Let’s settle the longbow vs recurve debate!

[@dashrendar5320]

Not that I mind this video is still getting a lot of traction for some reason it was not a great day. If you wanna see the bow ACTUALLY getting used on a better day, here you are kzbin.info/www/bejne/bYTSqGqAf7iJY6ssi=lt9B8b60xuOU6PDZ

[@BRH0587]

Never seen your Vids before. This is the first one I've seen. It was absolutely epic. I only have one request. For the love of all that is Holy, can you please keep your shirt on!! My wife could happen to pass by and look at the screen brother and I am not competing at that level. That is all 😂😂

[@UdoWerder]

Du solltest daran denken dass du , unter deinen starken Armen Gelenke hast , die diese Belastung nur für eine sehr eng begrenzte Zeit verkraften und , dann ganz unerwartet und irreparabel versagen . Nur ein gut gemeinter Rat , treib es so nicht auf die Spitze , lass dir genügen was du erreicht hast und , mach mit einem moderaten Zuggewicht weiter , sonst wirst du irgendwann nur noch Zuschauer sein . 😢

[@tan-man0079]

You’re not an idiot. 4k means your trying to give us better quality. Thank you for that.

[@dashrendar5320]

Thanks my friend. Did not realize how much data it used up 😂

[@CoffeeFiend1]

Even if it has to be 2 or more 4k videos stitched together from potentially even different days with different clothes on or whatever it doesn't even really matter, acknowledge it to be honest but beyond that it's still content, video is about showing/testing something if it does that but the scene transitions aren't hollywood tier perfect? Meh who cares, the info is the main draw.

[@masonpugh3637]

I agree take skill I'm try to go frm compound bow to guess Egypt bow my friend gave me I only pull half back because use my fist for rest plus the string burn you up thanks for video an informative

[@lielkattus4487]

Hi, I'd like to provide a more in depth explanation as for *why* reflex/recurves outperform long/flatbows. Reflex/recurves rise quicker in weight and then slow down, meaning there's a lot more energy stored at the early/mid draw despite having the same draw weight at full draw. How long the siyahs (tips) are, and how aggressively recurved they are is a good indicator of how much more energy will be stored. But do know this is far from the only factor! Just a very easy & quick to explain one. One of the main reasons you don't see any long/flatbows at high draw weights with these shapes is because the designs undertake *far* more stress. A bow of solid wood would simply break if you tried to bend it as much (unless it's a very low draw weight). Because the tips don't bend, the stress is condensed into a smaller section of the limb. The limbs are also just being bent much further in general, the reflex/recurve of the tips also allows the bow to be drawn further. Well made horn bows actually take this stress nightmare even further! Unstrung, the limbs are pointing the opposite direction like the letter "C". Because their starting position is more forward, they're being bent further therefore resist more which gets you a higher draw weight without having to add mass to the limbs, meaning a faster bow. The bow used in this video (MR Bows Tiron from the looks of it?) I would say is actually a little more on the passive side of these kinds of bows. It's also a fiberglass-wood laminate which can't handle stress as well as horn bows, so the design is a little more unambitious. If you'd like to try out the other end, you can look for a Manchu bow. Manchu are not fast, but they store the most energy out of any widely used design. You can get an Alibow yarha 2 at military weights for really cheap, though do know it will need extra heavy arrows (probably like 17-20GPP)since it's solid fiberglass and therefore quite sluggish. To conclude, horn bows are in nearly every objective sense better performing. There is however one very very important aspect that longbows historically exceled in which is often forgotten in these discussions. Longbows are more expensive nowadays, but historically they were extremely affordable compared to horn bows. Why construct 1 exceptional bow when you could arm 10 people with *good-enough* bows for the same price?

[@dashrendar5320]

Thank you for that detailed and through breakdown my friend. Well done and very thought outs, I appreciate you taking the time to write it all out for everyone

[@dashrendar5320]

I will check out alibow as well

[@colbunkmust]

There is also a geographical consideration to the process. Self-bows(Longbows) require large pieces of seasoned timber which isn't always cheap or a available in the areas that traditionally used recurves. Recurve composite bows are limited in their strength by the quality of the glue lamination. This means in environments that tend to be more humid and wet, natural glues tend to be more susceptible to failure, while in arid areas, where recurves are most commonly found, they are considerable more resilient. In England where rain is common, and large European hardwood and yew forests were more commonplace, self-bows are naturally a better option. In Mongolia, where bow wood is limited to Siberian birch but animal horn, tendon, and animal-based glues are available it makes economic sense why people in different parts of the planet chose different bow designs. Obviously there is also a degree of cultural diffusion that also leads to these weapons spreading to different areas, too.

[@vitrebrov]

I thought that longbows also have longer and heavier arrow.

[@cool06alt]

@@vitrebrov In some composite bows, they are longbows in anything but name. Same arrow weight if not heavier. 120cm-150cm tall. It would be more productive that bows should be categorized based on it's shape first, then the length. For example in straight limb category, you got Viking hunting bow for "Short limb" and English Longbow for "long limb". In Recurve category you got Turkish bow for "short limb" and Manchu bow for "long limb".

[@mattdefreitas525]

The bows look hard as fuck to draw, everyone has there off days haha, good on you for posting anyway, I enjoyed it. Feels good to have a real person on KZbin, you're the man

[@dashrendar5320]

Yeah dude they felt extra heavy that day 😂 somedays you just don’t have it. And thanks for that

[@cartercustoms4600]

For sure. Best I can draw is 70lb repeatedly. 165lb is hulk level.

[@NoRockinMansLand]

​@@cartercustoms4600 how to do you build the strength to pull more?

[@cartercustoms4600]

@@NoRockinMansLand ether from training with a bow you already have or doing row exercises. Ether bent over rows with weights or cable rows.

