Leverless / hitbox newcomer? Start here!

[@VidVayder]

"Failure is not the opposite of success, but a part of success." Go get bodied.

[@MrAlious]

Wise words brother

[@lucid5385]

Thank you for this video ❤

[@VidVayder]

@@lucid5385 No worries, good luck!

[@lucid5385]

@@VidVayder I get my Leverless today and I'm nervous for my gameplay to diminish but I'm sure it will be worth it in the long run

[@VidVayder]

@@lucid5385 not gonna lie, it will be frustrating and you might even think about quitting a few times, but keep at it and try new ways of doing stuff. See how you go for a few months and don't forget there are resources and guides all over youtube :)

[@darth-umbrex]

I just got a hitbox and the learning curve is definitely a thing coming for a lever.

[@VidVayder]

Yeah it’s going to take some time, maybe months!

[@hello88888]

I'm dying.

[@191Oscar]

Newbie tekken player here, this has helped a lot mate cheers, I'm opting for my left thumb on jump due to the way tekken plays but the hand placement etc has been a major help

[@VidVayder]

Very glad to hear that bro. Hope you enjoy the switch to leverless 👊

[@user-eu5ol7mx8y]

So, did you adopt the exact hand placement as in the video? With Tekken, I feel like I need to have each finger resting on 1234 buttons. Because sometimes you need to press 3+4, so a single thumb won't do it. My resting finger placement is, 1 index, 2 middle, 3 thumb, 4 ring. Problem is, I'm starting to feel pain below the wrist and a bit along the fingers. But I'm also new to leverless so I don't know if it's caused by this finger posture or not.

[@191Oscar]

@@user-eu5ol7mx8y I've re macro'd my buttons on the right hand but I think the way I've done it is pretty unique as I'm playing Steve I've done it so 1234 all sit naturally under my fingers, then re macro'd a button for 3+4 etc. As for the left I am playing with my left thumb on jump, it felt really weird for a while but I'm starting to develop the mind muscle connection I think.

[@morpheus3693]

Hey man i just wanted to thank you for your work, i bought my first leverless few days ago (a m16 plus) because of you and i am very happy with it ! The learning process is a bit hard but i already love it !!

[@VidVayder]

Hey man, glad to hear you’re enjoying it! You will be taking licks for a while but over time it will be second nature. Happy holidays bro 👊

[@momo.ru-kun]

Mistimed and mis-pressed buttons are usually caused by resting your palms on the board. You must lift your hands as if you are playing the piano. This is why piano players can use all fingers without accidentally pressing a different key. Also by lifting your palms, it allows better reach and perfect horizontal orientation, you are moving your forearm and not twisting your wrist. Twisting your wrist makes you lose orientation horizontally making you press the wrong buttons, very similar to a piano. A piano has 88-keys and we never lose orientation even without looking, this only has 12 buttons

[@VidVayder]

Nice to learn about the intricacies of piano hands. It’s pretty hard to maintain the elevated position for a non-piano player like myself but I do try.

[@corvoyami3192]

So hanss lifted is absolutely the way to go for this?

[@VidVayder]

I play with my palms rested most of the time because I am lazy. It’s not that resting your palms makes it impossible, it’s more that keeping them hovering is optimal. It doesn’t matter too much if you’re not playing for money I suppose :)

[@user-eu5ol7mx8y]

I've been getting pain in my fingers and below the wrist, from playing FPS on a keyboard, and now from fighting games on leverless. Could it be because the wrists are rested on the board/desk?

[@fullarmourtracksuit4023]

@@user-eu5ol7mx8yHow long are your gaming sessions? It’s probably repetitive strain injury.

[@KaneA87]

If you're a pad/console player, it might be easier to switch the up and down commands. Ultimately, try both and practice what you're most comfortable with. For me, I used the original way for over a week and didn't get very far. Changed them round and almost instantly improved at everything. Thank you for the video

[@whollenbeck8]

If I touch your hand, would you take me to the Elden Ring DLC?

[@VidVayder]

Put your foolish ambitions to rest! It will be worth the wait, so don’t look for shortcuts.

[@TheYungestOfSoups]

I just started playing leverless two nights ago and this is one of the most informative videos for beginners to I've seen yet. I haven't even gotten to try out the stuff you've talked about yet and I've still learned a bunch

[@VidVayder]

That’s high praise, thank you and I’m glad you found it helpful 🙏

[@ITzWIGGL3Z]

If you never play on a fightstick then it would take some time to get used to hand placement on left hand on movement and right hand on button placement. Now, the most important tip I can tell you is to relax your hands. Don’t tense up. The more you tense up you tend to stay on the button longer and do a move you didn’t meant to press. Also, you tend to hurt your hands if you tense up for a long period of time. Just relax and have fun trying on moves.

[@SlCKNESS_]

I recommend a 1000% you use the left thumb for jumping from the get-go. Also, you can argue this is just personal preference, but I never use my right thumb for anything. I use my index finger for LK and LP, middle finger for MP and MK and ring finger for HK and HP. For throw/parry/DI I just use my index and middle finger together. And yes, you can use the right pinky finger for L1(LB)/L2(LT)

[@EACru2002]

I do agree that in general, I think left thumb for jump is better, it's just more intuitive to a lot of people. That said, I do sometimes find use case scenarios where I'll use right thumb for jump. I find for example in Tekken, there's throws that use the u/f+1+2 command and I find that pressing the up button plus the two buttons all with your right hand (and your left hand handling forward) is 100% success rate. Granted, doing it the other way can also be 100% success rate, it's not that it's hard. But I find that every once in a while I'll got a missed input or accidently jumped instead of the command throw because I was hurried or a in a stressful situation. On the otherhand, it's almost impossible to get the timing wrong with right thumb on up, it's like your body just naturally knows to press all the buttons down at the exact same time every time without thinking about it.

