Let's Talk About Twists-Brandon Sanderson

This is a short segment from my 2021 Creative Writing Lectures at BYU. If you want to watch my lectures in their entirety, you can watch all of my 2020 lectures here: • Lecture #1: Introducti...
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[@Emancy3]

Even though I know his advice on these from his lectures at BYU, I just watch these videos as a part of my procastination breaks😂😂

[@Emancy3]

@@Shiv-dw9pc oh yeah. Lol Nice pfp tho

[@CallMeCamTV]

I came from the dark web because I smelled a conversation about Attack on Titan 👁️👄👁️

[@Emancy3]

@@CallMeCamTV you have a great sense of smell 😏😏😳

[@CallMeCamTV]

@@Emancy3 I've gotta schnoz like Cart 🐽

[@GoldenMechaTiger]

Same. And I have no intention of ever writing a book I just find it interesting

[@Yelnatsinthepit]

“The knight who has slain the beast of shadows has earned the right to the kingdom’s most sacred artifact,” the wraith bellowed. It extended its decayed hands and offered Sir Goodfellow a small wooden box. “Here brave warrior. Take this mysterious tool and let it be your guide in defeating the evil in this land!” The young knight turned the box’s rusty latch and opened it. He reached in and pulled out the object of legend. A sock.

[@cadencev5572]

Behold. The legendary sock.

[@jamescaldwell2357]

Sully is scared of socks....

[@LaPtaVerdad]

-5 phys dmg +30 poison dmg

[@henrysharpe9976]

Somehow I still didn't guess where this was going even when I'm watching that part of the video 😂 (And I'd just like to thank you @Davidstan, this is hilarious)

[@muhammadhashir6136]

I love it! I would like to read the lord of the socks now.

[@JoelAdamson]

About Into the Woods: the audience is stuck in the theater. Readers control the pacing in a novel (ultimately). Plays and movies can get away with having utterly disjointed stories that are still fun to watch.

[@cybersketcher1130]

What about Invincible, there's a good exception.

[@johnlampe3258]

My kids' High School did "Into the Woods" as a musical play. I thought I didn't like it because of the High School Play factor (although it was a pretty good production!), but when I saw it in the theater, I was like "Nope, still hate it."

[@AlfredEiji]

@@cybersketcher1130 You could notice something was wrong though. There are moments in the 1st episode where the show deliberately delivers music, pacing, and dialogue that hints at Omniman’s viciousness.

[@fennec8896]

@@AlfredEiji it’s still a big shock for most people ik though, including me (assuming you’re not spoiled). You can tell he’s kinda suspicious and up to something and maybe even a villain, but you don’t expect he’s going to kill them all at once like he did, especially right in the first episode. Unless you maybe hear about how violent it can be before watching it.

[@bmoneybby]

Man, if my college English teacher was this cool..

[@GoldenStateMarathon]

I'd imagine he/she would have immediately rejoined, "were." They're an English teacher, after all. ;)

[@bmoneybby]

@@GoldenStateMarathon Haha right

[@davidmfr3y]

I love how this dude dispenses such great info but all I can think is "Matchbok"

[@maurinet2291]

Into the Woods actually laid a lot of groundwork for the seriousness of the second half in the first. All the tales had a kind of grit to them, they weren't light and fluffy. They were a certainly more realistic way of treating the tales than out of a children's book. I'd say that the second half took those instances of foreshadowing and amplified them 100%.

[@sterlingmuse5808]

In other words, it promised a twist in the details while promising something else on the surface, in a way that the second half felt more like an answer to the first half than a completely different book. Or at least, that's what I'm getting from what you said, I haven't read it.

[@Eddrian32]

I mean "I am your father" is a pretty damn big twist

[@jazzbassboy]

He’s talking about the original Star Wars, not Empire.

[@JJMB27]

@@jazzbassboy But that's not in the original trilogy?

[@mrsojaje4202]

@@JJMB27 He means the first Star Wars film - ep 4 new hope

[@mierinjoar-lilanfelurianha6451]

not if you know a little bit of German lol

[@DTHRocket]

@@mierinjoar-lilanfelurianha6451 Oh.. haha, I'm guessing "Vader" means "Father?"

