Lies of P & Lords of the Fallen With Ziostorm | Yggdrasil Podcast 35

0:00 Intro
2:04 Initial D
5:27 Spellbound
10:03 LotF
18:14 Pokemon
27:11 LotF (2)
33:04 LoP
51:32 Starfield
59:11 Performance issues and patches in reviews

[@Zaney_]

Objectively the most most subjective podcast.

[@SmoughTown]

don't

[@bingus2464]

Subjectively the most objective podcast

[@art3misrrs]

I objectively know that your subjective comment is objectively subjective which is an objective fact not influenced by subjectivity

[@proggz39]

Gamers are subjectively the most objectified people

[@user-hs9ge3cj9p]

Your opinion is subjective. Objectively.

[@catanyag]

GUYS HELP CHADATOSKR IS IN MY HOUSE HE SAID HE'S GONNA REMAKE MY FACE WITH MODERN GRAPHICS ALL I DID WAS ASK HIM HOW HE WAS ENJOYING HIS GAME I can hear him searching every room in small semicircles, it's only a matter of time until

[@brendo1143]

oh no, the roomba got him

[@MarkerMurker]

I have a feeling that a lot of people don't quite understand Lies of P. Ziostorm said "Sekiro in quicksand". But the difference is that your combat style in Lies of P is almost completely optional. Dodging, parrying, tanking, all VERY viable and all able to be mixed depending on the situation. That's the beauty of the combat. Think of it more like Souls with free flowing options like DMC. As for the dodge, Link Dodge is a godsend. The base dodge is fine, but being able to extend your s if you dodge a little early is wonderful and very lenient. And then people complain about Fury Attacks. You don't *have* to perfect guard them. That's your most readily available option, but you can also use Fable Arts with hyper armor or the one that gives you an extended perfect guard window (Absolute Defense). There are ways around any mechanic you might feel iffy about. It's also super important to spec your P Organ to cover your strengths and weaknesses. To bring up my last example, if you rely on hyper armor Fable Arts like I did for Motivity, then you can buff your Fable recharge and slots in various ways. With all that being said though, I realize a lot of people won't care or pay attention to a lot of the nuanced options available to us.

[@lordptk4115]

Yeah, the game encourages you to adapt your playstyle from enemy to enemy and also mix and match in fights, and I love that. Some bosses are better parried, others dodged, some attacks combos are better to parry others to block, and again others to dodge. But finding out which is best for what scenario, and what you personally are comfortable with is going to take some time, especially since the bosses movesets are very difficult. I personally love that, since finding out and perfecting how to beat a boss "optimally", using all the tools available is the main reason I keep playing these games, and not moving on immediately after finishing them

[@TheUltimateRey]

Some people just wanna go ape wild and unga bunga everything when I think the game rewards you to experiment, I mean there’s a whole ass training area and I doubt the people that complained even considered using it

[@adrianeden8977]

The amount of downtime frames on the attack and dodge animations is not optional. I platinumed the game, and it made me sick of just having to stand there for 3 seconds until Pinocchio says I'm allowed to play the game again. Parrying, dodging, blocking, all felt too slow for me given how difficult the bosses are.

[@thewretch4081]

I still think your character is far too slow, but I got used to it and ended up loving the game

[@ronthorn3]

Zio wants to spam roll his way to the end.

[@Shezmen88]

So refreshing to know that there's other people who play Souls game "solo" like me. And yes, with Midir...it's totally true, recently I tried to help a friend beat Midir (one of my very few co-op experiences) and it was a frustrating mess. It had tons of hp and it was unpredictable af. It brakes the flow of the fight completely and you never know where to position yourself. Alone it's still hard yes, but at least you know when you mess up and how to improve next time.

[@Wilhelm4131]

Solo is the way to go

[@YEY0806]

Great to see you here Shaz 👍good luck with your future projects

[@mkv2718]

Yup. This exactly. Some enemies work great in co op, others are terrible. When ER came out, I had a great time helping people with Godrick, yet the instant I tried the same with Radahn, all hell broke loose 😂

[@user-hs9ge3cj9p]

Solo is always the default and most fun way to play souls games

[@Glowerer]

Are you gonna do a Lords of the Fallen parody?

[@LuxAurorae]

Yeah what Ratatoskr says about there being a sort of arms race between soulslike devs and player skill is something I’ve felt since probably DS3. I’m not sure it’s entirely sustainable given how much more popular the genre is becoming either, but it’s certainly interesting from a design standpoint! I think these two games do absolutely highlight different… subcategories of souls enjoyer as well. Lies appeals more to the type that enjoys taking their time to really master and overcome each boss-shaped wall and is less interested in the fluff between while Lords caters towards those who miss that sense of mystery and overwhelming danger in world exploration. Not to say there isn’t some overlap either but I think the degree to which these games have been polarizing within the fandom shows that there’s some kind of split here. Anyway, great conversation. Enjoyed that.

[@ELDENLORD89]

I just don’t understand the mental gymnastics Ziostorm imposes when talking about the combat and bosses of LoP. Especially considering that the “tempo” of these bosses were set by Fromsoft themselves. Nameless King is quite literally the beginning of delayed attack meme and everyone touts that boss as one of the all time greats. Hell, Ludwig is literally my favorite Fromsoft boss and he has an attack that quite literally takes him completely off screen to where you can’t visibly see him which leads into a plunge attack. The devs for LoP aren’t just making this shit up they’re literally copying the masters playbook. Many of the mini bosses or elite enemies like the Baton Police Men are the LoP equivalent of the Lothric Knights (one of my favorite Souls enemies). And while it’s super fucking cool that Zio 2 timed Orphan or 1st timed Gale some of us where stuck on those fuckers for hours if not days. I literally dropped Sekiro for a week because Isshin was pushing my shit in. But I wanted to beat the game so bad that I finally hopped on with clarity and won. And I think Isshin is a fantastic last boss. Another thing I want to touch on is game scaling. While it’s true we as a player base are getting better and these games have to compensate for that, I don’t believe people whose first game was Elden Ring that go back and play DS3 are gonna have a markedly easier job. It’ll be easier in the since that you understand the troupes Fromsoftware implements but that’s about it. Enemy and boss design aggressively changed post Bloodborne. I also don’t agree that Sekiro is somehow the more forgiving parry game. Did you guy seriously get for the first 7 spears fights and go “woooow that was easy XD” cmon now. LoP’s bosses and combat are absolutely the peak of the genre.