[@cosmogang]

Have to respectfully disagree regarding the left thumb for jump. I dont see any benefit ysing the left thumb aand the right thumb feels far more intuitive. I believe that the right thumb feels better to me in this way, because with a liverless controller, I like to think of the up button as a "jump button" instead of a directional button. Therefore, a jump button would more logically be included in the roght hand action buttons and not the left side directional buttons. Also, I used to jump far too often using stick, and keeping with my roght hand is another way I can stop that bad habit. Anyway, to each his own, I wish you well on your leverless journey 😊

[@SlCKNESS_]

​@@cosmogang That's like saying pressing the spacebar with your right thumb makes more sense. But, oh well, can't win 'em all. I think mechanically the right thumb clashes with some specific play patterns, but whatever works for you at the end of the day.

[@EACru2002]

@@cosmogang Except once you play Tekken or Soul Calibur and it's less a jump button and more a sidestep right direction that goes in opposite directions relative to the screen depending on whether your character is facing right or left….

[@cosmogang]

@@EACru2002 I can see that but I don't play Tekken. 👍

[@barryjdwyer]

Have mine over a month. Playing stick 8+ years prior. Jump is by far the hardest thing I've found having to rewire my brain with. Haven't been on ranked at all since! Still trying to re-wire my brain with casual matches. Hopefully I'll get there.

[@VidVayder]

Yeah the jump struggle is real. Some people prefer left thumb but I prefer right thumb at the moment, probably because I come from console gaming. Making less errors with it as time goes by.

[@onlyncco8126]

@@VidVayder Im thinking about switching the up and down button, it feels way more intuitive. Whats your opinion on that?

[@VidVayder]

@onlyncco8126 if you’ve been a WASD keyboard player before that makes sense, some people do prefer it. You can actually find leverless controllers with a wasd layout. If it feels more intuitive to you by all means go for it. You can get used to and good at anything eventually, it’s human nature. Having said that, I myself would never do such a thing 😂

[@EACru2002]

@@onlyncco8126 I think if you're gonna do that, then you might be better served by getting a Mixbox that puts a WASD format controller on the left side instead of traditional Hitbox layout. Reason for that is you kinda still want the down button to be next to your left and right directions so you can do fireball motions intuitively, otherwise you have to press the thumb button plus direction on a Hitbox which can be ackward on the right hand side.

[@IcyTorment]

@@VidVayder Jumping with your thumb is pretty normal in WASD games. Usually jump is on the space bar by default.

[@realest_JoJo]

i am just getting into fighting games even though I have played FPS titles my whole life on PC, i decided to go in on a leverless to learn with. It occurred to me that my hands were generally panic'y and flying all over the place in tension, so I came looking for a sort of homekeys for my fingers to sit at or to program into my head, this was perfect, thank you. things are already feeling more natural

[@VidVayder]

That’s really good to hear. Glad it’s feeling more natural to you now. And don’t worry if you come up against another wall later, take your time in practice modes and just as you did with learning your homekeys you can program new stuff as you go 👊

[@IceColdProfessional]

In fighting games, you must learn to master the mental aspect. That jumpiness is going to get you wrecked. Learn to take a deep breath and get control of yourself.

[@chanbenyamin3527]

Hey bro im on the kitsune for almost a month now. Not gonna lie, its not easy but learned lots of stuff

[@VidVayder]

Same bro. I have my on and off days too. There have been nights where my mates would body me and I sit there wondering why I bother to play the game, and there might be the odd night where I'd hit a 10 - 20 win streak with the same people. The times I do best are when I'm not really thinking about my hands and just focused on what is happening on screen and using my fundamentals. I do believe that if you put the time in to lab and do the training, your brain and hands will align gradually and do what it needs to do. The difficult part is to accept and push through the learning curve, but you'll get there buddy. Especially if you're enjoying how it feels to use a controller like this. When it all comes together and your hands are flowing, it's very satisfying, I'm sure you've experienced those moments!

[@InitialGSB]

Love the drive impact tip, that helped so much.

[@VidVayder]

Glad to hear that. It’s definitely better than trying to hit HP + HK in the heat of battle.

[@BeenNoticing]

With SF6 I have shifted my 6 attack buttons to the right with Drive Impact on ⏹️ and Parry/Rush on ❎️. Parry/Rush is always instantly under my thumb. I deprioritized H kick to pinky duty because it is the slowest button usually used at the end of strings.

[@VidVayder]

Sounds like a cool setup. I respect that you would use your pinky for HK. Not something I would dare to do but your reasoning makes perfect sense!

[@thequadragamerz]

My man your hands are BUFF💪 reminded me of Luke’s hands. Also ty for this video.

[@VidVayder]

Haha that’s jokes mate. And you’re welcome, thanks for dropping by 🫡

[@riceshakes]

that pinky tip really helped me out a lot, I play guilty gear but putting the dash bind there is a huge difference when RC'ing. Jump is actually an easier transition for me since I use keyboard and mouse pretty regularly

[@VidVayder]

Glad to hear it helped man 💪

[@shahs1221]

Hihi! I was recommended your video and I'm glad I found it because holy it did not occur to me to just try rolling my hand to alleviate the extra unnecessary work I put especially on my left ring finger. That finger is my absolute weakest finger and I tend to be less consistent and drop even the most simplest motion inputs with it (I play Tekken), making me even more frustrated on top of that finger getting super tired because I force it too hard. I'll definitely keep this in mind!

[@VidVayder]

Glad you found it helpful! Don’t be afraid to experiment, you never know what might work for you :) good luck mate 💪

[@sonyphony]

Omg as a hitbox tekken player just learning sf6, that stiffen finger technique on the pinky is ingenius.

[@VidVayder]

Glad you found that helpful! They actually make button extensions for this kind of technique. It’s called a D-Brake by the cheatboxproject on Etsy. I haven’t tried it but the concept is to hit that button as immediately as possible.

[@pao_lumu]

I basically grew up on KBM, and I'm really looking forward to getting my Snack Box Micro, cause this seems VERY similar to a keyboard.

