LGBTQ Relationships and the Bible: A Progressive and Evangelical Dialogue

[@denali9643]

Sean presents a scriptural consideration and Colby responds: “That’s a god I want nothing to do with.” Progressive Christianity is not submitted to the Lord - it submits to the culture.

[@reform8892]

That is very true. We need to submit to God and everything His word says

[@mauigh89]

Colby wants nothing to do with the God of Scripture which disqualifies him as a "pastor." In the end it will either be "Lord, thy will be done," or He will say to us "thy will be done."

[@reform8892]

@@mauigh89 Lord, let thy will be done. I dont mean to instigate😅

[@run4cmt]

These are really hard issues. We want to love everyone. But the most loving thing to do is not to leave them in sin.

[@reform8892]

@@run4cmt your not wrong

[@ATiredMom]

Sadly, those like Colby who say they don't want to serve a god who has such standards really has made an idol, and therefore, we are not even discussing the same God at that point.

[@scottandrews1757]

how is this guy even a pastor teaching the bible

[@inchristalone25]

Everything he says is emasculated. He is being led by his and other people's feelings.

[@hoxiefam6731]

@@inchristalone25 yeah we can't be led by our feelings our hearts are wicked.

[@LFTDLorax02]

Colby doesn’t seem to try to sympathize with God’s feeling on the matter. That’s a problem. It doesn’t matter what Sean or Colby “feels”. What matters is what God commands.

[@Dearswolve]

I agree. 1:23:12 "Thats a God I really want nothing to do with". That made my jaw drop and it is really sad.

[@godisfreedomwithjordaneffr8798]

I want to start this off with Love. As someone who dealt so strenuously with the desires, lusts, and haughtiness of Same Sex Attraction as well as Opposite Sex Attraction. I understand how hard it is to hear that we are wrong in wanting to pursue the desires of our flesh and we believe it’s our life to live but I ask you what happens when look at our life as not our own but as a service unto the Lord. When you think about the sacrificing of the Lamb we must think about the gift we received and the sacrifice we were given. I will happily give the Lord whatever he needs from me to be in accordance with his word. There is freedom in the Gospel. There is freedom in the flee from sin. There is freedom in resistance of temptation and the wiles of the devil. There is freedom in love and truth. There is freedom but it can only be obtained through obedience to the word of God.

[@gregorrobertson2124]

Hey Jay Jay, Keep fighting the good fight. God is very happy with our pursuit of holiness and righteousness. One day we will all be walking in complete righteousness, when Jesus comes. I struggled for forty years, continuing to trust in God's forgiveness, continuing to trust the relationship we have with God, through Jesus, continuing to trust that I have a new identity in Jesus, believing God instead of my feelings. A month ago, God completely removed all same sex attraction and all of the bad habits that go with it, completely gone and vanished as if it had never been there. Strangely enough, it was forty years after I became a Christian, to the day. I didn't expect that. One thing I know. God is happy with us continuing to stand up, when we fall over, and for us to continue trusting. That is the race that is to be run. Our situation will not compare to the wonders we will realise when we are with Him. Bless you.

[@ATiredMom]

@@gregorrobertson2124 Praise God!!

[@jernisharichard5032]

❤PRAISE GOS'S LOVE 😢❤😢. HIS LOVE IS LIKE NO OTHER. HIS WILL IS TO BRING US BACK TO HIM; WITH KNOWLEDGE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT OF TRUTH. WE ARE MADE IN HIS IMAGE❤; ACT WITH JESUS CHRIST IN MIND,AND HEART SOO WE ARE PERFECTED + 💖 😍💖+ LIVING, BELIEVING, FEELING, BEING USED FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD 💓🕊️💓 ; IF WITHOUT HIM 🙌🙏🏽🙌* WHAT IS RIGHT* ? NOTHING?

[@teedoug5433]

@@gregorrobertson2124 thank you for this testimony

[@LilyAmongThorns]

@@gregorrobertson2124 amen, lifelong struggle…. and special honours and blessings await those of us who are overcomers. Living a life that resists temptations of our flesh in seeking to live in accordance of God’s will is not easy, nor is anything else in life that is worth striving for. We are in a battle against the powers of darkness. If we give up and give in and base our “love” or what we think is love only on our feelings we base that love on shifting sand because feelings come and go. We need a more solid foundation than feelings and that foundation is found in Jesus, in sacrifice, in faithful obedience to what is truly holy and true.

[@pamelarada9239]

My heart breaks for Colby. Sean did a great job in displaying a loving attitude in a biblical spirit.

[@jeffgilpin]

Sean...I love how whenever you have conversations around differing opinions, you always start with what you agree with, rather than what you disagree on. Such a great and God honoring approach.

[@thespousessellinghouses7606]

What I would like to hear is a discussion on the trendiness of not being heterosexual in the teens of today, how social media fuels it, and how that is effecting the church.

[@SeanMcDowell]

That’s a great suggestion, thanks…

[@desnock]

Let's be clear, it's just being spoken about more - the questioning of one's sexuality has never changed throughout history, people are just engaging and feeling more free to express their journey with others. Better this than what the Church did a bad job of in the past which was mired in hate and really caused a lot of harm. We can debate the puritanical (not historically consistent as Sean may be somewhat mistaken about) perspectives of marriage within the West, but we'd have to really expand out some concepts if we are to be truly honest about what marriage is and should be in and out of a "Christian" (which is itself broadly different) context.

[@AndrewLoui]

Ephesians 6:12 “For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.” God love ALL humans, he loathes anti-humanity organizations (Romans 1:26-32) These organizations, such as Sodom, Nazi, CCP, drug cartels, human traffickers, organ harvesters, genocide performers, are the true meanings of “men committed shameful acts with other men.” Don’t take Romans 1:26-27 out of context and use it to attack gay people. It has nothing to do with gays. LGBTQ+ are humans. Churches attack them are anti-humanity organizations too. Don’t be fooled by Satan’s teachings and explanations. He wants to turn churches into anti-humanity organizations for sure.

[@Luke_Radiosmash]

@@desnock can you honestly say with a straight face that societal pressures do not influence someone's sexuality? That this absolutely rudderless, identity crisis we've been thrown into where biology itself is controversial, has no bearing on the 40% of Gen-z-ers who identify as LGBTQ?

[@desnock]

@@Luke_Radiosmash I don't think I made that claim, Luke. Can you say with a straight face that the Bible is recounting historically cultural realities that have been used to confirm biases? The story of the OT is that humanity has always been rudderless, and the NT the rudderless were the Pharisees, to which the current Church is most aligned with theologically and illogically. The idea that gay people or trans people didn't exist in prior ages is a lack of historical research on your part and again a sense of confirmation bias that revels in not being quite up on what you are talking about. Again, those people existed from time immemorial. The only difference today is we are aware of it as the voices are more able to communicate in the public square. The identity crisis resorting to bigoted perspectives has been helped by a more honest conversation by those 40%ers who God loves as much as the bigots who hate them.

[@machellovelivelife658]

Dr Sean McDowell, has the patience of gold.

[@lindseyestep7981]

I also hold a traditional Christian view, but I really appreciate Colby engaging in this thoughtful, respectful conversation. I think I need to practice listening to people who hold different views. You guys did such a great job of that! Thank you!

[@sonjawelliver-finch5747]

Sean has had my attention for a couple months now, with him trying to understand and explain peoples views, however it doesn't change my views whatsoever!!!! Go Sean

[@anthonylomonte3437]

Yes of course if they will listen to. Colby is willing to listen to Sean

[@bigguy7353]

At least he tried. He still sticks to his far left delusions, but he tried.

[@hoxiefam6731]

Why are we calling it a traditional christian view? The ONLY view a Christian holds is that homosexuality is a sin. If you hold any other position you are living in sin and in rebellion of God and we need to call that out.

[@daraharvey4519]

@@hoxiefam6731agree - we need to be careful with how we use language. Words matter. They shape our understanding in ways we don’t even realize. The far left knows this - that’s why they cover their ideas in euphemisms.

[@joshuajoy3130]

"Freedom cannot be separated from truth." Well stated, Sean!!

[@SeanMcDowell]

Thanks. Got that one from Os Guinness.

[@dansaber8435]

@@SeanMcDowell There's a death toll associated with your rhetoric. I told you that like 5 years ago. And you still haven't cleaned up your activity. You're a piece of work.

[@emartin9404]

You mean to say, the wages of sin is DEATH! Align your words with the word of God and you can never stray from righteousness 🙌

[@dansaber8435]

@@emartin9404 That's why I trust God and not the knowledge of good and evil. You can be born again.

[@emartin9404]

@dansaber if that were true you would never attempt to draw an association of death tolls to a man reverberating the word of God Plainly described in the text of the Bible within the Scriptures

[@cmor7722]

First of all my appreciation for Sean and the way he shares the true with respect, PATIENCE, and love. I have to learn a lot about the patience part : ) Second, my heart goes to Colby because as He said : he's loosing the forest for the tree. There's a battle inside you brother. You want to serve two masters, following the culture and justifying their beliefs on feelings. You said that you don't think you're in the wrong because you're doing what Jesus said about His easy yoke but forgot to mencion the part where Jesus also said; pick up your cross and follow me. If you are humble enough to re-watch this dialog, you will find out that the truth is exposed in such a graciously way that is very difficult to be lost. May God guide you and give you understanding and discernment. If you decided to be a pastor or a preacher you are responsable for the wellbeing of the sheep. We're not alone in the battle but we need to surrender all our wants to the Lord. Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away but my Words will never pass away.⁷

[@jasonsamuel3949]

You can tell how hard it is for Colby to explain his position.. and how easily the flow of Sean's explanation is. There is no battle in the mind for Sean, and there is a battle in Colbys mind about him comprimising the truth for the world's benefit. Praying for Colby to think about him and and his families salvation because he is going to make it so hard for his children.

[@karenbarnes7021]

Well put!

[@biblicallygr]

Very true. It seems clear that Colby is a very thoughtful and deep man, and if he keeps honestly and earnestly searching, then he will find the truth.

[@greyhoundlovesme]

Astute observation!

[@TheSpitler812]

Perfectly said

[@Jenny-px5tu]

Just because someone is more comfortable in public speaking and can articulate better, doesn't necessarily make him right. Take Jordan Peterson for example.

[@uzzielcampis5247]

What surprises me the most is Sean's self control, prudence and patience throughout the hole conversation, especially when he cannot get clear and direct answers to very simple questions. A clear example of how to respond with meekness and reverence, with honoring respect to any other human being who is a God's image bearer and worthy to be treated with God's given dignity. Thank you Sean for that testimony and example.

[@kimanthonydavid]

The power of the Holy Spirt!

[@GypsyGirl317]

Yes! He is completely in tune with the Holy Spirit. 🙏🏽😊🌿🙆🏻‍♀️♥️

[@camerong5513]

sounds like you're glorifying your own confirmation bias . gives me the warm and fuzzies ...

[@camerong5513]

@@GypsyGirl317 sure, Gypsy. Cringe

[@shirleycull8917]

So sorry for Colby and realizing how hard it must be to live in a world of decisions that you base on feelings and no absolutes. It was difficult to listen to his evasive non answers, unscriptural opinions. I think he said it all when he said, “That’s a god I want nothing to do with.” I’m a widow living a life alone and trusting this is God’s will. He gives me my needs and walks with me. Please realize the Lord provides strength and trust to live a life alone. Is it hard? Yes, but God is sufficient, no more than enough❣️

[@moxiegirlstein5276]

❤

[@daraharvey4519]

So true. And we need to not make marriage an idol. Marriage is also really hard.

