Lifting Like A Bro Is DESTROYING Your Functional Human Movement - Functional Patterns

[@tonyz4292]

The issue with functional patterns is how annoyingly arrogant some of their representatives are, for me it’s hard ti take them seriously when their reps are constantly making extravagant claims based in opinion and constantly down talking other people’s approaches in the exercise space

[@c.callanan4008]

Agreed. I much prefer Ben Patrick and KOT, much clearer and less nebulous in his communication. FP is just confusing.

[@mainsourcery]

@@c.callanan4008are you worried about personality, or results & in-depth problem-solving?

[@ericmalitz]

@@mainsourceryas he said- nebulous. These guys are intentionally avoiding clear explanations. They also completely misrepresented ATG.

[@tuukkakankkunen2869]

This podcast was so hard to listen to because of their attitude. I feel I didn't receive any value as they just kept repeating that they are the best and others are wrong - without giving any actual explanations why it's so.

[@tonyz4292]

@@tuukkakankkunen2869 “according to the said principle” lol

[@DanteCeballos-z8d]

Nsima had some really good questions & the way he challenged and was open minded to some of functional patterns ideas was amazing!

[@Parallelthinkers]

Yea they tried to minimize his words but failed

[@Itsallagame1984]

i thought the same the bald guy was really annoying borderline ignorant interrupting Nsimas sentences. I listened to this before i watched it and thought exacty the same...

[@joshuaduggan3099]

If these guys really believed in functional patterns, they would have shared at least half a dozen exercises that people could do to get started. they only care about selling their program and making money.

[@Jordan42947]

Shout out nsima on this episode

[@raymondsmith2040]

Yeah they kept seeming to try and pigeon hole his arguments for lifting with just mentioning the deadlift. Outside of strength sports athletes don't deadlift often at all. Why do they keep bringing it up?

[@bestwesterner]

Still doesn’t take away from Naudi being insufferable and many of their practitioners acting like they’re in a cult. Glad to hear this discussion though, thanks fellas.

[@seamussullivan2218]

Yeah, that’s a solid point. It sometimes get hard to separate the message from the messenger… when the content is just hard to get through from a personality standpoint…. But I’m doing my best to get the content …

[@slings7149]

Cult means culture, and naudi being insufferable to you just means you're too emotionally invested in your behaviors to consider what he's saying.

[@bestwesterner]

@@slings7149 ah yes, let’s go with an alternative definition of cult and then assume I haven’t considered the cult leader’s points. Please let me know how you like the kool aid!

[@tragiceso5121]

@@slings7149that’s a possibility, that dynamic exists, but it’s a reach to act like it applies here with any certainty

[@snusnu39]

​@@slings7149 Cult means culture? Did you get that from Terrance Mckenna? The origin of the word in Latin seems to meant worship, like the modern usage of the term meaning devotion to a person or group. Like functional pattetrns which considers any other form of training than theirs wrong, and basically only listens to Naudi.

[@atlaspowershrugged]

So my question for these guys is what's your best sprint time? Whatever distance you think is most functional. What's Naudis?

[@bestwesterner]

I’m sure Naudi would have a big brain answer to wuss out and blame his cranium shape or something

[@CeroAshura]

Shame on you, your comment is just a bad faith attempt to mock him. If he didn't have sand in his vagina he could easily outrun Bolt.

[@stevenschuster]

@@bestwesterner LOL. I enjoyed that.

[@sigepcane]

Naudi commented on a video once regarding sprinting, and he said they don't assign sprinting as an actual workout. It's like training to improve your jump shot in basketball, but never being allowed to shoot.

[@ChefMikie]

You truly don’t understand functional patterns until you actually work with a practitioner. I work with Mike and I can’t explain how much he’s done for me in just 7 months. Lifelong issues/ pain from grappling and weightlifting are gone and I’m only getting better at the age of 36.

[@thatchefdmart]

The 10 week Functional Patterns program is also amazing if for some reason youre unable to work with a practitioner! Keep up the great work Chef Mikie!

[@functionalvanconversion4284]

💯

[@thirdderivative87]

@@thatchefdmart🔥🔥🔥

[@thirdderivative87]

🔥🔥

[@athletipack973]

Facts. Don't knock it until you try it!

[@ryankeaney8584]

I enjoyed the part where Nsima mentioned some other coaches who actually get people faster at sprinting... Like how world class track and field athletes actually train... And they basically said 'that's cheating because they actually practise sprinting' and 'training that way has no longevity' At the same time they are obsessed with the said principal in a way that tries to turn strength and hypertrophy exercises into skill development exercises... It ends up being worse at all three goals... But still an okay way for average joes to work on their posture and gait mechanics. The real measure for them is something like 'does your running match our technical model when we play it in slow motion'. There's a grain of truth in this approach as Nsima and Mark point out... Its great to be mindful of movement quality, to stay in touch with some of the movements that we evolved for and to move in a variety of different planes. After 6 month working with an FP trainer... I was reminded of some movements that I'd neglected and Ill now use some of what I learned from them as mobility/corrective exercise (based on throwing and sprinting patterns) alongside the reliable 'meat and potatoes' of squating, hinging, pushing, pulling, dragging, carrying, olympic lifting, tumbling, yoga and stretching.

[@Ryan-wx1bi]

My grifter/snake oil salesman alarm is going off in the first 10 minutes. They spend too much time trying to convince you and using weird scenarios to make their stuff seem better. By the way, the reason normal weight lifting "hinders" your movement is not the lifting... Its the lack of mobility routines/stretching. Lifters never do that stuff. I guarantee the hybrid athletes that lift/run/mobility train/swim etc will blow your people out of the water in every metric

[@bestwesterner]

But stretching is the rEaL ePIDeMiC! 🤡 🌍

[@ericmalitz]

Yes but by mobility you better mean “structural balance.”

[@c.callanan4008]

If you baffle people with enough complexity, then I guess a lot of people will just assume that you're right and they just don't get it yet. It's a useful marketing tool and it keeps criticism at bay. The anti-yoga stuff is just weird.

[@Arturo_Fonseca]

100%

[@devyntate8260]

I went into this podcast knowing nothing about FP. After the podcast I still know nothing about FP…

[@jeffharris8617]

What were you looking to learn

[@TCM3273]

Basis of FP "trust me bro".😂😂

[@ssxsdf234hleskwe3]

Completely agree with this statement. I spent half an hour looking at their youtube channel and website and I still don't know the basic movement patterns that are the basis for FP

[@rubenperezgarcia8137]

You know one very important thing... TEN WEEK COURSE!! hahaha They are starting to look like Greg with the freaking "buy my coockbook" 😂

[@jeffharris8617]

@@ssxsdf234hleskwe3 Thats an easy one- its standing, walking, running and throwing as a priority

[@ChocBomb]

Get Paul Chek on the pod so we can listen to somebody who can make sense, give us a mind blown perspective and has the education and life experience we can actually respect.

[@slings7149]

Paul check is outdated, that's why FP has taken the lead in the fitness industry for years already

[@squashduos1258]

Paul Chek’s take on his beloved “Duck bill” lol!!!….

[@SocceratesTFS]

@@slings7149 FP has taken the lead in being the most mocked pseudoscientific system out there, that's for sure. You are all dreaming if you think it's going mainstream anytime soon. In the fringes with lazy Gen X'rs it will stay.

[@justinfeldman3777]

Agreed

[@jonchapman8344]

These two guys seem like gym bros that arent strong enough to do the basic barbell lifts; so they make up something else to grift upon unsuspecting men who dont want to do the hard things.

[@steveo5999]

There is zero chance that Usain Bolt’s body has the capacity of producing enough force to deadlift 1000 lbs. this is a simple torque vs hp mathematical hypothetical. The fact that the little dude said that with such certainty tells me to disregard anything he says

[@PiethagorasTearem]

He would be able to deadlift a 1000lbs in total over several reps 😂

[@CodyBunker]

The fact he also stated Bolt would have been faster if he trained functional patterns is also asinine. The thing he gets wrong with bolt is that bolt produces 4 to 5 times his bodyweight in force with every step. But this is significantly different than producing force to deadlift 1000lbs

[@larrytate1657]

@@CodyBunker I hate when people act as though a theory is one hundred percent fact. This video is mostly theory.