[@MarcRitzMD]

Those little mistakes and the humility make you look like a real great guy. Appreciated that a lot actually

[@dashrendar5320]

Thanks man! We all mess up and fail every now and then

[@ignaciolk]

With the recurve, the first few inches feel heavier because you overcome the angle of the siyah, then it acts as a lever. very good videos!

[@dashrendar5320]

Yeah that makes perfect sense. Thank you, glad you enjoyed the video

[@gyulabueki9412]

The Hungarian József Mónus broke all records with his traditional laminated (wood, horn, string) recurve bow. He have now shot over 1 km with 70 lbs bow. I saw myself hitting a target 453 m away in a strong crosswind. (1/6 shot. 2 were about 30 cm from it.😮

[@endless3cho]

1km? Whaaaaaaat???

[@gyulabueki9412]

@@endless3cho Google / Wikipedia show you all this. Other f.e.over Lajos Kassai, his world records of horseback archery...😉

[@2bingtim]

@@endless3cho 1km is 1 kilometer, or 1,000m. 1km=0.6375 miles, or 1,100 yards, or 3,300 feet. That is a hell of a long range for any bow, probably achieved with very specialised flight arrows etc. @gyulabueki9412's English is light years better than my Hungarian.

[@Shildran]

If you check the official record site: he did use compound bows too, and that was his farest (that was 1007 m). Also in wikipedia is written that he did it with 73# compound bow. It's like that Kassai is famous from his horsebows, but everyone forgets that he was making compound bows too. Also in 2024 Monus's record was broken by Smith Creek (by 1031 m). But the actual farest record kept by an american archer Harry Drake in 1971 by 1854 m with a crossbow. We just hear a lot of about Mónus, because he is hungarian. But among archers he is very doubtful person. He's even often called to be a fraud.

[@gyulabueki9412]

@@Shildran yesss but crossbow?, Cannot be compared with traditional laminated bows, nor with compound bows. Mónus makes its bows only from wood, sinew and horn. bm

[@jasoncrowell8863]

It's really good for beginners to see the REALLY good people in the field having off-days, that way when they have an off-day they don't think "Dash Rendar never has days like this"

[@ClintSaenz]

Always great content. I appreciate you posting all your videos!! They are both fun and informative, Keep up the great work!! 👍

[@mateusz7079]

I love how humble you are, and that you even try answering every comment on your videos. Heart lighter than a feather ;)

[@dashrendar5320]

Happily my friend, I appreciate your kind words as well so thank you

[@Norfolkyakker]

It shows strength of character. Macho show off guys are insecure.....always.

[@chuckles123]

Thank you for letting me know the speed test was lost and I didn't need to waste my lunch break trying to find it. Thumbs up Dash!

[@dashrendar5320]

Ha most welcome. Will do again sometime soon. When the rain passes

[@jonathana1572]

Nice! I was about to hit the gym. I could use some more inspiration! BTW Dash, love your stuff. I been doing archery since August 2023 last year. Using a 60lb longbow usually at 20 yards. But I definitely want to get higher draw weights. 🎉

[@dashrendar5320]

Right on my dude! Get after it! And thank you, glad you enjoy the stuff

[@gretafrank1990]

Thanks for sharing despite having an off day! Always appreciate this FUN content. Makes me want to get out my bow. ❤

[@dashrendar5320]

Happily, glad you enjoyed the fun 😁

[@Roland3ld]

Here is the usual full support for channel growth as I watch your back catalogue.

[@dashrendar5320]

As always thank you kindly my friend

[@czort7979]

Hi, i did simillar experiment, but i used much, much lighter bows)), 60# longbow vs 60# assyrian. Assyrian was better in every way. My back hurts badly every time i watch someone shoots such a heavy bows) Great video, great strenght, good sense of humor!

[@JR-us2jf]

Hey your no idiot, I just found the channel and I’ve been loving all the content! I enjoyed this video a lot, your resilience you share the video speaks volumes. A fan of the channel and excited to see what you come out with next 🤝

[@GUNNER67akaKelt]

I prefer my recurves. No particular reason, other than they look cooler, maybe? I just like the way they look. Also, I DO like the fact they are shorter and easier to wield. I prefer traditional bows over compound bows.

[@dashrendar5320]

They are amazing! I like the look of the longbow (probably my love of fantasy) but the recurve is the superior bow in technology

[@jasommato9110]

well there is nothing more beautifull than curves of crimean tatar ;)

[@NoRockinMansLand]

Compound bows seem to easy to use, kinda taked the fun out of it

[@stephenlitten1789]

@@NoRockinMansLand Are you talking about the fancy, fully equipped competition bows with stabilisers, clickers, sights and whatever, or what?

[@ScrambledBread]

Glad you uploaded! So much humility and grounded content, great video!

[@dashrendar5320]

Hey thanks so much. So glad you enjoyed it! Gotta have those bad days every now and then 😂

[@gfreeman9843]

Interesting observation you made on the energy stored in the early part of the recurve bows draw... sometimes for fun I loose arrows at about 20 inch draw, trying to be fast like some native American combat archery I've seen online. 45# and 50# bear recurves and they seem to fly fast. All the best.😊​@@dashrendar5320

[@TheIconsofsin]

we all have our off days my dude but being confident enough to post a video when you're not at your best proves that you're a real person and thats why we keep coming back, cos we can relate plus you're awesome and have helped me pick up some good archery tips ! i mainly shoot recurve bows so this was nice to see, stay humble and keep being you

[@dashrendar5320]

Thank you most kindly my friend! The road to progress is littered with bad days, but always moving forward

[@TheIconsofsin]

@dashrendar5320 100% agree dude, I was having an off day today but after watching this video I'm going to go train for a bit

[@dashrendar5320]

Let’s gooooo 💪🏹

[@tobyward7486]

Hey Dash! One of my favourite videos to date for me, as an archer who is only on a 60lb longbow, it was fascinating to see the difference in performance of the bows 😮 Dont stress about small mistakes in form/video making, we all have those days 😅 Im personally more partial to the English longbow because of my heritage on my Mothers side, and ive always loved the look of the longbow. Anyway great video as usual 👌

[@dashrendar5320]

Hey thanks so Much my friend! It was super super fun to do. I was very disappointed with my performance. Just felt weak that day, but i was shocked to see the recurve punch through so deep! I am partial to the longbow as well. Just had such a presence in fantasy as well

[@tobyward7486]

@dashrendar5320 Your most welcome 😊 For the record, I actually loved that you posted this video. The fact that you knew you weren't shooting at your best and still posted it shows that despite all the training and development, you are human, and everyone has off days. It also shows that you are humble and honest witch I truly appreciate as a viewer 🙏🤝💪

[@kylansidener6045]

I love watching your videos man. Keep up the good work.