[@ClydeNut]

Don’t feel too bad about zio’s claims of first trying Gael and Orphan, blasting through legendary bosses that quickly (with broken builds I’m guessing) will always be infinitely cheaper and less satisfying than actually taking the time to learn them. Kinda sad to me that there are people who play Souls games but actively don’t want to learn the bosses.

[@gnperdue]

LOOOOL… “Parenting is hard,” - Rata: “It isn’t that hard, you’re just a bad manger” 😂😂😂

[@ReversedCentaur]

Meanwhile doesn’t have kids and struggles to not call them “it” haha😅

[@Zurrix1979]

That was cringe inducing. Lol

[@ALIMOQPEL]

It's a get good situation

[@jatt7109]

One kid is easy it’s when you got the second when it gets really hard

[@HungNguyen-jk5ll]

bro rlly said git gud lmfaoo@@ALIMOQPEL

[@lordptk4115]

"Lies of P doesn't have the core combat and the core strength, identity of souls combat". I have to strongly disagree with that statement. I mean what even is the core identity of souls combat? (Zio didn't really elaborate on it) I would assume from the discussion: a (mainly reaction-based) combat that relys on learning and boss move sets and then executing appropriate responses to that, ending in a dance with the boss. I would agree with the last part, but not with the reaction-based element, and not with the general sentiment, that most bosses should be able to be understood within a few tries. That might have been the case for the old souls-games, but fromsoft's combat/boss-philosophy has evolved over time. They started with mostly gimmick-bosses in Demon's Souls, continued to the more duel-based bosses in DS1, added complexity in movesets in DS1 DLC, more tracking, delayed attacks in DS2, even more complex move sets with branching combo trees in BB's DLC, more of that in DS3, way longer combo-strings with a bunch of mix-ups in Sekiro, delayed attacks, positional reads, punishes, combo-variations in Elden Ring. Point is, they haven't stood still, and nowadays learning bosses, their movesets and the tricks they have are much more important than in the old souls games (go back to them and you'll see how easy it is to just strafe around them and dodge the occasional attack, that's it). Whether that's a good thing or not, is preference. They both seek to achieve the same thing: The satisfaction of learning a boss, and entering that dance with them, and finally beating them. It just takes a lot more effort from the player for their newer bosses because of the increased complexity. I very much enjoy that, and it is what makes me continue playing these games. And that's why I love LoP's combat and bosses. I argue, that it is closest to Fromsoft's modern boss-design-philosophy. So yeah, it catches the "identity of souls combat", but of the modern one.

[@thrxshx]

Yet he loves LOTF where you literally do not have to learn a single boss's moves to beat it first try.

[@ELDENLORD89]

Yeah him saying that is wild to me. I legit don’t know what he’s getting at. It’s okay if her like LoTF more to make that claim is just crazy lol

[@fastenedcarrot9570]

Says "I don't think I explained it well" proceeds to explain it worse lol. I like Zio but it seems we differ very heavily on how we judge combat in games if not just games overall.

[@Eternal_Placidity]

​@@thrxshxBlatantly wrong

[@Roxxigaro]

You dont have to learn most ER boss attacks though, for the most part, you can dodge on reaction. The exceptions being either the ultra fast "chip damage" type attacks (margit dagger) or ones like the mountain tops death birds ground AoE that can one shot, and a few other aoe type moves, basically attacks everyone complains about as being more bullshit than the rest. For most of ER attacks though they are well telegraphed to the point you can dodge based on reflexes the first time you see them if you are good. In Lies of P the animations are intentionally misleading, with straight up feint attacks, not delayed attacks, but actual feint attacks that are meant to trick you and throw you off. People say "oh yeah lies of P you need to take multiple attempts and learn the boss! just like Elden ring!" but elden ring attacks still manage to feel fair for the most part. In lies of P they dont feel fair, it does feel like trial and error. Its like a really bad players take on how elden ring works ie: "The moves are trial and error, you need to run for the boss and wait your turn, you need to memorize the moves and its mostly a memorization fight" which is wrong for like 95% of elden ring, but right for every other enemy in Lies of P. Lies of P devs missed the mark big time in terms of boss difficulty, but people who enjoyed dying to a boss over and over and using memorization to overcome the boss dont notice a difference, because they did so for every other boss in elden ring. In lords of the fallen the devs screwed up big time with too many enemies because most gamers dont actually have any critical thinking or multitasking skills to deal with multiple enemies, and the bosses are way too easy so theres not much there for souls fans who just want boss fights. Both games are good in opposite ways souls fans enjoy souls games for, and both fail in opposite ways on the bosses. Lies of P bosses do feel good when you finally do get the memorization down though.

[@kimlee6643]

LoP, LotF and Remnant 2. It's crazy we got these games so close to one another.

[@peridrawland5955]

Wasn't expecting to get slammed on the face by Giga-Chad Rata on the thumbnail

[@kaiderhai86]

Lies of p dodge is all you need to complete the game. But you can also block, guard, tank or throw stuff. Its the most variety i ever had in soulsgames imo. I love it and i died to every boss dozens of times on my first run. And a small part of it was just experimenting with waepons etc.

[@Gandwarf213]

Congratulations Zio on having a baby!

[@Xenbjorn]

Nothing beats the satisfaction of playing a game for countless hours as a child and then finally completing it in high school. Yes, this was the story of Zelda: Majora's Mask. This podcast conversation tickled that memory in my brain so, thank you guys.

[@tripplejaz]

Pokemon fans and Sonic fans have a lot in common. It's nostalgia founded Stockholm syndrome at this point.

[@rainbowkrampus]

That's a big part of it for sure. I do think that there's an issue with clashing audiences though. Both devs want to retain a degree of all ages accessibility but they also have fans from the very beginning... which was decades ago. The devs want to strike a balance between adult expectations and the needs of young gamers. And... they never seem to have figured out what that balance is. So there's this perpetual cycle of old fans getting hyped about whatever new thing the devs are doing to try to appeal to them. But other things will get dropped in the name of accessibility. And round and round it goes as no group is ever satisfied. Really the devs just need to commit to one audience. But they have financial needs. So a captured audience is useful. Older fans could and should move on. But when have gamers™ever shown self restraint? It's negative incentive structures all the way down.

[@SackofWoe]

I'm constantly on the fence about if I like both your channels, so to see you both here together is the strangest thing.

[@Clayjar444]

Venigni's Italian kinda makes sense because he is an obvious reference to Roberto Benigni, the quirky Italian comedian and actor who interpreted Pinocchio in a movie with a weird twist on the story

[@fridayafternoons1]

Lies of P combat was incredible. I started playing elden ring again for the first time in over a year immediately after playing 2 playthroughs of lies of p and... Imma get flamed for saying this but lies of p has better combat.

