due to developers being used to the hardware and being creative. I think one of the keys to unlocking the potential of the SS was to realise the potential of the hardware, which we know performed outstandingly on some games. How was Sega releasing graphically glitchy titles like Sega Touring Car Championship so late in the Saturn's life, when they'd released Sega Rally years before? It's then that you realise that Sega's internal dev teams weren't even willing to share their knowledge with each other, let alone with 3rd party developers. Actually they seemed to forget hardware capabilities as time went on - arguably many early titles looked better and used the hardware more creatively than later titles. I would have created developer tools that practically built games for developers, making full use of VDP2 planes and visual effects like water and cloudscapes, and just handed these to all internal and external parties - here's a stadium sports title, here's a fighting game, here's a corridor shooter etc. My experience was that the Saturn's reputation depended on whatever 'key title' Sega was working on - usually a big arcade conversion. When it was Sega Rally, it was great. When it was House of the Dead, it was disastrous. Sega needed at least to ensure its big titles were spectacular.

[@SegaLordX]

The Genesis was infinitely easier to program than Saturn. Adjusting Saturn's internals isn't about weakness, but rather accessibility to 3rd parties.

[@simonrobinson1566]

@@SegaLordX Yes, very true. I just think with waaaay more support from Sega, and of course with more popularity of the machine, developers would habe adujusted.

[@simonrobinson1566]

To add to this point, if I were Sega, I'd have banned all internal development teams from using the crappy dithered transparencies. Find a better way guys. Even the top titles by God tier developers had these crappy dithers as shadows etc. I know the Saturn's half transparency capabilities were all conditional, and didn't perform in certain circumstances, but come on. I'd also have handed bonuses to the teams sharing the most graphical tips with their colleagues in other teams.

[@erwanlecainec3394]

@@simonrobinson1566 Or the reverse ! Make a game with a clever use of these dithered transparencies given they have even been promoted at some point in Saturn's lifetime by Sega Japan. After all, it was one of the Saturn's features. Instead of making a necessary weakness of them, why not convert them into a strong asset ? On Mega Drive and Mega-CD, there was a heavy use of this process in some titles. For Mega-CD, dithering effects were especially visible on FMV games. But if a game could make a clever use of these dithering effects, maybe something good could be done out of it. But nobody really tried, just pointing this as a con of the console. How sad really...

[@simonrobinson1566]

@@erwanlecainec3394 A very interesting idea, but with the exception of the high res mode (which made the mesh small enough to look genuinely half transparent) the dithering was plain ugly, because it wasn't a graduated dither, it was just a plain 50/50 chequer-board effect that was right in your face. Hey, perhaps there was more that could have been squeezed out of the feature that we don't know, but I am not sure about that.

[@gpturismo]

One of the biggest things they could of done with the hardware was something Sega of America wanted, backwards compatibility. They wanted to be able to put genesis carts in the in cartiodge slot. Even if they did like the Master System and have an inexpensive addon to do it, (and have a combo pack with it included) I think the they would of faired a lot better in the US.

[@tursilion]

Your Sega CD strategy sounds very much like the NeoGeo CD - an exciting console that failed to live up to expectations. That said, I would have probably bought most of those games. ;) The Saturn rush to market really felt like the biggest misstep on the Saturn. I was at the E3 press release where they made the surprise announcement, but having seen the current state of software on the floor next to Sony's, it was easy to see that the early market date wasn't going to make any difference, and might even hurt. Your plan to redesign parts of the hardware might be a bit ambitious - especially redesigning silicon in just a year, but the time would have been well spent. First party software development would need to not only focus on the titles you suggest, but on the development kit. By the time the first round of software is done, a solid development kit for third parties should exist. One of Sony's strongest opening shots was an outstanding and well documented development system that won over third parties. Really liked this vid. I was actually not team Saturn because the missteps and the software library did not grab me. But the Genesis and the Dreamcast are my two favorite systems by far. ;)

[@darkfalzx]

Elimination of 32x from the lineup would've fixed a ton of issues all on its own. No market confusion, no split in developer resources, no damage to Sega brand associated with releasing an utterly pointless add-on that was dead before it even hit the store shelves. I'd also eliminate Nomad and CDX lines, as those did nothing but dilute the market even further, though I am myself partial to a budget GameGear refresh: ) SVP chip was a cool idea, but it was too little and too late, and ultimately just another R&D money sink that had no chance of paying off without significant resource re-allocation from other areas. Also, as we've seen with recent homebrew projects, Genesis/MD was more than capable of going toe-to-toe even with SNES' 3D capabilities, but leaning into SegaCD's billboard scaling ability could've propelled games of that generation within spitting distance of true 5th gen. Another huge issue was the massive ego clash between SOA and SOJ - a more competent leadership could've solved that.