[@muhammadhashir6136]

I read Sanderson video titles in his own voice. No other KZbinr makes me do that

[@Bekk-nc9cd]

Yeah me too😅

[@nikitamalikov6683]

Tom Scott too for me

[@muhammadhashir6136]

@@nikitamalikov6683 I also watch Tom Scott, lols

[@alamrasyidi4097]

Kurzgesagt and, of course, Tom Scott. Overly Sarcastic Productions' trope talk also does that to me xd

[@ScottyDMcom]

*On Promise vs Delivery:* When I started my novel the first scene I wrote was how the villain became the villain, and the hero became the hero--how both became shape-shifers. Since this takes place about a year before chapter 1, I wrote it as a prologue. My critique group helped me and we really got the scene (and others) whipped into shape. Then I realized that the prologue was a different genre than the rest of the novel. I was shooting for paranormal romance, but the prologue was straight-up horror, with a demon summoning, child sacrifice, cannibalism, and the appearance of the demon. But chapter 1 was gumdrops and butterflies, with the sweet Indian girl who is nurturing the wolf she found near death (the shape-shifting hero) back to health, and the wolf/hero having feelings of love for the girl. I imagined a potential reader picking up the book in the store and starting to read. "OMG, this is some scary shit!" And they either buy the book because they want scary (and are disappointed when they get home), or they put it back on the shelf because they want gumdrops and butterflies. So I turned the prologue into a flashback, plopped it down in the center of the novel, and started the story with chapter 1. I still wanted to show the reader there's a villain and that he's capable of some scary shit, so I created a very short (2 pages) chapter 2 where I introduce him. I still had a paranormal romance, but with a few _very dark_ elements scattered throughout. That the villain is a demon-possessed cannibalistic shape-shifter with a taste for young girls, drives those dark elements. *But promise is more than plot, it's also character:* For my villain, being demon possessed means he can't relate to people, and so he is utterly alone in the world. He occasionally longs for genuine human contact (The Who's "Behind Blue Eyes" is his theme song). So I wrote another prologue showing when and how the villain turned from being a husband and father, to wanting what the demon was offering badly enough he's willing to sell his soul to get it (the villain's backstory). So I wrote a new prologue that takes place 2 years before chapter 1. He is emotionally hurting and vulnerable, and being taken advantage of by an unscrupulous antiquities dealer who just wanted to get rid of a demon-possessed artifact. The dealer knew full well that whoever bought the artifact would end up possessed himself, and that his whole community would suffer because of it. Then I heard of something called "baby bird syndrome." It asserts that readers latch onto the first character they see, and assume that character is the protagonist--like a baby bird who imprints on the first creature it sees and assumes that creature is its mother. I could easily imagine that many readers would see the thoughtful wolf of chapter 1 as the same person as the emotionally vulnerable man of the prologue. "OMG, that demon possessed artifact turned the protagonist into a wolf!" Because I was writing in first person, identifying who's who isn't straightforward. I could tag all my scenes with epigraphs, identifying the POV character for the scene, but some readers ignore stuff that isn't directly part of the story, forget by the time they turn the page, or assume the author can't be right. Plus I feel such tags are artificial and I don't like them. So to fix the almost complete lack of backstory for the villain, I created a love interest for him. A thirty-something woman, with trust issues (exactly the villain's core weakness), and her own desperation for human contact. Yeah, she's 6 years his senior and bit time worn, but he doesn't care. They meet at about the 1/8th mark, connect, become lovers, and the villain tells her his story. She betrays his trust at about the 5/8ths mark, and so he crushes her skull with a brick and leaves her in a dumpster. But she delivered his backstory, and the reader will never mistake him for the hero. *As an aside:* I wrote my second attempt at a prologue in third person (from the antiquities dealer's POV). I assumed time (2 years), distance (half-way around the world), and the fact that prologues are somewhat disconnected from the main story, would make third person, vs first person (for the body of the novel), perfectly fine. It was. In fact it worked so well I've rewritten non-hero/non-heroine POV scenes into third person--and it all seems to fit together. The downside is that it's blunted the vileness of the villain. I used to feel the need to take a bath after reading one of his scenes. In third person that feeling has lessened. Once ready to query we'll see if agents agree that the hybrid first/third person works. So maybe it's not a paranormal romance. It does get quite dark in places, has more POVs than normally seen in romance, and is as much about saving the world as falling in love. Oh well, guess I'll see what the agents have to say about that too.

[@blewlight5708]

I still can't believe that I've read all that, but I kinda enjoyed learning how you've struggled as part of the process :-)

[@ultimatekunochi6577]

This is an amazing story. What is it called?

[@ScottyDMcom]

@@blewlight5708, thank you. I strive to make my writing interesting and readable, so I'll take your comment as a complement.

[@ScottyDMcom]

@@ultimatekunochi6577, the working title is _Little Red Feather._ My *premise* is: " _Little Red Riding Hood_ in the 21st century with cowboy's and Indians. The wolf and the huntsman are the cowboys, they're half-brothers, both are shape-shifters, and the wolf is the hero." The classic pitch sentence is the *log line,* which takes the form: protagonist, challenge, stakes. Mine is: "When a tender-hearted rancher's son is transformed into a wolf against his will, he must kill his demon-possessed brother, to save the girl he loves and break the curse that binds him." I wanted to pitch it at the Pikes Peak Writers Conference this April, but it looks like the conference will be strictly virtual. Guess I should buy a ticket. Also, I want to go to the Blackfeet reservation in Montana this July, to recruit some beta readers (a.k.a. "sensitivity" readers).