[@SILVERONIN]

I have long hours on both games and I enjoy LoP combat more than Elden cause of the weapon experimentation, the pulse regen and the puppet string is badass!

[@Hanz_Haze]

Holy shit... i needed exactly this right now. Thank you.

[@Xenbjorn]

Remnant 2 is one of my favorite all-time games, glad you called it out! Loved the first one as well.

[@rainbowkrampus]

I'm pretty hype to play it eventually. I skipped FtA thinking it looked kinda boring when it came out. But I played it recently and it's definitely one of those 'not fun to watch but fun to play' games.

[@Xenbjorn]

@@rainbowkrampus at first, I thought it was just another post apoc shooter made with the fortnite engine. Took the plunge and wow was I wrong. A lot of people criticized the lore and worldbuilding but honestly it’s some of the best in my opinion. Once you get past Earth, the game plunges you into a crazy deep lore and story if you actually read the sprinkled texts.

[@willr3891]

One of the few games I bought at launch in years, still haven’t played it of course lmao.

[@mkv2718]

I really liked the first one… but.. I dunno. While I beat this one, it hasn’t had the staying power in my mind like the first one. The first one felt like I had new opportunities for a totally new boss every time (I still think there might be one that just never came up) yet in 2, I feel like I’m already going for only alt kills on like my third run… feels weird.

[@kaladinstormblessed9626]

Always nice to watch this podcast

[@brettonalwood4173]

I appreciated the back and forth here. Both of you brought up good points. I have not played either lotf or lop yet so hearing pros and cons of each across a variety of views has been enlightening.

[@kratosmuscle1163]

Very dissapointed with lotf was actually looking forward to it, also don't understand this first try stuff I actually play these games to learn a fight not to first try a boss just seems weird to me. Even if I can first try a boss and I don't know the moveset yet I will die intentionally to see everything the boss has isn't that the whole point of doing a boss???

[@thrxshx]

Aside from the fact LOTF doesn't even work half the time, this is its most glaring flaw. The bosses are toddler level. I don't know how anyone could enjoy first-trying almost every single boss in a game.

[@mkv2718]

The point of a fighting a boss is to beat the boss… that’s it🤨. All that other stuff is just stuff you invented in your head. Which is fine if that’s what you like, but don’t expect everyone to actually care about all that.

[@mkv2718]

@@thrxshxI mean, that’s what happened when I played Demon’s Souls. 🤷‍♂️

[@anonymousperson8903]

@@mkv2718 It's always been a huge part of souls games, learning a boss and having to engage with their mechanics. It's a huge downgrade if you don't have to do that.

[@alenezi989a3]

Exactly, hard bosses is literally what makes these games fun for me. That's not really a criticism that you can't first try a boss.

[@dannypistilli4864]

Congratulations on your baby girl. Just had a little girl recently and it's amazing. Happy to hear she is well

[@johncra8982]

"it's been a bit since you had it- her*" I'm glad I wasn't drinking water bc I would've spat it out 😂

[@autismointermitente8767]

all babies are it before they can express their personalities

[@johncra8982]

@@autismointermitente8767 fitting username

[@AdoreYouInAshXI]

@@autismointermitente8767 Such a stupid comment.

[@Ghorda9]

@@autismointermitente8767 it's written on their birth certificate, no need to "wait for personality"

[@nicholastaylor2214]

I can understand lies of p. The game is so great clearly. If it’s your thing or not it’s done very well. Want to love lotf but it’s just difficult to not see a bunch of red flags saying this is a poorly made game.

[@petrrut8544]

So you are basically telling us that you like Lies of P and you dont like Lords of the Fallen. But you are trying to frame it like an objective, total truth without even elaborating a little. The art of critical thinking and discussion seems to be lost to you...

[@Eternal_Placidity]

LOTF is not poorly made. Unpolished in places and poorly optimized? Yes. But at a core the game is good.

[@iHaveTheDocuments]

​​@@petrrut8544 "I like lies of P so clearly it's great, I don't like lotf so it's poorly made" That's the extent of their argument

[@glaserjo]

@@Eternal_Placidity I think unpolished is pretty kind. It could have used another year of development before release.

[@emoemo247]

@@petrrut8544 There are a lot of fundamental problems with LoTF (beyond simply the poor optimization/performance). 1. Enemy density, I think they are tuning this down after so many complaints but it really is a slog to get through at times. 2. Enemy encounters. Most encounters will consist of way too many enemies and ranged snipers that can shoot you accurately from way too far away (again I think they are tuning this down). The main problem is it doesn't feel well thought out, all of the encounters feel very similar like they just built a cool area and threw a bunch of the same enemies around haphazardly. In the souls games they try to keep the encounters varied and difficulty comes from *well placed* enemies, not the sheer number of them. For just one example, look at the silver knight archers in Anor Londo for a well designed but difficult encounter that is both memorable and feels like it fits the world. 3. Enemy variety. Put simply there just isn't enough, a game like Lies of P is much shorter and more linear but they introduce at least 2-3 new enemies in each new area to keep things fresh and this continues right up until the final area of the game. In LoTF you might encounter a boss and then it will be reused as a basic enemy in the very next area simply with a bloated health bar and more damage, and regular enemies are reused so frequently with little to no visual difference meaning it is impossible to differentiate them, except that they will now deal double the damage and have 4x the health of the version from the previous area. 4. Combat. There a lot of problems here, but I've heard it said many times that LoTF feels like you are playing on roller blades and I think that is accurate. Every attack comes with a huge amount of forward momentum, some weapons are a lot worse than others for this and it proves to be a huge issue when falling off of cliffs is a frequent cause of death. There are very few things like fable arts that add special flourishes or flashy moves to vary up the combat, most of the game could be beaten by simply spamming the same R1, R1, R1 combo. 5. Weapon variety, is also sorely lacking. I know that sounds crazy and you will probably be like "But there are hundreds of weapons!", but the real issue is move-set remains static across all weapons of the same class and there aren't that many classes of weapons. You might unlock a boss weapon and it will have the same move-set as a regular one handed sword, but maybe has one special move or a elemental effect. Compare this with Lies of P's weapon crafting system, which allows you to exchange any weapons blade with a completely new move-set by attaching another handle. And each piece also comes with a brand new special move meaning you get two per weapon. This is in addition to very unique boss weapons with more completely unique move-sets. There are more issues that I could go into but here's a short list of things I think are pretty fundamental to get right in these types of games.

[@SomeoneIsAlwaysMovingOnTheSurf]

Rata, we might finally get the full Acadamy Raya Lucaria experience !