[@VidVayder]

Defo. A lot of KBM players transition well to leverless. You can even get leverless controllers with WASD setup on the left!

[@pao_lumu]

@@VidVayder oh that's neat! If I decide to pick up another one, I might look into that :)

[@jorvananggara9191]

Thx for the tutorial man, appreciate it. I thought that i just have to use the button the same way the normal arcade stick buttons were used, but this video clarify it. :D

[@VidVayder]

Tbh you can use it in whatever way feels comfortable! You’ll get good at whatever you practice.

[@IceColdProfessional]

After adopting this playstyle, my inputs went from 0 - 100.....real quick!

[@VidVayder]

Glad to hear it helped!

[@juno1597]

My hand placement is somewhat similar but I use a keyboard with 3 fingers left hand for movement resting on left / A down / S Right / D 5 fingers on left hand for buttons resting on numpad thumb = 0 index = 4 middle finger = 5 Ring Finger = 6 Pinky Finger = + WIth 0 for OD Kick 4 Lk,Lp, throw 5 Mk, Mp, Parry 6 Hk,Hp, DI + OD Punch Different kinda leverless kinda like the leverless Leshar uses but he's mad and uses an actual leverless with keyboard switches and keys.

[@strymoon]

thanks, I'm coming to a hitbox from a keyboard and looks like i'll have to change some of the habits, but I think I'm gonna keep the habit of using my left thumb for the jump, I'll see if it's any better. also ur rooflemonger intro bamboozled me at first lol

[@VidVayder]

Haha he’s a legend. Yeah most kb players are very familiar with left thumb jumping so best to stick to that if it works for you. I kept getting confused so had to switch thumbs!

[@kuroki4151]

these are very expensive btw. If youre on PC and wanna get this just use ASD and use spacebar for jump, its basically the same.

[@gameclips5734]

you can get a haute42 for £70 so not really. Also not everyone wants to wear their keyboard like that

[@dazzym1999]

WER+space matches the samelayout ^_^

[@VidVayder]

Functionally yeah, you can get by with a standard keyboard. But that arcade 'feel' and experience isn't the same (which is what some people want). As @gameclips5734 mentioned as well, you can get cheaper ones especially on PC.

[@abby8043]

I'm following this and I think i'll use my left thumb (waiting on my leverless to come in tomorrow) playing hella FPS games made me used to jumping with space.

[@VidVayder]

Yeah a lot of keyboard players are used to left thumb jumping. Console players don’t mind right thumb jumping.

[@Cruccifixio]

After watching this video I realized I'll probably never understand why so many players use right hand to jump :) Only got my kitsune a week ago and only used it for Mortal Kombat 1 though. Maybe another game in the future will show me why it can be useful, for now I'll commit to keep using left hand and stop wondering about others :)

[@VidVayder]

Hehe well it could be my choice of character. I play Cammy and do dive kicks regularly. Found that using my right thumb to jump gave my left hand more mobility/agility to execute dive kicks. However, logically I do wish I could use my left thumb instead.

[@Cruccifixio]

Hmm, so I tried using right thumb jump for Li Mei's aerial attack(down back circle), because you can use it as a surprise overhead if you input it immediately after jumping and it was definately easier and more consistent then using left thumb. Apparently when using left thumb I press down too fast and the socd cleaning ignores it. So thanks for the reply, it was super helpful and gave me some new training exercises for left :) Also just bought SF6 on a steamsale, definately need more singleplayer content to practise leverless😃

[@VidVayder]

@Cruccifixio glad it helped! Choice of left or right thumb both have pros and cons for sure. Experimentation is key for us leverless newcomers 💪 good luck with SF6 bro, take your time and learn the fundamentals 😌

[@RiverRaidFleetCapt]

The "you will suck a couple of months in this" was the most important to me, cause I was feeling bad about my skills! I am an old man, I don´t know if I have the time to move from stick. Nevertheless, I think it is a good cognitive training, and may insist as an exercise.

[@VidVayder]

100% agree it’s great as a cognitive exercise. To that end it’s good to approach stick proficiency in the same way. Any difficult manoeuvre can be broken down and learned. Good day to you from a fellow ‘old man’ :)

[@ZeroG004]

3:21 using your right thumb to jump? Interesting. Using my left thumb on leverless was easy to get used to only because most games on pc use the space bar to jump. If you lump that muscle memory in the same head space it feels like 2nd nature relatively quickly

[@VidVayder]

Makes sense! I found the right thumb easier and now that you mention it, probably because I play a lot of games on pad as a console gamer, where right thumb is jump. Fella who asked me to make this video is also a pad player previously so hoping right thumb makes sense for him too. Thanks for watching and the insightful comment 🙏

[@nikonid0]

I feel it's too weird to use right hand thumb for jump. It's more comfortable to me to use one hand to move and another for hit. I also don't feel good using DR on L2 and DI on R2. I tried though. Now I moved them on light punch light kick and pushed away the rest. It's more natural to me, since the 6 buttons are aligned in the same fashion as in a fighting stick. Will see if I can get use to that 😊

[@VidVayder]

Interesting layout. When it comes to DR and parry, I personally prefer to use mk and mp to execute that instead of a single button, it feels like less for my brain to deal with. For your jump button, it seems to me that PC players are used to using the left thumb for jump whilst console gamers don’t mind using the right thumb because thats where the jump button is on Mario/Sonic etc. Hope your layout works well for you 💪

[@nikonid0]

@VidVayder I just can't get to press many buttons. I'm still learning Juri's combo and can't use it in a match. For me DR is a separate button. I noticed that sometimes it doesn't trigger DR if I have hold a direction while pressing the shortcut on the second DR of a combo. So it would be: s.mp c.mp DR c.HK c.mp DR and this kne doesn't trigger if I hold down. 🤔 I guess with experience it will be easier ahah

[@VidVayder]

@nikonid0 the drive rush cancel does not trigger if you’re holding a direction, you have to be in neutral. So after the cr.mp let go of crouch and press the DR button.

