Lever Gun Series: The 1876 Winchester

In this episode of the Lever Gun Series we discuss the 1876 Winchester.
We believe that this rifle, chambered in 45-60, was the possibly the best combat arm of its time that never saw combat.
InRange is entirely viewer supported:
/ inrangetv

[@michaelwood1279]

A match with a Winchester and revolver against a Springfield and 1911 would be interesting

[@Chasmodius]

That 1911 on its own might make a big difference compared with the revolver. 8 (or 7) rounds, probably faster reloads (assuming multiple magazines), possibly faster follow-on shots. A lot of that will be down to preparation and training, and perhaps the revolver would be easier to train to for a military?

[@CrysResan]

Using a S&W Model 3, or schofield could even that up a notch.

[@michaelwood1279]

If they had speed loaders or moon clips for a A Schofield could possibly even it up

[@richardelliott9511]

@@CrysResan if it's up to Karl that will be the choice. Will be fun to see where Ian goes, Schofield or Bisley.

[@mechghost5742]

Well......if the revolver and lever were both in (for example) 44-40, would make ammo supply a bit easier.

[@Batmack]

When i was a kid, i could spend afternoons with my grandparents watching movies, and it was not unusual to have a WW1 movie right after a western, wich left me wondering why wouldn't they have used winchesters if they were older and, by what i saw, better than the bolt actions. As i grew up i learnt about stuff like clip loading, spitzer ammo, the assumed lesser reliability of lever actions and other reasons to justify why they werent used, and i was satisfied with the explanation. Then you guys come along and i'm back at square one.

[@CountArtha]

Spitzer bullets really are a game-changer when you're talking about machine guns, or even entrenched troops firing in volleys. Still, for specialized shock troops this kind of kit would be an improvement. I remain skeptical that you could equip an entire army this way, given the relatively intense training and supply problems that would attend it.

[@Batmack]

@@CountArtha Trench raiders with Winchester 1892 carbines? I wonder how would 44-40 do against steel helmets or cuirasses, but certainly they could be handy

[@nirfz]

The russians and if i'm correct the ottomans too used Lever Action Rifles in WW1. Othias has some videos about lever action rifles in WW1 (c&rsenal)

[@Batmack]

@@nirfz Yep, the 95. Apparently it was their favourite. Imho, it could be easily one of the best repeaters of the war.

[@machintelligence]

@@Batmack The model 95 used a vertical magazine, so it could safely use pointed bullets.

[@dudesqr]

I'd like to see you gents build a 1880 "special forces" kit. Such as you don't have to wear blue wool tunics and such.

[@alexvogel610]

I wonder if it would look like the scout units of the Apache wars?

[@Devin_Stromgren]

I've been working on designing such a uniform since the very first "what if lever gun" video.

[@Batmack]

Cavalry single point slings, wagons with swivel mounted minigatlings in 44-40, dynamo detonated directional canister shot mines...

[@dankdark974]

This x100. What would it look like if troops back then wore camo, quick access ammo carriers, etc

[@Devin_Stromgren]

Camo seems unlikely, but the Army actually did have a brown canvas uniform in the 1880s that was intended for manual labor, aka fatigue duty. Add some patch pockets and you have a decent summer combat uniform.

[@kaptunkordan6656]

An era where the civilians had more firepower than the army

[@sandervanduren2779]

kaptunkordan the way the founders intended

[@mikef3808]

and cocaine chewing gum, an ancap paradise.

[@tylerwilliams6022]

I'm glad some people realize most laws aren't to protect us, but control us.

[@williampan29]

I don't know there were that many us civilians that own artilleries and canons at the time

[@luansagara]

@@williampan29 wasnt part of the early US navy made by ships owned by civilians, including the guns?

[@nicolasgruman635]

Something to mention, the US army never adopted the 76 but the RCMP did in 45-75. It was well liked by the mounties and still in service in the 20s in some remote places

[@kentdyer7699]

Nicolas Gruman the '76 was officially used from 1878 to 1914, but like you said, it stayed around longer.

[@rickeyryan303]

but were talking Arm forces, in the states police and Militias did use em..

[@thecanuckredcoat4142]

The RCMP were effectively a military force, doing the same work as the US Army did in the western frontier in the 19th century. Calling them police was a polite fiction to placate the US government who didn't want the British to have military forces where there could potentially be conflict between us and British forces (initially the RCMP were the northwest mounted rifles, renamed to the northwest mounted police with no functional change to for they operated).

[@philips.5563]

Ian's cowboy cartridge catcher is functioning flawlessly.

