Lily Orchard was Wrong, and Here's Why

Steven Universe is garbage and here's why was released by Lily Orchard 4 years ago, and it permanently changed discourse on Steven Universe for the worst. The video is full of lies, mischaracterizations and malice to a disgusting degree- so finally let's set the record straight.
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Time Stamps:
00:00 Why
07:02 Serialization vs Episodic
14:21 Hiatus
15:12 Pacing
21:45 Limited Perspective
27:02 Character Writing
33:30 Characters
50:34 Lapis
01:00:28 Villains
01:11:30 LGBT Rep
01:21:21 Lily's Bad Advocacy
01:30:03 Enby
01:33:20 Stevonnie
01:46:12 Myopia
01:49:30 Rose Quartz
02:02:48 Pearl & Free Will
02:08:46 Rose's Sins
02:16:00 Dark Themes
02:26:40 Redemption
02:45:23 Anti-Art
02:55:10 Corporate?
02:58:18 Conclusion

[@HidinginPrivate]

I hope Lily has grown since making this video, but the Damage it has done still needs to be corrected for. Lily has a pretty bad track record of attacking and misrepresenting anyone who criticizes her, so again, I hope she has grown and doesn't go nuclear. Still, making this video was a risk- so please support me if you can! Like, comment, and share!

[@chairy9775]

she hasnt. she's still attacking people in her comment section under that video, and is still bigoted as all hell.

[@SilverRagaire]

She’s worse! 👍

[@alittlelostinthemoment6677]

She hasn't. In fact, she got worse. Your faith in her is admirable but horribly misplaced.

[@ARandomEliatrope]

Nah, she's way worse now actually!

[@Interstellarpool176]

hasn’t grown that much💀

[@EwMatias]

Lily's insistence in constantly referring to Rebecca Sugar personally as if she was the only writer in th show is so grating.

[@EwMatias]

Ugh, listening to the "Pearl is a slave" thing is so infuriating. Literally the song that brings her back in the movie is "Let's be independent together".

[@gh0stward0o0]

she wants to be a real writer sooo bad

[@pineapplecity3769]

fr its like she doesn't understand that creating and writing a show is a collaborative effort

[@crestren5996]

@@gh0stward0o0 Its even worse because she DID make a writing advice thread on twitter a couple of years ago and it is the WORST tips and advice you'll ever hear. It was just HER preferences. If she likes certain tropes, its the best, if she dislikes it, its bad and you should be in jail for writing it.

[@morganqorishchi8181]

To be fair, on her tumblr she's also trashed the music as being done by "a borderline r*tard and a genderspecial", referring to Aivi and Serasshu, who are a queer couple (Aivi is nonbinary, Serasshu is neurodivergent, AMAB and agender). So sometimes she DOES expand her hatred to others.

[@starfieldgames5976]

"blink and you'll miss it representation" i'm sorry, does lily blink for 8 fucking hours??? because that's not blinking, that's sleep

[@randompromises1038]

Just look up "every ruby and sapphire moment" and you get compilation videos of over 10+ minutes 💀

[@antiquatedgraves9426]

This made me laugh my ass off, perfect reply.

[@mandarinsandclementines2997]

She did NOT watch keystone motel

[@TheGimbishGlob]

Fall into a year long coma and you’ll miss it

[@PTp1ranha]

If she was sleeping the whole time, that would explain a lot of the inaccuracies.

[@M3RDR]

Lily calling Stevonnie "the most hyper-fem you could possibly be" has the same energy as people on twitter calling Taylor Swift butch because she wore pants

[@SpookusMcDoofus]

Twitter seriously called Taylor Swift bitch because she wore fucking jeans? 😂

[@andyghkfilm2287]

she literally grows and shaves facial hair on-screen, lolllllll “HYPER FEM”

[@twokindsofovenfries32]

God forbid an intersex person has curves and long hair fucks sake

[@SeaNymph]

I'm late but what disgusts me most is that the idea that Stevonnie is the most "fem presenting thing ever" is incredibly enbyphobic by itself, completely disregarding her wording. Nonbinary people can look like anyone regardless of appearance or traits. Nonbinary people don't owe anyone androgyny.

[@brassboy212]

Lily just salty because Stevonnie (a mixed gender character) was prettier than her IRL. 😂 It's like that Homer Simpson line "WHY DOESN'T MINE LOOK LIKE THAT?!"

[@Yipyak-i-ay]

I never noticed before, but she complains about queer characters being explicitly limited to gems, while showing Pearl's punk lesbian hookup on screen.

[@TheBonkleFox]

Also didn't sadie get into a queer relationship in future? Then again lily probably doesn't count that.

[@Yipyak-i-ay]

@@TheBonkleFox Yep! She had an enby partner.

[@maxxie_the_queer]

Plus, while this could be a grey area on whether or not it's considered queer, Kevin acknowledges that Stevonnie is enby and still hits on them. So that's another human, who shows up multiple times, who could be considered some flavor of queer

[@commonbridge4735]

@@TheBonkleFox Sadie was also attracted to Stevonnie in the original show, so she was queer in OG SU too.

[@princess_intell]

Also, a lot of reoccurring characters are gems. At some point, it's just a matter of statistics.

[@thevarietychannelofyoutube4769]

Lily Orchard completely ignores the fact that the reason why Amethyst stopped being angsty about her insecurities after the Zoo episode is because she finds out that the closest thing she has to a biological family(the other Amethysts)loves her for who she is and accepts her. That's a perfectly acceptable ending to that arc. I found it very heartwarming and emotionally powerful

[@one-onessadhalf3393]

Plus, she discovers other “deformed” gems like her, like Skinny Jasper and Carnelian

[@thevarietychannelofyoutube4769]

@@one-onessadhalf3393 Yeah, and she saw that they were being accepted as part of the group too. I think there was something sort of beautiful about her arc ending like that

[@SpaceLanceFTW]

Well she couldn't relate to it, so it was completely lost on her...

[@thevarietychannelofyoutube4769]

@@SpaceLanceFTW I don't think that's it. I think since they didn't have a character explicitly say in the script that this is what's happening, she missed it.

[@thevarietychannelofyoutube4769]

@@SpaceLanceFTW Society treats trans people like Homeworld treats gems who were born different from their societal norms. Since she's LGBT, Lily Orchard probably would relate to it if she understood what was happening

[@clavasconcellos1712]

About the gay wedding, Sugar did two amazing things to break how the show was being adapted in homophobic countries: First was putting Ruby on a dress. In Russia, Ruby was being dubbed as male so their relationship would turn heterossexual, and having Ruby in dress now meant that those places would have to have a "man" using a dress without it being a joke or the "man" being femme the rest of the time. And second, having the Diamonds crash the wedding meant that now the episode couldn't be cut off, because the next one started at the exact end of this one. Well played, Sugar, well played :D

[@lilypaigeham]

THAT IS FUCKING GENIUS?????? HOLY SHIT

[@JohnnyThunders-yv6yy]

Lily calls it bad representation I call it a great swindle

[@nickchabot1302]

@@JohnnyThunders-yv6yysounds delicious

[@noctap0d]

A masterful play 💙❤️

[@Daeneiracorn]

they cancelled those episodes anyway tho.

[@oMuStiiA]

The way Lily popularized painting Rebecca as a Nazi sympathizer is actually disgusting. Like an absolutely abhorrent way to talk about a queer Jewish person who wanted to write an escapist kid's story about how people have the ability to change their minds and atone for their bad deeds if only they were willing to listen to those they've harmed. Just gross, puts such a bad taste in my mouth.

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

Considering that Lily has a track record of controversies regarding the Stockholm fanfic that she's trying to hide as well as calling everyone an "abusers" for just disagreeing, then that's not surprised about the quality of her character. She's just unhinged and ill-tempered, yet not the brightest light bulb in the lampshade.

[@gamingtime468]

i don't like lily orchard, but you're absolutely wrong. 1. lily literally said rebecca ISN'T a nazi sympathizer 2. it's not her fault that typical twitter users see her as one 3. if she made a non jewish, hetero person look like a nazi sympathizer, that WOULDN'T be disgusting???

[@oMuStiiA]

@@gamingtime468 1. just because she didn't say "Rebecca is a Nazi sympathizer" out loud that doesn't mean she didn't directly imply it through her words and portrayal and popularize that interpretation. That rhetoric was absolutely jumpstarted and encouraged by Lily. 2. As someone with a platform she has a responsibility to not spread blatant misinformation in order to degrade the reputation of someone else just because they made a show she doesn't like. 3. Of course it would still be disgusting if it happened to anyone and I never said otherwise, but for it to be aimed at someone who is already in a vulnerable demographic let alone a demographic that had been targeted and victimized by the holocaust is especially gross.

[@Mollymauking]

@@gamingtime468 her video has 8 MILLION views. it is absolutely her fault the way that some people view sugar.

[@HarperNell]

Lily referring to arcs being repeatedly "abandoned" and then mentioning the episode they come back in is actually hilarious. it's not abandoned if it comes back in a later episode. An arc doesn't have to be explored in every single episode for it to remain an important thing to a character, then it wouldn't really be an arc.

[@animeotaku307]

She may have confused character arcs with story arcs in how they operate.

[@jacoosacoon118]

​​@@animeotaku307 even then there is no written rule that either have to be constant in storytelling. Its okay to take breaks from story and character arcs. Shakespeare was famous for it. He'd write an emotionally intense scene and then open the next scene with a raunchy joke to break the tension. Sometimes arcs need interuption. Sometimes character development has to happen before plot development. Sometimes the creators are tired and need a fun episode to animate in between the really important plot heavy ones to make the work managable.

[@peeblekitty5780]

Creating "throws and catches" of setups and payoffs in your story is like, the basic foundation of engaging long-term writing. who seriously sees a previously established plot point come back and be paid off and considers the fact that it did that _inconsistent?_ That's a telltale mark of a writer paying attention to the story they're crafting!

[@kitrana]

except that starting an arc and then dropping it for a while would have been considered abandoning it. lily is from a generation, i think, of pre internet binging. or that's the sense i get. back when you got one or two episodes of a show per week. so introducing an arc and then not mentioning it for 8 episodes ... and then you consider the hiatuses that steven universe experienced and yes abandoning is an appropriate word to use here.

[@peeblekitty5780]

@@kitrana That kind of depends on the arc. For example with The Test, that's inherently something that has to come up later by nature of Steven needing to grow as a character before he discovers that episode 3 was a test. Other arcs, like Garnet being (rightfully) upset with Pearl for the Sardonyx situation, persist and are present between back-to-back episodes, because that's a very active plot point. I see your point for some things like the events of Warp Tour not being addressed in the following episode at all (that drove me a bit nuts also) but by and large the arcs that get left on hold between their relevant episodes do so because it's fairly natural for them not to follow up immediately.

[@spookyghost6713]

Personally, I love the fact that Rose goes from being seen as this perfect, loving, selfless character only to be revealed as a flawed, and frankly problematic person. It's devastatingly realistic, beautifully nuanced and elevates the show greatly imo

[@MathematicalVoid]

Yeah, I remember someone saying that the thing about Rose was that we saw her character arc in reverse, and that that seriously affected how the audience saw her.

[@spookyghost6713]

@MathematicalVoid Ooo that's a really good observation! I hadn't thought about it like that

[@isabellek-q3183]

it’s kinda like learning about people irl. At first someone you admire may seem like they could do no wrong but eventually you learn they’re flawed too. I think her character was very well done!

[@FreaksKnight]

the revelation of rose being pink diamond was the biggest plot twist ever at the time

[@mirulei]

yessss this, its kind of like growing up and idealizing your parents just to slowly find out over time that they're as flawed as you and never fully met the expectations you held them to, steven kind of does this with greg in one of the future episodes too. i really like that honesty and nuance about recognizing how people you love will never be purely "good" or "bad", it's being both that makes them people in the first place

[@franknfurter5336]

my #1 pet peeve in relation to steven universe discourse is the fact that it's managed to mindfuck people into thinking that the representation is "bad"

[@HidinginPrivate]

That's seriously wild

[@steampunk-llama]

Omg yeah tumblr was genuinely awful with that. I felt bad for watching it as a teen because I enjoyed it and saw myself in Stevonnie (

[@samuelclayhills3298]

At this point in time basically anyone who talked about representation where the toxic tumblr users so people got turned of from representation because everyone advocating for it was a pretentious jackass trying to feel better about themselvs by helping some minority.

