Stuff Lies Of P Does Better Than Fromsoft | Castle Super Beast Clips

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@BestTeaMaker

[@RandomlyAwesomeGamer]

One of the "Your Gears are Shifting" moments I really enjoyed in the demo was when you get the clothes from the old lady and you can trigger it by using the emote it gives you to show off your new clothes to her.

[@tanakaba]

I found a similar effect for praying at the shrine where you find a letter of a woman who died with her daughter, now I wonder what other secrets I missed.

[@aaronsherwood5378]

Pat talks out his ass about the difficulty of the true ending requirements for 6 minutes.

[@Gunzerkingidiot]

Then explain them. Clearly.

[@morteskellington9047]

When *doesn't* Pat talk through them cheeks, though?

[@Kektus1]

While viewers get irrationally angry about it for some reason.

[@markcampbell8590]

Another thing I adore about Lies of p are the small Easter eggs and details you won’t notice. Like if you go near the stargazer after lying enough times you can see P’s shadow having an extended nose.

[@Egalia_1]

I’m gonna put myself on blast and say that I really didn’t expect Lies of P to be good. Thought it was going to be another attempt at cloning the souls formula while missing the big points that make it enjoyable. Nope. Somehow the devs captured souls perfectly and even improved on it in some areas. What a complete victory

[@raccoonofmotivation20]

Tbf, you'd be right as many souls clones don't hit the mark, this doing so was kinda of insane

[@leithaziz2716]

I've never played Nioh 2, but I do know it's been recieved positively by people who played it. Remnant 2 also was great for those who tried it. I've never played prior Souls games, but it does seem like devs are putting more effort into it during this year compared to the past.

[@kylecunningham9793]

Fellas is it blast to change your opinion when introduced to new information and hands on experience?

[@BobIsAnOp]

​@@kylecunningham9793Nah

[@MrLeonLuffy]

Playing the demo you can instantly feel it in your hands they perfectly recreated souls this is not some cheap imitation it's advanced imitation

[@Joe-y]

One of the best things I had seen in the demo was that if you die in the boss room your souls are RIGHT OUTSIDE the door so you have a slightly better chance of getting them back lol

[@vVAstrAVv]

Nioh 2 is even better. You get your souls back upon entering the boss room. And certain items can return you to the shrin with them. Theres even a consumable to just get them back WHEREVER

[@LegallyBlindGaming727]

that's in game. 100% this game loved it so much imo.

[@ShintoArt]

Even with Lies of P's flaws is very easily one the better Souls-likes by a huge margin. It's cool to see a random developer I've never heard of almost nail it on the first try.

[@TwoTwig]

"Almost?" I'd argue it's actually better than some fromsoft games.

[@Deminese2]

@@TwoTwig id argue that its better than literally all of them. Maybe im just tired of fromsofts design but they are not interesting anymore to me.

[@typhonyx_was_taken]

Whenever people say that the last chunk of Elden Ring is bad I get all defensive about how great Farum Azula and the Haligtree are, but then I realize that they’re actually talking about the Mountaintops and the Consecrated Snowfield, and I’m like “yeah that’s pretty valid actually”

[@leithaziz2716]

The issue with the Mountaintops and onwards is that enemy variety becomes a problem. You've already seen most of the enemies the game has to offer and now they start to get put everywhere in Mountaintops and Haligtree, and the balance starts to get thrown out the window in terms of stats. I don't value exploration as much as other Souls fans, but if you are one of those people, there's a big drop in points of interests in those areas compared to prior locations (im only comparing to Elden Ring's own examples, cause this wouldn't irk me in prior Souls that are smaller). Once you fight Maliketh, it's a straight boss rush all the way to the end. Meanwhile Farum Azula houses the Godskin Duo boss, and I think that one speaks for itself.

[@raizekalos5721]

Even then Haligtree is just Enemy Re-use and Damage Bloat the area, and Farum Azula is a grey ass DS3 area, with the games worst boss, and relatively meh enemies throughout, the only good things about those zones are Malenia and Malekith, which even then are contentious among people. ER takes a nosedive in quality post Leyndell and Mountaintops, which sucks because those are also where they hid the cool bosses.

[@leithaziz2716]

@@raizekalos5721 I love Dark Souls 3, but I am not gonna defend the colour pallete lmao. Also you forgot about Placidusax. I don't like him as much as Midir, but he was certainly more fun to me than Malenia or Maliketh.

[@raizekalos5721]

​@@leithaziz2716jeez I completely forgot about that fuckin boss yeah fair, he's alright, but even then I don't think 2.5 decent bosses (fuck Beast Clergyman) really redeem those two areas, which is kinda just an issue with ER as a whole, but it becomes very prevalent in the endgame

[@fillosof66689]

On subsequent play throughs, when I wasn't rushing anywhere or obsessed with finding new gear, I got to really enjoy both the Mountaintops of the Giants and the Consecrated Snowfields. Yeah, the points of interests seem like an afterthought and represent bits and bobs of storylines from all over the game; the enemy variety is non-existent. But the spectacle, the view and the world building the lore teases in those locations make them ideal spots for just riding around and thinking about the game.