[@dashrendar5320]

Thanks my friend! So glad you enjoy them!

[@Ayame_Iris2024]

thumb draw naturally have longer draw length than three finger (about +1inch) and typpically manchu bow have 35-37inches draw length with far more straight forearm posture.

[@jamesedmison2768]

It was still a great video and the humility you show is inspiring

[@thefatefulforce8887]

My kind of test! That is insane Dash. I knew they were faster but didn’t expect that much more effective haha. MR bows have a reputation to be very fast and your bow is no different to all the other tests I have seen. So really good to get more data to confirm it. I am so pumped now to get my MR Tiron (107@28) to test it as well! Shame you lost some footage but great video nonetheless. Thank you for going ahead and posting it❤

[@dashrendar5320]

Hey thanks man! I truly appreciate that. I was genuinely shocked as well. And the trajectory of it is just like a laser! Excited for you to get it as well; can’t wait to see your results

[@hjorturerlend]

I mean, if you send the same arrow at a greater velocity... IIRC it's about 50% more energy on target per 15% of increase in velocity.

[@alexanderflack566]

@@hjorturerlend 32.25% increase in kinetic energy for a 15% velocity increase (1.15 x 1.15). Realize, though, that shooting lighter arrows will give you faster arrow speed, but _less_ kinetic energy than shooting heavier arrows (because the increase in speed doesn't overcome the decrease in mass; basically, more arrow mass increases efficiency).

[@hjorturerlend]

@@alexanderflack566 Good, I'm obviously rusty on my math. Still, point is that composite recurve bows are more efficient for their draw weight and size.

[@alexanderflack566]

@@hjorturerlend This one is, but not all of them are. Different types of asiatic bow vary widely in performance.

[@WildlifeDriven23]

Great video, really appreciate what your doing, you have really motivated me to get stronger and more athletic. I just subscribed and have really enjoyed your videos , especially the bow videos.

[@dashrendar5320]

Hey man thanks so much! So happy I could motivate in any way, glad you enjoy the videos and keep pushing my friend 💪🏹

[@WildlifeDriven23]

Yes, definitely will keep pushing I currently have a 50lbs recurve hunting bow but hoping I can someday shoot much stronger bows something like yours.

[@silentabove119]

I consider myself to be a relatively "strong" older man, but i find that as i get even older that my strength fluctuates quite a bit more, unfortunately. I've never drawn a bow anywhere near what you are pulling, but for you to be having an off day and saying so actually inspires me. So, thank you very much, good sir!

[@dashrendar5320]

You are most welcome my friend! We all have days when we feel like a million bucks and days when it just does not click. Biggest thing is just keep pushing for sure 💪🏹

[@Dericmann]

I just started shooting my tiron 143@28 176@32 I love it Im working on getting to 28 right now but it is an amazing bow. Mr bows are so sweet. I also built a stringer for it that makes it a lot easier to string. Love all you do man!

[@dashrendar5320]

Dude i have to have my wife help me string it 😂😂 it’s so brutal! Good luck on the journey, keep me posted how you progress

[@Dericmann]

@@dashrendar5320 I will. After about two weeks I went from 20 inch pull to about 24 to 26 when Im fresh. Ask Mr bows about the stringer he use. I built mine off his design he may even have the photo of mine. It's just 4x4 cedar and some longboard wheels as leverage points.

[@dashrendar5320]

Awesome! I will check that out

[@Dericmann]

@@dashrendar5320 cool I still need a second hand but it's a lot less strain to string it

[@ehisey]

Lookup waist stringers. Our Aisatic heavy bow group uses them exclusively with MR bows. They give you more control and stability to string heavy highly recurved bows.

[@hyperfocused3465]

I'm a recurve guy historically (0 longbow experience), so appreciate seeing your comparison! Great work! Also, always respect honesty and humility - stand up move there Dash!

[@dashrendar5320]

Thanks my dude! Always forward 💪🏹

[@robertbaker974]

Good stuff! Like that you posted this-the two types of bow def have a different feel-good to see you’re not afraid to experiment-with all that comes with that..

[@cool06alt]

Yeah, I can potentially see that this kind of experiment of bows comparison can grow into a video series.

[@fasco69]

Glad you put the video out there. Keep up the great work warrior.

[@dashrendar5320]

Thanks man, much appreciated

[@garrettschienschang7898]

Great video man. Keep up the good work and don’t be too hard for failing a shooter draw when shooting such heavy weight

[@dashrendar5320]

Thanks for that my friend! Tomorrow is a new day! Just keep improving and getting stronger 💪🏹 always forward

[@jessebell1930]

Love your humility mate and it's awesome to see your subs going up😊 In my opinion you are still criminally short of subs. Keep it up mate👊

[@snowdrop9810]

I always wonder, how powerful would a bow built with modern materials such as fiberglass compare to wood ones? And how much better the Compound bow design is.

[@mikeorick6898]

Look at the flight archery distance records. When things are as equal as they can be the wood longbow is on the bottom at 450 yds, the modern American longbow at 550 yds, the recurve hornbow at 620 yds, the modern field bow at 800 yds, the modern compound at 1,320 yds. Oddly enough, the modern recurve flight bow a tad farther at 1,336 yds. Modern target recurves at 35 lbs are shooting farther (497 yds) then the heaviest draw weight English longbow. Crossbows leave them all in the dust at over 2,000 yds.