[@dragonscar3670]

But no rep is better than bad rep. Bad rep is used to paint us as if we are deviants or some anomaly that just happened or it's glorifying abuse and toxic relationships(She-ra, SU, ect.) So yeah, I'd rather that these shows never fucking try and instead watch th owl house season 1 because it's just more wholesome.

[@dragonscar3670]

Before you ask, yes, the "rep" in SU is garbage. If any of you actually watched Lily's video instead of jacking off to this dude's shitty editing, you'd know that Ruby and Sapphire are two of the best characters in the series because when they are separate, they are written insanely well. Notice I said, when they are separate because Sugar would much rather sideline Garner to all hell unless it's an episode about Fusion than to let Ruby and Sapphire out to be an actual relation. Telling the two newly wed "women"(Gems are monogender and uses she/her pronouns) that Steven pronounces them Garnet and not wives shows just how much metaphor Sugar is using to avoid saying the real thing. I do give her credit by making sure that the episode can't be censored due to the diamonds showing up during the last half. But also the diamonds showing up, trying to kill everyone and Steven calling them "family" is gross. No Steven, your real family is the individuals who aren't actively trying to kill you aka the people who's staying behind you.

[@steviebeevie]

I cant be the only one bothered she pointed out Ronaldo not having a "redemption arc" like it was ever needed, he's cringe but not EVIL

[@animeotaku307]

Speaking as someone who hates Ronaldo, he needed a maturation arc. Not a redemption arc.

[@WestGarbage6]

I find it funny she wanted any arc for Ronaldo, considering the blatant hate she has for any resident of beach city to get screentime, she'd probably just throw it in a pile as "Yet another useless filler episode" because she wants to see more of the cool n@zi's.

[@StillSomeone]

If you think way too hard, he did try to kick out immigrants and then appropriate their culture But he’s literally just a joke character and none of that can be taken too seriously

[@Messier__]

Weird thought but honestly he should've had a bit of screen time with Peridot to bring him down to Earth with a literal alien. They were both characters that misunderstand literally everything around them. One's trying to understand space the others trying to understand Earth. Let them both interact with Each other and see where it goes. Idk I'm not a writer 😅

[@airplanes_aren.t_real]

Didn't he try to kill lars!??!

[@destinee6590]

I find "Rose just wanted to have a baby" to be the most interesting possible answer, honestly, because it really...humanizes her, for lack of a better term. Rose Quartz is spoken of like a myth or a legend throughout a lot of the show, so of course Steven, and the audience, expects some sort of complicated reason for his existence, some sort of plot or plan or meaning that would align with her mythical status. But there was no plot, no plan. Rose didn't create him for some grand purpose. Despite all of the great and terrible things she's done, she wasn't some distant mythological figure. She was just another Gem, just a person who wanted a baby.

[@KingYou2002]

It was also supposed to show how Steven can overthink every single piece of information that crosses his mind. It's to foreshadow Future.

[@slothful2039]

Lily's sheer disdain for Rebecca Sugar is so exaggerated and weird. Attack the show, sure, but to attack Rebecca's character because you didn't like her cartoon is so ridiculous.

[@blkmagi]

It's insane actually, to talk about a person you do not know the way this Lily person speaks about Rebecca Sugar. It's markedly ludicrous.

[@bluewolf6323]

Also, Idk if I'm overthrinking this, but Lily saying "I have no disdain for Rebecca but *insert long rant about why she hates Rebecca*" gives off the same vibe as "Well you know what I think"/"I'm not racist but *insert group name* followed by fucked up thing.

[@ARandomEliatrope]

​@@bluewolf6323oh yeah absolutely 200%

[@doityourselfa]

also calling Sugar a nazi when she's a jewish person is like ridiculously fucked up....

[@zamalamahama4894]

It’s cuz she’s trying to imitate the dynamic Hbomberguy had with Moffat in his “Sherlock is garbage and here’s why” video. But in that video it’s very clearly displayed how Moffat’s decisions are his own and undoubtedly harmed the story and there were little other people to blame as he was the sole writer with complete creative control. It’s also notable that Moffat is an incredibly affluent creator with high standing within the British film industry, there’s this feeling that the criticism can’t touch him, HBomberguy is therefore clearly punching up at him. Whereas Lilly’s constant barrage of insults towards Rebecca is targeted to a person who, while they are well respected within animation circles, doesn’t have near to the same standing as creators like Steven Moffat. I wouldn’t call it punching down but It feels far less like punching up and thus comes across as more mean spirited.

[@SpideyGutz2]

1:33:25 also non binary people don't owe you androgeny. stevonne mostly leaning towards fem is completely fine, critising stonvonne cuz they're not completely androgenous is alienating a big part of the non binary community

[@HidinginPrivate]

Agreed!

[@sirengacha8717]

Definitely. I personally am an non-binary person who happens to enjoy a lot of traditionally feminine things

[@suddenllybah]

People might say the character looks fem and I cam see, but like they have a look that any mix of what society thought they would be as a kid and what they are now would not phase me to learn about.

[@just.someperson]

YES.

[@pickles6846]

Lily's complaint here wasn't that stevonnie was fem presenting, her complaint was that a masc presenting child and a fem presenting child made a fem presenting adult person who is repeatedly perved on.

[@puppetpawss]

What really irks me about Lily and her criticism is that she has the most "damned if you do, damned if you don't" mentality I've ever seen. She basically wants to watch characters who are flat, one note NPCs because she can't go for 4 seconds without screeching that a character is horrible for daring to be flawed, but then turns around and screeches that a character is horrible if they're not perfectly multi-faceded and full of story. Sooo.... Which is it? Do you want an NPC or do you want an actual character?

[@NintendoMeister2260]

What do you expect? She tried to make the argument that Mary Sues are fun.

[@fluffywolfo3663]

Now that you _mention_ it... It's weird. So many of her "criticisms" (I use this loosely) come from a place that seriously makes you wonder "Have you ever even seen... _stuff?_ " but at the same time they feel like they're from someone who has (if anything) seen _too much_ stuff.

[@NintendoMeister2260]

@@fluffywolfo3663 Her criticism is 80% made up, 10% random political points, and 10% pain.

[@fluffywolfo3663]

@@NintendoMeister2260 And 100% of it boils down to "Cause I said so." Remember her "simple writing tips" where it was mostly "Don't do this because you're a bad person if you do" ?

[@manolgeorgiev9664]

She likes characters she likes and shits on everything else. When you realize that her criticism is little more than pointless ranting and unprofessional intangible opinions trusted at you in an aggressive Gish gallop, it's obvious she's not worth listening to or taking seriously.

[@beck-nightengale]

The way Lily keeps making personal attacks on Rebecca Sugar was so vile and abhorrent. She acts like Rebecca Sugar personally shot her family or something.

[@eeeertoo2597]

Really creeped me out whenever that happened in the video

[@beck-nightengale]

@@eeeertoo2597 Yeah, it was really weird how personal the hatred for Rebecca Sugar seemed to run for Lily, and how despicable the insults became. What a toxic personality.

[@randompromises1038]

It's extended to Dana Terrace and calling her a racist for... having a white male protagonist. Lily really has a bone to pick with queer showrunners.

[@sammakesmusic1]

She's acting like Sugar was the only person working on the show. I don't know why Lily has such a large vendetta against Sugar, but it's really fucking weird to call them a Nazi sympathizer based on her insane theories about a children's show.

[@randompromises1038]

@@sammakesmusic1 also like... just because you add an element to a story doesn't mean you excuse it lmao that sort of strict binary thinking is relegated to preschool shows where they're deliberately giving important lessons to little kids. SU is a show whose primary demographic is 7 to 8 year olds who are a little smarter than that. I feel like the way Lily views the show is through an adult lens which... it's a _kids'_ show. Morality is supposed to be more black and white and these shows always have a happy ending because kids aren't mature enough to handle nuance (neither is Lily for that matter). Can mature themes be in a kids' show no problem? Duh. But at the end of the day it's a kids' show and so has to adhere to those rules. People can die in a Pixar film and children can handle it, but they wouldn't be able to handle seeing the body. Nuance.

[@blueskyclouds9819]

Lily’s claims that Steven Universe has bad representation is fucking flabbergasting. When I was 12 years old, I was trapped in Christian fundamentalism, a movement that despises queer people… and I watched Steven Universe, contrary to my parents’ explicit instruction. It was the first act of rebellion from my queerphobic parents that I ever did, and it genuinely changed my life. I would sneak onto my mom’s computer to watch episodes, and wonder what was so bad about it. Ruby and Sapphire were the first gay people that I actually saw as real, full people. I made myself stop watching a little into season 5, because the religious guilt became unbearable. Like, I confessed my sin of watching a *cartoon* to God so, so many times. It was a bad time. But the pure love of their relationship stuck with me, and through years of reflection and challenge, I was able to come to terms with the fact that I was unabashedly gay! I wear a red bracelet on my left arm and a blue bracelet on my right every single day, just to remind myself of where I’ve been and how far I’ve come. All that is to say… a queer relationship that was written so wonderfully that it brought a religious guilt-ridden girl into accepting herself as a gay woman simply CANNOT be bad rep. It just can’t. Love this show ❤💙

[@il_Giollo]

​@@ronan-outoftimeomg the bracelets... girl I'm fucking crying

[@il_Giollo]

By the way, I related really much with Steven, since I was an emotional and kind of feminine boy too, and also Pearl, that as a character reminded me of a lot of my struggles, both in her personality AND her sexuality, the really educated and sworn to the rules one, that in reality is a badass rebel, doing cool things maintaining her elegance (I mean, she's a ballet dancer who ALSO kicks asses with swords? how cool is that??). Indeed I wanted to do a matching tattoo of her and amethyst with my bestie ✨

[@StardustCorvid]

I'm glad you got through most of that nasty queerphobic shit. Hope you're doin' alright nowadays~

[@blueskyclouds9819]

@@ronan-outoftime Ty ❤️

[@blueskyclouds9819]

@@il_Giollo I was also a Pearl enjoyer. Had a monster crush on her haha

[@fellipepessoa1685]

On the issue of queer representation, I think it's important to remind people that Steven Universe literally got cancelled because of the gay wedding

[@melt_brain]

lily herself is trans, too. so not only is she under the transgender demographic of “internalized transphobia”, she’s actively discrediting her trans, nonbinary, and other fans identifying as another sexuality and gender that does not correspond with how they were born. she’s also a pedo and molester against her own sister and wrote a fanfic detailing everything she would do and has done to her sister, but replaced her and her sister with my little pony characters. so, her claim about alfred and batman and romance really aged well considering she was actively involved in non consensual incest (which, incest in general in her state is highly illegal).

[@bluewolf6323]

I've seen people criticize that by saying "Well maybe Rebecca shouldn't have had that wedding" or "maybe Rebecca shouldn't have made the gems so fem" and I think it's the dumbest shit...

[@lmao2302]

@@melt_brain ain't no fucking way

[@JohnnyThunders-yv6yy]

@@melt_brain what the hell...that so messed up

[@JuliaJulia-vh4xc]

@@melt_brainreally hate to be that guy but…source for that last part? About her and her sister?

[@rel_bis]

Once saw Discord drama where someone mentioned being excited for the SU movie, and someone else replied "uuh SU is nazi propaganda ://" and when everyone else was like "what the FUCK are you talking about" the person doubled down and kept linking Lily's video as their source. The damage of that video is insaneee lol

[@HidinginPrivate]

Now you can counter with this and be just as annoying except you will be right

[@maxleon61702]

To quote Carl Wheezer about it: I don't feel so good.

[@phoenixikki2641]

The show literally shows Nazi stuff as awful.