[@daMillenialTrucker]

​@@daraharvey4519I wish I was married :(

[@kanji3945]

Oh, you are soo right. Feelings can change like the weather. Mon u can "feel" one way, then Wed its something else. No foundation At all.

[@limop20]

you can literally see the ego speaking in his eyes

[@stevebrandau9300]

Colby is really likeable and has a great conversational style. He was completely able to speak his views accurately. His viewpoints and ability to give voice to them start falling apart when the rubber meets the road... like biblical definition of marriage. His answers after that all start offering philosophical ramblings and indirect responses. He remains completely likeable. I think we know that this all comes down to the authority and sufficiency of Scripture.

[@thespousessellinghouses7606]

I agree. While likeable, he seems to be all over the place. And he admits that he doesn’t answer questions directly.

[@jeromecoleman6674]

I agree as well… it’s like this, if you want to do what you want, ok fine, but don’t say it’s not wrong. People just need to admit that they’re doing wrong and stop trying to make what is wrong, right!

[@Naomi_OB]

Perfect summary! He says outloud he has "crooked theology" Likeable. Doesn't seem to have any roots in Scripture. Then mentioned his "out" is he's "following Jesus example"

[@KM-zn3lx]

Yes! Most people cave to the "feelings" department. They choose to forget God is perfect and he condemns all sin!

[@lindawells5114]

You stated it well! I was listening to learn how Colby defined scripture that allows and even accepts his ideas. He did not provide Bible facts on the subject, only his opinions.

[@hartlemw]

Sean - your example at the end of this chat (marriage is the primary metaphor that God uses to describe the relationship between Christ and the church and, therefore, twisting the definition of marriage is evil) was very powerful. Great example

[@camerong5513]

There's more than one way of being Einstein

[@formerfundienowfree4235]

God doesn't have a gender

[@camerong5513]

@formerfundienowfree4235 and seeing the eunuchs (homosexuals) were exempted from mf marriage by jesus as recorded in Matthew 19 this argument is more than stupid . It also presumes a definition of marriage was given , and an exhaustive one at that. 🤣 🤡🌍

[@pauthang2439]

@@formerfundienowfree4235Hod identify himself as He though.

[@silvers_ink]

@@camerong5513 Nobody said there wasn't more than one way of being. That's irrelevant. You can choose to live your life however you want, but if you're living contrary to God's word then you make yourself an enemy of God and those who do that will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.

[@donnazavitz1095]

Thank you Sean. Always keep going back to scripture and stand under God’s word.

[@camerong5513]

mmaky

[@laurenscott091]

This was a great discussion! I agree with the comment below that change is possible by the love of God and the power of the Holy Spirit. I struggled with homosexuality for 7 years and now I’m delivered. God can do anything in someone’s life. I realize from this discussion that many people use feelings and experiences as their guide on what to follow and how they should live. In my opinion, many rather God adjust and bend to their feelings versus them adjusting and submitting to His Word. I know that we are all learning and seeking truth. We must be careful that we are speaking and sharing with accuracy what the Bible teaches, not what we feel or what we want to be true.

[@OldThingsPassAway]

Hi. I just wanted to say I think it's great what God has done for you as that doesn't always happen. Sometimes people cannot rid themselves of same sex attraction. But still, just like any miracle, they happen when and if God decides, not on our own timing. Blessings!

[@dyn-o-miteessentialoilteam7162]

Colby wants you to believe him over the overwhelming scripture reference. He throws in “your hermeneutical approach” which implies the new approach of the liberal theological approach is better than the last 2000 years of Leviticus, Romans interpretation. Colby fails completely in trying to prescribe a new interpretation and I can only assume he is moved by the latest 20 years of lgbt movement without acknowledging the Bible’s condemnation of same sex marriage. He just blows past it and cannot give a biblical response. He looks at moments of time in heterosexual marriage and says “it’s sinful” as well and therefore what? God created the Union of man and women period. The purpose was to unify and become one body and therefore give a better understanding of God himself. Be fruitful and multiply was the command of God to mankind. So where does LGBT fit into this plan?

[@laurenscott091]

@@dyn-o-miteessentialoilteam7162 agreed!

[@Obscuredbywinds]

i’m sorry that you are this delusional

[@fshepherd8149]

PREACH!!!

[@rachelb357]

I can only pray that I will someday have half the grace and patience that you do, Sean. This was tough to watch for so many reasons.

[@Tp_Sv]

So true 💯

[@donnar9864]

I agree...I could not have done this.... honestly, it made my blood boil...so many people are pointing out that Colby wants God to bend to him and if He doesn't, Colby wants nothing to do with Him.. and yet he's a preacher, a preacher of what...yep, no way I could have done this conversation with him...but this only tells me that I have to work harder in the Lord to have patience with others...

[@taramckinley7585]

@@donnar9864 Absolutely. I find myself yelling at my phone when listening to conversations like this - particularly when Progressive "Christians" are involved- I dont know that it can even be called Christianity, it's totally unorthodox and they've made God into their own image in order to support their lifestyle. I have never had a problem loving people, but I have a real problem when they're being led astray by someone who knows better. Colby even said at one point that he didnt want to be involved with the God Sean was describing. These Progressive Churches will someday answer for lying to their flocks- Pastors and teachers are held to a higher standard. I feel sorry for the people he is misleading. Truth is Objective. There is no relative Truth, only THE Truth, Jesus. Not MY truth, not YOUR truth, THE TRUTH. I hope Colby someday sees it. I'm glad there are leaders like Sean out there who are willing to tell The Truth in a loving way. I pray God gives me the grace to not get angry about those leaders who are misleading the public and using Gods word as an excuse.

[@j.reesebradley4771]

While I do hold Sean’s view, I can’t stress enough how much I appreciate these discussions. Thank you so much Colby and Sean!

[@ladillalegos]

What part did Sean got wrong? ( explain Biblically please)

[@j.reesebradley4771]

@@ladillalegos 🤔I hold Sean’s view. I don’t think Sean got anything wrong. He did a great job!

[@desnock]

@@ladillalegos even Sean struggles with and respects he could be wrong. There is a reason beyond any legalism/literalism that underlies your perspective that this happens. The Holy Spirit is alive and well in Colby as he practices what Christ preached and doesn't rely on bad dogma. The bible as misapplied cannot be used as a standard for a number of reasons: most of you don't really understand the historicity and culture that created it. Second, you don't apply consistency to it as you make and infuse it with authority it doesn't possess (and doesn't pretend). And then there are the troubling scriptures that suggest a daughter to be sold to her rapist, the rules and regulations around slavery which IS all part of the Jewish Law. AND the fact that Jesus simply didn't state that homosexuality or even polygamy were sins as a matter of FACT, regardless of how folks want to imbue Paul with the authority of Christ (which would be idol worship, specifically pointed out by Christ as a sin against 1 of His 2 Commandments). So bearing false witness IS a sin, and making idols out of your own particular dogma/bias is another example of a lack of humility and ability to submit yourself to God's instruction IF you believe Christ was God. There is a reason HE said to deal with the log in your own eye (a large item) against a speck in another's (a small item). There is a reason He said that some would come in His name that HE would call evildoer. It's probably a good idea to meditate on those items than propagate a false dogma, which I see Sean is struggling with. He would admit he preached incorrectly when he was younger and you could see the struggle IN love that he had when confronted by a gay parishoner's struggle. If Sean, or you, continue to be honest and let the Holy Spirit work in you, it'll lift the veil from your eyes. I have faith that if YOU are ready to hear God's wisdom, someday you'll get there. Just have to get beyond the religion and dogma and childish/magical thinking, which even Sean struggles with. God Bless.

[@adrianruiz6091]

@@desnock with all due respect, and in kindness. I believe that Jesus talks about adultery very clearly, and defines it to greater extent even stating that those who divorce in order to be with others are adulterous. Matthew 5:27-32 But I think that just by reading Matthew chapter 5 in general gives sufficient basis on His moral compas regarding to Jewish law. God bless

[@desnock]

@@adrianruiz6091 He does talk about adultery, that's my point Adrian. He doesn't talk about homosexuality or polygamy, so if He wanted to point out sins of marriage, wouldn't He have pointed them out? Both existed as relationships in His time. So even here Christ gives permission for divorce. And says one must give her a certificate for divorce. So where did I suggest His position on adultery? And in what way does this apply to His non-position on homosexuality or polygamy? The discussion revolves around people making up a sin Christ never spoke about, but He did talk about sexual sin. Thanks for the respect, we'll show each other the courtesy as we try to help each other see what Christ said and meant. Can you correlate that with Matt 22: 34-40? As the guiding principles of how we are to see anything HE says or how we'd interpret any Scripture based on HIS instruction?

[@darlenedunlap6693]

There are so many issues here with Colby’s belief system. I appreciate he was willing to discuss this issue. I will pray for Colby. He’s in need of God’s Holy Spirit. Much love to all.

[@elisaeadesee]

I was going to say the exact same thing regarding the Holy Spirit. If submitted to His authority, there’s no room for “my interpretation or what I feel”. It’s straight forward and the wrestle if any, and it appears that Coby is wrestling, only comes from our own fleshly desires or our desire to please man and culture.

[@clarkl4177]

Most of us are unaware that our nation had deep roots in taking manners seriously. Only THREE MINUTES IN, and already I'm impressed with the tone and attitudes being demonstrated, also that both are agreeing on "ground rules". Also appreciate that Sean is upfront with "this is my show but..." MORE examples of--and action towards--civility are REQUIRED for our nation to survive. God's blessings to both of you 🙏

[@wolfofthewest8019]

Evangelical Christians have to use good manners, if you assholes actually revealed what fascist hatemongers you are then everyone would write you off as the garbage people you are. Evangelicals are the worst pieces of shit in America. You should all get in a boat and then sink it.

[@sherrybroers6459]

Thankyou both so much for such a open and loving conversation. When Coby said “that’s a God I don’t want to have anything to do with” I cried. It truly breaks my heart that this issue clouds peoples view of God so much. I pray for him and for these conversations to keep happening and for soft hearts to see Gods truth. God is so so good and worthy to be praised even when we don’t understand his ways, they are so much higher then ours. And I also pray for my heart to remain soft to be corrected in areas where I am wrong about.

[@BEABEREAN10]

That was seriously heart wrenching when he said that. I pray God's light and grace for anyone who believes that way. God's will and word is what is holy and just regardless, we can't judge it based on our feelings and Philosophy.

[@theresabriant6499]

Sherry, Well said Thank You how you shared your heart. I feel like Wow God help me to be more like these men. Telling their truths to eachother. Do I condemn like the pharesees and not even realize it????

[@desnock]

I mirror Colby's sadness for those who prefer an angry judgmental God that is on your side vs the side of unconditional love. I get his point 100pct. You've been inculcated with a God that you must feel punished by for being who God made you. And hate yourselves so much you must avoid the log in your own eye. It IS pretty sad.

[@theresabriant6499]

@@desnock You so provoke me to rethink when God said we are all sinners saved by Grace. I've always thought God is a Loving God who understands why we choose what we do.I myself believed in things that when I studied out the word Bec my heart and head didn't match I shifted my point of view. God's word has brought me life and understanding that I could have never reached without him.

