What if...the US Army adopted Lever Guns in the 1870s?

The 1860 Henry and 1866 Winchester cut a bloody swath in the "old west" not due to the power of the cartridge, but based on their capacity, controllability and rate of fire.
In this video we discuss an idea - what if the US Army had embraced the idea of the high capacity and rate of fire that the lever guns could deliver instead of the single shot Trapdoor rifle?
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[@charlesinglin]

There was an incident in 1868, the Battle of Beecher's Island, that might have given the Army a clue. 50 men armed with Spencer rifles held off a force estimated at between 200 and 1,000 Indians for several days. The Indians withdrew after their leader, Roman Nose, was killed. The unit was composed of experienced frontiersmen and had the advantage of a good defensive position on a wooded sand bar, but one wonders what the outcome would have been if they had single shots.

[@crunchysuperman]

Would the US have even had the infrastructure required to produce ammo in quantities sufficient to support this line of thinking at the time?

[@72butler]

what a hat! What a wall! What a video! What time is it! Who are you? Who am i?

[@davidbriggs264]

I believe that it was Bill Mauldin writing about 1941 during the transition between the Bolt-Action Springfield and the Semi-Automatic Garand that the problem so many of the older soldiers had with the Garand was that they believed that soldier would simply waste their ammunition, rather then aiming their shots. The more thing change, the more things stay the same.

[@JohnDoe-kg4zn]

I can remember wondering about this as a child and being so frustrated that that the lever action was passed over in favor of breech loaders and bolt actions! Haven't thought about this is forever! Great vid!

[@bobrobert1123]

"Bwoop" is the sound you hear when you design a larger receiver.

[@LordDigz12]

I brought this up on Bloke On the Range's channel, the comparison of lever guns vs bolt guns (specifically Lee-Enfields). The dudes in the channel were seething when I told them lever guns were faster then Enfields. I swear I had 20 euros wanting to swing on me if they ever met me in real life.

[@LordHeadshot]

My only practical concerns would be the quantity of fouling from all that black powder, and the logistical difficulty of keeping troops supplied in the field and at remote installations. All that ammo had to be hauled in wagons or on the backs of pack animals, and carried with the troops on patrol.

[@hammsbeerbearshootingrange3716]

I want see this Enfield vs Winchester video

[@ls93780]

I think a lot of countries skipped lever actions and went straight from single shots to bolt actions is because lever actions were less soldier proof and more mechanically complicated.

[@invictusprima4437]

California: bans SimiAutos

[@cam2351]

I'm imagining Americans in WWII with M1 garands and lever guns

[@danielsturman5250]

I really enjoy the "what if?" lever action line of thought. I sat up for a while thinking about how this could have actually happened, and came up with something like this-

[@forrestgreene1139]

As someone who grew up shooting a 30-30 and then a Savage 99, I love this "what if". They are just plain fast.

[@texasdeeslinglead2401]

modern training with that setup would be seriously dangerous to face.

[@jeffreyfwagner]

Times have changed a lot. Today's military pursues every bit of new technology. The US army had been very slow to embrace new ideas in the early 20th century. Champions of airplanes got pretty shabby treatment early on. By WW2 the embrace of technology was total. Your ideas about lever guns in the 1800's are spot on.

[@Predalien195]

I think the saying "Hind sight is 20/20" is totally applicable here. If they knew then what we know now about the future shape of warfare or ballistics and modern tactics, I'm confident they would have gone this route. Sure for prone firing lever actions arent as good as bolt actions, but this could have been worked around with say a pump action rifle instead I think.

[@sunburstbasser]

You might consider modern leverguns in 44 magnum. It is a slight step down from 45-60, but it would make ammo pretty easy to source. And 44 Special is a good alternative to 44-40 for the squad leader. Get a few shooters together and you could emulate a possible 1880s commando unit.

[@mrunderhood]

When comparing loading speed between lever actions and bolt actions that were not mag or clip fed. I feel that you must consider how easy it is to load the lever action without opening the action. So during a hesitation in fire or while moving you can continue slip rounds into the magazine.

[@pikeywyatt]

Confession when i was a 10 year old cowboy (1955) my gun's would have been 1, Walker Colt 1,1866 Winchester 1, Sharps.that's not bad for a kid in the UK. (i just could not get enough western films.or a horse. in south London) love the hat.