[@moykurs]

did this person not know su is made by a jewish person... lmao

[@chimppower2748]

Sugar is literally Jewish 💀💀

[@mr.mister791]

Lily really got upset that the audience figured out the pink diamond twist before it actually happened and had the gall to call it bad writing?

[@AzaleaJane]

Utterly amazing that she tries to claim the PD/RQ twist wasn't planned. Everything about the show, including Steven's characterization, hinges on his mother being Pink Diamond. Clues are everywhere in plain sight. She might as well claim that the producers of Game of Thrones didn't decide that Ned Stark would be executed until after the show started.

[@trixiebewitched]

​@@AzaleaJane they literally slap you with the whole diamond plot line in one of the "filler" episodes. The one where Ronaldo kidnaps Steven because hes wearing a snake costume to try and make Ronaldo feel better. Ronaldo literally screams about the great diamond authority as steven and the gems are walking away from the lighthouse.

[@IRLghostyTrickster]

the fact that lily just. wouldn't. stop. calling. stevonnie. a "generic woman" and "generic lady" is so fucking annoying 💀

[@hugo_the_waffle]

Considering she is trans too, it really pissed me off

[@calebshmanderson]

Stevonnie grew facial hair at one point and as a far as I know that's not something society views as genetic.

[@avivastudios2311]

​@@calebshmandersonWhat?

[@anonymousmysteries3171]

@@calebshmanderson do you mean "generic" instead of "genetic"? (genuine question, assuming this is a typo)

[@matchamakess]

Fr, their literally intersex

[@DoggoDoesStuff1]

Lily calling everything that doesnt include the space fascists filler, and calling Garnet's emotional split filler, then saying that Garnet is tossed to the side as a character, THEN saying that the conclusion to her emotional split was great until the space fascists came in is truly beyond parody.

[@HidinginPrivate]

You could barely be more inconsistent if you tried

[@NintendoMeister2260]

I legit think she's schizophrenic.

[@ChimeraLotietheBunny]

Agreed

[@Mimipking]

Lol 'the Garnet' ❤

[@DoggoDoesStuff1]

@@Mimipking Hmm? I have no clue what you're talking about :)

[@ireallyhate_peanutbutter]

lily coulda just said “steven universe is cringe” like 99% of ppl who don’t like it, but instead she called the creator a fascist, a bad artist, a bad writer, a disease, etc etc 😭 the amount of effort is disgusting

[@Charuchii]

You know, watching the rant on Yellow Diamond makes it so obvious that what Lily actually wanted to watch was Dragonball and got pissed she was watching Steven Universe instead.

[@doot_slayer]

Shed even get pissed at dragon ball tbh. She’d get mad at Gohan going through a character arc culminating at the end of the Cell saga; saying that every time he’s stepped in to fight “goes against his character, why doesn’t Toriyama make up his mind!” And that’s only one character, but she’d be too irrationally angry to even get to Cell

[@brandonhaywood4810]

I wouldn’t put it past her getting angry at some of the characters getting redemption arcs either, since obviously Vegeta, Piccolo, and the androids being redeemed makes Toriyama a genocide sympathizer/j

[@eeeertoo2597]

@@brandonhaywood4810Think she just wants a power fantasy where big good guy defeats big bad guy

[@donkylefernandez4680]

@@eeeertoo2597 I think Lily would've preferred Popeye the Sailorman over Dragon ball but even then she'd *look for* something to complain about

[@demi-femme4821]

I don't know, I get the feeling that she'd be writing an angry rant about the "pointless kid advantures with Gohan's training" in the Saiyan saga.

[@Evil_Monologues]

Wow, lapis is an abuse victim who does bad things? Woah man, its almost as if hurt people hurt people, or something crazy like that. Ugh

[@thecheck968]

Wait what, hurt people hurt people? What an incredibly original phrase for such an original idea! We’re onto something here, like abuse is some sort of… cycle. Crazy.

[@theluigifan1]

I would argue even before Lapis started perpetuating the cycle of abuse the longer she was fused with Jasper, she originally just wanted to fuse and trap Jasper under the sea in order to protect Steven from her. Up to this point, Lapis has had nothing but gratitude and positive feelings toward Steven so it would make sense that she felt the need to protect her one friend from somebody out to get him. She did it when they first arrived in the hand ship in The Return. She even lied about Steven being just a plain human just to protect him from Jasper’s assault. It was only when she stayed Malachite for an extended period of time that she began relishing in the torture she was putting Jasper through for hurting her and threatening to hurt the one person she cared about. It became so toxic that Lapis stopped thinking about herself as her own entity and embraced being Malachite. That’s where the toxicity in Lapis comes in, I feel. Too many people acknowledge the wrong things she was doing to Jasper since Jail Break but end up leaving out the part where she was also trying to protect Steven from a Homeworld Gem bent on destroying him and his friends/family.

[@47ratsinahoodie]

@@theluigifan1 Exactly. Lapis was clearly initially trying to help, but it was when she had time to stew in her trauma from and hatred of Jasper and Homeworld (not to mention being trapped by the thing she's meant to control for so many months), she decided to take it out on Jasper. Hell, I wouldn't put it past her to at first thing this was a good thing and that Jasper deserved it for hurting her and threatening Steven before she eventually relished in it. But then she was able to come to the realization that that wasn't healthy in the slightest (meanwhile Jasper just came to the realization that she liked to be dominated /j). I really don't know how someone can misinterpret that. No one's saying Lapis didn't hurt Jasper, and I feel like that's what some people miss, idk

[@theluigifan1]

@@47ratsinahoodieExactly. I don’t know how people forget that Lapis *literally* said to Steven in Chille Tid “Just let me do this for you!” That’s why I feel my interpretation for why she ultimately chose to form Malachite with Jasper is apt.

[@enfysiridescent]

I think that Lily Orchard was against the portrayal of Lapis because she needs to shield her own actions. She needs people to believe that abuse survivors can't become abusive themselves, because she falls into the same category as Lapis: someone who was horribly abused, who went on to horribly abuse others.

[@jessz7819]

"The first gay wedding in a childrens show had to share its screentime" Its really sad to see people fundamentally misunderstanding just how important it was to format the episode that way. Rebecca and the crew did that specifically so the episode couldnt be cut and skipped over! They did that to make absolutely sure that the wedding wouldnt be removed, so that huge milestone for queer rep could happen, and was forced to be aknowledged. The wedding happening that way was a stroke of brilliance, and it sucks to see that diminished and treated as a disservice to queer representation somehow, when it was so obviously a triumph

[@commonbridge4735]

THIS. I remember when the episode first came out I thought it was weird because it was such whiplash and I felt like the whole episode should have been just the wedding, but then I found out about why they did this. It's so clever.

[@FreaksKnight]

also, it was not the first gay wedding in a kids show, arttur did that before

[@CrescentCaribou]

@@FreaksKnight nah Arthur's episode was in 2019, SU was in 2018

[@FreaksKnight]

@@CrescentCaribou oh, i thoug this episode was so much older, like, from the 2000

[@nicoleflores2054]

​@@FreaksKnightfrom where i remember, the animation from that episode was different compared to how the first seasons of Arthur were, so that helped the difference to know it's recent

[@AngryNerdBird]

The word "Filler" has been misused a lot in recent years. The term was popularized as a description of when an anime is padding out its episodes in order to avoid catching up to the manga too fast. But now it just means "Any episode that isn't advancing the main story, even if it contains world building and character development," which is just asinine.

[@kaylawoodbury2308]

Filler is more just a label for anything in the anime not canon to the manga. It definitely has no place in completely original works.

[@sunyavadin]

In the 80s and early 90s, before serialised shows were really a thing, we used the term for the no-budget episodes, often heavily assembled from clips, that literally just existed to pad out a season of a show to the full 22 demanded for ease of syndication.

[@trixiebewitched]

I actually saw a video by James Woodall, break down how much of steven Universe is actually filler, as in an episode that had no connections to the main plot what-so-ever outside of location and characters. There was like only 3 true filler episodes, total in all 5 seasons of SU. Even the townie episodes that so many people called filler, have major plot developments. He has a whole color coded flowchart/spread sheet thing goin on that really helps break it all down into easily digestible information.

[@misterbadguy7325]

@@trixiebewitched Really, I think it has to be said that a lot of people just flat-out don't like the townie episodes. (Which I agree with, frankly; they were probably the most hit-or-miss throughout the series.)

[@Iamjustherek]

What’s so frustrating is that she goes on and on about the negative traits of the character and how that makes them all terrible and poor characters. All the while ignoring that they were CALLED OUT BY OTHER CHARACTERS IN THE NARRATIVE! Pearl being overbearing, jealous, erratic? She’s called out by multiple characters multiple times and she learned to work through those traits! Rose was childish and secretive? It’s clear she was working on that up until Steven and then he went on to end that unquestioning worship of her memory. Steven is immature, annoying, and oblivious to his surroundings? Well, he’s a child and then he GROWS TF UP! Like Lily you can just say you have no media literacy and just keep it moving!

[@KingYou2002]

In addition to the Steven part, it's also a coming of age show. As a result, he's meant to be seen as occasionally obnoxious until the end of Season 1 when he gains more competence.

[@PDD555]

Fr, I'm honestly happy that the likes in her channel in comparison to the likes of the other channels responding to her really speak for themselves

[@yvachiskl]

The insane thing Abt this is that Lily makes this argument (the character is called out in the narrative which is why it's okay that they're not always right) in a different show. She made this argument to say that Big Bang Theory wasn't sexist bcs whenever the dudes were shitty they'd get called out for it. (This is a debatable take, I don't recall enough of Big Bang Theory to really say 'yes' or 'no' to it..) Regardless of opinions on Big Bang Theory, she MADE THIS ARGUMENT, yet doesn't apply it to Steven Universe. It has bad faith written all over it, or at least a deep, deep lack of thought (I was a pretty big fan of Lily as a teen, yes it is very embarrassing with a pinch of hindsight)

[@hannahleigh6152]

It's not a lack of media literacy, though. It's active lying. She said that Pearl wasn't called out for her behavior.

[@eeeertoo2597]

This was the hardest parts of the video to go through. Pointing out how a character did a bad thing.. like yeah.. hello? Whats so bad about that, its not terrible writing

[@cutecutemizuki]

The sheer amount of hatred lily holds for Rebecca is borderline creepy

[@HidinginPrivate]

It's really weird bc Rebecca is just like... a wholesome bean. Like how does someone harbor that much resentment towards nothing

[@PoorEdward]

@@HidinginPrivateshe holds contempt for humanity lmao wdym wholesome bean

[@blakefrick1453]

@@PoorEdward Dont we all?

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

Lily's obsessive hate towards Rebecca Sugar just because she never liked the show is indeed unhealthy and feels like a red flag at this point. Criticize a show is one thing, but attacking the creator and acts like creating a show is equivalent to committing a massacre and poison the water supply is beyond pathetic in so many levels.

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

@@PoorEdward This is just a typo. I think you're talking about Lily Orchard here.

[@smeefo0256]

Lily constantly insisting that Rebecca does not know what she's writing about is so sinister to me. How cruel to say that about someone that has clearly put years of her life into creating meaningful artwork. Creating a cartoon is no small thing, and Rebecca earned the credentials to make her own show. Acting like she's just some idiot that walked into a writers room is just wrong.

[@Wheeinpaint]

Rebecca is one of a kind. Her cartoon has such a unique concept. She's my inspiration.

[@FurryBenderRealNoWay]

Facts bro

[@CPGreeno357]

agreed. however, it's not as sinister as 🍏🔵🌤 tbh

[@rebecca_rh]

I saw Rebecca Sugar at the Animation Festival of Annecy 2019. They were answering questions to a small audience and her husband, Ian Jones-Quartney, was there as well. Rebecca was very sweet and gracious with everyone. The last question someone asked was “what do you think about the criticisms towards the show and certain haters?” And Rebecca started to get emotional, saying she didn’t understand certain claims and as she started to stutter, Ian Took the microphone and said with a slightly angry tone: “this show is about accepting others and Kindness, if some can’t understand that is really on them” he started comforting rebecca and brought her out of the room and the meeting ended there. I’m pretty sure they were talking about Lily The Jerk and her followers, and Ian was clearly mad at them for being so cruel towards Rebecca.

