Lichtlaerm Audio Prometheus vs Diezel Herbert, Orange Rockerverb & Dover DA50

[@lichtlaermaudio]

Super happy it doesn’t suck ❤️

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

It's as far away as it can be from sucking

[@NickySayahSina]

I don't have the amp, but I have Jarrod's from ToneWars ToneX capture (Lead1) and it's my favorite out of all the captures I have.

[@dasczwo]

i m so looking forward to the next trade show: i‘ll walk up to the booth of every major amp builder (engl, kettner, boogie…) and ask: „how does it make you feeell that YOU didnt come up with the idea to provide 9v power through the footswitch? so obvious…“ wanna get one. just to bring the light to my pedalboard and use as a beer stand. while playing thru a katana. kiddin. wonderful amp!

[@doctersound9630]

My ears are open listening in my Studio on amazing speakers, the Lichtlaerm Audio Prometheus - WINS - Mopped the floor with the Diezel Herbert, Rockerverb was quite nice still came in second, Dover was quite nice. I'm sold on the Lichtlaerm Audio Prometheus - I think you should have used the Lucifer Speaker... as well... just for kicks. I want to see the Lichtlaerm Audio Prometheus VS a Hughes and Kettner Triamp MK2 or 3! Please and Thank you. Great job @lichtlaermaudio

[@stephenrainaldi1483]

How do I order a Prometheus?

[@alfredodurango8868]

Mixing speakers and microphones is a crazy and exciting world, always more exciting than impulse responses.

[@nj1255]

The Prometheus has become my new dream amp. It just has the most perfect, gnarly and raw, but still refined, tone!

[@ylemp]

The mid cut on the Herbert sounds so so sweet. They were honestly a lot closer in sound than I thought they’d be. With the mid cut there wasn’t a massive difference. It makes sense that they are your two favorites.

[@michlshrudz3850]

The Lichtlärm reminds me quite a lot of my Redstuff Thor. The clarity and definition sounds great

[@christophgrubor7365]

I really really love the DIEZEL grunt, that no other amps do so well. But, the Prometheus has a great character, in comparison. I really love that, too. Oh my gosh, there is no way for me to put one over the other.

[@clairez666]

I LOVE your comparison videos btw! This one was tough but Lichtlaerm Audio's Prometheus won the round - what a BEAST! I'm a Diezel D-Moll gal myself... would be great to see it go head to head the Prometheus! 💜💜💜

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

Oh nice! So you got that D-Moll! I may need to do a dedicated D-Moll video at some stage!

[@clairez666]

@@TheOtherJohnBrowne Yes please!!! More D-Moll viddies would be greatly appreciated!! Post script - the headphone remnant on your skull was uber cute btw heee!

[@riverstone5994]

I love the presentness of the mids on the chords on the Prometheus. I love the low end on the Herbert and miss it when it’s gone

[@riverstone5994]

Gotta have both I guess 🤷

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

Yes

[@Shaunquirk89]

I actually love the rockerverb

[@doctersound9630]

My ears are open listening in my Studio on amazing speakers, the Lichtlaerm Audio Prometheus - WINS - Mopped the floor with the Diezel Herbert, Rockerverb was quite nice still came in second, Dover was quite nice. I'm sold on the Lichtlaerm Audio Prometheus - I think you should have used the Lucifer Speaker... as well... just for kicks. I wan to see the Lichtlaerm Audio Prometheus VS a Hughes and Kettner Triamp MK2 or 3! Please and Thank you.

[@lichtlaermaudio]

Thanks, doc! Love the Triamps - great amps!

[@Greg25815]

I like this format & I enjoy it. Please do Rockeverb video. Good job.

[@R3CT0-CC]

The Prometheus really nails the post hardcore/metalcore tone so effortlessly. I hope it becomes popular so the cost can come down on them to something more affordable.

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

Effortless really nails the amp. It plays so easily

[@lichtlaermaudio]

Thanks man! We actually put the price as low as we could: it’s pretty much in the same range as a lot of standard production amps (the rockerverb is just marginally cheaper, a Dual Rec is 1k more for example). I’d be open to do bigger runs for a more affordable price but would never cheap out on stuff like transformers, etc. - right now I think it’s actually one of the more affordable boutique, hand-wired amps - especially given the feature set 🙂

[@R3CT0-CC]

@@lichtlaermaudio Most welcome! It's a fantastic amp that seems nearly impossible to get a bad sound out of. Yeah totally get the pricing, I'm actually amazed someone put in the amount of effort for a new tube amp that's not just a simple clone/variant when the gear market is leaning heavily into digital, it's awesome to see! Don't mind me, I'm Australian so pretty much anything in the 3k+ usd range that we need to self import usually comes out to house deposit levels of money after currency conversion, shipping, tax, duties etc. Was commenting on hoping that you guys could get get production volume up so suppliers here could order in relative bulk so we could get our hands on one :)

[@Shadowsreach1]

wow both sound killer! To find a favorite would be a hard decision to make. I lean to the Prometheus, however the Diezel does have a different growl to it. Killer comparison!