[@blewlight5708]

@@ScottyDMcom sounds really interesting, mate ;-)

[@victoriadaniellemedele7622]

"People trust you". So true. I just started reading Mistborn and I couldn´t for the love of me figure out why people raved about this series, I was really close to DNF... And then I got to the ending of book #2 and it all clicked.

[@LaurencePlays]

Yes. I found The Way of Kings heavy going when I first started reading it. I was reasonably invested (pun unintentional!) in the Dalinar and Kaladin stories and could see how they could work together, but then there was the Shallan arc that was half way across the world and felt completely unrelated. Happily, I kept reading, by the end of the first book I was hooked. I'm now re-reading as a precursor to reading Rhythm of War, and I'm enjoying it so much more because I know the world, I know how things are going to come together, I know how Shallan is relevant! If I hadn't enjoyed Mistborn, Warbreaker, etc so much and therefore trusted the author, I might not have been prepared to give TWOK such a chance. I'm intrigued that it clicked for you in Mistborn 2 though - whilst I enjoyed all three, my favourite of the original trilogy is definitely the first. I think I prefer my fantasy low - about individuals - rather than epic - with world threatening events.

[@amicaaranearum]

@@LaurencePlays My experience was the opposite.I started with the first three books of the Stormlight Archive. (I had never heard of Sanderson before reading those novels.) I might not otherwise have read something like Mistborn, especially the second trilogy with its "western" setting, had I not already enjoyed the Stormlight Archive.

[@LaurencePlays]

@@amicaaranearum That's interesting - I'm not saying I didn't enjoy The Way of Kings on my first reading, however it did feel a bit disjointed to me with Shallan being so separate. I found that (again speaking personally) Mistborn was much easier to get into, and is where I recommend to my friends that they start with the Cosmere. Still, it clearly worked for us both - we both seem to be hooked!

[@pontuslindheohlsson2184]

After countless hours of searching, after years of gruelling travels, he had finally found it! The key to his own heart, the door to his future and deepest desires. Dumbledore stroked the guilded frame, took a deep breath and looked into the mirror. There was a sock.

[@ervisfilipovic1474]

I think the most imporant thing is; it doesn't matter if people can figure it out, and actually it IS BETTER if they can figure it out. People wanting twists to be so overly hidden and complicated, so noone can't figure it out often makes it feel cheap and come from nowhere.

[@Valiguss]

I must say Brandon has good characters and great world building but what really sets him apart is the twists, I’ve read books with better prose, better characters, world building that’s on par or better but I’ve never read anyone who can do a twist and it makes complete sense as well as Brandon and as someone who loves to theorize that keeps me invested beyond anything else

[@Rye404]

Better prose/characters/worldbuilding than Sanderson's? I've nearly finished reading all of his books. Do you happen to have any good recommendations to prevent my upcoming after Sanderson hangover?

[@starmorpheus]

@@Rye404 Wheel of Time (a little too obvious) The First Law Trilogy by Joe Abercrombie, and Malazan (This one is heavy on the world building)

[@juanmarodriguez6010]

"The voidbringers are ********" best twist ever

[@victorzidaneantunesbinda4239]

Yes it is

[@Kishmond]

Oh it gets better ;)

[@emilycaballero6052]

I remember that. I was riding my bike just south of campus while listening to the book. I felt like the breath had been knocked out of me. It was the sort of twist that I never saw coming, but was inevitable in hindsight.

[@alansmithee419]

Yeah he does that twice. It's mad.

[@OwenJWall]

Never fails to amaze me how this man can come up with such intelligent analogies and lessons, based on questions he was given seconds ago. Sanderson is a genius.

[@MassetiOfficial]

I love that Brandon's teachingspren keep showing on these new videos

[@blake343]

"Really easy to give a reader socks instead if a matchbox car" Sums up my biggest problem with star wars sequel trilogy and its "subverted expectations"

[@Crimtaku]

So the good twist is, when expecting rhythm of war for Christmas and then getting it as the hardcover version instead of paperback. That was quite big "Oh wow, it looks so good, man this will be pleasure to read. I can't wait" moment.

[@gonzaloaguilera5611]

Man, Brandon, you are awesome. Image being so clever and so creative that the the saliva you spill, each drop, turns into creativeness for each person it drenches. I was lost and after watching some of your videos now I have an idea about what to write. Thanks, professor.