[@smeefo0256]

this is such an important story, thank you so much. poor rebecca ;-; @@rebecca_rh

[@whomilloo]

Lily’s beef with Sugar sounds PERSONAL my god 😭

[@RogueAstro85]

Seems more like jealousy

[@Cookiecrips_05]

@@RogueAstro85she’s so aggressive for no reason 💀

[@whereismymeltatonin3619]

I feel that Lily Orchard completely missed the idea that the more humanoid fusions have good relationships. The reason Lapis and Jasper make a giant monster is cause their relationship is toxic. Garnet is humanoid because they have a strong, solid relationship. Steven and Connie's relationship is stable and strong, so they have a humanoid fusion. ALSO we would come to see that not all human fusions end up fully looking human, as we would get Steg and he has an extra set of arms.

[@birbbirdbrid1149]

She talked about this exact thing in her most recent video

[@alyx6828]

Does Lily not understand that children have things like hips and chests? Saying that Stevonnie is a sexualised character just because they have a human body is crazy, Lily is the one sexualising children's bodies here.

[@oxfordcommaisthegreatest]

Considering some of her controversies... Yeahhh makes sense

[@myspleenisbursting4825]

He's projecting. He assaulted his sister before and projecting it into a fictional character

[@apophis7712]

@@myspleenisbursting4825 It's like how a lot of transphobes are caught jerking it to trans porn As I'm sure you're well aware

[@nicoleflores2054]

​@@myspleenisbursting4825She* Lily is a horrible person but I feel like that is excuse for you and your transphobia to pull out, Don't.

[@myspleenisbursting4825]

i am not going to respect the pronouns of a sex offender@@nicoleflores2054

[@snxffys6436]

i bring a “steven universe wasnt so bad” vibe to the internet that most people don’t approve of

[@GoreHeart]

YES!!!! there are some serious critiques but it doesn’t make it a terrible show!!!

[@indigocrayon8717]

I bring a "I love Steven Universe because it fundamentally changed me as a person and helped me become the person I am today, and helped me accept my queerness thanks to the frankly brilliant representation it had" to the Internet that most people don't approve of. 👍

[@pixisticks]

based........

[@yourfathersinferioritycomplex]

I love this comment section

[@FleegleFazbeagle]

Same, while I'm not a fan, just someone who has seen a small few episodes or seen a few clips but I do appreciate it for the music and animation. Yeah, I basically like the show, it's overhated.

[@milos1967]

I think while Lily definitely deserves this criticism, in my mind she's kinda a symptom of a larger problem. The attention economy has gotten so grotesque on the internet that it's no longer just acceptable to say "here's why I don't like this thing" and instead the video has to be "this is why this piece of media is irredemable GARBAGE." The fact that ragebait/negativity gets so many clicks on this platform rewards lazy, unsubstantiated critiques at best, and vicious misinformation at worst. Yucky.

[@SpiderandMosquito]

Been saying this myself for a long time now

[@Sandstimes]

The way lily completely dropped pretending to not be nbphobic to call stevonnie a "conventionally attractive woman". She would hate how i express myself lol

[@itsanavacadothanks9724]

STOP BC I WAS THINKING THAT THE WHOLE TIME TOO. Stevonnie isn't even that fem!! Has Lily never met a nonbinary person in her life?? Like she has to know that gender identity doesn't equal presentation, especially for nonbinary people...

[@HAOSxy]

I like how Lily is the only person on earth who dislikes nuanced flawed characters, but loves the perfect Mary Sues.

[@HAOSxy]

Also i like how they take every opportunity to say "look how good I am at writing characters"

[@themechanic9974]

I mean no not at all most of the time she likes Flawed character though having a merry Sue every once in a while doseint offend her like you're not even trying to be correct

[@moviemaestro800]

@@themechanic9974 Considering the literal receipts this vid, and many others, have, I think it's safe to say we are far more than just correct. 😘

[@KOTEBANAROT]

@@themechanic9974 she doesnt think these characters are flawed lol. she thinks they're perfect and eveyrone who thinks they're flawed is an evil nazi or whatever. like, to her, a character epically murdering everyone who looks at them wrong is NOT a flaw - its an admirable quality.

[@themechanic9974]

@@moviemaestro800 lol imagine being that delusional

[@flarky6465]

I can't believe the most popular Steven Universe video essay on this website doesn't understand what fusion is. We let Lily Orchard affect the Steven Universe discord for 4 years.

[@HidinginPrivate]

Insane and sad

[@SonicVegeta]

2:35:08 That’s kinda the thing about Lily, she absolutely despises the idea of forgiveness and redemption because she constantly holds grudges against anything that doesn’t constantly give her validation and makes her out to be a perfect human being who can do no wrong. And judging from her most recent video on the Steven Universe, she’s only gotten worse.

[@cameron9206]

she's just mad that she herself is unredeemable irl lol

[@KingYou2002]

I'm curious, how did Lily get worse on her recent video on SU because I am not watching that one?

[@Dragonmongamer]

@@KingYou2002She basically doubled down on everything she said in this video, while trying to say she “grew as a person”

[@PocketDeerBoy]

15:54 ah yes, the filler episode "message received", in which a previous major antagonist insults the person who she's working for to her face and betrays all of her previously held ideals, also showing one of the series' primary antagonist for the first time and affirming Peridot as a recurring ally to our protagonist. I hate when nothing happens in filler episodes!

[@PocketDeerBoy]

I would love to watch the show according to how lilly orchard classifies filler episodes, i assume you could watch the whole show in a couple hours if you did this! Wow, they really wasted so much time developing characters and setting up major plotpoints. I should've been reading the fucking wiki!

[@HavingCrumpets]

"wait when did connie get a sword?" lmao

[@lakibramble]

I really dislike the treatment of suglite. I always liked her as a black kid, none of her design came across as a 'bad depiction of black people.' I honestly think white folks calling her a 'monkey' or a 'grollia' is more racist than anything sugar has said or done. Clearly to me, shes SUPPOSED to be over exaggerated. She looks like a wrestler or a campy drag queen. Shes played by niki, the queen of camp! She looks awesome! Shes every amazing black campy woman i wanted to be as a kid. I like her campy hip hop vibe its really fun, and it really does give the vibe of a campy girl whos a bit extra and goes too far sometimes. I dont mind when people criticize thinhs about her design, but white folks pretending they know our culture better and how it should be represented is very annoying. Especially when they end up saying way more racist shit than anything the crew has done

[@fanaticalistic]

Same, honestly I love how freaky Sugilite looks with her crazy arms and eyes, and her cool glasses. The only thing that bothered me was amethyst's chest window was too large on her chest, making her gem seem extra small.

[@lilaniloxi]

im not black, but i *never* in my life looked at Sugilite's design and went "ugh what a HoRrIbLe CaRrIcAtUrE of a black woman!!1!1 Clearly the designer is racist!!!", i just thought her design was neat and that her physical appearance complimented her strength on screen. Honestly this comment has given me a bigger appreaciation of her design, since i hadn't realised drag queens or wrestlers could've been an inspiration. In terms of canon im leaning towards pro wrestler, Amethyst does do wrestling for fun earlier in the series

[@lakibramble]

@fangi8466 yeah i agree! I also like how she was introduced as a contrast to the first fusion opal. We got to see a range between fusions who are more small and dainty, and ones who are power houses. I like that she's a bit weird it makes sense for the role she plays

[@lakibramble]

@@lilaniloxi I definitely see wrestler. She's definitely got that kind of kayfabe heel vibe (if you know what I mean) she's the wrestler you love to hate and who can sometimes get carried away when she feels powerful

[@zaqareemalcolm]

hope I don't sound too weird; I always thought the first few fusions in the show felt very vaguely inspired by dharmic religion and imagery (in fact, in storyboards, Opal was originally gonna make a manji/卐 with her arms when she summoned her bow, before it got changed for obvious reasons), Sugilite reminded me of Kali and I thought that was pretty cool

[@Maria-fz8km]

Haven't seen anyone else point this out yet, but THANK YOU for correcting Lily calling Rebecca "half-jewish." It was like she was trying to downplay Rebecca's Jewish heritage to make calling them a fascist sympathizer less obviously abhorrent

[@morganqorishchi8181]

Fun fact, Lily is brownfacing and pretending to be Cherokee despite not being claimed by the Cherokee Nation, being white and having never tried to connect to Cherokee people. So the person calling Rebecca Sugar "half Jewish" is, in fact, lying about their own heritage in order to hide behind calling anyone who disagrees with them racist against indigenous people.

[@NapaCat]

Half-Jewish isn't even a thing- You're half ethnically Jewish and/or raised interreligiously. You can't be 'half-Jewish'.

[@myspleenisbursting4825]

​​@@NapaCatif a jewish person marries a non jewish person, his son will be half jewish

[@mammoneymelon]

what a bizarre thing to call someone? there's almost an implication that you're only able to "half" embrace a part of your identity, which is weird and just wrong

[@JDM-is-my-name]

I am white, both my parents are different sects of Christianity, so that's where I'm coming from. I absolutely HATE the idea of identifying as "half" something, especially if it's done on behalf of someone else. My understanding of race, ethnicity and so on is, of course, very different from people who live in more mixed communities, but even my parents half never forced me to think of myself as "half" of anything, even when it's something as silly as my mother being born on one island and my dad on the other. I hope I'm not stepping on any toes when I say that being called "half-jewish" sounds like Lily needs to suck a lime while upside down. It's hurtful and harmful to force that kind of fake label on someone else without their consent.

[@artemiswolf4508]

“Everyone guessed Pink Diamond was Rose the moment her name was mentioned so it wasn’t a twist” *NO* just no. I’m not going to participate in this blatant historical revisionism. I WAS THERE. Although it is technically true that the theory that Rose was pink diamond has existed since her name was mentioned (and even a bit before that thanks to some great environmental storytelling) It was a fringe theory, the fandom as a whole didn’t guess shit. Admiting you even thought it was possible will get you laughed at and not a lot of people took it seriously. Later on as the evidence kept piling on it did gain credibility and became very popular, however it still wasn’t universally acknowledged as an “obvious twist”. Plenty of people in the fandom where still throwing out alternative ideas the literal day before the reveal. And a lot of people where shock, even the ones who believe in the theory were still excited because they weren’t 100% sure if they were right. With the benefit of hindsight it is very easy to say it was obvious from the start (there is legitimately a lot of foreshadowing for it) but if you were actually there that theory went against basically everything we thought we knew about Rose and the diamonds for a long time, and the pacing of those preconceptions getting dismantle was subtle enough to misdirect a lot of people.

[@cyruscrompton8221]

It sounds silly but I think the biggest piece of evidence is just coloring Theres a lot gems with similar colors, except pink. I think theres like 3 but Spinel came way later

[@TheBonkleFox]

Like what the fuck did she want them to do? Did she want them to go full Monarch? Because you never go full Monarch. (Context: DC once had a storyline where there was a villain from the future named Monarch, and the story hinted that he was one of the present-day superheroes turned evil. Based on hints and context dropped during the story, readers guessed that Monarch was, in fact, a future Captain Atom. Turns out that was exactly what the plan was, but then someone at DC threw a hissy fit and then the next parts of the story were written as "FUCK YOU, IT WAS ACTUALLY HAWK! It makes no sense but FUCK YOU!" You actually WANT your twist to be foreseeable. It builds up for the cathartic payoff when it's revealed. Otherwise you're left with a bullshit mess that makes no sense.)

[@cyruscrompton8221]

@TheBonkleFox you could also say "IT WAS ME ALL ALONG AUSTIN" or anything from fnaf

[@KungFuPanda1223]

fr i remember seeing all the rose is pd theories and thought that it was too crazy to be real

[@Buglin_Burger7878]

I was there as well, I remember the "fringe" theory being commonly talked about and debated. Unless I'm mistaken I saw a lot of people guess that theory and I was one of the ones who came up with it on their own because if you understand basic story telling it makes sense. Pink needed character time, so Rose had to be that. Otherwise Pink's "death "wouldn't work for a core narrative point with the framing of the story following mostly Steven.