[@vile_Rec]

Fantastic discussion on all topics gentlemen

[@lvertigo4998]

So I never listen to podcasts, however, I found this one very enjoyable. I loved all the bunny trails during this segment. How funny that Metriod 2 was brought up; a game that for the majority of my younger years terrified me. I really appreciate both of your perspectives and willingness to expand on both of your views rather than shutting down so to speak. Thank you both for your thoughts!

[@ShjadeNexayre]

It's funny: I ended up getting this game pretty much only because of the contrast between your two videos about it when someone linked them to me while talking about its difficulty-I'd been ignoring that the game existed before that point, no interest. The thing was, Ziostorm's video showed footage of the player doing things like trapping themselves in a corner surrounded by enemies and subsequently getting mashed to death, or dodging *with* the swing of an enemy (and therefore getting hit by the end of the swing) instead of either backward to get out of range from the attack or *toward* the swing to through it, which showed me that they're making mistakes no amount of parry timing forgiveness would fix. So I had to try it; I had to know if the issues they stated were really there, or if they were mistakenly blaming game mechanics for problems that were actually caused by their decisions. The refreshing surprise was something of a best of both worlds. I REALLY enjoyed Lies of P-both my first run as Advance (flamethrower arm, electric coil mace, acid crystal spear with either acid tip or salamander fire tip, depending on the area; no throwable spam, nothing strange or cheesy for the most part, just lots of guarding, dodging, clubbing and/or stabbing) and, even more so, subsequent NG+ Quality runs absolutely thrashing everything-more than basically any other non-FromSoft "soulslike" I can think of having tried. Top-notch game. And in the process I got to confirm that, at least for me, the defensive mechanics felt fine. It never felt like I was missing any necessary tools for survival. I never found myself dying and thinking something like "I clearly dodged that" or "I didn't even have time to parry that", and this was while intentionally not taking the link-two-dodges upgrade to make sure I was working with only the dodge you start with. In the rare cases I ended up in an essentially inescapable situation, I could see how I'd put myself there, and how not to repeat that error. Fury attack too fast/oddly timed to perfect guard it consistently (Lax phase 2 storm dive; NP phase 2 slash-dash)? I found ways to more consistently avoid them instead, or put on the Fury dodge amulet to make it even safer. Struggling to PG a combo string? I'd reposition to where most of it would whiff, then guard or PG the hits that still tracked. Being chased by Romeo's dance of fire? I'd panic and cry until my tears put the fire out. And so on. I ended up creating a running playlist of all my major boss attempts for posterity and they pretty much all felt like great fights across the board*. Even the few one-and-dones (Parade Master, C. Parade Master, a few of the "regular human" bosses) didn't feel like a free walk. Longest one start to finish was Lax at 8 attempts over 48 minutes (including time spent going back to the hotel, fussing with gear, mulling over ideas, etc.). Anyway, longwinded way to say thanks to you both for providing intriguing enough food for thought on the game that I was convinced I had to play it myself. I would've missed out on a great time otherwise. I feel like I can recommend it to anyone who's already into Soulsborne games; the difficulty clearly varies quite a bit from player to player, but I didn't really see it as significantly different from Elden Ring difficulty-wise. On the whole it was easier than Sekiro, at least for me, if only because it requires less all-out persistent aggression to bring down a stance bar, so you can afford to play comparatively passively without being punished for it in LoP (especially with regenerating resource upgrades later). Difficulty's a tough thing to measure. I first-tried Capra Demon and the doggo squad on my first Dark Souls playthrough when it was the first Soulsborne game I'd ever played. Going backward to DeS after the fact, Flamelurker absolutely beat my ass. Playing DS2 SotFS for the first time recently, I killed Fume Knight in 2 or 3 attempts. I took forever to get my first kill on Orphan of Kos. Most bosses I struggled to kill at first I could probably steamroll now out of familiarity, but Demon of Hatred in Sekiro was so bad that I never even considered fighting it again in any subsequent NG+ runs after getting the one kill I needed on it for achievement purposes. And then there's Malenia. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. Identifying where it's our own abilities, choices, and preferences causing a negative outcome vs a result of the game's mechanics (or a combination of the two) can be a very tricky thing to do. *Except for the Door Guardian. The Door Guardian can go away forever and I wouldn't mind. Not a question of difficulty, just not a fun gimmick. I guess every good Soulsborne is contractually obligated to have That One Gimmick Boss.

[@craves7215]

I think the primary issue with Ziostorm, was that he was unable to get early access on Lies of P. So he had to rush the game to make content, hence he was unable to enjoy the game as it was intended. But made videos when he was really early on in the game, and forced his mindset throughout the game. I wish he would retry the game without a content mindset, and try it that way. Because Lies of P is a excellent game that has the factors he believes it doesn't.

[@TFCTech]

This is exactly what happened

[@looots1320]

More like Zio spoke with the lotf Devs, sure they didn't pay him but that interaction made them closer and made him feel "special"

[@TFCTech]

@@looots1320 God forbid he like the game

[@craves7215]

@@looots1320 If build variety and a nonlinear nature are very important to you. I can see why people would like LOTF compared to Lies of P. He's allowed to like both, I like lies of p much more. But it has flaws, I would just prefer the flaws be discussed fairly.

[@VonSchnitz]

2 of my favorite creators. Enjoying the discussion here

[@Blindcontroller]

Lies of P combat feels a little like a fighting game and Mike Tyson Punch Out to me. I really loved it. I think wanting it to be exactly 1 for 1 with a souls game makes some Souls players dislike it.

[@TheSeth256]

Agree, for me the different approach to combat was a breath of fresh air and I really enjoyed the game. The black rabbit brothers fight was one of my favorite bosses in any game, it was so creative and cool.

[@Blindcontroller]

They handled the multi boss fights very well

[@RyanDMcDonnell]

Hearing about the changes coming to Lords of the Fallen is fantastic. I might actually buy it now! Rata, please make a video if you go back through it and change your mind. It looks great aside from the issues you mentioned.

[@SOCNV]

So let me get this Ziostorm is willing to slug with LotF but not with LoP? So its either you didn't use the games mechanics to its fullest because you're playing it as a bloodborne clone or you refuse to use any other tactics. Cause LotF had mechanics that made the game easier which people used but Ziostorm seemed like you only hit and dodge, we have legion arms and throwables along with grindstones. If you used the games combat mechanics to its fullest its not as hard if you were just to hit and run. Ps. Rato talks about getting what he paid for and part of that is using the mechanics that the game implements.

