LGBTQ Controversy In Gaming

[@user-zr2pz8rr2l]

Imagining my sexuality being politicized at every turn. Being gay has to suck.

[@eko9554]

If I make lgbt characters, I want to make the public realize that being lgbt isn’t political.

[@laraprisma6381]

@@eko9554 same! Being LGBT is normal, like, gay couples are the same thing as straight couples in my opinion, they love each other, they adore each other, they can be hypersexual or not, it depends on the relationship, but overall it's the same as in straight relationships! I'm asexual myself and I just want to see people in this community seen as normal, because we may be different but in the end we're just people. We make mistakes, we act selfishly, we cry, we love each other, it's all normal!

[@eko9554]

@@laraprisma6381 Its weird to see comments on IG and YT shorts where you see kids being homophobic. Weird how in the 2010s, there was an ongoing support towards the lgbt community. Like what happened? Other than the rise of conservatism, anti woke/sjw resurgence, and the andrew tate and sigma males era starting.

[@Faus4us_Official]

Thank you! I'm trans and just saying that is apparently a politically motivated statement.

[@ThatFont]

@@eko9554It started in 2016 when Trump was voted in, then COVID radicalized every side of the political spectrum.

[@anominon]

Everyone knows Birdo is trans... but no one talks about Yoshi being he/him but laying eggs.

[@Beetroo3]

I just talked about this yesterday in Mario party about how wario keeps being sexist and steals from me daisy but I remembered my friend playing Yoshi a character that can lay eggs and eggs that can hatch Yoshi's. btw is Yoshi's gender always stated

[@anominon]

@@Beetroo3 I... huh, y'know, I don't know about the games themselves but he's always "he" in the manuals.

[@DanialTarki]

I mean, male humans can lactate…

[@Chopscrewyyy]

​@@DanialTarkibut they don't have eggs like female humans

[@Salithin]

mpreg

[@reysinx3345]

The Vivian one will forever be funny specifically because of how a single line of dialogue made people that mad. People who genuinely think there’s a “woke virus” are quick to call queer people sensitive, despite literally losing their minds over a single line of dialogue that implies a character is trans in a jrpg with thousands of pages of text

[@vitalost9935]

It's two lines of dialogue, one more explicit than the other, but yeah.

[@king_poyo64]

One that came out on the Gamecube at that.

[@supermaximglitchy1]

Hypocrisy is… unavoidable

[@user-ly1ko6be9t]

You guys rubbed it in our face but aight

[@user-ly1ko6be9t]

Also ur losing ur minds over the gop all the time did you ever see the lady who threw a toddler tantrum when trump got elected? Now it’s the entire world and ppl are threatening suicide which is crazy

[@corey5613]

My favorite thing in Mario is that you CAN’T deadname Vivian. You don’t even know her deadname. It’s easier for everyone if you call her by Vivian and use she/her pronouns because that’s what you are introduced to. Nintendo is very brave for including her gender identity in the remake.

[@OOFUS4103]

EXACTLY! So many transphobes make up the excuse “I use whatever pronouns fit with your looks”, but they still call Vivian he/him despite her being introduced as she/her. This just proves that the transphobes are “making mistakes”, they’re actively going out of their way to disrespect others.

[@cosmicspacething3474]

I think that’s because she wasn’t trans in the original, but still cool I guess

[@GoldolorTheKartKid]

if I remember correctly she was in the Japanese version but not the English for English version

[@dragonslayer7724]

@@GoldolorTheKartKidI’ve heard people say that the proof of Vivian being trans in the original was a mistranslation but I don’t speak Japanese. I don’t personally agree with the LGBT+ way of life but I’m happy that Paper Mario is back.

[@breadloaf1840]

​@@GoldolorTheKartKid some other version too I forgot which though

[@keegandaurity304]

I find it interesting (albeit good) that the whole “pRoNoUnS wOkE???!?!” trite didn’t come up regarding Shovel Knight, a game that allows you to freely choose whether a character exhibits a masc or fem design, whether they use masc fem or gender-nonconforming pronouns, and allows you to make the main character and love interest the same gender. I guess it’s because it’s an indie game and has a much smaller community, but I’m still just glad it exists

[@somik-i3x]

Plus it's old for the grifter standard. They only talk about big games to try to milk it for attention.

[@headphonesaxolotl]

Probably part of it is that it's just a cosmetic thing, every character canonically has a set gender and corresponding design but you can just do whatever. I think the only character I used body swap on was Propeller Knight.

[@danielcunha3863]

It's because they noe shovel knight is sucha peak game that there is no point in getting mad over it😅

[@dabluepittoo-aqua4213]

Honestly I just wish being LGBTQ+ wasn't considered "political". We're not politics, we're people. Why should our identities be controlled by others? My own mother for instance is a bit worried about my status as a trans woman, not because she's transphobic (her side of the family is quite open minded), but because she doesn't want transphobes to hurt me or (worse) murder me. Heck, my own Dad's a transphobe so I'm still closeted to him. The fact that we have to live in fear of the law and what other people might do for things that aren't even in our control is terrifying. Change is scary, I get that. But for bigots to hurt others just because they don't understand things is even worse. But. . .one day things will change. One day the future will be brighter as the old folks lose power and the younger generations who better understand minorities gain power. I have hope things will be alright. And at the very least, more people are more educated now more than ever before in human history. There's always hope.

[@somerandomguy-3102]

the only reason it's political is since some people (who also call lgbtq+ people "snowflakes") will start crying about lgbtq+ inclusion in any form of media cus theyre bigots

[@TheMarshmallowMushroom]

for the same reason that feminism and equality talk is seen as political. if they're not cishet allo white men, their very existence is political in the eyes of society

[@Almbriso]

Bigots just see anything they dont like as a political opposition ,because they want to pretend like their not fighting living breathing people but some "ideology" boogeyman they made up.

[@goose_president5504]

Yeah it's not political it's just a aspect of human life

[@FNF-d5g]

I hope everyone(Including society) watch your comment. Your comment is so great!

[@Sharp22CatFish]

Funny purple trans ghost.🏳️‍⚧️

[@MelanyMiku]

i love funny purple trans ghost more than i am comfortable admitting. i love her so much

[@Sharp22CatFish]

@@MelanyMiku Me too.

[@Mr.scooter-le8yo]

Actually it's a shadow but close enough.

[@Sharp22CatFish]

@@Mr.scooter-le8yo too late I've already done this over hundreds of posts.

[@king_poyo64]

Almost as good as funny pink trans bird/dinosaur/???.

[@almondthefurret6818]

The star field controversy will forever be funny to me because….pronouns are a basic concept in language. Didn’t you learn these in first/second grade???

[@Idkpleasejustletmechangeit]

Fucking pronouns! Fucking gender ambiguity!

[@Wroar2020s]

Yes, but everything changed when they discover the left vs right political discourse brainrot

[@Idkpleasejustletmechangeit]

@@SaberSin-mu4kt people that create neopronouns know that pronouns are a normal part of the language, but they don't think that any of the ones in their language quite fit them, so they make up new ones. Making up new words (such as pronouns) is a nornal part of language.

[@almondthefurret6818]

@@SaberSin-mu4kt neopronouns are epic and based

[@Cubeytheawesome]

@@Wroar2020sI’d say politics is more dangerous to the brain than skibidi toilet or that singing nugget.

[@laraprisma6381]

Even before I knew about Vivian being trans, the moment I laid eyes on her, I loved her design! She's really cute, and I don't know anything about the game other than her existence!

[@MangoMagica]

Yeah I think she’s gorgeous and her relationship with Kanji is so cute. I love her

[@avery-u1w]

you should play ttyd

[@pieofchart]

I am very gay for this videogame ghost woman

[@questionmarkquestionmarkques]

@@pieofchart not a ghost

[@pieofchart]

@@questionmarkquestionmarkques I've failed

[@tigerbear5845]

8:02 Interesting thing about the infamous “angry starfield pronouns guy.” He isn’t just mad that Starfield has a pronoun option; it’s actually far more stupid. Dead Domain made a video about this, but this character in the game was basically an X-23-style clone. (A clone of a man who’s a woman.) There was nothing to suggest the character was trans; in fact, her dialogue mentioned multiple downers for the clone, so the man she was cloned from would technically just be her father genetically. However *_just_* because she "came out as a clone," the idiot thought that she was a trans woman and proceeded to throw a tantrum because he hallucinated a non-existent trans woman to get offended at. I mean, it still would be horrible if his tantrum was over an actual trans woman in the game, but seriously, “transphobe hating trans woman so much that he hallucinated a non-existent trans woman to get offended at” is just so mockable.

[@TheGreatBackUpVIDEOS]

It took me a couple goes reading that to understand...so basically, she's just a dude's daughter, but she said clone because she's a test tube baby, and because she said clone instead of child, he lost it?

