Let's talk about the drama with Cody Schwab...

[@hungrybox]

if you took all of cody's plays, frame for frame, and instead put the tag as "mango" with mango's playercam people would be calling it the greatest plays of all time. just sayin ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@SALTYTOAD00]

Spitting straight facts.

[@tymeyer5084]

Lmao truer words might have never been spoken 🤣

[@icegod4849]

@TreyMM-qz4wg true, cody's fox has mad tech that mang0's fox cant hit at the moment.

[@LarJet220]

mango isnt dating a man tho :o

[@Jerma985_fan]

For real! Back in the day, we lived for watching people come up and start wrecking tournaments.

[@silkytv]

Hard to take the community seriously when the same community is fine with Leffen but randomly antagonize Cody and Hbox.

[@GlitchanBlack]

That's America for you...

[@ricardoludwig4787]

People arent fine with leffen what the hell are you talking about, he's the second most divisive person in the community after Hbox

[@markantony9038]

Leffen is fun and has cool hair

[@hyperionf6357]

and Hax

[@piyo744]

​@@markantony9038leffen is a manchild

[@ClwkInstnct]

And then people get mad when Cody defends himself.

[@SnoozeSSB]

Everyone is allowed to criticize him at scale, thousands of people even mango. But the second you defend yourself your defensive and weak

[@Kade503]

I think it's more that he doesn't want to/is not built to play the games that come with being a minor celebrity. If Mango gets critizied he can easily defend himself in a way that, as Hbox mentioned, is usually funny and therefore naturally disarming, yada yada. If people didn't find me funny I would be hated much more than Cody if I was in that position. It's hard when the people leading the charge are just ones who have the least hesistance to say the vilest things in the safety of their mother's basement and think that someone like Cody needs to entertain them both in the game and outside the game for whatever reason. For the longest time I "hated" Hbox simply because I played Peach and hated the playing the Jigglypuff matchup with a passion. An incredibly dumb reason, I guess the difference was I knew it was dumb and therefore was not trying to push some anti-Hbox crusade. Unfortunately nothing gets people(especially the stupid ones) fired up more than having something they can hate together.

[@krusher181]

@@SnoozeSSBalmost like we’re all just humans and we’re not built to be famous in any way. Curious that

[@krusher181]

@@Kade503yeah most humans aren’t built for celebrity or being famous. It’s bad for the brain

[@mindcraftbuscuits7725]

Man's lied about having sex with his own mother, he's a fucking weirdo

[@BeansEnjoyer911]

online communities make me sad. a large portion of it is spent shitting on people instead of being positive cody is fucking killing the game right now and deserves recognition and respect for it i keep hoping every event that its the return of Mang0, but i also am just stoked to see some great matchups people forget that these players are real humans with feelings and dedication

[@Kade503]

A majority of these people wouldn't say any of the toxic filth they spew online in-person, and think that's true for everyone just to lesser degrees. Everytime I write something like this I try to ask myself, "would I say this in-person?" and a good chunk of the time there's at least once sentence erased. Unfortunately the hate bandwagon seems so much easier for people to jump on without even thinking and then there's the algorithims and BS of social media that shamelessly fuels the cycle, destroying the sense of community I've felt in the past with online communities. If you feel frustrated and want to lash out may I suggest corporations? There's a pretty good chance they're to blame regardless.

[@aerozchris7635]

so true

[@andrewferguson6901]

Melee is acquiring Twitter brainrot. Bring back smash boards

[@SpaghettiJoBayBay]

Modern gaming in a nutshell sadly. We're quick to complain instead of trying to get better. We have our bias towards fan favorites and don't wanna see change. Yeah no one wants to see our favs lose but it'd be extremely unrealistic to expect them to be on top forever.

[@TheHandyMan101]

it's literally just the fact that hes an asshole

[@XC11301991]

Armada has shared on his stream as well when he was rank 1 and how people treated him and cheered for him to lose. Armada was discussing about when Zero was rank 1 in Sm4sh and how Zero worked hard to earn that position, and there will always be haters that want to not just see you fail, but actively talk shit. Hell we had MkLeo, also a non-controversial nice top player in Ult, and people would talk shit about his playstyle being "boring" when like Armada just played very tactically.

[@aquilleswinkler5051]

Had? is MkLeo not the best anymore?

[@XC11301991]

@@aquilleswinkler5051 Nope, hasn't been for 2 years now. He's debatable even in top 10 now.

[@redduck6483]

@@XC11301991one year. Not two

[@Yokai_Yuri]

This is the first time I have seen someone saying Prime Leo gameplay was boring lol. He was a genius in the game and the only negative comment I see nowadays is how Leo can't top anymore because he is washed. It happened to Tweek when he had like half a year of bad streak of not even getting to top 8. Now the dude is absolutely bunkers and cementing his place amongst the best.

[@lordlyka68]

​@@Yokai_YuriI was there when mk leo first started getting popular and during his peak and I can say that I saw people calling his gameplay boring too, which I never understood lol

[@MaximillianGreil]

people just gotta stop reading twitter. Like... everyone just needs to ignore twitter.

[@mitrimind1027]

That site is dying anyway since a certain billionaire bought it.

[@MaximillianGreil]

@@mitrimind1027 absolutely, but we still got news stations reporting on a tweet with 7 likes and 3 retweets. We just as a society need to stop looking all at once. Society will be better for it. Treat it like Tumblr.

[@Ser0z]

​​@@mitrimind1027 tbh i don't want Twitter to die cause its scp containment for stupid people if that site goes down we're gonna have another Tumblr moment

[@joeykelly5642]

The subreddit is even more of a dumpster fire.

