The Most Broken Move in Melee

With just a few seconds left on the clock, Super Smash Con 2023 came down to a gamble from ‪@hungrybox‬ to bet on a bracket reset. But, remarkably, this all-or-nothing rest missed. By a single frame.
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#SSC2023 #Hungrybox #Zain #turndownforwalt #tdfw #SuperSmashBrosMelee #SuperSmashMelee #SSBM

[@hungrybox]

walt it was a good video but did you have to show me missing the rest 112 times

[@plateofsashimi]

yes

[@KANYEREST135]

he had to dood 😢

[@jorgebarreraahumada8482]

Yes

[@turndownforwalt]

Sorry I had to make sure it was seen

[@cestandmuni3849]

LOL love you hbox

[@ElectricWindGirlFriend]

thank god bowser's down smash is getting its own video. that guy has had it too good for too long.

[@stellaanderson570]

Hello PowerPoint man :D

[@ElectricWindGirlFriend]

oh also this is a banger. extremely common TDFW W

[@SorenRoberts]

PowerPoint man

[@NETIERRAS]

ppp man is a good man

[@plabcentral630]

Lol just came from your vid and I said some sus shit my b

[@Eichro]

i like how he's not even pretending the sponsored game is good, the selling point is "i get paid so pls help a bro out"

[@ihavepissinmybrain]

I’m honestly surprised they even approved the way he advertised their game lmao

[@user-to9ge8ii9n]

Tbh, I skipped ahead, but your comments made me rewind to watch. So. Excellent ad, great word of mouth? ❤

[@mfw9902]

any video with a trash sponsor like that is getting an auto dislike from me

[@ihavepissinmybrain]

@@mfw9902 That’s not fair. Look, sponsors pay loads of money compared to ad revenue. If you were in his position and were offered thousands of dollars just to literally say “play this game,” you’d do it in a heartbeat too.

[@ripjawxx]

@@mfw9902it’s how ppl make livings bruh

[@Sappysappster]

10:39 semi related but I really like Hungrybox's fistbump here like his face doesn't say "UGH I lost." or "GODDAMNIT FUCK" it says "Welp lmao ggwp" if you get what I mean

[@Narcan42]

It’s the “I love this game but this game f’n blows”

[@Sappysappster]

@@Narcan42 exactly bruh I love it cuz I've had that same feeling

[@jongyon7192p]

i once met hbox at a grocery store. He gave me a fistbump and a thank you for being a fan of melee. At the front, he forgot to pay, and when they called him out, he wasn't like "UGH I lost" or "GODDAMMIT FUCK". He just apologized and accepted his mistake

[@Pal42_]

@@jongyon7192p the good ending

[@ryanhoang1123]

@@jongyon7192p is this a twist on the old i know a hbox story from pre crab era?

[@Ihadtochangemyusername]

9:15 is cool seeing hboxs inputs. It’s kinda cool that he’s basically dash dancing in the air? With puffs drift he swings in and out like any grounded DD

[@SassInYourClass]

obligatory “if you’re not frame perfect, 99 times out of 100, you’re not good enough”

[@Ihadtochangemyusername]

7:36 blows my mind - I thought I kinda understood about like DI mixups and guaranteed follow ups… I didn’t! I totally didnt comprehend what people meant when they say 50/50 or RPS for this that it’s literally “here are the options I can do as marth against this character at this percent -> here are the di options puff has for specific counterplay -> evidence based (option tree) reaction tech chase”

[@Ihadtochangemyusername]

I’d never seen the analog stick-DI calculator like that graphic before

[@blackstar_850]

if I lost a game 5 last stock timeout situation to being a single frame early with my move I would physically Die

[@kylespevak6781]

He was losing far before that

[@acycle2124]

@@kylespevak6781not really, but he would have won if the frame didnt skip, so he lost because of that

[@IGP]

THE EDITING

[@Cxlvin.]

woah, i didnt know you watched melee.