[@waddledude9699]

For what it's worth, there is a tutorial when you pick up the first record that tells you listening makes you more human.

[@night1952]

That's pretty lame tbh.

[@johndodo2062]

​@@night1952not as lame as you chief

[@TheGuwrovsky]

Don't be mean, kids! ☝️☝️

[@equinox3625]

Lame how? That they link humanity with music? You know what i think? You lack perspective and that's pretty fucking lame ​@@night1952

[@HalfAluminumChemist]

Id say Lies of P probably has a better final stretch at the end because it has a greater focus on story compared to your average FromSoft Souls game. You actually have a sense of real investment in where you are or what'll happen next instead of just "Ok guess ill just go here now to fight a final boss that appears out of nowhere and had basically no buildup".

[@leithaziz2716]

Maybe that's why Sekiro clicked with me so much. I'm going to spitball some examples as a comparison. Facing the Divine Dragon was such a memorable experience because it was something the game had built up as a goal I had to severe immortality. And then there was the invasion by the Ministry which made me feel bad for the Ashina soldiers getting slaughtered after having spent time with them. The 3 fights with Genichiro also felt more personal because the game had given me a reason to overcome him, and you can see Sekiro improving in his stance before every fight. And finally, I won't spoil the story behind the Demon of Hatred, but his quest and its resolution were very powerful. Not in the "Plin Plin Plon" way, but moreso "damn, I really felt for this guy's plight after having spent hours bonding with him". The Closest Fromsoft game that did this for me is Armored Core 6.

[@LegallyBlindGaming727]

Yes both of these. @@leithaziz2716

[@SeruraRenge11]

I mean, it has a greater focus on story simply because it actually you know, HAS a story with a narrative that it tells. It's not just vague descriptions and worldbuilding like Souls does, it tells its story like normal videogames do where characters actually talk about their motivations and have clearly defined personalities. It's much closer to Sekiro than Souls in that regard.

[@terisian]

I... kinda dislike the final stretch. The whole puppet aesthetic is so amazing that I get super sad to see it all thrown away like that for the final area. In my mind, the game really shines in the first half and then drops of slowly with each area after the Opera house.

[@SeruraRenge11]

@@terisian Eh, I disagree. You're right, the first half up to Romeo is 10/10 in terms of aesthetic and all, but I think it was still holding strong right up until we actually get on the submarine. Then we kinda just enter the ruins from RE5 and are there for the next few hours. The bosses there are all amazing, the dungeon is not.

[@leithaziz2716]

After the release of Elden Ring, I was worried the Souls formula would stagnate as other Soulslikes (including Fromsoft) would choose to simply reimplement the Souls combat, and allthough I like it, it's clear that enemies are getting more complex while the player was still stuck with a moveset that hasn't changed much since Demon Souls. The way this game takes elements from Dark Souls, Bloodborne and Sekiro and puts their own spin on it to create a different experience is so impressive for a 1st attempt.

[@raccoonofmotivation20]

Thats been a big issue in elden ring. I'm worried the next souls game will make you fight vergil but you get a single aerial Stab so apparently it's all good.

[@matthewgaal2970]

Nioh 2 is still the gold standard for combat in games that are a twist on the Souls format. Nothing has really come close since. The Surge 2 was also a pleasant surprise on the combat front, although not to the same extent. It would be nice to see Fromsoft try to keep up in that regard. Regardless of how well others may iterate on the formula, it's pretty clear that From sets the standard, and if they keep sticking to shallow, basic combat mechanics, the rest of the industry will, in large, follow.

[@GM-xk1nw]

you just love to complain about elden ring don't you @@raccoonofmotivation20

[@melancholyman369]

I don't know what you're talking about, the enemies are literally the same except they stop sometimes (stagger) and they have longer combo strings. Enemies in Fromsoft games are always the sane and most soulslikes follow with few excepts.

[@melancholyman369]

​@@matthewgaal2970Nioh was interesting combat wise but the most interesting thing going on with the enemies is the corrption the spread durring combat.

[@spungbicklesmcbrungler5376]

It's kinda strange that for all of Pat's excitement, he leaves out what would get Woolie the most hype about LoP- the weapons. The ability to disassemble and basically use whatever moveset and whatever Fable moves you want would lead to SO MUCH labbing. Also the entire existence of the Two Dragons katana.

[@FurnaxIkki]

As I've explained to other people: Even FROM has attempted in vain to recapture the lightning in the bottle that was the Ornstein and Smough fight, because they keep making it be you vs. 2 bosses. The fight is not balanced around the overall experience. This is why the hardest fight in Wo Long is against those three nobody retainers of the Sun clan. They just all rush you. The Black Rabbit Brotherhood in Lies of P is not you vs. 4 bosses. It is you vs. 4 people who COLLECTIVELY make up 1 boss. One of them will take point, it's obvious who's taking point, and while the others will still get involved, they will not be all rushing you together. Also, Lords of the Fallen is almost certainly going to get killed by this thing. The amount of polish in LoP is insane, and we're already seeing videos about LotF having serious design problems.