[@KingAriston]

Executing charge moves or 360s across two hands is too weird; left thumb for jump feels much more natural to me

[@tiguilherman_plays]

3:55 it may be your way of playing and thats fine but generally i dont think this is good advice, as it is very limiting in fact. using the left thumb for jumping is much better than leaving it idle. jumping doesnt happen so often anyway and youll really need both hands in order to do divekicks and instant air legs/instant quarter circles in the air. I only use the right thumb if i am using a shortcut where i need to transform up into left or right while holding down (i see it then as part of my action input), but thats it. tldr why leave a finger idle? youre training your muscle memory already anyway, might just as well include your left finger in that training.

[@VidVayder]

Fair enough if you feel better with the left thumb. I personally felt like my left hand in general was stiff because of the ‘stance’ from having my thumb over jump. Not saying it isn’t viable but for beginners trying the right thumb is worth it imo. I get what you’re saying about instant dive kicks but I don’t have an issue with it with right thumb as jump, personally. So it’s possible to train instant dives with the right thumb. Again not disagreeing with you but as a beginner to leverless and having tried both the right and left thumb for a couple of weeks each, it seems to me right thumb jumping is easier.

[@happilyisolated]

I'm super excited to get one of these. Thumbsticks have always annoyed me to death and the d-pad irritates my thumb despite how soft it is. Idk why either I couldn't tell you xD

[@VidVayder]

Haha it makes sense. Many players moved to arcade sticks because of irritation, and then to stickless because of new irritations! All of the control types do have their pros and cons, I guess it's about finding the one that suits you best :)

[@saintvallen123]

I find having my right index on light kick, middle on light punch and thumb on jump and pinkie on DI is the most comfortable and efficient in reaction time. The palm can hit the DP and you always have pretty decent time to change fingers to medium or high punch/kick during combo after hit confirm or similar. This also gives a nice natural curve to the right hand so you're not twisting the wrist to the side

[@saintvallen123]

Left middle finger would be on jump button. Giving almost all fingers a purpose

[@VidVayder]

Wow left middle finger on jump! That’s wild to me I’m not sure I could ever do that. Cool that you found something that works perfectly for you though!

[@saintvallen123]

I just realised I wrote middle finger, I'm using sallybox which has a wasd layout and the thumb button, and I meant to say I use my left thumb, I suppose sometimes with middle out of panic. For me it's as natural as jumping with spacebar so it took no adjustment at all. I also got into fighting games directly with a leverless and doing pretty decent so far@@VidVayder

[@VidVayder]

Right that makes a lot more sense now haha. Yeah keyboard player straight to leverless is quite a convenient transition.

[@ArgoYonda]

i play tekken, played on pad and on stick, switched to leverless, was way more good and crisp with my movement since day1, but i'm also a expirience keyboard player (not with fighting game, when i was playing them casualy i used allways a pad), the movement for me just work fine, sometimes you end up messing the timing, beeing to fast on certain movement with one of your 2 hands, like with the EWGF, for the timing part i hit that more consistently on stick, but is sync problem, you can fix it with labbing

[@VidVayder]

I experienced a speed sync issue with my hands too. I was pressing jump too early when doing qcf + jump, and had to lab to undo that so I know where you’re coming from.

[@CrossupComboLeft]

These are all great tips, thank you!

[@VidVayder]

Glad to be of service! 🫡

[@dedeath]

Despite using a my right thumb for hitting spacebar on a keyboard, I find it much more natural to use my left thumb for jumping on the kitsune. The struggle for me is re-wiring my brain for the placement of the jump button. on a pad or stick, you press up to jump, but on the kitsune, having the jump button be lower than the duck button is very confusing at times. I wonder if theres any real drawbacks to just swapping those two buttons? use the thumb button to duck, and use the other button to jump. seems like it would feel a bit more natural... and you could still easily roll your index/ring fingers along with your thumb for quarter circle motions. I don't really want to try and get used to that though and then have it suck lol. I wonder if anyone has used a leverless like that for an extended period of time.

[@VidVayder]

Same, getting used to that reverse direction mapping took me quite a while. Even now a couple months in, during full panic mode I might get duck and jump mixed. Although it is getting more and more rare so I have faith it will go away some time soon. There are some leverless controllers that have the jump button above the duck button (wsad layout) but I don't think I would like that personally. At the end of the day I try to remember that some top level players use some crazy layouts on a playstation pad and it works for them, so I must be able to get used to this jump layout on the Kitsune. I don't want to be the guinea pig for swapping jump and duck either lol!!!

[@odd_cup_of_coffee]

This guide is a big help. Got the Kitsune for Christmas, and I think this will help with being more accurate on my inputs.

[@VidVayder]

Very glad to hear it. Enjoy your new Kitsune!

[@brianj1r144]

idk why i put my pinky on my left arrow. using that grip makes it easier lol. i was using my index to jump also

[@brianj1r144]

makes jumping so much easier thanks. came from lever so now i gotta rewire again to put myy ring on my left arrow

[@VidVayder]

The thing is you can get good at anything if you do it long enough. So, if the pinky on left arrow works for you, it’s really up to you if you want to rewire 👍

[@draj9366]

amazing tutorial video, I hope to see more of that for Tekken 8 soon 😅

[@VidVayder]

Thanks! Oh no I didn’t plan on picking up Tekken. Playing one fighting game is already a lot to learn! I can’t really fathom how a leverless would be comfortable for the movement in Tekken though and I would think that the left thumb would be preferable for the UP button when playing Tekken.

