Planners & Pantsers (Gardener & Architect) | Brandon Sanderson

[@RJ_Ehlert]

I like the midpoint between Gardener & Architect, the road trip mapper. You know the beginning and the ending, and a few key places to stop in the middle, and discover along the way.

[@aarondubourg3706]

I like to have the beginning bit planned out and the a direction to start with. Maybe have some key points planned in my head, but they're not concrete and might not even happen.

[@otto_jk]

@@aarondubourg3706 George RR Martin although a gardener type wrote an outline for Game of Thrones but now it seems bad and almost comical. Tyrion was going to fall in love with Arya and Jamie was going kill Tywin and take the Throne and the book was going to end with Starks supported by Tyrion fighting against Jamie's forces.

[@voidsabre_]

That's how Robert Jordan was (according to Sanderson himself) He was a points on a map outliner and Brandon had to fill in all the gaps

[@RJ_Ehlert]

@JustDev A spectrum does exist. Also, this is a situation where writers do fall primarily toward one end or the other. Architects get lost without a plan, and gardeners feel trapped or bored after outlining. (From what I've heard from professional author talks). I described myself as a road trip mapper, but I am more of a planner. I have an outline, I just don't fill it in as much as some.

[@samricher]

Same here

[@BoomMC_Inc]

I plan a garden, but grow nothing. I need to write more.

[@CNBlaze-qj7fg]

You've practiced plotting! Excellent. You already know what to practice next it seems. ;) What are some of your tips for excellent plotting?

[@RJ_Ehlert]

Give yourself a deadline by promising to finish something, anything, to another person, who will hold you accountable for finishing.

[@princessthyemis]

Me too unfortunately 😭

[@MrZemme]

For years, I've leaned toward the architect, because I'm a bit of a control freak. Yet I could never finish a damn book. Every time I started writing, I stopped caring. Knowing the end of my book, the beginning of my book, and how my characters got to the end from the beginning, there was nothing else to care about that writing could teach me. I listened to your 2020 class and realized, however much I disparaged gardeners and their negligence, I was almost certainly a gardener. So I've been gardening a story for about four months now and it's going swimmingly, better than anything I've written before. Almost every day I sit down to write, I'm excited for the work. I'm constantly surprised by my characters and feel like they're really taking me places. Thank you.

[@jayferguson9968]

L.E. Modesitt's books about chaos and order... I'm a big fan of order, but I have a bit too much chaos in me to be on that team. :(

[@iscap5065]

Same thing, i have so many story ideas specially long running omes that might take like 8-10 novels atleast but somehow plannig amazong scemes from get go are making me loose words when i sit down to write, likei know i want thos character to start like this and end up there but i just can't write it or do anything, maybe this time I'll try gardening from now on with little bit info about world and character hope this will help me. Btw can you drop some tips on how you switched?

[@viralium104]

That's the exact situation I'm in right now. I would love mapping out stuff in my head ahead of time, but when I actually sat down to write, I had no clue what to put on the page, so I just wouldn't get anything done. It was miserable. Then, on a whim, I tried out a short story idea I had in my head and accidentally stumbled into this whole "discovery writing" thing. Now, I'm writing way more than I ever have and am actually enjoying it and looking forward to it every day.

[@samormond2624]

I’m so glad I came across this comment because for years I’ve been having the exact same problem but the opposite. I’ve been working on a series for a while and I was 100% convinced that I’m a gardener, but every time I would try to write I would get so overwhelmed with how blank the page was and I started to get really anxious. It only occurred to me around a week or two ago that I might actually be an architect, so I’ve decided to try that out by working on an idea that I had thought of as a prequel for the series I was working on. I think it’s going pretty well so far. I already know how the book ends and I have a decent idea of how to get there so hopefully it goes well.

[@Cosmere_Considered]

I don't know if he has said this before, but I feel like having a purpose behind his writing is super important. "The purpose of a storyteller is not to tell you what to think, but to give you questions to think upon."

[@jeffweskamp3685]

One of Brandon's characters in the Stormlight Archives, called Wit, said that.

[@muhammadmujtaba1744]

@@jeffweskamp3685 way of kings

[@flowerbloom5782]

❤

[@CM-hp5nk]

You just helped me realise my characters are wooden because they're bound by my plot while not really knowing who they are yet. Thank you. I need to go write in their heads.

[@ThreadBomb]

I think character creation is an essential part of the planning process, and you should work on it at the same time that you build the plot. You can't have one without the other.