[@Zeawsomee]

"We could do the full 11+1, but we only have 10 rounds here today" Damn training budget! Was only able to get 10 rounds by grabbing some off the recruits

[@oc4074]

9:55 someone else spotted the brass on Ian's hat?

[@COIcultist]

Look from 09.00 or so and the hat is saving Ian from hot brass on head or down the neck of the shirt.

[@Zeawsomee]

"You see Karl, not only does it keep the sun off my face and protect my neck from hot brass, it can even hold the brass for us to reload!"

[@jaroslavstava3704]

Brasscatcher

[@RockIslandAuctionCompany]

Hi, I'm here for the lever gats.

[@pullnshoot25]

Hehehe.

[@wedohedoshedooowee828]

I think it's awesome that you guys let Ian come in and do videos of your Firearms you're about to sell, thank both Ian AND you guys for bringing such awesome content to us!! You guys and Forgotten weapons are what got me into firearms!

[@RockIslandAuctionCompany]

@@wedohedoshedooowee828 Glad to hear it! Welcome to the expensive club of firearm collecting.

[@wedohedoshedooowee828]

@@RockIslandAuctionCompany Glad to be part of it! I'm a huge fan of you guys, and thanks to the insight and in depth look at firearms you guys provided I'm actually studying to hopefully one day be a Firearms manufacturer/developer. Merry Christmas to all of you at Rock Island and to Mr. Ian and Mr. Karl! Thank you guys for the amazing content and for helping me find my true calling! ♥️

[@prestonvandivier1379]

Hi, I'm here for Ian's hats.

[@josephmaxson3556]

If the 45-60 was adopted by the military, i'm willing to bet it would still be in production and the 45-70 would not be as popular as it is. Being a military cartridge makes a big difference.

[@kekeke4467]

Indeed. if you want to know what the popular civilian cartridge in a particular country you can generally guess it by looking at what the military uses and more often than not they will use that cartridge or one that is very similar. For example NATO countries tend towards 308 and 223 except in cases where there are laws prohibiting their use or there is type of game that requires some thing more powerful e.g. buffalo, bison, elephant

[@frankmcgarry3155]

Except for 30 Krag RIP

[@astrotrek3534]

@@frankmcgarry3155 30 Krag was popular in the 1890s to be fair, just too short of a production run that killed it

[@mikefenton5634]

The ability to proactively reload the magazine I'm sure is more then helpful in a lot of combat situations of the period.

[@aurorawhorealis]

Especially in the typical dug-in fighting common to this period

[@dio3693]

9:50 Ian has a spent casing ontop of his hat

[@wilsonborkowski2984]

I couldn't stop thinking about it.

[@silvercreekslim6008]

That happens quite often in CAS with the toggle links.

[@PaulMauser]

It’s the 1870’s not the 1770’s no one needs a rapid fire, high capacity, lever action assault weapon for hunting and the founding fathers never would have imagined one of these things. We live in more civilized times. Give the deer a chance.

[@wierdalien1]

I wouldn't be surpsied if that wasa conversation that was had. (Yes I know you are being satirical but people don't change)

[@dankdark974]

You dont need an 1876 to defend your home. Get a shotgun!

[@TheOsfania]

@@wierdalien1 I believe that he was being sarcastic, not satirical.

[@wierdalien1]

@@TheOsfania the use of humour, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues. pretty sure that means it is satire

[@tylerwilliams6022]

Sean, quit being such a PC Principal

[@thorjensen9829]

After a hard days work, new inrange posts are the only reason I stay awake until 10pm (aussie eastern time), keep up the choice work lads!

[@jameshealy4594]

Couldn't agree more mate! Apart from making me really miss rifles I can't have, this is one of the best things on youtube.

[@TacticalAccountants]

What is the future like?

[@jameshealy4594]

Manually loaded.

[@solwogan5356]

i love you, james

[@rickeyryan303]

@@jameshealy4594 why can't you have? Authoritarian gun laws?..

[@FreekaPista]

I'd love to see a series on "What if the US used lever action rifles in WW1?" as a followup after this series concludes. This series shows just how much the lever action rifle improved a soldier's effectiveness compared to the previous generation of single shot rifles. But WW1 would put the "proto assault rifle" up against some very modern small arms concepts. Could a Lever Action compete with the Chauchaut, BAR and other Automatic Rifles? Would it be better in a trench than a luger? Could suppressive fire and movement tactics been possible against HMG emplacements? I think there a lot of interesting questions that stem from the first, and would be worthy of exploration.