[@CodyBunker]

@@larrytate1657 also the fact that they have to tear down any other method but their own in order to promote their method shows they are not to be taken seriously

[@sweatyatoms7719]

Also his explanation of mitochindrial function and all the other stuff in those 5 minutes was total bullshit! He doesnt knoiw the difference between water and protons (hydrogen ions).

[@BluegillGreg]

Mark and Nsima, thanks for hosting these guys. Although they obfuscate more than illuminate, their topics are worth delving into and are thought provoking. I've lifted for 53 years to support my sprinting and power in various ball games. I've lifted consistently for a long time, but not super heavy, and mixed with a lot of athletic training and a variety of other training. In my late 60s this turns out to have been an excellent approach. Thanks for widening your focus and putting strength into a wide context.

[@dooooooo123]

Never trust a scientist who is this confident about everything they say. Especially when they're selling something and mention it this often. A good scientist will always errr on the side of "maybe this is right" rather than "this is definitely right".

[@TheRichardc123]

It’s absolutely incredible the types of magic “Cure all” that people will buy no matter how nonsensical and ridiculous it is. Train hard - stretch - rest when injured - don’t mainline drugs- drink mostly water - eat enough protein - avoid processed crap - be consistent with your efforts. This shit is not hard.

[@paulpallante3394]

Really interesting podcast. The shorter guy is myopically obnoxious and tense about everything though. Doesn’t seem like the kind of mind that a system based on fluid movement should develop. Some of the concepts seem super valuable though, and I appreciated the discussion.

[@aw8one]

His delivery sucks. Definitely could work on some communication skills for sure.

[@Itsallagame1984]

small man syndrome.

[@AlfonsoDiSaliz]

Thats because Naudi is the same way, they all act the same, the system is great, i would like to try it in the future, but the people in the top of FP like to be ostentatious, it gets boring to me to listen to them acting like small kids

[@Arturo_Fonseca]

@@AlfonsoDiSaliz Novel movement is great. Get a basic Kayezen, Synapse-CCR, Raptor (vertimax) and if you have some cash Kaiser system and go through all the movements they teach in their system. Augment a safely done S&C program and you'll save thousands, like clost to $30k if you were to want to train in a very rigid (legal) system like FP. Waste of time. You can find out most of their fictional patterns by studying the youtube video's. They're all movement chains that are completely arbitrary and novel. Like learning a new dance, the brain gobbles up learning new ways to move, and that in and OF itself is good for you.

[@kyndred-ry5mm]

going to the gym for 38 years now am 52 ,always went heavy ,stop doing it at 46, now just do high reps less weight and i feel great injurie free now

[@bigdaddytrips6197]

Same here , I'm 45 now I just lift moderate weight , benching 225 for 20 reps pause perfect form , pushups, heavy bag and I'm strong as hell. I also quit doing deadlifts and squats and I'm still getting bigger and stronger👍

[@Arturo_Fonseca]

Injuries are almost always load dependent with complexity dependency. If it's repetitive at some point increasing load is going to challenge the tissue past their ability to compensate. This isn't a secret. That's the only problem with conventional training. You do general conditioning to gain size, power, strength, etc, and refine it with sport specificity. It's also not rocket science and the practice is well documented and evidenced. The same mechanism that will injure you with conventional training will injure you with FP; too high a load with complex movements that your body cannot handle. Aside from that the fictional patterns they have come up with are novel and the brain likes novel stuff. Take a basic course in rotational training, you can even learn through systems like Keiser machine, Kayezen training systems, etc, they have a ton of free video's and augment your conventional and SAFELY done strength and conditioning with novel movements and you'll be fine without forking over $250/hour for some wanna be trainer to take you through a made up intuitive fictional pattern or save $20k from having a megalomaniac like Naudi come up with stuff on the spot pretending it's a derivative of gait. Naudi, you called out enough people with your tripe. Karma's a bizzzh bro.

[@ericmalitz]

24:00- “The hamstrings don’t only flex the knee…” No but it’s about 50 percent of what they do. They also help extend the hips. So do both knee flexion and hip extension exercises, in full range.

[@Arturo_Fonseca]

Exactly, they don't even understand basic muscle kinesiology, and they go on about "Gait and hierarchy of movement" none of which they have a clue about.

[@Faroutathletics]

These dudes would definitely drink the coolaid, no hesitation.

[@hulkhogan4947]

Kool-Aid

[@Working_Dad_fitt]

Nsima was giving them all the flaws in their marketing with every question. If they were to fix those flaws they could help more people. And helping people with any physical fitness program should be the goal.

[@PickyfromTerminology]

Flaws in marketing. Not flaws in the practice. What do you want? The best product with below average marketing? Or some garbage product that will break but has great marketing hyping it up better than what it is? That’s the problem with the fitness industry. All the shit that’s damaging people is marketed like it’s the best thing ever.

[@CeroAshura]

​@@PickyfromTerminologyprofile pic says it all. Looking like the average "i'm training functional bro" that can't pick up a 200lbs sandbag

[@mainsourcery]

@@CeroAshuraMike, one of the guys speaking on behalf of FP in the video, can lift a 200+ pound sandbag. Honestly it’s not hard to lift something that heavy once you dial in on optimizing your sprinting mechanics through FP.

[@slings7149]

​@CeroAshura that's the problem, you can't see past your nose. You immediately disregard what is said here because of his profile picture. It's typical for the bodybuilder / gym bro to do. There is value in "perception is reality" but if your ability to discern what's useful and what's not, you'll be easily mislead.

[@stackerstrong]

As I appreciate the info these guys present, I think it's kind of horseshit how they tout everything and almost look down upon EVERY other modality of training. And no matter what Mark and Nsima say, this guy just immediately shuts them down and/or corrects him. Coming back to finishing it - it's really just this Rodney fella. Dude just cannot get over himself or let someone else be right. Even when Mark and Nsima make a reasonable comment that IS right first thing out of his mouth "NO"... dude you have good information, let someone challenge you and relax.

[@FunctionalPatterns-d4q]

100%

[@williammurderfacemurderfac162]

They said it at the beginning of the pod. They tried tradtional lifting and it was too hard for them and so they made this stuff up to cope. Whenthey made the connection between dysfunctional movement patterns and dysfuctional thought patterns, it hit me wrong. It's the whole method of selling your training modality, demonize the competition and promote yourself, anything else is wrong or "dysfunctional". We want to get into anthropology? How about how we aren't designed for walking upright but our bone and muscle structure is designed for quadropedic movement, we're minimally adapted for running upright. Are overhead movements functional? Imagine how an animal runs, it reaches out in fron of it's neck, which is an overhead movement pattern for us. I think people should be aware of their movement but things have worked and continue to work for decades and that's SBD. These are simple and functional moveement patterns. A bar eliminates variables that come with the natural world as they put it. So that with controlled parameters we can better prepare for uncontrolled variables. An atlas stone may be more similar to a natural lift but again the shape of the stone, the height and the weight are still the controlled parameters. We know that running is damaging to the joints and so is throwing, because we aren't fully adapted to these patterns, making the same arguments they have for SBD the same arguments that go against their methodology. Is a baseball pitch better than a football because a baseball more resembles a rock? This is so pedantic it makes no sense. There is a place for Functional Patterns in fitness but it's not a replacement. Nothing will ever replace the SBD.

[@timeinlou758]

He’s just adding context. Thought it was a good fair discussion

[@seabooters]

@@williammurderfacemurderfac162 Hi, what is SBD?

[@williammurderfacemurderfac162]

Squat, Bench and Deadlift​@@seabooters

[@Voidrunner01]

Not even 7 minutes in, and the unsubstantiated bullshit is already starting. FP loves to just throw out a bunch of terminology that doesn't actually mean anything. It's the old "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit." They also love to harp on the whole "Well, when I lifted weights, squats and deadlifts caused me so much pain and dysfunction", but none of them are ever willing to concede that maybe they were doing the movements wrong.

[@LawrenceAugust_]

3:39 "function for a dog is different than function for a human, different than function for a bird..." Jesus Christ. We all know that we're talking about humans today, bro. 😵‍💫

[@PickyfromTerminology]

You say that but just because a human has two arms and two legs they assume they can do anything under the sun with that because of ‘free will’ like choose to do yoga or powerlifting. Go to Africa where people hunt in tribes, they’re not arguing that deadlifts will help them life heavy rocks over there like the westerners. They’re running and throwing for hunting.

[@cryptobull738]

Yeah his a fool

[@Arturo_Fonseca]

He calls his system "Training for humans" because everyone else is training giraff's, of course.