[@taz2906]

I’ve always felt like I land somewhere in the middle of plotter and pantser. I outline my plot so I don’t forget it and I have direction, but I let my characters do most of the driving. It’s validating to know Brandon does something like this too!

[@kentjensen4504]

One thing’s for sure. “Pantsers” suck at branding if they embrace a term that sounds like either a prank or a fetish.

[@zmnaberhaus]

I'm not a writer but, I am a reader. Watching these videos creates an awesome perspective of what the author was doing.

[@bookyodaianimate8982]

Drunk as hell but Always prepared for Sanderson's writing tips...

[@milospollonia1121]

Ignore the writing group, I wanna get drunk with you

[@LPChipi]

Looks like you're all set for writing tipsy

[@bookyodaianimate8982]

@Denizen OfTheDepths sure

[@bookyodaianimate8982]

@@milospollonia1121 hahaha... Just resetting my brain

[@bookyodaianimate8982]

@Denizen OfTheDepths when can I join

[@ThreadBomb]

I think both methods are driven by fear - fear of losing inspiration. Pantsers worry that planning will kill inspiration, while planners are worried that without guiderails they will flounder about, losing direction and momentum. As for me, I seem to be turning into an uber-planner. It feels great to work out what will happen in a chapter, without having to kill momentum by churning out the actual prose.

[@SilentTrip]

I feel the same! It's so free to get everything in a small amount before expanding on it later

[@Great_Olaf5]

I have my own fears, but they're not exactly that. One kinda leans towards the planner side of things, I want a very firm starting position, or foundation. I don't want to control what the characters do, I want to understand what they'll do. I don't operate on the perspective of controlling things, I write in terms of asking questions. "What do these characters want? What are they doing? How will other characters respond to this?" My ultimate fear isn't not having control, my fear is controlling things at all. I'm not asking myself the question "Does what just happened make sense?" as a check to make sure, I'm asking "What makes sense to happen next?" at my means of progressing.

[@CNBlaze-qj7fg]

Doing the high Plotter experiment right now because I could never actually finish my stories. Finished the plot, began writing and all of a sudden my main character turned into the Antagonist/Villain!.... I'm Pantsing my Plotting

[@CNBlaze-qj7fg]

@Samara Hamilton Yep. That's basically how it turned out. Good to know it happens to other people too. Not just me

[@Pennaki1988]

@@CNBlaze-qj7fg every time I plot. It will change, 100%. Really takes away the whole point of plotting. And you can guess I don't want to do the old plot anymore.

[@CNBlaze-qj7fg]

Like looking at different facets of the same gem...

[@Thenoobestgirl]

It's so weird and wondrous how characters seem to develop a mind of their own even though we are literally making them up in our brains so you'd expect them to turn out exactly as we planned but nope...

[@CNBlaze-qj7fg]

@@Thenoobestgirl I know! It should not be that way! But it is... Sigh

[@thescottishanimeguy9946]

Last time I was this early Brandon was still writing mistborn 1

[@michalkrsik7022]

After 7h reading marathon I finished it today. First fantasy book ever after HP. Can I join the jokes now ?

[@AcesPrune]

"You can't do both of these at the same time, in the same book" *Proceeds to explain that he does just that* xD

[@EladarImm]

Yep, your first bet was right: it's "On Writing" - he talks about how he was also given different advice, including that he should plan or he'd fail; but ultimately found that he was character-driven rather than (and in fact, opposed to) plot-driven. He has a bit where he talks about basically coming up with a general idea for the story, "what if...", and then picking the characters that go in that scenario, and then seeing what they do.

[@helium73]

I got an idea from Frazetta. He almost always finished his paintings. Like he didn't say this isn't working and quit. He'd make it work. He didn't really do thumbnails. He'd usually use all his sketches if he did an illustrated book. He used one of them for the cover and he'd watercolor it to get the colors. He'd always overwork the rough drafts of his paintings to get them perfect.

[@noonana31]

There are times where I think I'm "beyond repair" on things like writing cause I tried many methods, many plots and never ever had finished something. This hits me a lot since I'm already in my 31 per se. But one thing I never stopped was dreaming and trying and finally I have found on Sanderson's books and his way of thinking things some peace of mind that become the most productive days of work in the past week compared what I have had in years. I don't have hope on publishing anything tho. But I figured out that maybe (and I'm just saying maaaaaybe) I'll finally finish a story with Sanderson's help. These videos he posts, the content he makes and everything are true gold. I hope a lot of people who suffers like me may find him one day. They don't have to do anything but listen, he really helped me a lot with just that if I'm being honest. Thank you, Sanderson, thank you for being the person that I never believed it existed. Note: I'm not fluent in english so I'm really sorry for any mistakes, I really tried to put my mind out on these words.