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

Thank you!

[@fekiee]

Please do all those ideas you mentioned, I have the popcorn ready and if not enough will get more so

[@ThatMFShawnzy]

Prometheus sounds very good, but I think I’m a fan of the Diezel. I like that it has a great chug and the presence isn’t too in your face. But I’d own both tbh lol

[@EBcobhc81]

I like both. The diezel definitely needed the boost whereas the Prometheus doesnt seem to need it, but sounds good with it. I would like to see a video with the orange amp!

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

Totally agree

[@zanthraxus]

Nothing but great sounds there - I have to give it to the Herbert though. To me a bit less presence is actually preferable - and of course there is the fat tone of the Herbert. Also the Herbert's cleans stood out to me (which surprised me a bit to be honest) As for the format - it's only one impression/data point but it somehow came across a bit more lively tonewise like this though I'd go with whatever works better for recording. Cheers! Fantastic as usual!

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

Thanks man! I really appreciate the feedback

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

And yes! The Herberts cleans and crunches were outstanding to me

[@thorggernaut3081]

I loved both so in the end I would literally get which ever one is more affordable(they are both Uber expensive boutique amps but worth every penny)

[@needsLITHIUM]

With the boost, they sound even MORE similar, see?

[@vogtgrant1]

Nice, I've been playing my Prometheus daily since I got it!

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

It's so sick

[@vogtgrant1]

Great video as always brother! Yes, it’s super sick such a fun and great sounding amp!

[@MingTian666]

see you at the guitar summit 🤘

[@alfredodurango8868]

prometeus and charvel good friends

[@callenmcclusky4383]

Prometheus sounds amazing!!! I’m stoked lol can’t wait to get my email that my turns coming up lol 😂

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

Good choice

[@lichtlaermaudio]

🔥

[@millermonsterair]

16:30 yeah, so the orange rockerverb mkiii 50w is my DREAM AMP. ill never have it in real life. i cannot afford such a nice amp. that being said, the only place i would be able to have one, is in my dreams.

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

I hope you situation changes and you get your Rockerverb one day

[@millermonsterair]

@@TheOtherJohnBrowne well, that's the thing. It's not gonna change in a good way, when it does change. I feel like an ass for even saying this, but my health isn't great and has been getting worse and worse over the last 2yrs. Mostly my heart, but also a stomach thing I've been dealing with since I was younger.... so, yeah... only in my dreams. At least most guitar stores have one sitting around and I get to play on it, so I can always do that, until I can't physically do that any more either...

[@LuisMedinas]

I prefer the Diezel, it's more clear and less compressed. Plus I'm sure it has more headroom than the Prometheus but thats easier to feel in the room. Anyway you cannot get wrong with any of them. It would be interesting to compare the Herbert Mk3 with the Prometheus both without any boost and with boosts. The Mk3 is quiet different from the Mk1.

[@needsLITHIUM]

The Promethius sounds WAY better than the Herbert. The Herbert is more of a blending amp, based on my taste, and I've always liked the VH series from Diezel over the Herbert, but even the VH series is more of a blending amp. The best Killswitch Engage records were recorded blending a VH4 and a Laney Ironheart, IMO, and when I saw them live back in '05 at Ozzfest they sounded so much better, guitar tone wise, with that setup than when I saw them in 2023. IDK, maybe the fact I saw them in West Palm Beach, FL, in 2005, and in 2023 I saw them in Kent, WA, so the altitude and humidity were different, and let's be real, tube amps can be fickle with that kind of stuff. Also, it's worth noting that at different points, Jim Root of Slipknot was using a VH4 or a Herbert (or even a Friedman BE-OD 100) to blend with his two rockerverb amps live.