[@looots1320]

I played LOP first playthrough as bloodborne and 1-3 tries every boss except swamp boss I literally just dodge King of puppets no blocking

[@SiltStrider232]

Great pod appreciate yall

[@minusp895]

I think people rely on dodge too much in Lies of P. Running instead of dodging and using dodge to edge out of the damage zones is the best tactic.

[@johndodo2062]

A mix of everything is the best tactic. You can dodge explosions ffs

[@minusp895]

Yes, but I'm referring to general dodging of attacks. Running works better than the gimp dodge.

[@nuh-uhbro765]

I completely agree. Scrapped Watchman thought me how to play the game, my Dark Souls stats weren’t working and the only way through was to master the parry timing. The experience is so rewarding I have no idea how anybody can complain about the combat in this game.

[@nuh-uhbro765]

Like Sekiro people don’t like Lies or P because there’s a right and a wrong way to play, where most souls games promote different play styles. However I think both of those games have the most satisfying combat in any of these games because the enemies and bosses are able to be more finely tuned for the player character.

[@36shadowboy]

I fr think it's just a mix of everything man. Every move has some sort of counter

[@stevemichael652]

How do you give a game an 8/10 if you hated the combat? How?

[@justaquietpeacefuldance]

Maybe because individual preferences, for example: towards slower or faster combat, don't score that much on the scale? You could hate Sekiro combat for any number of reasons, but it would be silly to give the game 3/10 just because of that.

[@stevemichael652]

Sure, but a game that scores an 8/10 would have to mean the combat is enjoyed by the reviewer. And if someone played Sekiro and didn’t like the combat , odds are they wouldn’t bother finishing the game. LoP and other games in this genre put heavy focus on combat. So if someone isn’t enjoying the combat, which is the main focus of the game, it’s impossible to rate that game an 8. What else does LoP offer that is worthy of an 8, if the combat isn’t enjoyable ? If the game would be a 10/10 outside of the bad combat , the combat being bad would by itself drag it down lower than an 8.

[@justaquietpeacefuldance]

@@stevemichael652 you're probably right, generally reviewer should like and know the genre a bit. I don't know why Rata gave 8/10. That's what I think I would do judging combat game that's not to my taste, but a good game in the genre.

[@ELDENLORD89]

Yeah I don’t get this either. The heart of these games is the combat. I would never play these games just for the exploration if the combat encounters were whack.

[@justaquietpeacefuldance]

@@ELDENLORD89 I wonder if people who bought ER to ride a horse got their money's worth xD Quite possibly imo! I get what you mean, both of you ;)

[@ReversedCentaur]

Zio is a good guy. He said the one thing I suspected which is that his personal talks with the dev made him overlook certain things. Conflict of interest is tricky. In the end, he’s not a professional reviewer. My bet is he’ll be more cautious in the future. Nice podcast guys.

[@benjaminnewland9561]

The upgraded Aegis Legion Arm is a lifesaver. It also eases that difficult curve a lot.

[@dragonlotion1789]

Whatever Pieta was selling I wasn’t buying, she was horribly miscast.

[@YEY0806]

I mean the voice actress added a sense of personality to the character, I Honestly found her dialogue hilarious 😂 with how dramatic it all is

[@Legendary_Honey]

She is such a cool character, but her voice acting is so goofy. I love the jank in this game, though, so she only adds to the experience for me.

[@The_Babe]

​@Legendary_Honey She may be goofy but I find her adorable too lol Souls Waifu Unlocked 🔓

[@MaidenlessScrub]

@@The_Babe Yeah she sounds like a dork that is trying to be dignified and holy because she was raised by the hollowed sentinels and the Judge Cleric. But that also makes her a lot more human compared to them, may explain why she's the only boss that's left alive lmao

[@mkv2718]

@@Legendary_Honeysome of the acting is pretty good… just not the lady you talk to the most 😂

[@JoeMurray5]

My 5 hours on lords of fallen was spent game crashing, fps drops - first impressions do matter. This is with a 30 series gpu and i9900k. A week later the games finally playable but it’s had about 8 patches haha. It really needed more time before release

[@mduckernz]

The inconsistency is the weirdest thing. So many people have very similar hardware and no issues. This is a bit of a theme I’ve noticed with UE5 titles unfortunately

[@joemurray]

I agree completely (same person just different YT). My friend has a worse PC than me and his game is running really smooth. I ended up putting all graphics to lowest and capping fps at 60 and seems to be better. I have beaten the game now and unfortunately some awesome boss fights were still plagued with fps drops (sometimes going from 60 down to 8 then back to 30 then up to 60). Still had the game crash a few times, also completely went through the ceiling in one area lol. In a month or so I reckon the game will be really polished and despite performance issues the games grown on me. I can only really compare with Lies of P as it released similar ish time and I just never had any performance issues with that game so I think you are right about Unreal Engine 5. I do think Lords of the Fallen is trying to be bigger scale than lies of p but doing so the polish hasn't been there. Sorry for the long reply haha@@mduckernz

[@temi472]

Rata is so right on midir, i could never beat him with a summon and all of a sudden when i went in solo it was so much easier to predict and react to his moves. I agree with Ziostorm on how much i love LOTF combat its so good( and its all i care about)

[@BVargas78]

I like the new LOTF. I also enjoyed Wo Long which I also have on PS5 and also gets some unfair hate imo. While Lies of P, which rightly has near universal acclaim I have on PC. Good year!

[@ReversedCentaur]

Rata is so obviously not a father lol

[@naxergss2625]

I think he is personally. i swear in one of the livestreams i heard crying in the background. i will continue to investigate tho

[@ReversedCentaur]

@@naxergss2625I don’t actually know but I was laughing my ass off when he struggled to relate to Zio in congratulating him .

[@tatu9805]

@reversedcentaur I do not consider diarrhea in my underwear to be evidence that I shit my pants.

[@robaustin_]

Raising a kid starts becoming much harder when they become toddlers. Anyone who thinks that Rata's take about life management is accurate should picture managing and protecting completely autonomous, less intelligent, small fragile human with anger and balance issues and see how easy that is. I'm not complaining, I love being a father, but it's not easy and it's not the same as managing your own life because babies and children are completely autonomous and make their own decisions regardless of how well-behaved they are. It's essentially impossible to have complete control over another human. But I think he really knows that, it was just small talk 😂

[@Stonemask5]

@@naxergss2625 I think he might live with his extended family.

