Oct 7 attacks by Hamas | Israel-Palestine Debate and Lex Fridman

Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: • Israel-Palestine Debat...
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GUEST BIO:
Norman Finkelstein and Benny Morris are historians. Mouin Rabbani is a Middle East analyst. Steven Bonnell (aka Destiny) is a political livestreamer.
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[@LexClips]

Full podcast episode: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z4nCfJehpKyridU Lex Fridman podcast channel: kzbin.info Guest bio: Norman Finkelstein and Benny Morris are historians. Mouin Rabbani is a Middle East analyst. Steven Bonnell (aka Destiny) is a political livestreamer.

[@RanjakarPatel]

Hello my dear. Please. This man blue hairs no very smartly. He make very very race four my country. But u enjoi four his small branes. Please my beauty. My colour good colour. All colour good colour. I know you are from the Jewel. but equalitee more importance four Martin Luther king dreams

[@RanjakarPatel]

You were my hero my beauty . Number one man for number one computer. But now you become love four the tube. And four beautiful ladee. It is good four enjoi and make lovely. But also good four remember humanitarian and four all same colour equal same rights. Please read four the book four make me proud like my son.

[@user-gh6fv7gw9z]

The armed terrorists lead by Charles de Gaulle to fight the German Nazis were called resistance . That only happened for two years 1942-1944 but the Palestinians freedom fighters married arms since 1917 after Balfour declaration ,they were always called terrorists first by the British then by the civilized (white race )

[@BbeMamGaga]

You are blind and sours, that’s all!

[@nirprizant4228]

muslim think the others are lying cus there hole culture is build on lies ----average Egyptian were found to lie 35 times a day -----when Turk ordered lie detectors from europe they needed calibration to become more sensitive

[@mindfulstoic3095]

Finkelstein: What's your name? Destiny: Bonnell Finkelstein: OK. Thank you, Mr. Kurosawa

[@chiquitafeldberg8259]

Is one of his pretty gimmicks because he's threatened by Destiny. Childish man.

[@idontknow-tn9jm]

@@chiquitafeldberg8259 lol...honestly Destiny was out of his depth here, no idea why he was on with this group. Even his own debate partner starting laughing when Norm roasted him for not reading books near the end of the episode.

[@tfalani3861]

Destiny was so out of his depth and he knew it hence his frustration with Norman’s pestering of him. Looks to me like Finkelstein felt insulted that a Wikipedia reading KZbinr is even in the room 🤣🤣🤣

[@tfalani3861]

@@chiquitafeldberg8259threatened by a useless KZbinr?? be serious pls👎🏽🤣🤣🤣

[@just4music687]

I really don't think Finkelstein is "threatened" by "Destiny," that's kind of laughable. A scholar with a lifetime of serious work and a worldwide reputation for being the leading expert on the Israel/ Palestine conflict has no reason to be "threatened" by a KZbin personality whose ammunition is Wikipedia because he can't read books. Finkelstein has contempt for "Destiny," and rightly so. @@chiquitafeldberg8259

[@thisopinionwillexpire2662]

Lex’s Clip editor: “You call that a clip? THIS is a clip.” (posts hour and 17 minute clip)

[@nikkeipvck8529]

;lmao

[@samonaro65]

😂😂

[@chiquitafeldberg8259]

Because it was a 4hr debate. 😂

[@YourBestFriendforToday]

You cannot argue with a robot.

[@FullOnMetalHead1995]

​@@YourBestFriendforTodaywho are you refferring to?

[@endoritoo]

Density got roasted and went on his phone like an angsty teenager

[@wisemage0]

He has notes on his phone. ...or did you think he just started scrolling through instagram baddies mid-debate?

[@yehuda364]

Nah you’re projecting

[@desserteyes6978]

@@yehuda364na you are

[@yehuda364]

@@desserteyes6978 haha

[@desserteyes6978]

@@yehuda364 haha back

[@Completely_Incomplete]

The patience and coposure of Mouin Rabbani is out of this world

[@user-jm3eu6jk8v]

@Completely_Incomplete You refer to his manipulative way of using words. It takes time to create this strategy to mislead you.

[@Completely_Incomplete]

Yes I refer to the manipulative and convincing way he uses his words to give us facts. FACTS.

[@abbesieyesauralian7816]

@@Completely_Incomplete Which facts? 5 mins in he is dodging admitting the way Hamas operates....So maybe he is selective about facts?

[@Jchasser]

Mr. Brocconlini please never speak to me or my son again

[@unathimichaelmxaku8105]

Do you know him personally?

[@ScottsOnTheRottenCotton]

Do we really know anyone? All I know is I don’t know

[@BbeMamGaga]

I look forward to an independent investigation into the real events of October 7. Israel lies all the time and owes us the truth!

[@mollykyoto5220]

HAHAHHAHA❤👏

[@BbeMamGaga]

On 7 ocotbre, the Hannibal doctrine of Natanahou was brought to the rave party and danbs the Kiboutz. The army killed a lot of these people, open your eyes!

[@Amazinnnnnnnn]

I love how everyone gets addressed by their names and destiny gets addressed as "the moron" 🤣

[@kiffarcher8808]

because he is a moron...lol

[@meelash1]

No lie detected. 😂

[@IaMGucci1]

The man’s whole career is him yelling his opponent means some outlandish thing. Then immediately getting schooled on how he doesn’t understand the context basic English. I don’t myself

[@barondebarrou]

because he is

[@dfmrcv862]

Finklestein can really only namecall it seems.

[@Ed-zp2xo]

The Vietnam analogy is telling...Morris makes the point that Americans killed a million Vietnamese to demonstrate the restraint of the IDF, yet the Vietnam War lasted twenty years, so that's about 50,000 people a year. The population of Vietnam during the Vietnam War was about twenty times that of present day Gaza, so the IDF is actually murdering Palestinians at a pace that outweighs the US war machine in Vietnam

[@brandonpeters1618]

The US never really had a manned presence in Vietnam to the point they were killing people until about 1965 when the invasion started. So you only can really count the 7 years of actual fighting. So no, statistically speaking the IDF is not outpacing the US on Vietnamese casualties.