[@tigerbear5845]

@@TheGreatBackUpVIDEOS She said that she was "A clone, of a man" and was a part of some, like, program to clone historical military people (with her being cloned from some admiral) but she also said he was only the main "donor" (which is why I used the more "in a genetic sense" analogy as combining DNA from two or more people makes you technically their genetic daughter.) This is why I used the X-23 Clone comparison as it's the same situation. (A female clone of Wolverine) But because she "came out as a clone" the dude lost it and started saying a bunch of transphobic crap even though *_she's not even trans and he hallucinated a non-existent trans woman to get offended at._* Again, the Dead Domain likely explains it better as they watch the clip.

[@matthewrowlett1564]

Reminds me of the outcry about the teasers and trailers for the new Fable. Yes, they used someone Who happens to be transgender, as the baseline for the model... And these freaks Are STILL bitching about it. Stupid transphobes.

[@8bitjoystick]

I am sort of suprised that more people are not making a big deal out of the trans options in Cyberpunk 2077. I played through Cyberpunk as a Corpo trans woman and you can pick the body features that you want including what's below the belt AND NOT BLURRED OUT, but the pronouns you pick determine determine what gender the other charactors refer to you as. BTW. Judy dates trans women AND CIS women. My only regret is spending all my skill points on sword based combat, that makes you basically invincible.

[@amazingspiderlad]

because most newer games with character customisation allow you to be trans. It's not the same as having a trans character, true representation isn't optional.

[@8bitjoystick]

@@amazingspiderlad well it took a damn long time to get there. I make KZbin videos about retro video games and you can literally count the number of positive representation of anything queer on your fingers

[@ThatFont]

@@amazingspiderladI agree. Queer content is almost always optional/avoidable/brief and it really takes away from the “this game is accepting” message.

[@amazingspiderlad]

@@8bitjoystick So? Why does that mean we should just shut up and accept the bare minimum?

[@tranidite]

​@@amazingspiderladNo just saying it took ages to get to a decent point in acceptance. It's not controversial to note that the past was less accepting

[@NoBrainer7]

as an ally of the LGBTQIA+ community, i am baffled that people get angry at stuff like a character being gay or trans, they must be miserable, as why would anybody be so hateful if they are happy with their life?

[@Pangloss6413]

I get baffled that anybody gets this irrationally angry for any number of fucked up, cockamamie reasons and so Greeks hate Turks and Israelis hate Arabs and Catholic Irish hate Protestant Irish and vice versa in each instance and so on

[@robertdemoine5066]

because so far, all the gay and trans characters have been nothing but tokens. there's probably more trans people in video games than in real life. Devs these days suck their own cocks so hard for putting queers into their games that they actually forget the rest of it is horseshit. It also breaks immersion to see a queer character in a setting where they probably would've been killed for being gay.

[@Cubeytheawesome]

I’m baffled alone by how people are upset at a basic part of the English language.

[@QueerSweetness]

True, and also thank you so much for your allyship. ❤😊

[@NoBrainer7]

@@QueerSweetness no problem

[@Squiddoboii]

For Tomodachi Life, A modder who tried to add bisexuality got burnt out on making it due to how many things were made are reliant on the Miis being straight.

[@AryaPlus]

That sucks

[@GabyyRose]

That's so fucking insane like how much do you have to hard code your game to make impossible to switch gender attraction ??? Like how hard is it to code heterosexual relationships like : If Gender_A =/= Gender_B : date_ok_function() and then remove this gates of this piece of coding ???? Genuinly baffled...

[@Squiddoboii]

@@GabyyRose my guess is there was A LOT of code based on heterosexual relationships. Like _A LOT_ of code Tomodachi Life is a pretty big game in terms of how much code there is.

[@T0B3573R]

@@Squiddoboii But the code for each Mii is the same, except they are either A or B when it comes to gender settings, essentially. If you are A you are referred to as He/Him and if you are B you are referred to as She/Her, and each role can only be performed by A or B respectively. So, why don’t we just eliminate the B and A system all together and have the roles of A and B be performed by either? 50/50?

[@samwisegamgee6532]

9:25 that shows how limited the worldview of these devs is. Some facial hair on an otherwise female looking person does not necessarily mean they are a trans woman. They can be an intersex person, they can be a cis woman with natural dense level of hair , they can be struggling with health issues causing local growth of hair… and probably some other situations I can’t think about for the moment. Let’s make it simple : it is impossible to classify human beings in 2 boxes called men and women. First there are people who don’t fit in any of those boxes, either for sex and gender. Second, there is no trait you can find in every man and no non man person, the same goes for women. The only simple way to know which box someone fits in is to ask them. And they can even fit in a box unique to them or in no box at all. The simple way to handle the situation is to accept that. And don’t tell me it is difficult. When you meet someone new, you certainly ask for their individual name. And you don’t presume of this name based on their appearance. And you can handle the existence of many different names. Just do the same with gender.

[@omegadadragon]

Reminds me of the bearded lady from the Greatest Showman.

[@crosseyedcat1183]

I used to develop games as a hobby and I'm a programmer. It would be for me, very odd for a developer to say that adding same sex relationships is difficult. Here's why. All the Miis should use the same code because they should all be equivalent in behavior. All Miis can do the same things and have the same things happen to them. All Miis have the same properties. Since all Miis are capable of entering a relationship with the opposite sex, this would mean that each Mii would need to have some internal flag (something like isInRelationship) which would either be "true" or "false" and possibly another data field to keep track of which Mii this particular Mii is in a relationship with. However, note the lack of symmetry here. While all Miis can do the same things, the relationship action has a constraint: the relationship game action can only happen between 2 Miis if they have the opposite sex. This necessarily means for this very specific kind of action and possibly for no other actions (I don't know about the game but the idea of having other gender specific actions seems like a developer pain in the ass), the game has to check the gender field of the Mii. Roughly it would look like this: 1. Game checks to see if you want two Miis to enter a relationship. 2. Game checks the gender of the Miis. 3. Game sets the relationship flag for the Miis and sets some internal data in each Mii so they know the other Mii in the relationship. Notice that to "add" same sex relationships, all you have to do is delete the check for the gender. That's right. Having opposite sex relationships necessitates that the game checks the gender of the Mii before they enter a relationship. If you added the ability to have both same sex and opposite sex relationships, the game would not need to check this. So in order to add same sex relationships the programmers would need to.... delete some code. So to summarize, in order to enforce heterosexuality between the Miis, the developers necessarily need to add more code than they would have needed to if they didn't. In particular, the developers would have needed to add code that enforces heterosexuality.

[@Fangirl-Nerd12]

Not to mention that married miis can have a baby put that same sex marriage Mii you used the Mii maker or something

[@ThatFont]

It’s much more difficult to make characters anything other than “player-sexual” unless you’re dealing with characters with different heights

[@crosseyedcat1183]

@@Fangirl-Nerd12 Personally, as a developer, I think Miis having a gender option is pointless. The only thing the gender option does is allow for female Miis to wear a dress (I forget whether or not Nintendo explicitly enforced that girl Miis had to wear dresses but yikes). I could for example make a "male" Mii look like a girl by giving them feminine customization options. Essentially gender = dress on a Mii. It seems so weird why that can't just be a customization, and if it is, it makes very little sense for gender to be a field at all.

[@jonal5126]

​@@crosseyedcat1183 the Mii can wear the clothes of their opposite gender but they won't react happy. They won't quit the clothes if they don't want too. I think the gender is just so the game can use she/her or he/him on the mii. At least in Miitopia they let you same sex relationships in the game

[@skillfulbones6178]

I think the difficulties are if there's scripted dialogue and scenes that are dependent on the gender of the character to act out. All animations that are assigned depending on gender, i bet they coded animations to gender so that idol movements, walking, curtain dancing, to match a gender, even dialogue between Miis, if a man tried to date a man i bet the game would either crash, or display error text. Or it was hard coded in the game because Japan isn't as kind to queer representation.

[@noireisbest6786]

The Vivian debates are pretty funny but also shows that people are not understanding even a basic Mario plotline. Which I shouldn't be too surprised, there's a lot of adults who don't understand Steven Universe too.

[@DaGhostToastRoast]

Vivian is interesting. I know the game says she has the body of a boy but imo I think it makes more sense she is completely non binary. Like she’s a shadow being she can morph into what she wants. Just a headcanon.

[@Cubeytheawesome]

Well, Steven is different. Why would you let people who killed millions (the diamonds) go free without consequences?

[@KrimsonKattYT]

​@@DaGhostToastRoastYeah she's a shadow blob who can probally shape shift.

[@ukkisragee9983]

​@@Cubeytheawesomean eye for an eye makes the world go blind.

[@noireisbest6786]

@@Cubeytheawesome Except for the fact that the Diamonds didn't get off completely scott-free, they do have to work towards undoing the damage they did. And outside of that, this is a show that wears it's love of anime on it's sleeve especially shows like Dragon Ball another show where you can have a violent killer become a friend through compassion. I don't think the average child is going to walk away from the show thinking they should allow war criminals to be let off the hook, society at large already did the dirty work even before Sugar was born.

[@thegreatandalmightymartyo]

The republicans probably never will get tired of talking about the lgbtq+ community this way. The literal three conversations my dad opts to talk about at any point in time are quite literally “feminists are trying to take rights away from men”, “do better in college” and “Hungary” and he’s republican.