[@chuchu4559]

my snackbox micro is being delivered today! can't wait to use it :>

[@VidVayder]

Nice! I heard it’s good. Hope you enjoy the controller :)

[@SharkWithFreakinLaserBeam]

I use the top right button for Drive Impact. My pinky isn't strong, but it's strong enough lol. Regarding the jump throw, just try shifting your index finger down to the LK button and keep your middle finger on LP. I like to use my right thumb for jump, so that shift is way more natural and consistent than flexing your index finger weirdly and trying to cover both buttons for the throw like in the video. I happen to do parry manually, and to me the same index+middle finger position there is more natural than thumb. Also, I do play Cammy, and another tip I have is for dive kicks, you can just temporarily move your whole right hand down to the second row. That way you just jump (assuming right thumb again), then QCB and choose which kick to use. Obviously, it will ultimately come down to preference and you can adapt any which way, but especially for new leverless users, I'd say it's really important to play with different input method options as well as understanding the limitations of our hands/fingers due to anatomy. For example, don't try to practice getting faster at double QCB (1P side) using your middle and ring finger. Our fingers don't go in that direction so you'll have to find a workaround.

[@VidVayder]

Good tips mate, thanks for your input!

[@math001]

Lmao that intro cracked me up. Always wondered how he ended up saying it like that

[@SpaceLanceFTW]

Silly thing, but because I've been using an older Mayflash Stick for awhile, I haven't gotten used to the default button placement on most sticks; I'm actually used to the leftmost column of buttons being for macros, leaving my pinkie away from hitting anything accidentally. I don't know if there's any observation I could make, other than "I should prolly practice the standard layout"

[@vishnukesavan8116]

Please do one leverless gyide for tekken 8 too.

[@VidVayder]

Ah bro, I don’t play Tekken. You would probably do a better guide than me!

[@lenecrogaming]

Hi man, do you have any tip to buffer a cancel from a standing light to a super? (for exemple cammy from stand LK to her level 3, if i buff 236 before the first LK even if i delay it that will throw a spiral arrow, and if i try to do a double circle after the standing lk that seems impossible to cancel). Thank you for your answer.

[@VidVayder]

I personally don’t use any tricks for this, after LK I do the first qcf lighting quick and the second qcf at a normal rhythm as though I want to cancel into hooligan. What can help is to make sure you’ve mastered the timing for the confirms (I assume you’re starting with LP, LP, LK for example). When you’re very comfortable with that, you just have to start your qcf x 2 at the earliest possible moment after you press LK. Don’t even wait for it to land, assume that your timing is on point. Other than that, here are some weird posture tips that help me with super tight timings: 1. Sit forward, maybe on the edge of your chair so your body is alert 2. Clench your butthole when doing the qcf x 2 (no joke!!!). Finally, if you want to buy yourself more time and you have some drive bar to spare, cancel the LK into drive rush, then crouching LP, standing HP, light spin knuckle then level 3. It does 3544 damage compared to 3900 (just LK into level 3) but it’s much easier to land if you have drive bar. FYI standing LP does 300 damage, so the difference isn’t huge.

[@lenecrogaming]

@@VidVayder ok i asked that question because i'm on a way to optimise some specific situations (like in burnout when i do a punish from a light to make sure to kill my opponent)

[@VidVayder]

@assotakunoteam awesome! That kind of optimisation is what takes us to the next level. I would say good luck with that LK cancel but we both know it’s hard work in the lab that will get you there 👊

[@lenecrogaming]

@@VidVayder indeed that's a nightmare lol

[@TamagoSarada_]

Would playing on a keyboard capture a similar feel?

[@VidVayder]

In my opinion no, because the spacing of the buttons adds to the precision. Also it’s easier to whack the buttons harder or press two/three at a time on a leverless arcade controller.

[@Trav_Doom]

Would you recommend 12 or 16 button for a beginner? I’m thinking of getting Haute42 M12 plus or M16 plus

[@VidVayder]

I would recommend the M12 for a beginner because the face looks small. If you were going for the T series which has a larger face I would say 16 button so you can learn to use the extra buttons later. I have the G16 (which I reviewed on my channel) and imo it feels cramped. So yeah, go for 12 unless it’s a bigger model.

[@Trav_Doom]

@@VidVayder That seems smart. I’m a beginner to the fgc in general, so I’ll start with 12 buttons and upgrade later if I “need” it. I don’t even use my l3 and r3 as is anyway lol

[@VidVayder]

Yeah I’m still getting used to using l3 and r3 too. Never used them before SF6! Hope you enjoy your new controller when you get it.

[@alexnostalgix]

thanks I'll be applying this soon :)

[@VidVayder]

Which leverless did you go for?

[@valterriazen2661]

@vidvayder any tips on the super jump inputs?

[@VidVayder]

That would be down and then up instantly right? I don’t play any games with super jump, but I would personally try to: quarter-circle-forward + jump.

[@capoman1]

I've seen great players on just keyboards. Some moves are VERY DIFFICULT this way though as their input combos were not intended for these devices... For instance in Killer Instinct old arcade, Jago and Orchid have moves that are not half or quarter circles, the are down forward to down back. It's fairly easy on a joystick, but impossible I found on a keyboard.

[@HoaxHoax-d5f]

Are tge buttons larger tgan standard arcade buttons?

[@VidVayder]

For this model, just the jump button. The action and direction buttons are about the same as my Sanwa arcade buttons, just without the button rims.

[@javianbrown8627]

I don't own a leverless but i do own an arcade stick which i only use for fighting games and this still helps for the right hand portion. Thank you. How do you use this in games with a dash botton like guilty gear though?

[@VidVayder]

No worries, glad it helped. Is it possible to dash in GG with double tapping direction? Because it’s very easy on leverless. Alternatively there are models with more buttons that help with additional inputs. I only played Strive briefly so I’m not familiar with such things anymore 😅

[@Dat_Dude_Dizzle]

My main is Kimberly I can’t do a air Tatsu can you please help me out ?