[@Conformist138]

Oh man, that rant about "no 14 year old having a developed body, we just only got acne" is so strange. I grew a chest in grade school. I was 11, just a bit younger than Connie and Steven, when this exact thing started to happen to me. Older boys and even men approaching me in public. I wasn't even a conventionally pretty girl, I just got a more "mature" figure very young. I saw the show as an adult, since I am an Old, but I related to Stevonnie both internally enjoying being this older and more mature self, while also being wierded out and confused by that kind of attention it brings from others. I think Lily just wants to pretend kids dont go through anything related to mental sexual maturation until after puberty is all done. To her, acknowledging the awkward in-between time is only done for salacious purposes.

[@denizkomur5010]

Hearing her criticism of Stevonne literally made me cry. Watching them fuse for the first time, knowing that it was a boy and a girl inside that singular body, said more to me than any other piece of queer media. I was about 10 when I saw that episode, and would constantly get shit on for dressing in a more “boyish” way. Seeing Stevonne exist as a person helped me realize that your clothes don’t define your gender, and that certain personality traits aren’t mutually exclusive with male and female. That character helped me realize that gender isn’t binary, that all of these material markers of gender can simply be ignored if you want to. So I think a show that was able to convey that to a 10 year old is a damn good show.

[@boss_boy_]

look, dude, you really shouldn't be on here. I don't mean that in a "LOL NERD GET LOST LOSER" way, but rather in a "You cannot engage with criticism" kind of way. If you can't allow for some random internet asshole to call a show you like poopy doodoo shitto without breaking out into a panic attack then you need to work on yourself mentally. You cannot let yourself get this attached to fictional characters, it will only hurt you in the long run. I don't know what your life is irl, but I recommend from the bottom of my heard that you try to make some friends, join a school club, maybe even get a job on the weekends.

[@abdulmulkiaulde3014]

not a queer btw but. damn stevonie is cool as hell yo a first magic impossible human-gem fusion ? a boy and a girl in one body ? a lovely protector and healer and deadly smart and tactical swordmaster in one body ? a general better combat abilty than a separated version of steven and connie ? beside your comment about stevonie is about breaking gender stereotype and be yourself stevonie has so many cool stuff concept that can be offered

[@user-dt2uv8ej2i]

The scene where they grow facial hair is forever stuck in my head as something incredible. and yes, hearing someone call them "just a generic woman" after that is... no. just no. Stevonnie is one of the best representations for nonbinary (and/or intersex) people out there, even if that representation is subtle. It says just enough to mean so much to someone who saw themself in Stevonnie, and I can't help but be forever grateful to SU for that. Because it's not just about showing a nonbinary character. It's about context. And honestly, about subtlety too. Stevonnie just exists, they are just being themself, and... I dunno. It's stuck with me for years for a reson. Claiming that it wasn't "obvious enough" that Stevonnie is nonbinary is like saying "you're not really trans, unless you..." which is harmful and stupid. And also, Stevonnie looking a bit more fem leaning when our POV character is a boy kind of makes sense. I don't thing going in the opposite direction would've made it "more clear" somehow. But also... does it matter at all how Stevonnie looks? I mean, maybe it does, but who they are and what they represent is way more important. Stevonnie is great, Stevonnie is enough, and anyone who claims they aren't somehow a good rep either doesn't understand what they're talking about or, frankly, doesn't want to understand.

[@ywoisug8845]

Weakling

[@denizkomur5010]

@@ywoisug8845 💀

[@iceynn4645]

Lily's overdramatic freakout over the "Sexualization of stevonnie" is really, really ironic considering the things she's done/written. I don't know how someone with that track record can get so angry about taboos they've already committed

[@ThatGreenMach1ne]

Lily is projecting so hard.

[@PipisFootStank]

Yeah... There was literally nothing sexual about Stevonnie... the fact that she kept getting those thoughts speaks for herself

[@samuelclayhills3298]

Yeah even Kevin mr slimy douchebag bailed when he found out it was two kids althoug that probably aint a problem for Lilly.

[@neoqwerty]

@@ThatGreenMach1ne Petition to rename Lily Orchard to Lily IMAX Theatre.

[@thetoongrump9801]

I'm at this section now and crying with laughter. Lily is so pressed about nothing!

[@TreeDwellingShrimp]

I'm so tired of this idea that if a 'bad thing' is shown in media, then the creator must endorse said 'bad thing' and just including a depiction of it (regardless of what it's trying to say) reveals something fundamentally bad about the creator themselves. Like it's evidence of their moral failings. Having Uncle Andy be a bigot doesn't mean Rebecca is a bigot too or agrees with him. The point is to show he's WRONG. What is with people anymore? They're so unhinged. I see these 'hot takes' all the time on twt and it's so annoying. People have horrible media literacy skills (and lack common sense) and need everything literally spelled out for them or they'll give the least charitable interpretation of stuff that usually results in a creator being labeled with some flavor of bigotry or creep. Then when it is spelled out for them they'll turn around to complain the writing is awful and the team are treating the viewers like braindead kids. It's a lose-lose game that stifles creativity.

[@KingYou2002]

I fully agree. I think some people just like complaining for the sake of complaining.

[@zadirat]

2:48:34 "this scene is so sinister" the scene that looks like peridot found onions in her burger even if she never asked for them, looking like "its fine" while lapis is ready to complain to the cashier demanding for the manager

[@CannoliSlugYT]

Even I can feel how sinister Lapis' face is~! She's about to complain this to the cashier~!

[@Cinnabun9]

Someone's gotta draw this lol

[@i.j.dragonfly3123]

Lily insisting that Lapis was THE abuser ("imagine writing a scene this sinister looking!!!") has intense vibes of "if you're being mistreated and you lash out, you're actually the evil one." Which is both ironic given her other criticisms of the show, and also... really fucking hurtful to victims.

[@inky-rose6460]

Like it was also obvious Lapis and Jasper's fusion was meant to represent a two sided extremely toxic relationship where BOTH of them enjoyed having that power in a way

[@chaosbeam4654]

But that’s just the way trauma is. Lilly clearly wants it to be cute and aesthetic or whatever, but it’s not.

[@palemeadows]

@@inky-rose6460Even then, I’d disagree, Lapis reacted to abuse, it’s different. Jasper was the one who started the abuse and continued it, Lapis actually made it clear it was unhealthy.

[@Zectifin]

I bet Lily was a Depp stan. god forbid someone hit their abuser.

[@vvvolato]

@@Zectifinyou mean heard stan? i thought she was the abuser

[@beebs4283]

Honestly, Lily’s opinion on cartoons is the least heinous thing about her. Every time I learn something new about her it is something absolutely repugnant.

[@daniapfel2825]

Yeah me too

[@thecheck968]

It’s actually impressive how many times Lily’s proven that I can think less of her

[@StardustCorvid]

*Stockholm*

[@deathchan657]

I got really upset with her Hunter video. It's like she doesn't actually pay attention to the shows she's watching

[@Little_Eris]

@@StardustCorvidnot just Stockholm but her Pokemadhouse and The Sith resurgence.

[@prageruwu69]

2:34:04 andy being lumped in with the diamonds is so funny 💀 like "why would you redeem such evil people like h*tler 2 and steven's mildly racist uncle"

[@themechanic9974]

I can't stop laughing I literally burst out it's midnight I can't handle this I don't know why I find it so funny

[@Dragonmongamer]

And Andy at the very least warmed up to the Gems after having dinner with the CGs in Gem Harvest

[@cameron9206]

based username

[@captaincrazycreative]

The consistently worse Diamonds Lars Renaldo and Andy Is genuinely so iconic just...the amount of unintentional comedy

[@toasttitan3253]

I would also like to point out that people love to ignore that Rebecca was one of the main writers of Adventure Time for years before Steven Universe and wrote multiple fan favourite episodes But sure Lily “she’s not a writer”

[@teamesh]

It's crazy for her to call SU half-baked, wishy washy representation, When Rebecca had to fight so hard with Cartoon Network to have Ruby and Sapphire's wedding, and not let it be played down as a heterosexual straight wedding. Like they lost funding for it bc homophobic countries didn't want to air Ruby in a dress, and couldn't play them off as a straight couple in their countries. They had to make sacrifices, Rebecca had to Stick her neck out for lgbt reb. Nothing about this was taking the easy way out. Like it was the first to do this. I question, Would we have Bubbline or She-ra or Owlhouse if SU hadn't of happened.

[@beetlegeuse1961]

I can tell you for a fact we wouldn't, she literally walked so everyone else could run

[@ruffboimags]

And we still barely HAD Owlhouse bc it's still that much of a gamble to include queer characters and themes. Like, the fuckin AUDACITY to call SU half-baked and wishy washy when it was literally out there CLEARING THE PATH FOR OTHER SHOWS TO HAVE IT EVEN A LITTLE EASIER, like... I just can't. Also last I checked Lily is still a largely awful person with horrible media criticism skills so sadly I don't think she's changed as much as HiP hopes.

[@geekygecko1849]

I mean we also wouldn't have Bubbline without Rebecca given they are the one who created that ship as well

[@dragonstormx]

Lily makes a lot of broad claims while making it clear she doesn't understand the production of TV. She also claimed that Korra's second season having a short production wasn't a big deal.

[@BubbyBoy]

​@@dragonstormx not enough people compare Lily Orchard with Mr. Enter, but the comparison is really underrated. Both are clueless about how shows are written, both get overly fixated on things that are arguably pointless, both conflate their preferences to objective standards of writing, both have vendettas on specific writers, and both are on the spectrum. At least Enter isn't a pedophile and has self awareness.

[@stellapolaris9511]

Lily was so pissed about the ending of ATLA that she legit gaslit herself into thinking it ended with Ozai choking on his own blood, apparently

[@NguyenNam-qx7jy]

Nah you're definitely joking

[@Xx_SuperPenis_xX]

she praised ATLA and shat on steven for being a pacifist while Aang straight up spared Ozai but took his bending away

[@souplife1]

​@@NguyenNam-qx7jy??? can you read?

[@NguyenNam-qx7jy]

@@souplife1 wdym

[@RRed19]

I mean when her advice to someone who is being bullied and the bully refuses to stop is to and I quote “Pick up the biggest book or thing you can swing, and beat their fucking head in.” Lily is a genuinely awful person, isn’t she?

[@gabriellegoodwin4422]

Lily Orchard is a horrible person who has abused everyone in her life in some way. Her painting Lapis fighting Jasper as abusive is hardcore projection. She expects her victims to give in, and if they don’t she labels them as abusive and tells all of their friends and family about how horrible they are. This video is so goddamn revealing I can’t believe she would post it.

[@mechamischief]

THIS. I'm seeing that a ton of her SU critiques were her projecting her personal feelings onto the show. Like the part where she hated on one of Steven's character progressions, from going with the flow and demanding we have to fight the bad guys, to deescalating the situation with a non-violent approach seems like projection from her part too if you know about how aggressive of a person Lily is, and also remembering a time where she believed a way to stop bullying is to "just beat them up and punch them in the face." Her solution to a conflict is to cause violence is because she aggressive.

[@gabriellegoodwin4422]

She should be in a museum she’s a fucking caricature of herself it’s incredible

[@randompromises1038]

Something that stuck out to me was how she said something like "Being quiet and complacent in an abusive situation gets you abused more. You shouldn't be quiet, you should fight back." (I'm paraphrasing heavily because I'm not going to go back and rewatch the video it was from). There's already discourse about "good" victims versus "bad" and at the time of my own abuse I was just a tiny 11yo child and my abuser was my mother who got away with what she did for so long only because she was good at lying to people and she manipulated me into thinking I deserved it. And at the time of hearing what Lily said it really messed me up because I legitimately could not fight back. I wasn't even out of elementary school and I didn't even call what happened to me abuse until I was 15. It felt so victim-blamey and I hated myself for a long time for it. I was a child. A _lot_ of abuse survivors were just children.