[@yanenn2151]

@@brandonpeters1618Even if you look at the period from 1965-1975 , Israel is still outpacing the vietnam war in terms of civilian deaths

[@davidgree1]

so did hamas@@yanenn2151

[@harkyo]

Genocide: an "Importantly guarded concept," indeed. Guarded by Israel. Only they can be victims.

[@jeffspicolli593]

Vietnam wasn't mostly urban warfare where civilians were used as human shields.

[@stevenkandro7453]

Normalize calling out idiots in serious conversations

[@williamlampke8083]

ad hominem

[@fitnessdicinyourmouth1438]

Or just plainly describe why they’re wrong instead of engaging in ad hominem

[@deathincluded3706]

Thats how you get civil wars where your side loses

[@fr.Angel21]

@@williamlampke8083 Destiny strawmans

[@williamlampke8083]

@@fr.Angel21 dude i dont even like destiny haha

[@Grim528]

“You’re such a fantastic moron, it’s terrifying!” 😂😂literally laughed til I cried

[@xxLeCurexx]

when you cant debate, insult.

[@tohmano5855]

The fact that he said this takes all credibility away from him in my eyes.

[@Grim528]

@@tohmano5855agreed

[@Grim528]

@@xxLeCurexx True. I’m not encouraging this behavior, I just thought it was hilarious

[@SuperAnzani]

"It's so painful to listen to this idiocracy" 😅...that killed me

[@MichaelDeppSTR]

Would like to see Ben Shapiro & Norm Finkelstein in a debate like this 😂😂

[@carms7758]

Can you imagine Moron and Ben having any debate!! Brain freeze!

[@user-dd2ew4fr8s]

Shapiro would'nt dare. He only debates nervous teenagers.. facts wouldnt care about his feelings...

[@RainaKaur-ud4hr]

Ben Shapiro is a waste of time

[@nimbletimplekins7601]

@@carms7758 so why is ben ducking him if he's a moron

[@timmcdraw7568]

If you just listen to it it actually sounds like we are.

[@snakey934Snakeybakey]

"Mr. Bonelli, let me just ask you this? Did you or did you not vote for Benito Mussolini?" "That happened to 64 years before I was born," "Don't try to change the subject Mr. Bortellini."

[@mcbattles]

🤣🤣🤣

[@Ed-zp2xo]

I'd never heard of Mouin Rabbini before, but I shall be subscribing to his newsletter. I like how he discusses everything calmly and rationally without appeals to sensationalism

[@KH-uv5ph]

Psst ... It's okay to have emotions.

[@OrEe87]

@@KH-uv5phit is, it’s just distracting.

[@jacksoncothren5831]

Even when it is obvious lies and oblivious ignorance? It doesn't take much ability to do that.

[@DMx4839]

Mouin Rabbani is a legend. I’ve learned a lot listening to him.

[@akshayneha]

No its more like appeals to technicalities

[@alexmarchuk7470]

we have 0.5x, 0.75x 1.00x 1.25x and 1.5x speed in the same debate

[@JustChadding_]

hmm 0.5 for me

[@YMD444]

When you don’t have a leg to stand on- just talk super fast…maybe that will help.🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️🙄

[@arighteousname5882]

​@@YMD444nice try. Cope harder

[@jumanasaadeh2817]

Please come up with a newer comment, this has been posted x100 times, seems like fishing for likes by this point

[@just4music687]

coz "Destiny" thinks speaking very very quickly means he will look "smart." It just looks hostile and arrogant. Which is what he is.

[@asadullah_exe]

I don’t understand how they still manage to lie so blatantly when there is evidence.

[@altFEL181]

It’s a talents only the heartless possess.

[@sorayaoswin3968]

Well they hope maybe one out 10 people will buy their lies 🤪

[@macrontellsjoe9571]

No concience. No humanity.

[@sabah5573]

Offended by everything. Ashamed of nothing. Israel in a nutshell.

[@bornforthc1247]

@@sabah5573that’s your 3rd world logic. Now apply an educated view and you see Muslim aggression suicide bombers etc etc, but it’s only the Israelis right. Muslim can’t accept responsibility that’s all.

[@Oliver_Tate]

Who could have imagined that we are going to watch 3 qualified people having such a valuable debate on KZbin.

[@arabest100]

I like how you discounted it

[@philipskalla4312]

If they had included a genuine historian instead of Norm, they could have had four qualified people.

[@Mrtroy12]

​@@philipskalla4312 yeah man thats because norm mostly relies on facts . He could be the best historian if he learn history from wikipedia or mainstream media.

[@philipskalla4312]

@@Mrtroy12 He is a crude propagandist who uses Nazi terminology about Jews.

[@mudslynger2109]

What about Mr. Parelli and Mr. Broccolini, with all due respect ?

[@TheDarkerAges]

Would've been nice if this debate was actually moderated so that we could hear each side's points more clearly.

[@johns1625]

Mr. Botticelli is certainly not a girls name.

[@rebeccadent464]

It's Italian.

[@GrandmaTudi]

it's a wine

[@mudslynger2109]

MR. BARELLI

[@brettstarks1846]

“Mr. Borelli/Morelli.” 😂 I feel like Norm did that on purpose.

[@psmorgan2542]

Yeah, he’s a self-righteous snobby douchey pop ‘academic’

[@duatchol7710]

Oh it definitely was. Destiny revealed that during they’re break, Norm referred to him perfectly correctly as Mr Bonell

[@abdc2990]

100% he said it perfectly during the break when he plausibly thought the camera would be cut off. Just trying to show he doesn't respect him. Kinda disappointing tbh

[@Dalisu87]

Ofcoz he did, Norm is a wordsmith

[@goldbluetears]

norm is a sneaky mf

[@WimbledonEngland]

Finkelstein to Barelli: ‘Please stop displaying your imbecility’ Morris laughing 😂😂

[@davidkonheim6543]

Norm is funny to laugh at he’s so socially unaware

[@user-be3ez7ei1e]

How did Benny Morris go from being a left wing jew opposed to the occupation to taking a hard turn to the right

[@principlemethods5281]

He got a phone call and a grand offer

[@jonathanmcgreal344]

It was the second intifada and the suicide bombings. I think his views are repulsive but that’s what did it. It was a despicable and destructive tactic even though I understand it was largely in retaliation to massacres of Palestinian demonstrators. Blind revenge that destroyed the image of Palestinians in the west. Still, free Palestine to be clear.

