Lets Talk Destiny 2, Final Shape & Destiny 3 - ft. Byf

[@Panhammer64]

hey byf i reinstalled destiny 2 & hundreds of women flooded my dms, they said "wow, do you main solar titan??" at first i was afraid (i do not talk to women) Then, I began to understand this is the power of destiny 2, the game. This is what Bungie has been working towards all these years

[@ASKid24]

😂😂😂

[@kylemccormack1785]

you stole this comment.

[@MynameisByf]

The power of Bonk hammer I guess…

[@michaelwilson2963]

Dude I joined an LFG for Crota and all 5 other members were women. I was extremely surprised 😂 after initial shock it was a pretty good time. Took awhile, but they made it fun for sure

[@penileshenanigans2613]

What an original and not stolen comment I haven't seen a dozen times this week

[@Rex_Stuph]

About the discussion at 13:00 , the preorder subclass skipping fusion rifle has had pink in it's colours, along with all the other sub class colours since the announcement.

[@aljazslemc9569]

I wonder how that'll work

[@djsynthia694]

Also the Fusion rifle's element changes depending on the subclass. It was prismatic all along. No way they came up with this in 3 months

[@Justin.501]

@@djsynthia694This being made in 3 months would be astonishing. I highly doubt that really went into their endgame moment without big swings like this.

[@NiteMareRose]

Fusion would work off grenade you have. Thats what would make sense to me

[@crazytalk8120]

In the reveal of Final Shape, before the guardians turn blue, purple and orange, they all flash pink for a moment. Folks just want to hate on Bungie, so nobody caught it.

[@Yumais]

Just want to point out that during the sit down Joe did he said “we’re holding things close to our chest with this one.” And “you’ll have new things to fight and new ways to fight them”. So make of that what you will.

[@Libert1n3]

They have said that many, many times over the years. It's just PR marketing mumbo jumbo. Bungie's sales were down 40%. If this stuff was planned long ago they would have shown it off. Sentiment around the game was not good. Paid transmog, carving out dungeons to sell seperatly, over monetisation in general, stagnant seasonal model, sunsetting, under delivery comments, content vault etc etc. They needed final shape to be something special. It seems like they have put in the time and effort to actually over deliver for the first time in a while. It seems to have worked too. A lot of positivity around the game. Pre orders seem to be on the rise as you see a lot of the pre order bonus items out in the wild more frequently. It seems like final shape will deliver game play wise I just hope they can nail the narrative and bring the light dark and saga to a satisfying conclusion

[@AceInTheSpade]

​@Libert1n3 wrong development has a process. There was no way this was under development after the delay. This was in development likley before the showcase but was early stages so it clearly wasn't ready to show then. He wouldn't have said "holding things close to the chest" if it wasn't something substantial. Also they have not said that everytime. Joe was specefic with his comments. Not to mention they work in 6 months cycles they rarley ever throw things together randomly within a few months. So the theory this was a result of the delay makes zero sense.

[@GetGwapThisYear]

@@Libert1n3 hear it, but over-delivery is not a thing. That mentality is what leads execs to kick back and milk us for cosmetics and mid content in between expansions.

[@Libert1n3]

@@AceInTheSpade The delay was over a year ago. They will have had like 15 months to improve the final shape. I understand development has a process but have you ever heard of crunch? Pretty common practice in the gaming industry, like it or not. They absolutely crunched their asses off to add some extra features. Maybe not all of them but certainly some of them. I would say prismatic got pushed forward and/or they crunched the extra enemy race since they already have 2 units and are rest are mostly, if not completely, made up of assets already in the game.

[@Cloud-hp5cu]

@@Libert1n3sales were not down 40%, they missed their revenue target by 40%. Sales could be up and they could still miss their target.

[@TonyGunz916]

If destiny 3 is real, bungie BETTER NOT start it like d2 where all the good quality of life aspects of D1 were gone and slowly implemented into D2… craftable weapons off the rip, Prismatic available, 250k glimmer cap, no trash weapons with one perk slot at the start (guns like OG scathlocke) D3 NEEDS to release with all the D2 QoL off the rip. No questions asked. Period.

[@LeNeovein]

I agree about the qol but that intro of being absolutely dominated and destroyed was glorious. Kind of a shame our light being gone lasted all of 2 minutes though.

[@Harmi-XD]

Mostly agree, but I wouldn't mind a reset on perks, going back to single perk weapons etc

[@brendenrufh1818]

​@@Harmi-XD No thats terrible. You cant go backwards when the story of the game is is going forward. Were getting stronger and them making the weapons worse wouldn't make any sense. And Destiny is a grind game, without the different weapon perks to chase this game would be long dead

[@thequestbro]

Bungie did that because Activision wanted the game catered to esports bullshit like all of their other games. I don't think that is going to happen this time.

[@chrisn3819]

Uhhh…fuck crafting. That’s normie shit.

[@emmo00x]

lol just yesterday I thought about the possibility of a creator chat episode dropping due to the TFS stream, thank u these are really nice to listen to

[@unknownplayer03]

Enjoy!