[@mitrimind1027]

@@Ser0z lol yeah, it keeps the raging narcissists off the rest of the internet.

[@CoughAMania]

Asumsaus' video on Cody bouta go crazy ngl

[@kalidoesart]

i read this wrong and got excited expecting an asumsaus upload 😭

[@havvomusic]

Is he making one???

[@celestial_crash0]

@@havvomusicif people keep supporting him on patreon, I am sure he will make every and any video he can.

[@Bombermanfan95]

Nah an EmpLemon vid finna go wild

[@nunyabusiness7056]

I don't think AsumSaus would touch a video on drama in the slightest. turddownforwalt on the other hand...

[@B463L]

Saying that Cody is too dominant is hilarious. It's like we all somehow forgot that he had to play a tiebreaker set to secure the #1 spot last year. The Cody-Zain rivalry is very much alive, folks. Don't sleep on the competition just because Cody has won two of the year's three majors so far. Oh, and Cody isn't some perennial titan who could never be toppled by anyone. He spent the entire pandemic getting his ass mopped up by Zain and Mango only to triumph at Summit 12. You liked him back then because he was the underdog. Now it's his time at the top

[@jumnyum]

Great way to put it. This community needs to be able to root against a top player in a healthy way while still respecting what an achievement being #1 is, and they only seem to want to do the rooting against and not the respecting.

[@B463L]

@@jumnyum or maybe rooting for an underdog rather than rooting against a top player

[@RealNikTrustMe]

"People love to see the smaller guy go on top, because maybe the smaller guy getting on top reminds them of themselves" - Hungrybox 2024

[@Hegaems]

And i am just as good as the top players and that's why i love them.

[@aItachroma]

I’m small and like getting top

[@Fishman465]

You forgot "the better you are, the more TARGETED you are" considering your issues and other players in other smash scenes. It's different than the regular FGC largely as dominant players are praised, though that has more traditional faces and heels than Smash where the only real heels is Leffen and to a more reasonable extent, you. It's a powerful thing to hear you admit Mang0's funny. If anything Cody should be celebrated as he seems to be newer blood in a scene in dire need of it, though I feel Ultimate's going that way as well

[@Suwawako]

Well said

[@sharkronical]

@@Suwawakohuh why are you here

[@MegaloMan-d6l]

Hes just hard to like man, i love his content and i play fox so he has helped me improve so much, but he is just really unlikeable.

[@luxray367]

​@@MegaloMan-d6l what makes him unlikeable?

[@LuigiLonLon]

People think Cody is boring?! boy they better don't see any Ultimate Sonic gameplay... they're gonna have an aneurysm

[@Kade503]

It's sad how much hate flashed in my chest just thinking about it for a split second from this comment. Steve is dumb and broken, but Sonic is everything you hate rolled together into a spinning blue ball of lame.

[@kappakuppa7255]

well to be completely fair I think sonix is a very technically nice player to watch it just depends on the mu

[@evidencedotzip]

Better not*

[@sebastiansullivan4770]

Sonix is a fantastic player. ​@@kappakuppa7255

[@Frank7489]

I could be wrong but I believe ppl are saying Cody is boring as a person, not that his gameplay is boring

[@JiggieSmalls]

Cody needs to start mewing

[@cleenbeen]

REALLL

[@yaboismashing5066]

Cringe

[@PedroDeVerdade]

idk if it's gonna do anything, he'll be a chinlet for ever i think

[@Ghoats]

🤫🧏‍♂️

[@HKip]

Deadass is mewing proven to do something?

[@dh3913]

7:06 agreed, but also I think a decent portion of melee viewers don't care about good melee. They have certain players they think are cool and lame, not in the game but irl, and they want the cool guys to win and the lame guys to lose. It feels very middle / high school, probably because that's how old these viewers are lol. To be clear there is nothing wrong with having favorite players, but deciding you hate someone because "they're so cringe" and they're good at the video game you like watching is insane.

[@GlitchanBlack]

That's America for you...

[@Fishman465]

"Good" as in fun? As that and effective Melee can be different

[@dh3913]

​@@Fishman465 "Good" by their own definition. The point is they don't really care about gameplay, they could see Mango's fox perform the exact same inputs as Cody and they'd cheer, but Cody does it and they hate. Not saying this is majority of viewers by any means but definitely a noteworthy amount. They can be seen leaving personal attacks in comments instead of commenting on the gameplay.

[@daxmoney5011]

It’s like Pro Wrestling the casuals wanna see more crazy shit that’s why guys like Bret Hart might come off boring to the them The Die Hards love the technical shit so they love guys like Hart, Perc Angle, Gunther, AJ Styles and more

[@DXGraveman]

disliking things that are cringe is a natural reaction, you can’t really blame people for that, it’s in our programming. I think Cody just had to look at the situation as is and adjust unfortunately, obviously it sucks if people find you cringe but you can’t change people’s perception without changing your image.

[@10Gpixels]

Crab mentality type shit. Cody is so hype. Love to see them killing it.

[@Jishen]

cody is hype lmao

[@biblix]

Bro I watched the cody reverse pop off like 30 times

[@geargrind9307]

yeah hes fun to watch

[@SaiyanX5]

Yeah he's great

[@Dave_Chrome]

Crab mentality is hilarious, I'm gonna try to use the term more when talking about this stuff

[@Figgy20000]

HUNGRYBOX CHECKED HIS WATCH??? Sorry but that was the dumbest drama of all time. Melee community be crazy

[@joel-o4020]

Perhaps the one of the moments in gaming history. I can’t think of a gaming drama as stupid off the top of my head, but then again I don’t know much outside of smash. I’d be shocked if anything could top it.