[@SleeplessSpecter]

This might be juicy 🍿

[@omegas82128]

"It's fun to look at children playing dolls and dress up " - Ratatoskr 2023

[@Moody.Smiruai]

Live how if tou take that out of context, you can turn it from so wholesome to creepy. Well done and also bruh

[@fastenedcarrot9570]

This has not sated my desire for bloodshed. It has however sated my desire for rational discussion between two cool KZbinrs that I like so... eh, it'll do.

[@EmissaryOfSmeagol]

It took me maybe 10 hours to get through the Undead Burg and Parish. 170 hours to beat the game. Genichiro took me a week. Isshin took me around 4 hours. Malenia took me around 4 days. It's hard to imagine Lies of P being any more punishing than what I've already been through.

[@rz3264]

Depends on the people gaming sense&character build i think, personally i rate laxasia harder than malenia.

[@ELDENLORD89]

@@rz3264No way is she harder than Malenia. She’s definitely one of the toughest bosses in the gama but Malenia is on another level than literately any boss in these games.

[@rz3264]

@@ELDENLORD89 That's why i said for me personally and i've never played sekiro before. For malenia the only moveset that hard to learn for me is just that waterfowl dance and it takes about 30-ish tries for me, while laxasia 2nd phase i have to learn the parry&read her constant teleporting delay attack that all drastically have different timing. Took me 1 day and i still don't know how did i win that fight lol

[@ArkbladeIX]

Victor took me about as long as isshin ngl. I loved the boss tho, very honest moveset

[@EmissaryOfSmeagol]

@@ArkbladeIX I haven't played LoP yet but I am stewing with tentative hype

[@fastenedcarrot9570]

"It's been a while since you had it... her" 🤣

[@seanoconnor5473]

This was a really enjoyable episode. I enjoy Ziostorm’s videos. I’m still not enjoying LOTF but I’m slogging my way through it (mostly due to performance issues that I’m still experiencing on my Series X). I just wish they were actually cutting my guy some cash because being a new parent is expensive.

[@lonelySires]

congrats Ziostorm

[@AdrianMRyan]

Haha love you two boomers. I am older than both of you (late 30s), **and** grew up in rural Alaska where access to technology was limited, but what you're describing as middle school was just our middle school experience too. Middle school is a time of angst and puberty and and suddenly having to do "real" school. We were all playing HL and Quake Arena at the local computer cafe, stealing drugs from our parents, and trading info on how to break the security on the school computers so we could spend way too much time on web forums and AOL and the like. Don't get me wrong, things have changed, especially with cell phones. But not *that* much. Middle school just sucks. Anyway, love this conversation and your insight into the souls genres. I am also super hyped for Spellbound and hope that it's real. It sounds right, but that makes me all the more skeptical bc it's easier to make a guess that sounds right. I've been curious to Zio: When talking to them, do they sound like different people? With different mannerisms / tones and such?

[@morriganrenfield8240]

Yeah they aren’t super aware of how out of touch with themselves they really are i guess lol.

[@ni9274]

LOTF performance issues are much bigger than Elden Ring, it was not just FPS drops and sutters, it was constent crashes and below 40fps on the lowest settings

[@Wilhelm4131]

How? I have mid tier pc and could run it at high settings with dlss

[@minusp895]

I played through Shadow Tower earlier this year. I need more of that. A tight interconnected dungeon with a heavy emphasis on magic and survival elements.

[@snakelady647]

Go play Kings Field 4, best of the best when it comes to tightly interconnected dungeon design.

[@minusp895]

It's pretty expensive now isn't it?

[@DingoMCCringus]

@@snakelady647 There's a good guide online if you do a search for the best way to play KF4

[@snakelady647]

@@minusp895 Eh, just do a google search for the best way to play KF Also, jealous of you. KF4 is one of the games I would give anything to play again with fresh eyes. The Ancient City is just so intricate and cool.

[@robbieclark1784]

You guys have a good rapport.

[@heibk-2019]

Ohh this is gonna be interesting

[@nicholastaylor2214]

To each their own but lies of p wins this fight by a long shot. I struggled but that and art style are some of the bigger reasons I’m pulled to play these games. All in all loved this discussion. Ps lies of p is much much better for me.

[@AdrianMRyan]

Sorry comment number 2. I wanted to say that I really appreciate this podcast: how it comes out only when you really have something to talk about, how the conversations are genuine and in-depth rather than shallow, and how wide-ranging it is while still being on-topic. Also how you and your guests can completely disagree on specifics, but spend a lot of time on understanding that disagreement rather than trying to argue points. If I could make a suggestion for guests, I'd actually be really curious to hear you talk to ChaseTheBro and/or Lost. They engage with a totally different side of the souls games, and I think it would make for an incredibly interesting conversation, with you coming from different places, and getting into how they see playing the games & content creation from the PVP side.

[@rainbowkrampus]

Ya know what? F*** this weird etiquette around commenting twice. The comment section not being super readable is a YT problem. But also, most people won't read a comment if they have to click a 'Read more' button. In the interest of sheer engagement, you should treat YT comments like twitter. Short and numerous.

[@QuantumTelephone]

Ahh yes, Zio "it came to me in a tweet" Storm. He is professionally wrong for a living on his channel

[@mikedelgrande5296]

I agree with Rat on Lies of P and I agree with Zio on Lords of the Fallen. I love them both and had an absolute blast playing both of them. I look forward to doing another playthrough of both.

[@djkymaera]

Appreciate the podcast gentleman, really enjoying my time with LOTF, interested in the other two games you spoke about also.

[@I-ONLY-BUILD-MECHS-AND-DUSTERS]

"It's like a dance" I know it's not your fault ratatoskr but I am closing the tab now.

[@zuurek6907]

Saying you can't beat lies of p bosses on the first try just isn't true. I beat both the swamp monster and Victor on my first try

[@drizztsensei]

Rata mentioned a lot of people playing Souls games for the "right attack, the right thing to do" against bosses. But like I started playing back when I had to import Demon's Souls from Asia and most everyone played it by cheesing bosses back then. Shooting arrows through gaps in the walls and so on. I don't think Souls gamers necessarily care for the difficult boss fights. Some do but not all.

[@AdoreYouInAshXI]

My issue with Zio and Lords of the Fallen was how he seemed to gush and gush and gush in every video about how it "stood toe to toe" with FromSoftware, without mentioning hardly any of it's many flaws. Combine that with the fact that he seemed to shit on Lies of P a bit (which I felt was far better, and is generally considered to be the consensus it seems). It also looked even worse that, while he may not have gotten paid for his review of Lords of the Fallen, he was still flown out by the developers, put up in a nice hotel, given early access, given the deluxe/collectors edition of the game etc. Now combine that with the fact that almost all of the "sponsors" of Lord of the Fallen (especially Cowboy and Zio) gave very similar reviews. It really does seem a little shill-y. I like both of them as streamers (and I tend to highly dislike youtuber personalities), but I've lost trust in their reviews and opinions on games. I'll watch walkthroughs, listen to their videos for upcoming news and info about Souls/souls likes, but their reviews are tainted.