[@carlphillips3876]

They did not “just create” prismatic in three months. Its aligns perfectly from a narrative perspective. They were planning this all along. They were just waiting for the right moment to announce it. Why show their best hand too soon? I think their timing is perfect. If they would have shown it earlier, the community was so negative then, they would have called it “reskinned” or something. Bungie did the right thing here.

[@BillyNahar]

When it all ends, will you 2 do a podcast covering the entire first saga of Destiny? Like a hindsight review on whether it was all worth it, all of the expansions / seasons / DLC across the 10 years? Would you go back to 2014 and get into Destiny again? When you weigh up everything, would you recommend it to any family or friends to get into? That would be an interesting debate to see.

[@BowPlayKay]

PRISMATIC was definitely in the cards before August, I just don't think it was ready for a reveal by then and they needed more time to get it out the door. Prismatic may have been the reason they delayed because they still didn't have it fully fleshed out.

[@Saint-14Plays]

honestly i think prismatic was what caused the push of the 3.0 system. made the subclasses modular for the future plans

[@BowPlayKay]

@@Saint-14Plays that makes perfect sense!

[@aljazslemc9569]

@Saint-14Plays 100% probably why we didn't get a second subclass in witch queen and got it in Lightfall instead. Space things out instead of giving us back to back light subclass content and making sure they had time to see how the meta had settled before taking the less popular aspects and building prismatic with them, in order to bring variety

[@pencilswordfish]

​@@Saint-14Plays I said the same in some random reddit post a few days ago, the Subclass 3.0 system and Subclass Verbs makes perfect sense why they had to do that revamp to set up the 'under the hood' systems to make Prismatic work. Obviously not in this current state, but I'm willing to bet Prismatic as a rough concept or prototype has probably been in development for some time now. At the very least, the clearest indication Prismatic has been solid I think was during the development of RON, it has a lot of similar themes, artwork, and Conditional Finality, etc.

[@JUNIsLuke]

I like this thread it makes alot of sense

[@krisdzeel6408]

Don't forget that Bungie once said that ghorn wouldn't return to D2...

[@eCroz_8611]

Joe Blackburn said a while ago that they were holding a good portion of TFS close to their chest. There's no way they did all of this in just a few months. More likely they were using those extra time to polish the game.

[@natcoo8153]

Doesn't the color scheme in veil containment have that 3rd sclass on the floor along with the others? If we include this with what braytech and neomuna then we have the means to manipulate both Veil and traveler power and transcend. We're given the light, we can take the dark. Now we merge and I bet that's what veil containment was for. Merging

[@svenhent]

Think about it: We were crashing into a failed demo of Prismatic by Nezarec when we raided him. Poor guy was trying to fix the damn thing but we killed him delaying the Prismatic release.

[@tylerp2476]

Could you go into more detail please

[@Kirostratus]

@@tylerp2476Nezarec is a creature of the darkness, resurrected by the power of the light. The beam of light the traveller shot at the Witness’ pyramid during the light fall opening sequence kickstarted his resurrection. It’s why he releases pulses of both light and darkness during his encounter in the raid, he’s struggling to comprehend his new powers and it’s surging from within him.

[@emyron1843]

Damn, I didn't even think about that, but you're absolutely right, RoN was our introduction to Prismatic, we just didn't know it yet. That raid may not be my favorite for fun factor, but lore wise it's one of the coolest raids we've ever gotten.

[@wendiiig0-Youtube]

a point on the gateways somewhere in the reef 1:17:48: in the new whisper reprised mission, if you go up to the vex portal in the mission you can see a different image from what it originally was(vault of glass) it has now changed to a purple foggy place that looks to me looks like somewhere in the reef. could these 2 places be linked?

[@KingPrizm]

So happy Byf made the point of restoring the sunset content. I would be totally fine with a total reset in a D3 if it meant that all of D2's campaigns were playable like how D1 is now. Preservation of those stories is something I don't alot of Destiny players care about enough. The Red War is what made me the Destiny fan I am today.

[@m3tr0id86]

And having an offline mode would actually be nice. Because I had Phantasy Star. Online for the OG Xbox and I had an offline mode so it didn't require an internet connection 24/7 when I just felt like fighting monsters or playing the missions that did have their own lore, just for giggles

[@rickrusaw915]

Agreed, while the gameplay of vanilla D2 was mid, the red war campaign made me FEEL things, something not a lot of destiny story can do, as much as I love the lore. Really wish they'd give it back to us

[@Grassdia]

I hope if D3 does come along they keep class identity since that’s such a fundamental part of destiny

[@envagyokacuncu]

I agree so much with the idea of fighting alongside characters. It only happened during the Red War and Splicer. It felt good to be on the field with the Vanguard and Mithrax. More of that please!