[@nathanbrown8680]

they're not going to compete with the automatic rifles at all. You can work the action quickly from the shoulder, but you wouldn't be able to do walking fire from the hip. It may be a dumb idea, but it's what the Chauchaut and BAR were designed to do. Other than the 1895 they may be too long for the trench raiding role of the Luger and C96 because of the tube magazine. The 1895 has a small magazine and no way to extend it without impinging on the lever path. Compared to many, though not all, service rifles everything before the 1895 is slow to load. King's patent is great for its time, but it's not comparable to clip loading. I wouldn't be surprised if the faster firing is eaten up by slower loading if you test the time to fire say 100 rounds. I'd expect the 1895 to be the rifle, but it's only the rifle. It's not a do everything gun.

[@TheSulross]

seems that a typical reason for objecting to a lever gun vs bolt action for military use is that the bolt action is easier to cycle when in a prone firing position

[@jcodym13]

Love how the empty brass just flies over the shooter's head. Also it was pretty funny when one just plopped onto Ian's hat at 9:39

[@ernstbergerbrent]

I can totally understand the issues cavalry had with resupplying when in the field. I've been in a modern cavalry squadron that was part of a light infantry brigade. Getting resupplied while operating far forward of the rest of the brigade is a constant struggle. Especially when you have to rely on your crew served weapons instead of artillery.

[@WhiskyCardinalWes]

So true, a good 1SG made sure the beans, bullets, and gas came forward from the trains, otherwise the unit would grind to a halt. And finding a Quartermaster unit with showers and laundry was the best moral booster.

[@ernstbergerbrent]

@@WhiskyCardinalWes l would have loved to have a forward support company that had showers. I've never been deployed, but did a jrtc rotation. They were struggling to get our guys ammo and fuel. Forget about food and water. I had like 3 hot meals while in the field and I'm part of HQ. Our dismounted scouts had to filter swamp water to drink. Fortunately our forward support company has a new commander and has their shit together now.

[@christiansantiago3007]

The idea of fictional special cavalry force with big bore lever actions sounds neat. Would love to see this rifle in a match.

[@Hostilenemy]

So what you're essentially saying is that a 45-60 is a circumcised 45-70.

[@elektro3000]

Circumcision doesn't change OAL, just whether the bullet nose is seated flush/sub-flush like the 7.62x38R or proud like the .327 Federal. ;)

[@azuritet3]

We're not gonna cut it off. We're just gonna trim it a little, to make it LOOK bigger.

[@JR9979]

Do a control run at the 2 gun match with a 1903 Springfield and a large frame S&W revolver to see if what the army went to after was better or worse.

[@Wedelj]

That's a fun idea. I second it!

[@777syth]

I vote for this to however I was thinking of the eddystone in place of the 1903

[@scruggs6633]

I think it was one of these that they found leaned against a tree in Great Basin National Park. It was there for like 130 something years lol

[@aurorawhorealis]

It was either a '73 or a '76 and it has been preserved in its found state and now lives at the Cody Firearms Museum

[@darrenharvey5929]

Hi Lord Lovat is said to have come ashore at Normandy armed with a Winchester 1886 in 45/70

[@COIcultist]

What you said about the lack of training ammunition must have meant that not only did the cavalry not have lever rifles but would have been ineffectual with the trapdoor rifles they did have. Would Little Big Horn have had a different result if the cavalry had been better trained with what they had, let alone equipped with better rifles? Train hard fight easy.

[@jayzenitram9621]

Let's not forget that as ineffectual as the cavalry was they still decimated the native populations. So I think of little big horn as karmic justice which had exactly the outcome it deserved.

[@RonOhio]

You guys need to get some Ottoman uniforms and try a Winchester 1866 in a match, I believe that was the largest issue and use of lever actions in a real war, as opposed to an insurgency.

[@crazyfvck]

+Ron Stephen The largest use of lever guns in combat was by the Russians in WW1, using the Winchester 1895. But I agree that it would be cool to see them dressed up like that using 1866's :)

[@MarikHavair]

I wouldn't really consider the wars between the US and the various native tribes an "insurgency"...

[@RonOhio]

@@crazyfvck Thanks, I slipped a decimal place there, Russia bought a LOT more Winchester than the Ottoman's.