[@queencyrys6309]

Lords of the fallen getting smashed flat like last time would be kinda funny.

[@leithaziz2716]

Lords of the Fallen legitimately has some really cool ideas like the Umbral World, combo system and the colour shaders for armours, but it is coming out at the absolute worst time possible. Mainly because of Lies of P, but other Soulslikes like Remnant 2 have also done pretty well. So LOTF will have high expectations, and some of them are fair.

[@Spaced92]

It's not really an idea though, it looks like directly like the Soul Reaver mechanic. Which was pretty cool and should be brought back @@leithaziz2716

[@Kraklano]

"This is why the hardest fight in Wo Long is against those three nobody retainers of the Sun clan." I genuinely cannot remember that fight in even the slightest. Can you refresh me on it? I played Wo Long on release and platinumed it. Lu Bu is the only boss that killed me more than twice in all of the game, so my memory on some others is pretty fuzzy.

[@FurnaxIkki]

@@KraklanoIt's the optional stage where you fight Huang Gai, Cheng Pu and Han Dang, "The Tiger's Loyal Servants". I've heard it's gone through numerous nerfs to make it easier but it was *infamous* in the earliest days of the game.

[@azure98]

To add more context to the music player thing which also seems to keep following the theme. Early in the game the record player is kind of just off in a corner by itself and there really isnt anything to pull the player to it, however, after a certain point Sophia will move over to the record player regularly and the record player begins to emit a golden glow like its trying to pull your attention to it. They really want people to listen to those tracks they put all that money into making lol.

[@LegallyBlindGaming727]

It's not just the record player that glows. The legion arm changer/upgrader thing does too if you have a plug or caliber to upgrade it with. same with the quartsz chair. really nice touch

[@SeruraRenge11]

Whenever something in the hotel has been updated it glows so honestly it's a really nifty way of the game going "yeah you have new shit here"

[@shupasopni]

I guess it make sense considering they were also known for a rhythm game.

[@SeruraRenge11]

@@shupasopni I mean it's where basically all the songs came from, they're just DJMAX remixes

[@Rectal_Splash]

As soon as I stepped into liar-link shrine and spotted the LP player I beelined straight for it hoping it was interactable. Now, discovering records is one of my favorite parts of the game and feels like the best reward

[@leithaziz2716]

My favorite Souls boss that pits you against more than 1 enemy is the Demon Prince from Dark Souls 3's Ringed City DLC. It's basically a puzzle that has 2 demons that switch between states from time to time. One is very agressive, and the other attacks using toxic clouds from a distance. Even though the other demon is offscreen, his attacks have very clear telegraphs that warn you to dodge away when appropriate. And akin to Ornstein and Smough, deciding which demon to kill 1st will affect the moveset of the Demon Prince itself. To me, that's still the best executed gank boss.

[@vyxxer]

Yeah they are a good evolution of O&S.

[@endlesstrash4718]

My only gripes with demon prince is that it wasn't obvious that the kill order mattered and that the harder second phase had no extra reward. Both of these were fixed in the O&S fight by having unique cutscenes and a ring as a bonus reward.

[@night1952]

@@endlesstrash4718 Why should it be obvious? And this isn't O&S, it doesn't need to replicate every little detail.

[@alephnole7009]

The Record player reminds me of the music in Death Stranding if Kojima ranked your delivery poor if you didnt listen to the whole song before making a delivery. Its like "No! Sit down and listen."

[@chrisdaughen5257]

I loved LoP. But I will admit the translation job was rough. You won’t really notice it with the dialogue; I’m sure the devs put extra effort there to make sure the VAs would know what they were saying (early game footage had subtitles that were very hard to read and were partially voiced). But item descriptions and journal pickups are a bit harder to understand. It muddies the world-building. Even in gameplay, there were localization issues as recent as the demo. The demo had an enemy state called Groggy, but it was renamed to staggerable in the release version.

[@EHKOS]

I didn't use the rising dodge for a while because I thought it allowed you to hop over sweeping attacks. A lot of the quartz descriptions need work.

[@tyomega9939]

Absolute cowards, they should’ve committed to GROGGY MODE

[@kneau]

Pat got quite the laugh out of his final achievement: Rise of P. "They have to know?!"

[@TheGunboat]

A lot of the written descriptions feel off, they’re at least understandable but it is noticeable

[@chrisdaughen5257]

@@TheGunboat It gets really annoying in the descriptions that cover supernatural stuff since you don't know if it's being metaphorical or not. On the surface it looks like the Puppet Frenzy has been happening for a few months, but a lot of records and dialogue imply it's been going on for Dark Souls-levels of time. It's hard to tell if it's intentionally foreshadowing something you learn later. Minor Spoilers: The "So Said Pistris" records are the weirdest. They don't really explain why mankind was so angry at the Torn God for giving them immortality. I think they wanted to say most of mankind did not survive having their hearts turn into Ergo, but it was lost in translation.