[@aljazslemc9569]

We also fought alongside redjacks in Shadowkeep, along Caitl and her legion in Lightfall season of the haunted had a mission with the Cabal forces, which im pretty sure served as a prototype for the new arms dealer strike. Season of the lost and season of dawn we fought alongside Saint-14. They're doing it more and more, i just hope that they really commit to it with their next big project. Or maybe even TFS, we're sending all our guardians into the Traveler, that sounds like the biggest thing since Twilight gap

[@envagyokacuncu]

@@aljazslemc9569 True, I forgot about those. Coincidently, both campaigns are rather mid.

[@BrainWasherAttendent]

They didn’t magically come up with prismatic in 3 months. They just needed more time for it all to come together fully. 3 months isn’t that long.

[@Cumbernumb]

While no I don’t think they used those 3 months just to make Prismatic but I did think it gave them a chance to complete it. They most likely started its development after the reception of the Lightfall trailer and reveal being received poorly along with preorder sales. Prismatic by itself it less work to create then an entirely new subclass, just due to the fact it’s just a mishmash of other existing ones. No need to create a new color, particle effect, logo for the subclass, entirly new supers and lore

[@looksnormal]

I'm not convinced that Prismatic was what they've been working on considered how simplistic the concept is. My theory is that it was either a bonus meant to be included after the campaign, or it was pulled forward from a later expansion due to the new Darkness subclass still being under development, likely because the delay still didn't give the devs enough time to figure it all out. Prismatic's inclusion in the campaign would either be it simply taking the place of the unfinished subclass, or a quick work in, as they pulled all the voice lines and such referencing it from a later expansion Admittedly, there isn't a lot of concrete proof, except for the fact that Prismatic is pink, while the leaked subclass uses a distinct red hue, and has unique icons that Prismatic doesn't appear to use.

[@devanandham6609]

@@Cumbernumb Lol prism is arguably more work for bungie than making a brand new subclass. New animations, icons, particle effects are not a huge task for a studio of bungie's caliber. It's the balancing that takes longer. A new subclass would;ve had 3 nades, 3 supers, 3 melees, 3 subclass verbs and handful of aspects and fragments. Balancing is done purely vertically. Whereas prism is a combination of all 3 classes along with aspects, fragments etc. Balancing is done both vertically and horizontally. Doing something like prism not only requires lots of playtesting but also fundamental changes to how aspects and fragments work. Besides we are also getting 3 supers(which have it's own animations, particle effects, icons that you mentioned), aspects etc. Interms of production prism is a way bigger task for bungie than a new subclass

[@shinkenrock]

I do think there is the possibility of having it planned for after final shape and ultimately deciding to bring it for final shape.

[@monosito59]

@@looksnormal Prismatic must have been part of the plan all along. Like Byff said, it ties into the narrative in some type of way and you kind of need that to be locked in as part of the story before other stuff. But I do think that it just wasnt ready when they did the reveal. They mightve always planned to hold off on showing it but these 3 months of delay definitely let them breathe and polish it. But while simplistic in concept, it's anything but. Were talking several elements that apart from fringe cases like conditional finality, remained entirely separate from each other. They each have effects intrinsic to them. And now theyre making it so stasis shurikens can contribute to things like gunpowder gamble while having a strand grapple grenade equipped, then upon activating transcendence, have that grenade become a dual type effect entirely different from strand and entirely different in nature to gunpowder gamble, acting like void spike? From a development standpoint, that doesnt sound like a simple thing to come up with in 3 months.

[@Dorian_Kellum]

You guys are dead-on with what I would need from a Destiny 3 to make it worthwhile. Here’s my list: - Allies on missions (with dialogue) - I’d love to see more fleshed out planets. More open ended map design instead of just the closed off zone type layout. We’ve been teased Old Chicago for years now, we’ve got some Jovians I still want to see, Triton has GIANT SPIDERS, we still haven’t found that colony of pacifist Guardians, Vex Dyson Sphere, need I say more? - Deeper ship dynamics. The HELM could be the template for our interstellar starship. Vault, crafting, maybe test room. - Other races, not all of them hostile. - Deeper weapon customization. One of the things that annoyed me when D2 launched was mods on weapons. They should have been the perks and sights that can either roll on weapons or are more universal attachments we can see on our weapon.

[@willpackson5]

I hope they keep and improve of character customization if Destiny 3 happens.

[@monosito59]

Man I would love to find the place where the Sunbreakers made their final stand in vanilla D2. Maybe liberate it from whatever started squatting there and setup an outpost.

[@Dorian_Kellum]

@@willpackson5 yep! That goes on the list too.

[@frijolitodr]

Hope they use Unreal Engine this time around and ditch their old 25+ spaguetti engine.

[@jacobboucher777]

What about space combat? Be able to upgrade our ships and sparrows with guns and tools? What about player housing? Clan halls? SRL needs to come back. The Aphellion still exists. The Fallen's homeworld, the Cabal's homeworld, the Hive's homeworld. How about being able to play as allied races, I.E. Fallen, Cabal, and hopefully Hive soon. How about being able to play as a "corrupt" guardian to doesn't have access to the Light? Fireteams larger than 6?

[@grayden4138]

Random observation: The reflection of Byf's monitors cast on his glasses always makes it look like he's got purple eye shadow on.