[@alexanderflack566]

@@mikeorick6898 To be fair, there's no way a Hungarian bow or Manchu bow is shooting 600 yards, and the distance records for Ottoman flight bows in the 1500s were around 1000 yards. Horn/wood/sinew composites do not all perform in a similar way. Incidentally, I'm highly skeptical that a normal target recurve is reaching 500 yards. Do you have a source for that?

[@pyramid_scheme_termination3655]

@@mikeorick6898 bullshit rifle numbers

[@mikeorick6898]

@@pyramid_scheme_termination3655 Verified official records.

[@kristiankongen7117]

i dont know why, but i really enjoy these videos for some reason! Good job !

[@dashrendar5320]

Glad you enjoy them 😁

[@RelentlessHomesteading]

That was quite cool. It was still an amazing video. Well done - and like the seeing the band device you used for training the pull. I'm older at 67 and thought about getting into the sport and aid my end time preps too. Seems the straight bow would be easier to work up to since the main force is at the end of the draw. Nice videography too. Thanks - I gleaned some things from the video.

[@charlesbangs9663]

Hey man you are willing to keep going and admit when you make a mistake, it shows real manliness. It is why I like your channel so much. Keep up the great work.

[@dashrendar5320]

Thank you my friend truly. Will do

[@uncletiggermclaren7592]

Very interesting, and honest. And the data was good. Don't be hard on yourself, we are all just people getting by. And harder times are on the way, you will look back and think "That was what Full employment, in Peacetime, without a dictator was like . . . I didn't appreciate it while I had it".

[@dashrendar5320]

Thank you for the kind words my friend, it was a rough day but sharing bad days is important as well as the good ones

[@gclutchey]

You should try an Eastern style composite bow, at a ‘warbow’ weight, for comparison. They have ‘siyahs’, stiff ears that extend from the end of the limb, which give leverage at the end of the draw, resulting in that ‘letting off’ effect that you mentioned. They would also be contemperaneous with the longbow…sort of ‘East’ vs ‘West’.

[@dashrendar5320]

If I had all the money in the world I would love to get a bow from every style and every culture. One day….

[@ehisey]

Th MR Tiron is an eastern style recurve, specifically Serbian. It is what is classed as a "short ear", I suspect you are thinking of the "long ear" like the daoshao, Qing, and Conquest bows. Not the only long ears, but probably the most recognizable

[@jpdj2715]

The "Eastern" style bow already is used in Homer's Iliad when Odysseus tricks the suitors into a bow shooting match that ultimately leads to him killing all of them. They cannot even string the bow. A bard telling this story to a nobleman owning such a bow must have been the period's version of sitcom. The Iliad plays before 1,000 BCE. The composite has another aspect, with our without the stiff ears in that is has a layer of strong animal horn glued to one side of the central layer of wood, that is hard to compress and wants to get back into its decompressed state. On the other side a layer of sinew is glued that is like very strong rubber band and when you pull the bow string gets extended but wants to return to its shorter length. This gives the bow more speed in returning to its original form. When I first read up on the composite (Scythian? Greek?) bow, my thoughts went back to the Iliad. The bow was retrieved from the treasure vault in Odysseus's palace. Odysseus, after a very long absence for war and an odyssee to get back home, was incognito and had to fight for his wife, estate, title. The "important" suitors tried to string the bow. This failed. Then tried to warm it by a fire. They had heard about how to use one, but never owned one. The sinew can absorb moisture and this may distort the bow and reduce its strength. Unstrung, the Greek bow was curved with the tips to hold the string forward, almost touching the handle. Naive people would not understand how this works. After, for centuries, Ottoman terrorists dominated the Middle East and used the bow in their armies, people started to call the bow "Turkish bow". A few years after, I went on a visit to Istanbul. And visited a museum displaying all sorts of Ottoman army items. I expected Turkish bows on display and said to my companion that I expected unstrung Turkish bows in there to be displayed the wrong way around: handle to the point of the arrow and ears back. And, yes, that was exactly how they were displayed. At the time. With these bows, Turkish archers held matches, e.g. who could shoot the farthest. They had special light arrows for this and really very long distances have been recorded.

[@martinolivera3580]

We are here man. Keep going. Btw the Skyrim background was a really good idea 😊

[@dashrendar5320]

Haha thanks my friend! Can’t go wrong with Skyrim

[@addersbowman]

Wow, thanks for posting this, I only just found it and yea I get it 100%, some days it just isn't there. It does make you appreciate the times it is and reminds us all, never to take archery for granted. Train, train, train. Best wishes.

[@musicaremcasa7628]

great video! not everyday is perfect. but nice content. Straight to the point and concise and humble

[@dashrendar5320]

Thank you my friend! Sometimes the bad days are the ones you remember best and they motivate you to work harder for sure. Glad you enjoyed the video

[@makinganoise6028]

Good video, I am a Scottish Archer who lives in England, I've owned high poundage longbows many years ago,, I bought a recurve to teach my Son archery and taught myself thumb draw, buying a bare bow as my Son is a lefty, so nothing in your video surprised me, there is so much false history and myths around Longbows, basically, back in the day, they were cheap and they had lots of big lads shooting them, my experience from shooting both and given a choice, is recurve any day, its superior, pound for pound and also accuracy and range, especially if laminated, historical artwork, shows recurve were common in Britain in addition to self bows, please get proper arrows for the recurve, it really shows at longer ranges, maybe get a handmade bow made for you using traditional materials, I went to Hungary last summer and shot some there, stuck a video on my channel, for the memory, I'm more into music tbh. Also suggest experimenting with lower poundages and lighter arrows, using thumb draw, its easy to see why a Turkish Archer could be devastating against unarmoured opponents, once you get the hang of the technique, I now prefer.