[@mechamischief]

​@@randompromises1038 It is totally victim-blaming. I had a similar experience when I was getting bullied. When I would tell my close friends about the harassment I dealt with, I was always left with them questioning, "Well, why didn't you fight them back or something? They're only going to pick on you more if you don't do anything." I know how you feel about those types of judgment messing you up because they certainly did to me. I felt like I shouldn't complain because I didn't do anything about it, but like you said, I literally couldn't do much about it myself unless I told the teacher and seek out counseling. Also, the statement about compliance only make you get abused more is not only untrue, but it invalidates the experiences of people who did fight back against their abuser and the situation got worse. There are countless stories of victims lashing out at their abusers, and their abusers uses their rage and defense as leverage against them to further frame their victims as the abusers. I'm sorry that you had to go through that experience. And I wish you well, and I hope you're in a safe, better place now.

[@gabriellegoodwin4422]

@@randompromises1038 sounds like you were in a situation where a much larger and more powerful person took advantage of their power to hurt you. You couldn't have fought back, and you shouldn't have had to. You were a child. I hope you're doing well now.

[@Bepetoni]

Gods, hearing Lily of all people call others "creeps" over something that she made up in her head 💀

[@boomgirlbucko]

Claiming that Stevonnie is sexualized is like the people claiming that Mei was making profit off nudes and her period from Turning Red. If something isn't inherently sexual and you claim it is, it's YOU sexualizing it, not the show or movie

[@Blue-ux4sk]

WHAT ? this was actual discourse?

[@andreadrussel2716]

@@Blue-ux4sk Unfortunately.

[@boomgirlbucko]

@@Blue-ux4sk Yeah, and BionicPig (movie reviewer) was the first to be bold enough to point out that it was the fans sexualizing it, not the movie.

[@Pos1tr0nic]

It reminds me of how the DireGentleman/We Are Not Alive video on Lily's writing tips (which I otherwise enjoyed) goes on a tangent about how 'weird' it is that two kids fuse together to be a 'legally consenting adult'. And I'm just like... they're literally two kids in a trench coat! Why are you bringing that into this when it was never on the table!

[@Santoryu90]

⁠@@boomgirlbuckoThe people who think I kinda doubt were really fans of the movie

[@moonaramam1132]

The sheer gall lily has to call Rebecca sugar a "problematic writer" when she herself has written MLP fanfics with abuse, incest and p*dophilia is INSANE. Rebecca isnt the best writer but sure as hell is pretty good. Lily is very much bitter and projecting

[@justanotherperson3337]

It is absolutely mind boggling to me!

[@AlfaresAnas]

I remember an Ed, Edd and Eddy yaoi that was made by Rebecca Sugar tho lol

[@jesusrox4u]

@@AlfaresAnas Yeah, haven’t seen it, but I do agree that is pretty sus of her to make that since they likely aren’t adults in the yaoi.

[@AlfaresAnas]

@@jesusrox4u kinda weird she didn't get called out for this, only some people on reddit did, and no one did anything, Rebecca Sugar is (secretly) female EDP445 if she actually likes child corn

[@jesusrox4u]

@@AlfaresAnas It is weird she made sus material herself. At least with the art she did that looks like it’s from Adult Party Cartoon, it could maybe be argued that who she drew are adults (idk for sure yet).

[@tintedpalette653]

The way people online have uncritically parroted Lily’s video on SU have made me completely dissociate with any online conversations about SU. It is too exhausting to talk to people who are discussing a fundamentally different version of the actual show because they took Lily’s video as gospel. A good portion of who did not actually watch the show, or haven’t rewatched it since they were in like middle school. The show has flaws, fans of the show will be the first to tell you as much. But holy shit, there is so much bad faith and straight up misinformation that doesn’t need to be perpetuated the way it does. Lily’s video has poisoned the well of discussion around SU for years and I truly despise it for that.

[@itsamebi413]

Rewatching the Lapis segment made me realise that I internalised Lily's opinion on abusers as a dumb teen and ended up being really hurt because of it later in life. Now I'm really glad that this video ended up in my recommendations.

[@trinityssnow]

I honestly HATE how in Lily's mind, a fem leaning body type (with curves n such) is AUTOMATICALLY sexual when not completely covered up. There are plenty of woman, trans women, and afab individuals who have curvy bodies before they hit 18- that doesn't make their bodies sexual and it's not weird either to draw/animate a teenage girl to have hips or a slight bump in the chest area, because most teenager girls and afab individuals HAVE JUST THAT. It's so sexist and paints literal children's bodies as inherently sexual simply over secondary sexual characteristics they can't do anything about. It also paints masc and male bodies as the base or norm or what you're supposed to lean more when being enby. It's just nasty. PS. Lily has been confirmed to be sexuall inappropriate towards minors on multiple occasions, this is tbh the most likely reason she keeps overtly sexualizing fem bodies of underaged characters :/

[@AnakhaSilver]

Also like. Stevonnie is wearing a crop top in a fucking BEACH TOWN. Like. Seriously???

[@smidlem1117]

as a trans woman, one thing that I think warrants discussion in our community but gets talked around are the women and femmes who don't do the work to rid themselves of toxic views on sexuality taught to them by a society that presumed them male. too many transfem people for my liking cross over from incel territories and lily orchard's weird combination of intense sexualisation combined with a superficially puritan aesthetic (declaring sex scenes narratively useless universally in the 100 writing tips, not interacting with adult fiction in any way, etc) is like. completely fucking bang-on for being a trans-cel, to make my own neologism. disgusting stuff that absolutely repulses me from parts of the community

[@Bionickpunk]

@@AnakhaSilver A longer shirt would hide Steven´s gem, and all the fusions never hid their gems, even if they can make their own clothing designs.

[@ovgem]

@@smidlem1117 the 100 writing tips is such a juxtaposition from lily orchard's actions, AKA writing a p3dophilic fanfiction allegedly based on her sister's story and messaging minors

[@RRed19]

@@AnakhaSilverthat’s what bothering me. It’s a beach town, it’s hot and humid. You’re gonna wear loose clothes or as little clothing as you can so you don’t melts

[@Laiser]

34:07 Okay, so this criticism from Lily has bothered me for YEARS because it so clearly misinterprets Steven's relationship with violence. Steven being excited and gleeful with violence was only early in the show because he thought it was cool and he only ever fought against literal monsters. Once REAL violence started affecting Steven and his loved ones ( Steven The Sword Fighter, ENTIRE JAILBREAK ARC), his entire perception of violence changes. This is not inconsistent writing like she claims, it's literally the most blatant example of subtle character development throughout the show and she completely misses it. By "Bismuth" Steven has been severely negatively affected by violence and does not view it as he once did, hence why he's uncomfortable.

[@MatsuyoRific]

Agreed. It's like trying to condemn someone for being a vegetarian because they ate meat as a child, and said they liked it. They had to come to that realization themselves. No one starts out saying "I don't think eating meat is right." They see how animals are killed and decide they don't want to support that. They make that conscious decision that their desire to become vegetarian outweighs their thought that hamburgers are tasty. They can still remember that they thought hamburgers were tasty, while still obstaining from eating them. Note: This is not me preaching about the "evils of meat eating". I'm just making a comparison to show how stupid it is to condemn Steven for being excited about violence as a kid, and then deciding later to be a pacifist.

[@manumooo9071]

Literally there's a lot of symbolism about why steven has a shield rather than a sword or other weapons, he prefers to protect rather than attack, and the audience then asks why he doesn't go berserk, like, dude... Almost every "hero story goes like that give it a rest

[@jtlego1]

​​​@@manumooo9071 and contrary to what the Anti-Steven memes to this day insinuate, Steven is perfectly capable of fighting back and using his shield in a combative manner. Remember the shield gauntlets he made in The Movie?

[@MissJasmine305]

@@manumooo9071 I also noticed this especially when it came to Rose's sword. To my recollection, Steven never actually wields the sword in the show. In face, the only one other than Rose/Pink Diamond to actively wield it is Connie, who was presumably given the sword by Steven. Note: I could be wrong about this it's been awhile since I've seen the show. But I'm pretty sure Steven never uses the sword in combat.

[@TheNightmareRider]

That, and what would shattering the Diamonds achieve? Suppose he did shatter them. Then what? There would be a power vacuum. Steven and the Crystal Gems start by changing the culture of strict hierarchies and caste systems first, THEN he uses his authority as Pink Diamond (something he only learned later on) to be granted an air of authority. He shows White Diamond that no matter how much you try, no authority will be able to control everyone.

[@Aburaishi]

My main takeaway from this video is that Lily is an unbelievably bad author. In summary, she advocates (passionately) for plot-driven stories where character development happens in big clumsy chunks entirely separate from the plot, if at all, and characters have no meaningful nuance whatsoever (having proudly stated that she "exclusively" writes characters who "own their ruthlessness"). You've expressed optimism regarding Lily's development into a better person, which I respect and appreciate; I hope to God she's improved as a writer. Some of these criticisms were extremely telling.

[@borgerroing9410]

"Stevonnie is oversexualised" is a wild take from the author of Stockholm ngl

[@patacas3155]

YEAH IT IS!!!

[@GravityFaiz]

“Stevonnie is oversexualized” Says the person who made RD into a s3x obsessed pdfile in her shitty MLP fanfic. Says the per who made Adagio grøøm a young girl in her other shitty MLP fanfic. SAYS THE PERSON WHO DID AND IMAGINED DOING INAPPROPRIATE THINGS TO HER SISTER.

[@krystalaranha3779]

Lily has done unimaginable damage to media criticism especially in regards to children's media in the years since this video came out

[@mr.x2567]

Absolutely. I hope the FBI finds her one day and she finally gets what is coming to her.

[@kostajovanovic3711]

Isn't that the entire cartoon community( with her being the absolute frontrunner)?

[@JamesP7]

@@kostajovanovic3711No, plenty of excellent cartoon analysts exist. Heck, a group that Lily was once a part of (before being rightfully kicked out) was the brony analyst community, dedicated to respectfully analyzing, theorizing, and interpreting episodes, characters, scenes, and themes of MLP:FiM.

[@kostajovanovic3711]

​@@JamesP7I am not Joseph McCartney, you can name them

[@JamesP7]

@@kostajovanovic3711 Who’s that? Name who? There were like a hundred people in the main group, alongside dozens of solo analysts separate from them that made their own content. Naming any of them doesn’t really change my point.

[@jeffreyfiegen1538]

Hearing Lily Orchard trying to spin an abuse victim as the actual abuser makes more sense in the context of how she treated the people she lived with IRL.

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

Let's not forget that Stockholm fanfic in to the mix regarding about Lily's sister, which recalls how awful Lily is.

[@nenakarra2579]

NO EXACTLY

[@lilyowo4986]

lapis is an abuser still

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

@@lilyowo4986 Wrong.

[@nenakarra2579]

@@lilyowo4986 lol. lmao.

[@sleepylionking1103]

People really need to realize HAD STEVEN KILLED THE DIAMONDS, HE COULD’VE STARTED A BIGGER, WORSE WAR. That’s the literal side of the “redemption”. He doesn’t like the gems as shown in Future (and the fact that he nearly murdered White for what she did to him and his family) but there’s literally nothing else he can do without making hit worse bc fighting fire with fire hurts EVERYONE.

[@KingYou2002]

Also, Steven killing the diamonds would be thematically inconsistent. You can't have a show about mental health, communication, love, and empathy, meanwhile having Steven killing the Diamonds. If you want another example as to this scenario applied but to a different show, it was just as popular as SU by the way. I'm talking about Star vs. the Forces of Evil. That show ended with Star killing millions of magical beings to "stop a genocide", and look how that ended. Now that show is widely seen as a joke.

[@TenthFourteenthDoctor]

@@KingYou2002 I don't know, a show for even younger viewers, The Lion Guard, has a villain burn to death in lava, on screen. And from my own childhood, there is Transformers Cybertron. It had themes of teamwork and friendship but Megatron/Galvatron, was representative of total selfishness, it would be thematically nonsensical for him to be reformed, so, Optimus killed him.