[@obestertomas]

amazing work man, and I have to say that I can hear clear difference when you mic up the cab vs using IR. I much prefer when you play with real mic and cab, it sounds like it should. now when I go back to listen to your old videos, for example vh4 vs herbert, your herbie doesn’t sound nearly as good as with real cab. maybe something about the IR… it just sounds 2D and papery on palm mutes, while with real cab it has more body and extra dimension, for lack of better word. I know it’s more difficult for you to produce videos with real cab, but I’ll say this - I’ll rather listen to your 1 video with real cab 10x times, because I dig it so much, that listen to 10 different videos with IR’s, knowing how good those amps must sound, but getting “meh” impression. sorry for the longer rant, but your content is amazing, and that’s why I bother to write something :) I mean it only as a constructive criticism.. love your work 😊

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

@@obestertomas I very much appreciate this comment, man! Thanks!

[@RequiemDead]

2nd batch gang, rise up!!! 🤘🙌

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

You're in for a treat

[@RequiemDead]

@@TheOtherJohnBrowne I am so excited, went with quad KT77's. You got your's dialed in brilliantly, love it!

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

@@RequiemDead Thank you! I love KT77s but mine is loaded with EL34s at the moment

[@avgruun2679]

Mine will come with 4xKT88 =) Fucking looking forward to have this monster!

[@RequiemDead]

@@avgruun2679 That's such a brutal set! I got that in my Bogner Uber Ultra and it is devastating!

[@stephenrainaldi1483]

John thanks for the shootout. Both amps sound great. I notice the Diezel has an upper mid nasal like quality. Not a knock on the Diezel, but I prefer the Prometheus. Are both worth having? The short answer = YES. The bad news, now I gotta find/buy a Prometheus.

[@deanopie4390]

Prometheus for the win

[@tacmason]

No, I like the Dover !Amazing !!!

[@metalfiend2112]

What power tubes were used here in the Herbert and in the Prometheus? The Herbert can accept many power tube configurations and combinations, for different sounds, tones, and power output. The Diezel Herbert is designed to be a little grindy and aggressive compared to the Diezel VH4. The Prometheus seemed deeper and fuller, and a little more refined, the Herbert seemed more aggressive. Prometheus has some kt88 s in the power tubes, right, and el34 s ? Herbert comes with kt77 s stock, right? kt88 tubes are deeper and fuller than kt77 s. The Herbert can use kt 88 s. Which tubes were used in both amps? Also, the Prometheus has a special cab with specially designed Fane 150 watt, speakers, which are very bassy and go down to 65hz, compared to my Diezel 4x12 with Celestion vintage 30s. c30s are pretty mid oriented, right? So with the Prometheus cab with Fane speakers you get an even more ideal match to the Prometheus tube head, and more deep, full, bassy sound, I've heard. it really accentuates the strengths of the prometheus amp. did you Engl cab have the fane 150 speakers? Both sounded and looked great! I have a Herbert mark 2 and i love it. I would love to get the Prometheus, too. They would be a great complement to each other. I have the Lichtlaerm Audio Gehenna preamp distortion pedal, and it's my favorite, more than my REVV g4 distortion preamp pedal. Great products, Diezel, and Lichtlaerm Audio! Great playing and video! Thanks, The other John Brown, for the video, IRs, and any response. I love this great Prometheus amp and the cab.

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

Thank you! My Prometheus was loaded with EL34 and my Herbert with KT77 for this test and I used a V30 in my cab for this. The Prometheus takes pretty much all octal based power tubes. 6L6, 5881, EL34, 6CA7, KT77, KT88, 6550. While some people put KT88s in their Diezels, Peter Diezel very clearly does not recommend doing so.

[@metalfiend2112]

@@TheOtherJohnBrowne Ok, thankyou for warning me putting about kt88sin my Diezel herbert mk2. the premetheus has a huge amount of low end considering it used el34s. cool video!

[@needsLITHIUM]

I feel like if the Rockerverb had a presence knob, you could make it sound like the Prometheus by the treble down a notch and then turning that up. Their gain character sounds very similar to my ears, but the Orange is darker, and has more low end thump. You could turn up the treble knob by one notch, but tbh that amp gets way to harsh if you turn the treble past 7 or 8 or so There are a few pedals that add presence and depth knobs via the FX loop, among other options like a simple graphic EQ pedal, or some other kind of baxandall shelf EQ situation. I absolutely hear what other people hear when they say they like the Prometheus and Rockerverb for similar reasons. Being as the Rockerverb is my favorite amp, followed closely by the OR30 and older OR120 amps - the latter of which is kinda like a darker, woollier, more plexi boosted with a fuzz type Rockerverb sound, with a presence knob, tbf. A modern high gain overdrive like the Precision Drive, or vintage OD into a clean boost (TS9 or SD-1 into something like a Fortin 33 or Peppers Pedals Dirty Tree) in front of any of those, with the tone knobs set accordingly, can sound very similar to the Prometheus.