[@desnock]

@@theresabriant6499Absolutely. Same is true of all who truly seek Him. I think you do, but unfortunately we both see some folks who CLAIM to be seeking Him who we can tell aren't really serious. That's as much reason to engage (or try to) with folks who are caught up in bad understandings of Christ, scripture, etc. Our minds should always be ready (and our hearts) to changes God tries to write in us. Remember, dogmas are from men, not God. And God gave us not only the will, but instruction to discern (test by the fruits). If the dogma isn't of love? Discard it. Try to reason with those Pharisees as Christ did, but also realize that Christ said some who claimed to be His followers were indeed "evildoers". So we must be ever vigilant, and I am certainly called to defend those who God has created that have suffered mightily under these religious biases that Christ cannot be happy with.

[@rickmeunier9291]

Colby's penchant to not answer questions directly and avoid dealing with the questions reveals far more than his words.

[@markshaneh]

Sure does.

[@selenasch3957]

Hes slippery like a snake.

[@aHavenForTheLost]

Amen❤

[@juanderuano8969]

Great video, I was in a beautiful marriage before my now ex wife left me,i still love her and most times i cant stop thinking about her, i am doing my very best to get rid of the thought of her, but i just cant, i love her so much, i dont know why i am bring this here for, i cant stop thinking about her

[@juanderuano8969]

@jay pritchett wow, how did you get a spiritual adviser, and how do i reach her?

[@juanderuano8969]

@jay pritchett Thank you for this valuable information, i just looked her up now on the net

[@greyhoundlovesme]

It sounds like you guys are discussing witch ( spiritual adviser healer caster) and witchcraft… be careful with that

[@MollyPitcher1778]

When you think of her, pray for her. Pray for help in this situation. Pray for His will be done.

[@prophet6154]

I know man... Was married 23+ years. And I've been single since the divorce she wanted and got. She wasnt in love with me anymore? Ahes been married and divorced two more times so I guess she is searching for happiness? Or possibly a better version of me? Idk... Divorce sucks for all parties involved. The kids, the couple, the families, the friends ... But I am okay but still broken about the whole ordeal. Good luck to you man.

[@WendyWzOpinion]

I find it scarily dangerous when I hear a pastor say that they don’t want a god who would lay out guidelines for living a God-honoring life. That’s exactly what we have in the Bible. If that’s NOT a god he would want, why does he claim to love and follow this one?

[@jsharp3165]

He believes there are guidelines. He just believes that the second greatest commandment is the guideline that trumps all the others. He believes loving people and not placing burdens on them that you wouldn't place on yourself (lifelong celibacy, marriage to someone you're repulsed by, etc.) is more important than rule-keeping. I disagree with some of the assumptions and cherry-picking behind that premise. But I understand why he feels that way. He truly believes he is defending God's love by rejecting what he sees as a legalistic God.

[@scrumpymanjack]

No idea why anyone bothers with the Bible any more. What’s the point? Life and nature work perfectly well without it.

[@Masculai1z]

@@scrumpymanjack The Bible is the revelation of all truth. Life and nature ''work'' without it sure, but you wouldn't know why it works, who makes it work, or what the meaning of life is in general.

[@zivadavid1775]

@@scrumpymanjack does it? Seems to be falling apart and destroying itself. "Life and nature" being man left to himself is inherently selfish and with morals.

[@scrumpymanjack]

@@Masculai1z please prove to me that that is what the Bible is. If you do, I will go to church every week for the rest of my life. As the evidence stands, I prefer to look at the Bible as an historically fascinating but ultimately absurd attempt to explain the origins of life and the universe.

[@Brandoncannon]

When giving their reasons why… one went to thoughts and feelings and the other went to scripture.

[@LoriLev1107]

Yep!

[@desnock]

One went to Christ's instruction and the other is coming to terms with rejecting the Pharisee's POV and seeing the good fruits that follow Jesus' commandments... May be you're confused. God Bless!

[@Brandoncannon]

@@desnock Completely agree. Sean went to Christ’s instruction. I see his guest has having a great heart but unfortunately Jesus did not call us to use our hearts to see His Word. The Bible actually calls our hearts wicked. He called us to let His Word determine our worldviews.

[@desnock]

@@Brandoncannon No, you meant Colby went to Christ's instruction which you can see Sean struggling with to catch up with. Easy mistake as even Sean points out he's not relying on the Pharisee like legalism. Jesus does call us to discern and to love which is to rely on our hearts. If anyone misses this commandment, then that is a sad outcome indeed. I get the mistake. People are wicked, like the Pharisees who twist scripture and whom Christ called evildoer. The love Christ speaks to from our hearts is infused in his ministry. From the Samaritan, to the healing of the Roman who came to take him to the Cross, to again, the Greatest Commandments which were love. Even Paul points this out in his (albeit non authoritative) way when talking about faith hope and love. That you miss that saddens, but also proves the point Sean is struggling with in how many "believers" get it wrong. His whole reason for this was to point out the lack of compassion. He'll get there with the Holy Spirit work Colby is espousing to Sean, and you can see how it is changing his heart, which again I'm sad you see for yourself is wicked...but also likely just a method of espousing your dogma against Christ's teaching. That's meaningful, if you feel you should pray on it? HIS Word, not the Bible, which are two different things. You do realize that the Bible we know of wasn't written in His time? And that He didn't edit it? Not trying to be facetious, but the logic you are relying on is probably the start of yours, and Sean's, confusion.

[@keith3362]

Colby says God is love - Jesus is God, and Jesus said after forgiving to ‘go and sin no more’. Can’t really say He got it wrong. Other replies here seem to think love means leaving them in their sins.

[@lovegodlovepeople1592]

I don’t believe we were meant to let multiple people into our bodies. I’m so sorry that this is so complicated for people. I thank God for his mercy to me, and the gift he has given me in my husband. Thank you for tackling this Sean.

[@jennifer8929]

Agree as well. Even though I’m not married and have had sexual relationships I do think now as a Christian it’s unhealthy to let different souls enter you.

[@christopherscheiber1439]

@@jennifer8929 but its interesting that only when gay people do this is it considrred a " lifestyle" but when straight people do it, its not called the " straight lifestyle". There is a segment of the straight population that hangs out in straight bars, hooking up for sex, drinking, engage in promiscuous sex, even sadomasochistic sex, yet this is never called the " straight lifestyle". Interesting.

[@barbaraperales8663]

@@christopherscheiber1439It's called fornication.

[@christopherscheiber1439]

@@barbaraperales8663 the description of homosexuality as a lifestyle is a blatent oversimplification of human sexuality in general and homosexuality in particular. The reason that we never hear the term " heterosexual lifestyle" is because there is no need to catogorize heterosexuality with such inherent connotative oversimplification in order to subconciously justify contempt and hatred through subjective comparison.

[@barbaraperales8663]

@@christopherscheiber1439 Yes, that is true; I agree.

[@lisapratt97]

Before I get to actually listen to the conversation, I just want to say thank you for the willingness on both sides to have an open, respectful discussion. You’re teaching us believers how to engage in these important conversations lovingly; that’s exactly the type of leading we all need. God bless you both. 🙏🏼❤️😊

[@LoriLev1107]

Very interesting conversation. Gutwrenching to hear Colby's reaction to Sean's explanation of Biblical truth... It boils down to if he can't have God on his own terms, he doesn't want Him at all. Very sad.

[@cherylnel7288]

I agree.Colby wants to justify this lgbtq way of living

[@mads597]

Alternatively, Colby knows that a God who creates people’s natural sexual orientation just to reject their natural state isn’t very loving at all

[@russ4moose]

There was little Biblical truth discussed here, just two men's opinions on things.

[@1wethejones]

@@mads597 God is more than love. God is also justice and truth. Some things are true whether we as humans like it or not. He is the creator. We are the created. We get to decide if we want to follow God, but it's on His terms, not ours. You cannot pick and choose what you're going to follow in the scripture. JESUS said in the last days, many would cray out to Him and He would not acknowledge them by saying, he never knew them. Imagine that. Manipulating scripture to fit and justify your lifestyle and making God a liar because you don't like what His "rules" are. If you continue to sin without repentance (this goes for all of us and all of sin) then we're really just liars in general. The light is not in us. But we are all sinners, we should at least TRY not to sin and when we do repent-earnestly repent. We certainly don't throw ourselves parades and claim we are proud of it.

[@michaelmorris1314]

Alternatively, Colby’s idea of God loves all people, not just the ones like you and me. Scary, I know.

[@lionheartapologetics4914]

Sean, you have supernatural wisdom and grace! Thank you for your willingness to discuss such difficult topics with people who totally disagree with you. You and your dad are a huge reason that I'm an apologist in training.

[@SeanMcDowell]

Love to hear it, thanks!

[@ConstantSurprises]

Honestly, if the conversation was more like this in years past, we could have saved so many lives. The church should reckon with that, and understand the damage it’s done. But thankful for these two and hope to see others follow this example.

[@michaelmarshall9132]

When you say what the church has done in the past , what church are you talking about ?

[@marquezana6810]

I had been free from the life style and it was only possible through the word of God, working in my life with His word to accept who and how I was created. It’s sad to see how we can ignore the truth and the truth is that we are blind to His word and when living in this lifestyle, but when we decide to believe God and not what I want that’s when we come through and find healing from our broken soul. It’s not that there is two diferente friends it’s when we decide to trust God and not our own thinking, at one point I felt like Colby but thank you Jesus you showed me your truth and now I’m free!!

[@desnock]

Your truth is not someone else's. This is the mistake of the dogma that is promoted against the metaphor that was meant.

[@desnock]

@Mike Hammer worshipping dogma against Christ IS a choice. Presuming that dogma is correct is not a valid argument to the validity of any dogma, otherwise others who claim superiority based on them saying God is on their team are equally valid. Problem is the claim is equally invalid.

[@coreyshaffer3903]

Lifestyle? Articulate

[@christopherscheiber1439]

@@coreyshaffer3903 the description of homosexuality as a lifestyle is a blatent oversimplification of human sexuality in general, and homosexuality in particular. Such indoctrination of the collective societal psyche is paramount to the self validating delusion of heterosexuality possessing moral validity. The reason that we never hear the term " heterosexual lifestyle "( even though one cannot describe homosexuality as a lifestyle without also describing heterosexuality as a lifestyle) is because there is no need to catogorize heterosexuality in order to subconciously justify contempt and hatred through subjective comparison.

[@coreyshaffer3903]

@@christopherscheiber1439 👏🏽👏🏽 He didn't take the bait lol. I like to think of homosexuality as a love style versus the pejorative notion "life style"

[@Made4more1432]

Truly love this discussion. I appreciated your respect and heart, Sean. I think the way you speak is so kind. I am super impressed how you state your case. I love how you are grounded in truth

[@SeanMcDowell]

Thanks Kim. That’s my goal.

[@cathyphillips9120]

Thank you Mr McDowell. You were kind, compassionate, listened carefully, yet held tight to biblical truths. Great conversation from both sides.

[@triciakind7454]

This is my 2nd time listening to this and I’m always So appreciative of the respectful way Sean speaks to all his guests. Thanks to Kolby for his courage and respect also.This is how to have healing dialogue. Isaiah 1:18““Come now, let us reason together, says the Lord: though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool.” ‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭1‬:‭18‬ ‭ESV‬‬

[@RuslanKD]

1:15:15 - where does the question come from? I’m guessing Colby isn’t familiar with the “maps” (minor attracted persons) movement that’s desiring to be identified as an orientation

[@mrcolbymartin]

No, no I am not.

