Let's talk about Warcrow

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[@VaulSC]

I think I accidentally referred to Oathsworn's revenue in "Euros" where is it probably american dollars. Either way, not material to the point being made. Another verbal error--I meant they are shipping in February 2024, not 2023 :)

[@OikeudenTassu]

US dollar is worth more than Euro right now anyway.

[@Vertrucio]

They also didn't show a whole scenario for Warcrow, meanwhile Oathsworn is a reprint with some expansion content, so it's a known quantity. I backed, but the treatment of Defiance players is why I'm only going basic.

[@orbitaloperations]

Agreed on most of what you said. I had a video talking about warcrow on my channel but decided to postpone it until the campaign ends to not have it affect the campaign. My feeling is that CB rose the stakes too high with warcrow and left Infinity a bit in the dust this last year and doesn't seem like the gamble is gonna pay out.

[@Xagroth]

So, externalities first: CB preaches to the choir, and they are losing it in the KS idea at least. What I mean is that they bombard us with news, but they use the same channels for Infinity, so they are not getting new people from the boardgame crows. And the material is going down: while the demos were made with siocast models (the PVC molds don't even exist yet!), Defiance was metal, TagRaid was PVC and Metal, and Warcrow aims to be entirely PVC with several cloned models, plus they started a KS before delivering on the previous one (plus, they warned that TAGRaid would take a full extra quarter to deliver, so Warcrow's Late Pledge may close before TAGRaid has arrived!). Finally, as you mentioned, CB has shown a... tendency to pounce on the last new idea, leaving the previous one mostly forgotten. I mean, HellLois spent a few months on medical leave, and the ITS and FAQ for Infinity were frozen... As for the app, after dealing with how CB looks at computers with the Army (they have three distinct databases instead of one source, for example....) I do not trust their App... much less any kind of support for it after launch, unless it's paired with "Wacrow's Army".

[@Xagroth]

Now the personal stuff: I was in the Freak Wars this summer and CBhad one Infinity Blackwind table, I think one Aristeia... and two Warcrow demos; I can understand that... but not ten meters away you could buy Infinity boxes with about 40 to 55% discount (Crimson Stone amd similar Operations at 62€, Morat Pack and similar at 54€ or so, full C1 armies at 150€ etc...) and I'm not talking a few boxes, but piles of them. So no, I'm not interested in giving my money to what looks to me a company that tries to stay afloat with KS and may never deliver, nor to get a "bad guys army" with plenty of clones and a bunch of heroes I may never use... specially since I backed several of Reaper Bones' KS already and have hundreds of fantasy models in plastic, PVC, etc... Not to mention, I have a resin 3D printer, and the models out there can shame CB's best sculpts of the last year. Add to that their inability to produce clear, organized rules (I have rulebooks from N2, N3, N4, Defiance... and it's always the same), and I simply have no reason to risk money in a product that is a complete unknown.

[@jamesj9672]

So this probably isn't that helpful but for me the sticking point was the art. Infinity art's been sort of... melding. Making things more similar, less dynamic, and removing each faction's visual identity. I read through a couple of faction forums on the discord (not crazy, I just read really fast) and that seems to have been a sort of... slope for a while. An incline towards sameness. (unidentity) Warcrow imo suffers from that more. Even in the kickstarter page there's two or three distinct styles of art on display and all of them clash. It's anathematic to have so many themes with no overarching soul, especially in a world's first introduction. And Oathsworn just nails world thematics on every level which (in comparison) makes this a hundred times worse. Sorry for being rambly.

[@VaulSC]

Decent take, thanks for this

[@johnsellars2692]

I agree with pretty much everything you said. Also it depends on the player group you play with as to what they end up playing too.

[@ryancaputo1671]

Warcrow is too expensive for what you get, especially when you get twice as much in a proven game in Oathmark

[@Space_Ranger]

I was really interested in Warcrow but not the board game. Defiance I think worked because Infinity already existed. Also I find Warcrow too typical fantasy with the heroes. The enemy are pretty cool. Also there's tons of fantasy stuff already out there. I can't throw a die without hitting a fantasy figure at the game store. Especially for board games. Defiance was pretty different. I've seen some scifi mini games but none that looked as good. Cyberpunk is the closest to as good looking hard SciFi figures. 40k is fantasy to me. Then as mentioned, the wait is too much for me. I can't spend that amount for a game I can't play for years.

[@jimb569]

Shocked that I agree with you on most of this. :). I think there are a few things hurting the potential of this kickstarter. 1) like you said, competition. 2) Many people don't like the body horror aesthetic. 3) They have not shipped their previous kickstarter - Tag Raid - yet. 4) Global economy and the uncertainty of actually ship times since the wargame should actually be out at least 6 months before this even starts to ship. At least that is my perception of it. 5) and above all, that mini for the Weaver.... Nobody want's that that! :)

[@jjsantam]

Besides whatever your feelings are on the game, world, app... it's been a poorly manage kickstarter overall. For example, not having an all-in pledge and not listing all add-ons since day one might have annoyed people who had already pledged. If they want to use kickstarter to launch their new products, they should know how to manage the platform better.