[@dashrendar5320]

Indeed. It was surprising to me how different it acted as a whole. Very unique and unforgiving haha. But I see how efficient. Strong and amazing they are, more training is needed 😂 but I will get there

[@Beefonweck]

Recurves in Western European art are hunting bows about 90% of the time. Self bows are far more durable and stand up to wet conditions much better as well.

[@grimm2085]

Great video, great channel, thank you very much for putting this together and sharing your knowledge, this was very cool, I will chalk this up to a real live test, this is a great test, do not put yourself down at all, these are excellent results, specifically because as you put it not at the top of your game, you should be proud of yourself, because you are juggling everything else you mentioned, again great video excellent test results, real warfare/ combat you will be sleep deprived, malnourished, your muscles will be aching and sore, as an old instructor said to me it's three am and pissing down outside, do you still want to be a commando!? You haven't eaten in days, do you still want to ba commando!? You just rucked 25 miles, do you still want to be a commando!? God Bless

[@NDFlyFisher]

Great video! Every joint in my body hurt watching you pull those bows. 😂 Appreciate the excellent content AND your down to earth, humble approach. Not sure how I got this video but glad I did. I’m now subscribed.

[@mateusz7079]

From slings to recurve, maybe we will see crossbows too sooner or later hahaha Dash doing progress on a research tree

[@dashrendar5320]

Haha that would be amazing….one I will get a 1200lb crossbow 😂😂

[@KokoroBeach]

Love your content man! I started archery at 10 but it was on and off. Your content inspired me to go out to Japan to shoot the Yumi, England to shoot the longbow, and Mongolia for the recurve. Adventure + purpose! Thanks, chad!

[@marcoengelbracht4141]

Simply Wow! Love your content and I enjoy the high definition footage! We are all learning, so do you. Have bigger storage next time 😉

[@dashrendar5320]

Thank you so much. Yeah this video was a learning experience in many many ways haha

[@ynk_8]

Nice! the most expected video! Really great!

[@dashrendar5320]

Thank you most kindly my friend

[@jimcrants7517]

I'm glad you added the comments at the end, because this is the first full-length video of yours that I've seen, and I was beginning to wonder.

[@adders45]

The longbow is easier to build to a heavier weight, recurve bows seem to be about 10-15% more effective per poundage so a 120llb draw could be as powerful as a 150llb longbow, but in the time to make the recurve about five longbows could be built. Bang for the buck they are fairly similar in the long run. As for on days and off days, I shoot between 60-80 llb bows and somedays it's a breeze and I'm thinking, right let's make a 90llber then a few days later im struggling with 70llbs. There is no hard and fast rule and anyone who says ' I shoot 100llbs' yet they do not train ( I have to train, away from shooting) are basically fecking liars. Great video keep the human element going cheers - addersbowman

[@dashrendar5320]

Most certainly. I have seen the distance and speed test by other people, so I was pretty sure I knew what was going to happen, but I was very surprised how much better it actually did against the steel shield. That was very cool for me personally to see. also, thank you it’s just one of those things when you’re pushing yourself hard some days your body doesn’t want to do it with you 😂 thank you again for the kind words

[@adders45]

@@dashrendar5320 yes I have to admit the way the recurve destroyed the metal shield was more than impressive. 🏹🎯

[@ehisey]

You are off on production rates by a significant amount. A fast poorly made composite takes about 6 months to make. A decent longbow can be made in a weekend, if not faster. A good quality composite was typically looking at 3 years, the best could take 5. Even going with the best backed longbows you would be hard pressed to take much more than a month for per bow.

[@adders45]

@@ehisey I was being conservative, but yes it does take a very long time to build a composite bow, also a longbow will still shoot in the wet, whereas a composite is likely to fall apart.

[@thevetolinist8462]

Hey Dash! I'm an asiatic bow archer and occasionally shoot the yumi in kyudo, but your videos really got me interested in the longbow! Any tips on where to begin? Thanks!

[@dashrendar5320]

Well for good longbows in would check out “fairbow” to start. Let me know what other questions you may have

[@thevetolinist8462]

@@dashrendar5320 I just looked at some products from fairbow, as for the draw weight and length, do you recommend making it the same as my usual bow? I'm guessing that it would be harder for me to draw since I always use thumbdraw

[@samuelshook5028]

I Absolutely LOVE your content brother!

[@dashrendar5320]

Thank you my friend! Glad you do

[@jaguarholly7156]

Its nice to see im not the only one who has bad days with the heavy bows lol. Maybe you can remake the recurve vs longbow another time, but this video was great in its own way. And kinda the positive boost i could use rn. Just broke a bow i was building in the final stages of tillering😅

[@dashrendar5320]

Nice! Yeah some days just suck haha. But you gotta have them sometimes. Sorry about the bow breaking, on to the next

[@goingfilipino]

I'm an Asiatic bow archer, but your channel has really made me want to cross train in English longbow 🏹🤙🏿🤘🏿

[@dashrendar5320]

The are both fantastic. But man. Aiming feels so different

[@goingfilipino]

@dashrendar5320 I bet. When I shoot my Asiatic, I thumb draw, shoot off my thumb, cant my bow, and use khatra to solve the riser affecting the arrows path. I've tried shooting standard Western style off of it, and I am hot garbage with my accuracy 🤣 I need to start doing more research to figure out what the shooting blueprint is for historical English longbows. I'd love to see a long form in-depth tutorial of your steps from draw to arrow impact 🏹🤙🏿🤘🏿

[@Angatyr34]

This all makes sense. Look up power curves - the Longbow produces a kind of almost 'parabolic' curve - the highest force at the back of the draw. But it is a long power stroke, so also accelerates the arrow over a longer distance. A recurve has a fuller curve and shallows out at the back - which exactly matches your experience of the force. Poundage measures the peak force required to pull the bow. Not the total force that is needed over the whole draw. That's what the power curve measures. More area under the curve - more energy you have to put in, but the more in the arrow. So the fuller curve of the recurve means more energy in the arrow - why it shoots faster, with more power. But you have to put that higher amount of energy in first. Most people comparing do not compare the same draw length - so well done that is a huge factor! This is why compound bows are much more powerful for a given draw weight - the cams help to create a very full power curve, and a steep let-off (which is why you can hold them for longer). Me and a mate built a prototype of a 'sling-bow' that has a completely square power curve. Constant 40 pound draw for 26" - worked great - so now we are trying to refine the design.