[@VidVayder]

Go into training and break down both parts. If it's like Cammy's dive kick, I'm assuming the parts are: 1. Forward jump 2. QCB + kick Forward jump: Practice by holding forward first, and pressing jump. Gradually cut the space between holding forward and pressing jump until it's instant. Almost like you're pressing both buttons at the same time. QCB + kick: To start off, don't go for speed. Do it at a casual speed until you can connect the forward jump and qcb + kick with 100% accuracy. And that's the key, go for accuracy first. Speed will follow if you are accurate. I find that problems happen when I try to do the motions too quickly. I end up pressing kick too early because I am rushing the input. Finally, try experimenting with which thumb you use for jump. I found that qcb in the air is more accurate and fast when I use my right thumb to jump.

[@Dat_Dude_Dizzle]

@@VidVayder thanks i will try that

[@03blaird]

is there anyway to get a version where the buttons are reversed? Im used to playing with direction buttons on the right and punch/kick buttons on the left (used to play older fighting games on emulators on the pc and used the arrow keys for movement)

[@VidVayder]

Not the Kitsune as far as I know. You would need a custom built one for your needs.

[@MrNIKsr]

What's the red thing on the cable?

[@VidVayder]

It’s a magnetic cable clip by SecretLab, designed for their desks but should work on any metal surface. You can learn more about it in my desk review here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bnengoydndGbr6csi=3O7DV0PV8vyvTzdp

[@MrNIKsr]

@@VidVayder I see, thanks!

[@dvaunt3516]

Okay year later... The left 3 buttons are left, down, right. To the right of those are jump, light kick, light punch. To the right of those ae med kick and med punch. To the right of those are hard kick and hard punch To the right of those are impact and parry. If that is correct, which button is UP?

[@VidVayder]

UP??!?! Huh! (yeaah) What is it good for?

[@dvaunt3516]

Because not every game is from SNK or Capcom. There are plenty of games where UP is a very different command from jump. Example: Rolling Thunder.

[@VidVayder]

@@dvaunt3516 Oh my bad I didn't know you were being serious. There are many leverless controllers out there with a WASD layout (the jump is above down). I have some reviewed on my channel if you'd like to see them.

[@AntonYatsu]

That “Hellooo and welcoooome” in the start of the video sounded exactly like one of FFXIV guys I watch from time to time. Is that some kind of reference to something?

[@VidVayder]

It was a reference to a KZbinr called rooflemonger. He does fighting game videos but I’m not sure if he does FF stuff as well :)

[@banjax-fgc]

helloooo and welcomeeee - you had me there bro. I just purchased a B1PC and this was very helpful. Thank you

[@VidVayder]

Hahha 😂 enjoy your leverless journey bro. Glad to have helped.

[@mazfrans9568]

wrist not on the lap just like we are using mouse ?

[@VidVayder]

You can rest your palms on the controller but you might feel some pain after a while, that’s why people advise to float the hands like a pianist.

[@mazfrans9568]

@@VidVayder thanks, I always wonder about this, will start training to float hand

[@SubjectSeize]

There is this strange thing happening with me. I can do better when im pressing buttons with point+middle fingers together and using just them. whenever i try to use my hand, placing all my fingers above the buttons(like piano), i have worst time doing combos. I feel like i dont have the same sync with my fingers as i have when i`m moving my wrist and pressing buttons with point+middle. Is it a case of just not enough practice?

[@VidVayder]

I would advise that you just keep doing what you’re doing if it works for you. If it stops working or if you feel like what you’re doing is limiting you, then that’s when you should consider alternative technique. A lot of high level and pro players use a similar technique as you when they are ‘plinking’ (google it). Don’t change what isn’t broken brother. If you’re comfy with your methods, keep perfecting it.

[@SubjectSeize]

@@VidVayder man, thanks for the plinking term, i`ll def look for more information. subbed for more.

[@VidVayder]

@SubjectSeize 🙏

[@norbarellis]

Silly me, I just bought the Kitsune for £300 then decided to watch a video telling me how tricky it is - I honestly assumed it would be intuitive, brief transition time only? Is it a nightmare to get used to it (I'm a cas gamer btw)

[@VidVayder]

Bro, nothing to stress about 🙂 it will be fun! Some things will come naturally, other things you will need to lab and get used to. My situation could be different from yours, my friends are all at a high level and give no mercy despite my transition so in my case it was frustrating in that way, but you might have a different experience. Watch a few tutorial videos for shortcuts and things. It might even make you try new things. Example: SPD is soooo easy on leverless that i started playing and having fun with gief.

[@norbarellis]

@@VidVayder Thanks man, it's due to arrive Friday. Will let you know how I get on. Really appreciate your vid!

[@VidVayder]

All good bro, enjoy!

[@norbarellis]

@@VidVayder It arrived early, damn this thing is a thing of beauty! It literally makes me want to get good at it. Started out on original SF2s (30th anniversary edition) but Im very inconsistent so far - as soon as I feel I've got it, I then miss then next 3 in a row. (Uppercut is frustrating and evading me 4 out of 5).edit - Im actually struggling to know what I've done correctly when it actually pulls off, if that makes sense? Silly question, but any tips on the forward, down, down-forward movement on it? I will keep at it- this thing is one of the prettiest things I own, ngl.

[@VidVayder]

I know right? Just looking at it makes you want to use it. For dp, I made another video on my channels about dps on leverless. If you watch it make sure you check the comments where some viewers suggest a method i did not know about (specifically, fwd, dwn, jump + button).

[@TheSteleaf]

I can finally pull off Chuns stance combos. Big thanks for the left wrist trick!

[@VidVayder]

No problem! Glad it helped 🙂

[@GuyN0ir]

Just got a leverless controller today and I just keep pressing the down button when I try to jump. Gonna take a bit to build better muscle memory. The tips in this video are definitely appreciated

[@VidVayder]

Glad it helped. The learning curve is steep and long but it’s fun when you get used to it. Don’t be surprised if it takes a couple of months to be comfy with it 💪

[@GuyN0ir]

@@VidVayder After a few hours in training mode and casual matches it’s definitely feeling better. Still not up to par with stick yet but my movement has gotten much more confident.