[@BrazarB]

1:22:00 hot take(?) Savathun having a hand in everything gets old, I get she's a manipulator/trickster, but her possibly having a scheme behind everything gets annoying/tiring, she is a good character tho

[@aljazslemc9569]

I think what makes her interesting is just how much was a scheme and how much just kinda worked out. It makes sense she tried to plan for every contingency regarding TFS since she had hundreds of years to plan, knowing what the witness intended to do during the collapse. I think beyond that, things will no longer all be Savathun's plan. She'll definitely have some sort of scheme going, but even during her stint as as Osiris, she seemed to have to improvise somewhat. Its just that so far we're all very predictable in what we do, and the witness is too, in its single minded pursuit of the final shape.

[@AUDIEtheONE]

Same with Mara Sov.

[@chrisn3819]

The idea that bungie just whipped up prismatic and the dread within the past 9 months is the epitome of gamer brain rot on steroids.

[@Mythios9853]

​@@zubrhero5270 Your uncle is Luke Smith? Damn you sure know a lot about what the "original plans" were! Is this Joe's alt account? Where did you get your "totally legit and totally NOT made up" info?

[@chrisn3819]

​@@Mythios9853 Nope...I just have an IQ over 80. Look at the preorder fusion rifle that was in the game almost a year ago. Its the exact same colors and aesthetic as prismatic.

[@oddlyenoughproductions1674]

Being a dick completely disintegrates the validity of your point, FYI.

[@nullandvoid7524]

To the people saying "They came up with Prismatic because Pre-orders are low." That makes literally no sense, it's not possible for them to do in this short period of time. I also believe that we are still getting the Red Subclass either at the end of the Campaign or it wil at least be hinted at. Prismatic is a perfect distraction to keep something like that a surprise.

[@blackbelt352-dd]

Timelines for development are measured in years for games of this size. If I had to guess at a timeline, Prismatic probably began planning not long before Witch Queen, where they realized the needed to update the light subclasses to 3.0 to make the end goal work. They've probably been in prototyping it throughout Witch Queen, and gathering information about the 3.0 light subclasses to inform the design, drop Strand with Lightfall and begin the bulk of the dev work on Prismatic, while also taking in the lessons of Light 3.0 and Strand, and just needed more time and polish the final product. Honestly it feels more like Bungie should be on a 1 and a half year content cycle, but unfortunately financials for the execs and shareholders are done by quarters and years and they want returns now.

[@knightofavalon86]

What I really like about prismatic is that you seem to be in this middle space between light and dark, and that's reflected in the powers you have access to, but if you NEED more out of either the light or dark as kit you have to lean into it i.e go put on the actual subclass. You have to leave the middle space and inhabit one or the other for a while.

[@thelucariamonarchs4889]

I have to agree with Byf on the whole introduction of Trascendence* on the dev timeline. It was definitely in the works befofe the delay thing but they didnt wanted to show it, when the lay offs began I remember the director coming forward with a video on his own explaining whats gonna happen and I fully remember addressing TFS reveals. "TFS is the culmination of light/dark saga and we know we haven't said much because we are still hiding cards under our sleeves" And that's what I want to believe that it was the subclass and new enemies. kzbin.info/www/bejne/m4Stdax3frSeaMUsi=hMZIn2DJZdRcp8I5 6:09

[@kylemccormack1785]

Transcendence*

[@thelucariamonarchs4889]

@@kylemccormack1785 right lol

[@insomniaddictesp]

I have to disagree with one point. I think not putting Well on prismatic will end up making Welllocks that are locked to Well permanently locked. It would have been nice to have Well, but have the class grenade and other weaker options so we can run well, but still use other stuff if Bungie isn’t getting rid of it or greatly reducing its efficacy.

[@darkshotmk3]

Following up on the companion idea from byf. If that can happen then that also means we could get actural guardian like bosses. Like imagine you get a bounty to hunt down an enemy thats been affecting city supply lines. You track them down only to discover a person and not just any person buy a rogue lightbearer. And you enter a boss fight. Would be cool

[@timykroell5831]

The class item they showed on the Titan had star eaters scales perk and ophidians so a Titan had a perk from a hunter and a warlock Also when byf mentioned worm husk on titans being a possible I audibly cursed My wife said what.. I explained and she too audibly cursed lmao

[@starkraven1148]

Bungie didn’t show it because it wasn’t In a good enough state to show it. It’s possible it’s part of why it was delayed. There’s no way they could’ve made that in 3 months. It’s a few months away so I would hope it was good enough to show now

[@Lachlan_McDougall]

Byf is completely right there’s no possibility they made this in a few months and then implement it into the whole campaign etc there’s just no chance

[@bdelatour57]

i personally think that the new things didn't reach a certain level of polish and they would release trailers to show them to build more hype towards the original release of the final shape but the lay offs messed everything up

[@MyRecencyBias2]

NEW EPISODE LETS GO

[@Yodapilled]

The point about having characters play alongside you is fucking brilliant we need this

[@LowLifeDust]

Anyone who thinks Prism subclass was last minute I think not. If you look at the pre-order exotic is has the Prism colors on with all the all the other subclass colors, It adapts its damage type to your subclass and also has a grenade transmutation that eats your grenade, kind of reverse of the new "Super Grenades" where you create a more powerful grenade I have seen other with the similar thought, I think Bungie wanted to surprise us for once and their hands were forced to show it for extra hype.