[@RapidProbably]

As a trans person Naoto is more like Mulan rather than being a trans person. Also good video!

[@H0pelessSapphic]

To be fair, the antisemitism in Harry Potter was already there. I think the reason it came up again was that they made the goblins the villans and expanded the antisematism that they represented... 😢

[@Slushea]

WE need a counter of every time a character says they are trans, but people deny it

[@justed8771]

"beldam speech bubble"

[@Slushea]

@@justed8771 I mean as in number counter for how many times...

[@darsterz]

caps at 3 per game, you won't have much

[@C00L_n3rd]

Omg a bi girl with blue hair and pronouns is woke (I’m gay don’t take this seriously)

[@autism-chan2517]

Hiiii! Actual Persona fan here to make a comment on what I think of the whole Naoto gender thing. I just recently finished Persona 4 Golden and my opinion on Naoto's gender is that I don't think she's actually trans. The whole reason behind her presenting as male in the first place was because of the misogyny she experienced by the police force and not being taken seriously as an ace detective because of her gender and age. Throughout the rest of the game we see her start to progressively accept her femininity. In her Christmas event, she tries on the school's girls outfit and seems relatively happy in it. By the epilogue she appears to have fully embraced her true self and goes for a more feminine look. Also Kanji is bi. Like you said, he expresses interest in Naoto even before the big twist that she was a girl the whole time. It's also explored in his social link about his secret interest in knitting and how he tries to hide it because he was bullied for it since it was considered a feminine hobby. I've seen people say that him having a more "normal" look by the epilogue makes it appear that he became normal as a result and left behind his homosexual tendencies. I strongly disagree and I feel that the people who say that missed the entire point of the game. The only complaint I have about Kanji is that his shadow comes off as a bit stereotypical of a gay man, but at the same time, it's supposed to represent the side of himself he represses so it'd make sense that he'd see this side of himself as stereotypical.

[@StoryTeller796]

The fact that Kanji did not become his shadow nor became the opposite of his shadow should be a point in favor of his shadow being written how it is. In my opinion, just keep that part the same just to show that homophobia back then was so widespread to the point where Kanji had internalized it and needed to fight it.

[@albedougnut]

The issue with Naoto's character is not them not being trans per se. It has to do with the numerous transphobic and misogynistic microaggressions found throughout the game. Issues include: -Vilification of GRS. -Falling into dog whistles that an AFAB person is confused about their gender due to misogyny (this one is likely not deliberate, though the parallel is there). -The game automatically switching to she/her pronouns without addressing whether or not Naoto was comfortable with the change. -Dismissal of their feelings of wishing to have been born male by stating "I’m glad you’re a girl" as the basis for romancing them, rather than accepting their feelings. -Naoto being pressured into exhibiting femininity around the Christmas event by the protagonist. -The assumption that they need to exhibit femininity in the first place, when many cis women are gender nonconforming. There is also the fact that Naoto's shadow itself very explicitly wanted to become male, where the shadow is supposed to represent the person's truest desires. This seems to contradict the idea that Naoto really accepts themselves as a woman, and given the frequent expression of dissatisfaction with their assigned sex throughout the game, it is extremely easy to interpret them as being trans-coded. This is alongside the fact that they frequently express discomfort over their body, such as with the hot spring scene, and the scene where they state that they wish they had been born male. The reason why a lot of queer players (and especially trans men like myself) critique the depiction of Naoto is because we ultimately want to see Atlus do better. There is nothing wrong with addressing sexism and misogyny that women experience in the workplace. Unfortunately, they ended up not only reinforcing certain sexist expectations for women, but they also strongly coded Naoto as being trans (whether they meant to or not) before ripping the rug out. We like the Persona games, and we want them to improve on their representation to avoid mistakes like these in the future. We do not do it because we hate the games but because we love them but do not want to see content that turns us away from it.

[@TheOblivionMan]

Personally, I've always felt Kanji's whole story was more about toxic masculinity than anything to do with sexuality. He has a driving goal of "Be A Man", but nothing in his life to really guide him as to what a healthy expression of that goal is, beyond what he'd be getting from popular media. Stemming out from that, his Shadow is less about any internalized homophobia and more a result of the image he'd be getting from those same sources of what a "Failed Man" is.

[@SorarikoMotone]

@@TheOblivionMan tbf, it does have to do with sexuality, but more in a way of how person is perceived by others (aka the "oh you do x/y/z? lmao are you what, a 'insert a word that would be usually used to belittle a man's masculinity in a way that says that he's *not manly enough*'") rather than the situation being caused BY sexuality of a person being a thing, which is the main theme for all the shadows. Instead of being 1:1 with person's thoughts - they are thoughts of people, flanderized and sent to the extreme, much like news on tv and internet would.

[@SorarikoMotone]

@@albedougnut it seems then that a lot of people missed the point of shadows, then. Shadows arent supposed to be a 100% representation of a given person, but what OTHERS perceive of that person, after the game of a broken telephone, flanderized and brought to the extreme, much like how outrage over tv and internet news are. It's also valid to see certain trans-codeness, even if unintended - because a lot of anti-trans bigotry ends up being also straight up misogyny as well. Both almost always go hand in hand, even irl.

[@somerandomguy-3102]

bigots calling people snowflakes then proceeding to cry on twitter about a pronoun selection box is so funny to me

[@eko9554]

Like when lgbt characters were in strange world or Baymax.

[@zeratir7873]

@@frishter possibly even far right.

[@Inksanity]

I think it should also be mentioned that Bridget's pin changed from a ♂️ to a ⚦ symbol as of Strive It's also worth noting how Testament is explicitly agender. They primarily use they/them, though their theme song does use gendered pronouns--just _never_ the same one twice in a row. It is _constantly_ alternating between she/her/herself and he/him/himself.

[@danieltaylor4185]

On the note of Guilty Gear, I'm honestly surprised that, if there was a controversy about Testament being nonbinary, it didn't make enough of a splash for me to have heard about it, or it died off so quickly that it's almost impossible to find now. Maybe there was one, but it just got so overshadowed by the Bridget controversy that it just kind of fizzled out. I just know from experience, a lot of people don't respond well when they ask you a question they think only has 2 answers, only for you to answer either, "Neither," or, "Not applicable." I'm not nonbinary myself, but as someone who's asexual, I dread having another conversation with someone where they ask my orientation, and for whatever reason, I have to explain to them what that means and assure them that I'm not sick, or disabled, or even miserable, as they assume I would be.

[@nepoleon92]

The gaming lgbtq+ thing that pissed me off the most was Bridget not canonically being my wife.

[@Symmetry_Obsessed_Freak]

As a possibly trans Persona fan, I’m very glad they changed the beach scene in Persona 3 for the re-release. It’s unfortunate that it was there to begin with, but I really appreciate that they went in and changed it

[@StopMotion-Dann]

the problem with the hogwarts controversy is that it made people who like harry potter for harry potter and not J.K rowling feel like they couldnt enjoy theyre media because its creator was a transphobe and as you mentioned it also led to lots of people getting harrassed for merely saying that they enjoyed hogwarts legacy even i own a copy of the game its fun af but that dosnt mean we like jk rowling. TLDR: Seperate art from Artist

[@TTRPGSarvis]

I'm surprised the Mass Effect controversy didn't make the list. Because, while not exclusively about LGBTQ+ sexual content, the fact that a Female Commander Shepard could romance a Female-Presenting Single-Sex alien was absolutely a big part of the conservative media freakout the game created.

[@MelanyMiku]

You have absolutely no idea how irrationally upsetting this comment was to read /lh I had actually included Mass effect in my initial notes for this video. Idk how, but somehow while working on it I must have forgotten to utilize or missed over the mass effect part of my notes?? Idk Point being, I has actually planned to talk about Mass Effect, I was just an idiot ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

[@TTRPGSarvis]

@@MelanyMiku Ah, sorry about that. I just remember it blowing up so much that the church I used to go to felt the need to talk to the youth groups about "Corrupting Video Games" and specifically mentioning Mass Effect.

[@MelanyMiku]

@TTRPGSarvis oh don’t be sorry!!! It’s honestly more amusing to be rn that I somehow forgot until the moment somebody else realized it wayyyy after it was rendered and uploaded. ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

[@wondertyzipp8260]

In addition to the Liara controversy, in ME1 you were originally supposed to be able to romance Kaidan Alenko when playing as Male Commander Shepard. However due to backlash, (because apparently a wlw romance was acceptable to the higher ups at the studio but a mlm romance was just crossing the line 🤦) their romance was not included in the game. Interestingly though, they did keep the voicelines recorded for Male Shep and Kaidans romance in the game files. So PC Modders have actually made a mod now which allows you to romance Kaidan as Male Shepard. It works pretty well aside from the game mixing up Shepards pronouns. 😂

[@ExtremeWreck]

@@wondertyzipp8260 "because apparently a wlw romance was acceptable to the higher ups at the studio but a mlm romance was just crossing the line" That's actually how it is a lot of the time. It's that male gaze appeal.