[@christheophilus7154]

hugs86's stupid ass destroyed his career with that one

[@ThePortjumper]

they'll always hate on the #1. Hbox, Zain, Cody, the list keeps going. It's only when Zain was #1 that this whole narrative of marth is lame started emerging. Hbox was called lame at #1, etc. Now people are hyped when he does well. Cody's skill people say has to do with Z jumping, ridiculous.

[@HispanicatthediscoMTG]

Tbf zain is lame 😏

[@SparkyForce]

It’s important to note that Zain got good after Smash 4 was basically dead. And during Smash 4’s lifespan everything about Melee was overhyped by people that hated Smash 4. Smash 4 vs Melee had a big impact on the discussions at the time.

[@Dontbother-]

It literally has to do with Z-jump and he was more honest about it before climbing the ladder. Now he minimize the impact of it by saying he doesn't use it that much , when he actually does according to the slippy files. It throws years of technique out the window and as much as i respect cody and don't think he did anything wrong/against the rules , i and lots of people call for a z jump rulling change as not using z-jump as of now is kinda trolling if you're serious about winning.

[@user-wj8dz4vu3f]

Melee community is in love with mango and they aren’t happy unless mango is #1

[@duskpede5146]

@@Dontbother- z jump discourse is so stupid. you've swapped two buttons, its just everyone finding the smallest thing to latch onto to not admit that its their own fault they suck at the game

[@Amaling]

No way people are giving Cody shit for using vyvanse aka ADHD medication?

[@rannynihilius8481]

The whole medication "discussion" is some of the most terminally online shit i've ever read. Usually comes from the same block of people who denied the existence of Corona and the neckbeards who throw a fit every time a trans person is on screen. I was usually fine with leaving Twitch chat on for tourneys but ever since these sad individuals went to such uncomfortable lenghts to whine about players there's just no fun in having any kind of discourse about Melee online. The bizzare thing is that it's just online like this because almost everyone i've met at actual events is reasonable, constructive or just keep to themselves.

[@koolthing18]

It's not really the blame game. Think about how many other melee competitors have adhd and aren't capable of affording medication. It's not that it's an advantage, but those other players are playing with a serious disadvantage. So, no it's not Cody's fault, but it does suck for everyone else too.

[@tvph]

@@koolthing18lol what? sucks to suck health insurance is a thing yanno

[@koolthing18]

@@tvph damn you're really replying to a month old comment. You are either too young to know what you're talking about, from another country, or just really REALLY dense. Cody has said himself that the meds can be difficult to get, even after getting a prescription. There's a limited supply. Theirs biases, nepotism, richer people, and flat out more severe cases than Cody's that will be prioritized. Something like one in twenty people have adhd in the U.S. To consider Cody anything less than lucky to have it is nonsense. Also, look at Cody's playstyle. He's so fast, and technical, and defensive. Nobody ever says "look at that gutsy hard read Cody just did! He's playing of raw instinct!" Sure he's got reads, but he's characteristically calculated and precise to a near inhumane level.

[@somedudethatdoesthings8057]

Smash really has a bad habit of fucking over their best players. Let them win, goddamn it.

[@SALTYTOAD00]

Exactly.

[@asianpablo1574]

Saying he’s boring isn’t “fucking him over”

[@SALTYTOAD00]

​@@asianpablo1574 Don't competitive Melee players want something called "Z Jumps" banned because of him? I'm not a comp Melee player, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

[@asianpablo1574]

@@SALTYTOAD00 idk about all that bro stuff like that is dumb. That reminds me of when people wanted to ban final destination solely because of Zain lol

[@SALTYTOAD00]

​​@asianpablo1574 Jeez, Smash players will try to get anything banned. Why would anyone want to ban the stage that was literally made for the competitive scene?

[@joeykelly5642]

Let’s remember that Leffen wasn’t banned for making up false Me Too allegations against a disabled man and bullying him into revealing sensitive info about his reproductive health. But TOs are more than comfortable banning people for their political beliefs, and the community sees no problem with dragging Cody through the mud over his medication, and reassigning buttons (a common function built into most fighting games). Some of the people who play this game have issues, man.

[@Sonick92]

Michigan still requires a COVID vaccine to play in locals

[@TheJCK729]

@@Sonick92good

[@drewburt]

Absolutely wild

[@ln8496]

Agreed that what leffen did to m2k is akin to sexual harassment, but spreading misinformation and hate towards minorities isnt just “a difference in political opinion” its also harassment.

[@ln8496]

Also some “political opinions” should ABSOLUTELY be completely socially unacceptable. Actions shouldnt be protected just because theyre driven by political opinions.

[@ericpurcell2523]

I feel this energy within my own close friend group. We used to play smash religiously, and more often than not, I would win (legit 90%< of our matches). This made me a constant target, and it made me feel like a villain. I was very rarely congratulated or patted on the back, and everyone only wanted to see me lose, see me rage, etc. And this skewed their perception of my playstyle as well, as they often accused me of using cheap tactics which simply weren't true. They would complain that I should switch characters more often, because somehow it was impossible for them to adapt to my Wii Fit Trainer, of all characters. It's not like I'm being carried by my main or anything. I've been maining Wii Fit for years, and I would literally only play if my friends were playing with me. I wasn't sitting at home drilling Wii Fit Trainer combos that I'd seen on KZbin or anything like that. I would simply improvise and adapt my playstyle depending on what my friends were choosing/doing. But yeah, it sucks when you just want to have fun and are very competitive, of course your gonna try to win as much as possible! But a lot of the time when I win, the energy in the room is just so unpleasant. I don't have a desire to switch to my secondary or tertiary fighter unless I can tell my friends are excessively tilted, and even then it doesn't always help because I honestly think Mr G&W and ROB are far more irritating than Wii Fit (and just objectively better ranking fighters). Sometimes we reach an agreement to just all select random, to avoid the salt. Anyway, that's all, that's my rant.