[@drachma1651]

He didn't even get into the fact that the gameplay is incredibly rewarding and fun to master. Great weapons to use and in general just a great atmosphere really help amplify that.

[@scottharris6116]

I think the records were great collectables. “Feel” was such a good first song, that it made me very motivated to find the others.

[@windowwax]

Loved Lies of P such a great game!

[@sirxmas]

Weapon durability is objectively more engaging than in FromSoft games. Instead of being a chore you have to remember to do on occasion it’s an actual gameplay mechanic in extended boss fights, and can make your choice of secondary weapon a much more interesting decision.

[@weecho8668]

Played the demo and enjoyed it but I will probably get this game when its on sale.

[@ShintoArt]

The game is also on Xbox gamepass, if you have a pc that's a cheap way to play it as well. Definitely worth it.

[@davidlanglois8055]

the perfect ending is less strict then everyone claims it to be, i didnt lie a bunch and still got it my first run. it more depends on a specific chose near the end of the game

[@brentramsten249]

the amount lies of P commits to certain souls like trends... regardless of whether or not those trends are well liked. from serious platforming complete with carcass new londo archers all the way to being able to lock yourself out of certain quests 5 chapters before your even allowed to participate in them. this all makes the fact that its almost entirely linear except for one area particularly strange.... also: you only need like 75%ish of the available humanity, i intentionally told the truth when i thought it was appropriate and still got the white hair ending first try

[@Sensko]

Just beat the thing yesterday. Definitely one of the better Soulslike games out there, but the difficulty feels needlessly overtuned. Cool world though, very Dishonored-esque.

[@raccoonofmotivation20]

True that the game has double health bars early when the player has like no estus. The new patch really helped tho

[@Sensko]

@@raccoonofmotivation20 Yeah the first couple of hours are a slog. Honestly feels like they should have given you a couple of extra estus and the basic dodge upgrades from the get-go.

[@leeverguy]

@@Sensko After playing with the dodge upgrades I'm legitimately baffled that they're *not* standard just because of how some enemies have attacks specifically meant to stunlock you from 100 to death if you don't have the,.

[@SeruraRenge11]

I think a lot of it is just lack of player knowledge. I'm in NG+++ now and while I struggled a lot in NG, in NG+ I breezed through. Not just because of higher stats but just because I knew how the enemies fought now and I knew the perfect block timings for their attacks. The only boss that I didn't clear in 1 try in NG+ was Manus.

[@Sensko]

@@SeruraRenge11 Any Soulsborne game is easier on the second playthrough. Doesn't make having to deal with 7-hit combos of delayed attacks followed by the boss jumping out of range any less annoying. It's not so much about the difficulty level as much as how it is implemented.

[@Makr0ss]

Not only improved on the formula, it also runs BETTER (flawless even) than several fromsoft games at launch. The music from the records is fantastic, it's always a delight getting a new one and put it on the music player back at the hotel.

[@cyberexile3507]

i dont know if this is a long term thing, but im glad you're giving these more straight forward titles now. half the time, it was the only reason i wasnt clicking on a video because i had no idea what it was about.

[@Americanbadashh]

Pat and Woolie explained dietetic, right after I had just looked it up because of them lol

[@bunklypeppz]

I think the perfect block system is something Fromsoft and other soulslike games should mostly adopt going forward in place of the traditionally clunky/gimmicky parry system, for a variety of reasons. I also think Lies of P's healing is fundamentally better than previous souls games, not just because of the fact you can recharge your last heal if you deplete it, which is great imo, but because the heal isn't so slow that you have to rely on a degree of RNG to avoid getting hit like in Dark Souls and Elden Ring. Most people view the slow healing animation is an example of the action commitment that souls games are known for in a positive regard, but I have always considered the slow healing to be a fundamental flaw in souls games, because the fact is that most bosses can close the gap and hit you at will during the animation, especially in the newer games like DS3 and Elden Ring, which means you are almost always relying on luck and boss ai leniency in order to heal on a reasonably consistent basis.

[@jgn]

the sound test being integral for the true ending is the most "me" thing of all time

[@11d3adly11]

I just did the 1st 4v1 boss Pat is talking about ....and yea, they kick my ass a lot , but I really enjoyed it how it when about the encounter

[@SimplySwayze]

Great game, but still very noticeably a ‘double-A’ title; it’s got some rough edges that don’t necessarily bring down the experience, but you still can’t help but notice them. For instance, I’m firmly convinced all the in-game item and skill descriptions are machine-translated based on how misleading and generally _off_ a lot of their word choice and grammar structure makes them feel.

[@leithaziz2716]

It could be an issue tied to language barriers and such. I know Fromsoft is a Japanese studio for example, but some overseas translation issues can still occur among other developers.