[@philipskalla4312]

He came of age.

[@gorkaaustin5306]

@@philipskalla4312good one lol

[@mkwke215]

He's still a left wing jew opposed to the occupation. What made you think otherwise?

[@screamstation]

Mr Morelli and Mr. Borelli are never going to win against Fantastic Moron and Motormouth.

[@1Deep43VA]

I think you have the names mixed up.

[@HumanBeingsRThinkingBeings]

Mind Begs the Question: - When Governed by Politicians - Who justify Starvation,Death Camps,Gassing/White Phosphorus,Ethnic Cleansing,etc - Governed by Righteous or Satanic?

[@JJ-qc6lh]

@@HumanBeingsRThinkingBeings hamas. excpet for white phosphorus, which i assume you talk about israel and although it looks bad it was deployed fully legaly (yes it is legal to use white phosphorus in certain conditions).

[@HumanBeingsRThinkingBeings]

Mind Begs the Question: - If a Israel PM/Govt in 2019 - Publicly promoted funding Hamas - To avoid 2 State Solution - Condemns Hamas or Funds Hamas?

[@1Deep43VA]

@@HumanBeingsRThinkingBeings All valid points. Ones they never ask themselves. Their were multiple warnings from soldiers who witnessed Hamas training, to the plan they found that detailed everything they ultimately did on the 7th, to the multiple warnings from multiple countries intelligence agencies across a timeline leading towards the 7th to how long it took them to respond to the attacks despite Israel not being a very big territory to the videos of helicopters blowing up cars that were heading back to Gaza. Cars filled with Israeli hostages. There were so many burned vehicles. Begs the question how many people did they lose to the Hannibal Directive. The Israeli government also quickly buried the evidence (literally) before anyone could analyze the vehicles. I’m not saying Hamas didn’t commit atrocities on the 7th but certainly didn’t to the extent to which Israel initially reported. They made up these perverted and sadistic stories to bolster hate to justify what they’ve ultimately being doing ever since… why aren’t we allowed to ask very pertinent questions about it?

[@PureStoneee]

im calling destiny mr borrelli from now on 😂

[@middleagebrotips3454]

Beta borrelli

[@siddharthavicious108]

*Miss Borrelli

[@JesusChrist-ky9lw]

💀💀💀

[@bayuprawitasari1894]

Mr Broccoli 🥦

[@pattonesk]

mr borelli the "fantasic moron"

[@Brigitte54881]

Just love Norman Finkelstein. He knows the history to the “T”. No one can logically debate him.

[@andrew8658]

“30,000 human shields” 😂😂 what a sack of potatoes

[@iby914]

The fact they have Destiny on this panel is absolutely hilarious. Talk about the odd one out.

[@lilleomessi]

I think Destiny is there to represent (arguably) this generation's understanding of the subject at hand. I would like to think that for KZbinrs who deal with the conflict, Destiny seems to be a fair liberal who isn't pro Palestine nor Israel. He seems to generally represent the average knowledgeable guy who isn't a PhD expert on anything related to the matter.

[@tylerseguin]

@@lilleomessi The younger generations are overwhelmingly pro-Palestinian (according to many polls), so I don't think Destiny's position is representative of them.

[@davidsoup1738]

The odd one out because his arguments were some of the best, I agree. Him and Benny Morris absolutely schooled Norm... he came out looking like a faux historian... oh wait... he is.

[@iby914]

@@davidsoup1738 - lol. Enjoy living in your alternative reality.

[@caitthecat]

​@@lilleomessiI think he's there because he had previously asked to debate Norm and then didn't show up, even though he asked.

[@User-hn1wg]

Names of books read by prof Norman in this episode? Thanks!

[@jltdltdltd]

I can see why Finkelstein gets run out of every university he works at

[@yasiranzar4343]

This is how the debate supposed to be on a national tv, but it's happening on KZbin

[@kyle1235]

Dude KZbin is national tv now

[@malikaveli]

Look away from Destiny and I totally agree

[@sallybrookner4158]

You can watch KZbin on your TV. Not sure what “national tv” means.

[@dubrulphilippe3815]

Once I have found how wonderfully debates and podcasts there are on the internet I stopped watching TV, TV is a waist of time, money.

[@MillieMe05]

No in a good debate you wouldn’t have Norm trying to yell everyone down.

[@adinahaun6001]

This guy in the black sweater sitting next to Benny in insufferable and impossible to listen to for more than a couple of minutes.

[@alitarak4640]

whooow can u really listen to this idiot a whole minute ?

[@principlemethods5281]

Who? Mr. Bonatelli?

[@philipskalla4312]

You don't find the man ranting opposite him insufferable?

[@SRBOMBONICA86]

​@@philipskalla4312no ,dude in black is unbelievably immature

[@maddogx55]

@@SRBOMBONICA86immature how?

[@auradesireewooldridge9122]

I just started watching this and I love how spectacularly entertained Norm is while reading facts up on his book 😂😂😂

[@ruthlieberman7157]

Norm is a Self hating Jew

[@IronHeel]

I've followed Finklestein since the early 2000's and he has become insufferable.

[@Rafaelacarlina]

Israel propaganda is Insufferable and this Racists Zionism criminals...Morris 🙄..