[@gameyfirebro9645]

Vivian's my fave trans goober. So goobery and precious. And while Birdo isn't as appealing to me, she's still valid and Yoshi is a pretty amazing LGBTQ ally, especially since he's outright dating Birdo.

[@blasphemyincarnate6498]

@gameyfirebro *Birdetta

[@laraprisma6381]

Yeah, Naoto is not trans and her story is about sexism in the workplace. I've seen a lot of people in the Persona community being super defensive about her being a trans kid, and sometimes it feels like they've never played the game and just heard about it from other people.

[@tinaherr3856]

Yeah, it is more of a Mulan situation than being trans

[@donovanlocust1106]

​@tinaherr3856 but people want to just project bullshit :/

[@aquatic_mar]

i mean, the way they handle "sexism in the workplace" is really bad considering both of naoto's parent were detectives. it appears more of a terf/transphobe thing (as in trans men are just confused women who want to escape misogyny) also, after naoto's dungeon, he still wears the boy's school uniform and he's really uncomfortable at the beauty pageant, and while you could say that is he's just a cis girl who's not used to being femenine or naoto is a tomboy/butch woman, there is people that think of him as trans and that's not a bad thing. but you can't deny the whole "but a name doesn't change the truth. it doesn't let you cross the barrier between sexes" "i will never change from a woman to a man" is pretty transphobic. i'm open to debating about this topic as long if it's in a open and not hostile way.

[@tinaherr3856]

@@aquatic_mar I mean, the "sexism in the workplace" can still apply, even if their mother was a detective. By definition, it is experiencing sexism in the job you have. So Naoto wanting to avoid that is still justifiable. For the two quotes you put up, remember that Naoto was in a Mulan situation, not a trans situation. By that I mean they basically just wore boy clothes and didn't even change their name. A name wouldn't "cross the barrier between the sexes" if you didn't even change your name in the first place. Plus the "I will never change from a woman to a man" was meant to be Naoto not trying to be a gruff male detective like in the novels she idolized, but instead accept their true self. Which is kind of the theme of Persona 4.

[@donovanlocust1106]

@@aquatic_mar Naoto isn't trans. Stop making her trans. Cope

[@lolganrox_12katsu30nichi]

The whole “stop making my games political” thing will never not be funny to me

[@Snowmaninadesert]

especially sense you know these guys well scream about how good call of duty is.

[@chaoticcritters]

sims mentioned.... neuron activation. i love the sims. (not really controversy but fun fact! the earliest canon LGBTQ couple in the series to my knowledge was around 2004 in the urbz comix, and there's at least one (probably more!) canon trans character in the sims 4)

[@ThatFont]

Wait, who’s the canon trans character in Sims 4 and how have I apparently been living under a rock?

[@chaoticcritters]

@@ThatFont morgyn ember from sims 4 realm of magic is nonbinary! before the pronoun update it was a little up in the air if they were trans or intersex. but after the pronoun update came out, a patch was later added which clarified their pronouns are they/them! there might be more trans characters in sims 4 - I'm not overly familiar with the lore in that game as opposed to the older titles. the only other LGBTQ character i know of in TS4 is caleb vatore from vampires, who is implied bisexual from one of the trailers. but, there should be a section on the sims wiki about LGBTQ+ characters in the series!!

[@maif.7055]

@@ThatFont The new Growing Together pack introduced two canonically trans characters, Celeste Michaelson (trans woman) and Jay Robles (nonbinary). And Morgyn as the other person mentioned

[@GooglieHunter]

As somebody who talks about politics all the time, here's my one thing I have to say: LGBTQIA++ is NOT political, it is social and personal.

[@RedX03]

13:28 girl I’m not even trans and I fucking love Vivian

[@Doktario_Mystario]

5:25 Miitopia is rated 18+ in Russia because of this feature though (source: Thomas Game Docs (if i remember correctly))

[@hyunasgirlfriend]

im suprised that there was nothing from splatoon was mentioned; pearl and marina are somewhat implied to be in some kind of relationship (at least, its implied that marina is romantically attracted to pearl), but since it's not cannon, there's not a ton of controversy. there was also that whole thing with shiver's gender and if she was non-binary, and most recently the controversy with acht being reffered to as they/them in the main story and wiki page. im srry i had to bring splatoon into this im way too hyperfixated

[@someloser4180]

I’ll never get how people can spend time arguing over the sexuality or gender of a fictional character. Just view and perceive the character anyway you want, but don’t use it to shit on other people.

[@artCharles]

What's even dumber about the Starfield pronouns controversy is that I've seen at least a few people claim the game "forces" you to choose. Even though the pronouns it defaults to correspond to whether or not you pick the more masculine or feminine body type, meaning that, unless you want to use different pronouns, you don't need to interact with the option.

[@noireisbest6786]

Problem is that now pronouns have become "bad" in the minds of anti-woke people. To the point where all the screengrabs of "Jesus had no pronouns" posts on Twitter are impossible to tell from legit bigots and really funny satire. So for some people, it's never going to matter, pronouns are now for queer people and commies.

[@SaberSin-mu4kt]

So basically you're telling me the pronoun thing serves no particular purpose other than to just "exist"?

[@scrungler_boinbus]

​@@SaberSin-mu4kt no because someone might want to have a feminine body type and be referred to with masculine pronouns for example, how would it be useless? it's just more options for customization, i would think that's a good thing for a character customizator intending to have many options

[@SaberSin-mu4kt]

@@scrungler_boinbus No because that's still utterly pointless in every regard. The game doesn't even refer to you by your preferred pronouns, they literally added it in just because.

[@miigi-p4939]

​@@SaberSin-mu4ktproof of the latter is? Also again no its more customization to whoever want it This is like saying one hair option is useless cuz most people wont pick it

[@xgekozx3305]

Smth else about the sims conterversy that has always been finny to me is how in the character creator there are options for stuff like pronouns and sexual and romantic attraction. Even if the sim can get others or get pregnant. And while all these pissed off the usual grifters The one above all that will always be funny to me is them getting angry at the "can this sim pee standing up?" Like they took that seriously to a ridiculous extent as part of their usual "trans people have to use their asigned bathroom bs"

[@deathtales2100]

Vivian was my first instance of trans representation ever (because sbe was also trans in french on GC, albeit with less than stellar lamguage used for her). And I'll keep loving her for that

[@Voisin_Chemistry_Offical]

as a programmer, Nintendo is not lying but they arent telling the truth because of the way they would have to do it to avoid bugs, so its technically easy but it would have several bugs but they can probably work it out better than i could so i dont see why it would be an issue

[@benjaminstevens9376]

I’m not much of a Harry Potter fan, nor did I ever show any interest in playing Hogwarts Legacy, but I still remember the most iconic moment in the Wizarding World like it was yesterday: That time when Harry Potter himself shouted “METAMORPHOSIS ERADO!” and straight-up magically erased the concepts of homosexuality, transgenderness, non-binary gender, intersexuality, and asexuality from the minds of every person on the planet.

[@naluzoniro]

I haven't played Persona, but in general I'm a bit jaded with similar characters because it's the only narrative we ever get for tomboy or woman-in-man's-clothing type characters we EVER get, that they're only doing it for utilitarian purposes, and that doesn't really resonate with my experience as a trans guy. Hell, I was a skinny, tiny, shrimpy, artsy, timid kid, if I had tried to present more masculine back then, or say I was a boy, I'd have been MORE bullied probably.

[@GudetamaSit]

Naoto is a tricky one because she is obviously designed as a woman dressing as a man to avoid sexism in the police force, she's referred to with she/her after the reveal, and she even takes up more feminine clothes in the epilogue. The thing is, there's a lot of trans-coded stuff besides. Even after her sex is revealed to everyone, she still wears men's clothes and binds for most of the game. Not that presenting masc necessarily means you're not cis, but yeah. Her dungeon uses body operations as a theme, which is the main reason why her story can come off as unintentionally transphobic (the whole idea of 'irreversible damage' if you have surgeries to transition your gender). Well, that and a few weird Persona things (how the games sexualise teenagers and in this one how Naoto has multiple scenes where characters point out her breast size despite her being uncomfortable). Honestly, I see Naoto as transmasculine or nonbinary.

[@klaus.sfc01official30]

Before i watch i just want to state that i hate media that is like "LOOK WE HAVE A GAY/LESBIAN/TRANS (MAIN) CHARACTER. NOW BUY OUR PRODUCT" i like it more when people which are gay/lesbian/trans are added as normal (as in people that are actual people not just a stereotype) people or when in a main character role making being gay/lesbian/trans not their entire character and keeping it more in the background so it actually feels like they are represented as equal human beings and not a novelty. Just wanted to get that out of my head. If i in some way came of as insulting that wasn't my intent at all and is probably a side cause of me not being a native english speaker.

[@okbutwhy2749]

Y’all wanna know a funny thing about starfield, there was apparently a bug in the game that made it so that your character had to transition to be able to shoot guns.

[@king_poyo64]

Only a Bethesda game would have a glitch that weirdly specific.

[@eko9554]

“Everything just works” - Todd Howard

[@spencersholden]

8:38 a Star Wars KZbinr got super upset when Wookieepedia started adding a pronoun section to some bios. Fanwikis are known for including everything in the bios of characters so it was a literal nontroversy.