[@blacktrickstar3468]

Yeah I agree mostly. I actually trusted pre-ordering Lords of the Fallen because of ZioStorm... so I felt a bit betrayed. If he hadn't been through as much performance problems as most of us have then I get why he didn't hate it AS much. (I played it on ps5) I wish he was completely honest about the bosses and a bit more blunt about the enemy hordes. Among other issues.

[@hobojoe9717]

@@blacktrickstar3468Honestly, if you based your decision to preorder something mostly on one person’s opinion, then that’s on you. Really the decision to preorder at all is a bad one, even if it’s based on multiple sources. There’s no good reason to preorder any game these days

[@blacktrickstar3468]

@@hobojoe9717 won't disagree

[@avelonzx]

@@blacktrickstar3468I like how you try to frame it in a way that your negative opinion about the bosses is objective, and Ziostorm saying he liked them he MUST be dishonest or lying. Absolutely pathetic entitlement.

[@blacktrickstar3468]

@avelonzx Guessing you didn't fight Adyr (which he even admitted here was trash) or realize most "bosses" become regular enemies after they are defeated. Besides Pieta, the Harrower and Judge Cleric. The bosses were garbage. Definitely not pathetic to be upset about that one chief...

[@TEFFTPATTERN]

I waited since the release to replay Elden Ring and started it this week, started a different type of character than what I ever made (int/dex with emphasis on int) and it was just enough time to forget most of the game while remembering enough of it to not get lost. Having fun with it

[@SleeplessSpecter]

Get your character ready for the dlc. Love your O&A compilations

[@Eladelia]

Hope you keep enjoying it immensely!

[@mkv2718]

Man, I wish I could forget stuff that fast. I need like a decade before my memory clears out 😂

[@TheUltimateRey]

Love the thumbnail 😂

[@emoemo247]

There are a lot of fundamental problems with LoTF (beyond simply the poor optimization/performance). 1. Enemy density, I think they are tuning this down after so many complaints but it really is a slog to get through at times. 2. Enemy encounters. Most encounters will consist of way too many enemies and ranged snipers that can shoot you accurately from way too far away (again I think they are tuning this down). The main problem is it doesn't feel well thought out, all of the encounters feel very similar like they just built a cool area and threw a bunch of the same enemies around haphazardly. In the souls games they try to keep the encounters varied and difficulty comes from *well placed* enemies, not the sheer number of them. For just one example, look at the silver knight archers in Anor Londo for a well designed but difficult encounter that is both memorable and feels like it fits the world. 3. Enemy variety. Put simply there just isn't enough, a game like Lies of P is much shorter and more linear but they introduce at least 2-3 new enemies in each new area to keep things fresh and this continues right up until the final area of the game. In LoTF you might encounter a boss and then it will be reused as a basic enemy in the very next area simply with a bloated health bar and more damage, and regular enemies are reused so frequently with little to no visual difference meaning it is impossible to differentiate them, except that they will now deal double the damage and have 4x the health of the version from the previous area. 4. Combat. There a lot of problems here, but I've heard it said many times that LoTF feels like you are playing on roller blades and I think that is accurate. Every attack comes with a huge amount of forward momentum, some weapons are a lot worse than others for this and it proves to be a huge issue when falling off of cliffs is a frequent cause of death. There are very few things like fable arts that add special flourishes or flashy moves to vary up the combat, most of the game could be beaten by simply spamming the same R1, R1, R1 combo. 5. Weapon variety, is also sorely lacking. I know that sounds crazy and you will probably be like "But there are hundreds of weapons!", but the real issue is move-set remains static across all weapons of the same class and there aren't that many classes of weapons. You might unlock a boss weapon and it will have the same move-set as a regular one handed sword, but maybe has one special move or a elemental effect. Compare this with Lies of P's weapon crafting system, which allows you to exchange any weapons blade with a completely new move-set by attaching another handle. And each piece also comes with a brand new special move meaning you get two per weapon. This is in addition to very unique boss weapons with more completely unique move-sets. There are more issues that I could go into but here's a short list of things I think are pretty fundamental to get right in these types of games.

[@thewretch4081]

I love both Lies of P and Lords of the Fallen (probably enjoyed Lies of P a tad more) But they both have strong and weak points, Lords of The Fallen's level design imo is much better, as lies of P's bosses are better (despite Lords having some great bosses) Zio said it's impossible to first try a boss, I somehow first tried Simon Manus, I did use almost everything I had tho haha

[@schadowsshade7870]

Hmm First time i watched this podcast was great actually 👍

[@JoeMurray5]

After beating lies of p ng+2. I feel a lot of the p organ upgrades should have been standard. Having said that the throwables provide a lot of options. The final secret boss was a dance for me. I recognise that I’m not the average player though. A lot of my friends would definitely give up during the playthrough

[@slimsmoke2218]

Mann the no games until the weekend brought me back 😭 back then had no choice but to go outside and be active and make games up fr

[@HANIMEME]

Loving the profile pic man

[@codingandquesting]

This is so subjective it’s almost journalist level objective 😂 amazing content 🤘

[@williamarmitage7702]

Starfield’s whole story is written by Chad GBT hit HARD. I’ve spent a lot of time in the game enjoying it when I get little glimpses of a great quest and than I’m just left thinking man why didn’t they do more of this?

[@fastenedcarrot9570]

Lies of P and Pinnocchio are set in Italy, Vinigni has an Italian accent. I think he might be the only one but him, Geppetto, Arlecchino, Simon Manus, Alidoro, Antonia, Pollendina and a few others were really good imo. Sophia I think was supposed to sound otherworldly and strange and it makes sense that she does once you've finished the game. Just remembered, the two BRB members who speak a fair bit are very cool too.

[@ranovee2682]

Can confirm, full umbral build is pretty tough but fun, the spells are dope but yeah my character is really really squishy. I’m like level 92 and my vitality stat is only like 26

[@allanbergsma3256]

Congratulations @ziostorm

[@HeyKneeGT]

In the LoP segment, you guys were talking about a boss fight that feels like a dance. To be fair, I haven’t played sekiro or Lies of P, the typically parry/methodical combat doesn’t appeal to me personally. That being said, the last time I felt a boss fight was truly a dance was my first attempt against Champion Gundyr in DS3. I managed to take him down on my first attempt.