[@tinahochstetler2189]

@@mrcolbymartin It's what pedophiles have renamed themselves. MAPs - Minor Attracted Persons. they say the word 'pedophile' is too stigmatized, so they gave themselves a new name. Because apparently that makes it all better. They use all the same arguments that are used to justify same sex marriage. They say they are born that way and it's an unchangeable sex orientation, and isn't it sad that they'll never be able to experience love with the only people they are attracted to. There are already academics painting them in a sympathetic light, and agreeing with them that their attraction to children is a fixed sexual orientation that they are born with and can not change. The MAP groups, pedophile groups, whatever they like to be called have been trying to have the age of consent lowered, citing the fact that it varies from one part of the world to another. So they see no justification for it. They also fight their battle based on their 'concern for the sexual autonomy of children.' They think of themselves as a children's rights group that way.

[@islamicclarity7062]

@@mrcolbymartin Thanks for having these convos, Colby. Much respect for that. Curious, how would you define 'woman' in a way that includes 'trans women'? Is there anyway to define that besides: 'anyone who identifies as a woman". and if so, isn't that a bit incoherent?

[@willire8811]

@@mrcolbymartin Why does no one ever talk about gay sex and heterosexual sex when you have multiple partners? Can we not talk about the damaging health effects of these behaviours? The only reason heterosexual and homosexual promiscuity’s can happen I this post modern era is because of medical advancement. You can practice abominations because of aids and and STI treatments and of course the elimination of preborn children (abortion) … why does no one ever broach these issues? It seems so obvious that if you have to make medicine to practice something that is apparently completely “natural” , isn’t this a red flag? Isn’t it obvious on a purely natural observation that nature (Gods design) of one man and one women to commit for the longevity of their lives preserves an individual from sexual infections and extramarital unwanted children) that can lead to suffering, illness and death? I’m sorry to be vulgar , but there is a lot of prep work that goes into having gay sex… not saying heterosexual individuals don’t wanna be clean before the act, but… come on!…… think about it… this is not natural… even though it might feel good and right… think about the purely practical and biological processes… it ain’t right… Also in the 90s a-lot of gay men died from aids virus… this is not flourishing… why don’t we talk about these elephants 🐘 Pretty sure also we have waves of illness and death in heterosexual promiscuity like syphillis chlamydia ect which have horrible effects on the body! This should be such an obvious reason we should I abstain from sexual immorality…

[@danielleholley817]

I was thinking about this towards the end of the video. I had recently watched your video on m.a.p 👍

[@georgehobbs5263]

This was a rich, thought-provoking, and very substantive conversation on what is a very challenging topic for a lot of Christians. Despite their theological differences, I can tell that both Sean and Colby are coming from a place of love.

[@lawrencemayo6889]

Hi Colby Respectfully Why did GOD make woman if HE did not want marriage to be just a man and a woman

[@berylcraig51]

I learn so much from Sean's 'style' and humility in speaking to folk with different view points from his. Thank you Sean for 'speaking the truth' with the love and graces of Jesus.

[@LCDRformat]

Why is 'speaking the truth' in quotes?

[@JonathanTheZombie]

1:19:41 Colby’s thought on how his actions will be taken into account based on his works says all I needed to know about his theology.

[@mikearchibald744]

Evangelicals have taken over a lot of youtube religious conversations but they are very much in the minority. Mennonites I liked working with because I remember going to a church meeting once and they told me "we're building a group home this week, and thats what we're talking about in church". They get into NO theological arguments or discussions and go with "Jesus said do good works, lets do good works". That leaves NO time for judging others, something the evangelical faiths now seem to often ONLY do.

[@JephthahTorres]

And then he compared him being wrong with Sean and said Sean would get judged more harshly. The arrogance and naivety showed strongly there .

[@camerong5513]

So what's the difference between actions and works Einstein?

[@noblelies]

Faith without works is dead. Apparently folks seem to always forget that when they consider how they mistreat gays.

[@camerong5513]

@@noblelies meaning what exactly?

[@nocamo2288]

I really appreciated this discussion. The wonderful thing I see with both Sean and Colby is that they are maturing their understanding of LGBTQ relationships and maturing their understanding of the Bible by being humble, and by being willing to talk, listen, and learn. I love that they are both willing to grow. I loved hearing Sean empathize with the young man who was afraid to go to hell but who also felt like life itself was a hell, and I loved Colby’s decision to break out of the ‘echo chamber’ to empathize with a different perspective, and speak with gentleness and respect (and some great corny humor, lol). In my eyes, Sean comes from a place of scriptural conviction seasoned with compassion for anyone wrestling with their sexuality and their faith. I really loved what he said about freedom not just being separated from hindrances, but also being united with something true, something purposeful, and something that is rooted in a nearness and trust in God. Jesus says there is freedom in doing what the Scriptures say (John 8:31-32), and Solomon writes about trusting God even over our own understanding and submitting to Him in order to straighten our paths (Proverbs 3:5-6). The tragedy is that humanity constantly fails to properly teach (or even to properly understand) what the Bible says. Professed Christians often hurt the very people they are trying to help (even if they have the best intentions) and often give hopelessness to others when hope in God’s love is exactly what others needed the most. Time and time again, people try to make an impact for God, but fail because they lack the crucial quality of character that can help them become more impactful (1 Corinthians 13:1-8). In my eyes, Colby comes from a place of deep empathy for his fellow human beings, seasoned with a strong conviction that God’s love is real, absolute, and all-encompassing… a free gift for all, not just some (1 Timothy 2:1-4, John 3:16). I loved his understanding that humanity has failed in the stewardship of the gospel, time and time again. I think of Saul (before he became the Apostle Paul), a Hebrew of Hebrews, more studied and knowledgeable of scripture than most of the people he would ever meet, yet his life’s work actually led him to persecute, arrest and kill the very first group of Christians on earth. Jesus literally had to appear to him on the road to Damascus in order to stop him from persecuting more of his people. As the scriptures say, “There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death (Proverbs 14:12).” Imagine the impact a learned man like Saul would have had on others around him when he was persecuting Jesus’s people… many others would most likely have trusted his deep knowledge of scripture and his reputation in the community, and persecuted Jesus’s followers right alongside him. Yet notice the love and kindness Jesus shows to Saul on that fateful journey to Damascus, even at the violent height of his “scriptural conviction”. Jesus does not mess around. He doesn’t play games. He knew God and knew the kind of Father God was, and he was determined for the rest of the world to really know Him too. He was determined to preach God’s Word exactly as God instructed, and love God’s people exactly as God commanded. It is a love that doesn’t compromise God’s instructions for sexual intimacy, but it is also a love that doesn’t hold back on God’s desire to give hope to all His children (every last one) and meet their deepest needs. God’s love is so unfair, but not in the way the world often tends to think. I think the Bible shows God trying to rescue and reconcile humanity to a love they were always meant to have, time and time again, and shows God culminating His plans for each and every one of us through the sacrifice of His Son, for our sins, on the Cross. God clearly defines sin, but He also - very intentionally - renders it utterly powerless by putting Jesus, His Son, in the place of anyone sin could have condemned, and calling anyone and everyone Jesus died for back to His side to give His kind of Love a chance over anything else the world tried to offer. A Love God always planned to give to us… a Love that the world could not even fathom. I think God is the most Oprah of Oprahs. Everyone gets a second chance at Love, done His way. Because regardless of human history, our failures, hurts, or opinions, God is the genuine article. I think the LGBTQ community is every bit as human, as beautiful, and as needed, as any other community on earth that is capable of love. I also think the Christian community has the potential to give real hope to human beings all over the world if the stewards and practitioners of the gospel do it from a place of humility, love, and a true replication of Jesus’s example. I think the distrust and hurt that keeps being caused between the LGBTQ community and the Christian community happens because there are lived experiences and scriptural understandings that both sides keep holding on to (and are afraid to let go of). After listening to this discussion, I still feel that there are opportunities for more learning and more empathy. 1 Corinthians 13:1-8 calls us all higher regardless of which side of the conversation we fall on. Wisdom and knowledge that lack’s God’s kind of love is actually very unpleasant to the ear (and honestly a waste of time and effort for both the speaker and the listener), and sacrifice and piety without love (which often evolves into immaturity and hypocrisy) gains a person nothing. Yet God’s Love is ALSO a love that seeks the truth and does not shrink back from it or avoid it. In fact, God’s kind of love REJOICES in the truth. It looks at God’s whole message (not just the grace, but also the hard teachings and the limitations) and is still willing to give it a chance… still willing to trust God, Proverbs 3:5-6 style. Unfortunately this kind of love often looks like foolishness to the world (1 Corinthians 1:22-24), regardless of the community being called upon to put it into practice. Where is the Christian who looks at any member of the LGBTQ community, any human being on earth, and fully understands that God sees both the observer and the observed as His children? Both sinners that He is excited to love and protect, delighted to help and support, and absolutely determined to have in his Kingdom if they both trust in Him and follow His Sons ways (2 Samuel 14:14, Micah 7:18-19)? A God that adds the names of the IMPERFECT to His list in Heaven, long before their journey is even complete (Luke 10:17-21)? Where is the human that sees all the joy and pain of Gods Word (both the parts that are easy to understand and the parts that are hard to accept), and realizes God isn’t just calling us to learn His way and unlearn the world’s way, but that He is also our Coach, the athlete’s Dream Coach - the Coach of Coaches - in our corner, picking us up when we are struck down, believing in us when no one else will, delighting in our uniqueness and our potential, and encouraging us to keep going even when we are feeling utterly powerless, isolated, or ashamed (Jeremiah 29:11-14)? I’m thankful to have found this conversation and I’ll be praying for more clarity, understanding, and love for all our communities involved. I hope this conversation gets revisited sometime soon, and I hope to hear even more refined perspectives from these great speakers when that time comes.

[@jakebnsn]

This was a fantastic comment, thank you for taking the time to share this!

[@annesmith9495]

Thank goodness for people like Sean, who have a heart for God’s truth and speak it how it is. If my doctor told me I was terminally ill I would want it him to be truthful about it so I could begin to either look for a cure or prepare for my demise. No pussy footing here!

[@FalconOfStorms]

Anyone notice at 23:08 when he says it's damaging to be taught to fear our "instincts, intuitions, and desires"? Isn't like, half the Bible about how our human nature is corrupted and our desires bend inexorably toward evil?

[@pressia07]

Exactly👏🏾

[@kjpesl7311]

Yeah he missed our sinful nature

[@suse7535]

@@kjpesl7311why does he think we are to submit to Jesus and come in repentance? It’s for all our sins and SHAME to be forgiven and changed and removed completely by the blood. I do not sense the Holy Spirit is guiding this guy. He’s a theology student who became a pastor and is now leading people astray. There’s been no supernatural born again experience for him. I pray that changes.

[@ShockedSquirrelhere]

As someone who has struggled deeply with attraction to same sex in addition as desire my husband- accepting Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior somehow has minimized my lust or desire for others. It is a relief I pray God continues to bless me with. It unnerves me and leaves me in awe.

[@kstevenson3504]

I assume you are female. I'm a male who experiences with SSA. I thank God you have been able to find peace and able to reconcile your faith and sexuality. I feel my journey has been rewarding. I no longer consider this a struggle and I've found much peace, love and happiness. May God continue to grant you the same in abundance.

[@davidsprouse151]

@@angelinadesanto672 That's true, as long as one's image of jesus isn't a projected narcissism. It's a kenotic experience rather than a projected self-image. maturity is easier the older one gets lol.

[@Sirach144]

Same.