[@tristanalain9239]

Probably my favorite part about the Vivian stuff was the majority of the Mario community mocking and trolling the transphobes with the Beldam PNG in response. Just beautiful. Love how these transphobic people scream about respecting "the original vision of the author" all of a sudden start denying it the second a LGBTQ+ character is involved. Vivian, Bridget and Yamato (a character in One Piece is VERY clearly a transman) are examples of this.

[@vitalost9935]

That's how I feel about the "Paper Mario censored" outcry, because most of the censoring was done by the original English translation, meanwhile the remake removes some words like "floozy" the the original English translation used and adds back details like Hooktail's weakness being frogs or Vivian being herself

[@rainpooper7088]

@vitalost9935 They cry about censorship and respect for the original vision when insults are removed (some of which never even were in the original) and female characters no longer get sexually harassed in one random scene (when all other instances of it are retained) but as soon as an LGBT character gets uncensored, they cry woke propaganda. Honestly, even all of that aside the English translation of TTYD objectively needed work. Apparently it was the first time they translated a game outside of Japan and it therefore messed up a bunch of things that literally no other translation got wrong, some of which are really embarrassing like messing up obvious references to the first Paper Mario. Giving the dialogue an overhaul while they were at it just made sense. Not to mention it isn't even the first remake to change dialogue and references as far as Mario RPGs are concerned. The only reason people are pissy now is because it involves representation.

[@stormwind937]

The way the internet exploded after seeing the family photo at the end of Xenoblade Chronicles 3 was incredible.

[@amandaletcher1320]

Im happy we've come a long way with lgbtq representation in game's its sad that some people don't see that

[@laraprisma6381]

I remember that in the trailer for one of the scenes in The Sims 4 there is a scene of a teenager's room and on the wall there is a trans flag! The game also now gives you the option to choose your Sim's sexuality, they can be gay, bi, straight, ace and the classic pan (originally all Sims were pansexual), I remember seeing comments when the game also included the option to give pronouns to the sims, not too many negative ones to the point of becoming a controversy but like, the game is for 17+! The game has elements of death, violence, crazy options for sexual relationships, and can kill your sims! If anything, the game is at least for teens and older. The Sims franchise has always been progressive, and it's only become even more so now, regardless of the quality of the games. I'm honestly surprised that the top scars were the final straw for conservative game-haters!

[@laraprisma6381]

@@NateHuff24 Like, you can literally make a sim straight or gay if you want, it's part of the game to do it yourself in the game if you want (which is what I did, I even made my Sim be asexual like me)

[@NateHuff24]

@@laraprisma6381 OMG I am so sorry. I accidentally replied to your comment instead of the one I wanted. KZbin just glitched out on me. The comment was not meant for you. Apologies.

[@Maple.]

"We pledge that if we create a next installment in the Tomodachi series, we will strive to design a game-play experience from the ground up that is more inclusive, and better represents all players." Never makes another one

[@dogenjoyer2480]

Saw the notif for this as soon as it came out but i forgored about it, i really needed to watch this it made me smile and i really needed that ty

[@somebodyrandom27]

I'm surprised that Shovel Knight's Body Swap mode seems to have flown under the radar. It was originally concieved as a simple "gender swap" (appearance and pronouns) option, but the devs decided to let players choose the characters appearances and pronouns independently of each other.

[@SMCwasTaken]

This comment section is totally going to be peaceful and will have no warzones /s

[@azurastellav6564]

Trans Vtuber during the Hogwarts lesbian fiasco here. So many hate raids I turned off my new follower notification permanently.

[@MelanyMiku]

Jesus fucking Christ I’m so sorry to hear. I at least see where people are coming from when it’s a cis person (doesn’t mean it’s okay, obviously harassment is always bad) but when it’s somebody who’s literally trans in this situation.. doesn’t that LITERALLY defeat the fuckin purpose? Holy shit. :(

[@azurastellav6564]

@@MelanyMiku I wasn't playing the game, mind. It was used by transphobes as an excuse to attack us though. That said, thank you SO much for this video. Honestly, it helped remind me that we have more positive trans rep now

[@ThatFont]

I love these discussions. I’ve looked at the history of representation in games many times and always smile as I see the increase in representation. Unsurprisingly, the phobes are louder now more than ever since 2016 and COVID giving everyone time to completely polarize themselves politically.

[@TravistheDragon]

I find it funny that people act like Vivian was never trans in the first place despite the jp version of the original game confirming it. Now that it's in the English version, suddenly it's a problem. I just really don't understand people sometimes.

[@miraculousabridged2857]

hopefully that tomodachi life sequel gets announced soon, the trademark was renewed or something like that

[@GaetorCreation]

My friend played HL and one thing he specifically did was wait for the game to be cracked and then send the cracked versions to people who simply wanted to play it Honestly HL entire ordeal gets so much darker when you learn a little about the production of the game as well as looking a little closer on the story

[@Draven23]

in what way? I dislike some of the stuff I know about the actual game, but I haven't heard anything about the production

[@GaetorCreation]

@@Draven23 if i remember correctly one of the leads on the game were an ex. Anti-sjw youtuber with a history of antisemitism And if I remember (again) correctly the trans character in the files is refrences as "manthing" or something around those lines

[@hyperlinkblocked9225]

4:30 to make a system to select what gender a Mii is attracted to would take a little while but not to long in game development but they could just delete the line of code stopping a mii date a mii of the same gender.

[@AlmightyAlbatross]

Thank you for your research.I don't think I'd have the mental capacity to dig through so much toxicity. I'm glad there are both positives and negatives at least. I usually only ever hear about the negative stuff.

[@RedZeroX]

Personally, as much as I don't want to support a TERF, if I was a bigger Harry Potter fan, I'd still buy the game 'cause I enjoyed the franchise back in the day and don't want my fondness to be ruined by outside stuff (didn't buy it 'cause doesn't look like something I'd play). If ya feel like you can't buy it because you can't separate art from artist, that's fine, you're valid in feeling this way, but if you love the series and the game genre is your cup of tea, go for it, no one should hold grudges against that. PS: The moment you mentioned the website, I immediately knew where this was going, I never even knew it exists but making it was a bad idea from the start.

[@antonberkbigler5759]

Rowling uses the profits of the Harry Potter franchise to support and fund anti-trans hate groups. You know that, right? The success of the game near-directly translates into the success of anti trans legislation and lobbying, and that’s to say nothing of the purely social aspect of supporting Rowling. It’s hard to separate art from the artist in the specific way you perceive it when the author herself desperately clings to the art’s continued popularity as a way to legitimize herself. She uses the volume of popularity of the franchise and passes it off as support for herself. And sure, it is just a game at the end of the day, a minor thing in the grand scheme of things. But that’s *why* the boycott was important. People that bought the game knowingly in the face of the boycott and of JK’s attitudes made the choice that financially supporting a crusade of hatred against an oppressed and increasingly in danger minority group was something they could stomach if it meant they could play a mid game that was coasting off of fandom loyalty. That a game was more important than supporting trans people in even a very small way. I was also a fan of Harry Potter back in the day, I watched the films as they came out growing up. But as a transwoman, I don’t get the luxury, the *privilege* to ignore it the way you seemingly can. There is rot within the series itself and you can turn a blind eye because it (presumably) doesn’t affect you. There are millions, maybe tens of millions of people out there that want me dead just because of who I am. There’s a chance that if they manage to claim my birthnation’s government that they would make my existence a crime punishable by death. My evacuation is all but set in stone. You are not transphobic, many who bought the game aren’t either. But their ambivalence was a refusal to impede an impending genocide, and if or when it happens our blood will splash against their hands just as surely as it does that of the executioner’s. Is Hogwarts Legacy really that much more important to you than even a token gesture of support?

[@everythingpizzaandknuckles6268]

​@@antonberkbigler5759 That's a lot of words (W tbh)

[@RedZeroX]

@antonberkbigler5759 Except a lot of trans and allies bought the game, Rowling wasn't directly involved in its making, the things she supports (from what concrete infor I heard, might be incorect) aren't as much against trans as much as not including trans, with most of the money she gets probably going to support her lifestyle, so only a percent of a percent goes into it. By the same logic, eating chocolate is supporting slavery because of how coco farms in afrika work, nasty people will always be involved with everything to some degree, yet only this game was mass targeted, because it was easy to do. Lastly, people have actively berm more destructive with their "support" then anything, like how a top streamer wanted to play the game while doing a fundraiser for a trans support group, only for him to do neither because of the amount of hate he got. If it matters, I'm (probably) a trans woman saying this. PS: Sorry for the late reply.

[@antonberkbigler5759]

@@RedZeroX Lateness is fine, and to be fair I got too emotional. There’s just so much stuff going on in this era, you know? But it’s totally possible to stop buying chocolate from the worst companies, not all of them are like nestle. But even if every company, every ounce of chocolate was made using slavery, you can totally just stop eating chocolate entirely. I’m not going to make a big reply rn.