[@DrkstrX]

Do they have free videos of exercise routines that are core to movement that i can work on? I haven't found any. I'm not going to pay for a course neither. ATG puts out all his information out there and still has courses.

[@cholkymilkmirage4984]

no, its just videos of them working out but not showing how to do it, from what they said in this podcast is that its not as simple. Ppl need to learn from the very bottom of the barrel, but ALSO doing the movements isnt the first step. The first step is to myofascial release the adhesions and hydrate the body, then move correctly.

[@DrkstrX]

@@cholkymilkmirage4984 they can make in depth videos, lots of people do. I'm not going to pay for their stuff until i can see proof within myself.

[@spacec0wboy94]

You get what you pay for

[@DrkstrX]

@@spacec0wboy94 i get a lot of valuable information for free regardless. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Missing out on this isn't the end of the world

[@slings7149]

​@DrkstrX if the free info you've got was working, you wouldn't be here asking for more free stuff

[@ChipSpencer123]

Ben always talks about going from pain-free to a more difficult activity as a progression. I don’t like it when people make it sound like they’re the only legitimate way to an end.

[@alistairmorris9469]

They might not be the "only" legitimate way. I used stuff from David weck and Tim shieff to help with my CFL impingement. FP helped everything else though. No more hip pain, no more knee pain. A guide to understand my own stress responses and recognition of my own patterns, both physiologically and psychologically

[@terrygraff8696]

Exactly. These two come across as narcissists to me. I couldn't even lay down or move in 2009 and avoided surgery with yoga/DP yoga and have seen yoga work miracles for many. I couldn't even do the complex movements FP puts on line at the point I was at and was told I couldn't avoid surgery. I did. I have progressed over the years and now have started to use Ben Patrick to move better and I have went from not jumping to a vertical leap over 22 inches at 56 years old. Whenever you say you are the only choice I instantly smell narcissist egos. Their videos are over the top attacking people and also makes me even more skeptical... and their are 100's of kinetic physicists/biomechanical people on YT who disprove them, also. I will keep listening to Dr. Stuart McGill and other people with decades of data and other influencers who don't act like God's over these two.

[@HarjSethi]

@@terrygraff8696 Those people you mentioned haven’t shown results with people over a long period of time, it’s usually short bursts of results, and it exacerbates other problems. And then you’re left to find a new solution to the new problem after years. I’m only saying it because I’ve done everything you’ve mentioned & I know where it leads

[@terrygraff8696]

@@HarjSethi 1. Dr Stuart McGill has been a doctor for longer than one of this guys has been alive and has done more to stop unnecessary back surgeries and do more for training and rehabilitation than anyone alive. Oh, and he still deadlifts. 2. I have done yoga and tai chi with people over 90 who still move fluidly with strength. Both those practices have been around for 1000's of years and can rightfully boast to adding longevity in strength and life span. Dallas Page just added more strength moves to it. I have done it for 15 years and still making gains in strength and health and ZERO injuries while still lifting weights. I don't need this koolaid when I have proven things to go by.

[@BluegillGreg]

Which guy is ""Ben?" The guys in the studio are Michael, Rodney, Mark, Nsima, and Andrew.

[@dr.ryanbland6973]

functional patterns has great concepts. however naudi is a bit a whole man child I'm sorry bro but he is flippant online for views only because results don't get clicks. he also has this weird obsession of trying to prove everything else sucks and has a man crush for years on knees over toes guy. its all or nothing beware of the cult. have had some conversations with him and he acts militant and is always ready battle which is cool he is passionate but its to his own demise. puts other professions down, its just a horrible look ! i took the online courses and worked with practitioners for years but was told I still don't understand it unless I come to 2 $5000 training seminars 1000 miles away. with anything take it with a grain of salt. why would you limit yourself to one method? learn some tools that work best for your body and move on. the main function of this modality is to incorporate single side movements, build core strengthen but most importantly train lateral movement which tradition weight lifting misses

[@michaelanthony4750]

Pretty interesting. This is the only argument in this entire comment section that addresses what I was wondering thanks.

[@Arturo_Fonseca]

Dm me. I have gone through the training too and am writing an expose on it, delineating what is actually useful from what is bogus and just surplus. I've found better rotation training methodology in Kayezen.

[@Ekam262]

Wow, I had just came across functional patterns about a month ago, and intrigued by their method of training, since not a lot of info is out there online, other than it focuses on the fundamental movements of running, walking and throwing. This podcast is great

[@raphaelrongau]

Cool man, give it a try, it helped me fix my shoulder, back, hip and knee pain. 100% would recommend

[@solslastcannula5665]

From the get go, this was an uncomfortable wash. It was so awkward I think I need to go shower now, goodbye

[@jameshutchison5048]

If you were fucked up from doing basic weight lifting by the time you were 22, that's pretty pathetic. Probably more to do with you personally than lifting weights. That's common sense.

[@jzen1455]

These guys are just bitter about injuring themselves to the point of not being able to do barbell movements by their early 20s and had to find another way to get their gym fix and was drawn to doing more "functional" exercises and poo pooing barbell movements as "dysfunctional". It's true barbell exercises don't 100% replicate how we move in the world, but they are close. And you can't deny building strength and muscle regardless of how you do it (and barbells are an excellent way to build muscles and strength) helps with other movements we do "naturally".

[@duck_gainz_m8]

Yes, I screwed up a lot until I was 22 too, after that, I learned to properly train for strength, with deadlifts and squates, worked on mobility and now I'm stronger than ever,@ 34 . but I follow the 20% rule. 20 percent squat and deadlift, the rest other exercises and gpp, Westside style

[@raydarby8642]

Amen 🙏🏼

[@stephenschuster9929]

It's extremely pathetic. They must have been lifting like complete clowns if they were too injured to continue at that age.

[@jzen1455]

@@stephenschuster9929 Nah. It's because barbell movements aren't "functional" man. Only functional movements are 100% and practical.

[@justinjames4446]

Tired of fitness people selling their brand of exercise. Mr Bell, I am not sure if it was intentional or accidental, but I am thankful that your show exposed these two. The training they present may be "nuisanced" to specific athletes, but not for my 53 year old body with arthritis and 30 year old sport injuries. I will stick with the basics. Thanks for all you and your team do. Take care!

[@sh-bs6uj]

You got those injuries because of how you been training

[@seabooters]

@@sh-bs6uj 😂

[@larrytate1657]

@@sh-bs6uj how do you know

[@Arturo_Fonseca]

This should be all someone needs to hear to discredit their all of FP is "gait derivatives". Naudi once said that a round house kick is a derivative of throwing and gait. LOLOL. No. No no no and no. Totally ignorant of human movement in one sentence alone.

[@kyled9357]

I listened to their podcast, one with Naudi and dear Lord… it certainly seems they bring something to the table for fitness and movement quality etc, but certainly some of the most narcissistic people I’ve seen in the fitness realm in a long time. Thanks for asking the hard questions and intentionally or not, exposing the strangeness to their salesmanship. if it smells like cow dookie, it probably is…

[@RudyMettia]

65 years old, 500x3 just today….

[@PonyBoy10]

But man made squats iz bad, realz bad.

[@georgeevans4396]

This was a hard listen the entire podcast, every objection in favor of pro FP was absolutism/elitism at its finest even when they were confronted about it they couldn’t get away from it. With that being said any new idea to strengthen the body without extra an increase of harm/injury is great.

[@Arturo_Fonseca]

FP has novel movement, which the body loves if you approach it properly, simple to complex, low load to higher load and mix those two principles safely. There's thousands of ways to accomplish this without giving a narcissist $30k for a fake certification that carries no weight except with equally narcissist people.

[@stevenichols8887]

Seems cult-like.

[@Arturo_Fonseca]

Naudi followes Jaque Fresco an anti capitalisn neo-socialist technocrat, who wants technology (AI) to decide how resources are distributed to a working class that mostly does nothing except run the machines on a lower work week while accepting government handouts. Fresco is a mole to push through globalism and these lazy snowflake generation kiddies are gobbling it up. They think in this "new world" they can fictionally pattern themselves into ascension and enlightenment to nirvana. Believe me, they're wholly brainwashed. Naudi has conflicting ideas as a capitalist ($20k for 4 Human Non-Biomechanic Specialist random training courses) secret-sauce methodology that attracts wanna be trainers and therapists, and in this world there is a lot of them to choose from. But he spouts the beliefs of a globalist socialist that wants a machine to make decisions for us. Why do you think he doesn't get all the projecting he does? He confused.