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

If the Rockerverb had some power amp controls, it could do even more damage but I don't see Orang echanging their concept any time soon. I think GupTech have one of those presence & resonance pedals for the fx-loop. May have to get one of those at some point.

[@needsLITHIUM]

@@TheOtherJohnBrowne I actually had that GupTech pedal in mind, and I know there's at least one more company that makes them. Agreed that a Rockerverb with power amp controls would be amazing. It's a shame that the OR120 is gone, the HF Drive knob was basically a presence knob just for the distortion, not to mention the FAC control. A lot of models of the OR120 on amp modelers (Zoom, NuX, Valeton, Line 6, or ToneLib GFX for software) give it the OR15/OR30 tone stack and a presence control, and it just sounds killer.

[@youztuber5000]

I am struggling to not want to get a Prometheus so badly....

[@dass101]

I was impressed by the Orange to be honest, although I expected to like it the least. It has the right combination of tightness, agressiveness and character. I understand why the Lichtlaerm appeals to people, but to me it sounded just a bit too generic. Regarding the Diezel, I respect that you dialed it in based on your preference, but I think using Ch3 was not the best choice. This channel is, by design, very compressed and saturated in the lower mids, made for lead, not for tight riffing. Comparing it to the precisely sculpted modern tone of the Lichtlaerm was a bit unfair IMO.

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

I compared it to Channel 2 too

[@eryckcrypton6412]

Puzzling to me: Herbert ch 3 with mid cut sounds honky like it has pushed mids rather than cut... Herbert ch 3 sounds very "bandwidth limited" in comparison with the Prometheus which has a nice "broad" frequency spectrum

[@JoelCSabo]

I daresay the Prometheus won for me, beating out the Herbert. I am currently on the Rockerverb vs. Prometheus section, and yeah, the voicing is freaky similar. Didn't see that coming. What tuning(s) are you in today?

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

Hey Joel, The Gibsons are both it drop C# and the Charvel is in drop C

[@JoelCSabo]

@TheOtherJohnBrowne , thank you for the informative reply, sir. I suspect the Prometheus would be a bit too... something for me and my E standard life even after Kyle did his video on it. Maybe I should tune lower and save up because Daniel @LichtlaermAudio did it again.

[@timhall7297]

Asthetic lichtlaerm sound lichhtlaerm so choice is obvious, besides the diezel looks as if it were made in a high school metal shop.

[@danielbelensky5513]

I confess, I wanted Diezel to win soooo badly because I love Herbert, but Prometheus is really nice :) Kinda reminds me really well dialed Mesa JP2C. so it’s apples and oranges here. Prometheus seems to be tighter and brighter, comparing to Herbert’s ch3, ch2+, I liked Ch2- a little more on Herbert(cleaner and wider), but higher gain stuff seems to be dialed better on Prometheus… I said dialed because somehow it’s sounds quite different to what I usually hear with my Diezel PS never cared about anything Orange makes.. PSS, maybe it’s just my ears but Prometheus seems to be louder than both Diezel and Orange.

[@SHANE-WRAITH]

Please do a Prometheus and driftwood purple nightmare comparison

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

I got to talk to Driftwood amps at Guitar Summit so maybe I can make that happen

[@SHANE-WRAITH]

@@TheOtherJohnBrowne awesome I have a Prometheus on order . The purple nightmare is my other dream amp . I'd love to see them both compared

[@jenyahp2828]

Diezel and Lichtlärm very different sounding tones indeed. You dialled in those guitar tones for diezel and Lichtlärm to be totally different. But are these the settings you also really like or did you dialled in those to show how different they can sound? Diezel sounding suuuuuuper compressed in the low mids. (like with a slow release) it does make sense for me at least. that's why also those palm mutes sound sooo nice! I feel like the Lichtlärm was super "natural". It did exactly what I thought it would do (if that sentence makes any sense lol). The diezel does have a lot of character. Which is not a pro and not a con. Sometimes in the mix I need something natural and sometimes something with character. But as soon as you changed to the dover. lol Then Lichtlärm sounded compared to that flubby to me. I have never watched anything about the dover stuff but this is tight man. That's crazy how controlled everything is. Which again, is not a pro and not a con. Great video!