[@Valentinesdayghost]

IGP?! literally everyone who sees this comment

[@cdntl]

looks like meleestats editing

[@SorenRoberts]

For real

[@jongyon7192p]

what's the weird distorting shockwave looking thing? People keep using it

[@carbonation10317]

I enjoyed the “this game sucks but I need the money” vibe to the sponsor. I wish all creators did it this way

[@XnkxoKos]

I don't know if sponsers particularly want to pay someone to shit on their product

[@something8127]

He said on their Twitter that he wasn't paid for this sponsor for breaking the contract

[@ediot1426]

​@@XnkxoKosdon't sell shit and you won't get shit on for it, weird how that works out

[@XnkxoKos]

@@ediot1426 What is this even responding to? Make shit or something good, that doesn't change that no sponsor uses their marketing budget to get less sales.

[@XnkxoKos]

@@ediot1426 You can get shit on for any number of reasons outside of quality, but that has nothing to do with sponsors incentive on using their marketing budget for, you know, marketing.

[@Birdsflight44]

This feels like when they first teach Gohan how to even see the the non-Earthlings battle the Z-Fighters

[@jaytea6516]

I can't stop laughing at HB screaming samples

[@ragxhausted]

You're telling me that we were THIS close to the single most powerful, cataclysmic pop-off the world had ever seen?? Also, another fantastic video Walt!

[@bawbehh]

Eh would have just been a bracket reset, only a mild hbox popoff

[@haara.tomato]

I'm telling my kids this was the cuban missile crisis

[@danielbalderramos3890]

Underrated comment

[@krusher181]

No I think he would have reset the bracket He had to win 2 sets, Walt left that out….

[@wildrussiansnake8978]

Underrated comment 💀​@@haara.tomato

[@Orciwan548]

I’ve never played or really watched melee but it’s crazy how this game works. How precise the players are too like I can’t tell what’s going on for a lot of it just someone gets hit but there’s so much more videos like this are great.

[@chillyxerochill4815]

I coughed out cookie crumbs each time hbox popped off and now the driver’s seat is completely covered. Lovely video!

[@noobiesensei6281]

Please tell me you were parked.

[@OkieDokieSmokie]

@@noobiesensei6281probably has youtube premium. you can queue up videos and play them with your screen off, basically just podcasts with extra steps.

[@protocetid]

@@noobiesensei6281they can’t, they’re currently sitting in jail

[@TheUnd3rd0g]

13min of edging viewers for a rest is insane

[@bagofsteel9152]

Hbox got robbed. He had the better play with very intentional inputs and it's such a disappointment to hear the commentators not recognize that. Zain didn't calculate that, but was extraordinarily lucky. At least losses like those don't feel that bad. Still a great match and if it had to end that way then it really ended pretty evenly.

[@projectalpha22_va]

That ad was the realist shit ever done and done get that bread.

[@lamMeTV]

Every great game needs some randomness. Melee's jank is a feature

[@mr.bubbles4439]

Chess

[@ghoulbuster1]

Gambling is a feature 😂

[@lordtraxroy]

​@@mr.bubbles4439 en passant

[@vyor8837]

​@@lordtraxroy isn't random

[@lordtraxroy]

@@vyor8837 but it is a glitch in chess

[@blankedout1862]

0:57 love the soundsmith reference

[@Angelofdeth20]

Lost by 1 frame? That REALLY SUCKS. That’s robbery right there!

[@ByrneBaby]

Oh my god, what a banger of a video. Ty for going so hard on your content, Walt, it never goes unnoticed 🔥🔥🔥

[@SorenRoberts]

God I love high quality analysis of popular competitive video games

[@julian1000]

7:20 is a good example where being able to see stick position from peeking controllers gives advantage

[@equinox3861]

You forgot Z drop is frame 1.

[@lettuce1626]

As someone who isnt that big into the smash scene This is insane, Im watching this guy talk about smash like its chess over here. He had a whole list on how a jigglypuff can cancel a specific combo from marth and were talking about a pattern thats probably gonna last seconds And dont even get me started on all the technical words i dont understand

[@PlayMadness]

It's a good thing Hbox missed that rest tbh. The nuclear levels of energy that would have been released by the ensuing popoff would have leveled everything in a twelve mile radius.

[@RipleySawzen]

In an alternate reality, we're all covered in an inch of dust and the sky is grey.