[@biblicallygr]

Wow, I really appreciate the calmness and civility that is being expressed in this debate. Each party is really willing to understand the other’s side, even if they don’t agree with it. I have been on a debate binge for a while now, and this is by far the calmest one that I have seen yet. Very refreshing.

[@vgrof2315]

All the civility in the world doesn't really prevent the endless splitting of the denominations and churches. The logical end to all of it will be that each individual will have his own religion and church. Imagine, a bunch of churches each with a congregation of one!

[@biblicallygr]

@@vgrof2315 very true brother.

[@RuslanKD]

I love that you keep having these conversations in such a charitable way! Colby is very likable and looks like he hangs out with Jerry Lorenzo, Rich Wilkerson JR, and Virgil in his free time and discusses the nuance of Fabric and modern street wear cuts

[@mrcolbymartin]

🤣 I don’t know who any of those people are , but I do like hair (and I cut my own!)

[@BlueWambat]

Unfortunately, not a very charitable comment, Ruslan KD. I don't see the need to dig at a person's appearance. If it matters to you at all, Colby, I think you look sharp.

[@tinahochstetler2189]

@@mrcolbymartin Very nice job with the hair. Hairdressing might be your second calling.

[@veganian2019]

@@tinahochstetler2189 or his first calling.

[@veganian2019]

@@BlueWambat I guess you were standing behind the door when they handed out irony? Eh?

[@danjliv7]

1:23:05 - "I hope you are not right, because that's a God I want nothing to do with." This is the whole discussion right here. By saying this, he revealed his motivations. Do we love Christ and his law or not?

[@PotatoPirate123]

Do you support slavery then? Because passages like "47 “And a servant who knows what the master wants, but isn’t prepared and doesn’t carry out those instructions, will be severely punished." Indicate that the Bible is ok with it, if you are not willing to use nuance and context. If it is the case that someone is only willing to use nuance and context for passages that support a personal dislike of homosexuality then then they are arguably being inconsistent and cherry picking God's words to suit a personal agenda, which of course is the same thing you have highlighted.

[@krisly76]

Everyone, just keep praying for Colby. God can change anyone, anything & at any time 😊.

[@camerong5513]

Even your ignorance

[@moiraharvey1815]

Thank you both. Pray Colby hears God's word truthfully as he ponders on your conversation and searches the scriptures. Frredom from shame is not license to sin. Freedom is being able to say no to sin, It isn't always easy but we weren't promised an easy life. Thanks again.

[@camerong5513]

yea yea. 'k

[@vickikauffman1887]

I really enjoyed this dialogue. For those watching these two for the first time, I’d highly recommend watching their previous conversation for more clarity about where they’re coming at this from. This one will make more sense.

[@5va]

“That’s not the God I want” is the key statement in all of this

[@norigar]

Thank you Sean for using Scripture and the examples found in the Bible to back up your answers. Colby, you are an intelligent, thoughtful guy. However, I found your answers to be strictly based on your feelings and what you want the Bible to say although you never provided any Scripture to back up what you say you believe. I believe you have an honest love and concern for gay people. I also believe that you are struggling greatly with "your truth". Your body language shows how uncomfortable you are, how unsure you are. You didn't want to get into any serious use of Scripture and that should be a self-evident warning sign for you right there. The Bible is the standard and without it, there is no leg to stand on, only your feelings and thoughts. In most every answer you gave, it was a vague, undefined dance which you even admitted to. For a person that calls himself a pastor, that is terrifying. James 1: 5 to 8 describes your situation very well. You may love the people you are trying to minister to but you've allowed that love to twist the truth of the Bible to make it acceptable. Jesus spoke the truth and the world hated Him for it. He showed mercy and compassion but never allowed the truth to be altered to make those around Him more comfortable. If I decide that 2000 years of church teaching and Biblical practices are wrong in a particular area and find that the world around me agrees with me while the Christian community at large does not, I better be able to make a very clear, solid defense from the Bible and that should define my every answer, not my feelings. You aren't able to do that or not willing to which is much the same thing. God is very clear about homosexuality being sinful and an abomination to Him. He doesn't dance around it and say it's okay if you "feel" that way. He calls people to Himself just as they are but then His spirit transforms them. Our job as Christians is to accept them as they are but also to introduce them to Christ and share the truth with them. It's not your job to make the Bible more palatable to them. God is holy and loving but He never contradicts Himself. He never holds back from giving us the truth out of concern for our feelings. I'd rather make you mad with the truth and see you find salvation than make you happy and see you damned for all eternity.

[@privatepie]

I agree 100% with you Bryan.🙏🏼🙌🏽😇

[@tmac5792]

Agree! Very well stated

[@NomadOutOfAfrica]

Load off rubbish. If we stuck with biblical teachings from 2000 years ago we’d be stoning women and keeping slaves.

[@desnock]

Bryan, all of us resolve answers strictly based on our feelings of what we feel the Bible says. That's not a valid argument. The question is why and he DID provide Scripture in that he relies on Christ - because he's a Christian, not a Pharisee (whom Christ criticized for the very argument you are making, all due respect). If he has an honest love and concern, and is called through and by Christ through the Holy Spirit to his ministry, who exactly are you? On what principle (and/or authority) do you suggest his perspective is wrong? You can't say SCRIPTURE, because that is the very debate. Christ had different perspectives on legalism and Scripture than you do. HE doesn't mistake, for instance, Paul (a Pharisee) for having authority. The list goes on on VALID disagreements with the various dogmas out there which aren't just a few. I think he is masterfully letting the Holy Spirit do a work in Sean who obviously feels in his heart he WANTS Scripture to match up where God has his heart, and continues to see Colby as that vessel. I think you may be mistaking what is going on here :). No, CHRIST is the standard, the Bible is a bunch of books people put together arbitrarily and includes all manner of mythology, poetry, history and some wisdom. Making an idol out of Scripture is EXACTLY what Christ preached AGAINST. If you want to practice an orthodox Jewish faith (which is what you are arguing), as a Gentile (presumably), you don't qualify. To wit, you ascribe JAMES Jesus authority, which is idol worship. This is why Jesus said worry about the log in thine own eye, as your very dogma contradicts Jesus while you point out OTHER's contradiction with ZERO authority. Jesus did speak the truth and His church hates him for it through those whose central guiding principle is JESUS. Dear Lord! Jesus came to say to those who had however many centuries of Jewish "religion" that THEY were wrong. Do you miss this central element? Just because people get it wrong for a long time doesn't impute validity! Jesus lists a lot of sexual sins, but not homosexuality, not once. You bearing false witness is itself a sin. See how this works? He doesn't dance around it at all, you are correct. You miss He doesn't MENTION it at all! It is indeed the Christian's job to make Jesus palatable by extolling the love HE shared with us. Your legalism and self-hate is an example of you being caught in a hell of your own choosing by choosing faith that prefers you ignorant. "I"d rather make you mad with the truth and see you find salvation than to make you happy and see you damned now or for all eternity (if we are talking childish beliefs)". Take a second and apply your admonition to yourself IF indeed you're full of...baloney.

[@reginamwikali2140]

@@NomadOutOfAfrica do you think so?

[@jeffpossberg1127]

This is a major reason why I struggle with organized religion. Two same-sex people who love each other and find satisfaction in each other who otherwise would be lonely and disconnected are prevented from an obvious solution not because it has a measurably negative impact on society but because of disapproval from philosophers.

[@askuswhyy]

I seriously appreciate how you handle yourself and how you speak Sean. It's inspiring and it's the example I've been looking for when talking with those who disagree. Debate is fun, but it turns hostile quick. Your composure is healthy and beneficial for all.

[@1joeLEGEND]

This was a challenging discussion to watch, as I don't share Colby's position or perspective, however, I thank you Sean for your patience and ability to lovingly and openly have these discussions. I believe they are extremely important to hear, listen and discuss scriptural /doctrinal concerns with our brothers and sisters, even when we disagree (even more so when we do differ in view). I learned a lot today and I am glad I took the time to listen to Colby's perspectives. I will make an effort to get my hands on a copy of his book.

[@ThisDoctorKnows]

That’s a very good perspective. Even if we don’t agree with someone, it’s necessary to understand their views and be respectful and listen.

[@desnock]

@@ThisDoctorKnows This is true and also to challenge our own assumptions that we can be lazy or misled from. Jesus served this purpose, theoretically (though you might want to talk to the Jewish religion on where Jesus got it wrong, or the other religions that Judaism and Christianity borrowed heavily from).

[@ThisDoctorKnows]

@@desnock Thanks. Interesting points. Out of curiosity, where do you think Jesus got it wrong. Thanks again and all the best to you.

[@desnock]

@@ThisDoctorKnows To be clear, I said what the Jewish religion said where Jesus went wrong and that is, that He was the Messiah. They obviously disagree, which is the point of critical thinking to realize that Christianity is a belief, one of many. And that only confirming our biases is what I was pointing out we can be lazy or misled from. Many things have been done in Christ's name (or even in the OT) that are demonstrably evil - selling one's daughter to her rapist (in Deuteronomy). Christendom has a list of sins to answer for - slavery, torture, murder, greed, abuse of little children sexually by clergy - and yes I could go on, unfortunately). Presumably you are aware that much of Christ's attributes (and Judaism for that matter) were directly or indirectly influenced by previous religions that they drew from. Genesis myths, flood myths, ideas of heaven/hell and judgement, virgin births and miracles and messiahs. This is not to say any one religion is true or false, but that we cannot be scared to see what the scholarship is on these things so we are not bamboozled by confirmation biases or cultural apologism. So this is why we "must challenge our own assumptions that we can be lazy or misled from." Make more sense? Apologies if what I said above was vague. People complain when I leave long replies, so I was uncommonly succinct in my responses. Apologies! :)

[@sarahgeake7424]

Thankyou Sean for being so, so patient and clear in your conversation. Such a helpful conversation. Thankyou Colby for being willing to come on too. Keep having these talks Sean, and please keep sharing them on line. Praying for you and Colby.

[@JH-tc7wb]

If nothing else I appreciate Colby's heart for the hurting. That said, it seems like his strength (empathy) is also his also greatest weakness leading to bad theology.

[@grace3675]

I love that you are talking so respectfully to one another. This gives me hope that the world can be better, even if we never agree with one another.

[@DK-er1sy]

What a great conversation, I love both men’s ability to engage in a respectful, meaningful, and substantive conversation about a highly contentious issue.

[@noturningback2023]

Why is it contentious? Ever read Deut. 18? God says a man lying with a man as with a woman is an abomination. He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for its depravity. Why is this open to discussion? Sin is sin. I never ask God to approve MY sins. I REPENT. Daily.

[@livewellel]

Sean, I truly appreciate you and your gentle spirit while speaking the truth in love.

[@KarynWilburn]

“Don’t mistake God’s love and grace for the false belief that He affirms and celebrates sin.” ~Shane Pruitt

[@Angel-cu5mf]

Props to Sean for being courageous to speak the truth scripturally and call out these fallacies. It's the most loving thing to do when people are in error, and leading others astray

[@cliffcarbone555]

The little boy suffering in a closet of self hatred and shame may not agree with your conclusion here.

[@Itsme-ts2nj]

@@cliffcarbone555 Lies are never the right way to handle things.