[@ethangunner8464]

Man I've been really interested in FP and this was kind of disappointing ..These guys make it seem like a cult and can't sell their product without knocking everyone elses. I'm sure they have some great training concepts but the tried and true are still around for a reason.

[@theastraladepts]

hit the nail on the head, they talk shit about everyone that isnt them

[@raphaelrongau]

Hey man I totally get where you’re coming from, I used to hate the way the founder speaks as well. Then I finally gave it a try, and I swear I never changed my mind since. I solved shoulders pain, hip pain, back pain, knee pain… I know they are very hard to listen to but find a FP practitioner near you and see for yourself

[@terrygraff8696]

It is a cult! It is their way or you are stupid.

[@LasagnaLover9]

@@raphaelrongausame here totally didn’t like the way naudi talked but now I only do fp and kinda understand why he speaks that way. I’d relate it to like when all the people were all about masks and scared of catching covid like you understand why they don’t want to give up there masks are are scared of Covid but there’s so much evidence on things that are going to get you better results than using the mask and why Covid isn’t that dangerous especially if you use other methods to make you healthier. But people hang on to it, cause it works for them, they make money off it, it’s apart of their identity? Idk but to has really changed my life for the better.

[@michaellopez-lq5fn]

One of the main problems with something like a deadlift for an athlete is not necessarily that it makes you stiff, it’s more so that you’re giving yourself a likely massive recovery debt for something that will have less transfer to sport or life than some other exercise you could have done with that time and recovery. Ido portal moves objectively better than any fp practitioner I have seen, and he lifts some. These guys have such a narrow view of what is functional.

[@spacec0wboy94]

Ido portal can’t train anymore because he’s in so much pain

[@michaellopez-lq5fn]

@@spacec0wboy94 not sure where you’re getting that, I certainly haven’t been keeping tabs very close lately but I haven’t heard anything like that. You can over do any type of training, even fp.

[@spacec0wboy94]

@@michaellopez-lq5fn he said it on Andrew Huberman if I’m not mistaken. You can over do anything yet there’s hundreds of people who’ve been doing FP for 10+ years and thousands for 5+ years who are visibly still improving.

[@michaellopez-lq5fn]

@@spacec0wboy94 I too improve at the things I do and do so while avoiding major injuries. Sometimes I overtrain in a session but rarely long term. I do things that are actually enjoyable too. Climbing, martial arts, skateboarding, hiking. I like HOW fp addresses contra and ipsilateral movements as far more significant that pushing you saggital stabilization to the max.. but I think there are better ways to establish that foundation and then better activities than fp to express that foundation. In my opinion you would have to be incredibly jacked up to need more than 2-3 years of foundational work. Most people could have a solid foundation of movement and engagement in 3 months- a year. Then from that point it’s about finding things you love to do and maybe supplementing your training with things you don’t get in your activities This is the way to satisfy the principle of specificity maximally in a persons movement longevity.. not fp.

[@Arturo_Fonseca]

@@spacec0wboy94 Prove it.

[@AceBarnesFITMEPT]

I've been powerlifting since I was 9. I'm 60 now and still compete at a high level. If you were dalling apart at 22, you were doing it wrong. It had nothing to do with the bench press. Functional and power work well together and compliment each other..fyi, I still squat 800lbs.

[@PonyBoy10]

Likely stress induced, lack of recovery and doing the weights too fast, too high a load and without proper form. All easily corrected with a bit of education or having someone who understands how to progress basic movements, complexities and loads.

[@ericmalitz]

Mark- ham curls and sprinting- (full range, well-performed, measurably progressed) ham curls absolutely facilitate progress because they create “bulletproofing reserve” in knee flexion. It strengthens the connective tissue behind the knee, so it facilitates progress in ANY activity. Pain-free movement is the first step to progress. Other guy mentions squats not “translating” to running- it doesn’t matter; a full range, measurably strengthened squat improves the connective tissue in the knee. This facilitates potential improvement, in ANY activity.

[@FightorFlightPod]

How is a ham curl full range? There’s a degree of rotation when it comes to a sprint, AND it’s one leg at a time. A ham curl doesn’t account for everything happening in the upper body or the force requirement that goes along with it. It isolates one contraction in the system of gait, and programs the nervous system to fire both contractions at the same time, which literally never happens in a sprint.

[@ericmalitz]

@@FightorFlightPodham curls change depending on the torso position. In a lying ham curl, you can move through from a fully extended leg to pad-to-butt. If you did a standing ham curl with a monkeyfoot, you’d simply bring the weight as close to your butt as possible. In other words the hamstring curl has a relative full range. But watch people do hamstring curls in the gym and see if they care about attaining as much range as possible. You have no proof that “it programs” anything like what you’re thinking. The purpose of the hamstring curl is simply to increase strength in the hamstring muscles (AND connective tissue; though we should also do nordics for the latter.)

[@chrisarp4111]

As a strength coach for 30 years we practiced what I call HIT Hybrid training. We used HIT, Westside, functional training, corrective training, and many other protocols. We fit the protocols together like pieces in a puzzle. This idea that only one system works is flawed.

[@wellnurturedwoman]

FP has greatly improved my life.

[@innercompass9]

I gotta give credit to Paul Chek and his system of 7 Primal Movement Patterns: Push, Pull, Twist, Bend, Squat, Lunge, Gait.

[@slings7149]

Fp does it better and simplifies it. Stand, walk, run throw

[@innercompass9]

@@slings7149 how do you know that?

[@refinethemachine]

​@@innercompass9Yea Paul Chek's system makes more sense to me, it's not so rigid. These guys talking about there being no straight bars in Nature and therefore people shouldn't load that way seems contradicted by them using dumbbells, resistance bands and cable machines. I get the idea but in that case get outside and lift some rocks and sticks, dig a hole, draw a bow, cut wood and carry water. You could start your own training program and get people to do your yard work and hunting haha

[@HumanOptimization]

Have you ever see these fpers sprint or throw? ​its actually quite sad. @@slings7149

[@mainsourcery]

@@innercompass9look at FP’s results. That’s how better it is.

[@michaellopez-lq5fn]

What’s striking me in the comments is the polarization. Either these guys are the way or they are total quacks. It’s not so black and white. They have a point and recognize the problem pretty well.. this doesn’t mean that their solution to the problem is correct or all encompassing

[@rubenperezgarcia8137]

Yeah, a lot of the things they claim and practice are completely logical. They are annoying, fear monger stuff and even arrogant enough to claim wild things like the Usain Bolt take, but people don't want to recognize what they do good. Functional training (doing a hard pattern of movement that forces you to balance and notice how your body moves through space, and with time learning how to explode from that point) is more important than what people want to recognize. I guess that a combination of the bad traits I commented before and that they are always claiming how good they are among them at any post (Oh, yeah, I forgot the 10 week course, you can only get FP knowledge if you pay 200 dollars, nothing less) is what makes people talk shit about them. Black or white as you perfectly said before.

[@Arturo_Fonseca]

The problem is overloading a repetitive movement. At some point tissue failure occurs. That's why we periodize. Simple.

[@HarjSethi]

I did all the traditional weightlifting for 5/6 years. I got more Glute growth, power output increase, less pain, everythings been wayyy better with FP for 2 years. It’s not even close, it’s just everything’s happening behind doors. I used to listen to this podcast for years until I started FP, my only regret is I wish I had started FP sooner to avoid the lumbar compression etc. Thanks guys for the great pod 🙏🏽

[@functionalvanconversion4284]

💯

[@0kneelbeforezod0]

Lol, sure. Totally not a cult, right?

[@HarjSethi]

@@0kneelbeforezod0 it’s funny. everyone that I’ve met that says “cult” has no logical counter to the points put forth by the company… or any results.

[@Arturo_Fonseca]

Load 60lbs in the frontal plane and add rotation, let me know how well your lumbar shearing goes ;)

[@ericmalitz]

26:10- “..not in one direction, but all of them.” Right, and you can’t reproduce a jujitsu match in the weight room/training area. Arbitrarily performing complex rotational moves (with arbitrarily chosen angles) is not the answer.

