Let's Talk About The End Of FAANG

[@rand0mtv660]

All of that bean bags, pet friendly, foosball, team building "best place to work" stuff I was impressed when I was like 18. Now that I'm a bit older, I really couldn't care less about that crap. Give me a nice environment where I can learn, advance, work on interesting projects and work with decent people and that's all I care about. I don't want to spend 12 hours a day at the office just because it has "perks". I want to learn and get shit done, that's it.

[@anyadatzaklatszjutub]

plus all that "best place to work" stuff is expensive... so how about you give me some extra $$$ and I'll be happy to spend it on my own, thanks!

[@boev999]

All of that "give me a nice environment where I can learn, advance, work on interesting projects and work with decent people" was great when I was 28. Now that I'm a bit older, just pay me my salary and I'll see you on Monday.

[@Fernando-ry5qt]

@@boev999 All that "just pay me my salary and I'll see you on Monday." was great when I was 30, now that I'm a bit older, I crave the non-boring projects regardless of a slighter lower pay, cause I do that shit 40 hrs a week and it sucks if it totally lacks any meaning or fun.

[@ducksoop.x]

@@boev999 I'm 26 and I already feel what you do 100% lmao.

[@stoogel]

@@Fernando-ry5qt Oof, not in management yet?

[@shawnweddle3002]

I don’t even want to be rich. I just want to code and make more than I do delivering pizza.

[@stefanosgiannakis7151]

💪

[@anricoj1]

I worked in a Deli Department for almost 6 years. Worked there while I was in school and coded on my lunch breaks. You got this 🤘🏻

[@unknownd3v]

I totally agree, a normal well paid job and a normal life, that's it.

[@canman7773]

No no no. That mindset is what will make employers pay less for programmers. Do not discount the skill of programming.

[@andresmillsgallego814]

So much this....I am older also, so I value my time more than I value money. Obviously we all need to make a living, but I value work life balance and a positive work environment above all else.

[@ThePrimeagen]

netfilx hasn't laid any engineers off ;)

[@ToddDunning]

Those of us who have been doing this for over 25 years have seen multiple booms and busts. Don’t even give it a second thought, everyone needs tech and it doesn’t matter what companies are supplying it.

[@nate_codes]

I really like the nod to full-stack engineers becoming more fundamental to flexible feature teams. I've definitely seen a lot more of that in the past few years and generally to great effect. Iteration can be *much* quicker and simpler when there's less cross-team communication required to test, build, and pivot.

[@TerriTerriHotSauce]

They get paid less than specialized front end or back end engineers though. They know more but get paid less

[@Rust_Rust_Rust]

@@TerriTerriHotSauce proof?

[@MFDoomguy21]

@@Rust_Rust_Rust I checked out Glassdoor, specifically Full Stack and Front End engineers working in NYC. Front End earns 133K and Full Stack earns 126K Mind you these are estimated averages pulled from September of last year.

[@braiinworms]

Hey i know you

[@figmentfire]

There was no such thing as FAANG when I started building websites, I just loved doing it, it wasn't about working in a trendy company, it was about doing something I loved and getting paid for it.

[@bobbyraduloff]

Im graduating this year and I feel like I’ve missed the golden age of being a junior dev.

[@JenkzRage]

Realistically though, the FAANG companies CAN afford to pay all of these insane salaries, and many are making record profits. The reason for these layoffs is down to pressure from shareholders, as their perception is that these companies are spending too much and not prioritising share value (as well as inflation rates making it more expensive to borrow money). Hence why share prices are going UP post layoff announcements, and the very companies issuing massive layoffs also buying back billions worth of their own stock. If they can afford to spend billions to boost their own share value, they can afford to spend it on salary and fancy office spaces etc.

[@codetothemoon]

Great perspective Theo! I had a very similar shift in mindset around the same time as you, and quit my FAANG job. However, I don’t think the depressed stock prices are a good reason to avoid them right now - in fact it’s probably the perfect time to accept an offer (not that many offers are being handed out at the moment)

[@george0t]

What I find weird is that multiple FAANG companies reached out to me exactly during that time when COVID was going rampant, with expedited interview processes, complete relocation packages and everything. I wonder if engineers were fleeing these places at the time and the companies just started proactively looking for replacements or something...

[@t3dotgg]

More that interviews got really cheap because you didn't have to fly people out to do them

[@luizfcavalcanti]

There is a trend lately of people who worked on these companies saying it's not worth it... right, maybe, but you had the opportunity to experience it. It's the same as a rich person arguing that money doesn't make you happy. I don't know if this is a coping mechanism for people laid off or lack of perspective. If it sucks for those who where let go, imagine how much worse it is right now for those who were still trying to enter the market... yes you can dedicate yourself more, but that's the crux of it, suddenly it became harder for everyone and even more to those who didn't have an opportunity yet.