[@michealkelly9441]

Using this for mk1 is proving to be tough but its doable

[@legionDC]

same man. I have the cheap FightBox. had it for a 2 weeks now. It's a struggle for me on MK1. In practice I do pretty well. then, thinking I'm ready, I go online and get cooked missing my combos lol

[@michealkelly9441]

@legionDC literally same here lol makes MK1's lack of offline content that much more pronounced ha

[@VidVayder]

Everyone gets cooked online bro it feels like a completely different game sometimes with the added stress. Have to get battered to get better 😣 what you can try is to come away from a match with a positive lesson or learning. It could just be landing one of your combos a few times in the pressured environment. Good luck!

[@hida_berserker]

can someone tell me why i should try this over a normal keyboard ?

[@VidVayder]

The buttons are bigger so you can unga bunga easier. If you’re accurate and enjoy the keyboard you don’t really need it. But some people find it more fun. Plus you can get different switches for your leverless if you want it to feel different from your keyboard. Look up Haute42 controllers for a less expensive entry point.

[@thejowhu]

Hi, I play cammy and also have problems with jump when swapping to kitsune. I see a lot of people saying also saying to use right thumb but it seems so weird for instant dive kicks. The tiger knee motion also is very weird to me, i usually do manual. Any advice?

[@VidVayder]

Tiger knee method works well with left thumb because you can do qcb and then press jump, forward and kick at the same time. Instant dive kick does take getting use to but it does get easier if you drill it with right thumb. Have you tried the tip regarding not resting your palms on the controller? Try going into lab and just seeing what feels better and make sure you’re focusing on accuracy first, the speed will follow when your fingers get more and more accurate. Tl;dr keep drilling bro!

[@thejowhu]

@@VidVayder Hi, thanks for the reply, I’ll try these. With manual, I can weirdly do p1 divekick pretty naturally but p2 is inconsistent. I’m hesitant on going all in on tiger knee because I usually like to walk forward dive kick and wake up ex dive kick. How do you do these with tiger knee or do you switch to manual for those situations?

[@VidVayder]

@@thejowhu The only time I ever used tiger knee method was when I had my left thumb as jump button. When I was playing on stick, and now with my right thumb as jump, I prefer to do dive kick the normal way. I find that doing the qcb before jumping adds a bit of delay to my intentions so I just got used to jumping and firing off the dive kick straight away. It sounds to me like you can do the qcb portion of the tiger knee method during the wake up though.

[@tiguilherman_plays]

yep, like I already commented above, that was just bad advice from the content creator. just buffer your quarter circle on the ground, jump neutral or forward (with LEFT hand), then delay button. it will come out every single time.

[@Gamerlife-be9ox]

Just picked one up and am having a hell of a time getting used to it.

[@VidVayder]

You’ll get there 💪 lots of lab time will help.

[@Gamerlife-be9ox]

@@VidVayder I’m definitely going to be putting in the time this weekend.

[@spoily1955]

I wish i get the opportunity to try out the controller I don't have any experience in arcade sticks either So I don't know which one I found comfy using. I wanna buy one but I don't wanna waste on controller which I probably don't like 😅

[@VidVayder]

Is there a Razer store near you? They have the Kitsune on display in stores to try. Also Aliexpress has cheap ones around $50 or so. Another option is to wait for a gaming con and hope that you can try sticks or leverless there 👍

[@spoily1955]

@@VidVayder I'm afraid there is no razer concept store neither gamescon in this country. Guess I have to try and error. Probably going for leverless first

[@victoryang2990]

@spoily1955 i used my keyboard to help me decide if i wanted a all button controller. Been using the Kitsune for a week now and i like it more than i thought i would.

[@spoily1955]

@@victoryang2990 interesting! Maybe I should try play with keyboard I used to play on keyboard back in emulator games but somehow I don't remember how to play using it I guess it kinda does!!! Maybe I should reconsider buying keyboard Current keyboard is laptop which I don't like using it for games Thanks man!!!

[@victoryang2990]

@@spoily1955 keyboard got me use to the all button controller. The kitsune's button are more comfortable since they're bigger and spaced out plus u don't get all the other buttons to deal with.

[@user-kp2hb5yr3g]

anyway to add turbo on this?

[@VidVayder]

Maybe a mod on PC? But out the box I doubt it.

[@BrandonG777]

Reminds me of when someone suggested playing Doom with mouse & keyboard over a controller. I sucked at first but eventually murdered anyone who used a controller in multiplayer.

[@VidVayder]

Yeah mouse and keyboard will always be number 1 for fps games.

[@XMetalChefX]

Kitsune!❤

[@cloud6640]

Good content🥰

[@VidVayder]

Thanks ☺️

[@Dr.KaitouPhD]

Thank you. Ima a begginer, and my main trouble is what to do with the jump button.

[@VidVayder]

Massive issue for me at first too. No matter which choice you take I think you will get used to it eventually, but as a dive kick user I definitely think using the right thumb has its merits.

[@rampagetrickz]

can I use a hitbox if my game requires wasd?

[@VidVayder]

I don’t know the answer to this but I think on PC you should be able to remap the jump button to W.

[@fleepity]

What game are u trying to play?

[@woreyour]

for people who were playing in keyboards (even 2 players) when emulators were born this is similar i would think

[@VidVayder]

Yep. The difference would be the spacing and increased freedom since the buttons are bigger and harder to miss. You can also hit these arcade controllers with more vigour.

[@imdemari]

Great guide bro, this vid helped me out alot!!🔥

[@VidVayder]

Thanks man, happy to hear that! Good luck with your leverless journey 💪

[@tegrity]

It's the fact that jump isn't down and down is upv be confusing the crap out of ne i got stuck in the corner and my green flatlines. I don't know how to move or block or jump. I use stick and pad. Honestly doing half circle motions I think is harder I can't move my ring finger like that. Two more action buttons would probably just be better a pad box for anybody that doesn't use computers

[@VidVayder]

In the early days, I would just press any random button in a panic! You're not alone in feeling this way. It gets better though, but only after weeks of getting bodied.