[@NightViewomycity]

The Wikipedia scholar wasted the debate

[@blackdynamite_5470]

You are now dumber after having listened to him

[@TheSethOlson]

Yes because he was the one who was calling the others morons and talking over his opponents when they were bringing up counter points

[@TheSethOlson]

Yes because he was the one to call his opponents morons, and interrupt them when they bring up counter points…

[@porter9494]

Finklebiatch lost bigly. Palestine will be free... Free from Hamas and palestinians. From the River to the Sea Israel is all that will be. 🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱 Mauslemz lost the war. Right now gazans are running, crying and praying to their prophet and his 6yo wife. Will he save them? Nope. Justice for Aisha (she was 6).

[@seanericson907]

​@porter9494 Everyday we inch closer to a reality where everyone knows the type of monsters you people are.

[@cleetx3546]

How do you kill 30,000 unintentionally ?

[@sindibadage]

Blowing hundreds of km of tunnels under civilian buildings? By terrorists hiding in hospitals, schools, mosques surrounded by civilians including children?

[@FromTheAshes0762]

It's quite easy to do when your opponents intentionally hide amongst civilians. The numbers don't determine intent as hard as it is to imagine 30 thousand killed. If you look into the numbers, it's about 2 civilians for every one fighter killed, and even that sounds bad, but in a dense urban environment and compared to any other dense urban conflict, it is surprisingly low. Now, it doesn't make the numbers any less bad to imagine, but you would expect far more if it was intentional.

[@bloom4807]

Most of these 30,000 are Hamas.

[@shovanbijoy7136]

​@@bloom4807there it is, a n

[@carmelobazzano5703]

​@@FromTheAshes0762An absurd mathematical argument.

[@selinaiqbal76]

Really dont like how destony could interrupt at every turn but the professor was told off. Shows how times are favouring fools instead of the literate

[@philipskalla4312]

The professor deserved to be told off.

[@chaplainbeats7028]

There were three men here who suck at debate.

[@deanodebo]

Is there an argument for the presupposition that any violent conflict SHOULD have proportional casualties?

[@user-zj5kj4tc8e]

That man's voice is on helium. Same as Ben Shipp

[@kullenberg]

I just realized how much he sounds like Jordan B. Peterson

[@justanotherviewer7117]

Which makes it even funnier when he does his attempted 'the hard facts of war' cynical talk, like he's General Patton!

[@jorgemartinez42069]

You talking about Professor Finklestern? Or?

[@kiffarcher8808]

zionists are freaking out ...supremacy cults have been exposed..

[@rocksparadox]

@@justanotherviewer7117 Exactly, his whole ''I'm a prah-fessah in ''passive progressive politicoloconflictology'' and no one else can make any sense of this'' shtick brings some other P's to mind, pedantic, pathetic (his shrill voice), and the weak attempts to mask his lack of substance by interrupting and yelling.

[@JVan34]

You can’t talk over people in these debates! Makes this insufferable

[@IstanaAnginWorldwide]

Lex let Benny interrupt Norman at the beginning.

[@mudigows6737]

​@@IstanaAnginWorldwideThy did not want him to talk at all 9:57, at the dude at center must Been playing games on his mobile, probably got paid alot to let those two do what thy want, after all its dumb to engage a fair debate with norman specially if ur trying to defend Israel, literally un defensible.

[@Slewdydoo]

​@@mudigows6737if you listen enough to Norm not allowing anyone else to speak without shouting over them is his modus operandi as is with most pro Palestinian commentators.

[@THEE_Kisywisy]

@@SlewdydooLex let the interruptions happen to norm, so norm matched energy. Lex was fucking awful. Norm couldn’t get through a point

[@Italiana71]

1:02:12 So, Israel is not committing the crime of genocide, even though, 15 judges at the ICJ believe the continuation of Israel’s military offensive in Gaza, may lead to a “Plausible Genocide”; yet, absent of substantive evidence, we SHOULD believe “Hamas carried out systemic rape on 10/7”?

[@realnews2474]

An invading force can NOT be a victim.

[@insikwakwak8299]

Norman when being cornered proceeded to attack personally. Classic behaviour of a person losing an argument.

[@bradws4eva]

This could be one of the best debates I've ever watched through about this matter. What it makes very clear for me is that this is never going to be solved in our lifetimes

[@snoopcelev1590]

I didn't find it constructive at all. It does showcase how intractable the two sides are, which is ironic in some sense

[@bradws4eva]

@@snoopcelev1590 I don't think it's meant to be constructive between the participants, it's meant to be constructive with the audience. It should help us make up our minds about our (generally irrelevant) opinions on the matter. I don't think the people participating in these debates ever really change their minds. They fortify their minds against change

[@middleagebrotips3454]

When money, power and land is on the line, that's how it goes. ​@@snoopcelev1590

[@thomasdalton2404]

800 Israeli civilians on October 7. 12,000 Children in the last 4 months in Gaza.

[@thinkinsidetheboxsquarecir3303]

Nothing against Norman, in fact I’m on his side of the debate. He’s usually on point with these topics. But until we see Paly-Stinian at the table to debate, it’s never going to be resolved! Weasels like destiny and Zios will ensure that no one blames is-reel. Pardon my intentional misspelling. Which speaks volume to my point and zio influence on censorship!

[@sinerehber]

37:37 Norm: "Mr. Barelli. You are such a fantastic moron!" 🤣

[@iconiclust]

The way his partner even laughs at him 😭

[@jyotin.sengupta3712]

Is the current bombing and shelling in Gaza by Israel can be defined as war when there is no counterattack by people of Gaza.

[@Belisarius-if3zl]

The bombing is the counterattack

[@newbeginnings3859]

Respectfully, destiny is out of his depths. This is a personal lesson on what can happen to people who don’t discipline their minds.. you can be completely propagandized and used to whitewash a genocide

[@giftedtheos]

You only say that because you don't agree with his view. If you agreed with his view you would not say that

[@davidbarber3821]

Just like when he said down with Jordan Peterson

[@trappaboiitee]

@@giftedtheosduh because his view comes from ignorance why would you agree with ignorance

[@krysarak]

Not at all, he is fast thinker and effective info searcher.

[@tcritt]

When a clip of the debate is 1 hour 17 minutes long.