[@tommihommi1]

The production value is through the roof on this video

[@boydgrandy5769]

One of my neighbors when I was a kid was an old man named George Cook. By 1965, George was a widower in his 80s living on his small farm in the Cascades in Washington. I met him as a very small boy and used to go visit him just to hear the stories he could tell about coming into that country around the turn of the century. George had an original model 1876 Winchester in 45/70. I was with him one day when he shot a deer with it from his front porch. Big smokey boom and you could see the bullet fly. He said that in the early 1930s, federal agents came to confiscate his black powder Winchester model 1876, because the gub'mint was worried that he would try to fire it with smokeless powder rounds. He said he told them that they could have two pieces of it, if they stayed on his porch long enough for him to get it and fire it twice. After that, they decided they needed to be someplace else, and in a hurry. He still had the rifle when I left home to join the Navy 5 years after he told me that story.

[@mattboyd1330]

I remember reading about Army Chief of Scouts Al Sieber using an 1876 in 45-75 at the battle of Big Dry Wash, Arizona in 1882. It served him well, he accounted for 6 to 8 of the 16 Apache killed by the Army in that fight . Great video ...now I have to buy one !

[@remko1238]

Gun nerds in camo - still THE best channel out there 💪🏿

[@armchairwarlord]

The Turks certainly did pretty well with their Winchesters at Plevna.

[@kevinoliver3083]

The Ottomans were defeated at Plevna.

[@Sean-ot4zq]

There is a shop near where I live that specializes in old lever actions and military surplus firearms. The owner as 2 original 1876 Winchesters. The shop is Krausewerk Collectibles in San Mateo California

[@fredford7642]

Great review on the 1876 rifle. Nice to see Ian's involvement. I love my new/old Chaparral 1876 rifle in 45-75. I have enjoyed the use of 45-70 for over five decades, and hope to enjoy the 45-75 for another five decades. Thank you both for a great video.

[@soonersmith4179]

Someone should made replicas of the 1894 Russian Winchester chambered in 5.56 for the poor people living in California. And stripper clips to fit it

[@TylerHulan]

1895

[@TylerHulan]

Henry does make a lever gun in 5.56 it doesn't take stripper clips though

[@idontwanttoputmyname403]

Why not just leave it in 54r? Or change it to 30-06? The actions strong enough to take it after all.

[@soonersmith4179]

Lighter recoil for faster follow up shots, and ammunition selection. 7.62x54R is powerful but there is only one grain and jacket selection available where I’m at. There may be more online but still no where near the options for 5.56

[@soonersmith4179]

Lighter recoil for faster follow up shots, and ammunition selection. 7.62x54R is powerful but there is only one grain and jacket selection available where I’m at. There may be more online but still no where near the options for 5.56

[@tonlito22]

What would be really interesting would be a "Pre-War" match, where the only real rule is that it has to have been made before The Great War. Be real cool to see how this stacks up against Enfields, Mausers, Mannlichers, Mosins, Carcanos, or heck even some of the civilian semi-autos. Also be cool to see what pistols get used.

[@stevenandbobthedog]

This is the content I live for, I find these old guns so much more interesting than the ones we have today.

[@charlesadams1721]

Thanks for continuing your efforts in research on alternative equipment? Very much like looking at current military arms. Some 30-40 years ago I had the opportunity to hear a military historian who was a retired long time instructor at the USMA (West Point) and while he was not addressing the subject of weapons, he did spend considerable time on what frontier soldiers were, his point was the according to doctrine, the soldiers we think of as patrolling the west were not actually cavalry but “mounted infantry” where they normally fight on horseback, but rode into battle and dismounted to actually fight. Another important point stressed that cavalry were usually fairly accomplished horsemen, but you didn’t require considerable skill just riding into battle. This was considered important in that many of the soldiers in the army, all volunteers, who had enlisted from cities and didn’t own horses. The lecturer stated that the woeful quality of the horsemanship was noted in many reports. I’d imagine loading and shooting an even more unfamiliar firearm would be rather difficult. Which brings up something Karl and Ian have stressed - training.

[@357magdad]

Thanks for addressing the black powder questions. I love the lever gun series!

[@robertevans2922]

These lever action videos are awesome. Really hoping you do a video demonstrating a small squad armed with lever actions using these tactics. Would be cool with all 1860 Henrys and 1866/1873/1876 Winchesters or even throw in some lever actions that came later such as Winchester 1892/1894s and even more modern Marlin and new Henry PCCs such as the Big Boy Steel. Thanks and please keep the lever gun videos coming!

[@HFSswfl]

These lever gun segments are so epic! There is nothing quite like shooting a Winchester toggle lever gun.

[@trenacook7694]

Splendid gentlemen. I so enjoy the history education and seeing the rifles being fired. Thanks

[@ziruk-king4466]

I put my dad's original 45-60 winchester round barrel in his casket with an original box of shells from the 1800's like the one in the movie tom horn.