[@Riggs_The_Roadie]

Well the devs are Korean and this is their first major console title. I believe they've only done rhythm games before.

[@raccoonofmotivation20]

Its really good, but like evey souls game could always use a few tweaks. I think fromsoft is very against taking notes form other games tho, or at least many hardcore fans are.

[@ButcherGod]

Kinda funny how Pat hated DS2 because a lot of the bosses were humanoids with big weapons... When that's the majority of this games bosses as well.

[@leithaziz2716]

DS2's visual problem is "lots of *Knight* with big weapons". That mainly stemmed from the reception towards the Artorias fight in DS1 leading to Fromsoft overcompensating to replicate that boss. There is some overlap with normal humans that get a healthbar in Lies of P, but I've also seen some really cool and "out-there" designs for bosses. There's one in the mid-game that takes place in a big theater that's a highlight.

[@drew1080]

That's an absurd comparison, DS2 and Lies of P have completely different design philosophies. DS2's designs are definitely more generic and less memorable than DS1 or even DS3.

[@StardustSynchron]

I just finished it. It’s an awesome souls game. I’m excited for their future games :)

[@TheTrueRandomGamer]

People.

[@megamilkxl3414]

this podcast is my saving grace at work thank you

[@anothercaster]

It's actually really not that hard to get the true ending. Pat just talking straight out of his ass.

[@fugnuggets9316]

I enjoyed 95% of lies of P but some of those last few bosses were ehh. I guess when lies of P wants to add a boss they consider hard, they give them anime combos with effects everywhere so you can't see and have an unblockable move where they lunge full screen so you can't dodge. So annoying...

[@richardjohnson8991]

I was actually just thinking about the way AC handles it's multi boss fights and I think there's both complaints to be had but many props to be given as well. In most cases you aren't fighting multiple units at the same time for the entirety of the fight, many starting as 2v2 then your partner has to dip out for damage or plot reasons, while some others start as a 1v1 and at a mid point transition into 1v2. Usually the second boss to come in during those fights doesn't have 3 heals available to them and the encounter is made easier by switching focus to the joining unit and then back to the "main" boss. The largest complaint I've had with multi boss fights in AC is one mission in particular where if you don't clear fast enough you can fight up to 3 enemy ACs at once and it's nightmarish to wrestle back into a winable state. While they don't deviate too much from the predictable presentation of the multi boss fights I can say they at least feel largely more manageable and less frustrating once you understand the fight

[@TrojanGamer10]

Thank you Game Pass for allowing many people to enjoy this game

[@_2fcd_978]

Yeah, I'm not feeling that comment about Fromsoft games getting bad at the end. For Bloodborne and Elden Ring I can kinda see it, but for Dark Souls 3 and Sekiro? No. But we're never gonna agree on Sekiro so it's fine.

[@leithaziz2716]

Oh those games are fine. Sekiro's 3rd Act is amazing, with the final boss being chef's kiss. And Dark Souls 3's second half is a lot stronger than the 1st half, especially Lothric Castle and Twin Princess (fave boss in base game). But I do agree with the other Souls games. Dark Souls 1 completely falls apart after O&S, Elden Ring really feels stretched out by the end and Bloodborne's run to the final boss isn't bad, but it can feel mostly standard untill you get to Gehrman.

[@kahir8642]

Dark Souls 3's dip in quality starts at the beginning of the game and continues until you finish it.

[@kahir8642]

​@@nyarancia I was being a little naughty and facetious there. It's not the worst game ever but yes, I have problems with it and when I have to watch the DS3 echo chamber act like there's no valid criticisms to level against the game I feel the urge to hate on it with the same amount of one-sidedness to satisfy my dark urges.

[@Spaced92]

Bloodborne has one of the best endgames though. Unless you do the chalice dungeons, which we all probably started grinding ...

[@SuperBrutalCabbage]

@@kahir8642that’s a bit childish my dude.

[@nolanlehman6392]

Absolutely adored this game. Easily one of the best souls games and one of the best of the year. Very excited to see what they do next

[@UCannotDefeatMyShmeat]

Man, shadows of yharnam was great in teaching how to deal with 3 ads, much appreciated that they eventually become regular jobbers too.

[@Flackon]

ad fights are one main boss, with extra lesser enemies. By definition. Ad = additional. You have additional enemies to what's typically just the one "big" boss

[@miguelnewmexico8641]

ad is advertisement. add is addition.

[@braytastic]

There is a hint that pops up and says listening to music makes you more human! Leave it to Pat to find SOMETHING to pester

[@fernandozavaletabustos205]

The post-release patches have done wonders for Lies Of P!

[@Griever49]

I am glad the game was picked up by Microsoft to be on gamepass, it means they got money up front for it and they might have already paid for the development just from that, so, all these sales they are getting is profit for them

[@ATMOSK1234]

I tried lies of P beta and the combat didn't really click with me.

[@LegallyBlindGaming727]

it didn't' with me with the demo but I impulse bought the game and loved it after a while.