[@adrianruiz6091]

@@cliffcarbone555 It is a sad state that of self oppression. Come all who are weary and you will find rest. Culture is more accepting to LGBT community than the what the Bible truly states because it is an issue of pride. If the Lord touches your heart, he will transform you for HIS GLORY. Not to be made socially acceptable. The first step in following Christ is repentance and then follows baptism for the forgiveness of your sins to be made a new creature... the burial of the old man. You must recognize that you are fallen from grace before reaching towards it. Then comes the most beautiful confirmation of your existence in Christ. Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Hallelujah! He radically transforms you and what you used to be a slave to and like you begin to detest and rebuke. And then you live your life in an ever growing relationship with the Lord. Rejoice for he is near! God bless

[@CJ-oc2ff]

@@adrianruiz6091 60 years ago people were using the Bible to justify segregation and condemn interracial marriage. How many Christians still hold this view? How many people will still hold the anti-LGBT view in another 60 years? Jesus was all about sticking up for the oppressed and overthrowing religious authority and rigid interpretation of scripture. I would be careful not to become a modern day pharisee.

[@adrianruiz6091]

@@CJ-oc2ff Who is talking about segregation? Who is is stating that anyone isn't welcome? The Bible is the foundation of our faith. Either you believe in the whole of it or not at all, no nitpicking and personalizing allowed. Hot or cold... As far as I am concerned, taking a stance for what is right in the precepts given by God almighty in his word is always going to cause discomfort to the flesh. We are meant to be witnesses and be persecuted for speaking the truth. I know that this is a "progressive" age for all sorts of thinking and philosophy. My argument is simply to surrender to what scripture says about everything. Period. I didn't write the Bible. But I do believe in all of it. People can come with all sorts of distortion to justify their Ego. That's why we are so divided. If I saw you on the street I wouldn't treat you any differently, I would hang eat and talk. Pray for each other and move on.. But don't impose human philosophy on the word of God and try to sell it. Don't be deceived for in the last days everything good shall be called wicked and vice versa. The fact that people pay more attention to apologetics instead of reading the word and letting Him transform every aspect of your life is a clear indication of prideful thinking. Well you could state all sorts of arguments against fascist, genocidal, hypocritical concepts in the Bible but when the Truth reveals Himself in your life through the Holy Spirit, you realize that your pride gets in the way of surrender to Christ. We all fall short. So, READ the word (not just verses), and whatever frustrations and battles you you have with his word, talk to Him about and let Him reveal it to you. That's what millions of people have experienced when they surrender. -whoever CHOOSES to hold on to their life will lose it, but for those who give up their life will sure gain it. Jesus God bless and much love,

[@idnb70]

I have so much respect for Dr. McDowell. My heart is burdened for Colby and anyone who sits under his false teaching. He needs prayer.

[@karenpennington5073]

Exactly! Either you believe in the Bible’s TRUTH,or not. You can’t pick and choose the word of GOD.God destroyed Sodom and G.

[@Obscuredbywinds]

my heart is burdened for your detachment from reality

[@cathyphillips9120]

Sean keeps returning to the bible for truth. Colby keeps returning to his feelings. We should feel love and compassion towards LGBT persons, but we need to gently nudge them towards God's loving and perfect truth.

[@Obscuredbywinds]

@@cathyphillips9120 that’s ironic because you have no access to truth. the bible isn’t truth. you believe in the bible because of your feelings and wishful thinking nothing more

[@judethree2747]

@@Obscuredbywinds No. We believe the bible despite our feelings, because it is the word of God.

[@coffeytnmilk7]

Sean, you are so wise in your answers and I appreciate how loving you are to those who believe differently from you.

[@MetroConservativeMedia]

Colby knows his theology is wrong. But he prefers ambiguity because it’s nice. That’s why it takes so much for him to respond to a simple question.

[@shawnboahene5231]

This and that’s what progressive Christianity thrives on is ambiguity. The more lost you are the more enlightened you appear in their circles

[@reubenchancc]

Great, enlightening and civil conversation. Didn’t think this was possible anymore. Will come back to learn more.

[@xstatic-ow5mz]

This video is clearly bigoted

[@saskiascott8181]

@@xstatic-ow5mz lol

[@markshaneh]

@@xstatic-ow5mz yes I also found Colby to be arrogant by not answering questions straight on and as you rightly point out bigoted .

[@annamccarthy9355]

Thank you Sean for being so clear with your responses, and for continually leaning back on scripture. "Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness." As much as I get a bit angry at Colby's beliefs, I hope he finds the Truth and starts speaking it at his church.

[@desnock]

And I can see Colby's work of the Holy Spirit bring Sean closer to Christ. Sean is teachable, and a good example to those who appreciate him. I definitely get angry at those who even Sean points out (who claim they are believers) ignorant of the faith they so glibly hold onto false dogma over.

[@Roescoe]

Colby is definitely a wolf in sheep's clothing. Especially when he doesn't just say no to incest. I saw that as an opening of "I would change my mind if the culture promoted it." Really not a good place to be in, when the culture informs your theological positions, not the Word of God.

[@MindzEyz]

When my parents purchased a car for me as a "gift" as a teen, there were expectations that came with that. The primary one was responsibility. I couldn't go out and drive 100 mph whenever I want, not change the oil, and abuse that freedom, or I would either lose it, injury or kill myself or others, or go to jail. There was 1 thing that could be done with it in a very specific way. ALL other ways increased the possibility of it not ending well. I may be reading Colby incorrectly, but he seems to believe that receiving a "gift" assumes that we can do whatever we want without regard to the gift's intent or any related contrary consequences... and I agree with the other commenters on the point of "I have to see your argument in the bible"...

[@lilyatangcho]

Well put

[@Danhartfamily]

Great analogy!

[@WendyWzOpinion]

Well said! I often wonder why the conversation doesn’t include a look at the consequences related to any activity that contradicts instructions in the Bible. 🤔

[@desnock]

what might be interesting is applying it to your pride and arrogance that you've got the experience with the gift. when you use it to lord it over others, you've lost the point.

[@hhstark8663]

​@@desnock What would you tell me if I said the following? _"I want to marry my sister, and if you don´t affirm my incestuos marriage, then you are intolerant and un-loving and an incestuo-phobe and go against my incestuos-rights"_

[@anahills3836]

Thanks. It was so nice to see two people discuss an important issue from opposite sides in a calm, loving and respectful manner. It's so much easier to learn from this kind of discussion than from one in which people are just putting each other down and trying to make themselves look good. We need more discussions like this.

[@rosemaze5401]

Interesting conversation and I’m listening to both sides in good faith but I’m cringing at 1:23:00 ? Colby said that if Sean ends up being right than that’s a God Colby wants nothing to do with. Eek regardless of what you believe I think we should all accept God for who He is even if we got Him wrong on a few things. Unfortunately, I think that says it right there. Colby can only love a God that matches his own ideas.

[@desnock]

Not what he was saying, and your own bias may be at play here. What he's saying (and traditional belief systems concur) is that God must inherently be consistent and not capricious. Colby is saying that the God some folks in Sean's camp creates is capricious and inconsistent. IT was his nice way of not confronting his problem with Sean's theology. We all choose "our own ideas" in what we agree to be a part of religiously and otherwise. Be careful you're ignoring the universal truth that we all choose.

[@kimberlyccrn]

Sean, your communication skills are top notch. I love the way you closed this.

[@adeolabode-odeyemi7447]

Wow! Awesome communication. Thank you both so much for coming together to do this . Dr. McDowell thank you for your graciousness in dealing with this topic and staying true to scripture , Pastor Colby God bless your heart 🥰🙏🏽. I pray God will reward you both for your labour of love. Amen Now to my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, I don’t know about you but on watching this video , it became even more apparent to me that we need to really pray for affirming people like Pastor Colby. Judging by his stand (nothing scriptural to stand upon) , making statements like the God who judges sin or who stands by His word about same sex relationship is the “God that Jesus came to move us away from “ , shows that they actually have misunderstood the word of God or have created a version God that suits their own beliefs. . It’s interesting to see exactly what Pastor Sean was saying about the knowledge of the truth that sets us free from shame - not the sort of “truth” Pastor Colby is preaching . Not only is it not truth - he is not able to look straight into the camera boldly with his stand , he dodged every answer with preambles and nothing was scripture based . My heart was really bleeding for him even when he believed he would be commended at the pearly gate . His doctrine is so flawed and I’m thinking . Lord he needs to know you . He cannot imagine incest and he will sit the person down to show them scripture, yet he has chosen not to see same scripture when it comes to the LGBT. If you are reading this , kindly pray this prayer for Pastor Colby and everyone who holds these thoughts in the body of Christ . I am also praying for myself that God will open my eyes to any/every blind spot I may be unaware of . Satan is such a deceiver and it’s sad to see how people are so easily deceived . Lord have mercy on us 🙌🏾🙏🏽 I pray for you Pastor Colby .. with this scripture “that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,” ‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:17-20‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

[@4thbrooker]

Colby did not say that Jesus came to move us away from the God who judges sin or who stands by His word. You quite literally do not understand anything Colby said if this is one of the conclusions you came away with.

[@laever1804]

I read your entire post. I agree with your assessment. I did not hear the statement you attributed to Colby, however, i have not yet finished the video. Thank you for your thoughtful post and scriptually sound statements.

[@lauramcniel3305]

Colby seems to be in pain. He has such compassion and love for the LGBT that he forgets God's love is even greater. The enemy has gotten a foothold here, let us all pray for Colby.

[@jjean9298]

This was powerful! Thank you to you both for lovingly listening to one another. In order to strengthen our faith, we must be open to hearing other ideas. Our small group is studying other religions, and we talk about these kinds of things with our children often because we want them to question, explore, and ultimately build a strong foundation scripturally that is their own, not just handed down from us. We cannot do that if we only stay in our echo chambers. I've been swirling around all day what Colby said about being free from shame, of not knowing what is good and evil before eating from the forbidden tree. I wish there were more opportunities from people on all sides of the religious and political tables to hear from one another, to truly listen and understand, so that we can love one another well. Ultimately, I believe God's Word to be holy and timeless, straight from Him, so I believe it and trust it. I know He has what's best for me! Thanks, gentlemen. Thank you so much for modeling civil discourse.

[@SeanMcDowell]

I’m glad it was helpful!

[@karenbryan7100]

Mr McDowell, this was fabulous. I love the presentation and I am on your side completely with this, however I love the allowance you gave for this gentleman to express his thoughts. I will be praying for God to gently open his eyes and lead him completely to the Word as it was written for each of us to read and trust.

[@vasignature]

Our thoughts and feelings do not supersede God‘s word. Period.

[@Elitynski]

That's absolutely true - we need to start that God and his word are the absolutes. We can then work from there - but we also need to respond to the LGBTQ community with love and compassion instead of taking the heavy hand right off the bat.

[@vasignature]

@@Elitynski I agree 100% We must show mercy and compassion for everyone and not just to the gay community. However, we should be direct and not be wishy washy with the word of God entertaining “progressive” thinking, which is contrary to the word. The commands are clear and not difficult to interpret. What did Jesus tell the prostitute after showing her mercy? - “Go and SIN NO MORE” [Jn 8:11] Repentance (turning away from sin and then turning to God’s commandments) should follow after we are forgiven. Peace and blessings.

[@kstevenson3504]

@@vasignature Nice comments Victor, I hope some gay person benefits from your love and compassion. You are quite handsome too. :D Its not easy having SSA, living according to a traditional Christian ethic and not having support. Our faithful brothers and sisters need our help. It is true we need more compassion period, but this is a much neglected group--faithful LGBTQ Christians.