[@evilallensmithee]

Going to disagree slightly, a twist not just any surprise, it is a revelation that re-contextualizes the earlier story elements. A twist makes experiencing the story the same way impossible with that revelation in mind. A good twist is one that is more satisfying knowing it. Thus a movie with a good twist can’t be ruined by spoilers, but the fun is lessened, examples *The Usual Suspects*, *Fight Club*, & *The Sixth Sense*

[@justfriendly7676]

I kinda want to know what the book that didnt take off is and see if that last third is worth it.

[@puarkchop]

He should namedrop it, would probs Result in a ton of sales for the author😂

[@justfriendly7676]

@@puarkchop honestly. I get he's probably just trying to be helpful to the guy. But I think ultimately it might end helping him break out if he hasnt already.

[@quinnmorrow7179]

I think the only reason he doesn't is because he's worried he may have misunderstood the author, or that the book doesn't actually do that. Like he said, he hasn't done the research on it. But I agreed- if Sanderson says to buy a book, I'll probably buy it. Wasn't he the one that told everyone to buy GameStop's stock?

[@maxcompton3482]

Vaguely possible that it's the Half a King YA series by Joe Abercrombie, which has a minor twist in the third book. However its not as explicit (more of a worldbuilding thing) and also doesn't appear until two whole books have gone by, so perhaps unlikely.

[@ClocksTickin]

Great advice, but also it fills my MTG heart with joy to see that Sanderson is a blue Mage! I mean, of course he is, but still. Appreciate the sweater.

[@vincentpelletier57]

You want Luke to blow up the Death Star, but build up the plot so that it is not expected. Here's one way to do it: "Oops!"

[@ToddsBookTube91]

I love the way, , , he talks about twistsss (soft whispers into the night)

[@4zn1nv4zn3]

Fascinating how the familiarity with the author comes into play.

[@Maerahn]

Brandon, I love you and think you're a genius... but I'd argue that Sondheim's 'Into The Woods' DOES clearly foreshadow its darker heart in the first act through the lyrics of the songs, if you're paying attention. It's just the odd line every now and then, sprinkled through the more whimsical ones, but they're definitely there (Little Red Riding Hood's line as she's skipping off to Grandma's house - "for all that I know, she's already dead" is one such example that immediately springs to mind.) Added to this, look at the fairy tales he chose in particular; if you know the original stories (as opposed to the sanitized and Disneyfied versions,) then you already know THEY GET WAY DARK later on. Even if he doesn't use the exact same plot points as those original stories, the ones he puts in instead have pretty much the same DNA. I first saw 'Into The Woods' at the age of seventeen, and within the first fifteen minutes I'd figured out this was NOT going to be a sparkle-dusted mash-up of whimsy and frolics - and that's exactly what kept me hooked. If everything HADN'T gone horribly wrong by the second act, I'd have felt seriously cheated!

[@JustInTimeWorlds]

Thank you for this! I’m going to go back and check my WIP for signposts 😌😁

[@pIayingwithmahwii]

* Looks at Sanderson’s shirt * I knew Brandon had that drip

[@andyz2861]

The story that nobody likes with upending genres and subverting expectations reminds me so much of the Disney Sequels for Star Wars.

[@LaPtaVerdad]

Exactly the sock

[@SeaGrift]

Rian and JJ gave us all socks

[@alansmithee419]

5:20 I think you could make a case for star wars having something like this - you think the film will be about rescuing leia so she can help the rebellion and eventually the death star may be destroyed in ep6 or whatever, but then they rescue her and there's still a bunch of runtime left and then they go "Oh we're gonna blow it up *right now."* And then afterwards you're left wondering "well, wth are they gonna do in the next 2 films?"

[@BasedElven]

3:03 that screams The last of us part 2 for me

[@danielm.342]

The Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn series has a huge twist at then end. Incredibly well done, Tad Williams had me going the entire series. I love the series, but the first time I read it, the twist pissed me off. Because it wasn't what I expected.

[@luketufts6827]

Are you talking about the secret royalty twist?

[@ramzes2624]

I miss the full lectures

[@mikemcwong]

I love that Brandon is a blue mage!!!

[@clovermite]

10:11 Haha yup, that's very true. The first time I read The Way of Kings, I was ready to throw in the towel about 300 pages in. It wasn't clear to me what was supposed to be considered as normal or abnormal in the world, since so much of the introduction was about how abnormal magic was...but then the world has all these other weird things that people find normal...but sometimes those things aren't normal to them either. Then, Kaladin's bit felt like it was just hammering home the same thing over and over again, and I was just bored by Dalinar's parts. I enjoyed the mystique of Shallan's parts, but they weren't coming frequently enough to hold my interest. But then I stopped and said to myself "The MIstborn Trilogy was great, and I enjoyed Elantris. I'm just going to trust that Brandon will deliver a good story at the end of it." And of course, the pay off was definitely worth it, and wouldn't have carried any where near as much weight if it weren't for experiencing all of the lows with Kaladin. But if I hadn't already experienced the Mistborn trilogy, I would have given up on it before any kind of payoff. When I see people on Reddit expressing their frustration with the pacing, and asking if it's worth it, I tell them this: it's going to be a slog the first time you read through it, but you'll be glad you did when you get to the end, and you'll probably enjoy reading a lot more the second time around. I definitely have enjoyed reading it much more on subsequent passes through it (I think I've read it 3 or 4 times now). I still don't enjoy most of the Dalinar sections in it though :P

[@Meloncolliepoet]

The anime "School Live" has a great twist in the first episode. It's fun!