[@themechanic9974]

And you need to realise someone wrote it like that

[@Puppycatstolemycar]

1:42:45 My experience with puberty was EXACTLY as Rebecca Sugar described it and it is very clear that Lily doesn't know much about other people's experience with puberty outside of her own and it shows with her condescending statements about Stevonie. Puberty doesn't start at 13 or 14 for everyone, especially those who are afab. Thats why the (incorrect) statement that goes "girls mature faster than boys" has been said throughout the years. I started puberty at 9 years old, I got my first period at 11. I was wearing DD bras and had wide hips and thighs before I was even a freshman in high school and the mental, emotional and physical whiplash I got from being a kid playing barbies while watching SpongeBob to getting catcalled by 3 grown men in a car while riding my bike on the exact same day was traumatizing to say the least. And while my puberty didn't LITERALLY happen to me overnight it definitely felt like it did at the time especially when looking back on it now as an adult. It was so confusing to still think and act like a kid on the inside (because I still was!) to being seen and treated as an "adult" on the outside just because of the weird changes happening to my body that I had 0 control over. That first episode with Stevonie was so relatable to me, especially as a genderfluid person who did have those experiences with how people perceived me verses how I actually felt about myself. Steven Universe didn't come out until I was well into college but if I could, I would show my younger self that episode specifically to help heal from some of the damage that was being done to me at the time and I know for a fact (thanks therapy!) that my inner child has healed so much thanks to this show ❤🧡💛💚💙💜

[@tearoses9940]

The point about Pearl and Rose/Pink’s relationship. I’ve seen some people be like “How could she have picked Greg over Pearl? They had so much history, Pearl was willing to die for her, etc” but that’s the thing. Pearl _idolized_ Rose/Pink, who was understandably uncomfortable with being put on that pedestal, and had told Pearl that she didn’t want to be treated like that. Greg treated her like an equal from the beginning, even almost forgetting that she wasn’t another human.

[@dalailarose1596]

Yes! This is what the so-called "Nice Guys" don't get; most women don't want to be put on a pedestal & "treated like a princess", & it's not because we want to be "treated like crap" instead; it's because we want to be treated like PEOPLE. I want to be cherished & respected & supported, but not worshipped.

[@melvin2313]

Its also a good kids lesson, sometimes you can choose not to reciprocate a another persons love if its not right for you. I love how rose/pearl is not the ultimate way a relationship could be and is the right way to love someone, we choose who we want to be with not the other way around.

[@calvintyler9281]

This reminds me of THAT duo from darling in the franx with the nice girl who abandons her friend and the guy who's basically forced to ignore how terrible she did him.

[@WitchyThyme]

Also, Rose is one of the best portrayals of how messy having a dead parent you never got to meet can be. As kids who lost a parent grow up, they hear the idyllic version. But as they get older, and as people begin to unpack and process their grief and loss and transgressions that cannot be addressed to the deceased, it can get messy. It can feel complicated and awful and it can feel like a betrayal, and its one the person isn't able to stand up for themselves or articulate their side of things. It can lead to resentment and frustration and pain, especially if that dead person themselves had a lot of baggage they didn't resolve. Suddenly it's like every problem they ever had is spilling into your lap and you're finding out about awful sides of them you'd been sheltered from, but all of it stems from the fact that part of the grieving process is anger and it is not a linear process. Sometimes learning about a dead loved one is messy and traumatic and complicated, and not enough childrens shows tackle that concept and I feel that's unfair to the kids who have to go through that. Steven Universe says "It's okay to feel hurt by and ashamed of the choices you found out a parent made before they passed away, and you're not obligated to follow their path, and it's okay to be angry about the things that you find out. It's okay if they aren't a happy thought to you, it's okay for it to be messy."

[@spongecakes1986]

Nah, clearly the author of your life is just confused, or even thinking your clearly bad relative was good actually and is a terrible person. I'd like to speak with your author's manager please.

[@WitchyThyme]

@@spongecakes1986 At no point did I mention the word 'good' or allude to it. I'll try to rephrase it in a different way, maybe it'll make more sense then? "Sometimes as you grow up you hear a lot of nice things about your dead relative that you never met, but then as people around you process their feelings and grief about them they start to voice very negative things. And you find out about the bad things that person did too, not just the good stuff you were told about when you were younger. You have to reckon with the reality that this was an actual person who did actual things and made choices that hurt people you love, despite the fact that they loved this person, too. And because this person isn't here to talk to you or tell you their side of it, all you have is messy, complicated and hurt feelings with no easy or clear way to begin sorting through it all, and it is traumatic. You go from idolizing someone and wishing you'd been able to meet them, to being deeply ashamed of them and feeling betrayed by them." It's the same kind of feeling that, say, a child growing up after their parent died in a car crash might feel. But then as they grow up, they find out their parent had an addiction issue, and hurt a lot of people, and maybe left them with some health issues as a direct result of their substance abuse. And now those hurt and complicated feelings about their dead parent have no real resolution because they can't talk to the dead parent about it. Our lives have no authors. There is no clear, logical or comfortable narrative. People are complicated and messy, and their legacy is complicated and messy as a result. Characters like Steven help kids process those feelings, and seeing them in a character makes them feel less alone and less ashamed of being disappointed in their dead relative, or resenting the problems they left behind.

[@spongecakes1986]

@@WitchyThyme I was joking. I completely understood what you meant, I was just making a joke about how Lilly Orchard interpreted Rose Quartz/Pink Diamond. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear, though.

[@ashhabimran239]

Reminds me of how Harry Potter felt when he found out what his father was really like

[@WitchyThyme]

@@ashhabimran239 That's a pretty good comparison to make, though I feel like Rowling flubbed that plot-thread pretty hard. Along with everything else, and her decency as a human being. I always wish she'd done better with the "My parents weren't the people everyone told me they were, because they were Real and no one ever sees every part of another person." thing, but alas.

[@mysteryacount123]

Lily "allegdly abused my sister" orchard trying her best to paint an abuse victim as the abuser and the abuser as an innocent victim is wrong on so many levels....

[@salt3685]

The deleting of all critical or counter comments on her videos is so damn manipulating, holy shit. Coming from her updated SU video, that comment section reads like an alternative universe or something. Even in the updated SU video, someone literally pointed out that it was kind of odd to see no negative or counter arguments to the actual video itself, and her response was that no one actually had any genuine counter points besides spam, and those were cleared out by a “spam” filter. As someone who was put off from checking out SU because of her video until just recently, I was so shocked when I actually sat down and watched the show cause holy shit does she completely misinterpret and misrepresent the show. It’s not perfect, and there are some parts I do have some criticisms for, but there were also way more great moments that got me super emotional, and that I am bummed I skipped out on when I was younger and would have actually benefited a lot from hearing. That echo chamber of a comment section really had me thinking SU was the most problematic kids show to come out of CN, and that everyone agreed unless you were a die hard psycho fan. I feel like such a fool, when all I had to do was actually watch it to know how misleading her interpretation of it was.

[@cyruscrompton8221]

Yeah her claim that it's a "spam filter" is SUPER fishy. I don't know how a lot of that works with KZbin comments but it's not working well apparently because i can still see new comments that say funny quick things about how wrong she is (like "yes you were wrong lol") But NO critical comments??? That's absurd

[@junacreates]

the portion of lily orchard’s video about stevonnie is so aggravating. they’re blatantly being transphobic against stevonnie just because they don’t perfectly fit what she thinks a non-binary person should look like? and literally calls them a woman?? nonbinary people don’t have to be perfectly androgynous for them to be valid, and even then, stevonnie still has so many androgynous features! and the fact that lily sees stevonnie as “sexualized” just because they have a more curvy body type definitely says something about how SHE views curvier people. literally no one saw it as sexual but her. make it make sense.

[@crustpunkjesuschrist]

Stevonnie literally grows stubble when stranded on the planet in season 5 but still they’re still somehow “too feminine” to be nonbinary? Wild shit

[@nametho3347]

“Just because they have a curvy body type”?? Did you NOT see the video?

[@junacreates]

@@nametho3347 i did watch the video. the way that stevonnie is portrayed in the series is no different than with any other character, and the only possible explanation for lily seeing it as stevonnie being more sexualized is most likely because of their body type. lily suggests that it’s because the angles they’re shot at are more suggestive but if you watch the show, you’ll see so many other instances where different characters (with different body types) are shot at the same angles. also the body type itself is not suggestive, it’s a *normal body* and is literally just a combination of steven and connie’s body types. and the way stevonnie acts is their combined character traits. and there may be some characters who kind of crush on them but those characters don’t know that they’re actually just steven and connie. and as soon as kevin finds out this information when they unfuse, he’s disgusted that he was technically hitting on two kids, because he didn’t know that at first. he wasn’t deliberately crushing on minors. look, i don’t want to argue about this, this is just the conclusion that i’ve drawn from watching this video. if you don’t agree with that, at least be respectful about it or keep it to yourself. thank you and have a nice day

[@Man-wolf-]

Not to mention-her claiming making stevonnie nonbinary is “boring” and “not as good” as making steven a trans girl(even tho nothing in the show hinted at him being a trans girl-he litrealy hates being constantly refered to as “she”)

[@junacreates]

@@crustpunkjesuschrist i 100% agree with this. and even if stevonnie was “100% feminine”, that doesn’t invalidate their nonbinary identity. it’s a matter of how that person perceives themselves and their gender, not their expression. i guess stubble isn’t really “expression”, but afab nonbinary people exist and despite having (mostly) biological features that are deemed “female”, they’re still nonbinary

[@hugo_the_waffle]

The fact that she really said all those disrespectful shit about lapis, stevonnie and rebecca and still had the gut to scream about how sexualized stevonnie is literally so embrassing. like mf do YOU have eyes 😭😭??

[@HidinginPrivate]

Literally

[@morganqorishchi8181]

Lily has been caught looking at 3D, photorealistic loli, shotacon and toddlercon on Sankaku Complex, so my guess is yes, she does, and what she saw, she thought wasn't hot enough.

[@SphericalNervousSystem]

@@morganqorishchi8181adding to that, she literally co-wrote Stockholm. A disturbing fanfic that involves children and smut. Just gross. Lily does not deserve a platform.

[@grimtheghastly8878]

​@@SphericalNervousSystemshe also allegedly would molest her younger sister and partially based Stockholm off of the disgusting shit she wanted to do to her

[@kaos5633]

@@SphericalNervousSystem she also made doomsday rising and creeped on her sister, later went on to insert fantasies about her sister into stockholm

[@shooshoo4590]

1:25:17 has another contradiction. She says that all the queer characters are all gems, and then SECONDS LATER shows the Rose look a like who Pearl flirts with/gets the phone number of. Unless Lily has some deep lore info we dont, that girl is a human who is queer? How did she not notice that in editing.

[@themechanic9974]

Lilly doseint really do much with video editing her videos for the most part are meant to be listened to out side of her bringing attention to scenes

[@aliyah1164]

Also, Shep and Sadie! They're both humans in a queer relationship.

[@themechanic9974]

@@aliyah1164 wow way to bring up a different show

[@Dragonmongamer]

@@themechanic9974 Sadie and Shep’s relationship is established in Steven Universe Future. Same show

[@themechanic9974]

@@Dragonmongamer the sequel to a show which is not the same show is not the same show soz

[@TreeDwellingShrimp]

If Lily genuinely changed and wanted to fix the damage she's done, she could've unlisted the video. She hasn't because it's her shining grifting achievement and one of the things she's most known for (that's not completely depraved like her controversies). Unlisting it would make it so she doesn't lose the millions of views but nope. She wants to keep profitting on RS's name and work. There has been 4 years where she could've taken the video down, unlisted it, made a new one with a different take or even publicly apologized to RS for all the harassment and spread of misinformation she caused. She gave ammunition to a hate mob to use against a queer person and their diverse team with seemingly zero regrets for her own benefit. Waving her pitchfork the highest in a crowd of bigots isn't going to stop them from turning theirs on her once they're done with the original target. She'll never be seen as 'one of the good ones'. Going along with the far right to grift won't keep anyone safe.