[@lovenangelodayola1826]

I get you bro

[@eruigu]

I agree. As a mid-level engineer who worked in a startup and was actively seeking to work at FAANG for all the aforementioned perks and company, it’s sucks that the barrier to entry just increased significantly. It’s an experience I def wanted

[@bravethomasyt]

Most FAANG companies (if not all) still have more engineers post-COVID and post-layoffs than before COVID. The COVID tech boom and subsequent crash after normality returned is the main reason for the layoffs.

[@prestonrasmussen1758]

Not only just pre-Covid, but Google still has 22,000 more employees now than it did a year ago. Most of the FANG companies similarly hired more during 2022 than they laid off. Also it’s important to remember that tech companies aren’t all engineers, and that generally engineers will be a third to a quarter of the staff. From what I’ve seen, it looks like there are a lot more non-engineers getting laid off at these companies

[@AD-wg8ik]

The stock flew up abnormally high during the pandemic. Now that it’s correcting itself people think it’s the end of the world. It was never suppose to fly up that high to begin with.

[@PiroKUSS]

Stock illiterate people at their finest.

[@signoalaris333]

It is so hard to concentrate when that middle lock of hair is swaying back and forth...

[@Gahlfe123]

Didn't notice till now, now I can't stop focusing on it 😂😂

[@ShaharHarshuv]

Great talk. Your analysis of the reality from the engineer perspective really opened my eyes, and hopefully I'll be able to make better decisions because of it. Thanks for that

[@devagr]

Much needed video

[@ReactWala]

Hey bro ! How are you 😍

[@andythedishwasher1117]

Tbh, I'm mainly bummed because I initially got into coding because I was concerned with how much power FAANG was accumulating and felt like familiarizing myself with a skill set that could help me contribute to their downfall. Now it pretty much is happening without my intervention and I'm just getting trampled by the stampede of laid off senior devs flooding the market spaces I was about to target.

[@hanes2]

Back in the day, way before Microsoft and Apple. The competition was basically to doing research at IBM or AT&T.

[@ayodejibakare9730]

That was completely insightful.

[@Fanaro]

It's also worth mentioning that their revenue is still either ok or growing. At any rate, I'm actually happier that desire for software jobs is now more spread out, diversity in jobs seems much more interesting to me.

[@justindion4394]

When comparing to other career fields Theo's analysis sounds a bit tone deaf. Where else can the smart and talented expect to receive the perks and comp of FAANG? Even at 250k you are about in the 1% of post-college earners. If you want to make an impact, working for FAANG still carries a ton of weight when applying to startups. If you really want impact go there. Again, this is next to impossible to be making 6 figures shortly out of college and having a "real impact". You can never expect to have an impact at one of the big 4 accounting firms either.

[@thanhdaon]

Thank you about the content. I have a question, but sorry it's not quite relate to your content. Where did you buy your shirt? :D

[@lutfiikbalmajid]

All i want is just a chance to working in overseas. I am still learning and practice, hoping that someday my dreams will come true

[@Zagoorland]

I never wanted to work in a FAANG type of a company. Seems pretty terrifying to work as an engineer when you have to be literally the best around thousands of super talented people wanting your position. Seems super stresfull

[@arandompersonontheinternet7591]

Important thing that I say to myself everyday - work is not your friend

[@Rise9192Against]

Thank you Theo. Now excuse me while I cry myself to sleep tonight. 😭

[@danvilela]

Don't worry, it is just a shift in the mindset. Instead of desiring to work at google, you might be happy on a small startup that actually pays better and you have a better life there where you are more valued.

[@mehulsharmamat]

Never applied to FAANG, applied to one ~big corp because of remote+async. Hopefully I can stay this way without ever having to have FAANG on my resume so people can believe me. PS. Didn't apply because I don't like overworking. In indie (where I'm from) I've heard horror stories from FAANG people, most of them join so they can leave with a better TC in their second, more relaxed job.

[@Markus-iq4sm]

Keep informing us

[@stoogel]

I've heard this especially about Amazon. It's a bit easier to get in there than the others, but they work you hard and it sucks. After like a year you have them on your resume and you'll have an easier time.

[@AnirudhIsOnline]

Great video ✨

[@SeattleSpursFan1882]

I don't think it was a lie when you were initially told the dream. It was simply a path presented to folks like yourself who had an incredible opportunity in that moment. Kudos to all who followed and realized that dream. However, paths aren't linear, they are cyclical and we as a society haven't been good at presenting ideas in full context. I guess in that light it was a lie simply because the fallout aspects of the cycle aren't made potentials in the initial thought. With all that in mind, now is the time to realize that it's okay to jump off even if it feels like one has been pushed off. Change is the only constant and IT suffers from peaks and troughs; experience teaches us when to jump from one thing to another when the aspects of change become ripe enough to create an animation of changing successes.