[@PrestoJacobson]

I don't play with my family or friends anymore because of this. Only in person weekly tournaments!

[@evanmcdonald9134]

I had always felt to some degree better than my friends and to get around any issues that could come from that I just play 10 characters. In that case you always have the option to switch to someone more disadvantaged or rusty if the tension is getting shitty

[@finnmarr-heenan2397]

From how you type I would guess you have no sauce, u probably just ledge trap all day, they are salty losers but a fight is like a conversation , u have to make it interesting , no one like losing an argument but losing a boring argument to a guy just repeating the same thing over and over will get them mad .

[@evanmcdonald9134]

@@finnmarr-heenan2397 Git gud

[@UiritheGuri]

counterpoint: amsa could win everyevent for the next 2 years and i 100% doubt people would be ganging up on him. same with any char/non top tier outside top 5

[@JonathanScarlet]

That would entirely depend on how long the sensation of seeing Yoshi at the top lasts, imo. I highly doubt anyone will hate Amsa because of Amsa (...I sure as hell hope not), but once the honeymoon of Yoshi being at the top like Puff with HBox is over, I can easily see people starting to shit-talk about it.

[@TheMightyGiantDad]

Completely incorrect. People started saying Yoshi was boring and amsa was stalling as soon as he started winning.

[@happyhour4670]

@@JonathanScarlet Agreed, but I feel like Puff is a character that's just not interesting in gameplay and doesn't take much skill to learn. Easy to learn, hard to master. Yoshi looks super fun and takes actual creativity. Hard to learn and harder to master.

[@Rez_97]

The real problem is people complaining about z jump after dismantling all of pools, with their also heavily modded controllers. If you don’t like z jump, ban modded controllers all together otherwise, skill issue cry about it

[@Dontbother-]

Or allow modded controllers but don't allow button layout changes ? Those two things can be totally separated and im a bit tired of people pretending they can't . Thing with z-jump is it makes not switching to it genuine trolling .

[@Hack--rz1io]

​@@Dontbother-isn't that applicable to all the mods ? Why wouldn't you have notches, snapback fixes, a digital trigger, a hall effect stick etc

[@Dontbother-]

@@Hack--rz1io good point, i think the snap back one should be put aside as its really just something that helps the controller work as intended,same for hall effect .Digital triggers to max lightshield definitely feels op tho and as for notches idk as its so common now but yeah they do enter this category

[@grumpyw01f19]

​@@Dontbother- As long as Boxx or similar controllers are legal, there is no right to complain about controller mods.

[@GabrielHodge]

Boxx controllers contrast phobs pretty well I have a phob boxx personally and I love the damn thing

[@Tyler-ob4qp]

If I ever become a top melee player I'm gonna make sure to permanently cap myself at rank 2 so that the community never turns their pitchforks on me

[@GreatSikoTM]

what a pussy thing to say

[@DreamcastSoupYT]

Fuck that become a heel lol.

[@cleenbeen]

first time hbox wasnt neutral during an argument. this man experienced it 1st hand, PLAYING PUFF TOO! DAMN!

[@JiggieSmalls]

I will never see Cody the same after his reverse pop off against hbox

[@TopOfAllWorlds]

Best moment ever tbh

[@TheBeggies95]

@@TopOfAllWorldsCringiest moment ever. Can’t believe people forgot about it LMAO

[@Windraesa]

@@TheBeggies95 it's not that people forgot about it. It was just not a big deal, it was a insignificant moment in time and life went on.

[@BlueCatBuilds]

Stuff like that is an indication of character whether you like it or not, you don’t get to just act cringe and have no social repercussion

[@straawberryfieldsforever]

@@TheBeggies95 tbf it was more between him and hbox and theyre both over it

[@ricardoludwig4787]

God I hate the melee community, no community loves complaining more than this one, and on the few moments where things are going well (last year was incredibly exciting, a historic new number 1 was crowned in spectacular fashion with a first to 10), people will randomly just start turning on players?? Same shit happened on Zain, hbox was already controversioal before but I remember people cheering against armada because he"won too much". They clown on everyone that wins for making the game boring and call them washed when they lose

[@finnmarr-heenan2397]

Smash as a whole took a black eye when people are still simping for nairo

[@thisalt8691]

as someone who's on reddit too much, they're complaining more about z-jump, especially in the last few months and weeks than him being boring.