[@freddiefishton]

i looked at the curators’ negative reviews for Hogwarts on Steam. some of them were people talking about JK Rowling being herself, others were saying that the game was bad. then there were the “anti-woke” curators. and guess what they had to say… woke. yeah i’m no kidding, they called the game made from miss “trans women aren’t women” woke. how ironic is that?

[@graftongazaway]

I find it disgusting that Nintendo didn't want same sex relationship in Tomadachi Life, yet there was a Fire Emblem game that has incest as an option. What ever happened to the "political statement" with that Nintendo?

[@PalisadePeryton]

Bridget's kinda lucky though, imagine your parents being so supportive of your trans identity that they were gendering you correctly before you even knew it lmao

[@ChunkSchuldinga]

NPCs in games with character custimzation should aways refer to the player as they/them and never give them audible lines. Nobody gets to bitch about pronouns that way, lack of player character voice lets the player roleplay in their headcanon, and the developers save on resources by recording potentially half as many gendered lines and use that time to actually make the game not shit. Everybody wins.

[@StopMotion-Dann]

i feel like that could work in some games but not in others like the kind of games that are story driven such as Jedi fallen order or any of the uncharted games and we do see some instances where the system you mentioned is implented like undertale where all the npc's just call you "Kid"

[@StopMotion-Dann]

i feel like with some games that could work like undertale where all the characters just call you "Kid" but with other games such as story driven rpg's like jedi fallen order or all the uncharted games it just wouldnt.

[@khanlusa]

Good video and my sympathies RE writing a script about this. Every time this happens is exhausting, I just want us to exist and it not be treated like a fucking bomb went off. I have distinct memories of arguing with people on the Bioware Social Network back in the day before and after Mass Effect 2 was launched, because folk on the forum were proudly displaying signature banners that said "I Support Heterosexuality in Mass Effect" and I met one of my best friends in a thread titled "The Fight Against Same-Sex Romance" that got completely out of hand because GDC was on at the time so none of the moderators were around. We at least trolled the homophobes with pictures of waffles, men kissing, and shitty haiku. Point is, I'm still incredibly bitter at Casey Hudson for saying that they were treating their 18/M RATED GAME like a PG13+ sci-fi action movie and that's why Mass Effect 2 didn't have gays. 💀💀

[@ZekDraco]

Japan is very weird with trans people. A lot of the time Japan treats people being trans as a joke, they don’t really hate trans people but there is a lot of transphobia in Japan. Originally birdo was used as a joke against Trans people and I believe the creator of Metroid made a joke about Samus being trans in an interview.

[@blasphemyincarnate6498]

*Birdetta

[@SpeedyShimeji]

Your sona art violently bonked me on the head with the realization that Nagi Usui has the most trans girl energy imaginable. I know it's not exactly the topic of this video, but I thought you might like to know. Thank you for this wisdom.

[@Technilogica2019]

im not naming any names cus this was genuinely well intentioned but god bless her heart (in the backhanded southern way) i have a relative in my family who is not very internet savvy, definitely a bit older, but wanted to play hogwarts legacy and thought that because of the trans character she was going a good deed how do i start this conversation there are so many layers of twitter to get through and im not sure she even has an account

[@ACursedJessie]

im glad even an outsider to the persona community can understand the nuance on kanji naoto and yosuke its funny how these decade old games are still relevant and being talked about today in regards to LGBT characters, i have a video regarding similar topics on my own channel good job on the video 💜💜💜

[@Scrofar]

Hey Melany, thanks for being a trooper and creating this video. I can't imagine the frustrations, anger, and fire hoops you had to jump through writing for this vid (I probably would've given up halfway bc of the misery factor) (the curse of being an empath, I guess) but I admire your endurance to speak out and speak up and educate us on trans character rep in gaming. Which makes all the moments of celebrating a character canonically embracing their gender identity or transness all the more rewarding!

[@Wibby_Wobby]

One day we will receive Homodachi Life🙏

[@Candjstudios2024]

I had a controversy once when i made a brawl stars inspired game. You can honestly summarize it up with a gru meme. "I design a slasher film omage character wearing a pumpkin on its head" "I make one of its skins an unmasked skin, revealing the character as secretly being female, despite the character being named Jack after the pumpkin mask, and being referred to as male often, because the other characters don't know the true identity" "People hate on me for having the character secretly be female, and also for her crushing on another female character in the games roster" "People hate on me for having the character secretly be female, and also for her crushing on another female character in the games roster"

[@voiceofsaph3225]

Surprised that even after bringing up Naoto, there was no mention of Chihiro Fujisaki.

[@ThomastheRiolpixQueen]

Beacuse Just like naoto from persona 4 it's not lgbtq related, to put it short he was bullied into thinking he needed to crossdress to stop the bullies bulling him for being girly and weak, crossdressing does not = trans alot of people seem to forget about that now a days even that one famous trans KZbinr lily has forgotten that when she referred to that gumball episode as a "trans" episode

[@yummmemonty7450]

As a persona fan, I think the reason the naoto discourse is so prevalent is because of another character in the game kanji. Kanji’s arc is all about him coming to terms with his sexuality, connecting to a crush he has on naoto. and besides one of the party members having some late 2000’s homophobic remarks, it’s written really well and is very compelling, both his journey of self acceptance, and his crush on naoto. The crush persists post reveal, which fuels a separate discussion about whether kanji is gay or bi, And since the game kinda stops discussing lgbt themes around halfway through, speculation is all we really get Edit: I typed this all out before I saw that you talked about kanji and yosuke, oops

[@nyxmoth]

girl i know you did not just call him ishiwata

[@MelanyMiku]

Oops

[@WalterFoog-fn7hi]

The antisemitism in Legacy wasn’t so much on the devs, The Bastard wrote the goblins that way originally

[@MaytayMaya]

I never got the debate around Naoto personally, even as a trans woman. Persona 4 is a game about truth, and self discovery is part of that element, every character undergoes facing a truth about themselves that they try to hide. An early story example would be that Yukiko doesn't want to take over her family's inn and wants to run away, she feels like a caged bird, hence her boss fight. Later she realizes that it wasn't that she didn't want to take over her family's inn, but she felt like she had no choice, and in the end, chooses to stay and help run the inn. Chie sees Yukiko as someone she always wants around because she wants to be relied on, etc. While Naoto's dungeon is about gender, its a lot more grey than "you're a dude lol." As you mentioned its about sexism in the Japanese policeforce and how Naoto wouldn't be taken seriously if she was authentic to herself, instead putting on an detective look inspired by the books she read when she was younger. Naoto's truth is that she's put on a false identity as a man and acting grown up for a 15 year old and had rejected herself in the process, trying to change into something she doesn't want to be in order to do what she wants in life. While yes, Naoto crossdresses, in the true ending to P4, she adopts a feminine look, long hair and dresses feminely, showing how she's finally accepted that it doesn't matter *who* she is, her actions and skill as a detective will shut up any comments regarding her gender. Kanji's dungeon is... well his shadow is an incredibly sterotypical gay dude and his palace is a sauna and we'll leave it at that. He accepts his alleged sexuality (its never confirmed in game but he's heavily coded as being bi), and his softer side, which he has put a front on as a tough and meaning guy who picks fights with gangs (he really does it to keep his mom safe). Kanji's link is probably my favorite in the game as he feels like he'll be mocked for his feminine hobby of knitting dolls but is revered by a kid and his family who loves his dolls and constantly commission more from him throughout the link, he's the character in my eyes that gets the most development through his links. Usually I'd take people's opinions of a game/topic they haven't played/researched with a grain of salt, but Persona games are... really long so I'd understand why you'd get opinions from those that have. Great vid btw! ^^

[@undertaleandminecraftfan9184]

the situation with persona 4 seems similar to Mulan where a character outwardly presents as the opposite gender.

[@KrimsonKattYT]