[@MAK0517]

I am watching this a year later. The confidence Sean has with his understanding of the Bible and Theology and his peace and assurance of what he believes and stands for is such a huge contrast with Colby. Colby just shows a lot of stress and anxiety when trying to put his view and his theology with how it matches up with the Bible. To me that is very telling.

[@HillaryCraig]

This was an interesting discussion. Sean, I think you did very well in being respectful and truthful. Feelings are deceptive and ultimately the Bible and its authority is the bottom line.

[@trellusg]

In that case, it’s not hard for rational people to decide how to come down on this: there’s zero rationale to submit to an ancient document that hasn’t been updated in almost 2,000 years simply because there’s some inherited belief that it contains the sealed and unchanging truths for the rest of eternity. That’s called bondage. If feelings are deceptive, why is the entire basis for modern Christianity based on feelings and not facts?

[@stephaniedavis3567]

Very interesting perspective on the bait and switch. Some truth in that for sure, however , we had a similar experience within the church. In pre-marital counseling , the pastor addressed my husbands divorce. It was not a biblical divorce. So Gods word would say , he should not remarry . We could argue with the pastor on that point, but the argument would have had to been with Gods word. Later , after we married he wouldn’t be a deacon at the church because of the divorce. We were sorrowed for years , but also had to honor the position of Gods word and the pastor having a strong position. The church should not have to hide their position on standards . But the church also should not change a position to accommodate a situation outside of Gods word . Gods word is the standard.

[@desnock]

Except it of course should change if it's wrong. Like with slavery. So the question is where are the standards based, and arguing that any particular sect has it right is contradicted by the hundreds of other sects who think THEY have it right. There is no Scriptural basis for your argument, thus your church can't use God's word for its unfortunately anti-Christian actions. All due respect, divorce is certainly permitted, and it's the SECT that has decided on how to apply that, and many MANY sects disagree with your sect's vision. We have to be humble, not submissive to ignorance.

[@tatimiracy]

@@desnock I don't think you know scripture 😔

[@tatimiracy]

What a great story. The word of God is sufficient for us!

[@desnock]

@@tatimiracy My education in divinity would contradict your belief. This is the problem with your feelings and bias when they don't coincide with reality. I think you are projecting your ignorance of scripture.

[@TheophilusMutsigwa]

@@desnock The question is, does the Bible have an 'acceptable divorce' and 'unacceptable' one? If it does, then honor that which has been written.

[@MCrCh]

I really admire you Sean, for the way you accurately hit the right , clear biblical answers on issues that are obviously not according to God's primary, original design , twisted by men who thought they knew better for pride, selfish reasons/desires/gains.

[@Butterflies-are-free]

Wow! Colby! 💕♥️💕 thank you so much for sharing what is my also my heart!

[@ozzyb6595]

Kudos to Sean for his patience. Anyone can interpret the Bible however they want. But if 90%(hypothetically) say that an answer is blank. Then maybe the answer could be that. I think Paul and Jesus were clear on the standing on marriage.

[@AndrewLoui]

Ephesians 6:12 “For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.” God love ALL humans, he loathes anti-humanity organizations (Romans 1:26-32) These organizations, such as Sodom, Nazi, CCP, drug cartels, human traffickers, organ harvesters, genocide performers, are the true meanings of “men committed shameful acts with other men.” Don’t take Romans 1:26-27 out of context and use it to attack gay people. It has nothing to do with gays. LGBTQ+ are humans. Churches attack them are anti-humanity organizations too. Don’t be fooled by Satan’s teachings and explanations. He wants to turn churches into anti-humanity organizations for sure. In Christianity, marriage is holy. It’s a spiritual covenant between two souls. It’s sad to see churches today define marriage as physically as a union between a male body and a female body adopted from unbelievers.

[@ozzyb6595]

@@AndrewLoui nah fam. Marriage is described between Man and Woman. ““Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that he who created them in the beginning made them male and female, and he also said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’?” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭19:4-5‬ ‭CSB‬‬ Those are Jesus words. Jesus also described his relationship with the church as him the groom and the church his bride. Our sex is designed to what God meant in his order. Not our order. “All” things were made through him and for him. God has a design for how sex and marriage are suppose to correlate to a much greater spectrum of his relationship with humanity. I get that it hurts to know that your desires (not yours specifically) are not considered holy by Gods original design of man and woman. There’s order in Gods house. Whether we like his rules or not. We have to trust God that he has our best interest at heart. In addition I say we shouldn’t grasp to our earthly roles here. Even marriage can become an idol to many. It makes me wonder why then Paul said that it’s better to be single to focus on God more on this earth. Everything we do is suppose to bring glory to God. We don’t have to agree with everything that God makes clear about our bodies, our wants and desires. When we are the owners of the house (the universe) then our rules go. But nothing in this earth is truly ours. Everything even our bodies belong to God. This is coming from a former atheist and person who also use to preach love is love. To allow people to have sex with whoever they want and please. Anything goes. But God had renewed my mind upon salvation. Jesus has shown me the errors of my worldly ways. The world preaches everything against Christ. That’s why Christians are the most persecuted people group in the world. I count everything a loss for Christ. I get that you may not agree with me and I respect that. But God is a God of Order and Design. He designed something one way. Who are we to try and make it crooked ? And not just pertaining to same sex. It’s anything. Anything we touch we pervert. We seek to please our own desires. It doesn’t matter what it is. Don’t follow your heart because our hearts are wicked and they are deceitful. Our hearts get us into many of the problems we are then trying to get out of. Rely on what the scriptures say. Let it speak for itself in what the author is trying to convey. Don’t rely on others to tell you what it says.

[@AndrewLoui]

@@ozzyb6595 keep following Satan’s false doctrines to focus on the physical realm, instead of the spiritual realm. Keep attacking innocent human beings, instead of evil organizations. You surely would sink further.

[@scotgorham]

Andrew Lou man can talk and explain away man's sin and deceptions as the word says, the heart of man is deceitful above all things , the new age guy, has been taken into the wide way,Jesus spoke of the narrow way ,the gate in which to enter through.......... The new age guy is trying hard to sugar coat human desire ,his explanation comes from Pan .... you figure it out brother ...... Multiple scenarios, no sin involved. If a man says there is no sin in him then ,that man is a liar and the truth is not in him .........

[@ozzyb6595]

@@AndrewLoui I’m not attacking anyone. The Bible is offensive to everyone. I’m part of the everyone. You my brother are following a belief that the Bible is clear on when it speaks about same sex relationships. Pagans practiced immoral sexual acts. Even God ordained the Jews to live differently than gentiles. It’s part of his design. Like I said you don’t have to agree on everything with God but trust him that he only wants what’s best for you. What he says goes. Not what you say goes. All of us are born fallen. Also in regards to Romans 1. It’s clear when it says that men were inflamed to do shameless acts with one another. Similar to the women. But there’s more in the text. Everyone gets hung up on the same sex part. There’s much more in that text which is trying to show us that not just one kind of people but those who also “They are filled with all unrighteousness, evil, greed, and wickedness. They are full of envy, murder, quarrels, deceit, and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, arrogant, proud, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, senseless, untrustworthy, unloving, and unmerciful. Although they know God’s just sentence - that those who practice such things deserve to die  - they not only do them, but even applaud others who practice them.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:29-32‬ ‭CSB‬‬ There’s so much more in the text. But it’s clear that no one is safe. Lol even me. Which is why we all need the grace of God. You call this the belief of Satan. But truly you are calling Gods order evil. Just because it isn’t convenient or to our liking. I beg you to please give God humility and ask yourself. Do I believe what I believe because it fits my wants and desires or does it fit Gods wants and desires ? Because the writings are 100% clear of what it’s stating on the topic of marriage and same sex acts. Notice how I didn’t say attraction. I’m saying actions. We are all lustful. We must not give ourselves up to a depraved mind as Romans speaks about. We must deny our flesh. I hope you show God humility to crucify your flesh and see that he’s a just God of order and design. In addition you have the wrong definition of what verse 27 is talking about. Look at the prior verse. “For this reason God delivered them over to disgraceful passions. Their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. The men in the same way also left natural relations with women and were inflamed in their lust for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the appropriate penalty of their error.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:26-27‬ ‭CSB‬ The topic in these two verses is sexual relations. It isn’t talking about human trafficking, drug cartels. All of course are bad things humans do. In this text it’s talking about “Sexual Relations”. The text is clearly giving a parallel to what the women are doing. So are the men. And that these actions are lustful. It’s clear what the text says about same sex relations. Don’t add to the text what it isn’t saying because that’s how we end up with prosperity preachers, with slave approving Christian’s, with a immoral view of Gods design for our world. Perhaps it’s not what you want to see but the text is sharply clear here. I’m sorry if you’ve been bashed before, for same sex attractions if that’s you. I’m sorry no one who claimed to be Christian loved you and accepted you for being Gay or Lesbian or trans. It’s a lot to go through. But the Bible offends you just as much as it offends me. For that I’m grateful. Because God is honest enough to tell me the things I don’t wanna accept. I need someone to tell me I’m wrong and my morality is immoral. The path that Jesus said that leads to God is Narrow. It isn’t wide and crooked. It’s narrow and tight to walk on. I have things I struggle with. So do my fellow believers. But I pray again for you to ask yourself the question. Are my beliefs for my comfort and desires or do they align with what scripture says. (Not adding more to what it says. Just clearly to what it says)

[@stevenwithav5169]

Great dialogue. I'm excited to see the next video with Sean and Colby. I would really like to see a conversation on the topic of truth. I think that's one of the fundamental issues that creates the differences in this topic. What makes me say that is how Colby responds to questions. It gives me the sense that he sees truth as subjective to the individual based on how he answered a few questions like the question of how marriage is defined. He never actually gave a definite answer but it seems like his answer was more subjective to each person rather that an all encompassing definition applicable to all peoples whereas Sean gives more definite absolute truth types of answers that seem to be applicable to all people. I think this would make for a very interesting conversation. I love you both.

[@TheseVideosAreCrap]

I am very interested in what, where and who Colby would say is the source of authority. I think it is telling that Sean’s responses were rooted in scripture and the design God gave us as the authority, and Colby referenced culture, feelings and experience much more as I would interpret as his source of authority.

[@4thbrooker]

Colby would say God is the ultimate source of authority. He is a Christian, after all. The problem is that we are all subjective, fallible, biased beings. The *ONLY* way we interface and interact with scripture, God, and the Holy Spirit is *THROUGH* this lens. Colby's responses are also rooted in scripture, but you rightly judge that they aren't *solely* rooted in scripture. And this is a wise thing to do since we do not have the ability to determine necessarily that any one person has the perfect interpretation of scripture. Colby would err on the side of relationship and experience rather than dogmatic claims based on our interpretations of scripture. Why? Because God created us as relationship beings and calls us to be loving to one another. How do we know if we're being loving? We ask people if they feel loved. You can not separate yourself from your feelings. Everyone is driven by their feelings and desires.

[@lastofthemohicans1]

I agree. All progressives will have a similar response

[@francandsex8793]

Did God die? How does he speak today away from the book written ages ago?

[@4thbrooker]

@Angelina DeSanto what are you talking about?

[@francandsex8793]

@Angelina DeSanto I can see faith alive but that has nothing to do with God. I see many people believing in all sorts of things and entities and getting miraculous..... This doesn't prove God

[@laughsalot6847]

I love this conversation, I love the respectful debate. I also see Colby's compassionate heart! God knows all our hearts. God bless you all!