[@ramaicatseye]

6:07 why is the video corrupted here?

[@no834jre]

I may be wrong, but I believe it is due to a process called Interpolation. Basically, interpolation is when an ai is used to generate more frames on a video. Smash bros runs at 60 frames per second, so if the regular footage was slowed down, it would look choppy like a slideshow. However, with interpolation an ai was able to generate more frames for when the video is slowed. Unfortunately, interpolation's biggest problem is that the new images it generates are extremely fucked up looking, because it is done with ai. This is why if you pause the video during interpolated segments, things are clipping or blurry or just look bad. An ai attempted to create new frames, but it obviously does not understand how to make them look perfect. turndownforwalt has two options for slowed down segments due to smash melee running at 60 fps. Either it looks like a powerpoint slideshow, or it looks corrupted but smoother fps via interpolation. Neither option is perfect, but most audience members would prefer a smoother video, even if it looks corrupted. Thus, interpolation was chosen

[@ramaicatseye]

@@no834jre Hey, thank you. Long explanations are appreciated by me.

[@no834jre]

np @@ramaicatseye

[@svdtrumpet]

Wait a sec. Who did the Herb Alpert cover with Mario soundfonts at 2:13? You can't just slip that in there and not expect someone to wonder!

[@emanwonkon2205]

I literally know nothing about melee. I literally learned nothing except that if he jumped a frame earlier he wouldve won (somehow)

[@DoctorSwellman]

This is some really good editing walt. Reminds me of Melee Moments' style, which is a really really good thing. Loved the video

[@mr.nobody9516]

Cool video but the ai frame interpolation just looks awful when used in this video

[@modelvp2405]

As someone who knows next to nothing about the technical side of smash, I understood about 12% of the words in this video. Good video tho. 10/10

[@cabininthewoods1]

Loved hearing the Lethal League Blaze soundtrack in a few spots here, this video was so good 😌

[@gamehero4211]

At 7:53 you said you pulled up Zains inputs? How do you gain access to this? I feel it would be very beneficial for someone wanting to learn more to know how to get these input recordings

[@LealFireball]

Tournament setups for these big events are often connected to a pc running slippi which can collect the input data and make a match replay out of it, which you can search in their database and see the replay and inputs on your pc via slippi. Though to be honest I'm not sure if these replays in in-person tournaments go directly into the slippi database or if they have to be released.

[@simanolastname2399]

@@LealFireball Local games have to be released AFAIK. Ranked games are in a database though since Fizzi has released files before for the Lunar Melee channel.

[@codyross7628]

Oh no, the mobile games got to walt

[@rannynihilius8481]

Most painful ending to a set last year.

[@tiaraguy7705]

You know, Hbox kinda has Mango vibes at this point. Fan base and content might be a little different but you can never count him out fully. He might just go on a run and make you remember that this guy is called clutchbox for a reason, he might buster out sometimes but when he's on a run it's pretty insane to watch because he goes for some insane gambles.

[@hunga.b]

the mango glazing is crazy with this community lol

[@tiaraguy7705]

@@hunga.b it's genuinely not that deep, I like both players but I barely even watch much melee now. But both have done a lot for the scene.

[@ivymuncher]

@@hunga.b i mean if youre a top player in the scene for like that long you deserve it at this point lmaoaoaoao

[@SRM13]

@@hunga.bwhy are you so obsessed with a game you don’t like Lmfao

[@psymar]

Plus he just discovered his custom Phob controller wasn't actually broken after all so look out

[@pheoRixp1]

Blue waffles Also wow I didn't know all that I appreciate the box's up tilt a lot more

[@randomguy8107]

I just thought about something : Ultimate Rest is f2-4 active, which means Hbox’s Ultimate detox might help him on that front

[@tysonjame9637]

I’m still very new to all of melee how did Walt get the control schemes when he was talking about Hgod stick jumping and Zains possible ASDI down?

[@Jinju___]

Because turndownforwalt is simply an alter-ego for masahiro sakurai

[@theSato]

at 2:48, why is the Super Smash Con 2023 match blacked out? Looked it up myself and dont see anything bad there?

[@DerkDurski]

It's the set this video is about

[@Gabriel64468]

Just because its what the Video is about, I assume.