[@ed5985]

I think people need to rein in their expectations of the Dread being a whole faction of enemies. I think they're most likely going to be small but impactful encounters between fighting established factions. Kind of like how tormentors ambush you while not necessarily being part of whatever faction is present. I hope I'm wrong but

[@kylemccormack1785]

There's enough there to constitute a "new faction". They have melee bruisers, ranged fliers, debuff casters, field commanders.... plus there's always the option of having us fight the Dread WITH the Hive, or Dread AND Shadow Legion Cabal. They could serve as an augmenting force.

[@ed5985]

@@kylemccormack1785 Yeah I think there's a very good chance (if not a better chance) that you're right and they'll be mixed in with existing factions.

[@GM-lx7ji]

I do feel like the episodes will only serve as setting the stage for each faction or hint towards new factions in a future expansion or destiny 3. I do agree with Destiny 3 being a good chance to be a new start point for both old and new players, and if Bungie decides to build D3 to last as long as D2 has they probably will have to do a massive engine overhaul to make sure they don’t ever have to do a sunsetting of content like they did in the past.

[@DeathsPit00]

I think that during the TFS reveal stream back in August they already had Prismatic and the Dread planned out and maybe even started, but that they weren't complete and they weren't sure if they'd be able to complete them in time, then they got the extra 3 months and that gave them enough time to actually get them done. I think this specifically because they only showed 2 of the Dread, the new Light Supers, and said straight out that we weren't getting a new subclass, which idc what anyone says, Prismatic IS a new subclass. Another reason that I think this specifically about the Dread is because 2 of them are reskinned Psions, which I assume was done specifically due to time constraints whereas every other Dread has a newish character model(I think the one with the blades is a reskinned Dreg or Vandal, but could be wrong as Bungie actually told us that the Psion ones are reskins). The People that think that they got all of that done within the 3 month delay window are seriously reaching on that one. I'm not a game dev, but I know how much time goes into things like that and it would take quite a bit longer than 3 months. All together the Prismatic Subclass alone would take at least 8 or 9 months to build, test, and reiterate.

[@JClutchNA]

One thing i would actually like to see in D3 would be changes to how armor is in the game. I want to see them go towards the terraria armor route. Since leaker mention that the Idea is we will be a universal guardian with the abilities of Warlock/Titan/Hunter. An example of an armor set. There could be a Hunter focused armor set. Each piece gives bonus mobility. The full set bonus gives bonus damage to throwing knives. The set would also give a hunter type look. That's just a basic idea for armor set of course. There could be numerous different bonus or sets depending on whatever bungie wants to cook up. They could even throw in equipables that give bonus to certain sub classes or abilities. But idk if they want to go that crazy with farming gear. It would be cool though. They could ditch armor mods with this method and casuals would be able to understand it easier by seeing they need a matching set. There could be exotic equipables instead of it being armor. Synergies with equipables for more advance players to configure into there build niche. If armor exotics do stay. Then maybe it would act as a armor bonus set of its own and you just get the bonus stats from the rest of the armor. I like this because casuals could just work on basic armor sets to still be somewhat relevant and its more straightforward. I could see this as a win win for sweats and casuals because the amount of times I've seen random players with the most random mods or no mods makes me sad. Keep the usual ornaments and shaders system as well of course or make it better. This would also fix a problem that i find kind of lame about Destiny currently is that most armor in the game is just different looks and styles that offer nothing. I'm aware of seasonal event buffs and specific raid/dungeon buffs but that's kind of all we have for armor sets. Artifice could be something we need raid/master dungeon material to go beyond masterwork that gives that artifice bonus. I'm also aware they are tryna reduce the amount of currency's in the game but i like my idea.

[@thetismo9055]

Not sure how I feel about the possibility of Destiny 3 doing way with classes, but I really like the class identities. Only time will tell. Would love a spin off where Onslaught is expanded to a full game and you could play as cabal or eliskni.

[@iJM89]

I Guess the Vex will make their move after The Final Shape when we defeat? The Witness due to the fact that The Vex may be afraid of The Witness so I think because of us The Vex will make their biggest move to date. We still have Savathun, Xivu Arath, The Vex, The Nine, Eramis...Bungie can make a Story worth sticking around for.

[@RobRush]

the red sublcass is prismatic - it looks like they just didn't have it done in time for the reveal

[@shekel2356]

It always surprises me how much Byf looks like a Disney character. Definitely not in a bad way either

[@Pontooniak96]

I genuinely want to see a Destiny rpg, or more rpg elements incorporated into a Destiny live service. Especially with games like Starfield out in the wild, Destiny’s universe would absolutely enamor new players.