[@omegaminoseer4539]

I am an Architect. The only problem is my characters are fleshed out before I put them into the narrative. This causes a different problem, where my stories start warping around them. A short story I wrote about a soldier coming back from war went from being about how he was jaded and still had hope from his hometown to being about how the hometown cast him out by the end, with him holding on to a small trinket given by a child. The characters would make the story refuse their premise.

[@Maerahn]

Can totally confirm the 'character freewrite' exercise is a solid one to do - whether you're a plotter OR a pantser. I used the Five Questions Interview one on my characters for my w-i-p, and far and away the question that brought the most surprises was "Tell me one thing about yourself that none of the others knows." Every character 'told' me something I hadn't thought of before, but one in particular said something so unexpected I was like "Whaaat? Where the hell did THAT come from?" But then I looked through the notes I had for his backstory, and some of his actions and responses to events in the story so far... and, amazingly, it was right there in front of me all along, all the ingredients to him 'telling' me what he just 'told' me. I can't tell you how incredible it feels as a writer when you experience something like that with your own characters.

[@OwenJWall]

loving these sessions. Really helping with my motivation :)

[@ellismartiskainen7729]

Yeah me too

[@thesamuraiman]

Same. I love hearing/talking about writing to get me motivated

[@PORTALIAN_Makes_Bass]

This was very helpful. I myself take the "Pantser" stereotype to the next level, and I just write whatever pops into my head, like I'm watching a movie and writing down what I saw and heard.

[@xan7292]

I definitely lean heavily towards discovery writing, myself, though I do find that a very basic outline does help me. The way I described it to a friend of mine is that I work best when I start with a "skeleton", and fill in the "meat" as I go. A broad, flexible framework within which my characters and world has room to grow organically, so to speak.

[@Rift2123]

I am not even writer just an enthusiastic fan of Brandon's work and I love getting the incite on how he writes and create the wonderful stories we all enjoy

[@JennFaeAge]

I don't know how to describe how I write. On the one hand I plan to such an insane degree that I have a mind-map of how all my stories link up (I genuinely feel sorry for the theoretical agent/editor who I pitch this to...assuming it ever happens). On the other hand it's best described as "I know the beginning, I know the end, it's everything in between that can change while I'm writing it"

[@desertgecko4549]

2:35 "You can't do both of these things at once." Then Brandon explains how in a roundabout way he does both of these things at once. Character-driven books probably are written mostly by pantsers, but plot-driven books, mostly by planners. Genre may play a role. I doubt any John Grisham book is character-driven, but as Stephen King says, all of his are. Excellent video, Brandon. The only thing keeping me from my "It was a dark and lonely night" is not knowing where to start.

[@neiliusflavius]

Strangely I find that Grisham books often are very much about the character and the plot sometimes gets in the way of that.

[@desertgecko4549]

@@neiliusflavius That's what he _wants_ you to think. See how good he is? Grisham's books are heavy on plot, as legal thrillers demand. But I'll concede that in the few books of his I've read, his characters were strong, key players. He has a knack also for character development. He must be using Brandon's "Can't be done but here's how I do it" method. I jest, of course, as I understand what Brandon said, but he does in a sense use both methods. My method is similar but more character-centric. I recently read a first novel by an author who shows much promise: McNulty, _Bad Parts._ I enjoyed his style, the plot, the creative and unique premise, but I felt nothing for his characters. His hero was too flawed to be likable - which is unthinkable in a horror novel. By mid-way through I'd given up on any sort of redemption for his MC and couldn't wait to finish the book and move on. Had the book been about corporate greed or a miscarriage of justice, the plot might have been enough to keep my interest even without evolving or at least endearing characters. And I'll concede another point. Many of Grisham's adaptations, featuring the likes of Susan Sarandon and Ton Cruise, make a compelling, however flawed, argument in your favor.

[@lifefullofwords]

Like King, I too feel like I've already written a book when I outline first - which is why I do it, it takes a lot of the stress out of drafting. Plus it comes out close to right the first time instead of needing massive revisions.

[@Hello-hello-hello456]

That's an interesting way to look at it.

