Tesla will have driver monitoring before level 5 | George Hotz and Lex Fridman

Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: • George Hotz: Hacking t...
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[@CarlosElPeruacho]

I think driver monitoring makes sense from an FSD perspective. When watching the driving behavior of an individual, knowing what they're doing when a decision is made is paramount to separating deliberate choices from poor habits influencing input. If a vehicle swerves suddenly and the driver is looking down at their phone, you can correlate that the input was not based on a decision the driver made from something on the road, but was actually human error as a result of distraction.

[@ryantrin]

I’m so appreciative for this channel 🙏🏽

[@michellecampione7991]

Me too!!

[@ryantrin]

Nothing is force fed here. I choose to pay attention here because I connect with it to my core

[@NecroSexy]

His comment of excessive alerts reminds me of the airline industry's excessive alerts in prior years that did lead to certain situations of pilots tuning out the warnings.

[@my2cents395]

Driver monitoring works if there is a driver. Driverless Robo Taxis will have occupant monitoring. Customers will accept this if they want to use service.

[@dakotaquint4281]

@@Daniela-pr7rz the owner shouldn't be responsible if someone destroys their car.

[@johnpapiewski8232]

Love the series. Finally some youtube with a little intellectual depth

[@ethanBmartin]

Agreed, as CEO you have to exude confidence that your finite amount engineering effort is spent on the right thing at the right time.

[@nirau4184]

Amazing, thanks so much for your work

[@Brandon-iu4ot]

Very informative. Thank you.

[@GameTechRefuge]

If your goal is autonomous self driving, is driver monitoring not a distraction from that goal? I can understand why it might be desirable in the short term, for testing systems that approach an autonomous system. Would those resources not have a greater impact being deployed in pursuit of your primary goal. Surly driver monitoring is a feature of a dev/debug or beta version of a self driving car and not future mass production models? By focusing on driver monitoring in commercial vehicles, are we like some of our early 20th century counter parts, trying to hold on to our horses and not fully committing to the transition to self driving?

[@eamonglavin2532]

I disagree, you could make the same argument about lane keep assist, or cruise control, like ideally you don't need driver monitoring but we don't yet have level 5 autonomous systems therefore before we get there it is prudent and wise from a legal aspect to have driver monitoring, but you also must make it in a way that isn't annoying and doesn't piss people off otherwise it defeats the purpose.

[@musaran2]

I would rather have my driving-assist car monitor me. So that, for example, if it is unsure it should brake, and sees I am distracted at that moment, it does the safer thing. Tesla not doing this is the biggest head-scratcher me. They must have been overconfident they would solve FSD fast.

[@spiritusinfinitus]

Teslas have driver monitoring even if the camera remains off. It knows if the driver is paying attention by monitoring the LACK of interaction with steering and pedals. It could ramp up and lessen the check rate depending on interactions in recognised driving events and get an overall feel for the probability that the human driver is paying attention.

[@masivatak]

Welp, I guess no more shooting H while driving!

[@ilikebigbytes4371]

Put tape over the camera lol

[@josephapfelbeck6781]

Damn I’m pretty bummed out about it to bro!

[@a1-user]

@@ilikebigbytes4371 exactly what I thought! How else am I supposed to get road head without some pencil neck whacking off to his AI road head models?

[@bomma2694]

@@a1-user yeah, we don't need a camera or mic in our cars....... 🤦‍♂️

[@ThePatNaman]

Operating systems introduced the concept of over-the-air updates.

[@manueldavid7369]

the Tesla Model 3 and the Tesla Model Y always had a driver monitoring camera from the biginning.

[@markjames2338]

My experience in our Model 3 FSD behavior is the opposite. In town, in traffic, it's very confident. As long as other cars are around it can go 10 minutes between warnings, but on a open road by itself, it can be every 10 seconds. It sucks on long trips in low traffic areas.

[@rtsstream]

its speed based..so higher speed on the highway it will nag more often. things can go wrong quicker on the highway. I barely find myself using FSD..maybe once the new rewrite goes public ill end up using it a lot more. we have potholes around here and its too hard to disengage it constantly

[@markjames2338]

@@rtsstream I'm not sure about that. In a city with traffic like Vegas, it goes much longer between warnings. Anyway, it's old and irrelevant now. Just waiting for the release of the new 4D SW. It looks very promising.

[@descendency]

I think there is a significant chance that FSD Hardware 4 (or maybe a future version) will include a new inside camera array that enables driver monitoring. And it will become mandatory to have access to FSD (Tesla will upgrade for free). Either Tesla reaches level 4 FSD (and therefore takes legal responsibility for the driving) or they will continue to operate at Level 2+, putting the responsibility on the owner, and eventually requiring (by law?) an active driver monitoring system.