[@bolieve603]

If you graph force (draw weight) against draw length the area under the curve is stored energy. That means that the closer to a flat line the draw weight is the more energy the bow can store. Longbows have a curve that gets progressively steeper, so the last few inches of draw provide the vast majority of energy storage, recurve is more like a fairly steep straight line so the last half of the draw does store more energy than the first half, but not as extreme as a longbow. A compound is nearly like a flat line with a dip at the end so they can store an immense amount of energy even at low draw weights.

[@ethanharter1878]

Finally! A contest between longbow and recurve warbows!

[@brucenovotny5924]

Great job, man! Really awesome! Thanks for making it for all of us 👍🏻🙏🏻🙇🏻‍♂️

[@dashrendar5320]

Most welcome my friend, and thank you

[@mrredeef]

I have a bow like the recurved one in this video. I think I understand now what you mean about recurves having that harder initial pull. That has kept me really held up at 70lbs, pretty impressive that you can draw 135 like that

[@mrredeef]

You say the arrows aren't really made for the recurve, but they look like they're doing fine to me. You said it could shoot lighter arrows without damaging it, but it seems to have plenty of power for driving that heavier arrow.

[@dashrendar5320]

Thanks my friend! Yeah they did well but they could be optimized better for the bow certainly and would give a better result no doubt

[@zsoltszabo7391]

I love how you mentioned, that the force builds up at a shorter draw length in the case of the recurve bow. That is the physical reason behind it's higher efficiency. If you make a diagram that's horizomtal axis is draw length, and the vertical axis is the drawing force (it can be easily calculated from draw weight), and you mark the points for each draw length the measured draw force, then the energy will be the area below these points limited by the two axis and a paralel vertical axis at the positon of your maximum draw length. Basicly, if the force builds up earlier the higher the energy will be.

[@hisgreasiness]

I've watched archers fire on the move at moving targets with the recurve. I've never used anything but a recurve, but it seems like it's comparatively better suited for short draws, yeilding rapid launches. You can still generate a lot of force with a half drawn recurve. There's however a different positioning of the forehand and when drawing the bow back, it is done with the thumb instead.

[@ehisey]

The short composite recurves typical draw between 28 and 36in so matching or exceeding long bows and were used at full draw while on the move. Short drawing was frowned on as you lose both power and accuracy with little significant gain in speed. Most of the speed lose in speed shooting is getting arrows from quiver to bow.

[@hisgreasiness]

@ehisey I wasn't referenceing or considering composites bows, since the guy shoots historically comperative, solid wood, long bows. The fastest recurve archers use a method of readying multiple aligned arrows in their hand, all while operating the bow.

[@ehisey]

@@hisgreasiness Historically the hand holding arrows was not that common really. It was a trick shooting tactic and maybe hunting. Main issue is there is a very small limit you can hold in your hand and then you would have to stop and fill the hand. One of the fastest video recorded speed shooter was drawing from the quiver and reaching full draw. It some kid out of either India or Africa. He was using waist quiver and low reload. No idea what the bow weight was. I know some Mounted Archers still do it, but they also know they have maybe five targets to hits. That is not many arrows when you consider cultures that were known for being fast shooters carried quiver loads of 30 arrows or more.

[@Flamewolf14]

Very cool video man. Your my example for gym goals and bow goals dang your buff! Mad respect. Also i have heard it being more efficient in powering the arrow. I did hear they were historically lower poundage and lighter arrows I have heard

[@David-th2ug]

I'm a barebow recurve shooter and I am gobsmacked at the poundage you are pulling! I've never seen a recurve at that poundage, I'd really like to know how it was made.

[@cool06alt]

Laminated woods backed with Fiberglass plate probably.

[@davesheppard8797]

You did great mate!! I shoot English longbows here in England. But....48-52#. I believe that in battles like Agincourt, etc, the arrows being shot high into the air and raining them down on the enemy, heavy arrows were of high importance. The bow just had to shoot the arrow the distance. The damage was done by the heavy arrows falling from a good height and hitting at a speed of 100mph. The arrows weren't shot at the enemy directly. The arrows raining down from a great height and the sky turning black, was reported by a French chronicler who whitnessed the battle. I thought your shooting was great though!! I have shooting videos on my channel @davesheppard8797, but not with monster bows like yours!! Best wishes, Dave.

[@digitaldogs233]

Dude you did show the result, and would have been same even if you shot perfect. If everything went the way we wanted we would never grow threw it. It was impressive 👍🏻💪

[@hotpanky6936]

I hunt wild with traditional bows in Australia. The most I've ever used is 100lbs, but I've shot mostly recurves and horsebows. I have a Hunn bow, Magyar bow, Old Scythian and a Turkish bow. Even though they're all around 70lbs they shoot and feel very differently. The Magyar, Hunn, and Turkish all have syahs, but they're all slightly different, and even between the Magyar and the Hunn, which have the same syah, the Hunn shoots differently because it's asymetric, which transfers a lot less stress to your hand. Of all my bows, I love the visual of the Magyar, but the Turkish is so much fun to shoot. Hard to explain. It's just Fun! ;-)

[@cool06alt]

Because Turkish bow is simply based on a bow from Renaissance era. It got basically "two siyahs", one is near the belly and the other is the tip. One is called kasan the other is siyah. So more evolved design, in contrast Magyar bow is double curve for it's belly and this is where most of the energy is stored, while the siyah is long but it only has one lever. Turkish bow, with the siyah and kasan, basically produce two if not three lever torques.