[@yosoyashep]

You've left out one of the aspects of wargaming, along with playing, painting and collecting miniatures: imagining the worlds those miniatures exist. Warcrow's lore seems to be quite dull, a "more of the same-old-elven-dwarven-men" approach which turns me off. Infinity has werewolves (antipodas), fishmen (ilotas), lizardmen (shasvastii), insectmen (exrah), gorillamen (morats), plantmen (tohaas), retardedmen (panOs), beautifulgeinusheromen (nomads), etc. Why go back to Tolkien yet again, like most (if not all) the other fantasy games?

[@johntrotter7372]

Play pan o. Can confirm.

[@TheYozaman]

Its only that start more will be added later on

[@TheYozaman]

Infinity has been around for years

[@yosoyashep]

@@TheYozaman And Infinity's lore and setting still hold up. Why is that? I think it's because Infinity mixes traditional elements of classic Sci-fi (wormholes, aliens, hacking, technology...) with an original view of human History's evolution. I see Infinity as somewhat a History based game. That's refreshing, interesting. Warcrow seems to be a Middle Earth with a foggy Mordor (sorry for the simplification).

[@Lucian028]

I'm just sooo burned out from all that waiting and delays of Defiance that I cannot stand the idea of preordering game 2 years in advance. Cause they also promised retail release. And there's no big tiddy milf Kusanagi to picque my interest this time.

[@orbitaloperations]

I see you're a man of culture as wel...

[@Weusten1]

I was very happy with how fast CB send my defiance Kickstarter to me^^ I have other Kickstarter backed that are not here after 2 years after backing. (Zombicide+Shadows of Brimstone)

[@Darkstar_456]

I got into infinity through defiance. Love the artwork, content and minis. Support and rules for defiance have not been great. I’ll stick to infinity and avoid KS from Corvus Belli. More support for defiance might get me to reconsider but short of that I’m good.

[@BeechcroftDowding]

Yeah, huge swing and a miss for me. I was only vaguely interested in Defiance because it ties in to Infinity. I have little interest in board games in general because at this point I have a half dozen that I struggle to get to the table. I would want to at least try Warcrow the wargame a couple times before I even considered putting money down on a board game - and that's a big gamble for something I may have absolutely no interest in at all in 2024 when it finally gets here.

[@TheYozaman]

R u a fellow kiwi

[@VaulSC]

Yep

[@TheYozaman]

@@VaulSC chur bro lol

[@astreick]

I backed defiance, but only for the minis. I would have backed Warcrow IF I knew I could use them in Warcrow the wargame. Also do not know what faction I will want later, that kept me away from it.

[@jarrod6670]

I'll pass. Too much reliance on the app, and would like a scenario book and reliant more on the paper side (apps become invalid after a while). Also, product is too pricey for what a backer gets. Also, the minis may not look great or hold up with just pvc.

[@geeksworkshop]

Kickstarter ergh.

[@bryanwest4876]

Wait.. VaulSC is bashing something from CB? I'm shocked 😱 I jest and overall I agree with many of the points. It's hard for me to imagine Warcrow being a massive success without eating into Infinity's player base. Hopefully I'm wrong but it seems all of us only have so much time to commit to a game and this is mostly being targeted at players of other CB games. With all that being said I backed the KS mostly due to fomo for the exclusive miniatures 🤷

[@Zac-Hansen]

I'm one of the only people I know that backed Defiance because it was a dungeon crawler. !!!!!Platinum Pledge!!!! I rate the game a 3/10 because the campaign book is written so poorly and some of the rules, Smoke for example, didn't even make it into any of the rule books. The art, the mini's, the mechanics, are all solid and enjoyable. After this hot garbage fire of a game and lack of support. I can't see myself ever getting a CB kick starer again. Not to mention how they paywall people into the max tier to get all the stretch goals. I noticed this becoming a trend for more Kick starters and its very anti-consumer. The old more successful campaigns just gave everyone who pledge the value of being able to produce the game more cost effectively. The above and the whole lets give Morats bad ass fire teams to sell mini's (CB is taking notes and applying them on how to ruin a supportive community) and flood of Kickstarters from CB is starting to put a bad taste in this once mega fan boy's mouth.

[@Weusten1]

For me the Warcrow boardgame is a miss, I don´t like the zombie miniatures (too much grimdark+Darksouls) and I want to see more from the WarCrow factions to know if I want to invest in the WarCrow tabletop. I only backed Defiance for the miniatures and now I play Infinity on regular bases. (I started 3 Armies and got one of my boardgame friends into infinity)