[@m1994a3jagnew]

I feel like this was a perfect chance to wear union blue cavalry uniforms

[@brettsims931]

Awesome tutorial! Love the 76 and intend to own one. Keep up the informative insights on these weapons.

[@karlt8233]

I have a Uberti 1873 .357Mag Trapper, little brother to the 1876, and it's a sweet shooting little carbine. Love the sound of a toggle link lever being worked.

[@tegunn]

What drove the 1876 Win design was that Winchester wanted to use the 45-70 cartridge, but with toggle-link action/lifter design limited cartridge length whereas they couldn't use the 45-70 cartridge. The 45-60/45-75 (shorter than the 45-70) was best attempt to emulate the 45-70 in order to provide hunters with a better cartridge than the 44-40

[@brasstard7.627]

The 45-60 was popular with the ranchers here north of El Paso Ive found quite a few cases up and down the old trails

[@sethp5876]

Will the next “What If” series be on cargo pockets?

[@garyK.45ACP]

LOL

[@farmboy1960]

A most excellent presentation and discussion. Thank you, guys.

[@bitsnpieces11]

I've got an 1873 in 32-20. Pistol for self defense close up, rifle for meat gun and defense at longer range. Came from Illinois when it would have been frontier/farm country.

[@soylentgreen7074]

Schofield with speed loaders would be an appropriate sidearm. There were wood handmade ones before the 1880’s. If i ever find photos or drawings of a prototype I’m going to attempt to make some. Wish I didn’t live on the other side of the country in an anti gun state or I’d be at 2gacm. Especially the historically themed ones. Only thing we have here is high power, skeet and cowboy action. But I’m not a huge fan of cowboy action because the targets are so close i can almost touch them with my barrel and there’s no movement.

[@DeCavalcante]

What state

[@AndrewAMartin]

Need to find a better CAS match then -- plenty of variety in the match stages I've shot in central and eastern PA, plus shotgun fun!

[@soylentgreen7074]

Andrew Martin what clubs??? I could use suggestions. I’m right on the border of eastern PA unfortunately on the New Jermany side.

[@Exgrmbl]

I've heard people mention speedloaders often times, but I never actually found any evidence that they were in any use back then, ever.

[@soylentgreen7074]

Exgrmbl only takes a simple google search. There’s patent files and old ones out their people collect.

[@BillBodrero]

My favorite weapon in the world is the Winchester 1894 .30-30. I've carried that carbine on many a hunt.

[@smaug01]

There is a picture of Teddy Roosevelt in buckskins holding an 1873 Winchester across his knee

[@robashton8606]

Pretty sure the advent of the Spitzer bullet would have seen the retirement of tube fed rifles, even if they had been adopted. Eleven cartridges chain-firing in the confines of a trench would have spoiled even the most enthusiastic dough-boy's day.

[@farmerboy916]

Rob Ashton Reasonably sure that was worked around in a few other tube fed guns of the time (Lebel I believe). That said if the military was being realistic at this earlier point and had adopted a dmr along with a shorter range but faster firing standard infantry rifle, they probably would have realize they didn't need to go with spitzer bullets on the latter.

[@Celebmacil]

@@theJellyjoker You mean like the Winchester 1895?

[@robashton8606]

@@theJellyjoker I imagine it would be possible, but there would need to be a fairly radical redesign of the cartridge lift mechanism to allow it to accommodate rounds from underneath rather than in front. It would have been cool though. That lever action is so much smoother and faster than a bolt action.

[@elektro3000]

@@theJellyjoker Winchester 1895, Browning BLR, Henry Long Ranger (the latter two are entirely modern, of course)

[@CountArtha]

Just because you adopt lever guns instead of bolt guns doesn't mean James Paris Lee isn't going to invent a box magazine for them.

[@Falcon-15]

Ian sure loves British kit. Rocking the interim CS95 MTP shirt!

[@jengamaster9679]

Desert Nomad Really works in that environment.