[@mfhix]

This does not pass the smell test for me. Seems like these guys have brought into the cult of personality. They keep bringing up sprinting, how many people get injured sprinting, why is that their talking point

[@gripacademyaikidojiujitsu]

10:20 early UFC were hand picked opponents in an event that the gracies designed after years of research in a foreign country. There many proponents of judo and Sambo that would have played with royce. There's no Jiujitsu of anything.

[@henryg3702]

Even an elite muay thai fighter at the time.

[@Arturo_Fonseca]

@25:11 longitudinal loading spooky language bias at work. Like longitudinal training is always all wrong. WRONG. Your body rotates through walking, of course, any basic kinesiology class will explain the multi planar movement with walking. Walking up stairs, is LONGITUDINAL in direction. Why demonize Longitudinal training. When a construction worker squats down to pick up a cement block, or valley stone weighing 60lbs he wants to move longitudinally mostly, because that kind of load on the spine, repetitively, through rotation can cause discal and facet issues....DUHHHH. Give us a break with demonizing some movements over others. If the body is capable of moving that way, IT IS FUNCTIONAL.

[@mike4962]

Sorry, but a farmer cleaning bales of hay onto a tractor bed is bilateral and functional.

[@Arturo_Fonseca]

100% and in hockey they always knew the farm boys were the better hockey players.

[@isaiahdillard4598]

Right, was having this thought. God didn't design humans aren't built to only walk, run and throw. Farmers are a great example of it.

[@RushWasABand]

You all missed the actual argument. FP is not against deadlifting. FP is against Barbell Deadlift as a main exercise. They don't mind if you want to lift bales or stones

[@mike4962]

@RushWasABand they are against bilateral moves because there is no rotation resembling the gait cycle. So cleans, deads, squats. All are bad for you in FP

[@SocceratesTFS]

@1:46:00 there is no explanation on what's going on because they don't know, like at all. All they say is that it's a derivative of gait and throwing when there are literally dozens of their movement patterns that are neither, in any way. They pretend to have a secret so that they can attract others that want a lazy way to becoming an "expert". All of these types are chronically critical of everything else that they have no expertise on because their panacea heals everything. They are also allergic to research and actual science. For the same reason.

[@Garageconditioned]

The hubris of claiming you could make Usain Bolt faster. Come on, the fucking GOAT. it’s easy to make claims that will never be tested.

[@mainsourcery]

Functional Patterns can be scaled in any direction to fit the needs & solve problems to suit the client. From a guy like Kyle Dake to an elderly person with Parkinson’s.

[@cholkymilkmirage4984]

The claim is that their training could make him faster than his training. But end of the day he is always going to be fast asf cause he is Usain Bolt. Like Lebron will always be Lebron. Lebron could play hopscotch for his resistance and strength training and he will still be destroying

[@MihirS84]

I remember Bret Contreras making a similar claim as well. He said Bolt would've been faster if he incorporated hip thrusts in his training routine 😂

[@ladev91]

​@@cholkymilkmirage4984so if he did no training for a year and ate like shit, he would be just as fast as he is now? That's what your saying basically. Of course training has impact on the athlete. Natural abilities plus the training is what makes you good. It's not either or.

[@tpyatt11]

@@MihirS84😂😂

[@Arturo_Fonseca]

@23:41 Dwayne says that squat doesn't involve rib rotation. Breathing rotates the CT junctions in themselves, but that particular FUNCTIONAL PATTERN called a squat isn't targetting rib rotation because it's not an optimal goal of the movement. Squatting to pick up heavy loads should involve bracing more than spinal rotation which can become strained from heavy loads, like I said in my previous comment, picking up a 60lb valley stone, or other equipment. If you want to talk primal movement, do you actually think there was never a need to pick up something heavy from the ground? Wood for shelter, animals you just killed, etc? Taking a shizz involved squatting. It's as functional a pattern as there is. It's the goal you're after. Overloading ANY movement repetitively and with too much load than you can handle can lead to injury. That's your only argument really, and it applies to FP movements too. Luckily you just jump from one movement to another "intuitively" so it may be less likely that a repetitive strain can occur, but most certainly if you load those patterns with too much weight not giving respect to what training cycle someone is in; beginners for example should learn simple to complex movements with low load through high load for safety. If you load an FP movement pattern with too much weight (kettlebell, etc) you're as big a risk for injury as any other conventional training method.

[@SocceratesTFS]

You talking about the dude that can't look anyone in the eye? He's one of their head practitioners and teaches classes. Oh man, it's just straight up money grab now without any shame isn't it?

[@LatimusChadimus]

I do enjoy feeling strong at every angle, as well as able and resilient at every angle.

[@thenorthstarbody]

Question for @michaelmucciolo809 and/or Rodney -- Could you clarify how training resistance primarily on horizontal force vectors relates most closely to gait? Wouldn't the primary forces we're acting against during a sprint be gravity (via hip flexion) and the ground (via hip extension)? And wouldn't the majority of the horizontal and rotational forces be more byproducts of such, rather than intentional force production? I know there isn't necessarily an agreed upon model of the gait cycle, and I'm really interested in a clearer picture of FP's. Thanks!

[@PonyBoy10]

Well if you watch some of their articles they'll train "sagittal plane" by picking up a heavy medicine ball in front of them with their spine fully flexed, which is worse for shear in the lumbar spine, and then lift it up and throw is through the transverse plane over their shoulder putting a lot more stress on the other spinal joints. How on God's Green Earth can you dismiss sagittal plane movement then go and do it and add a twist/rotation to augment it making it significantly more risky? These people are simpletons of the highest order.

[@Paul-Weston]

Train so i can have a physique like one of these two, ummm, no thanks. The guy with a beard looks like some kinda skinny-fat guy who's never set foot in a gym. The little guy who knows, he's got a big sweatshirt on. Dr. Mike Isratel is about the same height, but even with a big chunky sweatshirt on you can see he works out.

[@MarthaSwolert]

I Oly lift, Sprint and run and swim. Im on a surfboard a few months a year and a snowboard another 3 and am ripping at 41 years old with no recurring injuries. Thats functional to me.

[@Andrew-y1q9f]

Does anyone know if Paul Chek has ever been on this podcast?

[@ChocBomb]

Paul can actually make sense and science unlike FP.

[@calvintrainer1212]

I am 68 and I always think I exercise to make my movements better. There's nothing wrong with being more builts than an average person but I am not into bodybuilding for the sake of having big muscles. I add Olympic style lifts to my routines and totally love it, on top of some calisthenics exercises. I've seen guys that did 32 plates on the leg press but they admitted to me they could barely run if they have to. I rather be able to squat clean double my bw than doing 1000 leg press. If you're over 50 and move around well, have great energy, able to run/jump without pain and stronger than an average person you're doing it right. For me personally, every aspects of fitness at 68 is currently much better than my much younger self.

[@Azwrestler106]

Been waiting for this one for a while now thanks for making it happen Mark

[@bestwesterner]

It’s up there with the GOATA conversation. Very, um… esoteric

[@Arturo_Fonseca]

@@bestwesterner Chalk full of spooky secret sauce language.

[@nikomitropoulos5292]

What if you did functional pattern exercises but with heavy loads and bodybuilding style tempo, sets and rep ranges? Would get swole and also not lose function

[@duck_gainz_m8]

You should take a little bit of everything and use it, don't say this is wrong, this is wrong... Of course, if you constantly do deadlifts and squats, that's not okay. Several types of exercises should be used as taught by Loiue Simmons. 20% are squats and deadlifting and bench. Especially the heavy ones.

[@eenotana3563]

Great talk. At the turning of every Paradigm, there's always tension between ideas ... but think we can all agree with this emerging idea: "Address the System not symptom" ... Nobody 'owns' that, just like nobody owns Bitcoin (look into it) ... We're just realizing it together.

[@TCM3273]

"We can take Usain Bolt as he is right now and make him faster". So you're saying you can take a fully developed world class sprinter and make him faster but none of that is attributed to the foundation of athleticism that has already been developed? 😂😂 Yeah ok.😂😂

[@RhinoSea]

please tell me you aren't a man over 20

[@larrytate1657]

They should be able to take any very athletic 13 year old than, train him and have him break Bolts records in 5 to 6 years time…..

[@Arturo_Fonseca]

Precisely. Then Dwayne, or whatever his name is, repeats "But did the exercise make him better or was in inspite of the exercise" basically saying that Bolt or others who make speed gains after power lifting approach would have done it regardless. I guess they're super human because it wasn't FP who made them the best, then, was it? Good circular arguments and tons of contradictions.