[@matthewy2j]

Personally I'm just glad both games exist, and on a subjective level I like both of them so far.

[@GTsvetkovski]

Just to mention the reviews to playtime Zio mentioned - they added a photo to steam that showed 76% positive reviews for people with over 2 hours and 79% for over 10. They deleted that off the steam page 1 or 2 days later

[@randomnobody9229]

People that play a game longer will obviously have higher review scores. That doesn't provide an accurate snapshot of anything.

[@GTsvetkovski]

@@randomnobody9229 What I'm saying is that even then the review scores were relatively low, and they probably deleted it due to backlash

[@randomnobody9229]

@@GTsvetkovski gotcha

[@wyattmorelock5832]

Initial D! I started watching that show with my friend a couple months ago and I'm about half way through, it manages to keep me so interested despite me also not being the kind of person who usually cares about cars 😂 Highly recommend 👌

[@dias8588]

Congrats on the kid. Yes it is entirely up to the person on how "hard" it is being a parent. Recent myself(2yr&1yr) and obviously things change but not like people make it out to be. Still get to enjoy all my games and videos like this.

[@valentinvas6454]

Going above 60 fps can be problematic in Lords. I played with an RX 6900 XT that can go above 60 even at 1440p but the Hollow Crow fight made my game crash several times. Some people recommended to lock it to 60 and that definitely helped.

[@nuh-uhbro765]

I have a theory that everybody complaining about the slow movement in Lies of P, haven’t yet experienced the game at less than 30% carry weight. The difference is very dramatic, the dodge feels faster, longer and with more i-frames. It’s the difference between mid rolling and light rolling in Dark Souls 1.

[@Arsenic7]

On Lies of P’s dodge: I hate the aesthetics of knights in armor dodge rolling everywhere, which is maybe why I preferred Lie’s gameplay over Lord’s.

[@randomaj237]

this is is why I play all souls-likes, from softs games included with light armor, no metal stuff. Rolling in full havel gear is just immersion breaking

[@ArkbladeIX]

Virgin roll fan vs giga twink dash step enjoyer

[@Imminent_Wrath]

2 of my all time fav loresters rata n zio fuckin nice

[@Romapolitan]

Don't forget when it comes to internet access you are the one in control

[@SmoughTown]

Great chat guys - an example of having a reasonable discussion about differing opinions. Hope people can learn from this, and stop getting hysterical about people having different opinions

[@tscdman]

@ziostorm How much were you paid? Be honest you grifting for. Views? But if you honestly think the combat was perfect in LoTF you have lost me as a fan my guy. I loved your Elden ring stuff but you lost me with this one.

[@SmoughTown]

@@tscdman Can I ask you, why are you so triggered that someone likes a game you don't? How on earth does it effect you? Unsure why we can't just have a mature difference of opinion on it. I've seen you in the comments below being unhinged about Ziostorm's pretty moderate takes. I wasn't paid and bought it at launch and I dont think the combat is perfect; never said that - I mainly praised the aesthetic and world design. If I was grifting for views I would hate on it - easiest views and likes of my life. Hope this answers your questions and you get out of this bizarre mindset.

[@combatwombat2134]

​@@SmoughTowndon't bother, buddy. Critical thinking didn't get him there, critical thinking won't get him out. He's just an outraged person, thinks his opinion is paramount, any number of possible explanations. He's decided he hates it and that's it. Everyone who doesn't is wrong.

[@tscdman]

@@SmoughTownbecause I spent 70$ on this game and had to force myself through it. And I made my judgement based on people like you reviewing. Because i respected your elden ring videos and thought it your opinion was legit. But it’s not just you other people like fighting cowboy played it up. Minute 31:50 is where you said the combat was perfect btw

[@SmoughTown]

@@combatwombat2134 You've got to try man, I understand that sometimes people get lost in the sauce abit, get carried away and unhinged. Hopefully brings them down to reality a bit

[@tiagoalvarez7092]

My biggest issue with lords of the fallen is enemy variety. I wish they had done more on that front.

[@johndodo2062]

Lop is better than most from games chief. Sorry to be the one to tell you

[@Wilhelm4131]

It wouldn't exist if those From games exist lol its a copy paste game with a different skin not influenced

[@Eternal_Placidity]

What a goofy thing to say

[@Starflddrms74]

I really respect everything Rata said in his review of LOTF. I hope the changes being made by the devs will win him over to continue.

[@booboo1574]

Yggdrasil Podcast 35 Review- It’s Good

[@HaykInWonderland]

REEEEE

[@user-hs9ge3cj9p]

oh boy here we go...

[@who_hurt_youproductions8826]

The only thing ill say is Lies of P is closer to fromsoft than LotF. Also this is neowiz 2nd game and the fact they got this close says alot. Meanwhile LotF came out once before but instead of a sequel they remade the first one and its still not that good in my opinion. Fromsoft is definitely the king but neowiz is showing promise.

[@lonewolf7396]

LOTF was not made by the same devs who made the 2014 game.

[@lonewolf7396]

Also, it's not a remake in any way, shape, or form. It's in the same universe but is 100 percent different from the 2014 game.

[@gamenfit8661]

Lets go!

[@juneytoolooney2165]

I beat the Corrupted Puppet Master the first time. But I did get stuck at the Lightning sword lady at the end though, i just need to put those attempts(hrs) in. It happened in ng+3 Sekiro when i did the Shura ending.

[@justaquietpeacefuldance]

Yes I do. I hope it's smaller and not entirely open, less bonfires and all of it. Running couple minutes for half a medalion in some crumbling tiny ruins just doesn't hit the same. May it outsell ER 2 xD

[@Red-nl4lk]

That is a crazy thumbnail

[@bunklypeppz]

I definitely found Lies of P to be the most difficulty souls style game I've ever played in terms of the average difficulty of boss fights. Some fights in games like Elden Ring and Sekiro were pretty much on par with that level of difficulty, but it was much more consistently difficult in LoP. I didn't even really start to enjoy the game until about half way through or more when I finally decided to just stop trying to 'defeat' the bosses and just started trying to learn their mechanics and not worry about winning until I could deal with everything the boss could throw at me.

[@jimukas6903]

I just don’t get what zio sees with lies of p, if people are no hitting the game it can’t be clunky imo. Lies of p allows you to play 3 different ways with combat you don’t have to parry at all. I think people get to hung up on that being a thing. I did also do most bosses in 5 or less attempts bar one through lies of p so I dunno maybe im just weird haha 😂