[@silvers_ink]

It doesn't matter if we are compassionate because if we are promoting ideas that are contrary to God's word then we are an enemy of God! No amount of compassion in one's heart can change that. Colby is leading people to hell and he will have to answer for it

[@laughsalot6847]

I have said this many times in comments, the bible has been translated thousands of times. The word gay or homosexual did not even exist in those times. And was not even put into our Bibles until 1946. I have spent years translating the bible. My family is from Greece. The original word used by Paul was(I will spell them in English not Greek for you) " arsenokitai." This word has been compared to many writings before and after the bible was written. In all those writings when arsenokitai is used it is not referring to homosexuality, it's referring to molestation, sexual assault, abuse of some form. For example, you can find the word used in ancient Greek writings about the sins of the Gods, like when they talk about Zeus raping a young boy. We have many ancient texts using this word, non of them refer to the word as it was translated into English thousands of years later. Historically the original word "arsenokitai" never meant homosexual, it meant forced upon, assault of a sexual nature. Back in the days Paul was writing, young boys were being sold to people, most of them had power of some sort, or money, to be used for sexual purposes. It was a huge problem that Paul was addressing and condemning. This is the truth, and something Paul clearly would have felt strong about, and would have been against. So Cody is not leading anyone astray, he has done his homework, and obviously spent the time translating the bible as I have. It's actually an amazing thing to do for yourself. Finding out what the bible actually says, not just trusting one of the thousands of translations. Over all, the translations we use today are mostly accurate, but some things were clearly translated wrong, and changed the meanings of the original writings, this being one of those things, and a big thing in my opinion.

[@michaelmarshall9132]

You're right God does know our hearts and colbys couldn't be further from God if he tried. He's just admitted that he doesn't want to serve a God with the values that God has given us . Why because it doesn't fit with his worldy life style .

[@michaelmarshall9132]

@@laughsalot6847 it clearly states that man shall not lay with man as he would a woman . Same meaning but like you said there was no such words in those days

[@silvers_ink]

@@michaelmarshall9132 Exactly! He's more concerned with not wanting to give up the sinful desires of the flesh. And I don't think it's compassionate or loving at all to affirm someone's sin, especially someone who's supposed to be a pastor.

[@OPINIONESconVictorManuel]

I saw this quote on the wall of a church building over 40 years back and it read, “𝙏𝙝𝙚 𝘽𝙞𝙗𝙡𝙚 𝙖𝙨 𝙞𝙩 𝙞𝙨, 𝙩𝙤 𝙈𝙚𝙣 𝙖𝙨 𝙩𝙝𝙚𝙮 𝙖𝙧𝙚." It is short, but quite insightful! With all do respect to Colby, God does NOT allow for men to ‘edit’ his Word, for his Word is immutable. 2 Peter 1:20,21 attests that, “knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's OWN INTERPRETATION . For no prophecy was ever produced BY THE WILL OF MEN, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.” (emphasis added). That being said, people, more than ever, are misinterpreting the message of the Bible to accommodate it to their own views against moral values. An honest believer will be confronted and convicted by the Holy Spirit when behaving contrary to God’s will, and his Word! He will NOT interpret it contrary to its message! What other interpretation to the term ‘𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙬𝙧𝙖𝙩𝙝 𝙤𝙛 𝙂𝙤𝙙' when referring to the way God feel towards homosexual relationships? Colby mentions Romans 1 (verses 18-32), verses he does not want to discuss because such a passage Specifically declares that God abhors the sin of homosexuality… period!! No ifs or buts about it! It is Colby’s choice to misinterpret a sacred passage of God’s Word. As the quote read at the beginning, the BIBLE should be shared as it is, with no personal agenda that will twist its message; and so taught to all people in their current condition… thought process, biases, challenges, inner battles, values, experiences, sufferings, etc.

[@OPINIONESconVictorManuel]

“Why do you care what I think…?”, says Colby. But Colby: 1. If you claim to be a Christian, do you care about the well-being of others? You cannot love others as Jesus love other, specially those of the household of faith. A TRUE Christian will love others; that includes their spiritual and emotional wellbeing! 2. It is important, specially as a spiritual leader, to know what you think, for if you are preaching or teaching erroneous doctrines, you need to be advised of that; otherwise, you will be leading other into erroneous doctrines as well. 3. And, never, ever interpret the Bible to defend your own misconceptions, biases, ideologies, discriminations.

[@SavedSkeptic]

It’s only difficult to define something like marriage when you’re trying to dance around the truth. Kindly!

[@desnock]

No, it's difficult when one doesn't actually listen objectively to the point because one has their own confirmation biases. Kindly :)

[@SavedSkeptic]

@@desnock no amount of listening objectively is going to change the objective definition of marriage.

[@desnock]

@@SavedSkeptic Except there is no objective definition of marriage, which is entrenched in subjective perspective. Are you aware of what a skeptic is?

[@SavedSkeptic]

@@desnock There is only one true definition of marriage and it is God’s definition. Do you find it odd that exactly 2,000 years after Christ died for our sins that the most important concept (marriage) that gives us a glimpse into God’s true Trinitarian nature, is being destroyed by those who claim to be Christians. The church is the Bride of Christ and the Father has given us to Him. Christ then comes into us through the Holy Spirit. Don’t you see that an attack on the foundation of marriage is a direct assault on the foundation of Christianity.

[@desnock]

@@SavedSkeptic That is only one dogmatic belief, none of which is God's definition, but man's definition and has changed over the past 2000 years. Polygamy was present in Christ's time, but there was no indication He opposed it. Gay people existed in Christ's time, but there zero indication that He opposed their commitment to each other. Things like fornication and such were frowned upon, but that would have been with anyone (heterosexually or homosexually inclined, monogamously or polygamously inclined). Trinitarianism is just one belief of many in the Church and hardly universal. The Church is the Bride of Christ, but contains men, so are you suggesting Christ is a homosexual (or bisexual)? That would have to be your conclusion if you're going to take that tack (and not the more metaphorical reality vs the textualism that is severely uneducated Scripturally). Do I see that people honor commitment and trust and fidelity to one another as being an attack on the foundation? No, I see it as an expression of it. IT may be an "attack" on your Pharisee's view of religion, but it's well in line with the foundation of Christ's ministry. Again, are you aware of what a skeptic is? I suggest you look it up, and see how your moniker is a bit of any oxymoron. I'm just pointing out the irony of your moniker and how you are not practicing skepticism. You're inferring something that is demonstrably not the case on any number of levels, so if you're going to be a skeptic, start with the log in your own eye, respectfully!

[@shammahpeters586]

But what's the reason for the conversation if you guys just keep articulating to yourselves the differences we already know you have, without digging into the 'why' for these differences and exploring scripture? Why do you both see the scriptures differently? How does one or the other interpret scriptures; how does he arrive at its interpretation with the help of the Holyspirit? What even is the person of the HolySpirit like to the other? Honestly these were the kind of questions I was expecting

[@saskiascott8181]

They covered a lot of this stuff in their first discussion, which was also really good

[@desnock]

The reason for the conversation is that we may not see things we might otherwise not if we don't engage with people who are not in our bubble. It's important that we all challenge our kneejerkism, right?

[@jslev78963]

Though I don’t understand “non answers” of the progressive side, I appreciate Sean’s style of engagement. Way to go man.

[@robertobrooks7972]

Sean, bless you man, you do have much patience.

[@JuliaCloonan]

That was such a great conversation!!! Thank you for engaging these topics!! It’s so valuable in our culture that fights and divides.

[@dawnchrisostom5817]

I think this is the only Sean McDowell video that has left me completely empty and where I was before I started listening. Feelings really lead us on our own path. Living free allows that all things may be permissible, yet not all things are beneficial in building up the body of Christ.

[@maleanewborn9073]

Feelings can be our ultimate enemy sometimes. Which is why in jeremiah it says the heart is deceitful above all else, who can know it? We have to read the word and pray and ask for HIS help and wisdom to understand His will. You can never trust men only.

[@jasonwallace5953]

Then do you have a problem when feelings lead us down a path with negative consequence? I may feel like drinking poison taste good but wouldn’t I want someone to limit that freedom and protect me?

[@071903ma]

Great video Sean, really like the topic and very interesting to hear Colby perspectives on the Bible and how he reads and understands it. Thank you for making these types of discussions enjoyable to listen too.

[@Pawsforthought222]

As christians,we are told the danger of adding to ,or taking from the bible,it is a serious sin,so l fear for Colby trying to change Gods clear commands against the LGBT Lifestyle. I choose the bible every time. Its a narrow path,but leads to life.

[@denali9643]

Sean is graciously wise to let Colby talk at length, because the more he speaks, the more untenable and unanchored his thoughts are.

[@OldThingsPassAway]

Hi, Sean. Say, just wanted to say I thought the video ended with a great climactic finish. Your point on what we are Free to DO was one that really strikes a chord with me. Thanks for the video, just like all your other videos. You always have such great content and are not afraid to go outside of the echo chamber, which is more than I can say for a lot of KZbin channels. Blessings!

[@bnewman2544]

So glad one of the end points was made: there is no freedom without limitations and boundaries. How true. The ultimate authority of setting boundaries is not government, society, our work place, even our feelings - it is our Creator.

[@wmperkins25]

I'm wondering if Colby has ever heard of the many men and women who have come out of homosexuality, who are living lives set free of homosexual desire and are married (and not forced to do so ) or who are single but no longer desire same sex relationships?

[@PotatoPirate123]

You don't know that they no longer desire it though, do you. If they live in fear then of course they have a reason to claim that they are 'fixed'

[@leaglennon573]

As a Mom of a precious son who is openly homosexual I appreciate kind conversations not rooted in fear

[@stevonius225]

Those conversations will absolutely change to fear as soon as soon as your son wants more than that church is will to accept...

[@desnock]

Amen, Lea. You of course will get all kinds of faux-Christians who Christ would call evildoers, so just filter out their noise, they have their own crosses to bear.

[@mauigh89]

Please don't mistaken fear for truth. Truth forces repentance or stubbornness which is the sin of idolatry and rebellion witchcraft.

[@desnock]

@@mauigh89 The cult of religion indeed idolizes its dogma over Christ, and why Christ called them evildoers then (and now). No magical thinking necessary - the murder, torture, sexual abuse of children and greed show they aren't Godly, they only sell fear (of missing out on a reward or an eternal punishment). Christ said to judge a tree by its fruit, rotten fruit cannot come from a good tree. Folks gotta grow up, and learn to critically think and read.

[@mauigh89]

@@desnock Dogma is the foundation of the historic Christian faith. Your hang up with this dogma(which is irrefutable) is the foundation if your folly. "...because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools,.." Romans 1:21‭-‬22 NKJV

[@carolinem1698]

Sean is really good at these kinds of respectful conversations. Good job!

[@jenrob5938]

Sean you are an incredible example of what a Christian should be. I am a new Christian and I am so happy these conversations are happening. This is how we bring people together and help one another become better people. We need to support one another. God bless!

[@darkclouds09]

A "new" christian? What does that mean?

[@darthhobbit69]

@@darkclouds09 I'm a new Christian too, a born again Christian. I used to be an atheist but thankfully my heart soul and mind is now open to following Christ.

[@darkclouds09]

@@darthhobbit69 You were an atheist? What makes you think you were an atheist? Why did you change?

[@brettking1014]

I’m glad Colby was willing to talk about this, and it was a very loving conversation. I couldn’t help but notice, though, just how confident Sean was in comparison. Colby seemed unsure of his position. I pray God helps him with what seems to me as a difficult struggle for him.