[@eisenhead]

what did you use to make the shaders in some of the melee fottage look so good? is it some mod or post processing effect? loved the vid btw

[@KeyboardKlutz_0]

So uh... was that opening a reference to SoundSmith or...?

[@Moss_Dude]

How?

[@DoofXMachina]

Nah. Soundsmith references this guy

[@smokedem]

Great content and style as always… but I really hope the optical flow interpolation was just an experiment and not the planned interpolation method going forwards ☺️

[@samsr2887]

glad im not the only one who really did not like that

[@nodisco8042]

The what?

[@JuniperLx]

⁠@@nodisco8042I think he’s talking about a certain type of frame interpolation. Iirc, frame interpolation is when a computer finds the image that is the “best fit” between two frames of a video. This can be done to make a video feel more smooth by kinda upping the frame-rate, but can result in distortion and the timing of animations feeling off. You can see them used most in this video during the slow-motion bits to make them less choppy but it also ends up with some pretty nasty distortion

[@skylo706]

I stopped melee a year ago to try tekken and stuff. When I came back 2 weeks ago, because yt recommended me a melee essay, I immediately figured out that melee feels right and like home. I didn't have THIS much fun with the other games compared to melee honestly

[@robastergaming6074]

you don't like the sponsor, do you

[@pubjubz]

Of course he doesn’t. It’s hot trash

[@BoBoN4Uto]

Yeah, he puts it after a cliffhanger. Of course, everyone will skip it😂

[@GmetrixTutorialEsp]

@@BoBoN4Utowhy I don’t like about it is that’s just a generic ad like with the numbers and then candy crush.

[@burby-thomas]

"I'm just here, so i dont get fined"😂

[@jaltgelt1644]

I’m just glad I was the first to mention that this was close enough for “Turndownforwalt”.

[@silvesta5027]

This video is really well edited but it could’ve easily been half the length

[@NyrinTriball]

"It's bullshit, but it's OUR bullshit" I have a lot more respect for people that get this with whatever game they're playing. Sometimes, things are bullshit, and that's what makes it fun, as said in the end.

[@raddrew42]

the multiple cutaways to the pop off into irl rest made me chuckle

[@SleepyBrady]

man as an Hbox fan I would have loved to see him win but Zain is just so goddamn good and lucky too. This was a hype set and Zain is an awesome player. Amazing

[@bkebradley]

Was that a program used to show when moves KO or was that a custom graphic?

[@applesaltlive]

how do you get dolphin replays for tournament sets?

[@applesaltlive]

or do you just recreate them?

[@saxeladude]

As an anti stalling rule would it be a bad Idea to have games that go to time determine winner by stage advantage before dmg percents where the player on or above stage wins (not including ledge), damage is only considered if both players have the same stage positioning (so edge guarding is determined by percent not distance to the stage). Idk myself I see reasons why it could do well or poorly including players in tumble saved by the bell still lose. but it also encourages defensive play and discourages edge guards. Though the caveat of only when both players are have unequal stage advantage means that if both players are on stage in the last minute the strategy is to force the opponent off stage. Also characters that have struggling recoveries are buffed no longer needing to go deep against aerial characters at lower percents. These factors could make it better or worse what's your thoughts?

[@TheGrandOptimst1]

Dude how do you make all these sick ass graphics for the videos?

[@BrandonNop-r7l]

This would’ve been the best match the rest wouldve been awesome but he was lucky because hitboxes saved him. Awesome analysis dude.

[@vancantorus]

That popoff scream is like chinese water torture i kept on expecting it but i never knew when it would come

[@sagragoth1]

5:45 i don't know what effect you used to make the slowdown on this but please don't do it again, i had a lot of trouble focusing on what you were saying with those weird nightmare jigglypuff motions

[@sagragoth1]

anyway thank you for the video walt,0

[@TheOmniBlade]

Now this is the content I love getting clickbaited on

[@msnGyudon]

The video is great but man the AI slowmo doesn't look goot at all, hope you can find a better way to slowdown footage for future videos

[@knowthestatuskuo1]

Uptilt breakdown is the exact type of melee content that gets me hyped up

[@sickteej]

The first 1.07 of the video is edited so fucking well. I had to pause and comment this before I continued watching. Great work

[@Kompyyy]

The amount of shade in this video is crazy.