[@bradedwards5956]

We need a super eery dark area in the story where a load of Grim come flying out at you and jump scare. That would be epic

[@samuelgames8970]

I think people also forget, that people like myself who joined destiny after the first sunsets, we have no clue wtf is going on in half the stories we see now as 1) we missed out on a bunch of the inital campaigns like the red war and 2) we also miss out on all the lore from all those + future seasons if we aren't around to play them (and this isn't just new players). I still don't understand why bungie hasn't tried to properly remedy this, cause to me the biggest hurdle by far for new players is just how we miss out on SO MUCH lore and content that as you guys say we may never get back. Overall though, awesome video. I am hella excited for the final shape and also a possible D3, even as a stupidly casual and still rather new player.

[@v.e.s2884]

Destiny 3 we should have are old gear from destiny 2 that be cool to start

[@christopherwilliams384]

I get the sense that byf is right on when. They had this planned for a while. What I think happened was making the new faction and new subclass was taking a lot longer to make than they anticipated. They showed us what they had finished during that first reveal and delayed it to finish what they had already started. Like the rest was 70% done but not enough to show off yet. They then used players' reactions to finish baking and add the icing.

[@lumistrad]

The dread and prismatic were planned at the same time as final shape. Nothing were added during the delay because they would not have enough time.

[@danranger2821]

so what do you reckon the delay was for?

[@lumistrad]

@@danranger2821 hard to be sure but i think they just wasn't ready. 6 month gives time to tweak encounters, build up areas, change layouts a bit. Anything that does not require character models or voice work could be added or changed.

[@GhostRydr1172]

1:25: I legit haven't cared about loot or cosmetic in ages, ever since the while BL sunsetting fiasco. So, I will not care to lose D2 loot I don't care for new loot I won't grow sentimental over in D3. This may sound odd since it is a looter shooter but ultimately its Bungie's fault for making loot irrelevant.

[@brandona9326]

Agreed. So much grind for so much stuff that no longer matters. I'd like full reset with different ways to earn the weapons we want.

[@SPERMania]

1thing i would love added to the game MORE than anything is the ability to go back and watch every cutscene that i have viewed. Even Final Fantasy 14 has this ability. I can literally go back and view every single cutscene in the game that i have unlocked and viewed at anytime i want too. It also uses my characters current look in the cutscenes. I would LOVE this feature in Destiny 2.

[@jimosborn3411]

Byf's voice is paid actor. "Umbra"..."Thunderment"... "Paracausal energies"

[@BasicWorldbuilder]

Listening to the cognitive dissonance going on about "bungie scrambled to put this together in 3 months" is always fundamentally missing the point of, theres a big difference between something being complete and functional versus it being good enough to sell a game. The new super, new enemies etc were definitely already planned and maybe even complete. But not ready for the community to get their hands on them. Getting the jank out and adding a high quality pass is time consuming, especially when theres stuff going on at the studio. This is clearly what happened with the which queen and strand which was way more thematic to that expansion. The point is, we dont really know what goes on there, but creating these new assets and super could never happen in this short a timeline.

[@travousbieber3939]

Right?! I mean, how out of touch can you possibly be? And when it’s your job no less. Thank god content creators are paid to be entertaining rather than informative, because if we relied on these goons for news, we’d all be clueless.

[@Pajemmy]

Have so much new respect for byf for explaining all this shit to somone

[@ammod4827]

this my theory prismatic was already I the game, but it was more of a final shape campaign gimmick instead of an entire subclass. they probably decided to turn prismatic into a subclass with an extra grenade and a new animation added to it. I bet that the dread were already in concept because the devs really wanted to have a new race, but the executives decided to drop feed the new race per expansion/episode (the dread couldve already been close to being made and the rest was coming in the episodes). now that their backs are against a wall, they let the devs do a new race. and the class item was 100% made in the last few months

[@NexEstVox]

Pro D3 refresh but anti-sunsetting, why the disconnect?

[@ben13254]

With a D3 I would love to see a True Open World games, with the ability to play D1/D2 stories, as something like Flashbacks

[@kieranbramley4714]

For seasonal content, I’d love to see a playlist that rotates that has old stuff (like the 6 player activities) and add old seasonal missions to the timeline. I’d love to play sever missions or the missions from Seraph

[@WebHeadParker62]

If you watch the First reveal, when the titan pops the new Subclass Ult , He doesnt light up purple with void. He lights up pink. They 100% had prismatic set up, they just didnt tell us.

[@hypez9460]

Prismatic and Transcendence were defo supposed to be the focus point of Destiny 3. Thinking they pushed it up after having a bad reveal. Giving them 6 months or so to actually get it fit for play.

[@OsirisAusar9]

Wow, what a switch i was completely opposite. I heard the voices and was looking at the wrong person. I thought the video was lagging, LOL great video guys 😆👍

[@al3xwoo]

Watching your videos are so nostalgic, just reminds me of the good old destiny days

[@multimus1327]

I think its very obvious that the new subclasses were planned for launching in an Episode, but due to poor pre-orders made the delay to add it on to The Final Shape. Leaks seem to indicate this, as well as the initial Final Shape reveal.