[@maafremsayablong]

Your hands looks like mine! haha

[@VidVayder]

Joey???

[@clairemadeinheaven]

LOL THE INTRO

[@VidVayder]

I had to 😛

[@Ronhova12345]

training your ring & middle finger to do a p2 side DP no SOCD....🥵

[@VidVayder]

Haha, nightmare!!!!

[@vicenteg7380]

Where is the DOWN button???

[@VidVayder]

It's the second button from the left. ⬅️⬇️➡️

[@emile5921]

Kitsune is kinda prone to fingerprints, isn't it?

[@VidVayder]

For sure. It does get greasy fast. I have good results with a micro fibre cloth and a bit of water.

[@kumaSOevl]

Every Razer product in black basically

[@JELIFISH19]

@@VidVayder If you don't wipe it, the oils from your hands turn it into a much more uniform black. So finger prints stop showing up when you stop trying get rid of them.

[@VidVayder]

@@JELIFISH19 This made me laugh. I'm not sure if I'm ready for my Kitsune to develop that character 😂 Maybe a few months down the line I'll just let it be. Thanks for the tip!

[@RaptureHead1993]

Get a sticker cover

[@SpectreMK23]

It looks cool, but arcade stick is much easier.

[@VidVayder]

Ngl the transition is hard. I would say some things are more precise and others are not. Both have their own qualities.

[@SpectreMK23]

@@VidVayder what was Anger Bird using when he won EVO? When I walked in the arcade in 92' there set a beautiful sight.

[@VidVayder]

@Mr.mod0 do you mean Angry Bird in this year’s evo (Big Bird is the Marisa player)? I’m pretty sure Angry Bird uses a stick/lever. I think Big Bird also uses stick/lever.

[@SpectreMK23]

@@VidVayder yes sir!

[@CallmeSins]

Sooo use my pinky or not? I hate using my little finger.

[@VidVayder]

Yeah it’s not easy, but everything is trainable 💪

[@CallmeSins]

@@VidVayder copy

[@FlareZero]

Geez looks hard to learn this, maybe I will stick to an arcade stick.

[@VidVayder]

All methods are good and viable. If you’re accurate and have fun with the stick then there’s no need to change. Pros and cons to all methods, for example I am still having concerns with dp as an anti air on leverless 😅

[@mattx5499]

Every controller requires some time to learn how to use it. If you feel comfortable with traditional arcade stick there's no need for you to change.

[@abby8043]

Why are Vayder's hands so sexy though

[@VidVayder]

Why thank you ☺️

[@despoiler79]

360 ?

[@VidVayder]

Slide your left index finger from the right direction button to the left (you will hit ➡️⬇️⬅️) then press ⬆️+P. You can do this on P1 or P2 side. The key is to not press jump and punch too early.

[@despoiler79]

@@VidVayder ok you slide to get a quick tap. I ordered one of these controler but I was not sure about 360x2 and some tricky moves in KOF13.

[@VidVayder]

@@despoiler79 I'm not sure if there is a trick for 360x2. I just do the input above quickly. It's important to get the technique down cleanly and accurately. The speed will naturally follow.

[@Zahi36501]

Unless you're planning to enter tournaments or playing against pros, I say save your money and just use pad or stick It's not worth spending £250/£300 on just a controller and even making it harder for yourself with the button layouts 😊

[@VidVayder]

Fair take. All options are viable and have their pros and cons 👍

[@Zahi36501]

@@VidVayder that's fair! Wasn't saying it's a bad option, just been reading in comments on how newbies have been struggling to even get the simple combos going with hit boxes so didn't want them to go all out and get an expensive controller that costs half of their console For them I think you should do a video on cheap entry hit boxes as some people just can't get used to it from what I've read

[@VidVayder]

Yeah there are defo some good options out there. I was waiting for a few companies to send me some to test but those are still pending. Definitely would do something like that if they pull through though!

[@IcyTorment]

@@Zahi36501 I don't think it's worth the extra effort of trying to learn to play fighting games on a gamepad. I'd buy the hitbox to avoid the painful gamepad learning curve. Or an arcade stick. Anything but trying to DP on a gamepad.

[@Zahi36501]

@@IcyTorment But the thing is the game pad comes with the console, so it's not a learning curve because a lot of people already get used to the combos on the traditional gamepads I was talking about the people who after they're used to the game pad go out and pay 200 or more for hitbox and then have to relearn the combos again Play with whatever is best for you, just commented as read from so many people how they were struggling with hitboxes so didn't want people to waste their money

[@TeeRkee]

My ring finger is so weak

[@VidVayder]

Same mate. It’s to do with how the muscles and tendons are connected.

[@makiroll8720]

thanks for not actually talking like that the whole video

[@VidVayder]

Hahaha! I couldn’t pull it off for a whole video :) happy holidays bud.

[@makiroll8720]

@VidVayder thanks man, and you too, you'll never guess what I got which *definitely* has nothing to do with me watching this video

[@VidVayder]

Haha! I hope you enjoy it bro 👊

[@MorbyLol]

right thumb on 8 sounds weird to me honestly

[@VidVayder]

You’re not alone in thinking that, but it does work for some of us out here!

[@MorbyLol]

@@VidVayder fair, comfort always comes first after all

[@a.diovolotrejo5760]

I no like the layout of this leverless.

[@VidVayder]

You prefer the noir style?

[@a.diovolotrejo5760]

@@VidVayder yeah, it feel more comfortable

[@mzm3976]

Fumb

[@VidVayder]

Lmao!!! Excuse my British-ness 😁

[@JohnSmith-XYZ]

i hate rooflemonger.

[@VidVayder]

😯