[@ryanpie1974]

MR. BERELLI!

[@tariqkhonji6556]

Monelli

[@ezragoldberg3132]

✋ MR BARBELLI! 💪

[@fartsfartington9019]

MR. BIRD-DELI!

[@Totodeliberator]

Mr Bowlajelli

[@BigD123749]

Norm calls out benny for what hes written about that old war but forgets how he was called out by Morgan a few weeks back about what he wrote about Octover 7th and then tried to deny it and try twist his own words, norm is clearly clever AF but also clearly biased and hateful AF

[@philipskalla4312]

Norm is an apologist for genocidists.

[@jamesdean4922]

The admission of "I was wrong" to Benny Morris seemed to be an unfamiliar concept

[@denverlove]

Who’s the guy sitting next to Norm? What an amazing articulate scholar!!

[@zebulon182]

The exact opposite of norm

[@martincerny3294]

He was the adult at that side of the table

[@yakari7983]

Very ill-informed,uninformed,unreasonable, and selective despite his calm manner of speech.

[@denverlove]

@@yakari7983 I guess anyone who opposes the Israeli government and is pro human rights for Palestinians would be considered ill informed by you.

[@yakari7983]

@@denverlove fucjk Israel and Ppalestine. I want truth not emotional,selectively picked cherries that happen to be in horse shit.

[@Magixter]

Innovating the game. The first 1 hour long short clip.

[@firingallcylinders2949]

Very based editor

[@fabulamcafee]

you have a lot more of such at destiny clip channels

[@jamesdean4922]

The Wikipedia Lawyer is more qualified than 15 Judges that actually went to Law school.

[@rocketjim54]

Thanks Lex, for this debate. Difficult and chaotic and times but over all good to listen to. More of this is needed.

[@user-fv3ih8uo8o]

These guys are trained to gaslight, speak loud, fast and run time out so that the other side is not heard.

[@Billyjoe78517]

Except it was a 5 hour long debate with no time limit, so how would he be able to run time out?

[@paulsquibbs5580]

Because in the full 5hrs they never actually discuss anything sensibly and honestly, they merely try to win or appear to win in arguments surrounding a particular issue. They could argue just as ferociously and vehemently over the rules of tiddlywinks… These guys are not about reasoning sensible solutions, they’re all about trying to proliferate their own careers based on using semantics to look like they are winning arguments. Nothing good ever comes from these arguments, we need more transparent honest discussions that can actually lead to viable solutions.

[@theobservationsreal3291]

​@@Billyjoe78517 5 hours?

[@theobservationsreal3291]

​@@Billyjoe78517 cancel that I found it, I felt this cut short right in the middle of things

[@connorbrady5689]

@@theobservationsreal3291 The entire debate was 5 hours, this is a clip

[@GusJohnson-bj5lh]

Five people in a room... and what have we got...? One moderator, obviously not saying much... one VERY calm, cool and collected participant, a lawyer... one VERY KNOWLEDGE participant who had to shout to be heard... and then there were two others...

[@justanotherviewer7117]

The last two could be classified as cultists.

[@ProgressiveWindsor]

You think Destiny interrupted Norm more often than vice-versa?

[@Slewdydoo]

Shouting doesn't make you right, that's what all pro Palestinian commentators do. If it's the west your relying on to intervene the minorities in those countries ain't gonna cause enough hassle to justify it. You picked this latest fight, deal with it.

[@tugger]

you are a baby who resorts to "he started it" @@Slewdydoo

[@thinkinsidetheboxsquarecir3303]

Nothing against Norman, in fact I’m on his side of the debate. He’s usually on point with these topics. But until we see a Paly-Stinian at the table to debate, it’s never going to be resolved! Weasels like destiny and Zios sheels will ensure that no one blames is-real. They not going to acknowledge unfavorable truth! Pardon my intentional misspelling. Which speaks volume to my point and zio influence on censorship!

[@grevoni]

Prof Finkelstein read Prof Morris’ quote saying Israel tried to avoid civilian casualties and followed it with a diary excerpt of a military official’s view of the horrors he saw and acted like that was a point. Am I missing something? To me that doesn’t seem to prove that there were actions that targeted civilians.

[@alen2773]

In 2024 you gotta be braindead to think israel doesn’t target civilians. Too much evidence

[@garrethenderson9695]

lol I didn’t even know Lex was there until 14 minutes in. That’s why he’s the best.

[@akhaliquk]

Let's not make this about Netanyahu. They will now use him as a scapegoat. There have been much worse before him, with him, and there are worse in government, not to forget to mention that the majority of the population supports the genocide regardless of Netanyahu. The problem is more profound and has lasted longer than the last few months. It's all on record, which won't take much effort to research.

[@dixztube]

Ya but so long as they have all this influence I fear little will change. It’s hard to wrap my mind around what’s going on. It’s absolutely insane

[@bloom4807]

You are delusional.

[@robertpirsig5011]

He needs to be on trial at the Hague and to never see the light of day again. Maybe that might be a signal to Israel that these actions have been totally out of control for too long.

[@JBHACKSAW]

That's no good evidence of a genocide. You don't even know what needs to be shown to show its a genocide. This is as not a genocide as is possible. If you want a clear example of a genocide, look up memri tv on October 7 and the statements from hamas later to clarify that it was a genocide and it shouldn't be confused in any way.

[@codyvandal2860]

@@JBHACKSAW The ICJ and the UN have already confirmed that it is. There is nothing to debate.

[@jacobreuter]

I would say Mr Borelli/Mr Bowerl/Mr Burelli/Mr Bernard/Mr Bernand had some solid points.

[@Rafaelacarlina]

😂😂😂😂

[@mikeg2306]

Calling names is not an argument.

[@jacobreuter]

@@mikeg2306 no shit, thats the point of the comment.

[@jefffoster7105]

Lawyers involved 😂😂 In drone attacks .. is he for real? So is he seriously trying to tell us that lawyers are involved in the decision to target a drone attack? Not having it its a ridiculous statement.