[@daddyleon]

8:00 aahhh this is iirc the 3rd time I'm hearing this story. I really want to read the story!

[@aix83]

I really wish the whole lecture would be posted online.

[@DanMackison]

I think he needs to have "bonus content" for the paying BYU students.

[@aix83]

@@DanMackison but isn't the bonus content the actual coursework, taking feedback from him, and working with the class? Getting into that course is nigh impossible, simply paying doesn't get you in. There's tons of luck involved too. I wish I could say least watch the whole lecture rather than tiny fragments.

[@DanMackison]

At least we have the 2020 lectures in full.

[@stormelemental13]

I would highly recommend his 2020 lectures. It's the same class and covers the same materials. He even used this same story example.

[@aix83]

@@stormelemental13 Thank you, Eric! Are you in his class this year? I did watch the 2020 ones (and the ones before, and all else he's ever produced on the topic) but there are differences between years, and the workshops (e.g. character work) are different. Plus, it's entertaining to watch Brandon and it's been a rough year.

[@Mcwidowmaker]

This is the honest truth. It takes the readers more or less where they want to go.

[@Rhadagar]

Well, the vids start coming and they don't stop coming...

[@bmoneybby]

With so much to read so I hit the books runnin'.

[@Rhadagar]

Didn't make sense not to read for fun

[@andrewjennings7306]

Stormfather bless the almighty timestamp guy!

[@evilallensmithee]

*Into the Woods* is way weirder when you have never heard of Sondheim, and you just have to go to a few plays this semester as part of your general liberal arts credits 😹

[@BooksForever]

Surprising twist: I liked his guidance just fine, but I really liked Brandon’s shoes in this clip. I wish I had a similar pair.

[@UteChewb]

The bit about upending. I once read a scifi book called "Those Silent Voices". Brilliant, but the first two chapters were complete lame stereotypical dated hero stuff, until you realise that the character is deceiving those about him and has ulterior motives. I think that the fake start caused the novel to bomb so badly I can't even find it on the internet. Too bad because it was really clever, with a big twist at the end, if you got past that first chapter or two.

[@hopebringer2348]

who wrote it?

[@UteChewb]

@@hopebringer2348, I don't remember. I bought it out of a bin. And years later I had a ruthless cull of my old SF books, and it went, but I never forgot it.

[@wylldflower5628]

The other mega-hint for Into The Woods is when you buy tickets for the theater show there was a warning that no children under the age of I think 5 (or 8?) were allowed. As I hadn’t seen it yet it was certainly food for thought!!

[@tape319]

What a twist

[@patchdick]

Will you be posting the whole 2021 lectures, like you have with the previous years? Love the video.

[@jakehopkins6989]

No, he's only posting clips this year because BYU won't let him release the full thing.

[@Tropicoboy]

Me after reading warbreaker and getting twisted many times. You gave me trauma Brandon whyyy!! Lol

[@dallinsmith2308]

Me literally just happy to see him wearing MTG shirt

[@FractalParadox]

It's so interesting to watch this after reading the rithm of war, because imo he does exactly the thing he says not to do in that book. It kinda took me out of the story, so... twist spoiler alert! In the book, Brandon promises a LOT of things with Rlain's plotline, going as far as to have him tell Kaladin straight up that, though he wants to bond a spren, he DOES NOT want a hand-me‐down that someone forced to bond him. Then there is all that build-up with the tower spren and I thought 'cool! Rlain will become this cool contrasty character who is a singer protecting the tower, and also a bondsmith, opening up a lot of interesting conflict opportunities and leveling him up from a background character to something cooler...' Then the twist is Navani gets to bond the Sibling, and Rlain renewed his side character certificate by accepting what is essentially a hand-me-down spren from Renarin [that came out of nowhere, too, so no building up some 'Rlain needs to be a truth watcher instead' thematic justifications]. All so that a main character who's already interesting on their own can get a massive power up for no perceived extra conflict, against the Sibling's own wishes even.

[@robertjandepauw2611]

from dusk till dawn is also an extreme twist I'd say :)

[@jujubean9063]

I ran out of cosmere books to read. I can’t wait for the Warbreaker sequel. Plot twist: Sanderson releases the Warbreaker sequel before Wax and Wayne 4. That would be quite the twist indeed. I love Wayne, but Warbreaker is Soooo good.