All these controversies are just silly. Some characters are gay. Some characters are trans. Some characters are not those things. Get over it. Canon is canon and what the canon says goes. Tomodachi Life: Honestly this controversy is 100% justified and it was pretty bad for Nintendo to make every mii in that game straight with no way to change it. They should have 100% been a sexuality option when creating miis. You didn't even have to call it sexuality, they could just say "what kind of person does this mii like" and you can say "likes guys, likes girls, likes both, or likes neither." Nintendo promised a sexuality option would be in Tomodachi Life 2, but that game never came to be. StarField Pronouns: Pronoun options in a game where you create your own self insert character? Makes sense. More options is never a bad thing. The people who raged about the pronoun options were completely brain dead lol. Vivian Paper Mario: She's trans, get over it. In the OG game she's trans in every language minus English and German, even if in the OG JP version almost every character is transphobic to her, even Gombella. In the remake she's trans in every region and it's made pretty explicit. Brigitt: Originally one of the most popular "femboy" characters, western players misunderstood her character so when she came out as trans as part of her arc in Strive femboy enthusiasts were VERY mad. However, they need to stop the cope and just accept that Brigitt is a girl now and that's final. There's already plenty of femboy characters being made constantly. Losing one femboy isn't the end of the world. There is no "trans agenda" erasing femboys, Brigitt was misunderstood by western audiences and the the only other example antis being up of "femboy erasure" is a obscure BL manga who's official localization made the (very feminine) male love interest into a trans girl for marketing reasons. It backfired VERY badly for them. A Xenoblade: This ones pretty cut dry. Androgynous character is referred to with no pronouns in game, people misunderstood her introduction cutscenes, most people come to the conclusion that she's NB. Suddenly the artbook releases and confirms A's gender as female as stated in the code. Pretty cut and dry. Juniper Xenoblade 3: They're non binary and the code confirms it. Keep coping. Naoto Persona 4: She's not trans. The dialogue doesn't portray this very well but the reason she "wants to be a guy" isn't because of gender dysphoria, it's because she's a female detective who aren't taken seriously in her sexist work field so she needs to disguise herself as guy, and all her role models growing up were male. Her arc is about accepting that it's okay to be a female detective and fight back against sexism in the workforce. It's not about Naoto's gender at all. The whole "Naoto is trans" argument comes from a deep misunderstanding of the game's story and it's characters. Also Naoto in later entries dresses a lot more femininely, (though this is backtracked a bit in P4D) so yeah she's definitely a girl and identifies as such. Kanji Persona 4: 100% bisexual. However, his sexuality doesn't really matter, which is one of the points of his social link. He even straight up says as such in his Rank 10. His story is about taking pride in your hobbies, even if it doesn't fit with traditional social/gender roles. He is definitely into dudes tho, but he's also into girls based on everything in that game. Therefore, he's bi. His shadow is super flamboyant gay because it's based on Kanji's fears and insecurities, who's afraid of being seen as "weak" and "gay" because he enjoys sowing and cute things. Persona 5 Shinjuku Scene: Don't get me wrong, the scene in P5 and P5R is REALLY bad. However, it was MASSIVELY mistranslated from the JP original, where the gay couple just wanted to buy Ryuji some drinks and Ryuji freaked out because he was underage. Yes they were still stereotypical in Japan but at least they weren't pervy and/or r-worders like in the localized version.

[@foggy8298]

4:34 it definitely wouldn’t be able to retroactively include without some heavy back-end editing that could’ve been a significantly larger file than would otherwise be acceptable. Nintendo probably wouldn’t have bothered doing as to oppose just including same sex relationships in a would-be sequel or remake/remaster which we’re still waiting on… Nintendo would later promise to include same sex relationships in games going forward, not just in a theoretical sequel. This was first seen in… fire emblem fates. The fire emblem game that seemed to have been written by a 14 year old boy who first heard of women through anime… Fire emblem fates has holistically bad writing from the cringy genuine Mary Sue self insert character, to the tacit incest support being able to marry your adoptive family, your biologically family (except they fake you out by revealing that they’re actually only your half-siblings, which doesn’t help), to the one-note characters which, unlike the early fire emblem games or awakening, tried to tell a serious story with them and thusly failed, etc etc They also only included 2 gay reps. A bisexual male option and a bisexual female option. The male option is a flirtatious hyper-sexual sadomasochist and the female option is a copy/paste version of a character from the previous game (there are 3 of those) who’s a generic yandere archetype… not a good look for the only 2 gay people they included. Except it’s even worse, as another character, Soleil, is explicitly sapphic as she fawns over basically any woman she sees except she, as far as the game is concerned, is purely straight. In the original Japanese support conversation between the self insert corrin (as a male) and her involves Soleil asking him to help her overcome her constant state of infatuation as it makes it hard to fight, and so corrin fucking drugs her drink to see women as men and men as women??? And it does technically help her in some unexplained way, but afterwards she falls in love with corrin as a man which… reads as conversation therapy to some people, and at the very least unconsensual drugging to everyone, including Japanese fans, who complained about the support so much it got rewritten in the international release. There’s also Forrest, but he’s kind of okay in isolation. Just a feminine man who likes girly things. It just reads worse in context of the rest of fates. Luckily, later fire emblem games would rectify this. Three houses had it be so that only your boring self insert avatar had any explicit romance, which had multiple female and male bisexual options. And none of them are stereotypes. There was a minor issue, the “s-rank support” denoting romance was used in the first time in the series to denote non romantic relationships too in 2 of the male options, instead representing a father-like relationship, so that made many realize at release there was only 1 bisexual male option in reality, Linhardt, compared to the 4 for female Byleth, being Edelgard, Rhea, Dorothea, and Mercedes (5 in total, but 1, Sothis, was also platonic in a way I cannot fully describe) Of the 4 main characters of the game, Dimitri and Claude are left straight despite both of them having scenes that could be read as romantic, while Edelgard and Rhea are allowed to be bi. Although this seemed to be due to how unfinished 3H was, as a later free update would include the previously unplayable and half-complete Jeritza, who was a 2nd bi male option, and the dlc campaign also included Yuri as a 3rd. Also, many of the supports and endings between characters not including the avatar were romantic, both straight and gay, just left to “will they won’t they” until the paired ending cards, where it’s more explicit. Engage, despite being written almost as bad as fates if not worse, did give one major improvement compared to three houses, that being making everyone bisexual, and making non-romantic S-rank supports a common occurrence for the aromantics out there. Hopefully fire emblem ditches the self insert avatar soon. The next FE game should be the long anticipated Genealogy of the Holy War remake, which unlike the past few non-remake FE games, has no self insert, and unlike fates and engage, actually has a good story. It does also have a matchmaker system between the characters which does actually HEAVILY influence both story and gameplay, but considering that influence relates to that word genealogy in the title, it may unfortunately be hetero again, despite magic existing… here’s hoping

[@gentlghost]

Programmer here! I should give a little bit more insight into the Tomodachi Life portion. While I'm unfamiliar with the game, I think I can at least throw my hat into the ring. First of all, I do agree there should be a button, a drop down option, or some other input to choose what gender a Mii is attracted to. For example, if we are going strictly with the gender binary (just men and women), ideally, there should be at least four options: Both (pan and bi people), Men (gay men and hetero women), Women (lesbians and hetero men), and None (aces). While it doesn't represent all the sexualities, it might be a good starting point for a lot of people. I'm assuming Nintendo (or whoever developed Tomodachi Life) would have to refactor the code in order to have this option. Since the game designer had only hetero relationships in mind, there would be an algorithm like this: 1. Check if the Miis want to be in a relationship 2. Check if they are the opposite sex 3. If conditions 1 and 2 are met, create the relationship Now, if we want the Miis to just date whomever they please, in theory, we should be able to delete step 2. That will result in this algorithm: 1. Check if the Miis want to be in a relationship 2. If condition 1 is met, create the relationship However, if we want to add sexualities, we may need to add more steps to our algorithm: 1. Check if the Miis want to be in a relationship 2. Get the genders of the Miis 3. Get the attractions of the Miis 4. If the Miis are the same gender, and they are either bi or gay, create the relationship 5. Else, if the Miis are the opposite genders, and they are either bi or hetero, create the relationship 6. Else, don't create the relationship This only accounts for some of the backend, and it doesn't account the UI elements that may needed to be updated. So, while it may seem like an easy fix, it may be a lot of hassle. Luckily, it might be easy to implement this algorithm, in theory. Assuming that Tomodachi Life was made with C++ (since it was made for the 3DS, and it's a common language for 3DS development), the language should support object-oriented programming (OOP), and, if Nintendo used OOP, the Miis might inherit from a parent where we can implement the new algorithm in. Often, it is good practice to try to not rewrite a bunch of code, so developers try to reuse logic and functions as much as possible. TL;DR: While there are places where the code may need to be rewritten, it is not impossible to implement sexuality in the game. In fact, if there is no mod for the game currently, I'm surprised there isn't one.

[@EvelynIsDeprecated]

Something i would like to mention: iirc, if you edit your save file to make a same sex couple share a house, the game crashes. This is because it most likely assign a femminine and masculine position for both of the miis to be in. If they both share the same position, the game freaks out and dies. There are some workarounds i could think of though if i were to mod the game, including just randomly assigning them to either role each time the room is viewed. Also I would like to note that i do eventually plan on crearing said mod.

[@gentlghost]

@@EvelynIsDeprecated Interesting. I didn't know that. I guess it's now more complicated than just modifying a parent class. It looks like there needs to be more work on the houses and the save files. Kind of weird that they went into this much work, but I guess it shows it's not as easy as I thought it would be.

[@Rainbow_Heart]

To be honest, I originally heard of Bridget from femboys, but hearing more about her now is actually really sweet knowing her story, and and a sweet ending after those other moments you mentioned. Bridget may now be another favorite character of mine :3

[@zoura3113]

in regards to Naoto, it reminds me of Chihiro from Danganronpa. they're not transgender characters, but crossdress due to their circumstances. for Chihiro, he was bullied for not being a masculine male so crossdressed as a girl to hide himself and not suffer. Yet in the games story he grows and decides he wants to become stronger and come out and live as his true self: a male. For some reason people read him as being a trans woman when his story leans more towards being a trans man than anything even though he isnt

[@miigi-p4939]

The problem is that they just die and all you hear about them you hear through monokuma The characters instantly switch to he/him pronoums and it just feels icky

[@zoura3113]

@@miigi-p4939 he does die early and they handle his case pretty poorly in the trial thats true. like looking up his skirt to determine his gender was pretty awful. but it doesnt change that he's still a guy that wanted to come out as a guy. even in the spin-offs like danganronpa S and ultimate talent plan he still talks about his desire to come out as a guy

[@miigi-p4939]

@@zoura3113 oop sorry i never played danganronpa S so didnt know about that i am just basing off danganronpa 1, (in wich i also didnt know if he actually wanted to come out or if he was just doing it cuz of monokuma motive)

[@Astral76]

Definitely gonna be a good informative video when characters from two of my favorite game franchises are in the thumbnail!