[@acew2306]

Movies like Zero Dark Thirty and Captain Phillips have RUINED people's perception of how decision making is made within command structures. No, sharp shooters don't get the command to shoot directly from the fucking president.

[@jefffoster7105]

@acew2306 I know brother . From the "kin president my arse !! 😄 🤣

[@user-lg8pp8gl2v]

Norm Taking about dead kids and destiny says “what are you trying to prove!?”

[@hamnaahmad3579]

THIS. This was the last straw. What an utter imbecile.

[@outlandish8]

Destiny is disgusting. He tried to justify Israel killing those 4 boys on the beach in broad daylight with a drone strike. Just like Norman said, it’s painful to listen to.

[@bigwillieforlife]

because virtue signalling about dead children doesnt move a needle in the ongoing debate

[@syedimam8328]

@@bigwillieforlifetalking about the murdered. Golden isn’t virtue signaling. It’s the one constant truth. Israel murdered innocent children, women and men.

[@outlandish8]

@@bigwillieforlife exactly right. Pro-Israelis have no humanity or compassion, so they treat the discussion of dead children as a debate tactic rather than as a real problem.

[@PhillyJohnny]

A good analogy is the My Lai disaster in Vietnam. The US troops intentionally killed women and children in the village and yet it was not an approved game plan by the US military generals. It was a rogue unit who made a terrible mistake. They are claiming that Hamas would intentionally conduct a My Lai against every village if they could have.

[@SK-lf2iv]

is destiny claiming to be smarter and more knowledgeable than 15 high court judges really?! lol smh

[@M0nkZer0]

What is Destiny's claim to fame? Not sure why he is in this debate honestly

[@user-jy8vm1xz8x]

Yes he is not in the class of other guests

[@jacksonrauch9429]

Who calls themselves “destiny”? What a tool

[@davidsoup1738]

His claim to fame is a whole shit ton of research and pretty damn coherent arguments. Maybe try listening to what he says instead of focusing on his credentials.

[@blackdynamite_5470]

@davidsoup1738I You're such a fantastic moron, it's terrifying

[@andrew8658]

@@davidsoup1738lmao 😂😂

[@Invaderxenu]

Mouin Rabbani was trying really hard to keep his side together. Watch how many times he reaches over to try and reel it in. 😅

[@The_ScapeGoat]

His partner is a narcissistic attention 304. He had no chance of reeling it in.

[@usamasadiq8567]

Stupidity annoys Norm it seems.

[@cero4590]

@@usamasadiq8567just like brown people annoy him

[@jorgemartinez42069]

​@@usamasadiq8567So does good faith debate and critical thinking skills.

[@giovalladares1022]

Until the absolute end of the debate when the coward tried to sneak in his own ad homs against Destiny. I actually thought he was very respectable until he tried to imply Destiny was pro Jim Crow/ pro apartheid.

[@fohelmli]

I'm grateful to KZbin for providing us with these debates. My view of the Israel/Palestine question has been greatly influenced by Gideon Levi, Ilan Pappe, professor Finkelstein and Noam Chomsky, all of Jewish heritage. I'm totally against providing IDF with armaments!

[@JakeFallis75]

Destiny is Very disrespectful by calling Professor Finklestein Norm as if they are friends. A younger person who respects her elders would follow the lead of the elder by responding or referring to that elder, the same way your first to him. Professor used Mr. _____, whatever his name is.

[@ruthlieberman7157]

Is Norm your hero? 😂

[@G00dwILLHuNt1n9]

The title should be renamed "Mr Pirelli and 3 scholars debate about Israel-Palestine"

[@philipskalla4312]

Finkelstein is not a genuine scholar; he is a propagandist.

[@z-todd1437]

When u start attacking and insulting the people you’re debating you’ve lost the debate.

[@timmcdraw7568]

Says someone every single time theres a debate. Drink!

[@someguyontheinternet2729]

​@@timmcdraw7568yeah, which is true so what's your point?

[@nkinash321]

Point is finkelstein is a cenile old empty headed activist and this is coming from a guy who doesn't think Israel should exist. It's so pathetic listening to someone who has so much bad faith. Terrible arguments, inability to listen ND engage...hrs literally the worst. Oh I read everything 100 times and then comes up with a nothing argument as a result . I've never met someone I wanted to give a fist hug to more than this guy

[@tobysmith2081]

What a stupid way to analyze debates. The winner is the one who makes the best arguments. Both sides insult each other, that is independent of their arguments

[@someguyontheinternet2729]

@@tobysmith2081 that's the point dummy, Finkelstein is refusing to engage with the arguments and resorts to insults

[@jacksoncothren5831]

Plausibility is not the same as qualifying. Damn near anything is plausible. Especially when it comes to war.

[@roadtohope]

Very good debate by Norman and Rabbani

[@IstanaAnginWorldwide]

So coordinated and organized that they let October 7 happen. 🤷‍♂️

[@yakinthebox]

????

[@ahditah8102]

They wanted an excuse

[@ahditah8102]

Fuck KZbin

[@mikewallace9773]

Destiny's tablet and coffe cup are in what's known as Quantum Super-position

[@helix9268]

😂😂😂 what

[@widowsson8192]

Destiny has to Google stuff because he doesn't know anything he pretends to know about.

[@Chuckmantis]

​@@widowsson8192 having a record and using sources doesn't make someone unintelligent. Quite the opposite...

[@kari8187]

😂 I see it

[@jaizizkool]

@@ChuckmantisWhat do you mean? Fact checking things live clearly means you're not educated. /s

[@Gyro414]

Mr. Borrelli brought out Norman Finkelstein's theatrics beautifully 😆

[@sueleeves2600]

They are smiling while they are discussing the murder and rape of young people, children, babies and elderly. There is no hope for humanity. My heart weeps.

[@jimcardenas3131]

Nervous tick exhibited by Mr Borelli periodically ranting and then ending his rant by looking down and circling something on his paper.