[@samu350]

Before the crysis in Venezuela, you'd have your parents tell you "You get that college degree, and start working in the industry now!". Engineers would make a really considerable income, but now that's gone, inflation rates and the economical crysis killed everything, they're paid as much as 50$ a month. My lesson? Nothing lasts forever, live your life but think ahead, be resourceful, and always stay up to date as an engineer.

[@Guergeiro]

Well, I don't think stock options should be accounted for salary and should instead be thought of as bonus. I thought you were not allowed to sell the stocks while working at said FAANG, because of inside trading and stuff? If so, the bonus is not realised until you actually leave the company, so the annual income for an engineer wouldn't change when stocks are up or down. Unless they allow for some "exit points", where you are allowed to sell stock while keeping working there and not have issues with inside trading.

[@javajoint]

What is very common is that you vest a certain % each year. My own experience when I worked at AOL was 1/4 of my stock would vest each year - I was not in upper management, so I did not have restrictions as to when I could sell.

[@Guergeiro]

@@javajoint I see. Thanks for the inside info.

[@plexq]

I mean, that’s just not how it works. It’s considered part of total compensation. And not only that, the way it’s taxed can really hose you. So you end up with less take home by a lot. It looks juicy until you it meets the IRS!

[@prestonrasmussen1758]

@@plexqit’s taxed as income tax, the same way a cash bonus would be

[@solumyt]

How old are you Theo if you don’t mind me asking

[@kamiljanowski7236]

Really? I graduated 12 years ago. I didn't hear about faang until last year

[@MFDoomguy21]

I don’t think FAANG/MANGA is necessarily over, I think they’re just balancing themselves out. Life is about Left Turns, Right Turns and U Turns. Currently FAANG is a Oversized Load that is stuck on a Rotary/Traffic Circle.

[@matthiasdebernardini3388]

I want to make cool apps with my friends. That’s why I’m here.

[@agusterodin]

Owen Wilson was the ringleader in selling the FAANG dream 🤣

[@web3simplified793]

that was very well spoken

[@LuisOrtiz-zu3dq]

Will it change since they are moving towards AI? I mean all of them are focusing on AI now besides Netflix and amazon. Although Google and Nvidia are the leaders google in AI software and NVIDIA in AI hardware, but the others are moving towards that as well just wondering if the obsession on AI will help them come back or not?

[@prestonrasmussen1758]

Every company has been implementing AI for a while. If you don’t think Amazon has been a major player in AI, let me introduce you to this little known Amazon product called Alexa.

[@unvrknow22]

Ultimately, companies will exploit their workers to maximize productivity and then just throw them away when times get tough like we're seeing now. It's up to us, the employees, to take care of our mental health and not kill ourselves with 50+ workweeks, because it just doesn't matter in the end. We have always and will always be expendable.

[@smokeyoak]

I'm not a *real* developer because even after all these years I've never worked for a big tech company. Smaller companies can be pretty awesome places to work, but definitely not as glamorous or profitable. Somehow I'm paying silicon valley rent prices but I'm making a regular hidden valley salary 🤔

[@PiroKUSS]

You're a real developer because you develop software/websites. Simple.

[@HoonChoiMM]

Front end engineer still needs to know how to invert a binary tree when trying to get into a faang tho lol

[@Dygear]

Just sent this to my girlfriend who has been asking me about leaving my EMS job and going to work for a FAANG company for a few years now. Never wanted to work at a Google or a Netflix, or even a Facebook, for sure not Amazon. Don't care about the money, I want to make a difference. Going to work for a paycheck is bullshit. If you hate your job, you are going to hate your life. That's just never been a me thing. Much prefer to be less well off but happy than make a million and be miserable. And ... Winter is always coming for FANNG, or IBM and the BUNCH (Burroughs, UNIVAC, NCR, Control Data Corporation (CDC), and Honeywell.) History rhythms and often repeats itself. At least in EMS I know that I'm not going to get laid off tomorrow and I can still write some Rust code on the side.

[@ToddDunning]

You need a new girlfriend.

[@petter9078]

This is a good take.

[@andypsolomon]

Theo with the stock footage

[@dotterel]

One of your best videos Theo! Love it. Only dev i have stayed loyal to, you make a huge impact over the world. Fan from New Zealand.

[@nullquest]

Sorry, gotta disagree with you there. Profits are still high, they might be down a tiny bit, but they're still high. Big tech is not at threat of going out of business, the layoffs are NOT because they will go out of business.