[@Falcon-15]

Maxence Vigneault. Aye it’s pretty good. Us Brits went to it around 2010ish. It’s essentially multi cam but with a Brit DPM styling. At the time we had green DPM or Desert DPM. Neither worked in afghan transitioning to the green zone to desert and vice versa in Helmand, so MTP was adopted. The rumour is as follows :- Deserts were in CS95 pattern. PCS was in development and about to be issued. But the requirement not to stick out like a redcoat came out so other solutions were looked at. Multi cam with a Brit twist was looked at and decided upon. But when the order was placed some bellend gave the design of CS 95 to the contractor instead of PCS. Hence we got what Ian was wearing. After that order was complete PCS was submitted and became the norm which it is still today. Same cam pattern different pockets and stuff. As for going to afghan in 3, 3 month tours I went from being issued CS95 deserts, less than 8 months later, issued CS95 interim MTP to less than 6 months later having PCS! Gotta love being a Brit on helicopters!

[@mikeadams8293]

My grandfather had 2 Winchesters! One in 45-70 and one in 45-90 both with octagon barrels and just beautiful wood grain! He sold them in 1965 for $10,000! As I understand it, they where very rare and expensive! I was 16 years old at the time or I would have tried to buy them myself except he said he would not sell them to any members of the family (says my seven years older brother) because he couldn’t afford to just will them to one of us. I guess he got them in his younger days when he ran bootlegged liquor down south, but that’s a different story.

[@josephlagasse8614]

Would you say it's slick?

[@lovecraftcat]

REALLY slick

[@Jay-ln1co]

Dang slick.

[@USSEnterpriseA1701]

Dog gone it, stop making me want a '76 even more than I already do. I have a bunch of the pistol cartridge lever guns (and some of the later smokeless 'intermediate rifle cartridge' guns), which are awesome, but there's just something about the bigger cartridge guns that just makes them so cool. Although, realistically, it wouldn't be that hard to come close to 45-60's ballistics in a modern model '92 or Marlin '94 in say .44 magnum and I do at least have them to work with. There is something to be said for magnum revolver cartridges out of rifles, especially compared to many of the old black powder rifle cartridges.

[@metayerman]

My favorite what if for lever guns is what if we used a lever action .30-06 in WW1?

[@Axemantitan]

No, but .30-03, with a round-nosed bullet, might have worked. Spitzer bullets don't work well in tube magazines. There is a risk of ND when the point of a bullet presses against the primer of another cartridge under spring pressure.

[@metayerman]

Axemantitan you don’t have to have a tube magazine on a lever action. 30-06 lever actions actually existed at the time.

[@jancoil4886]

Many in DC didn't see the indians as a major threat. They were a local nuisance. A danger to local people but not a threat to the US. The 1870s saw Comanche, Nez Perce, Sioux etc, all defeated and it was done with single shot weapons. I think some type of test unit would have been fascinating, but the Army thought otherwise.

[@Redchrome1]

When running tests of a lever gun vs. a Krag-Jorgensen or Mauser, be sure you try it while prone, behind cover, and awkward positions. My understanding of why the bolt gun beat the lever gun was that a bolt gun is easier to operate prone. (If anyone wants to talk about the strength of a bolt action vs. a lever action, just look at a Browning BLR for an example of what is essentially a lever-operated turn-bolt design).

[@andik.4235]

Almost one year later. Where is the 1876 in a 2GunACM? I would love to see it.

[@michaeltorluemke3322]

Finally a gun that Ian can use left handed with out a lot of problems.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

1876 vs newer 1886, 92, 94 etc. sure the 76 action might be quicker, but as he said, makes nary a difference with the average non-competitive shooter. I've also read on forums guys who were in SASS using either style action and some argued they were just as quick with a 92 action vs a 76. But the non-competition shooter will be spending far more time lining up sights, loading/unloading, and other rifle handling time-spenders that any slight advantage actually stroking the lever means essentially nothing. Outside competition, most people would opt for the action that's far stronger.

[@tskwared667]

Just yesterday i remembered I haven't seen anything new from this series in a while and went back an rewatched the earlier installments, and you just so happen to post another today.

[@TeecherWBC]

Probably the main thing that would hold the Army back from considering lever guns was the lack of a bayonet mounting feature. Remember, the Napoleonic final assault being a bayonet charge was still being taught before the Civil War when the generals who made the decisions were junior officers. Would the lever gun have been viable at either the Wagon Box fight or the greasy grass fight? Probably not, because the cartridges that stove up the Trap Door Springfield would have disabled the Winchester quite badly, too. But in the final analysis, neither the Trap Door Springfield, nor any Winchester would have survived the aftermath of San Juan Hill, let alone France in 1917.

[@Old_8_gauge]

I am buying a Uberti in .50-95. You may check Buffalo Arms for ammo. FYI. Good video, thanks.

[@jfreid3174]

awesome video! I just noticed at the 9:55ish mark you can see a shell casing ontop of his head in the cowboy hat!