[@SeruraRenge11]

Maybe someone else can confirm this for me but I think Lies of P might stop scaling after NG++, because I'm on NG+++ and I don't notice any difference in ergo dropped or enemy hp/damage. I feel like Scrapped Watchmen should've hit me for WAY more damage if it continued to scale but he was hitting me for like 20-25% of my hp at best for non-fury moves.

[@coleviloria3800]

My friends won’t shut up about Lies of P and I’m still on the fence on getting it.

[@bluegrave4376]

I still haven't beaten lies of p ,and now there's lords of the fallen coming out as well as spiderman 2 and then star ocean 2 remake shortly after. I can't keep up lol

[@leander403]

Yeah, lies of P was just incredible

[@TheMrTangamandapio]

calling "the last 15% of every souls game" bad is such a ridiculous claim overtuned? yeah, they kinda gotta be, maybe not, i can't think of a better implementation, and they could be better "really bad, and you kinda forget about them"? absolutely not

[@oggser8050]

i wanna get into this game but i truly and honestly cannot get over the fact that pinocchio looks like a timothee chalamet twink. like please for the love of god why couldnt he have just been like a wooden guy. or like a 10 year old boy or something

[@attackofthecopyrightbots]

damn been a while since we had such a good thumbnail

[@alwynjaegar1778]

Of course pat forgets that everything fromsoft has made started with kingsfield 1-4, lost kingdoms 1 and 2 armored cores and every other game they have made led to dark souls..... bloodborne and elden ring... the only reason lies of p even exists is because from soft have spent nearly 30 years making the same game but next time better....

[@CrispyChaos38]

Honestly I tried the demo and just hated the sekiro style block mechanic. Really cool game overall but that makes it so hard to play. That said I agree it improves on some aspects but I hesitate to call that stuff “improving the formula”

[@nikkikat2210]

Pat just watched the how does king crimson work video 😏

[@JustforKikX]

Picked up Lies on a whim, and so glad I did. It has flaws, but goddamn is it a good game.

[@tonystarrk4859]

I'm sorry but "the way enemies react, the enemy variety" is such a bullshit statement. Lies of P makes no discernable improvement on those two things. If anything Sekiro is the gold standard for how enemies react given the built in deflect system certain enemies have. The Ashina Isshin and Father Owl fights have the ability to dodge attacks as well as deflect (Owl will mikiri counter you if you telegraph a thrust attack, and during his long vertical slash he will turn and spin if you dodge too early). Even ER has Malenia who will dodge back and most bosses have flow chart like moves based on your positioning (like Maliketh and Margit). Radagon and other enemies will also parry spells and if they have a shield they will perform counter attacks. Enemy moveset and reaction design is one of Fromsoft's strongest qualities along with level design. Also, Lies of P does not have more enemy variety than DS3 or ER. Regarding the "last 15%" comment, Sekiro and DS3 have amazing late-game areas and bosses. I'd even argue that ER's late game bosses and legacy dungeons are pretty great (besides a few exceptions).

[@Jack-dj5cd]

Agree to disagree about the last part of elden ring being less quality than the rest but definitely looking forward to bloodborne Pinocchio edition

[@SnowyJop]

Late game has some of my least favorite boss fights in the game for sure.

[@pokesonav]

What the hell is "ad fight"???

[@MrFox-ox2ze]

it's "add" fight. where you start off fighting a single boss, but as the fight progresses other smaller 'bosses' with their own health bars will jump in and need to either be dealt with or force the player to focus on the main boss, who's death typically kills all the adds

[@arthurgomes5188]

You know, over the years i've heard of some pretty weird requirements to 100% a game. But. Never have i ever heard of a game that went *"hey, listem to my mixtape"* if you wanted to get the true ending for it.

[@leithaziz2716]

Metro games: *Allow us to introduce ourselves*

[@JF-vz1ju]

There are some pretty wacky ones out there. Drakengard required that you collect all 60+ weapons in the game, many of which are hidden behind absurdly obscure hidden challenges.

[@Sir_Atlas]

Sorry Pat those boss fights involving those 4 bosses together was probably the worst fights I’ve ever seen in a souls game ever but i could just be bad at the game. Either way really enjoyed lies of P, probably the best souls like game not made by from soft

[@Nothuplay]

I think the "idea" of it is pretty cool but it kinda is not well enough scripted? to work ""as intended". The amount of moves and things in that fight is actually great though. (each of them having their own weapon and "supers" really gives it flavor) The biggest downside to Lies of P is how linear it is and there is extremely little exploration and obviously 0 "wandering" - so you better keep grinding the same things until you can get past or you just stop playing Also thinking AC6 doesnt have a massive slog "mid-game" is kinda weird. You get your weapon setup figured out and then you have like 3 fights from around the end of the 1/3 to the very end that actually are interesting/challenging. But about 70% of the game you are just coasting through. Pat also communicates the music player badly: The discs are unique high quality tracks not "ingame" tracks and not just diagetic.