[@leandromafe]

Xzibit in Pimp my Ride was the master of escalation twist

[@za012345678998765432]

One of my favorite films, Life is Beautiful, has that sort of big twist he's talking about at the end. It starts out as a sweet, lighthearted romantic comedy in Italy, And at the middle of the movie, after they get married and have a kid, the Nazis come and they're taken to a concentration camp. But I think it works because when people watch it they know it's a holocaust movie, so though the twist is very sharp, it's not actually unexpected.

[@mbaker8492]

Another way to upgrade the "Luke destroys Death Star" thing would be if they discovered just before the battle that the Emperor is onboard. Destroy the Death Star, and end the Empire in one blow!

[@loganbarnes8621]

Indeed! It also explains the reverse, where if it is later revealed “The emperor is in another castle”, it becomes a letdown, even though the Death Star destruction is awesome! Don’t underdeliver the promise. If the emperor must live another day, have his escape be super awesome too, fundamental to this story’s plot, and wrenching for the characters

[@Harabusa200]

i would love a matchbox car from Brandon.

[@DoctorRocktapus]

I did not see this coming...

[@samuelransom4494]

Something strange is going on. We have two people who commented first. We must investigate this further.

[@thewhiskybowman]

That's a twist I wasn't expecting.

[@spencerwhite3432]

6:02 - Rhythm of War ending for me, 100%

[@emmanuelboakye1124]

I got it,promise good give great.got it👍👍

[@newbiesama]

I started with way of kings and it's true: it starts with alot of characters and it;s brutal. I was really close to just dropping it. But people where just praising it so much I continued. And I'm glad I did. And Like most say: mistborn is a better sereies to start of with. Both are great. But you it's a better start for your writing style.

[@austincarroll9374]

Best play in magic Island, go.

[@CATDHD]

Certain David and Dan must watch these videos of Sanderson. They might learn something

[@pookypoo1169]

Hahahaha Brandon sanderson knows prequel memes

[@buckle9733]

I want to continue in your lectures but at the start of the last one I watched you said it had mistborn spoilers so instead I'm reading the series now before continuing 😂

[@mjwanni]

Take notes, David Benioff & D. B. Weiss.

[@rsfrogga234]

Are the full episodes of 2021 ever going to be released? Or are we just getting the snippets from 2021 that are different from 2020? At any rate thanks for these

[@Tobbe628]

Will these 2021 lectures be released in full somewhere?

[@DanMackison]

At BYU, for the students who paid tuition.

[@hayapatel_]

The 2020 lectures are already available, I don't think it will be too different. This segment on twists using the toy car analogy was in them too, just a bit differently worded

[@B-MC]

Into The Woods is actually the perfect example to me. I saw the movie first. I saw the trailer that promised dark. I saw the entire first half and got disappointed, not only was it Fairy Tale Whinsical ... but it was so bland. Then it suddenly went "intermission" and i thought 'but this is a movie' and then it took a big twist but i was too fed up to care. "Wait so what kind of movie is this? Why did we waste half the film on fairy tale if they really WERE doing dark. We already know the fairy tale versions, we didnt need that much setup." And i just hated it. THEN ages later, I saw Sideways video on the stageplay version. I saw laughter, I saw whimsy, i saw dark descent. I had several things I didn't have the first time. A ) i knew what I was getting into, i roughly knew to expect the sharp twist B ) I understood why it was full of comedy, narration, fairy tale and the purpose of setting these things up C ) i had a recommendation, and evidence this version just employed it better. It wasnt just hollywood missing the point, this was the original, which played up the jokes and whimsy to the max (successfully) SO that the dark decline made sense. D ) Because it was in its proper medium, an intermission and light-camp dark-camp fairy tale lens now presented as a great idea. So really ... the movie promised me one thing, and delivered it too late, while being boring in both directions. Whereas the stageplay promised an energy and delivered on it, while also having the benefit of recommendation and hindsight. One of those times spoilers REALLY helps.

[@aapowarjovaara1865]

Could someone define postmodern fantasynovel?

[@Point3MC]

Bigger fish eats little one in Star Wars prequel as well hehe literally.

[@milospollonia1121]

Will we be getting the full lectures?

[@jakehopkins6989]

No; BYU won't allow it this year because they're virtual. I'm not sure why that changes anything, but it's what they've said.

[@milospollonia1121]

@@jakehopkins6989 Oh man, what a bummer. Thanks for the reply!

[@billyalarie929]

"give them the thing" pls i want the thing

[@remnants9974]

I mean, is the twist in into the woods really that surprising? for one thing it's clearly tongue-in-cheek, and the characters are shown to be not particularly nice, willing to act in dishonest ways to get the things they want or think they want... so idk, I think it's not that unexpected for things to get twisted even if you don't know sondheim beforehand?