[@burnsboysaresoldiers]

Your western vids are seriously my favorites. I love the old west and learn so much. I seriously want to move to the south west

[@TractionEra]

To see if the Winchester would have made it into the trenches a series comparing it to the Krag, a '93 Mauser, and the '03 Springfield would be pretty definitive

[@machintelligence]

Winchester lever guns did make it into the trenches. Russia bought about a quarter of a million model 95's in 7.672 mm Russian caliber. They saw action in the Russo-Turkish war of 1906-1912.)

[@machintelligence]

Oops. That was 7.62 Russian. I seem to have fat fingers today.

[@RememberReach777]

Sure the lever gun is faster to cycle but once it’s empty I don’t think it’ll be much faster than a trapdoor. Would be an interesting video between the lever gun, the trapdoor and the SMLE with the first to load and fire 15 rounds

[@cheese4432]

That would be sweet!

[@DeCavalcante]

But you don't have to load a full tube. Toss in two rounds or one at a time. The lever action is still dominate.

[@salvadorsempere1701]

If you start with an empty rifle, the SMLE will beat the other two with ease. Takes a lot fewer time to load 3 clips that loading 15 individual rounds.

[@salvadorsempere1701]

Even if you start with a full rifle, when you emtpty it, you start to count from an empty one@@GunFunZS

[@SergeantPsycho]

Glad I'm watching this in 2021 so I don't have to wait for the next episode.

[@WhiskyCardinalWes]

During WW1 didn't the Russians buy a bunch of lever action rifles to make up combat losses and arm second line troops?

[@magicoddeffect]

Yes, they bought a very large number of 1895 pattern Winchesters, including 300,000 from Winchester themselves. There are several notable differences from the standard 1895 pattern; one, they were of course chambered in 7.62x54R, the standard Russian rifle round at the time. Two, they had a full-length military stock that commercially-sold guns lacked. Three, they had a guide cut out in the receiver for use with standard Mosin-Nagant 5-round stripper clips. These weren't necessarily just for second line troops, however, because at the beginning of World War 1 the Imperial Russian Army was severely short on small arms in general. Their supply of Mosin-Nagants was nowhere near sufficient to arm every man.

[@WhiskyCardinalWes]

@@magicoddeffect Thanks for the info! This sounds like a rabbit hole I think I might dive into, it sounds fascinating!!

[@idontwanttoputmyname403]

@@WhiskyCardinalWes Just don't end up trying to buy one, unless you've got a spare arm and leg lying around somewhere!

[@michaelw.6957]

The French did as well, but they were used almost exclusively by second-line troops. Othias over at C&Rsenal did some videos on the variants.

[@SNOUPS4]

This video seems more pretty than the others: the angle changes of the camera, the image quality, the pacing... I'm not sure if it was on purpose though, but well done! (and as interesting as always, of course :) )

[@burnsboysaresoldiers]

Several notable police agencies saw the ‘76 and took advantage of it. Both San Francisco PD and the Canadian mounted police both used them for years.

[@majedajaber9064]

As I remember there was debate in Congress about the lever vs bolt going into WW1

[@tacman2893]

The Northwest Mounted Police, the modern day RCMP, used these in a full musket configuration. They had them in 45-75. They were (still are) a para-military organization.

[@davidtong2776]

When Winchester came out with the Model 1886, In 45-90 they loaded it with 300 grain bullet.

[@somedaysoon3784]

Savage 99 when? There were a few military contracts for the 99,if memory serves.

[@johnchambers2996]

The issue with the cavalry is trying to maneuver this over ten-pound rifle on horseback in a chase, and at the Little Big Horn, the hostiles had captured many carbines from the units that they had overrun and were using them on the remainder; this would have been the same with these 1876's.

[@reddog154]

Steve McQueen used one of these when he played Tom Horn in the movie of the same name. He was around 50 years old and fired it from the back of a galloping horse. Great movie.

[@tballstaedt7807]

As i understand it, it was the complicaions of prone shooting with lever actions that caused heartburn for the old men who made these decisions. The truth is that the advantages far outweighed the few drawbacks especially in fighting the guerrilla tactics during the indian wars.

[@scipio10000]

Here is a thought: the Swiss in 1870 developed the .41 caliber, tube fed, bolt action with rear lugs, 11 rounds magazine Vetterli rifle, no fuss and pussy footing about budget on purchase of weapons, ammo and training. Just to give a sense of what you can get when the priorities are different ... .

[@TrakesFangs]

Ian, you always have a stylish and appropriate hat!