[@arenschultz]

I love these ideas! I wish SOJ and SOA could have had the hindsight. Seeing the direction that Nintendo went I’m imagining 2 different markets growing with Xbox and Sony battling it out for the most powerful and Sega and Nintendo focusing on great gaming experiences

[@RarefoilB]

This is one of my favorite videos of yours, mainly because it's just fun to hope into an alternative universe where Sega could have actually done the Saturn right. I do think often about what a more successful Saturn would have meant for the Dreamcast and the rest of the industry. Yeah, I do agree that a successful Saturn doesn't automatically mean a Dreamcast that doesn't die. But, if the Saturn did make it to around 20 million units... what would that mean for the PlayStation, exactly? Would that 102 million units sold be actually lower, because there were those that said "my Saturn is good enough"? Would PlayStation exclusives like Metal Gear Solid and Silent Hill actually come to Saturn, due to a healthier market that would actually buy the game in enough numbers to justify it? Okay, let's be realistic: the PlayStation would have still sold pretty damn well, and exclusives like Crash, Spyro, and FF7 were pretty locked in. But a drop in 5 or 7 million units feels at least somewhat possible. And what about the N64? I'll admit, the N64 was so different in markets and software from Sega's or Sony's offerings that it's hard to see it being affected. Still, the N64 wasn't in a complete vacuum, and it's hard for me to picture *zero* effect whatsoever. So, probably in the same ballpark of sales, or slightly lower. Maybe even higher because the butterfly kept flapping its wings. But now with a successful Saturn heading into 1998... okay, well the date would have to be moved up for the sixth gen successor, Saturn is still doing fine in all regions. But so is the PlayStation and the N64, at least on the same level as Sega. Now, this reality continues to be the case into 1999, but now everyone's at the very least announcing their sixth generation console. This could be the time to strike with the Dreamcast, if Sega wanted to get ahead of everyone else, but in this universe, having actual consumer trust and steady partnerships with third parties. Or... maybe, just maybe... with both companies being clearly part of a different time in video games, with both being dedicated video game makers, and both clearly struggling to compete against Sony's humongous conglomerate resources... Sega and Nintendo team up to make one Sega/Nintendo console with all of their games. Just like the proposed Sega/Sony console all those years ago. Now okay, this is extremely pie-in-the-sky thinking. Who knows how well that would have gone, what with the two companies having pretty different cultures and design philosophies, or even if this console would be more like the Dreamcast or the GameCube or a mash-up of both. But it would be an interesting universe to be in. And in either timeline... would Microsoft even be trying for an Xbox? Their main motivation for making it was Sony, which would probably still be the case no matter what, but they would be walking into a crowded market. Is there room for a forth guy? And if there isn't, do you have what it takes to crush the forth guy, whoever that is? Well, you're Microsoft so... maybe. And in the Sega/Nintendo console universe, would Xbox be able to weather being the third place option, selling that 24 million as compared to 31 million? (combining the Dreamcast and Gamecube sales and rounding up) Or would it sell even less? Would Microsoft even want to go forward with the 360 later on? Alright, these are some pretty wild theories at this point. While history would have been different to some extent, it is also very easy to see Sega's story ending pretty similarly too. I just wanted to throw my thoughts out there and offer more possibilities. Love the content, Sega Lord X! 👍

[@EEEZYWEEEZY]

Awesome video!!! Now do the Dreamcast.

[@ShadowEl]

Let's save the Dreamcast! *goes back in time and cancels the PlayStation 2*

[@Monacomaverick]

Complicated hardware or not, Sega really needed more 3rd party cross-platform games in 1997, like Tomb Raider 2, Formula 1, NFS 2, Road Rash 3D, and Wipeout XL in the US. It also should have had arcade perfect ports of Return of Death Adder and Outrunners. Many Japanese exclusives could have come to the US since they were already in English. The US Saturn library is laughable when compared to its home of origin. It needed more quality software.

[@hammerheadms]

You're hired. Now get in the Delorean and tell Tom Kalinske he's been replaced.

[@DeviantDragonFurry]

Great video. I like your ideas. Specifically the one with releases of older Mega Drive titles on the Mega CD. Imagen a Sonic collection, 1, 2, 3 and S&k with CD audio. All the CD games should had that. Something to get fans to buy them again. Imagen Sonic 3 with full MJ produced soundtrack ❤

[@steelcurtain187]

These are some great ideas for sure 😎

[@Bladillac]

Excellent strategy. I would have done almost the same thing. I would concentrate more on updating all Genesis hits to 32-bit.