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

The amps were generally dialed the way I like to play them with minimal tweaks to adjust to the cab. The EQ settings weren't very extreme on either amp. I did some slight matching in my first video but decided against it in this. The Dover is a super tight amp but with some cabs, it can sometimes get too tight sounding. That's where the Prometheus cut knob and bite switch come in as the MVPs. With those controls, I could get the Prometheus even tighter than the Dover but unlike the Dover, you can loosen the Prometheus up if needed

[@riverstone5994]

This video got me wanting a V now ngl

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

Vs are cool

[@Demonik44]

love all of them but there is something with the prometheus

[@dominikpohli2381]

is this the brenden small flying v

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

It is

[@YsAbTones]

the prometheus is just better

[@MatthiasBuesing]

I'm a big fan of the Diezel Herbert! 🤘🏻

[@SonicDriveStudio]

Prometheus wins!

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

Spoiler alert

[@christophgrubor7365]

Don't mess with the Herb, man! 😂 Actually, the grunt of a Diezel can't be compared. But, the Prometheus has a super cool character as well. At least from hearing it. I haven't played one, yet.

[@ronnymilianowicz5228]

For being ugly as fuck that Orange sounds pretty good. Loved the other two too!

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

LOL

[@dominikpohli2381]

is this carpo for tuning stabilty on gibson i had also i flyng v but i sold it it had very bad tuning stabilty for a over 1000 euro guitar

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

@@dominikpohli2381 it's a fretwrap. It's up there to dampen the strings behind the nut

[@Rokken2Dokken]

Love the snow falcons. Its is ans Amazings guitars but yous needs to talk likes skwisgars

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

LOL! Duly noted

[@wootks]

@@TheOtherJohnBrowne They need to reissue this guitar.

[@RandyRapprentice]

Herbert all the way

[@ThyFinalPain]

Keep the Dover and the Orange and sell the Rest. 😇

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

Both stellar amps. I ever so slightly prefer the German amps though

[@ThyFinalPain]

​@@TheOtherJohnBrowne I think the 50 Watters suite your style better. Where do you come from?

[@progrocker84]

The cab choice wasn't optimal for comparison. Engl XXL 412 is an oversized cab, with similar dimensions to the Mesa Boogie OS 4x12 cab. Herbert Mk I is reputed to be overly bloated on this cab. I vote that this shootout is redone with a new cab, preferably a front loaded Diezel. I use both cabs with my Herbert Mk III and prefer the pairing with the Diezel cab. Much deeper, faster and articulate sound without mud. If you absolutely must use an oversized rear-loaded 4x12 cab, Herbert's "deep" knob needs to be dialed way back.

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

I undestand. At the same time, that's the cab the community voted for and I don't own a Diezel cab

[@jciturr]

Dude, reminds me of a KSR Gemini...

[@saarangnarayan123]

The Prometheus sounds more "modern" than the VH4 and I don't know HOW that is possible. Blew my mind a bit here.

[@tyroneenglish8396]

Man the Rockerverb is the least powerful power section and has the best note to note separation! The 100W rockerverb would run these amps throughout these tests. People like sonicdrive seem to forget that transformers/wattage matter in how the speaker sees the amp. A 150W power section is brutal.

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

I don't remember Jon/SDS ever making a statment in that regard. What promted you to make that statement? Personally I'm not sure if a 100w Rockerverb would have performed much differenty since all amps were far from being maxed out but I have not done that experiment yet. I have newer owned the same amp in different wattages at the same time. Do you have first hand experience with that?

[@tyroneenglish8396]

@@TheOtherJohnBrowne a brief exchange between us. And yes I do have experience having owned 50and 100w amps from the same company. FWIW the way I see and feel it, the 100W rocker is a better amp - if they were that similar, why produce two amps? Why have 150W amps? But this is my experience, a lonely opinion, and my ears alone. We all hear things differently. Such subjective topic. On the subjectivity topic, all your amps are insane and I wish I could have them all 👍🏼

[@TheOtherJohnBrowne]

@@tyroneenglish8396 I appreciate your respectful and friendly way of communicating your experience. Just to be clear, I'm not saying it doesn't make a difference. I'm saying I don't know. Maybe I can get a hold of a 100w Rockerverb one day and test it for myself. Cheers!

[@kingpriapatius5832]

Herbert.

[@thanos4480]

5150 for all times!