[@marianikolaou2751]

I can't outline to save my life. Don't know how my book will end till I write the last line. My tip for fellow gardeners: edit, edit, edit. Edit from the early stages, the first chapters, so that any mistake/ plot hole whatever doesn't grow to be catastrophic.

[@MetalGildarts]

I thought I was a discovery man, but I realized I’m more of an outliner. For me the discovery part comes in my characters.

[@UkuleleProductions]

I love how well you understand, the deversity of different writing-styles. I know writers who tell you their way, is the only right one, which is very frustrating.

[@relafen66]

Game of Thrones is an example of a gardener. It’s written so well, but it’s impossible to untangle such a mess without having an outline.

[@ROMANTIKILLER2]

Which probably ended up being George's curse once he found himself having grown a jungle.

[@aliti9315]

Yes. I wholeheartedly believe that thats one of the reasons Winds of Winter takes so long. He probably untangles his mess at the same time xD ​@@ROMANTIKILLER2

[@MarcSamuels562]

George RR Martin is proof that gardeners are inferior

[@CitizenMio]

@@MarcSamuels562 Nah he's proof that if you sell the rights to your books to the spreadsheeting bean counters, your books had better be finished. Or at the very least your contract should include a clause that the show can never go ahead, let alone finish, before the books.

[@rwm4768]

I'm closer to a discovery writer. I rarely write an outline, and if I do, I only outline a few chapters ahead if I hit a point where I'm really struggling. However, I almost always have a general mental idea of where I want the book to go. The farther along I get in the book, the more the ending solidifies in my mind.

[@Eta_Carinae__]

I don't really _write it,_ but I do have an outline; in the sense that I need to know what the story is _about_ before I write it. It helps inform the symbolism, but I also use it to make characters who are narratively significant. The outline is in the form of a dialectic between a number of ideas.

[@macintalkshow]

I've almost always written in the "discovery" style, and frankly I just don't think it's right for me. I "completed" one 500 page draft (it really didn't have an ending, it just "ended") using that methodology about ten years ago, and actually just rediscovered said draft recently. It's downright awful. I still think a lot of the characters and concepts are great, but writing by the seat of my pants really led nowhere. I just recently started a completely new project and I'm really leaning into outlining and planning, and I think that's the way to go for me personally. I still haven't gotten a ton down on the actual draft document (only about 6000 words after three weeks or so) but I've got detailed summaries, character write-ups, worldbuilding documents, and an entire freaking glossary. It's by far the most planning I've ever put into a book and I feel like it's gonna actually result in something halfway decent. At the very least, I've got what feels like a more fully realized WORLD than anything I've ever written before. The question for me now is, do I continue to obsessively plan the whole story, or do I start from where I'm at with a solidly planned foundation and just start writing and see where it goes? I don't know the answer yet, honestly. But that's kind of exciting, in a way.

[@jayferguson9968]

I can't plan a story too much: It feels like I've already written that part when I have to get the characters from A to B. A few bullet points might be nice, just to keep the story sort of on track...?

[@macintalkshow]

@@jayferguson9968 Yeah, I'm kinda thinking that's how I'm going to go with it from here too. I've got a wealth of worldbuilding done, and a basic idea of all the characters and where they start out. I'm thinking from here, I'm just going to write and see what happens.

[@jayferguson9968]

@@macintalkshow That's about all of the plot I can get. :) I get the worldbuilding done, some basic character notes (which I update, so when I go back to that character, I know what's changed/been defined), etc.. Q'ap'la!

[@ThreadBomb]

I don't think of a plan as a limitation, but more like a safety net for a trapeze act. I feel free to play, because I know the net is there to catch me if I mess up.

[@Audio-Books]

Most of the time, when outliners make mediocre characters, it's because the did not outline their characters. And because they like outlining, the best advice is to make them outline the characters too. Do you agree ?

[@TerraDoctor]

Exactly. Plot is not the only thing you plan!

[@Thenoobestgirl]

You mean outline their character arcs?

[@risanf7999]

Yes, I agree, and I also think this makes me an odd fit for this video. I'm an outliner, but what I outline is characters first. When I start a story, I usually begin up character ideas I'd like to explore, such as "little sister of MC's best friend that has a crush on MC." I usually come up with a personality for this character at the same time, something that stands out and fits the theme. I'm also outlining the other characters in relation to this, like the MC and the MC's best friend, so that they all bounce off each other properly. Then, I can come up with the plot and the finer details so that the characters can best show off their personalities. So for me, outlining isn't something that works against characterization; it's PARAMOUNT to it. I've gotten good reception to several of the characters in my story, so hopefully that means my outlining isn't making my characters dull.