[@leithaziz2716]

I don't think much will beat out the Graverobber gank boss in DS2 in terms of terrible ganks, or the Valiant Gargoyles poison attack in ER. So off of that alone, this is probably better than you might think.

[@Nothuplay]

@@leithaziz2716 Its more about how he is overselling it. I think its ambitious but in execution doesn't function properly. Like Ornstein and Smough functions better even if it's less ambitious than the Lies of P one.

[@MrDanTheManWhat]

Liza Pea

[@jagehtso]

A someone who mostly enjoys the Souls games for their amazing exploration and is utterly tired of "OMG SO HARD" apparently being the only design lesson other devs (and most players honestly) are taking from FROM, Lies of P just left me completely cold and I dropped it about halfway in. I don't care as much about combat being tight and satisfying. I do prefer it, but it's ultimately just a means to an end for me. And for how much emphasis the game put on its combat in lieu of many other things, it frankly didn't do enough with it to keep me interested.

[@kahir8642]

Same. Souls games are a "more than the sum of its parts" type of experience, the core style of gameplay was (and imo still is) too limited to carry a whole game, and it only works because of the world design and so many other peripheral elements working in tandem. I find Soulslikes very boring when difficult action combat and boss fight fetishization are the only influences they take, even with whatever refinements they make to it.

[@Daniel-vx5vc]

There are other elements that LOP takes such as thoughtful level-design, but I strongly agree with you that it feels like they went out of their way to make the game harder than From's games, even Elden Ring in my opinion. Some of the bosses near the end I simply did not enjoy fighting.

[@Ribboppity]

Wait. The last 15% of Elden Ring WASN'T good?

[@JF-vz1ju]

According to crazy people.

[@johndodo2062]

The shadows all have their own health bars so that made no sense

[@Darkerxz]

also Pinocchio is hot in it

[@shadowandsin3593]

Great numb nail!

[@alexkogan9755]

I like that Pinocchio actually uses his weapons when performing executions. It took me out of Bloodborne when the hunter just used his/her bare hand for the visceral attacks. Like why? Take that sawblade and blunderbuss and shove ‘em up the pig monster’s @$$!

[@JF-vz1ju]

Because it's raw as fuck, that's why.

[@alexkogan9755]

@@JF-vz1ju I mean regular bare handed attacks hardly did anything so to see that happen kinda messes with the immersion. Just saying.

[@TysonRex37]

Imma be honest: I really hate Lies of P’s combat. Maybe it gets better after the factory’s last boss but after beating it I felt no sense of accomplishment, only a sense of “God I wish I was playing Sekiro instead of this.” So I went and re-beat Sekiro and it was a way better time.

[@meadow6760]

I think it a great game, I dunno about it being a perfect game or goty but personally I would rate it a 8/10. There's plenty of things that need balance fixes (I played at launch so it may be fixed by now) as well as some bosses that are simply poorly designed. The last 10-20% is as bad as you expect a souls game to be in that last section. Personally I take issue with the game being too linear as well. All that being said, it's still the best soulslike that doesn't come from Fromsoft. Nioh doesn't count cause those games feel closer to Ninja Gaiden than Souls and if you were to compare Nioh to this I like Nioh waaaay better personally, those two games get a 9/10 from me.

[@lukelmaooooo]

Stuff Lies Of P Does Worse Than Fromsoft: forces you to play as a femboy

[@guysome7469]

Still not as good as Nioh 2 though. But Nioh 2 is the current king.

[@ledzeppelinfan1001]

You're right...its better 🤷‍♂️

[@lbcyber]

Pointing to Chai is quite possibly the worst choice Pat could have made to describe diegesis

[@melancholyman369]

Pat is lucky he isn't a game journo, he'd never make a dime.😂

[@Scaevola9449]

Lies of P recycles the hell out of basic enemies and combines the most annoying parts of Bloodborne and Sekiro boss design. The weapons are good.

[@MegaPieru3000]

It's not like Bloodborne at all besides couple similar designs. If I went into this expecting more Bloodborne I would have been very disappointed.

[@DJBlastotron]

Honestly, Lies of P might beat out Bloodborne for me. The Sekiro-esque defense system works really well with the aggressive enemies (and isn't a limited resource), the handle/blade system was way more compelling for me that the transforming weapons and actually had me considering how I approached each boss rather than just picking the one form I liked like I would 9 times out of ten in BB, the aesthetic of the puppets/creatures does more for me than werewolves/eldrich stuff, and they make every stat feel actually USEFUL, unlike Arcane.. Like Pat mentioned last time, it even has a really cool take on the Estus/Blood Vials system! I also appreciate a more straightforward story with more direct setup and payoff. It's a game that doesn;t just copy stuff that the Souls (and Sekiro) games do, but it feels like it actually considers them and how they work, and how they would work in THIS game. My only complaint is how the game is way more balanced towards a Dex build cuz you have NO armor on your heavies.