[@carlajenkins1990]

I used to hate the idea of writing twists, but now I realized it is what I have already done. Tonya wants to marry Igor throughout my book. Readers expect for this to happen. Then, no one expects for Viktoria to be her sponsor in society and for the wedding reception to be in the Great Hall of the Kremlin. Henry Kissinger is a guest.

[@soricesofast]

The true twist is they were called Matchbock Cars all along and we never new

[@randodave]

I hated "Into the Woods". Wasn't ready for the Greek tragedy.

[@eddielopez2373]

If only the Game of Thrones show runners would’ve seen this before the last season.

[@thatspacepirate]

If you need a plot twist, try y=x^3.

[@bmoneybby]

Haha. It's definitely more than you expected!

[@dougsundseth6904]

Or r = a ± acosθ It's not what you expected, but it's not alien to what you expected either. And it's all tied together with the starting point.

[@bmoneybby]

@@dougsundseth6904 ah yes, obviously..

[@ShinkaTV]

Where does "fight club" fit into this example?

[@maxcompton3482]

I think Fight Club kind of sits to the side of this discussion. Brandon is talking about twists that raise the stakes for the characters and giving the reader more than they expected in a way that engages the reader more. And Fight Club kinda does this? The twist reveal reframes the story up until that point and changes the main character's ability to affect the plot, so its engaging and changes the stakes, but I also think FIght Club's twist isn't just about making the story more fun/engaging in the way Brando is talking about, I would argue its designed to challenge the reader's opinion on the character's theyve met so far and reframe the reader's own ideas and beliefs. I'm really talking more about the book than the movie here because the ending to the book resolves in a fundamentally different way than the movie, even though they may appear similar on the surface. Let me emphasise this is just my guess as to what Brandon might think mixed in with my own opinions.

[@ShinkaTV]

​@@maxcompton3482 interesting viewpoint, thanks for taking the time to share it! For the movie, I remember thinking it was terrible until it suddenly wasn't - so for me, it would've fallen into that "everyone hates it" category Brandon was talking about - where I wouldn't have made it to the end unless a friend of mine hadn't made me promise to watch to the end. It's a curious concept.

[@tfpp1]

The way he speaks kinda reminds me of Quentin Tarantino. His passion is kinda like the Quentin Tarantino of writing.

[@TomorrowWeLive]

Coming up with plot twists is one of those things I just don't know how to do. Where do you get them from?

[@atyl_]

Plot twists are all about building expectations over time for the reader and then subverting them in a way that is impactful to the characters/plot. To keep with the star wars theme, Luke believes his father was killed by Vader. He accepts this, so he, and the audience, hates Vader. Then it is revealed Vader is his father, and Luke has to reevaluate this deep feeling towards Vader he had developed. It affects the way he views himself and affects the outcome of the story. The best twists are one that are subtly foreshadowed so that, when the twist happens, readers can go back and see the breadcrumbs that makes the twist make sense.

[@BrodieHodges]

I'm pretty sure Luke got a Corvette.

[@mommynico]

Was he talking about the Shannara Chronicles? Never read them but the show was pretty decent

[@N1ghthavvk]

Maybe. The plot would fit the "reveal to be post-modern" theme, that's true. And Brandon's also right that as a 'consumer' expecting a fantasy story, I actually didn't like the part of it being post-modern in the end... so yeah (I only watched the show as well).

[@mommynico]

@@N1ghthavvk I found it to be interesting but explained poorly. In the show that is. It was mostly confusing and left me wondering how magic and species came about from our world lol

[@onenof10]

No. Shannara is much older than Sanderson’s professional career.

[@mommynico]

@@onenof10 oh yikes! By a lot! Hmm, then I have no idea who is could be talking about the

[@N1ghthavvk]

@@mommynico Well, it would probably a book we don't know about, since the author was sad about it not being as well received.

[@Jeneric81]

Let's talk about twists, baby Let's talk about you and me Let's talk all about the bad things, that can happen, unexpectedly Let's talk aboooouuut twists.

[@ramoncorrea5716]

Dude is wear5an MTG shirt. I WILL LISTEN!

[@gowzahr]

Thumbs up for Into the Woods.

[@stevieackerman8812]

Some hollywood movie/tv writers could learn from this.

[@maggot1111666]

death note, attack on titan, master class in this type of thing

[@Brindlebrother]

Madoka Magica, too. It's literally a different show on a second watch-through.

[@maggot1111666]

@@Brindlebrother thanks for the rec ill check it out

[@CharroArgentino]

Yes, no one expected Death Note to become garbage after that one character died.

[@guybirtwhistle]

Where have you been all my life?