[@VicRibeiro777]

Probably one of the most important "tools" a budding author needs to learn about.

[@smartsolutionz6711]

I would love a video on outlining. Not just from the perspective of getting a good book out of it in the end, but more about, that a lot of times (especially if its a job) you have to submit an outline to convince the publishers or your employer. But because I'm structuring my writing a lot like Brandon. Meaning, I plan and outline the plot but discovery write with the characters, my "outline-characters" often feel stiff and less interesting than they do in the final book. What are your ways to work around that?

[@joshuakusuma5953]

I've always been a bit of both but more of the pantser. I have a rough outline on where things will go but it's mostly I just see where these things take me.

[@TheMoFauxs]

I always thought I was a pantser. But then I finally gave outlining a real shot and it was way more fun and definitly works for me.

[@evandempsey7613]

_On Writing_ is possibly my favorite book of all time, which says a lot, since it's not even fiction.

[@rafaelisidoro4983]

In most of my stories, I am a total architect, I try to outline everything. In the last book though, I tried to go like King, facing the blank page and going for it. It kinda worked and I had a lot of fun. Now I am trying to mix both methods like Sanderson said.

[@EhsJaySaunders]

I definitely fall more into the King camp, but I write myself notes on where I and the characters are going, if I start slowing down or getting stuck. It can start to resemble and outline, toward the end.

[@gusharris-reid3419]

My first manuscript was 100% gardening, making up the world, characters, and even the story as I went along. However books 2 & 3 (in the same series) were plotted down the the scene (of which there are approx. 100 in each book). These can (and do) change as I write and the story becomes more detailed, but I find this baseline really helpful in terms of motivation, knowing (for example) I have to finish a scene every two days if I want to finish the 1st draft by X date.

[@LiteraryStoner]

I am such a discovery writer. I'm going to have to edit edit and edit some more, and work on my endings.

[@jackiejackman8664]

Would love to see a video about common writing mistakes and their fixes or something like that. It helps me identify my weaknesses!

[@richardkeenan3079]

So good!! I’m finding I am a big outliner as well! Makes the writing process so much better and easier for me!!

[@SilentTrip]

I definitely NEED to plot everything to feel confident and move into writing. I used to write as I go, but never finished these stories. I am trying to plot and see if it works and I stick with this one?

[@holyflutterofgod]

I find that I'm exceptional at structuring, outlining, and editing (it's my job, as a video editor) but when I actually have to _write,_ ideas subside. I'm so bad at free-writing that I almost can't do it without a writing partner to talk things through with. I have no aspirations of being an author, but I do have stories that I doubt will be told if I don't write them down. And I know that if I could write them badly, my editing brain would have endless field days picking apart how to improve them. But acquiring that content to pick apart is deeply unpleasurable.

[@NotAnIlluminatiSpy]

This was helpful, thank you.

[@roycealphonso1386]

In this respect I feel I am flexible. I feel I can be both a Architect or Gardner or at least somewhere in the middle like you said. I write an outline which I sometimes follow or sometimes don't. Though writing an outline does make it easier to write even if what I write in the outline is not applied. I feel it makes it easier to overcome writer's block if I have an outline.

[@BooksForever]

I tend towards having a firm idea regarding the conditions that define the head (beginning) and tail (ending), then after a thorough investigation of initial causes and effects I will discover the bones that form the framework of the body, and by thinking more seriously about the connective tissues from bone to bone the necessary flesh seems to almost materialize on its own, and then it’s just a matter of writing it all down in a style that suits the story being told. So, definitely a plotter, but there is still that brainstorming (or barnstorming) sense of flying by the seat of my pants as I discover the trajectory of my plot.

[@rxvenii6975]

Love that he turned his signature into a fantasy emblem

[@AG-vk5or]

Loving these topics and format and length of these videos. Thank you!

[@rhuanv]

Are the classes being released on the channel? I really loved them, and even if they are almost the same as the 2020 one's, I would watch them all. If possible, it would be awesome. Incredible content, as always.

[@TomorrowWeLive]

No, they're not.