[@mifster83]

the problem with the gym is that its so static, most ppl use machines and maybe some barbell/dumbbell work, but there are so many other movements.

[@benboy582]

This comment section seems to have been raided with pro-FP members. Just an observation for those reading through.

[@mifster83]

Its so true, most ppl thinking theyre doing something positive but in reality they would be better of not going to the gym training like they do. they train in one plane of motion, they use limited range when training, like the parallell squat building their body like a refrigerator, then they pick something up from the floor and tear a muscle wondering why that happen since they think they should be fit

[@Arturo_Fonseca]

No in reality it would not be better off. There are a whole plethora of positive physiological aspects that happen with resistance training. What they would be better off doing is augmenting their training with something novel so that they aren't just doing the exact same thing every single time, or progressively overloading to the point of tissue failure. That is the crux here, and it is possible and has happened with FP too. You're getting caught up in a meme. Sitting around and doing nothing is significantly worse than basic resistance training. Basic resistance training is very good for you. You can come up with all sorts of variations for training the major muscle groups, and not all are linear, that's a trope.

[@Arturo_Fonseca]

cable cross overs are not one plane of motion, just one example of not knowing what you're talking about.

[@killmat1c]

All movement is functional. If it can be done, it is functional. A bench press is functional. A squat is functional. A curl is functional. First red flag: anyone that uses the word functional in the title. Second red flag: talking shit about the forms of movement you are selling.

[@sh-bs6uj]

A bench press definitely isn't functional in life

[@davidbensamuel4144]

@@sh-bs6uj you never pushed something away from yourself ?

[@FightorFlightPod]

Well there’s probably a hierarchy of movement tho, right? Theres probably some movements that work better than others? Some movements that present a higher probability of dysfunction over time? Why not optimize? Everything about this podcast is human optimization, from the content to the ads. Why wouldn’t that apply to what you do in the gym?

[@dooooooo123]

​@sh-bs6uj it is when something heavy falls on you. Becomes very functional and life saving in that moment. Is a pushup not functional? They're both a push through horizontal plane.

[@Arturo_Fonseca]

Right!

[@WaltLQ]

My question is, and I love FP. I hated on FP several years ago because I was ignorant. Then I bought The Power of Posture and followed FP and all other exercise modalities. My question is, for the sake of time and for people that have limited time due to having a family, work, etc. what's the best bang for your buck? For the sake of time. Is it doing FP for 20 minutes doing certain exercises and then switch it up each time to keep the variability in movement to not get stuck?

[@Arturo_Fonseca]

Power of posture, where he teaches you to suck in your stomach and hold your breath to activate transversus abdominus (all wrong)? Yeah, lol. Bracing techniques that have been disproven wholly.

[@joaoleal4835]

It seens like every post they talk about FP there is alot of comments from them that looks copyed

[@bestwesterner]

I know that Naudi audits the comment sections on FP posts and relentlessly blocks any opps because he has small pp energy

[@1024mileslong1024]

I asked if the athlete he was using to promote his training methodology was an FP athlete. Got called stupid and was blocked. Super small dicks over there.

[@uexkeru]

"hi I'm 140 years old I used to bro lift and was so stiff until Naudi FP cured my pain completely now I can compete in junior baseball again WE ARE NOT A CULT"

[@EdwarkingOFitness]

The concept of buying back your time is smart! My girlfriend and me live together (in our 20s), and both work 50+ hours a week and after comsuming your content, we decided that we're going to not only invest in our education (skills and knowledge) but also menial tast automation. That means house cleaning, laundry, cooking, etc... will be deligated to more fitting companies that are reasonably priced and fit our current budget. Our parents think we're crazy because we're going against the "poor" norm and its all thanks to you Mr.Dan thank you!

[@kennethwilliam505]

Only a sith deals in absolutes

[@slings7149]

FP doesn't impose beliefs on reality; they apply their concepts based on physics, which isn't up for interpretation.

[@AlexanderDominisac-sg4xi]

@@slings7149as a practitioner I will say that physics objectively may not be up for interpretation, but our map of physics is.

[@brawndothethirstmutilator9848]

@slings7149, We’re not dealing with planets, we’re talking about the human body. As such, the laws of physics must be channeled through biomechanics and kinesiology - which are open to interpretation.

[@AlexanderDominisac-sg4xi]

@@brawndothethirstmutilator9848 to be fair biomechanics is largely modeled via kinematics...which is what's used for any multibody system, originally planets.

[@Arturo_Fonseca]

@@slings7149 LOL. Load of bullshizz there slings. That's what they tell you, while completely demonstrating the opposite. If your basis for this is that all movements they do are done in the gravitational filed (mmm Physics y'all) then sure...otherwise wholly looney tune argument.

[@PonyBoy10]

Do you know when most back injuries occur in the winter? Right, during snow season when mostly deconditioned men go out to shovel their driveway and end up with inflamed discs and Apophyseal joints from doing too much load too quickly. They're loading through sagittal and horizontal/transverse planes, often in a split stanced bending over the pick up the snow, then rotating to disperse it. That's the same thing that you're talking about @26:05 Rodney. Let me simplify this. Take one of your FP sagittal + transverse movement patterns, and give it to someone who has never done it with a 20lb kettlebell and count the reps it takes before you injure them. There you go, now you have an understanding of how people really get injured doing conventional training. They go too hard, too fast and injure themselves do to poor understanding of both technique and progressions. The fact that you guys claim you mostly take people through the movements with low loads is how you mitigate injuring people. Same principle applies to conventional. Now you know, but will that stop you guys from spreading lies? Doubt it.

[@bodyup360fitness7]

Im slightly confused with what these FP arrogant guys are stating! They actually are finding 0 value in strength training for a weight lifting perspective with numerous scientific studies which supports this! To the point of squats and deadlifts and bench presses yes i can see how these can be problematic on the body if you are doing too much weight especially as you age. However you should be able to perform strength and resistance training with other functional movements and or training effectively. They seem to have a problem with strength training as a whole.

[@Arturo_Fonseca]

Science is a conspiracy theory to keep the industry gainfully employed, according to Naudi, in other podcasts.

[@suppersday]

Thing is, I want to look like I lift weights, it's just the look I want. I have poor genetics for building muscle (don't have evidence but I think I'm built more of slow twitch fibers) and I need to be lifting weights 4-5 times per week to maintain the body I want. I also play badminton, run, swim, but there is nothing wrong with resistance training being the focus for most people as long as it's done safely.

[@AerialBot-wm2sh]

The most fuctional pattern of all is running 400 meters of full sprint ,I wonder if this two ever try that .

[@AlexanderDominisac-sg4xi]

Also important to note that FP looks like it’s just about reducing asymmetries, but the reality is that FP is about tissue hydration and how that affects longevity.

[@jotisingh3125]

One hour in I have they haven’t even explained what functional human movement is. Don’t waste ur time.

[@benniecampbell7309]

I agree with these two gentlemen on the left. As a 58 y/o gentleman, I've always said what these two are saying, but you don't hear this spoken upon in the weightlifting/bodybuilding world. Much respect to these two and the show for having them on.👍👏🤝

[@JackOfAllWeights]

Stretching is the worst thing you can do😂😂😂 these dudes are crazy

[@Arturo_Fonseca]

FP is rotational stuff, made up patterns, and novel movements, but it has hurt people too. Look at synapse ccr, it's less than $400 and you don't need $20k to train with it, providing bilateral movement through multitude of kinetic chains. FP is over rated.

[@PonyBoy10]

Kayezen is one of the best, scientifically sound with proper explanations and will keep $30,000 in your pocket, but you will probably need a conventional education which takes time and isn't a trademarked system that pretends to have all the answers. Only fools are attracted to FP and it will always stay that way because of the people representing it talk like simpletons with half, or less, understanding of the concepts they espouse.

[@ericmalitz]

A la Poliquin and ATG- the key in all this fitness discussion is structural balance. If you sit all day, your body will adapt to sitting; you will throw yourself out of structural balance. If you bench every week for several years and never measurably progress your rotator cuff, expect issues as you deviate from your natural structural balance. If you HALF-squat every week for years, and don’t measurably increase hip flexor length/strength, lower leg strength (your body’s literal foundation), hip mobility (hip flexors again; adductors, etc.), then expect issues as you deviate from your natural structural balance (Mark mentioning the squat as “basic human movement” misses that everyone here are only considering half-squats, not full range of motion squats trained measurably.)

