Lewis Winch Thoughts and Use

Lewis Winch and MS661-CM powerhead specs:
7.3 hp
4,000lb pull force single line
60 ft/min line speed (presumably unloaded, full drum)
Lewis Winch and MS362-CM powerhead specs:
4.7 hp
~2500lb pull force single line
60 ft/min line speed (presumably unloaded, full drum)
Portable winch PCW5000 specs:
2.1 hp
2,200lb pull force single line
40 ft/min line speed (presumably unloaded)
4 stroke engine (drawback in my mind)
One thing to consider is that with a capstan winch you have the same pull performance and throughout the entire pull because the drum never changes in diameter. I believe Portable Winch also offers different size drums so you can trade line speed for pull force to best suit your application.

[@seanleinen3269]

So yeah, I mentioned this on your previous video, but using polyester / Dacron / polyDac static rope is essential for all parts of the winching operation. Yes, it's true there's no such thing as a completely static material; even steel stretches before it breaks. But a 16-strand climbing line (that Sampson blue-and-white rope), even if it's within its WLL, is a no-no for rigging operations. The surging of the log and the winch as the rope stretches and releases is a clue that you need static rope here. Also, the downfalls you mentioned with the Lewis winch don't exist with e.g. the Simpson Capstan winch, esp. if static rope is used with it, because the very design of the capstan winch -- with the capstan at one side of the winch (the right-hand side as viewed from behind-the-chainsaw point of view) -- means that you're keeping gentle tension and taking up slack from the rope while standing AT THE SIDE of the winch, not directly behind the winch where you could get hit if something breaks. Of course, you have to have some sort of trigger lock -- like a stainless steel hose clamp slipped over the trigger, adjusted to the perfect 3/4 (or even full) throttle setting. As soon as you want the winch's pull to stop, just slack up gently on the rope so that the capstan slips (a basic design of a capstan from naval/marine use), and while keeping gentle (but slipping capstan) pressure on the rope, walk over and slip the hose clamp off the trigger. To me, the inate design of a capstan winch, which automatically puts the operator off to the side of the winch to keep rope tension for the capstan to "bite," is reason enough that I went with the Simpson Capstan winch and not the Lewis cable winch. Pair it with a 600-foot polyDac 3/8 rope, and I've pulled entire spars out of ravines in one pull -- not having to reset because of running out of cable on a spool. Nice thing about this is you can use as much or as little force magnification with snatch blocks as you want; you're limited by only the length of the rope you're using.

[@zaccheus]

Yeah for sure! A capstan winch definitely has its perks, that's why listed some different specs in the description. I definitely would not add a trigger lock to a tool that was designed without one and I would not want to limit myself to a 540 lb WLL as 3/8 polydac is commonly rated for. The simpson winch is rated for use with polyester rope as listed on their website. Considering it would take 20 minutes to run 600ft of rope through a simpson winch at 31ft/min as listed on their website, I'd say it's out of the question for me since I'm trying to make money out here. I would love it if there was a 7hp capstan winch available on the market with a 2 stoke engine, I would trade it for my lewis winch immediately.

[@RobertJLessard]

The brake is pointless you're correct. I took mine off as it was just in the way. The little metal bit on the bottom is too small I like the one you added. My only complaint is what you mentioned it will only wind cable on one side or the other. It needs a drum that is narrow In the center to help guide it to stay on track or a narrower cable guide maybe. Very handy tool though I pulled a 4000 lb camper through thick mud down a logging road by putting a ski on the camper.

[@zaccheus]

Nice! Thank you for adding your thoughts in here. Good to hear from another user

[@dutchdog804]

Glad to see you back in action. I hate snow. Thank God we don't get much of it here in Virginia.

[@zaccheus]

Thanks, it's been a real damper here lately. We don't normally get this much.

[@Toyotaamazon80series]

God I adore snow but I hate rain with a vengeance, 👍🪓🌲🇮🇪

[@br-dj2ti]

I should have watched your video a little bit longer before I commented you answered my questions thank you buddy stay safe God bless

[@zaccheus]

Haha, no problem. I always enjoy your comments

[@7eis]

One thing to be mindful of is that the gearing effectively changes as you winch in. You'll get a stronger pull (more torque) with all the line out, but highest speed when the drum is almost full. Worth considering before changing line for dynema or shortening up

[@zaccheus]

Absolutely! You never get maximum pull force and speed at one time, it's only one or the other depending on the drum diameter. That's one nice thing about a capstan winch. It's the same for the entire duration of the pull.

[@TheCoqguy]

The break is to hold the cable/drum while you undo the lock to release the cable.

[@zaccheus]

Good thoughts

[@barniescamp]

You lock the brake when you release the tension knob.. that way you can ease off the tension with the brake handle

[@zaccheus]

Ohhh, that would make sense. It wouldn't take the pressure off of the knob and probably save wear on the end of the knob pin

[@kb_yt697]

Thanks for the video!

[@jeffcoon7160]

Just flat out handy when nothing else can get access. Inspect the cable, just like your ropes, don't ask it to do more than it should, and have someone else work the trigger while you stand behind several large trees.