[@alastaircase]

I'm still working on figuring out my writing and planning style. The first book I wrote I had no plan whatsoever, and I finished it, but I look back on it with dread for how flimsy the plot was, there was no depth and it ended horribly. Then I tried writing a book with a very strict plan, I wrote for about five days before I lost all motivation completely. Now looking back I see that I need a mix of both, I need a good ending, a few key moments, some solid and life-like characters, and then, just maybe, I can begin the writing journey and find success. I don't know where I'm headed yet, but I'm trying my best and having fun.

[@285wilson]

I write a sentence per chapter for an outline. A basic idea. Then I try to see where that idea takes the characters. Definitely a mixture of both

[@adamrhodes9946]

Yep, I am exactly like you Brandon. But I usually only outline a couple of chapters ahead, because my character discovery writing sometimes changes things enough that I would have to rewrite whole chapters of my outline. And I also sometimes have to go back to chapters that I have already written and add more to it, to explain things that my characters are doing in the current chapter.

[@unitron2005]

I tried gardener first. Produced a lot of writing. Great quantity, terrible quality. Then I switched to architect. Now I noticed a billion errors, wrote a thousand pages of notes, and... can't get a single chapter finished. I'm starting to feel like the universe is trying to tell me something.. XD

[@lowercase_ash]

I've heard that quantity is waaaaayyy better than quality and that quality is something that comes with experience 💕 If you feel like writing is something you want to do, it's okay to fight for it. The "spark" is a lie. Writing is not something that you're born with. You got this!

[@ajmalaika1287]

Yes the universe is telling you you're a hybrid and need to find your point on the scale

[@thinkingplace4496]

Yeah, maybe go from gardener to... tinkerer? Like, find a story you liked writing and then just edit the fuck out of it for a little while. Rewrite it, reshape it, make it good. I’m not qualified to really say anything, but that’s seems like a way for you to get the story you want while also... making stories.XD Good luck!

[@hcstubbs3290]

I'm definitely more of a pantser and I have to stop myself going back and rewriting before I finish the story. I keep telling myself I'll fix it later. 😅

[@sparksdog8111]

I don't write like an architect, I write like the guy who taught the architect everything they know.

[@failedleopard3685]

I always thought I was an outliner, it just fit my personality so much, but once I'm done with the outline the magic kind of goes away. Now I'm starting to think I'm a discovery writer and I absolutely hate it since there is so much of a lack of control that I kind of like to have, So I have gotten stuck in writing mud that trying to figure out where my feet are

[@devinr7722]

Bullet points. I call them waypoints. Know key moments in your story and then let the characters take you to them.

[@failedleopard3685]

@@devinr7722 That might work. Thank you! :D

[@neilanderson6514]

I have found your videos so helpful and have discovered that im a gardener but I do what Dan Wells does I have a rough outline with a well thought out ending. Years ago I was given advice to write the ending first and go from there. The first novel I seriously tried to write I planned it out but still haven't wrote more than about half chapter because I wasn't excited about it as much as the one im now writting ( the unplanned one).

[@cyrokin965]

I'm definitely in an experimental stage with my writing in terms of whether I use an outline or don't. I've got two 20+ chapter stories which I started working on at the same time. One has a fully fleshed-out outline, and the other ended up being pantsed because I was having so much fun freewriting the scenes; and despite knowing where I wanted to go with the story overall, I absolutely could not produce an outline. I suppose it's become my great writing experiment. Yet both methods are at work in both stories. I prefer to outline, but I've made far more progress on the one without an outline... because I'm forced to stay invested in it 90% of the time just to remember what I'm doing. I will sometimes outline a chapter when I get to it, and I have an end goal, character arcs, and basic plot points in mind--- but they're always subject to change depending on new ideas I get while writing. Meanwhile, for the outlined story, I come up with certain specifics as I'm writing it. So despite having a full outline that I'm not going to change, I prefer to work out the character moments and exact details of the events as I go. Some areas of my outline are black and white, while others are grey. I will even put multiple ideas for a scene on the outline. So, I'm mostly an outliner, but I'm never incredibly rigid. I just like to have an idea of where I'm going and the order of my events so I can sneak in as much foreshadowing and as many "re-read bonuses" as possible.

[@Zac_Craig-Claveau]

"You can't do both" I beg to differ. Personally I plan premise the end, perhaps a few plot points, protagonist and antagonist and then stumble into new things; subplots, foils/secondary characters, character features, etc. It lets you direct your story and saves you from the bad endings, but keeps the joy of creation. Then again, I'm not an author, so... Maybe take his advice over mine.