[@hotpanky6936]

Ah.. cool! thanks for the info @@cool06alt I'd really like to try a Japanese bow.

[@kraftranger1811]

Congrats on 200k!!!

[@dashrendar5320]

Thank you my friend

[@Wilhelm92]

How are you stringing the Despot?

[@dashrendar5320]

With help from my wife 😂 I can’t do it alons

[@Wilhelm92]

@@dashrendar5320 have you seen a waist cable? It's how I string my heavy recurves.

[@dashrendar5320]

I tried to make one yeah but could not get it sorted out. It kinda flew off once and it spooked me a bit

[@Wilhelm92]

@@dashrendar5320 there is at least one video out. I think Blake made one.

[@WilliamBlinky]

Don't be too hard on yourself mate. These things happen from time to time. I really enjoyed the comparison between these 2 bow. Hats off to you for your efforts.

[@dashrendar5320]

Thank you my friend! Glad you enjoyed it. It’s fun to share stuff even when the day is not your day 💪🏹

[@RoseKB22]

Recurves are so cool! So are longbows! I can totally relate to having off days. As an archery newbie, I have a lot to learn. Your videos are always inspiring, thank you for sharing with us!

[@A14b19]

My arms hurt watching .. Years back I use to shoot a 60 bl recurve fadela to 100 yards and could hit 2x2 foot target and a pleasure to shoot it would penetrate the hard foam. Sadly since getting covid pneumonia 3 yearsback my muscles have trouble pulling 40 lb . We’ll see still got 20 yrs life left 😅 love your programme don’t worry about mistakes 😊

[@rustysbladeandadventure1729]

I still really enjoyed the video. Thank you for posting it.

[@dashrendar5320]

Happily, glad you enjoyed it

[@grbdevnull5611]

The data is still valid in a comparative sense since you were having the same equally bad day with both bows. Also, this was still a great video even if you were off or lost footage. You were still able to share what you observed and provide information I am not in a situation to gather myself.

[@dashrendar5320]

Thank you my friend! It’s true both were not at full strength but even so the mechanical advantage of the recurve showed through 💪🏹

[@Jordan_Makes]

Nice video! I love your whole setup!

[@dashrendar5320]

Thanks for that my dude 💪🏹

[@colbunkmust]

Have you thought about training with a thumb draw on recurve bows? Obviously shouldn't start with such a heavy-weight bow, but it might be an interesting learning experience, definitely a great way to build thumb tendon and ligament strength.

[@dashrendar5320]

Yeah I have thought about it but have not yet taken the time to try and learn: would be fun though

[@colbunkmust]

@@dashrendar5320 my recommendation would be to start with a thumb ring if you start with a bow on the heavier side.

[@matuskadoun929]

It was a good video 😁 it's good to see everyone has those days

[@dashrendar5320]

Yeah for sure 😂 whether it’s in life or in your hobby some days are just rough. They make the good days better though

[@kyram4471]

Where did you get your recurve from? Awesome video, doesn't matter if it was an off day or you had technical issues, a video from you is always epic

[@17yearoldwarbowarcher]

Mr bows its called the tiron

[@The_Cyber_Nomad]

I have a European laminated shortbow just like that, I love it, but it would have cost as much as 10 longbows to make in 1500AD Europe.

[@lemagicbaguette1917]

Good luck keeping it laminated.

[@MartinGreywolf]

There is at least one more factor that makes this test not pass the academic standards - it's the wrong recurve bow. While the only thing anyone ever talks about is draw weight, there is... a lot of things that go into how fast an arrow is, and one of the more important ones is material of the bow, and you can probably already see where I'm going with this. We do have some possible evidence of wood recurve bows, probably made via steam bending, but the heavier draw weights were almost exclusively made of horn composite, and that is much, much lighter bowstave than you can get with wood for a given draw weight. That means that for the same draw weight, you have less energy wasted on moving the bow itself, and more transferred into the arrow, even without all the mechanical tricks of recurves going into play, to a point where composite crossbows were preferred to steel ones due to better performance. For a source on this paragraph, see Mike Loades' Warbows. How that historical composite recurve compares to modern laminated recurve... I have no idea. I don't think they would be miles apart, but there could be enough of a difference to affect the results of something as finnicky as exact penetration at range.

[@ehisey]

Having handled, own and shoit hornbows. There are not in reality that much heavier than modern laminate bows and frequently lighter than modern fiberglass bows. Interesting design point is the best composite often have sllimmer lighter limb ends than modern reproduction resulting in over all lighter working limbs.

[@MrThewetsheep]

Dude id love to see you start getting into more eastern archery!

[@dashrendar5320]

That’s the goal! To add it in more 😁

[@samivey8416]

Even with bows we hunted with I've noticed the longbow draws smoother for me up to 80 pounds. And it's more forgiving. The recurve is pretty and it can be fast. But it doesn't forgive or feel as smooth as the longbow

[@dashrendar5320]

For me personally it feels the same way

[@pug-aloentertainment3801]

Bad days give more contrast to the good days, I suppose, hah! Either way, nicely done, that was some cool result in the end. That makes me wonder though, which max draw weight would be good for a mounted archer with a recurve bow?

[@dashrendar5320]

Haha indeed they do, man, I can’t imagine doing anything near that on horseback. Could probably manage 100lbs personally but that’s it and that would be a struggle. But i was not raised on it like people of old

[@pug-aloentertainment3801]

@@dashrendar5320 true, true. I imagine it to be pretty tricky to do a good pull without solid footing, especially while riding

[@Mccaid]

As much as you seemed to be struggling to pull the bows back, to shoot that well is amazing.

[@magdalena_meroni]

"The days that feel like failure are the ones that build character" - I need to make a plaque with this inscription and hang it on the wall. 👍😅

[@dashrendar5320]

Thank you for that! There an honor to hear

[@cool06alt]

You should try Manchu bow, often considered as the "longbow of Composite bow family". Historical arrows used by the archer using the bow can be as heavy as 1500 grain. Even higher. Not to mention the maximum draw length due to the shape of bow siyah can be as long as 35 inch.