[@ndxs]

Most underrated channel

[@cvheifner01]

Comma 3 is amazing. One of the best purchases I’ve ever made.

[@larrybutler8794]

I’m just curious, what about speed limits and highway speed enforcement nobody drive the speed limit when a policeman pulled you over can you blame the AI system?

[@frankiecuellar]

Looking at over all of the stores talking about what's the point of having this technology in the beginning I thought it was very cool to have a self-driving car but now the more I think about it is like what do we need it for it just so we can show off to our friends they look I'm not holding this steering wheel that's pretty much the only reason other than that I think it's really stupid idea and I'm 25 years old?

[@efibendor1]

How about adding the guest info/bio/intro on the vid description ?

[@arnavrawat9864]

I think I relate to Elon musk's pov The thing is that driver monitoring is taking the easy way out If a company goes driver monitoring, then they will further improve that, when they should be improving the fundamental performance of the car. Really reducing the risk

[@dylanlong6269]

@@Daniela-pr7rz My take is: what Tesla has is enough. Why add more materials, cost, and effort into each vehicle when it will be completely unnecessary when FSD is released, which Tesla is very bullish on. How many times have there been accidents because the steering wheel nag wasn't enough? People that "fall asleep" are not new to Teslas. They're either intentionally tricking the system (which they likely would find a way to do with the camera too), or are just faking it for views. I really don't think there's a problem here. Remember that the reason Tesla's current driver monitoring is how it is is because it does not require any hardware specifically for driver monitoring. The motor that controls the steering column in Autopilot can sense extra resistance through specific software alone. Therefore, when the cars are FSD, nothing is vestigial.

[@EricM93]

How hard is it to understand we want some privacy in our lives? Do we have to be taped at all times, everywhere?

[@AllenChildress]

As long as other people's lives are on the line, and you want want FSD, then absolutely Yes. If you fully take the responsibility yourself, then no.

[@ilikebigbytes4371]

I love these

[@titanwilkins4044]

Yeah they really are great

[@kurtisrobertson2151]

Interesting!

[@revmatchtv]

Love me some Geohot

[@duluthdjs2588]

Driver monitoring is pointless. Makes sense to do it today but down the road it will be pointless. They will need full car monitoring for the taxi service.

[@ulfschack]

I love crazy geohot

[@Samuel-ym7ls]

IF your goal is, the car driving itself, why would you focus on monitoring the driver??? The goal of self driving car, there will not be a driver.

[@michaelh13]

There should be a bridging between humans driving and full self automation, which is driver monitoring

[@AllenChildress]

01:00 Apparently these guys have never had a deer run out in front of their car on a long isolated highway. I can understand, since many people who do - don't survive the process. I am just one of the lucky ones. You can bet that I am very vigilant, especially popping the top of a hill on chilled nights about 1am. Because you have less than a second to recognize and respond to a bounding 300 pound brick wall.

[@RichardPeterShon]

Man u guys talk trippy

[@georgevarughese9486]

Is it possible that if and when Tesla achieves level 5 and perfects it, you don't even need a steering wheel or human driver. So, what is the relevance of driver monitoring in that scenario?

[@MrAlRats]

None probably. Driver monitoring is needed for the transition towards level 5.

[@aniaugus]

5:40 I think about me as a "human" yeah right lex, we all believe you

[@redmastern576]

This guy seems off, I am 27% sure he is a bot. Have you seen the hbo tv show raised by wolves.

[@shanesharpnack6999]

Lex saw you Rogen a couple of times. Love the channel and all the topics you talk about! I play guitar to seen you got skills in that to!! Wish we could grab a beer and shoot the shit lol!

[@m3po22]

He was right.

[@47solar43]

Driver monitoring is one of the baby steps toward the societal and legislative acceptance of FSD; aka, you sit in the backseat the car does all the driving.

[@5imon5imon1]

Is lex the new JRE?

[@lanceharper4107]

Better

[@mycologist1372]

Its like Joe rogan without the dmt

[@DropSet_Nicky]

Better because he’s actually smart! 😂👅

[@williamsutherland1175]

Naw, Tim Dillon is

[@chrisd997]

George should really give it a try lending his voice for cartoon characters. His voice would be really great! and no offence behind the suggestion

[@louismasar6147]

Humanity can assess risk? How did 2020 happen?