[@Toadsmoothie]

Man Final Shape is looking pretty great... Love the podcast :)!

[@Illicitpopsicle]

Re: the initial conversation about the prismatic subclass/transcendence being made in the gap between the first August reveal and the one a couple weeks ago, we all need to keep in mind that the expansion was still in an alpha development build in that first reveal. It's more than possible (in fact, highly likely) that they were working on prismatic/transcendence but it wasn't ready to be shown, whether from a technical or even aesthetic perspective. Same thing goes with the rest of the Dread. It's also possible that, if the layoff hadn't forced their hand early, TFS would still have needed three extra months in the oven, they would have announced the delay back in like February, and we'd all be even more pissed off than we are.

[@AceInTheSpade]

Sunsetting wasn't the issue. It was how it was implemented. Power creep is making weapons essentially feel useless the more loot they add. Despite bungie evolving weapons a TON since beyond light.

[@Killingblaze]

So the thing about the “red” subclass, even though some of the icons are different then what the showed of, maybe new class stuff for the episodes, the new solar class color is the same bright red instead of the orange it use to be.

[@MiBrCo4177]

I feel like prismatic should be something that occurs when you equip and exotic in every slot, including all three weapons being exotic. It would give you a massive damage boost and upgrade boost compared to the new factions that we might face in this new expac and this could also be a stepping off point for destiny 3 if it ever becomes a thing.

[@devo2920]

Hopping back into destiny 2, it’s good to see your back

[@endgamexpress]

Great video/podcast guys, I always look forward to these

[@JetLagRecords]

Unknown Player, Yay! I liked this video so much, it made me smile!

[@BowPlayKay]

Luke Smith is managing the projects beyond the game, like TV Series/Movies and multimedia stuff.

[@SlashNXS]

They've said that for like 4 years with not even a peep, I'll believe it when I see it

[@BowPlayKay]

@SlashNXS stuff like that takes time and for all we know they may start releasing that stuff next year when they have no big DLC to push the franchise.

[@sthelens1011]

The rumour is that it prismatic was not for the final shape and was actually part of the d3 plans but moved it to the final shape as they felt they needed more to make final shape special. this is but a window as to their overall plans of d3s plans of making guardians free of class limitations they are set to be your just a guardian and depending on the abilities used it what you can use not limited to hunter warlock and titan specific. makes sense as by lore there is no reason why other classes cant use other class abilities

[@theGzusMan]

Low key imo, if the finale shape still gives us that drip feed model , it will still feel distasteful and won't be as good as forsaken was, the lore and story is absolutely amazing but its the way bungie delivers it to the players has me worried but we'll see it through to the end eh ...

[@AlexanderWinship]

Hey Unknown what glasses are those? I just ordered a pair of OP Finlays and they look similar.

[@thandokhan1962]

Could the veiled statues we found on the pyramid ships represent Rorschach?

[@jacobbb1423]

Something no one is talking about is I think prismatic was teased for a while because of the raid in lightfall where u have to use light and dark buffs throughout the raid, also the tessalation exotic has all the elements on the gun and the catalyst will probably allow u to use the verbs and maybe insert transcendence grenade. I might be reaching but it’s interesting.

[@Mannyshevitz]

Damn huh blast from the past homie. Hope all is well

[@shadowstorm9363]

Since this could very well be the last raid, I hope we get an encounter where we find every enemy (fallen cabal hive scorn taken vex), rest encounters can all be the new enemy faction that they are adding. Also I'm wondering after beating the Witness, do we get back IO, Mars and rest of the areas that the Witness had taken over.....

[@No_Context_Thoughts]

Im just saying after Byf's comment about eliksni being the grimm, their weapons in the trailer immediately reminded me of shock pistols

[@WannabeVTS]

There's also like, a lot of loose ends not finished up, Xivu, the fanatic, the many rogue guardians, whatever the fuck the drifter is on about, psions, savathun got away, the hive still have the light, the vex are literally never ending, the entire dark timeline? There need to be an encounter in PvE where we fight another guardian for once, dark guardians would be amazing fights, the Nine who have done literally nothing for years As long as D3 has a new game engine, it will succeed

[@MrNoble1997]

I think you're being really delusional about how easy it is to make an entirely new engine. That could be a decade of development

[@WannabeVTS]

@@MrNoble1997 they say destiny 2 is and all they have removed it is over 130 gig, they can easily switch to unreal or something like that, I'm not saying make an entirely new engine, but this one cannot handle what we already have

[@KuruIShere]

@@WannabeVTSit’s not easy at all lmao, that can take a decade depending on team size, it’s rather complicated.