[@zaccheus]

Lol, it's just as important to keep my helpers safe as it is to keep myself safe 😂 but you're right, frequent cable inspectio and care is certainly necessary for this unit.

[@geoffreygreen297]

I went to harbor freight and bought a 12000 pound winch and the mount for a tow hitch. I then ordered a draw tite front mount hitch for my truck. I run more blocks and redirects but it’s much safer and more dependable than anything else I have tried. Total price was about $700 .

[@zaccheus]

That's a sweet idea. I've considered the use of an electric winch, I was just always worried about duty cycles for long pulls.

[@geoffreygreen297]

@@zaccheus yeah I know what you mean. That’s why I went big. I don’t plan on pulling anything over 6000 pounds. I also went from a 4000 pound come along. That’s doubled up. Big difference. If you do some more investigating, you can find one that suits you. Duty rating on mine is pretty good at 2000 pounds.

[@zaccheus]

I gotcha, do they typically list line speed for electric winches?

[@geoffreygreen297]

@@zaccheus yes,

[@zaccheus]

I looked as some specs and was impressed to see the unit listed at 6hp! That's quite a bit for such a compact little motor.

[@robstone5333]

There’s a channel called “sawing with sandy”. He mounted one on his truck. Made a world of difference.

[@zaccheus]

I think I've seen that video and it kinda lead me to believe that I needed to make the anchor point on the winch farther back. I got this winch for the sole purpose of using it in places where I can't get my truck into, so I don't expect to be getting a truck mount, but thay information was certainly useful no doubt!

[@renest-amand5512]

I use a smaller cable so i can have a longer cable the one that comes with the winch is super duty more than I need it gives you more room on the spool and i put a load binder first on truck or tree to give some slack to disengage the clutch the shear pin on the clutch handle is only 1/8 to small for my liking ir had a bit of tension on the cable it was enough to cut clean that pin

[@zaccheus]

@@renest-amand5512 no worries about a smaller cable breaking? The operator position leaves the operator pretty vulnerable to injury from cable failure.

[@renest-amand5512]

You have to keep that in mind every time you use any winch my cable is a 1/16 smaller than the original cable still very strong and it gives me more room in the spool for me they could of made it with more room i was constantly fighting to spool the cable right,then tried being closer with less cable out i was constantly setting up so finally tried 1/16 smaller cable I take good care of the cable safety is always on my mind.

[@zaccheus]

@ sure thing man, as long as it’s thought about and the numbers make sense, I guess that’s all that really matters

[@treeman765]

I’ve always thought I needed on of those and never bought it but Thank you for showing a real arborist view on it! Can you please do a video sometime on the branch manager grapple on your tractor? I want to get the same setup for my Kubota and I’m curious on your thoughts, Thanks again!

[@zaccheus]

Aw man, I'd love to but I've sold it and I can't make a video on it. If you have any questions I can do my best to answer them. Feel free to send me an email: [e-mail]

[@toddjacks8288]

Awesome video brother

[@zaccheus]

Thanks Todd!

[@lukesmith8547]

I have had 2 synthetic lines break so far on my sxs and both times it just dropped like in the first test video so I will stick with the synthetic as in the second video shows the carnage of the steel line I would not want to experience ever

[@coyoteridgeRED]

How has your winch held up?

[@zaccheus]

Amhaha, I sold it like a year after using it on this job. I never really ran into another use for it. I know some guys use it for pulling trees over, but I don't do that kind of work anymore 🤷‍♂️ if I was to buy again, I'd probably get a capstan winch. Less hp, but safer and more user friendly.

[@br-dj2ti]

And also if you wanted more pulling power can you put a 66 or an 88 on there or no

[@zaccheus]

I think I remember reading somewhere that they are not rated for use with saws bigger than 7hp 🤷‍♂️

[@lukesmith8547]

Actually if the steel cable snaps you are definitely going to get hurt with the synthetic winch line it is going to drop to the ground

[@zaccheus]

That’s a myth. Both like store energy. Synthetic does not drop to the ground.

[@justinsnyder6256]

That should have warning lables all over it lol Bunch of ways to get hurt with that thing. Nothing more nerve racking than standing in line with tensioned lines lol. Super handy though. Cool tool.

[@zaccheus]

Yeah, I think it was developed back back in the early 70's before warning labels existed 😅

[@Toyotaamazon80series]

The most dangerous place to be is actually perpendicular to the pull.

[@davideatonjr.330]

I have a capstan winch but way too much stretch in the line and time consuming. I bought a fransgard v3004 only needs 20hp from the pto for my tractor roughly $2700 and four times as fast

[@zaccheus]

Nice that sounds super sweet! Do you find that with being pto driven, you have an appropriate amount if control?

[@davideatonjr.330]

@@zaccheus absolutely I have a mahindra 26xl with the fransgard pto winch and a front brush grapple , with the winch you can stand 15ft away from the winch to pull the log also judging by the length and size I think I could of twitched three of logs at once and it would of been about 5 minutes to bring them logs out front , little expensive but worth the investment

[@zaccheus]

Yeah for sure! Thanks for your input! How much cable is on that thing? I think I ended up pulling somewhere around 325-350 ft in the end

[@davideatonjr.330]

@@zaccheus the cables has 150ft. I'll have to make some videos again

[@zaccheus]

I gotcha, that seems to be enough for most applications typically.