[@Moises46441]

How exactly can you pull off all that controller data and the different angles of replays?

[@clap_lmao]

bro took 90% of the video to get to the point

[@Foggen]

The interpolated slow-mo is going bonkers

[@jahridin]

I guess you're confusing ASDI down and crouch cancel. If it knocks down, then you cannot ASDI down (besides to amsah tech/ floor hug). Funny video nonetheless !

[@TokyoXtreme]

As someone unfamiliar with Melee, I'm still not sure who won or lost. Was it Jigglypuff or the Castlevania dude?

[@morri2087]

thank you so much for making such high quality melee content. genuinely i enjoy each and every one of your videos

[@kuznamortis9337]

I was there in person for that and man was that a good tournament to be at

[@JovialSkunk]

Weird bug. Their boxes were on top of each other.

[@9onRichter]

Shoutout to the lethal league blaze music playing in the background

[@CudChewingCattle]

"Melee is bullshit but it's OUR bullshit." Sums up my experience spending 6hrs to download slippi and get my first game against a dude with invulnerability hacks who couldn't even Waveland lmfao. Also the game froze every time he threw me offstage and resumed when I was on halo platform 😂

[@bugcatcherharold5315]

Rest is such a weird move. It's the probably only move in any fighting game that is commonly unsafe on /kill./

[@_ben_miller]

Shine, peach dsmash, Falco dair are also pretty broken

[@MrMinewarp]

Damn 1 frame is insane!

[@chichachang303]

Hey man, it was a gamble on a difficult one frame link, when he was a whole stock behind, that part doesn’t seem broken to me

[@GGoofymonkey]

I watched this entire video and I don’t even own a gamecube

[@J0J0Jetz]

Oh nice! just discovered your channel and watching this video bc your content is goated and I randomly see my vid shouted out WHATTTT. lol. great vid and you have a new sub!

[@prolazoi774]

you're killing it with the videos walter

[@hatsuneblacktrousers]

0:25 WOMBLY COMBLY

[@matthewb9981]

The editing in this video is next fucking level

[@Nikkerman]

Interesting, I always though this one was because of the fair hurtbox shifting, guess I was wrong

[@definitelydoctorproctor]

If I could edit this well I wouldn’t even care that I hate editing

[@deemz312]

I have zero idea what you were saying or what it means. But what an enjoyable fight that was

[@mounne13]

This is the diago parry of smash

[@goora1866]

The Lethal League Blaze music

[@dirtsquids9854]

My question. If jmook was the puff and Zain was charging neutral b to punish the missed rest, could he have amsah teched it and lived ? Great video !

[@mewdancing]

He got sent upwards diagonally, so no

[@josephwilliams1915]

I have a buddy that mains jiggly puff. I happen to rotate between zero suit samus, DK, and Ganon as my mains. Regardless of who i play, that guy is able to hit me with rest like 90% of the time. I've also watched him squad wipe people online with rest. I have no idea why doesn't play smash in the pro leagues. I'd say i'm decent smash player. I migjt be able place top 3 in a local tournament. But that guy is leagues beyond my skill level.

[@MonkeGeek]

Game and Watch will a frame 4 option. Game and Watch is top 3 in the game. BanG&W

[@TylerClibbon]

amazing, please more of this

[@NicolasMuñoz-p8g]

As a puff lover, it really hurt seeing hbox missing the rest. Hopefully he will be close again to winning a tournament. It will happen, i know it will, and he will win. We just have to wait...

[@johnwesolowski1134]

such a great breakdown of what happened

[@sleepynuigurumiamalgamation]

odd video title but good vid

[@tree2992]

I'd recognize Phraser's editing style anywhere!

[@nextkestrel]

Great video!

[@killercore007]

Imagine if GW up b was frame 1 in Smash Ult

[@TheXeeman]

ive never played melee and have no idea whats going on but it is interesting nonetheless

[@p0tt0man]

Lmao how tf you get those angles MAN