[@jessmumma7705]

Plot twist lol. I finally got my own copy of Words of Radiance... and the first 14 pages, the acknowledgements, and the map had a huge accident at the printer... I am missing about an inch of text and can tell you that the big printing machine has page 1279 backed up against 14. - giggles and sighs- - edit to indicate this... not even mad, just amused. No complaint... just seemed to fit... as I was listening to this video... as the package showed up and I opened it lol.

[@jessmumma7705]

Epilogue: original purchase location is online and a used book store.. but this was a still in plastic box set... not their fault... tor will gladly replace... but they want this copy back in trade.... and I don't wanna.... I want to keep this copy too lol... I'll purchase when I come across it again...

[@JennFaeAge]

I'm...well, I'm not egotistical enough to say I'm good at twists, some people might say I have a problem with writing twists. My favourite though, and I'm going to avoid spoilers...on the off-chance this ever gets published: The heroes believe they're working to prevent dangerous magic falling into the wrong hands, and eventually are led to an ancient citadel deserted for centuries. First they're separated when one of them triggers a trap accidentally. Then, just as you think they've found a way out they discover two things: one, the ally they were supposedly working with turns out to have been betraying them all along. Then you meet the true villain of the piece, who's not only *not* who the heroes assume they were competing with, but...let's just say their plan has gone very, *very* wrong

[@hcstubbs3290]

Sounds fun, good luck with getting it published!

[@JennFaeAge]

@@hcstubbs3290 Thanks :) until that happens I'm just having possibly too much fun letting my imagination run wild

[@hcstubbs3290]

I'm the same with the book I'm writing. The best part is surely the journey right? And if you love writing it, surely that means other people are gonna love reading it

[@JennFaeAge]

@@hcstubbs3290 People think my ideas sound cool. And oh god do I have a lot of ideas (I have a literal mind map to help me keep track of it all for example). That twist I mentioned is just the end of a whole plot thread it builds to...and sets up something far bigger. To give a completely out-of-context hint it involves something called the Dark Leylines

[@hcstubbs3290]

Mind maps are a great way to keep track of all the threads. Dark leylines sounds interesting and a unique take, sounds like you've done a lot of storyboarding and worldbuilding already! Good luck with getting it out there :)

[@cryo4]

Most of the books I truly disliked were unfulfilled promises or badly executed twist endings. He described the danger perfectly: you lose your entire audience if you do it wrong. Unless you're Sondheim, maybe you should just keep your promises to your reader...

[@Ryuksgelus]

Vader being Luke's father and being Leia's twin are fairly big twists. Am I missing something?? Latter not really treated as big as it should.

[@sterlingmuse5808]

I mentioned this in another comment, but I'm pretty sure Brandon is specifically talking about A New Hope here. A lot of Star Wars fans who watched it in theaters mean that when they say Star Wars, and while Brandon is usually clearer I think there's still a bit of that era there.

[@CharroArgentino]

@@sterlingmuse5808 In the previous video (which is just he same lesson) he clearly is just talking about the first movie, so he doesn't clarify here.

[@sterlingmuse5808]

@@CharroArgentino Ah, good point

[@mma-g]

Every idea that I have /write, I always tend to kill the main character off its a bit weird

[@DadBodSwagGod]

Mention the writer’s name though I’ve heard you talk about this And I want to read their book You keep telling me how cool this car is, and then saying “but I’m not giving you that car” Which is frustrating As you seem to know

[@sterlingmuse5808]

He won't do that because he is trying not to make fun of less popular writers in his field. Which is a wise choice imo because he has made sure he is not an attractor of negativity. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's actually being disrespectful, and he could probably get away with saying it; I just think that goes against his principles in this discussion.

[@DadBodSwagGod]

@@sterlingmuse5808 I get that’s the intention But at this point with how much he’s teased this long-con fantasy subversion story, the only thing Sanderson is really doing, is preventing that author from benefitting from his audience of aspiring writers

[@ginge641]

@@DadBodSwagGod Turns out that the entire Cosmere is the story he's talking about and he's been signposting the twist this whole time with these references.

[@vikinginger1889]

To be honest....... I don't know if I fully understood what he wanted to get across about twists.

[@firefox7801]

If Brandon Sanderson was a film director, he would be Tommy Wiseau

[@jagmasta2049]

I feel like vader being luke's father is a "twist." No?

[@StarryEyed0590]

I think when he says “Star Wars” he literally means A New Hope, which was originally just called Star Wars? Otherwise that’s a big oversight

[@CharroArgentino]

@@StarryEyed0590 He's clearly just talking about A new hope, all the plot points he mentions are only from the first movie.

[@olalas1455]

About Star Wars, isn’t the main twist that Darth Vader is his father?)

[@charlesallen]

Yes, but I think he was only considering the plot of the first movie.

[@tulkdog]

Want a car and get socks, perfect breakdown of TLJ