[@whodoyouratemore]

So if you don't follow their methodology what will happen to you?

[@julienmaugirard2067]

Great video! "You either conditioning it or de-conditioning it".. this FP thing has me very curious.

[@lukibear2130]

By 22 years old lifting was too much for them? Wow. 😂 Made it 9 mins…. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t compete - Stan Efferding

[@LasagnaLover9]

So everyone who does traditional lifting will get hurt? Why do it then if you’re not planning on competing? I think traditional lifting is marketed as to make you more “healthy” If that’s so if I’m trying to get stronger for wrestling why would I risk hiring my wrestling career by doing traditional lifting? If I’m brown to get hurt I’ll pass doing regular lifting

[@lukibear2130]

@@LasagnaLover9 👍🏻

[@slings7149]

L​@@lukibear2130

[@larrytate1657]

@@LasagnaLover9 because If you weight train smart with perfect form you won’t get hurt. If anything you’ll get hurt way easier wrestling. I’ve been lifting natural since I was 18, I’ll be 42 soon. Lift 5 days a week I’ve never been injured to the point I had to stop lifting. I has tennis elbow once and it went away on its own and has been gone for a few years now. Just had to take it lighter for two weeks on my back and tricep work. Still going strong. There’s guys 20 years older than me in my gym still lifting weekly. Granted they have to go lighter as they get older but they are not injured and are stronger and more athletic than average 62 year olds.

[@LasagnaLover9]

@@larrytate1657 I understand wgeee you are coming from still there health is degrading and there having to use less weight than before people in Fp are getting better as they age

[@Arturo_Fonseca]

in the tube entitled: Why Function Matters Most | with CEO & Founder of Functional Patterns | Naudi Aguilar Around 2 hour mark Naudi explains how he was suicidal at one point and suffers from depression so an amount of compassion is necessary here. He didn't help himself by attacking people online to promote his brand. All the negative press he's brought upon himself was his own doing. The problem without proper mental health care is that he's developed a guru complex and delusions of grandeur mostly from misrepresenting quantum mechanics, biotensegrity, and Jack Fresco's technocratic world view where money no longer matters. Interestingly, Naudi defends free market principles in building his "movement" business. There's a lot of contradiction in what he says that he doesn't fully realize with, and he projects a lot. The best thing he can do is find a competent mental health professional to help him. Keep moving in novel ways because it obviously helps him, along with the conventional training he admits to doing on the Bret Contreras debate video...more contradictions when he rants against conventional S&C.

[@_JMann]

Seems like Mark(and his crew) is such a genuine guy. We all struggle with something on our path but, he’s getting pretty good at his approach to life and people which may be different from his preconceived ideals it seems.

[@tpap6827]

I will say it again Olympic weightlifting is one of the highest skill sports that expresses the most Force production and power and also leads to athletes having the most flexibility throughout their shoulders and hips who also have incredible vertical jumps and incredible foot speed when it comes to the first 10-15 yards. Those guys are training with submaximal weight and using most of the time they spend practicing the movement over and over again which wires their nervous system to produce lots of force without having to train with bone crushing weight every day

[@SocceratesTFS]

They don't care that power is important in sport unless you're swinging a tornado ball or kettlebell while jumping from one foot to another. Now that's functional. Pushing yourself away from the ground (or an opponent) ie; a pushup, or bench press has no utility in real life because they can't think outside the box. Forget that wrestlers are some of the most functionally strong people in the world with impressive range, strength and longevity. All without FP. Good Lord, how is that possible?

[@tpap6827]

Hahaha 🤣. Apparently the general term functional training applies to the average guy who has to sit at a desk all day, flight traffic, pick up dry cleaning and a bottle of wine so his wife can imagine the honeymoon phase of the relationship when the guy was purely athletic, aesthetic, and capable of producing Force and speed while remaining limber. Now when his wife is buzzed he tries in vain to beg her to show him some physical affection like she used to before he matured and stop worrying about size strength and aesthetics. After all if he wants to fit in at work and look like your average middle-aged lanky skinny fat mess, or a stout fat mess, which requires functional strength. These guys can feel great about buying that suit right off the rack. You know the one, it's designed for a guy who is 6 ft tall, 163 who wears a 41 long jacket, and has a 36 inch waist with a 33 inch inseam. His training partner who is the powerhouse of the two but doesn't have the endurance of his friend who can carry two bags of groceries up a flight of stairs without getting winded, is 5'7 and wears a 48 short coat, zero taper, with slacks designed to accommodate a 42 inch waist with a 29 inch inseam. Neither suit requires any tailoring. Tailored suits are for guys who don't know what they're doing in the gym. Now that men are getting functionally strong, the average testosterone level is 50% of what it was 50 years ago. One thing that the functional training does is these guys don't get antsy sitting down at a desk all day. They can sit down and their ass sweat for hours at a time and really focus on the inconsequential tasks that the guys who are exploiting them for a paycheck pay these guys in mediocre salary to do because the guys who take pride in their appearance and trained like men, also don't want to be bogged down wasting your time doing stupid s***. These guys are not functionally strong in the day-to-day world. They are only functionally strong when the house is on fire and they need to carry the dog and a couple kids out from the blaze, or some thug starts threatening the guy his wife and kids when he's walking out of a restaurant and he has to beat the living s*** out of him

[@PonyBoy10]

@@tpap6827 Like most of the people doing FP are quite skinny and weak looking. They all have the same story, that they broke doing traditional weight lifting. Almost 100% likely to doing movements improperly, not recovering well and I would be willing to bet the majority of them were under a lot of mental stress, not sleeping and recovering well and over loading themselves. Doing light weights in FP in mostly rotational forces is nice, might even feel good, but will keep them beta and weak.

[@SocceratesTFS]

Rodney at 1:53:00 saying how when he was young (still is) listening to older guys who knew better he was like "Yeah you don't know anything!" LIke he isn't still doing that now. He said SAID principle how many times in this podcast without actually understanding it fully? "SAID stands for Specific Adaptation for Imposed Demands. At its core, the SAID principle dictates that the body's response to stress or demand is specific to the demand imposed. In simpler terms, if we want our bodies to adapt to a particular stressor or activity, we must expose them to that specific stressor." He thinks that SAID principle only applies to mimicking running in your training? How narrow minded... Let's break this down for the narrow minded: Expose your biceps to a stressor that makes them bigger, they get bigger due to the demand you imposed on it....bingo SAID principle at work.

[@Bherrera012]

Haha. I personally know when I'm looking up in the air trying to think like I'm really intelligent but in reality I'm just a normal dude. Nice one buddy

[@terrygraff8696]

Exactly! Have a body language expert watch this episode and bust out every time these two are exaggerating or, dare I say… lying about their knowledge.

[@AerialBot-wm2sh]

Well his mind its trying to look upthere how to make Usain bolt faster with functional patterns 😂

[@timothydavis2568]

Looking up is a normal expression when talking about subjects near the edge of linguistic or comprehensive fluency.

[@Arturo_Fonseca]

These guys keep repeating "SAID" principle in almost all podcasts and I have to laugh at how much they truly do not understand the simplicity of it. Let me explain. It's a specific adaptation to imposed demands... yeah, and what of it? Let's say someone's goal is to get bigger biceps, so they employ hypertrophy principles with dumbell training and periodization and over time they achieve their goal; bigger biceps. That's the SAID principle at work fella's. Pretending that a pushup or a squat doesn't observe the SAID principle is lunacy and demonstrates a simple lack of comprehension of the principles you spout.

[@jagerpanda3561]

Insane this lasted 3 hours. Just getting more angry as I listen to this. I hope these cult members are getting paid well.

[@albertozdil2076]

What upset you about it?

[@jagerpanda3561]

@@albertozdil2076 these guys say that everything they do should make you a better sprinter. Which is a good training goal for the general population. But then they say they almost never program actual sprinting. That’s one point I could make. But there are probably a dozen more. The least we’ll spoken of the two, the short guy says that traditional lifting messed him up by the time he was 22. Well that’s his fault because he was ego lifting and a dummy with his training. Axial loading is important and a great way to build strength and size. These guys are jokes and it’s because they are in a cult.