[@everythingpizzaandknuckles6268]

22:17 THE TOOOOOOOOOOOWN INSIDE MEEEEE-

[@AliceGaymer]

i love me trans women, the only thing that shouldnt be in my paper marios is white outlines- which saying that out loud its kind of ironic- BUT YEAH I LOVE VIVIAN, TRANS QUENNNNNN

[@vitalost9935]

Don't diss the white outline, I get too much hate for no good reason... it's sad.

[@cyborgpuppyofficial]

Heya! Persona Fan here! I've been into Persona for about a year now, and I've played and watched through Persona 1-5 (Except for Persona 2 Eternal Punishment), as well as some of the spinoff titles. And there's actually surprisingly some LGBTQ+ rep in Persona. But it's UHHH complicated, but I can try to explain a few things. So as for the three games you mentioned, Persona 3, 4, and 5 all have their queer controversies. The original joke from Persona 3 was removed for obvious reasons, and as far as we're aware, Naoto doesn't identify as a guy in any way. But in Persona 3 Portable, you have the option to play as a girl, and date another girl named Aeigis! Now TECHNICALLY she isn't a "real girl", she's a robot. But Aeigis goes by She/Her pronouns, and refers to herself as a girl, or one of the girls when she finds out her identity. Sadly the female main character hasn't made a return in 3 Reload, but it's representation. As for Kanji, as a Bisexual person, I see him as totally Bi. He's shown interest in Naoto even when he thought she was a guy, and still found her pretty even after she was revealed to be female. But there's more proof of his sexuality in his story. His shadow, aka the suppressed parts of himself, was made as a gay stereotype. But despite this being uncomfortable, then the story of Persona 4 is about accepting yourself, even the "bad" parts. It's not like he says "this gay part of me is wrong". He accepts his feminine hobbies, and his shadow self who IS the stereotype. This story can apply to cis and straight players, who enjoy hobbies that aren't masculine. But I think it also speaks to Queer people, at least, he spoke to me and my struggles that I had. And also, in the spinoff games, the topic of his sexuality comes up again. Mainly in Arena, where his shadow returns to try and mock him for his sexuality. Instead of being scared of the possibility of being gay, he stands up for himself, and again, accepts this part of who he is. Not even denying that this shadow is a lie, because he learnt that a shadow is a part of who he is. I personally see this as him, no longer hiding his sexuality, and still being accepted by his friends. And not being afraid of other people's judgement anymore. So yeah, I see his story as totally queer! But, it depends on the player. As for Yosuke, you mentioned that his romance route was cut VERY LATE into the game. That means that I think the game wasn't rewritten, and all his scenes are supposed to be him being in denial. In Yosuke's story, it shows that he wants to be seen as cool, and as a big shot instead of being in the small town of Inaba. I think and believe that in cannon, he's totally closeted. As someone who used to act just like him, when I was closeted, and in a not friendly environment for my queerness. Then his story was definitely meant to be queer, but due to the original game coming out in 2008, then I guess Atlus was afraid to go through with the romance route. I mean, hell! He even asked Kanji during one (very uncomfortable scene), "will we be safe with you sleeping in this tent with us?". I remember thinking gross things like that, because it was normalized to think that gay people were predators. But I totally see him saying this, because he himself, was unsure of his own sexuality. In the Anime, and in games like Arena and Q, Yosuke is shown to be the closest with the player. And even gets embarrassed at thoughts of being with the protag (another male) romantically. Like that clip from the anime, and if you pick him for a wedding in Q. And what's better about him, is that he learns and grows to accept his friends in the story. Just like how Kanji can rely on his friends to always be there for him, even if they can be mean sometimes. Then Yosuke is seen to change later on in the story, being more accepting that Naoto is a girl, and doesn't make any Transphobic comments as far as I'm aware. The biggest example of his growth, is in later games like Arena and Dancing. Where in Dancing, he still teases Kanji about his sexuality, but not in a hateful way like the tent thing. Instead, he'll playfully say "so you like that guy?" or "you'll be beating the guys off with a stick with those dance moves!". Sure the way he goes about it COULD be better in some instances, but he genuinely does show to try and be more supportive for friends. Especially to Kanji, now that he's accepted himself, and helped his friends find out who they are. I wish they kept the romance route in cannon, but his social link, and literal dialogue and voice clip of him confessing his love, is enough for me to believe he was always queer coded. And that his story was supposed to be about someone discovering who they are, just like how the rest of the game's characters were. As for Persona 5, there's one uncomfortable homophobic scene in the game that I will not mention. It's uncomfortable as hell, and totally unacceptable. Like, unlike any other Persona game. Then Persona 5 came out in 2016, when gay stuff was starting to become more accepted. So making a joke the way they did, really feels trashy. Especially because just like Persona 3, the scene they added, doesn't add anything to the overall story. And the scene can be cut, but for ports like Persona 5 Royal, they didn't cut it. They changed the interaction to be less creepy, but the characters are still played for laughs. And it makes me really grossed out whenever I need to see said scene. But on a positive note about that game. There IS a drag queen named Lala! She's not shown to be creepy or offputting, she's just another worker like anybody else you meet in the game. She's actually shown to be caring and friendly, telling her regular customer not to buy alcohol for the player (a minor), and acts motherly to you if you go to visit her and Ohya (the customer). But sadly her inclusion can't erase the grossness in the earlier part of the game. There's even older proof of Persona having representation all the way back in the 90's! With Persona 2 Innocent Sin, there's an openly gay character named Jun. He was made as fujoshi bait at the time, but many queer people saw themselves in him, and he's more than just a sterotype. Sure he's more feminine looking, but he doesn't fall into being creepy like other examples. He's a nice, caring guy, who just so happens to be gay! There isn't much IN the game of him being gay for the protag (another male), but that's because of the time it was made, and the budget on a 90's game. Sadly, most of the Demons if you talk to them when dating Jun, will be homophobic. But some of them are actually supportive, or just hate humans in general, regardless of gender or sexuality. Good on those demons for being ally's I guess. XD Another character from Persona 2 is named Anna, she appears in the story, and is openly queer for one of the main girl characters, Yukino. She isn't treated as being wrong for liking her, but wrong because Yukino is too OLD for her. And she eventually let's her crush fade, but doesn't lose sight of herself. She isn't suddenly with a man and now she's "fixed", she grows, and learns that her crush wasn't healthy. But that she can still find happiness. One last character from Persona 2 that I should mention is a background character. They are a trans character with no name. They go on a journey that you can check up on everytime you see them. They come to terms with the fact that they are a woman. And when that IS great, it's sad that the narration does refer to her as "Strange Woman" instead of just being a woman. But it is better than making jokes at her expense. And again, these games are very old, so some parts of them can't be helped. That's about all of the Queer talk that I can think of when it comes to Persona. I know that there's more, mostly with theories about people's sexualities, and interactions that seem romantic. But these are the ones that I can currently think of being cannon. I hope this helped, or at least was interesting to read. I loved this video by the way! And totally earned a new subscriber! ^w^

[@123youbia]

This is gay. Approved.

[@imapotato8649]

8:06 Bruh the way I got fucking jumped 💀

[@KGKSkull]

The tomadachi life bit would be difficult. Namely because of how it would affect pre existing saves, plus a gender preference button would be a bit hard to make, especially on a portable console. Though yeah they should’ve at least done some type of update. At least the miis can cross dress, it’s not a lot but it’s something.

[@HXSKlmfao]

I loved the Scott the woz like scroll with the nestle owned companies lmfao

[@annaSapphire360]

I have not played GG strive yet, didnt know Brigit was canonically trans

[@Bob-bs9ok]

"It's not possible to change this game's design" now I don't have access to the source code but it probably wouldn't be hard to delete or comment out the code that _checks whether the miis are the same gender_

[@MegaMegajennifer]

i just realized the school uniforms have a bit of that pattern that looks like space ships in old sci fi games, i love that pattern ^_^

[@_Five_Knights_]

I didn't make it far at all in Persona 3 reload, but I'm so so glad to hear they changed the transphobic scene, good lord. That's like- the one scene I was mega dreading and the scene I skip over in playthroughs AAA

[@liammcnicholas918]

Ace detective? More like st-

[@gallidomgallade2944]

the funniest thing from the vivian controversy is that whenever someone gets made their twitter gets flooded with beldums to a stupid and funny degree

[@MegaMegajennifer]

maybe with tomodachi life they would also have to add ways to have kids, like saragate mothers and an orphanage