[@EricM93]

lol

[@lanceharper4107]

Lol plenty of humans can they just tend to be intelligent enough not to run for public office

[@master0fnone]

Due to regulations Driver Monitoring will become mandatory in 2022.

[@rahall7611]

I don't want any cams inside my car.

[@steveblomefield9513]

Driver monitoring is obviously the right way to go if drivers are behind the wheel. But Tesla is aiming for robotaxis where there I no driver behind the wheel. Therefore right from the beginning, he is aiming for robotaxi level perfection.

[@rtod4]

Great talk. If a driver, say a man for arguments sake and ease of pronouns, has both hands on the wheel and his eyes are on the road, open straight road, what would trigger a warning? If the driver is smiling, would he be more or less likely to get a warning?

[@Shewib]

I've got a solution. Get rid of cars. Redesign towns so that everything is within walking distance. Have trains connect towns. This is a win-win-win. A win for safety. A win for health (more walking). And a win for community.

[@Shewib]

@@pflernak We can't allow COVID to dictate all our decisions. Find way to make it safe,

[@phanikadali3604]

4:24 Thumbnail

[@AwsomeKidOtis]

This guy is a human robot

[@MattSeabolt]

Incorrect

[@ThePervertedHymns]

I like driving... (just saying)

[@edwardaziria5710]

U say us humans alot

[@mycologist1372]

All robots do

[@glencecil293]

Elon is constantly trying to perfect the feedback loop so he can be less wrong. What do you mean he doesn't want to admit publicly when he is wrong?

[@bigdougscommentary5719]

If this guy is so brilliant how come EVERYONE is beating a path to his door?

[@StevenPeeters]

Tesla will have driver monitoring to get to level 3.

[@BradHolkesvig]

If I have someone riding with me in a car while having an interesting conversation, I am on autopilot while I'm focused on the conversation. I even get lost when I divert my attention back to where I''m at on the road and don't immediately know where I'm at. No AI system can do that.

[@dareobasade2696]

Why would you want an AI system that’s able to be distracted from its task? This is counterintuitive, the AI is not human

[@BradHolkesvig]

@@dareobasade2696 You have to think that our MIND ( AI system with a Voice ) is much more sophisticated than the AI's that human hands have built recently but our MIND is in fact, comparable to an AI system that speaks. The MIND of a MAN ( male and female ) is how life is experienced. There is nothing outside the MIND.

[@MeetTerry]

Driver monitoring is focusing on the wrong thing.

[@fryphillipj560]

focusing? it is so easy, it is already done (in openpilot)

[@tomvice]

Get a casual dark gray blazer. Black suits are not worn in offices.

[@georgehope5477]

Conform!

[@t-bagged_by_god7311]

Worry about yourself buddy

[@1man1bike1road]

People just want lvl 5 anything else sucks there are millions of people that cant go near a car without lvl 5

[@1man1bike1road]

@chinese knees people who cant physically drive the blind etc its lvl 5 or nothing

[@neodark414]

You don't need driver monitoring for a system that is engineered to eventually be a better driver than the human sitting in the front seat. It's irrelevant

[@yunho-cho]

In the last episode with George Hotz, his main point was that Tesla (or anyone else on the table) is currently unable to present a viable solution for weird, underexplored edge cases (not covered well with the existing data) and will not for quite some time. To address your initial point, driver monitoring is necessary because while AutoPilot will drive better than humans do in most normal cases, the possibility of failing catastrophically is not eliminated.

[@yfva123]

@@yunho-cho ok but than you can say the system is level 4 or 5. Max level 3

[@neodark414]

@@yunho-cho I would agree that it is nessecery for a vehicle that is only ever driving when a human is in the car. Tesla has been designing autopilot to not only drive itself with a person in the car, but also completely on its own. Like driving you to work in the morning and then driving itself back to your house. In that situation you cannot depend on the driver. The system needs to be robust enough to drive completely on its own. I believe that is what Tesla is working towards and from their latest beta test videos it look like they are quite close. I think they underestimate Elon Musk.

[@wokeman9928]

Can I join his discord ? Haha

[@hrklsrpr3115]

Find a small group of drivers that are, statistically, always paying attention and have them quickly minimize the number of driving regrets; problem solved plus no need to collect unfruitful data from inattentive drivers.

[@NickTaylorRickPowers]

Calculating human risk otherwise known as She'll be right

[@andydwyer2588]

Haha are you a fan of the yt channel how to dad

[@635574]

Inside cams are for robotaxi, tesla is skipping L4. Waymo is a dead end

[@JWfrom95938]

Tesla will never achieve Level 5