[@Baffoono]

Thanks to your channel helped mine grow a little. Ty man

[@AUDIEtheONE]

Honestly, I think Bungie needs to work bringing back the content they removed back into D2 before thinking about D3

[@adampeabody963]

I still stand by the idea that we should get one final single element subclass. I think that prismatic is incomplete with only 5 elements. If you add a 6th, you can play perfectly off that prismatic is the 7th and is perfect hence the number 7 representing perfection and completion. Edit: here's some idea! The 6th subclass as an almost technomancer type thing. Like allow us to utilise nanotechnology, not for physical upgrades like the Cloudstriders do so much, but to manipulate it as a weapon? I mean there's the argument that a creative type subclass is taken up by Strand? If Stasis is opposed Solar, what does Strand oppose, and what light class doesn't have its darkness opposite in subclass form? Maybe if void and strand naturally oppose, then the opposite of a lightning subclass (arc) is a sound wave subclass (thunder)? You could call it Rupture, and it would be the kinetic element.

[@m3tr0id86]

For the "backs against the way Bungie" to the "we can't over deliver to not make other expansions look bad" that Justin Truman said at a GDC that had a massive dislike ratio. This is what is shown when the executives stay in their lanes and sit in a corner and let the devs cook and make fantastic stuff like Onslaught and SRL.

[@TheXeroLink]

I still think they're wish dragons 32:10 Because we went to great length to save Riven's eggs but how do we know more weren't taken

[@qwertyisaboss]

A 4 month delay is probably mostly used to flesh out and polish what’s already made and done. I’m sure they had some ideas and concepts that weren’t really 100% and needed more time. I’d also like to mention that Paul Taussi talked to a dev and they said “what do you think we could’ve made in that time?” Making it sound like they have an ace up their sleeve which could be a numerous amount of things.

[@matthewzehnder1466]

Honest question. I stopped playing maybe a year or two before Witch Queen. I've missed a lot. Do you think it's worth reinstalling Destiny 2 and hopping in when the Final Shape drops? Or is it too early to tell?

[@travousbieber3939]

It’s ABSOLUTELY worth it right now. Shadowkeep, Beyond Light, Witch Queen, and all four Lightfall seasons are free right now; as is the entirety of Into The Light, which is inclusive of 2 brand new game modes. Lightfall is on sale for $25 on Xbox right now, so probably similar pricing elsewhere too. If you can find it for that price and purchase it, you’d have FOUR YEARS of content for $25. …D2 players are eating good right now.

[@MohaganyXD]

I don’t think the timeline is 3 months it seems it’s like 5-6 months depending on how much Joe knew about how fucked they were gonna be

[@kirittv]

Here to listen

[@Major_fyre]

U could also have us travel to where lady efrideet is located as an outpost

[@danielduffee2279]

Prism might have been in development since Beyond Light and its development difficulties could be why Lightfall was split off of The Final Shape, with Strand having been pulled forward and fleshed out for Lightfall and new Light subclasses developed for TFS to replace it. Would explain why the weird story beats existed and how integral learning strand (originally prismatic?) was to its campaign…. But who knows.

[@aatrophy5998]

In regard to the theory of the fallen being the flying things, wasn’t it mentioned in a recent lore release (I want to say the collectors edition but I don’t remember) that the witness couldn’t create life without the light, only twist it? So it would make sense if the dread was just twisted versions of its forces.

[@Joshetou]

Makes total sense for them to have all of this planned out way in advanced for Final Shape. Like Byf says, game development takes a WHILE. Scrapping everything in December to build it back up would be impossible in every single scenario

[@TheXeroLink]

9:23 I'm with BYF I think this has been in the works since the Subclass 3.0 stuff. I think when they reworked the subclasses it was for us to get used to aspects and fragments and I would say it was in the works since Beyond Light.

[@NNater1990]

Byf: Do you remember shadowkeep? I don’t think I’ve ever felt the excitement of seeing that pyramid in Destiny before lol. Caydes return could have done it had it been kept secret. Crazy to think about

[@Nownadda]

Great episode gents keep up that conversation!

[@pluto1730]

ONE thing I hope happens in d3 if it happens. Is being able to physical switch between random rolled scopes or sights on my weapons. Barrels would change and stock would change. Just like the old black armory weapons 😮‍💨

[@Atticuss187]

A huge thing to remember are these developers are people. Writers block is just as big of a thing in game development as it is in novel writing. It's difficult to come up with new mindblowing content year after year and month after month. We as gamers need to understand that filler content in live service games is acceptable, so that the developers can take a breather and become inspired to make something truly gamebreaking and then reign it back in to create something with a wow factor again.

[@Doriantheloreian]

Byf says according to "Devs thats not how the timelines work"- except we dont know if Lightfalls story is cohesive yet, and Sony and stated Bungie has has trouble hitting deadlines.

[@Zed-1213]

Doesn't that further prove his point that higher quality development requires a significant amount of time to take place?

[@kotonibaggs1409]

Imagine they added a secret 6th subclass type but it’s a reward once worlds first completed

[@interstellerasian]

one of my thoughts is that Prismatic may have been planned for release slightly later in the year and so they bumped up it’s ship date to be alongside TFS

[@zenpai3271]

It would be really cool if Destiny would make it to where we could lose to the witness, but like if we don't get enough teams through his raid within the 48 hours, or something like that, triggered events to end off the final shape. Meaning we could win or we could lose depending on the community is participation