[@Kade503]

I don't even get this since any other game this is bypassed and legal with like things like 8bitdo controllers built-in button re-mapping. It's only because we haven't gotten a good QoL update to the shell/buttons of the GC controller and we can't risk the C&D of making it in-game option. I was really hoping with the popularity of Phobs there would then be a second Panda controller attempt(the concept, I know Panda was killed by random internet trolls...) but just the shell to put a Phob in. Leverless>everything but Z jump from Phob≥notches>>>z jump

[@mindcraftbuscuits7725]

The lying about having sex with his mom is a big part

[@DrakodanSRL]

The big issue I have with the angle of "People cheer for the underdog because they can relate to them" etc, is that it highlights the fact that your choice to support the underdog is a product of ego. Your support for them is related to how it makes YOU feel. In many competitive games, I like to find out who the dominant #1 player is, the guy who's head-and-shoulders better than everyone else, and then see how far they can go. How long they can retain the crown, how big they can force the gap that everyone else has to fill. If you LOVE a game for the game itself, then you should love a display of excellence in that game. There's a great appeal to the sportsman who can run rings around the "top-top players" and make it look like they're playing an entirely different game. The fact that "your guy" has to get owned by them is an unfortunate byproduct of that as far as your own feelings are concerned, but the game and the competitive landscape do not care what your feelings are. Full disclosure, I am a Hungrybox fan. (No shit if I'm commenting on this video.) When there's a supermajor with all the top players, it's Hbox's sets that I'm eagerly waiting for, and I'm always hoping that THIS is the one where he pulls through and wins big again. As we all know, that's been pretty uncommon in recent years, largely because of both Cody and Zain having great records VS Hbox, so I have as much reason as anyone else to see them matched up and go "Oh, here we fucking go again." But I do not resent Cody/Zain having their #1 placements during their respective times just because they often beat my favourite player. Scaling the mountain is an incredible achievement no matter who does it, and I'd never wish for a #1 player's downfall in and of itself.

[@edenkeller5850]

Respectfully, it's a likeability thing, not a #1 thing. Hungrybox has become a lot more likeable in the community, mostly because of his success in streaming, getting an opportunity to show that he's not cringe. Cody just isn't that likeable. He's not as cool or funny or friendly as a lot of the other top players. He complains all the time and is overly sensitive. If he had a likeable personality, people would root for him similar to Zain and Mango. Especially if he put a little more swag into his gameplay.

[@MrJ691]

This is zomba in a nutshell. He's the savior we need but get scrutinized for every tiny mistake he makes. He's basically Prime Hungrybox Jr

[@OneArmedRetroGamer]

Someone made a video titled Cody the most unlucky melee player of all time or something like that. It's a good watch

[@bigdrefromthebay6475]

Cody is ok, weatballz is better and my favorite player

[@redwarrior118]

Based answer

[@selearth3123]

yo westballz defends racism, maybe you should reconsider supporting someone who does that

[@redwarrior118]

@@selearth3123 source?

[@N_Nishi]

@@selearth3123 based?

[@Odin-eau9]

Based, will support him now, thank you.

[@ujingamer]

I love cody. I like watching him play I like watching his streams and when he used to do videos with marss and wadi and them at panda like he just seems like a great guy to me. no one's perfect but he seems solid.

[@user-uo9yb2qx8z]

I think people just think he's lame and boring and not what they want people to see when they come across our game like when M2K was our flagship boy back then

[@SALTYTOAD00]

So this guy is basically the Sonix of the Melee community. He starts doing well in tournaments, and then salty players go and harrass him on Twitter. And then they wonder why Nintendo doesn't like the Smash community.

[@bawbehh]

I promise you thats not why people dislike sonix

[@Legendary_Honey]

Now I'm not condoning anything, but Sonix plays Sonic. Fox is at least significantly more enjoyable to watch. Also, Nintendo has plenty of other reasons to dislike the community. Safety is legitimately a concern that the community hasn't done much to fix.

[@jinxeatsdust]

​@@bawbehh no, it is.

[@SALTYTOAD00]

​@@bawbehh It absolutely is. Sonix is completely innocent.

[@SALTYTOAD00]

​@@Legendary_Honey That still doesn't justify the harassment he gets. No one should get hate just because they play a certain character in a game.

[@jlmusican5614]

Cody even made a video saying something nice about every top player. This large amount of negativity towards him really seems to hurt him, as it did with every top player that experienced it and it is just awful to see. I don't want to see new Armadas or Zeros getting bullied out of the game they love. For me I think of Cody very highly and found his videos, where he explains how to train and get better more effectively, very helpful and interesting. He is not my favorite top player, but he doesn't have to be and being number one as solo Fox is one of the most impressive things I have ever seen in Melee. Keep it up Cody!

[@faceurhell]

I just want all the Melee scenes hate to be directed to the person we all hate: Nintendo!

[@Sir_Loin_Tippe]

I have basically no dog in this fight, however Cody's tweet gives off the same energy as "none of you are famous musicians so how dare you say Justin Beiber sucks." That being said I actually don't dislike Cody,, I'm subscribed to him, I just think as the champion you should be more gracious. Armada never bitched like Cody, you were wayyyy better, M2K kinda did but I give him a pass because of his social issues. When it comes to remapping, I just wish there was a legit way to do it like basically all other fgc games since 1999. Also, I don't think he's a boring player, just more analytical than spontaneous. Sorta like Wizzy compared to N0ne. Both are fun, one might just be a bit more fun than the other

[@nathanby5835]

Mang0 did the same shit in the reddit ama

[@ujingamer]

I would disagree on the energy of that tweet it's like why do you have to shit on me and say I'm the worst when you know nothing about the game. this isn't some random person he's defending it's himself and people yelling and booing right in his face. like if you could go right up to a sports player as they are playing their game like two feet away to boo him just cause he's number one. you can have your own opinion but with all the crap we have had in the smash comunity we should all just be nice to each other this doesn't make sense as Hbox said.