[@enscroggs]

Teddy Roosevelt's famous "Rough Riders" cavalry was an all-volunteer unit made up of cowboys, Indian scouts, and polo players who were for the most part personal acquaintances of Roosevelt known as horsemen and "pistoleers" from his adventuring days out West. Roosevelt loved Winchester rifles and he was wealthy enough to have equipped his troops with whatever weapon he chose. Did he chose the Winchester, or were the Rough Rider's equipped with Krags or trapdoor Springfields?

[@JS-ob4oh]

Firepower in the era of blackpowder is kind of moot since the first shot is going to obscure your view of the target and this is only going to get worse with a squad or column of troops all firing their repeating rifles. If you can't see it, you are not going to be able to hit it no matter how many rounds you got in the rifle.

[@opencarry3860]

Fyi, some 1876 Uberti Clones will not be able to close the bolt fully due to the thicker head rim case of the 45/70. So this can be another problem to overcome to be able to shoot this rifle. Jamison brass did produce 45/60 brass for a short time and it still can be found with some luck.

[@steelgila]

Boy that Winchester 73-76 style loading gate is sooo much easier to negotiate than my Rossi M65(which is a Winchester 92 clone) which will actually kick them out at times while I'm trying to stuff them in(and I try to do it cowboy style with the round going in spanning half in and out to be inserted with the assistance of the succeeding round). Guess I'm still breaking it in which the previous owner did not quite accomplish.

[@swietoslaw]

I think this series is really interesting but becasue of logistic it is a really fantasy :P Because most people dont know how hard is army logistic if cavalaery units would have this rifle they would need a couple times more ammo. which meant more horses or wagon and this meant more food for horses/people. This gun is much more complicated then simple one shot gun so you need to have some part, and ofc some gunsmith or second guns, which again meant more horses/wagons for transport And all this is combining and stacking and make all this cavalry slowwww. I recently read about logistic and cavalry of Polish army before 39. And they were only caring 8-12 kg of stuff (weapons, helmets, uniform etc) and rest was on logistic wagons and even then they with normal speed did only 40km a day, which is funny because it almost exactly half of bicycle units :P and this in all terrain in very bad Polish road (most were just dirt road)

[@wierdalien1]

3:20 progenitor is not a descendent its an ancestor

[@wierdalien1]

@@ANonymous-bh1un what corrections? that's what the comment section is for!

[@lbauer51]

For those who handload a .45-60 can be duplicated with a .45-70 case, 300 grain lead bullet, and Trail Boss smokeless powder. The only thing you lose is the added magazine capacity from the shorter case, but you gain a much more available firearm from several vendors. And as I understand the history of the Great War, the popular ticket for a doughboy jumping into a German trench was the Winchester model 97 pump shotgun, complete with bayonette.

[@4065winchester]

Cut down 45-70 cases may work in reproduction '76's but not in original rifles. The original 45-60 has a thinner rim and the action in the old guns won't quite close with cut down 45-70.

[@waltlars3687]

A manual of Arms for the 73 and 76 would be to turn the weapon upside down and run the lever with the trigger finger in the action loop

[@paulharveu526]

Old West Stormtroopen units?

[@gussie88bunny]

Karl, Ian, would love to see you rapidly shoot that thing with black powder, so we can see the smoke obfuscation of the "battlefield". I've heard (never confirmed) that was a reason given against the adoption of rapid fire small arms. Please test it for us. Love your work, Gus.

[@opencarry3860]

I would feel confident using my 1876 Winchester for big game and even for defense. Good power and rapid accurate fire.

[@FancyJesus666]

Please run this against an 03 Springfield in the match.

[@ronrobertson59]

Dulist1954 has a video of cutting 45-70 down to 45-60.

[@SedatedandRestrained]

I agree with Karl, you can definitely feel how much drastically harder the action is to run on the Browning designs than the toggle link designs.

[@Threewolfs-]

Need one, have all the others, have my 1860, ‘66, ‘73 then skipped to the 1892, ‘94 & 1895 (45-70). But know really want a 1876. Thanks 👍🏻🤠

[@victorboucher675]

Cargo pockets ??? OK, maybe the McKeever Cartridge Box. WWI ??? The Brits, Royal Navy, purchased 20,000 model 92 carbines and 5,000 94s. Love your programs.

[@jamie-fm6mx]

there is a picture out there of Teddy Roosevelt with a Winchester 1876....handsome rifle

[@mausercal65]

I love lever action rifles and I’ve always thought them to be much better than most of today’s so called experts claim . Keep up the good work gentlemen.