[@questingmoo]

For me it just sucks since i can't really get into games without a character creator anymore, so Lies of P is just not an option due to autism

[@bustello_o]

Is it better than the best souls like though? (It’s Sekiro btw). Also about time a game force you to listen to a song all the way through, no one does that shit these days even though everyone should.

[@Sonicfalcon16]

Single handedly stole the bloodborne PC audience

[@JF-vz1ju]

Not in a million years. This game will never be Bloodborne.

[@TheMaestro116]

"Stuff that Lies of P does better than Fromsoft" So nothing then...

[@caiopatric]

at least watch the video..

[@kmoney890]

Spoken like a true liar

[@Dragon4234]

Imagine defending Lost Izalith

[@rat8294]

@@Dragon4234 I don't think anyone is defending that

[@raccoonofmotivation20]

"The ergo is whispering"

[@blackdragoncyrus]

Like.

[@snurgumwurgum8238]

even if lies of P is better than I've heard, which I doubt. These are some of the hottest, stupidest, most wrong-est takes on souls-borne games I have ever heard.

[@ledzeppelinfan1001]

Wrong.

[@kingofbel6499]

I hear good things about it but eh, I tried the demo when it was available on Steam and didnt enjoy it at all. Felt like a pretty weak Souls clone, and I am not a big fan of the enemies in the game. The robots/puppets enemies to me cannot be comparable at all with say Bloodborne eldritch creature. I feel like people are just praising this game because we still dont have Bloodborne on PC.

[@Rathial]

Lies of P is great to me it stands above D3 Sekiro and Demon Souls/DS remake

[@sssdrake]

after reading some of these comments i want to say something to everyone who scoffs at the mere idea that anything could best fromsofts souls formula, im very happy you feel that way, you aren't burnt of souls like the rest of us, were dead tired of it and are begging for something new.

[@leithaziz2716]

I still come back to Dark Souls 3 often, but I would very much like Fromsoft to do more stuff like Bloodborne and Sekiro. The latter is my favorite game they've made and it's a shame it didn't get a DLC. The boss rush mode was a great addition though.

[@ShintoArt]

I wouldn't say Lies of P clearly "beats" any one entry in the Souls series but its certainly does many things just as well if not better. It was clearly made by people who enjoyed those games and understand why they're good. I also wouldn't say I'm tired of Souls either, if I was I wouldn't have enjoyed Lies of P as much as I do.

[@CrypticSquid1]

Yep, it sure would be dreadful if From only ever made Souls clones and not something like, say, a new Armored Core title.

[@ethantaylor9613]

It’s a shame the game has a really dumb name

[@edma8922]

This whole thing were we collectively pretend Fromsoft has done anything new to improve their combat since Bloodborne is really cute. The bit is growing a little thin by now, but it's a good bit.

[@TysonRex37]

Literally the only Souls-like since Bloodborne was DS3 and Elden Ring what the fuck are you on about?

[@JF-vz1ju]

You posted cringe. Feel bad.

[@sdragon21]

I’m gonna put this out there: Lies of P is leaps and bounds a better game than any of the Souls titles FromSoftware has put out. Yes, even BloodBorne.

[@kahir8642]

Really easy to be better than Bloodborne.

[@Sercotani]

@@kahir8642 I don't know what you mean since I never played it, but if you meant the game being locked at 30 fps, yeah sure.

[@TysonRex37]

Lol. Lmao even. It’s legit the worst Souls game I’ve played.

[@LordlyWeeb]

Eh.

[@JF-vz1ju]

Me when I lie:

[@ButcherGod]

The atmosphere is amazing, but the combat is worse than the Souls series.

[@Xhog0]

Maybe it’s cynical to say but forcing players to listen to the entire soundtrack on a music player as a requirement for an ending seems pretty fart-smelling on the developer’s part. It’s on the level of having unskippable cutscenes

[@fernandozavaletabustos205]

How so?

[@DwarfDaddy]

Okay that stuff with the records is pretty friggin cool. I knew about the lying mechanic but not that

[@SirSamVimesSA]

The humanity requirement to unlock the "true ending" is fairly lenient, the only thing with a very strict humanity requirement is the secret weapon.

[@DragSmash-Games]

You don't have to stay near the music player, you just need to put the song on and let it play while you go level up and upgrade your gear.

[@oilimenoruega7836]

That listening to music requirement reminds me of how the Metro games handle the "moral" system. Where it's less about doing a morally right or wrong thing and more about having a more complete picture of the world, and doing things that connect to what is humanity, with it's good and bad things

[@ZeeboonInc]

Does the game feel better than in the Demo? Because I didn't finish the demo because the dodge and parry felt like ass there and basically convinced me not to buy the game.

[@leithaziz2716]

Yes, they did improve the feel after the Demo's feedback.

[@ZeeboonInc]

@@leithaziz2716 Aight, I might pick it up on a sale then. Thanks for letting me know :]

[@JareGraphics2013]

The Black Rabbit fight becomes way easier when you realize that you can backstab the other three rabbits.