[@1times1]

I think clearing M2K cause of social issues is kinda hypocritical. Cody has Austism, and I think that makes a difference from neurotypical people. I'm not saying either of them are bad. I think both of them are good. However, I just think it's kind of unfair to treat players differently on their personal struggles. No issues to you, man 🙌 idk if you even knew tho lol

[@serval_ssbm]

kinda misreading the tweet there, he's defending himself, not another person; it's more like "literally none of the people shitting on me for no reason have ever and likely will never put in half as much work as me, so fuck em," and honestly, i agree. why should he be barred from firing back at people who shit on him despite probably having no hope of coming close to understanding what he's gone through to get where he's at? imo he shouldn't be just because he's #1. also, cody's also autistic, as is m2k, so if you're givin passes for that you might as well give one to cody.

[@Sir_Loin_Tippe]

@@ujingamer Yeah I mostly agree with you. I'm not a super big sports fan, but I do have roommates/friends who are and it seems like shitting on athletes happens roughly the same as players in smash. I'm not saying I condone that, but just an observation I've had. In this little community I think it just comes off way harsher than in let's say the NFL. An NFL star doesn't know who you are and doesn't care because they make 10million a year. In Smash we are such a small community that you can actually get in touch with top players. Now all these top 10 players are seeing so many haters, as top NFL stars wouldn't, that it makes it hard for them to just ignore. It does sorta suck. I don't have a solution, just stating my observations

[@alruff9198]

I don't know a ton about Cody, but I'm hyped for the idea of ppmd to return to the scene

[@markalexander6036]

I'm not always keeping up with melee's meta and playerbase, so I am a little out of the loop. But I wanna say that this controversy makes no sense to me. Cody is the only Fox player that I ever get excited about watching. I believe it started when I watched Cody play against Hungrybox a couple years ago. Hungrybox had just beat down another Fox player, but then Cody gets on the screen, and it was a whole 'nother world. I can't recall but I'm almost certain he won that game, and made it look stylish. After that, I knew this Fox was something special. And I've been a Cody fan ever since. He's the only Fox player that I become excited to see on screen. And that remains true today, even if he is the top player. Cody is an inspiration. I wanna see Cody's 20XX Fox.

[@houseofpaincakes]

Of course, only the Melee community would self-cannibalize itself this hard. Honestly sick of the excuse, "It's bad for views if our favorite tournament player doesn't win," and the like. It's a tournament. You aren't destined to win, and those people aren't destined to stay and watch. You want a given win with all the fanfare? Join pro wrestling. Honestly just sad.

[@CheapShotFail]

I don't care what other people say, Cody is super fun to watch. His sets with Zain have been classics for a long time and he actually has a really interesting story if you've followed it from the start. Hopefully people turn around to him in the long run.

[@Lowqualitysoundtrack]

two things I really like about cody, while still wishing amsa won, is he does it all colorblind bro literally has a handicap and hes still this much better than every other player. The other thing is what he said with "if you have a problem with me winning, come beat me" because thats how tournaments work, cody isnt going to throw just because people got tired of him winning

[@Scientist287]

Don’t worry hbox, I DO mind camping and I fcking hate your playstyle and wish puff would be removed, I thought it back then and I still think it now! ILL ALWAYS CHEER AGAINST YOU! …but I honestly like your personality and your takes on things like in this vid. You’re a good dude.

[@papadelta9485]

3:44 and especially a game thats been going for so long and the best character has been largely agreed upon for so long

[@HastyMang0]

7:29 Same thing happened to Leo tbh Like he was loved as #1 until people started to say "But what if he lost though😮" and then people wanted to see him lose and not succeed to let other people win And then, he fell recently and GUESS WHAT, now people want to see him back on top again, like more than ever.

[@jab1906]

Well said. What I like about Cody: dude plays a mean fox, grinds hard and (from what little I've interacted with him) is chill.

[@GarredHATES]

Ngl whenever Hbox is out, I tune out lol

[@KyletheCuber18]

I at first was gonna be like “bro really” but then I realized, me too lol

[@Wither1224]

I was also gonna be like bro really but usually hbox gets out around losers finals losers semis which is where I tune out

[@N0T1VE_]

Honestly me too maybe

[@Amaling]

lemme guess you were not a melee viewer and/or player before Hbox got big streaming ult?

[@JonathanScarlet]

@@Amaling or maybe he was, HBox is his draw, and without HBox it isn't as fun to watch anymore? He's not shitting on anyone else, per se, just saying that with his dog out of the race he isn't as interested. That happens. It's fine. That's relatively normal. Hell, even I start to tune out a bit on Melee once HBox is out. That's not a dig on Amsa, Cody, Mango, Zain, JMook, etc. That's not saying they're bad or cringe or even good or awesome. They're just not "his guy", and without "his guy" in it anymore it loses a certain level of appeal. Now, the guys who take that concept to the point of shitting on anyone still in that ISN'T "their guy"? Those guys are ridiculous and deserve to be mocked. By all means don't feel as interested if you don't have a favorite there anymore, but just because someone else is now at the top or hasn't become your new fave doesn't ever justify hating them for that alone.

[@Astronaughty03]

"Ripping him apart from every angle because we're bored." preach

[@btf_flotsam478]

This is why I've never tried to dive super deep into the Smash community. That toxic part of it that threw crabs is always going to be a part of it (and I suspect it isn't too far removed from the anti-Steve and anti-wobbling contingents), as opposed to communities like the speedrunning communities where stuff like this rarely happens and sorts itself out with constructive conversation.