[@dashrendar5320]

I would love ALL the bows haha. But money

[@cool06alt]

@@dashrendar5320 Indeed, Grozer biocomposites for example were basically the most affordable option for these historical composite bows design. Around 300-600 USD But yeah most authentic composite bows cost around like 1200 USD if not more. In all honestly, I would like to see if those short Korean recurve bows being used to shoot heavy arrow and see if the efficiency is the same or worse or higher than longbow of comparatively same draw weight. Since this is about to test if geometrical construction of a bow can influence the output, I think the cheap fiberglass option wouldn't matter.

[@tomp6548]

Probably the most authentic feeling Manchu bow on the market at the moment is the Yarha II from Alibow, $200 fibreglass bow. Unfortunately it only goes up to 80# but that’s still warbow material

[@cool06alt]

@@tomp6548 Yeah let's just hope Dash Rendar notice that. Even if we solely goes by experimenting if the shape of the bow would matter, when pitted against longbow with comparable draw weight. I think it would still make good experiment, even if the manchu bow is not made out of horn and sinew.

[@dashrendar5320]

Oh that’s not much at all! I will check that out

[@yofu3048]

“Fudge!, gosh dang it!” The words of a true father 😂 I’ve had to retrain my vocabulary for my niece and nephew and say the same things

[@dashrendar5320]

Hahaha yes indeed. It’s become habit at this point 😂😂 I don’t even realize that’s how I talk until I hear myself

[@dragonlordking112]

Where did you get your arm guard from, my last one got shredded when I was practicing with my 55lb recurve

[@dashrendar5320]

3 rivers archery my friend

[@comfusedWorldpassanger3399]

I started out with western recurve bows and did it for years, but once I got into the technique on the Asian bows there was no going back. Hope to see more videos of you and the recurve bow..

[@gizmonomono]

First of all, I always appreciate a practical test. It's easy to be a keyboard warrior. 😁 The test itself didn't surprise me, the recurve is definitely a superior shape when it comes to bows. Most of the time I think. What I'm wondering is would a lighter arrow shot at higher speed, a longer draw length, meaning thumb draw, be more deadly. An idea for you to try 😁 We need more tests like this one.

[@dashrendar5320]

Yeah I gotta train to use a thumb draw first 😂

[@michaelcarey3105]

Years ago I read that the Huns used light bows which obviosly, as you proved, won't penetrate shields or armour. The Huns basically in undated an area with arrows until a man got hit somewhere unprotected and fell, exposing more legs and arms in the opening. They kept it up until they broke up the cohorts. I forget how Mongols defeated armored knights but you probably know. Nice video!❤

[@SD-ft5xj]

When nomadic tribes and settled people clash nomads have nothing to lose they are on horseback with much lighter armour. Knights are actually at a huge disadvantage because they are slow and clunky. Nomads will just leave 😂 this is what happened when eastern romans clashed with oghuz turkic tribes, they would send heavily armoured armies and the archers on horseback who basically came from one of the harshest environments on earth able to live anywhere would just leave and take over the lands feeding those armed forces

[@ianhathaway602]

That was still very cool and impressive! Thanks for sharing

[@dashrendar5320]

Thanks my friend! The results still were pretty astounding truth be told. Just not as good as they could have been 😂

[@ianhathaway602]

Well that is also what is so interesting. I wonder what that recurve will do once you have mastered it! I also wonder if the thumb technique with a suitable ring would make a difference on being able to push past that initial resistance. I myself practice asiatic archery, so I am even more curious to see where this goes. Good luck with training and don't overdo it!

[@themartyr9086]

Still a great video, man that recurve has some punch. 😮

[@dashrendar5320]

Thanks. And yeah it does! It’s crazy

[@wolfheartguitar]

Thanks for beeing human ❤ loved the video I am starting archery myself with a recurve Takedown bow of 40 pounds from Aliexpress and I am loving it

[@rayjohnson9742]

Another great video. Keep practicing so we can see what els you can do with it.

[@dashrendar5320]

Will do my friend!

[@AleksiBennettGuitar]

Man, it happens. You tried to make it better; it didn't pan out. It's still a good video even if you felt like you could have done better. I'm down for more recurve content! Glad you came out of it on a positive. I have plenty of wasted recording hours myself and that's not always easy.

[@dashrendar5320]

Thanks so much for that man. Tried to make it as good as I could and I will definitely incorporate more in the future. It’s a fantastic bow and will be amazing to let it stretch its legs fully. Want to try to do a distance test once the weather gets better

[@Psycho-Ssnake]

I'm do not know how it took Administrative Results for me to know you exist on KZbin. I usually watch more medieval weapon stuff than firearm content. Thanks for working with the guy so I could learn about ya.

[@dashrendar5320]

That’s so awesome. So happy you were able to find the channel. Just a bunch of nerdy, Medieval stuff and some fantasy, sci fi and gaming hah

[@robertbrunston5406]

Very cool! Thanks for sharing.

[@MrDarkysoccer]

Hey Dash, i may got an Video Idea for you. What about a tutorial "How i make my Arrows for a Warbow" ? Would be so interesting to see that. I really enjoy your Content. Keep going my Friend.

[@dashrendar5320]

I actually did one a while ago but a few people have asked. Maybe it’s time for another one

[@statmonster]

Very interesting. Loved the comparison between longbow and recurve. Love to see you retry if you think you had an off-day.

[@abeldasilva9368]

Hi Dash, Thank you for making a video comparing the long bow versus the recurve .The recurve is my favourite but my heaviest drawing bow in my collection is a mere 45#.You impress me with your heavy poundage draws. I am not worthy in comparison to you. Do you do a Khatra on the recurve bow ?I seem to always have a problem with my arrows landing angled.