[@Rhadagar]

Spoiled for content recently :)

[@kushalrijal9453]

I used to be a ferocious outliner. Now I just note some plot bits and write.

[@margaretdrumm6658]

I lean towards the architect because I have to. Otherwise I end up writing a lot of family dinner type scenes which are fun but don't drive the plot forward at all. However, I have noticed that I often tend to discovery-write scenes--I will have a bullet point or two for what I want to accomplish with this conversation, but then (if I've got the characters right) it just flows, and sometimes ends up in very unexpected places. I've had times where I've sat down to write a confrontation and it has not gone a tall how I expected.

[@tomlewis4748]

'Walking down the middle' implies you get part of the benefits of plotter and part of the benefits of pantser. It also implies you do not get all of the benefits of either, nor does it prevent the problems associated with both. But there is a way to get all the benefits of both without any of the drawbacks of either-Reverse Plotter. What that is, and it works well for 'pantsers at heart', is to first, draft like you're shot out of a cannon. Free write like a madman. Then go back and outline, or document synopses for what you have written on a spreadsheet, or use some method such as that to take a conscious 10,000-ft view. Do everything a plotter might do before they begin drafting, after you've done the drafting. It essentially is allowing your creativity to emerge unfettered from your unconscious mind, followed by evaluating that and fixing what might need to be fixed, afterwards. You get all the advantages of pantsing, followed by all the advantages of plotting, and the plotting fixes any problems that come up in the pantsing, while pantsing first, prevents the problems associated with plotting. He's right, you can't do both at the same time, and yes, they are mutually exclusive. But you can do both serially-pants then plot.

[@matthewgordonpettipas6773]

I tend to do a brief summary of each story I write. Enough to know where I want to go with it while at the same time leaving me lots of room to let my imagination run wild.

[@othyization]

I used to get way too much into planning and world-building, rather than actually writing the story/book.

[@davidchs2821]

I tend to discovery write, but if the story has no purpose and I don't know where I'm going, I feel terrible and think I am not a good writer. This is not true, however, when I write comedy. I first got into writing by creating an absurd story where I fitted as many jokes as I could. I had a blast writing that, but I struggled in style and narrative (it was mainly dialogue). Discovery writing is a great tool to brainstorm and to exercise imagination - the most ridiculous situations happen that way - and is very useful to create great scenes. It tends to feel like you are in the moment. Plotting, on the other hand, is great to have a sense of direction and purpose for the story. It's easier to communicate the ideas you want, to see what's more realistic or interesting, and to structure better the plot. You know when to introduce characters, where to put climaxes and you can mold emotional and story arcs in a more intricate way.

[@DaltonKevinM]

I can squirt out a decent short story (10 pages or less) with zero effort. My characters come to mind fully formed and already possessing wills of their own. I do have notions of where I WANT a longer work to go, but thus far once my pantser engine runs out of gas, it's over.

[@TheLegendOfRune]

I've read a few books from an author who is a rigid outliner, and sadly her characters are very stiff and feel two dimensional. I've also realized about my own writing that I'm a little bit of both plotter and pantser. I call my first draft an outline, and my first draft is more of a second draft, I still am working on getting a book finished with this new writing style that I'm using.

[@milospollonia1121]

Do we know if the lectures will be released in its entirety?

[@MsSmellybob]

The only way I can outline and still be free to write what comes to my mind is through voice messages.

[@WasatchWind]

I always love Brandon's writing advice... but the big problem I'm encountering with my writing is coming up with interesting things for the characters to do. I know what my broader conflicts are, but finding the way to pack in the empty space is difficult.

[@Eluzian86]

I would say, see if you can break down your main theme into 3 to 5 minor themes that can build on one another, leading to it culminating with your main theme and main point. For instance, I had a theme of genocide, so I worked up to it with social unrest, then terrorism, and then finishing with genocide. Another main theme I'm working with is revolution. So I worked up to it playing off the minor themes of political disagreement, then mutany, then treason, then finally revolution. Each of those things can lead to the next, but at the same time they can each be touched on separately while working up to a larger and larger scale conflict. I hope that helps.

[@KootFloris]

Research Tolstoj! He knew both how to make national tensions visible in the small of a relationship. And he knew how to blow up the fuzz of a few people to universal trouble. Most writers can do only one of the two. Either show how national conflict influence relationships (Think for example on how to talk to my right-wing or left-wing family during the Trump years?) or how tensions between a few characters lead to world wars (Think of SF where an a*hole destroy the peace between nations, because of his own selfishness.)