[@sageryfrekenstein]

You should probably stop lumping all of these things together because no one is talking about viewing everything the way that you do, but if this was Flotsam's online journal then i'd get it

[@aarondimas7312]

I remember 2 years ago when the only players he couldn't beat were mang0 and zain I thought that he just looked like a smash player and disliked him from then on. Kinda fucked up but he's just straight up auraless

[@WeAreRisenzUPS]

Mango and Hbox both have a nice beard

[@omymomo]

THAT JAMES FRANCO MEME PIC HAD ME DYING

[@fr0stdr4ke95]

10:40 I think it has a lot to do with Underdog Mentality. Kinda like in that EmpLemon video a few years back (Yes, that video is 4 years old now). Smash players, more specifically Melee players were seen as lesser by the larger FGC. Less skilled, more immature, and incapable of being good at other games since they got top rank in a party game over a "real fighting game". Once someone they saw as an underdog is no longer the underdog and becomes the unstoppable force, they start to turn on them.

[@supermariogamer1757]

Random drama

[@KevinFought]

Internet 🙂

[@SALTYTOAD00]

Hey, at least it's not related to a pro player messaging kids on Discord.

[@nikkobird590]

​@@SALTYTOAD00real

[@KevinFought]

@@SALTYTOAD00 *cough cough* nairo

[@benmcgiggles7655]

Cody has never been one of my more favorite players, but he has absolutely earned everything he's achieved in melee, and I have nothing but respect for him as a player. And anyone who who attacks a human being because they play a video game in way that you don't like needs to grow up and live in the real world, it's really not that deep.

[@aaronjayadriano8363]

It's like that scene from Spider-Man where the Green Goblin explains how the people of New York don't want to see a hero, they want to see a hero fall.

[@KaitlynBurnellMath]

I think people didn't get as upset about Zain because Zain never won a bunch of tournaments in a row. He would typically win 2 tournaments in a row max. Cody won 6 offline events in a row. Not all of them were majors, but they all had a top 3 opponent like Zain or Jmook. It's really fascinating, because in 2022, the narrative was that "7 different people are winning majors, we'll never get anyone as dominant as Ken or Armada or Hbox ever again, all the top players are just going to trade tournaments from here on out." And then Cody in late 2023 through early 2024 legit had a Ken-level streak of dominance. He did the thing, the thing that people said was impossible in the post-Slippi era. It's actually very impressive.

[@mitchell3968]

Its just sad how in this community you cant be good without getting hate

[@hyperionf6357]

It's literally every community. People hate Lebron James. It is what it is.

[@178laaleros]

The community itself never impresses me always finding negativity and not trying to stay postive. I saw cody at a tournament before and dude is super awesome and nice. Trying to start shit with Cody is super stupid. Let Cody be cody.

[@sheep4558]

Literally got to talk to cody for a bit after genesis X and he was so chill and even joked around with us before he left, sad to see this happen to him out of all people…

[@trailertrash2147]

Crazy how people bash Cody for being boring, and then support Sonix

[@JustSomeDinosaurPerson]

Love you, Juan, but I don't care about characters or ever want people to put on some kind of show that isn't who they are for the sake of entertainment. As it is, I am sick of the manufactured theatrical drama that a lot of sports have become these days. Let Cody be whoever he wants to be. Right now he is the one at the precipice and it is everyone else's job to catch up and try and snatch his spot on merit. I want to see phenomenal play and that's all. People want manufactured drama they can go watch wrestling or F1's Drive to Survive.

[@simian4752]

Nah zain never got this ammount of hate. People can think for themselves, fuck doing shit like banning everyone in jmooks chat cause the mook styled on you for one friendlies session.

[@plaush3951]

there is a video that documented how Cody got to this point, just wish I didn't forget it 😭😭

[@federicocostas9533]

I’m glad I watched the 2 hour Cody documentary before his insane Battle of BC 6 and seeing the greatness is amazing. We got to appreciate greatness when we have it

[@SamiJ1508]

Button remapping being an issue for some melee players is really ridiculous. Nearly All modern games have button remapping. I sort of understand the issue with notches but obviously if you're going to bend noches then you need to enforce analog control sticks for all controllers which means the box conttoller would have to change. One of the issues is that fox is too good and making controllers good enough to control him properly makes him overpowered there is a solution we could use... Pal Nerfs him in a decent way. Mostly gets rid of his ridiculous recovery and makes him a proper glass Cannon. That Nerf to Fox is still a net buff to any other top tier that gets nerfed. Plus buffed yoshi

[@thenecessitarian]

What could possibly be boring about consistently beating everyone in the world over and over again despite their best efforts to beat you? What other discipline in life disrespects it's greatest masters like that?

[@kquindarlewisfyindujbar]

you sound so goofy lmao.

[@PrestoJacobson]

BJJ?

[@thenecessitarian]

@@kquindarlewisfyindujbar what?

[@Goobywoobygoo]

Is the drama about how he doesn’t have a chin??

[@Tselel]

I kind of get it, just because Melee itself is an underdog esport. So when a whole community identifies with that underdog identity; it naturally paints a consistent rank 1 as a villain, or at the very least a final boss to overcome. It's not right or cool. But I get it.

[@ilovenoobs233]

I mean there was no ranking back then, but I thought KEN was the first person to be #1 with a solo character, or am I missing something?

[@ryanleninfan1337]

there were solo characters as #1 but not fox

[@j0rd0]

Cody just kind if acts like a nerd idk i think his personality turns people off tbh he has redditor energy

[@jacobthebatchbandit3092]

That pressure at 0:27 was gorgeous

[@HsmAsTa]

melee community slowly killing itself .. yay keep it up guys reminds me of why i don't actively follow the scene anymore IRL it's best community, but online it's the worst.. jeez Let's go Cody btw

[@Whalordius]

7:50 i am this homie. Watched myself eclipse a whole gaming club in literally every game, even ones i never played. Sucked ass because everyone cheered against me. They remembered my handful of losses over who i was and what i did.