[@LetsBendReality]

In reference to the Gazan kids on the beach incident: "An account of the investigation, posted late on Thursday by military spokesman Lt Col Peter Lerner, said the strike had targeted a “compound” which had been known as belonging to Hamas’s Naval Police and Naval Force (including naval commandos)”. But journalists who attended the scene in the immediate aftermath of the attack - including a reporter from the Guardian - saw a small and dilapidated fisherman’s hut containing a few tools where the children had been playing hide-and-seek. Mohammad Ramiz Bakr, 11, Ahed Atef Bakr and Zakariya Ahed Bakr, both 10, and Ismail Mahmoud Bakr, nine, were killed when they were hit by explosive rounds. Three of them died as they sought to flee the beach after the first child was killed." - News article from Guardian

[@Jay-zq2um]

This comment section is very strange to me, I wonder out of the 3k comments who's actually LISTENING to the debate here. Because it is clear that Finklestein purposely misquotes and takes things out of context to strengthen his arguments and any unbiased listener should find that problematic. How he chooses to agree with UN assessments when they support his narrative but ignores them when they don't should be a telling sign again to the unbiased observer. This comment section is an unfortunate indictment on the level of critical thinking skills we have in this country. Furthermore constantly belittling your opponent because he annoys you as oppose to disagreeing with actual decent rebuttals backed by evidence is even more telling of Finklestein's character, note: no one belittled Norman even once.

[@rookiebadouch3239]

This comment section was sponsored by Iran

[@MrWipcarrot]

Hearing that he wants to be very careful with words regarding October 7 from a man who never hesitated equating Israelis to Nazis, saying that Gaza is concentration camp like Auschwitz, made me want to stop listening.

[@wisemage0]

KZbin comments sections are notoriously easy to brigade.

[@nicholascooper1092]

I agree with you

[@trevorsaunders566]

Finkelstein is the stupidest person I have ever heard

[@perrybenedict5983]

The sound of Joe Rogan explaining why he makes guests wear headphones, keeps ringing in my ears every time I hear all 4 of them try talking at once.

[@tugger]

sound design is everything

[@outlandish8]

Or when they were sitting too far from the mic (Morris and Finkelstein sometimes)

[@lindokuhlemotsa8806]

Motormouth being here was a mistake

[@AndrewMaxVaca]

10,000 books, 0 original thoughts. These academics spend their lives reading about the works of other men. I don’t side with either person here. Just pathetic hearing a group of grown men be unable to stand by their own convictions and make their own, original contributions to the debate.

[@gandheeznuts4893]

I actually thought Norm did ok in this debate considering he was debating over 17 different people at once

[@mroctober3583]

😂 Norm looked legit senile

[@Mogadypopz]

@@mroctober3583 to a baby maybe

[@TheJReZone]

​@@mroctober3583Obviously you haven't watched him enough. Very intelligent ane articulate.

[@mroctober3583]

@@TheJReZone I've never seen a debate with him that was calm, collected and articulate unless he's on a channel that heavily agrees with him. The fact he kept dodging questions with filibuster ad homs in a 5hr debate that should have been 3hrs but Norm had to move at the speed of snail to hog all the time and even shout over everyone when it was their turn to talk, he was horrendous.

[@TheJReZone]

@@mroctober3583 Norm debating rabbi shmuel on youtube proves you wrong. You obviously haven't watched enough of him and his interview on piers Morgan proves my point. Obviously you disagree with him so you can't accept the facts. Norm was obviously fed up with the child mind that destiny has. Ive watched 100s of norm and you couldn't be more wrong. Of course anyone will have some debates that dont go well.

[@TheTookster]

If one goes by this debate there would never be a peaceful conclusion to the whole saga.

[@chrisv.noire.6388]

Why the hell was Destiny even there? So he is now an Israeli/Palestine expert??? Come on Lex. Sheesh!

[@Marigold9288]

What happened before October 7th ?

[@rashidaquil5284]

No The world started on October 7

[@ezerma1]

Before thw Palestinian terrorism was continuing and also their refusal to accept the 2 states solution.

[@kennybachman35]

@@ezerma1what 2 state solution?

[@ezerma1]

@@kennybachman35 What do you mean what??

[@kennybachman35]

@@ezerma1 when did Israel ever adhere to a 2 state solution? It’s a simple question. The answer is never.

[@mattdurnez7371]

If Norm doesn't read things from "those machines " does someone print up documents from "those machines" and mail them to him so he can read the documents 7-14 days later via mail?

[@harkyo]

No, you dummy.

[@Pucnchii]

Right this old fuck bring up stats that befit him but the moment they use it against him it’s all bullshit 😂😂😂

[@DMx4839]

You can’t come with an emotional crutch on your shoulder, talk like a Harley Davidson, and expect to be respected. Mr. Wikipedia just went on and on. Selective morality is a bitch! Mouin Rabbani is a legend.

[@attilabeats]

💯

[@louiscarlet3479]

Literally said ‘take down Gaza.’ How is that not genocidal intent???

[@guythetechguy]

Lots of people said different things in the heat of the moment after the crime against humanity that was Oct 7th. Instead of litigating every single instance of being human you need to understand that the IDF is a professional military and Israelis as a whole are not barbarians. Soldiers can refuse illegal orders. There are legal departments that check the actions of the IDF against international law and the government is subject to the law as well as enforced by the Supreme Court (which is still independent). Israel's actions, like asking population to evacuate, giving warnings, etc. as a whole are beyond what you'd find other armies doing. Look at what Russia did to Mariupol or what the coalition did in Mosul or other ISIS strongholds, how the US waged its wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and you won't see a single case of civilians being warned.

[@yakinthebox]

Its not even possible to call these genocidal, as they happened mere days after the oct 7 massacare.. its purely appealing to the people and their emotions. Start using your brain, please.

[@mrs8768]

@@guythetechguy oh pls. The IDF is the same army that shoots children in the head with snipers, takes pleasure in bombing civilian infrastructure, kills hungry civilians who want food. There is countless evidence of war crimes.