[@albertozdil2076]

Sprinting is a guidepost for human biomechanics. FP practitioners use standing, walking, running (sprinting) and throwing as the benchmarks for good movement because they are the movements which characterize us as a species. Most people are unable to sprint in a way which improves their movement quality due to dysfunctions. If they were to sprint, they would do it poorly and worsen their dysfunctions. I think it would be fair to say that you could replace the word sprinting with movement quality - They are training in a way to improve movement quality, which is synonymous with improving sprinting. Rodney may have been “ego lifting” and that may have contributed to his dysfunctions, but the point being made is that traditional training creates far too much axial compression. In other words, traditional weight training is excessively oriented to lifting things up and down which makes it maladaptive. When you think about walking, running and throwing, what is the direction of force? The body is moving horizontally through space, rather than being used to lift objects against gravity. I don’t think they’re saying you shouldn’t lift anything, I think they are saying that the focus should be on producing force in a horizontal plane, with respect to the first four (standing, walking, running, and throwing.)

[@slings7149]

​@@jagerpanda3561L

[@kevinjackson2314]

Seniors absolutely should be doing resistance training because of the possibility or inevitability of sarcopenia. As a senior and personal trainer I am doing deadlines and squats at age 62 and no physical issues at all. Been doing these movements for years. My flexibility is excellent because of stretching and practicing the martial arts for 47 years. Great conversation however, everyone is different and should train accordingly. Not all training modalities apply to everyone. Bands, resistance training with weights, boxing, grappling, sprinting, bodyweight training, are all great " functional" movements depending on the goals, genetics and physical abilities of the individual.

[@rickporterbridges]

After finding FP years ago, I've never went back to traditional fitness.

[@functionalvanconversion4284]

💯

[@Arturo_Fonseca]

Obviously you were doing it all wrong.

[@rhysh2639]

Weight training improves strength, fitness and overall health, the scientific research has proven that. Playing (or competing in) sports destroys bodies, nearly everyone I know who took part in competitive sports, paid for it later in life. A lot of people who played sports (especially ex-football players) end up with permanently damaged bodies well after they retired. Even sports like Cricket and Baseball will end up causing shoulder/arm problems; I also know someone who had his jaw broken from getting hit by the ball. The problem with the gym is that people overtrain. Overtraining is why the vast majority of injuries occur. People seem to think that they can train exactly like their favourite fitness idols (who happen to abuse large amounts of gear) and end up beating themselves up in the gym. People who use PEDs are able to recover MUCH faster than people who are drug-free. Training 3 times a week is plenty for a drug-free natural. While squats are a fantastic exercise (one of the best), deadlifts are massively overrated and can be very hard to recover from once you reach a decent strength level. The high injury risk associated with deadlifts is usually because they're hard to recover from and people overreach. If you want to do deadlifts, then go right ahead, I just think that they're not necessary for someone who doesn't compete in powerlifting. Do squats and barbell rows and you'll get the same overall development that you would from deadlifts (minus the impeded recovery).

[@PonyBoy10]

Competing at high levels means a lot of pressure is put on athletes to return before they're ready, inuriing them worse from the initial. Then if it's done repetitively, the injuries compound. We still need a proper diagnostic system that shows FULL healing has been achieved. When we get something that can scan and validate tissue healing, and then measurements that confirm baselines have been achieved before return to sport, we'll see a decrease in compounding and repetitive injuries that can be avoided. Sport will go back to the best competing vs the best and less about money and getting back NOW.

[@sasquatch989]

I see a lot of guys "squatting" in the gym and it is only a matter of time before their bodies give out. Technique and appropriate loading can easily outweigh the "dysfunction" of squats.

[@EnoughSaid302]

I see it too. It is worse for new lifters because as they stated in this episode, simply becuase there is squat rack there they get in it. Personally, self awareness and intuition around what is good for you and isn't trumps everything. But we have lost that ability. I recommend using psylocibin or thc in low safe dowses while moving to enhance that intuitive awareness of what is going on while you move.

[@moritji6090]

​@@EnoughSaid302 You can definitely develop those attributes without any need for drugs. Other than that its just not even practical, what you gonna have 3 trips a week to work on body awareness😂

[@ericmalitz]

Ah yes “technique and appropriate loading” solves the issues of relying on heavy half-squats (for what reason exactly…?) says a guy who probably -never measurably trained his hip flexors -never measurably trained his lower legs (tibialis, BOTH calf muscles) -never measurably trained low back strength (J curl, back extension etc) And on and on. This is the problem with mainstream fitness.

[@Fluggrugger1]

How about LEARN the true nuances of the squat. It’s not a simple movement to MASTER and it can be very beneficial when done correctly.

[@ericmalitz]

@@Fluggrugger1toddlers squat. It’s a basic human movement. There’s nothing to “learn.” The issue for people in the west is they simply stop accessing a squat position. And THEN come up with the idea that repping out partial range squats, with weight, and never accessing full knee flexion, is somehow a valuable asset.

[@JamieHaleyy]

Oooooh, I've been waiting for this, thanks for making this happen!

[@tylerhoffman2271]

I'll save you the 3 hours of listening to this podcast and just tell you to buy their 10 week program. Thats about all I got out of this.

[@looseunit9180]

Mate you are clearly a deep thinker

[@tylerhoffman2271]

@@looseunit9180 Well when they literally can't tell you what the actual system is that they are espousing is better than every single thing ever created before and just keep saying you need to buy our $200 course, then yeah, thats about all that you can truly get out of that 3 hour conversation. All they literally said was everything is else is terrible for you and our system is the only way. Buy our course so you can understand its greatness but we can't really give you much detail on what it is other than its functional and makes you a better sprinter.

[@tylerhoffman2271]

@@looseunit9180 I also came into this video truly open, not knowing a single thing about functional patterns and completely up to the idea that standard barbell training isn't the greatest thing. Then they didn't provide anything useful other than everything sucks except our system. If they had done a better job at explaining why 100 years of a training system is completely counterproductive other than it makes you worse at sprinting and provide no real support for that claim, then maybe I would've gotten anything at all out of this other than feeling like I'm listening to a snake oil salesman.

[@Arturo_Fonseca]

@@tylerhoffman2271 Made up marketing ploy that attracts conspiracy theorists like the founder. Good business for him. That's all. Lots of dumb people to fleece of money who want to be something but not put in the time. Classical cult secret sauce marketing.

[@PonyBoy10]

Did Usain Bolt succeed because of the dead lifts or inspite of them. Now there's a scientifically valid question, lol. Let's just make up suppositions and pretend they're true while discrediting science. Bolt, first of all, has some natural talent. Strengthening it and practicing his craft can only provide him benefit. Pretending that FP would have made his faster is one of the most pseudoscientific things that you can say. "Ok maybe it helped him but what about the 99% of the population that it does not?" Where did you get that number if not from your rear end Rodney?

[@TCM3273]

I think yall should have just faught each other and see who wins and let that be a demonstration of how much theri system vs your system or apporach to fitness leads to a transfer to performance. I think we all know how that would turn out.

[@slings7149]

That's what an idiot would say.

[@SocceratesTFS]

The skinny fat guys would get thumped.

[@AlexanderDominisac-sg4xi]

It’s not a statement of if there is one way, it’s more a question of which way do you want to go & how long do you want to go for.

[@jagerpanda3561]

The MBPP gangs display of patience during this is commendable. I hadn’t heard of FP and these gents are a complete zero.

[@tonyz4292]

If this dude says FP could’ve made MJ better at basketball it’s officially a cult

[@slings7149]

Why?

[@tonyz4292]

@@slings7149 because that’s a delusion of grandeur, it’s something that can never be proven and is pointless to bring up. Most cults revolve around an eccentric leader that claims to possess knowledge that is exclusive to them…

[@slings7149]

A system that has enabled people with scoliosis as well as neurodegenerative diseases such as cerebral palsy and amputees to move better can definitely help someone as genetically gifted and motivated as MJ.

[@slings7149]

@tonyz4292 what people commonly overlook is that it's more impressive to help someone who's dealing with major problems than to help someone that's already athletic.

[@tonyz4292]

@@slings7149 I think that logic is a bit flawed. The treatment for someone with a spinal condition might not remotely help an athlete that set new standards in terms of athletic performance.

[@ericmalitz]

Important update: FP declares deep squats lead to multiple issues (Source: Elastaboy, Ben Patrick et al are actually all screwed up).

[@Arturo_Fonseca]

🤣🤣🤣