[@gracemfrench]

BS: "You can't have both of these--" My ADHD plantser ass: "YES YOU CAN!!"

[@ArifRWinandar]

I thought pantsers was named after the phrase "by the seat of your pants"?

[@emmanuelboakye1124]

I have to say this man is awesome😁😁

[@jamesenglebert9149]

For one of my story. I created all my character years ago and now want to build a story around them. Not easy.

[@AvalynGirl]

INTJ = planner. Play to your strengths!

[@heyou1]

Planters for the win!

[@nadyamercik1731]

These are amazing. Will you be posting full 2021 lectures?

[@schlumbl84]

Character-driven stories are much more exciting to write. It also feels like youre desling with real people. If the people in the story are wooden and stiff, no reader would give a damn about them. I always saw it this way: Great characters can create great stories, while great stories cant really create great characters. I read a lot of books and saw movies with interesting plots, but the characters were dull, wooden and flat. I am also a gardener. Cant imagine writing stories with an outline. I have a "could happen" list, though. A list with bullet points of things, situations, circumstances, twists and scenes that COULD happen in my stories. Oftentimes I find myself doing the exact opposite of those bullet points. Or characters suddenly die on me.

[@Ψυχήμίασμα]

I like to world-build first. I'm not a writer but a mere lowly RPG campaign creator, lmao. But I start with the setting. I'm always fascinated by places and histories. And then I feel like I could think of what kind of people can live in those places, and how they interact with those geographies and histories, which then leads to cultures, traditions, religions and cults, manners of speech, street fashion, etc. And then characters who would be inculcated and born into these things, and how they interact with them. Then it's the magic system. In an RPG with rules, you just work with those. But in a story, I'd imagine I would then create the magic system. Well, in one scenario we had no magic system. There was rather magical events that happen which influences the campaign and setting, that characters have to react to, so in terms of the characters it was more a skill system. And then of course in a game, you'd have an event that gets the plot going. The ending, well, usually involves a final boss or two or 10, hee hee hee

[@ElektroBandit89]

I’ve only tried to write one novel and I ended up taking long breaks in between writing and then forgetting what was happening and where I was going with it. Forgot character names and such.. yeah I need an outline next time..

[@MarieCrossbow]

Taking long breaks is your issue.

[@7own878]

I can't get over the fact that on his t shirts the boats from the original painting are missing.

[@TrishLee]

Thank you for this!

[@DadBodSwagGod]

If you get to pick a dumb name for us, I get to pick a dumb name for all of you They are now known as Pantsers and Glancers

[@DeBoVI_92]

Can we see one of your world building outlines?

[@ddfstar7588]

I love it when he mentions my fav author, GRRM.

[@ddfstar7588]

@Denizen OfTheDepths If George never finished asoiaf it would still be my fav series.

[@billyalarie929]

when is the 2021 lecture series going to be released in FULL!!!

[@jeremytaylorfrancisgleaves3854]

slowly over time

[@hunterbartley7071]

It won’t be

[@MakatAlexander]

@@hunterbartley7071 Why?😭

[@hunterbartley7071]

@@MakatAlexander they only do it every few years

[@MakatAlexander]

@@hunterbartley7071 Oh😢😢

[@mythoughtsof8974]

What do you think about writing a pretty vague outline and then you write off that. You have wiggle room but you know whether ur left or right

[@RitamBuchwald]

Taravangian is clearly an outline guy.

[@writerblocks9553]

what about bonsai trees?

[@ryanvance1020]

any plans for a 200K celebration? we’re fast approaching that mark lol

[@davidwilson6577]

Why would a Dragon need a sword? Silly Brandon.

[@topaznora2055]

I'm just here to ask for the Rythamist part 2. Brandon, don't let me down.

[@neiliusflavius]

According to the "State of the Sanderson", this is likely to be between writing Mistborn Era 3 books, so probably 2023-25. So, not very soon but still on his mind.

[@topaznora2055]

@@neiliusflavius I'm aware. Just here to ask.

[@WritingRandR]

I'm so bad at endings 😭

[@matturso2224]

Shouldn't it say "Gardener"?

[@TheKrazyLobster]

HELLO THERE!

[@BileyyggR]

I personally need to not write anything in advance, or plan anything, because when I do, I don't want to write the story anymore, because I already have the story in my head