[@gg_rider]

It's not. It's not the same as "slaughter every resident". However, Hamas is at least 3x more popular than Joe Biden, AFTER the genocidal attacks on helpless Jews minding their own business, and naively hiring Palestinians to give them a much higher income than they could have earned staying in Gaza. Don't forget the greenhouses and other economic infrastructure for Palestinian citizens that Hamas destroyed. One US Marines unofficial slogan was "kill them all and let God sort them out", but that was never official US military policy in any sense. It was HOO-RAH policy.

[@nhlsens3880]

Destiny explained it... defeat russia does not mean to kill all russians or to defeat all russians. clearly it means to defeat the russian military which is attacking Ukraine. After reading the quotes myself they are alarmingly misquoted and weak evidence of intent. Destiny is right in the fact that he shows how the way they are misrepresented is really criminal.

[@grospipo20]

Destiny brought and ipad and wikipedia to a knowledge debate lol. I would hope that U.S. foreign policy is not based on what is written on wikipedia

[@jugz9130]

It was not only Wikipedia tho, he provided the correct sources of information

[@grospipo20]

@@jugz9130 lol he got that UN link from wikipedia. I think Destiny like most of us americans need to shut up on this issue and listen to both sides.

[@samlee3039]

No. He had an app called Obsidian open, on which he had made notes for the debate, not Wikipedia.

[@grospipo20]

@@samlee3039, you might want to watch the entire five-hour video. Destiny basically said he read Wikipedia to prepare for this(Obsidean is just his notes that were taken from Wikipedia), whereas the other three guys went into details on books and memoirs from people who actually lived the events.

[@samlee3039]

@@grospipo20 why are you lying bro? Where exactly did Destiny "basically say he read Wikipedia to prepare for this debate"? Destiny literally read all the primary sources being talked about here, in full LIVE on stream. You could go watch his streams over months where he literally does 4-8 hrs of research including the primary sources being discussed here. Also, you understand that even if that was the case, that he only read Wikipedia, Reading Wikipedia =/= You're wrong about everything. Whether or not you read something on Wikipedia is irrelevant. What is relevant is, is that thing is accurate or not. And that doesn't depend on whether you read it on Wikipedia. So stop this weird " he read only Wikipedia" and tell us instances where he was wrong.

[@locobass]

this finally shows how Finkelstein is Full of Fantazy shit

[@Aurora-light01]

Also if this is a genocide, why are the other boarder countries not getting involved and why are none of those countries taking the civilian Palestinians? Why are the boarder countries refusing to get involved in this?

[@EJ-ky9ns]

You brought a KZbinr to talk with academics?!

[@ITSBurgerPT]

im pretty sure norm is also an academic buddy

[@EJ-ky9ns]

I didn’t mean Norm, I mean that clown fast talker.

[@Vendettaavenger]

@@EJ-ky9nshe’s trolling

[@ITSBurgerPT]

@@Vendettaavenger :tf: 🎣

[@just4music687]

Exactly, so dumb! I was wondering why, seems like it's for views I guess.

[@tallwaters9708]

Is Destiny playing a computer game or something?

[@chiquitafeldberg8259]

He has adha so he fidgets a lot

[@KSN30]

All of what he "knows" is written in recently updated official documents posted online.

[@SHOTTuINdFACE]

He's googling

[@camdenritter7652]

He's adjusting his plug settings to make sure he is enjoying himself

[@carms7758]

He's probably tweeking

[@user-cc7pv9om7l]

Omg Norman such a great human being - thank you from the bottom of my heart! You make me believe in humanity 🕊️

[@SRBOMBONICA86]

You will never see a Muslim fight for non Muslims like that ,you are selfish people

[@blueberrymcphuckerson9821]

Almost 1hr and 18m this clip? Might as well just go straight to watching the whole podcast episode.

[@chiquitafeldberg8259]

It was over 4hrs

[@blueberrymcphuckerson9821]

@@chiquitafeldberg8259 Yeah, it's like almost 4hrs. Still, if you're gonna commit an hour to watching a debate you might as well watch the whole thing.

[@Shadowbanned4Lyfe]

@@blueberrymcphuckerson9821why? Just debating the history instead of what needs to happen today not yesterday.

[@Southforthewinter]

@@Shadowbanned4Lyfeyou have to agree on what happened yesterday and why etc to decide what happens tomorrow with the most accurate level of justice you can. It’s actually a very basic concept and for you to even suggest otherwise is concerning. Makes me wonder how many ppl think the past doesn’t matter

[@principarmer5430]

You should watch this clip and if you find it interesting then go and watch full episode 🧐

[@matthewatdefiantlegends7629]

If you won’t admit when you’re wrong, you’re being malicious. Listen to the side that will admit and concede points.

[@itsjustdamian]

Its amazing to see this contrast of destiny using a tablet to keep notes and to find things faster and then norman slowly trying to find a page in a book.. and then they call destiny the idiot. He couldve found whichever quote he was looking for in seconds with a tablet, but he believes books are better even though you can put millions of books onto a tablet.. and people still believe he is the smarter one. Mind blowing.

[@varun009]

Borelli is a guys name.

[@davem6749]

Destiny is a strippers name.

[@blackdynamite_5470]

it's a very genderbendername

[@mohammadmousavi1]

"Destiny is a political livestreamer" 🤣🤣 ... I can't believe this .. this podcast used to be an intellectual podcast ... Destiny has a place and it certainly is not here in this debate..

[@rileydumpy8316]

Destiny has taken more care to get information worth a shit.. norm is completely ruining any normal conversation you could have w a "pro Palestine" person. Even tho every single person at the table is pro palestinian.. some of them just arent commies

[@adrianomfg]

Destiny was googling this ENTIRE debate 😂 completely outclassed here

[@karlawson]

Norm lost any respect I would have had for him when he resorted to name calling and childish behavior. For the less educated and uninformed like myself, he lost his credibility, thereby he should feel shameful for losing people who may have been faithful to or even moved to his side. Civil discourse and cordiality is so important with such volatile topics in my opinion. I praise his debate partner for being so level-headed. If you are in the business of educating what good does it do to insult the viewer?