[@0oShwavyo0]

I think we should probably expect low interest rate environments to return somewhere in the next 5 years taking the current political climate into account. We’re freaking out about high interest rates when they’re more like average historically. Folks have come to expect the free money tap, and I don’t really see the political willpower to intentionally stifle short term economic growth for the sake of long term stability. Think of all the geopolitical concerns that the American tech sector is intertwined with - there’s the microchip Cold War with China, race towards effective quantum computing, the ongoing social media control debate, the billions the army is spending on AR tech, etc. Point being that the American method of investing in our future is more or less dropping interest rates to 0 and handing out cheap ass loans, and from a geopolitics standpoint I’m not sure the world is restive enough to go through a recession. A new conflict will break out and the spending on that alone would lift us out of recession lol a la WW2. All this to say that in 10 years I think we’ll have a new crop of faang companies, possibly including Intel on the back of huge government investment to rejuvenate domestic chip production. That would have a huge ripple effect on the American software industry, if we had cheaper high quality domestically produced silicon available. When money is cheap people can spend to expand rapidly and gobble up competition, which is what produced the astronomical valuations of the previous era. Would there have been an F in Faang if they hadn’t been able to spend boatloads of money buying instagram, WhatsApp, and oculus? I kinda doubt it. So my prediction is that the coming geopolitical demands will continue to incentivize a low interest rate environment to maintain our current advantages, and that as a natural result of this we’ll continue to have large high growth tech companies taking advantage of cheap capital to expand rapidly and squeeze out competition. Long winded way of saying wait 5-7 years and I think it will look like 2015 or so again.

[@volimsir]

I never understood why people like the bean bag/foosbal table perks so much. Coding, and figuring shit out is what's fun for me, not the perks.

[@botondvasvari5758]

but you if you don't get stocks you are a slave not an owner and doesn't matter how much impact you do (you can make the company 10 times better only the owner's $ will 10x)

[@sentry404.]

Victims of PR.

[@johnbakhmat]

2:28 linkin park = in the end. Sorry

[@samarnagar9699]

FFFOFOOOOOOSSSSSSS BBBOOLLLLL TAAABBBBLLLLEEESSSSSS cant wait work there

[@bentoth4324]

FAANG is over...it's called MAANG now

[@danvilela]

Who truly wants to work at Meta now? For real..

[@JR-lo2ei]

FAANG is dead! Long live FAANG!

[@yogurtColombiano]

Times are changing

[@alisoylu4034]

Help me to get a job please...

[@ivailopetrov2827]

the stocks will normalize in a few months lol

[@HeinekenLasse]

Wasted days on leetcode for this 😭

[@faridguzman91]

leetcode is ass, companies asking for leetcode assignments aren't worth it.

[@HeinekenLasse]

@@faridguzman91 its worth because google pays 50% more than traditional companies

[@PiroKUSS]

@@faridguzman91 Why is it ass?

[@mr.random8447]

I’m a developer and making poverty

[@zeMasterRuseman]

Facebook Apple Google Microsoft Amazon Netflix

[@lost-prototype]

Full stack is a management Trojan horse to get away with treating developers like interchangeable widgets. If I could give one piece of advice, it would be to dispel the full stack myth and stop advertising yourself that way. Unless you want to work for the kinds of places that hire and fire staff on a whim.

[@sebastianalcala1974]

Just wanted to say, that i love excalidraw ✌🏼 gn Ps: also … im an angular fanboy

[@SimGunther]

That's what happens when there majority of people's retirement and salary is tied to arbitrary things like STONKS 📈 Now we have to think about the 0.1% of jobs that are available and reachable without some boomer scabs blocking recent graduates from getting experience. Either that or make the experience ourselves for effectively no income.

[@realmimak]

soft tech content AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[@lilbostin5358]

When your motivation is money, this is what you DEVs get... advice in life: invest in what you're passionate about to last, not what is profitable

[@eruigu]

You can be passionate and still get compensated adequately, why divide them

[@lilbostin5358]

@@eruigu When i was young, i used to hear about the steve jobs and zucks... And i thought man what an inspiration... But later you learn that most of these people are just greedy MFs who capitalized on an idea that's not even theirs... Tesla and so many geniuses throughout history died broke... The guy who created the cure for cancer burzynski is not even remotely as rich as those who lobbied against his treatment. If you're talking about being seriously passionate... I think you don't stand a chance at being "compensated adequately"

[@theninza]

first comment?

[@ANSHU61936]

It looks like it😶‍🌫️

[@TheBswan]

"It's not cuz the companies are evil, it's because the money isn't there anymore." Thank you. Tired of people feeling entitled to jobs their employers can't afford.

[@prestonrasmussen1758]

Ah yes, the companies posting record profits definitely can’t afford the work force that got them there

[@aanes1dev869]

second!

[@emmanuelarhin528]

third

[@AlexanderPataridze]

third