[@chief664]

Anthor problem I think is that online hardly anyone says anything positive on the internet and when they do it all gets submerged in the endless swirl pool of b*tching and moaning that goes on online

[@GradedGems]

Great video. Transcends the melee bubble since its totally applicable to how the real world works :)

[@SamiJ1508]

One thing that's weird about Zain being ranked one is that it was connected to the implosion at the end of 2022. I think that just distracted from it a little bit

[@LuckyHamburger]

It might be a stretch, but Kuroda is pretty much always considered the best sf3 player and he absolutely did not main chun or yun.

[@zvjezdanveselinovic5765]

Preach, HungryBox

[@theSars]

the emplemon video really brings this point back to talk every time

[@icegod4849]

I love being both an Hbox and Mang0 fan because I get to see the two very different styles of opinion.

[@PrincePrinplup394]

Someone actually did make a documentary on Cody's performance throughout Melee, I think you should check it out. Would give everyone that perspective of what he endured to make to where he is now.

[@austinmoon2626]

i like watching spacies and have always liked cody's sets

[@RoundedWaffle]

Dax Shepard has said that we are inherently storytellers and the fall is the last story to tell when somebody is at the top (we also love the redemption after the fall)

[@ShonFPS]

Cody just doesn't have a personality, or at least a publicly known one. aMSa is incredibly lovable, always smiling, plays a weird character and the only Japanese player. mang0 is the washed up king who people want to see return to the top. Hbox is an OG and is the direct oppostion to the fox 20xx meta, he also plays way less lame than 5+ years ago hbox. I would say the same about Zain as Cody, hes just not interesting to me as a viewer, not his play but himself.

[@sebastiansullivan4770]

His personality is that of a winner. Focused and determined above all else in the face of impossible trials and difficulties. He also is very salty lol. But it seems like his mentality in that regard has improved a lot.

[@christheophilus7154]

​@sebastiansullivan4770 i agree, cody has the silent killer mentality, he talks on the sticks. at one point he tried to be the heel, like an american leffen and it wasn't working out for him gameplay wise or popularity wise.

[@scrapecity]

This is a dope video. Appreciate it.

[@ErroTheCube]

Another small thing to concider is how we humans react to other peoples feelings. If you see a player constantly losing to another Cody, then you start seeing frustration or sadness both before and after the matches. And for some, if not most, watchers that feeling reaches us as well and we start pointing fingers at Cody for making player X sad, angry or wanting to give up their carrier. The whole thing feels so unnecessary but it feels like it happens to everyone in different capacities once they get to the top :/

[@MarcGoncalis-gb9pb]

You are right with most of the stuff, but to round it a little bit, I think people just have more tolerance to someone who is always winning and is always on the spotlight when he has an engaging personality or a more spectacular playstyle. That's the case with Mango, Zain and future Moky

[@ChronoSquare]

The last time I went to a Smash Melee tournament, little Hungry box would've still been a pre teen... Good Lord where has the time gone

[@happymonkeyfish]

I'm actually jealous I was too young to experience the fresh Melee scene when it was still a game of discovery

[@ChronoSquare]

@@happymonkeyfish when we all thought Brawl was gonna be the way forward, before we all got some months' time to play it... 😂

[@zachariemelanson485]

Even though it was mentionned in the video, I still don't think people understand how wild it is that no one in over 20 years had been able to bring the "undisputed best character in the game" to the #1 spot. Not only is Fox on top of the tier list, but he's the most played character. I'm not saying Fox shouldn't be #1 on the tier list, but it should at least be up for debate if you look at the history of top level play. Hats off to Cody for pulling it off.

[@Matpit18]

The thing about wanting to see the guy on top fall could absolutely be true. If the cartoons/animes that a lot of these haters probably grew up with taught them anything, it’s that their favorite underdog character winning over the top dog is entertaining. Except these top players aren’t fictional characters written for a cartoon/anime. These are real people who are doing this sh** for a living.

[@piodo7885]

People like the journey of someone trying to succeed, not when they finally made it and become successful.

[@DtrJr]

Leo is a big example of this now but to a lesser extent on the amount of hate but not everyone misses him

[@ZbNimble]

It's true what they say, figure out who you are before you become famous. When you know who you are, neither insults nor praise can touch you.

[@NabaniSaa]

It's almost as if most of the Melee fanbase are kids/haven't matured and don't/can't understand the meaning of words to other people cause they haven't gotten bullied enough or aren't empathetic enough to imagine themselves in the shoes of people they put down online.

[@mymyscellany]

Melee players aren't kids. They're mostly in their late 20s

[@MarioSMG64]

Chaler’s video on Zain and Cody was very enlightening.

[@mynamejot8623]

Hbox discovers reddit is, always has been and always will be a cesspool

[@sephirotten2413]

This is why the smash community gets laugh at alot, be the bigger man. We all can have opinions and stuff we dont agree with but some of the things that been going on for years needs to stop. Think before you speak, sounds easy but most people here dont. But cody has the right to be here he is today like anyone of you if you try hard enough. Sure you have a favorite smash player that you want them to win but its not always gonna happen, after all thats what makes a community, each of you getting better at the game, training each other to be the best. I love smash bros and always will but we need to stop with all this hate, like hating the player instead of the character or if someone wins and you hate it that they won and death threats. Come on smash community you can be better.

[@LilypadOW]

unrelated but I hate that there is so many numbers on screen I don’t know the meaning of.. could someone explain please