[@peterbarlow8912]

So the operator stands in line with the cable?

[@zaccheus]

Yes. I actually ended up selling the wide because of that. It seemed like a lot of risk to me. This was the last job I used it on 😅

[@scotttam7491]

Hey you went an got a portable winch iv heard good things with those

[@zaccheus]

I don't have one, I do know a fella that dies have one. I've seen it work once or twice. It seemed to do pretty good.

[@dutchdog804]

You said you got rid of your kubota what kinda loader are you running now?

[@zaccheus]

None at all, I've downsized a bit and I'm doing a lot of contract climbing and smaller jobs.

[@dutchdog804]

@@zaccheus yeah I do prefer small jobs myself. Quick easy money and low overhead. Stay safe.

[@Toyotaamazon80series]

The Eder capstan winch from Germany is an outstanding piece of kit, 👍💪🪓🌲🇩🇪🇮🇪

[@zaccheus]

I've never heard of it, I'll have to look it up!

[@zaccheus]

It looks very similar to the winches made by Portable Winch Company. They are very nice to use.

[@Toyotaamazon80series]

@@zaccheus When I was researching capstan winches the choice was between the Eder and the P.C.W. The Eder is two stroke, the P.C.W is four stroke. The Eder 1200 is the one I went for in the end. It's 1,200kg on a single line pull. It's light and comes with a forestry kit. The P.C.W has a tilt sensor on the sump which shuts down the engine if it's titled more than fifteen degrees I believe. The Eder will winch away even if it's upside down. I didn't want to be messing around with straight petrol and then mix for the saws. You always run the risk of putting straight fuel into a saw and vice versa into the winch. I actually used the P.C.W on a job recently. It was hard extraction of a Larch stand. It did the job but I'd much prefer the Eder. The Eder will only throttle up when you pull on the rope. The drum on the P.C.W is always turning thereby generating friction and thus heat. The Eder has a pigtail as a fairlead whereas the P.C.W has a metal loop. The only thing I'd prefer about the P.C.W is the accessories.

[@zaccheus]

@@Toyotaamazon80series It sounds like Eder is definitely the way to go. There are a lot of things that I like more about it based on what you mentioned

[@Ntwadumela1]

@@zaccheus EDER has an ingenious brake mechanism and two gears/speeds. The Italian company DOCMA S.R.L. copied this mechanism in several of its models: VF900-4 Nippon, VF80 BOLT and VF105 RED IRON. From what I see, other manufacturers of capstan winches have also started to use this solution (including Portable Winch). There is also the good old PW 17 Muli from ZOLLERN/GUFLER METALL KG, but it is heavier than EDER and was designed to work with a wire rope. To learn more about PW 17 search: "Lightweight with giant power" (use the popular search engine). Videos on KZbin: PW 17 Muli: "welsh chainsaw winch" EDER Powerwinch 1800 also known as Nordforest Spillwinde 1800: "Wir stellen vor: Spillwinde 1800 im Einsatz Offroad | GRUBE.DE"

[@br-dj2ti]

How much weight do you think you could pull with that Lewis winch

[@zaccheus]

I'm not 100% sure. I think with this power head it will produce around 2500lb pulling force rather than the 4000lb with a 661. I think it mostly depends on how much resistance there is on the ground. If I was using a log arch with no snow, I think it would pull a lot

[@br-dj2ti]

@@zaccheus that thing's awesome man I've always wanted to get one I have a winch on the chipper but sometimes you can't always get the chipper to where you need it to use the winch that Lewis wench would be perfect at times definitely

[@zaccheus]

That sweet though that you have a chipper winch. My chipper didn't have one and there sure were times I wish I had one.

[@bhall7997]

I'm afraid to look at prices, I would like a 3 point skidding winch behind my Kubota B

[@zaccheus]

I looked into those back when I had a Kubota tractor. I really want a pto driven unit. I think they were in the $3k range, but that was a while ago.

[@leonardvirtue5753]

Nice.😆 😆.💪

[@justinjones9255]

You’re probably too young to get this 😆 but that thing should be the Lawn Dart of the arborist community. 😲

[@zaccheus]

Haha, I know full well what lawn dart are and that's a great perspective 😂

[@lukesmith8547]

I'm sharing 2 video showing the difference between the action of steel line and synthetic line kzbin.info/www/bejne/nqiXc3itrbRgnacsi=n3tsrSU1RMfZP57H kzbin.info/www/bejne/b2i7ooGOaN55is0si=NiXwMFoUwAGIOafx

[@zaccheus]

The synthetic rope break test was very poorly done. The rope broke in the thimble and not outside of the splice. If the test was performed correctly, you’d see the synthetic line still stores energy. All lines store energy and synthetic is much more subject to abrasion and damage. The most important thing is to use a like that is appropriately rated for the load you’re putting on it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gGPZc51rp7yXjrcsi=ezf95o9N4VPnxQtZ