[@clblowe]

Four years ago, I watched Lily’s video without ever watching a single episode of Steven Universe. I spent like 3-4 years thinking it was a terrible show and having no interest in watching it. That changed when my current girlfriend sat me down and had me watch it with her. I told her I heard really bad things about it and I wasn’t that interested in watching it, but she told me to trust her and just give it a shot. So, I did. This video is incredibly cathartic for me now because I actually have the show a shot and genuinely really loved it. Now, whenever I go back to Lily’s video, I almost feel shame for how easily influenced I was, and it makes me sad that I kept myself from experiencing a genuinely good show simply because of one person’s clearly misguided and heavily biased take.

[@aidomiya3401]

Happens to the best of us! The video goes so fast with its points that you don’t really have a good moment to process what’s being said. Most people just turn on videos in the background anyway without fully engaging in them, only tuning in to the buzzwords. The fact you were willing to change your perspective is cool, and shows you aren’t as easily influenced as you might’ve thought

[@WestGarbage6]

I feel you, back when I watched Lily's video, I was more or less a stupid kid, I'd watched Steven Universe at least three times at that point, but despite that, I took everything Lily said at face value, and soured my own view on Steven Universe, pretty much forcing my own opinions in the corner and letting her opinions take the spotlight over them. Then I watched Steven Universe again, still in the "But is it really that bad?" phase of thinking, and I started to imagine flaws, and 'notice' the flaws mentioned by Lily, but despite all that, it was STILL enjoyable to watch, so up until watching this video, I just kinda had mixed feelings about the show, I think at a certain point I almost started to beat myself up over still liking the show, even though I "knew" it was garbage. It didn't help that Lily effectively created an echo chamber, because she can't handle any semblance of (Well deserved) criticism, I usually check the comments to give myself a new perspective on what I'm watching, to make sure I don't just get brainwashed into sharing the youtubers views on everything, but seeing that everything was positive and supportive, I thought "Man, guess she was right." I'm glad I found this video, I don't know if my opinion on Steven Universe will be as positive as it was before watching that garbage video essay, but at least now I can like it again, and feel good about it, it's sad that a lot of people might just end up holding those views from her video though, with how badly it's been etched into the community around Steven Universe.

[@PDD555]

This happens. I was already part of the steven universe fandom when Lily's video got uploaded but I had a similar experience years prior when I started watching the show

[@tintedpalette653]

That’s what sucks about that video. Lily does a good job at sounding like a convincing person to those who lack the context of what she’s actually discussing. And to those who do have the context, her virtue signaling and holier-than-thou moral attitude towards what she criticizes makes people feel inclined to agree with her even if they didn’t think the same at the start. “If you don’t agree with X thing I say, then you are condoning Y which makes you morally bad”. That sort of framing is powerful and manipulative.

[@themanwithoutaplan9389]

I had the same thing happen to me, but my opinion on the show mellowed out on its own. I’m probably never going to watch Steven Universe, mostly because the show just isn’t for me. But I refuse to call shows good or bad unless I’ve actually watched them now, unless the criticism presented is backed up by actual evidence.

[@Donovan_Neptune]

It’s been so long since I watched Lily’s video that when I got to the part around the end where she, verbatim, calls Rebecca Sugar A DISEASE, my jaw literally dropped Also it’s so funny in just the most painful way that she’s like “I’d never let MY children watch this show and get the wrong ideas” because that’s what conservatives said about SU and any other queer media, thinking it’d make them gay or trans or whatever

[@gennybaratta2460]

Ugh the fact that she called a Jewish nb person a disease feels so gross and wrong especially in today’s political climate (not that it would be okay at any point but with recent raise in both antisemitism and transphobia it feels particularly gross you know)

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

If Lily gets hired as a critic, then calling someone a "disease" a way to criticize the piece of work is enough to get her fired. Not even Robert Ebert is THIS harsh.

[@maxleon61702]

Cue Michael Joseph Jackson's Who is It when we are a part of things like that.

[@robertterrell7057]

The diease part is true as fuck crazy thing to say to another human being....the second half is just "conservatives do x so it must be bad"

[@shaycrowley3262]

I think I blocked that from my memory cause that caught me off guard

[@reyzagray5277]

I'm baffled as to how Lily can harp on and on about all the bad things Rose did and still try to say that the show portrays her as a good person. Rose is not supposed to be a good person?? How in the hell did she miss (ignore) this? She is idolised by the characters in the show, especially earlier on, and then as more things she did come to light, these same characters have to contend with the fact that was she did was wildly fucked up. They spend a lot of time on this, actually. Wild

[@stygian4330]

"Steven Universe is Garbage and Here's Why" is a really good example of how poor media literacy completely skews a person's view of a topic

[@TheNightmareRider]

The part where Lily moans about Pearl being "only defined by her attraction to Rose" is missing the point SO hard it hurt. In the context of the story, Pearls are servant classes. They are on the lowest tier of the Gem Hierarchy, existing almost exclusively to serve the Diamonds. Pearl's character arc is about accepting her heartbreak over losing Rose, HER DIAMOND, and then growing to love herself independently. Also, the reason Steven wanted to talk to the Diamonds is because, a fact that Lily purposefully ignores, is that HE IS PINK DIAMOND. He's trying to use his authority and privilege to better Gem Kind! Sure, the show did stumble a bit on him swaying the Diamonds over to his POV, but it still makes sense *why* he does it when you PAY SOME FUCKING ATTENTION, MS ORCHARD!

[@blkmagi]

Let's also not forget that the "stumble" was a result of the creators fighting to have Ruby and Sapphire's wedding. They literally had to rush to the ending because of this. For this Lily person to be a part of the LGBT+ community and slander this show for a grift is actually disgusting.

[@bluewolf6323]

I really hated when Lily showed the Bismuth and Pearl scene of "Who do you belong to? Nobody" and just called Pearl a liar. Like, how do you fuck that up. Saying someone is a liar for growing out of something is so baffling. That's like saying, " Oh, I stopped drinking coffee and I feel better about it" and then someone saying "Liar, you know you still want coffee, it's part of you and you can't escape your past" like ma'am this is a McDonald's...

[@mallk238]

@@blkmagi Thank you! I swear half of these points they brought up in their video is completely ignoring the politic and social context of the time the show was made. Anything lgbtq related represented the hard won fights with the network to let this stuff be put on air at all! If it felt like there "wasn't enough" then that was on the networks! Steven universe portraying not only gay people, but gay people behaving like normal people living average lives (sci-fi alien shenanigans aside) was an impressive and refreshing look at relationships in general. The writers of the show weren't maliciously trying to hurt da gays by writing characters a certain way, they were just trying to write a tv show about a subject that deserved to be talked about with kids in a calm and honest manner...and also about gay rocks in space.

[@HuxtableK]

She didn't forget. She recognized that the Pearls are considered slaves. And the fact that a slave is in love with her master is fucking gross. And yeah, the privileged white boy is using his privileged status as the top of the food chain of diamonds to basically sweep war crimes under the rug.

[@BubbyBoy]

@@HuxtableK god, it's clear all you did is watch Lily's reviews on the show before coming here to defend her honor. That comment you made screams Lily. Learn to actually think for yourself.

[@irrisorie7]

lily is the quintessential example of a person who equates personal taste to quality of writing. tropes and themes she likes are good writing. anything that falls outside of her taste, no matter what it is, is bad writing. characters she likes that fall into tropes or themes she doesn't like are "shunted aside" or mistreated by the narrative, or whatever. it's a very tumblr teenager circa 2014 way to think. source: i was on tumblr in 2014.

[@iyxon]

💯 She literally just doesn't seem to process the world exists outside of her feelings towards things

[@user-eo5sn9yt1u]

That’s exactly what she is. Writers essentially have to make creations up to her standards

[@crestren5996]

@@user-eo5sn9yt1uShe made a twitter thread (which you can watch two writers dissect how bad it is on the channel 'We are not Alive') and its essentially good writing is good when its something she likes and if its not, its garbage and you should be in jail

[@NobodyC13]

@@crestren5996 I think I read somewhere that a fan artist got criticized by Lily Orchard (either Orchard commissioned them or simply stumbled upon their work), nevertheless, Lily Orchard actually told the artist to kill themself because she didn't like their art. Either it's because she's sincere or using it as an excuse along the lines of "Since I don't like it, I shouldn't have to pay." Lily Orchard is someone who thinks in extremes; either she's unaware of her behavior and refuses to take in criticsim (which is bad), or she is aware of her behavior and does what she wants while hiding behind her various identities as a shield from criticism (which is worse).

[@Sanguimaru]

There’s a type of thinking that young people who are finding their sense of identity are prone to. They tend to associate things they like with themselves. They get defensive when you criticize things as though it were a personal attack, and assume the things they like are good because they want to be right in their assessments about the world around them. Lily’s video essay feels a lot like this.

[@sweetasToffee]

59:51 I hate the romantization of abuse implied by Lily, like as if someone that suffered through abuse would be the sparkliest and happiest character. Abuse isn't pretty, it hurts, it kills, and it scars, and someone that has been abused is likely to act how Lapis did, and I know this because I related to her a lot watching the show, pushing away people that tried to help me, lashing out at those who had nothing to do with it, and I did bad things to cope with my suffering too. Abuse isn't fun, isn't so one sided, like "the abuser is bad, and the abused is a sweetheart", that's not how it works, and most oftentimes the abused will inherit some traits from the abuser, the goal is getting rid of them and healing, to become a better person and apologize to those you have hurt.

[@sstarbee]

Lily saying Rose was "erratically written" doesnt sit right with me, because she wasn't, she did grow and progress too, we just don't see it chronologically from beginning to end. The other characters all knew and remember Rose at the end of her life, after she has grown and changed. That's the Rose they talk about, mostly. The Rose in Lion's video is towards to end of her life, after she has developed. We then see various snippets going almost backwards (not always in direct reverse order, but still). She's not written erratically, we just learn her backstory and see how she got there, not watch it in real time.

[@cyruscrompton8221]

It's crazy cause it's like Oh wow this 20 year old is acting differently from when I last saw him when he was 5, hes so erratically written... How come Batman just didn't beat up the guy who shot his parents, hes so erratically written!

[@theforgetfulalchemist]

The misunderstanding people have of Ruby and Sapphire's breakup makes my blood boil. "Why do they break up because Rose lied?" Because Rose was the first person to say their fusion wasn't wrong, and if she was wrong about so much, they worry she was wrong about them too. "Ruby just comes back in the end anyway" Yes, and she had to choose that for herself for it to have meaning for her! I swear it feels like some people have never had an emotion or any kind of relationship (platonic or romantic) in their fucking lives lol

[@atrocious5230]

I dont understand this because Rose literally told Garnet "who cared what she (Rose)" thinks. She was the one who allowed Garnet to be herself not directly told her to never change. Her foundation was never Rose. I guess Garnet attatched herself to Rose's words because Im positive Rose didnt set the founration of their relationship as much as she just let them exiet.

[@mandarinsandclementines2997]

​@atrocious5230 Just because Rose said that her opinion on Garnet didn't matter, does not mean that Rose was not the first person to positively affirm Garnet, to call her fascinating, to not shun or attack her.

[@Burning_Soup]

as an abuse victim, yeah lapis did some bad things, people do bad things even when theyre not trying to. She was acting as she felt like she needed to, she needed to be safe first and foremost. Lily's bit about lapis really hit a nerve for me because abuse situations are never pretty or neat. theyre ugly, and messy, and complicated. theres no such thing as a "perfect victim" because abuse makes us do things we'd otherwise not do for our own survival.

[@2012petvet]

Not To Mention That Lapis Didn't Want *Anything* To Do With The Situation In The First Place. Lapis' First Thought Was To Escape. Malachite Only Became A Thing When Escape Was No Longer An Option.

[@wherefancytakesme]

Lily hating Lapis because "victims can't become abusers in reality" is pure projection, because her younger sister has come out about her siblings and herself being abused while also being abused by Lily and their brother.

[@imsadnotreally9950]

Everyone is an abuse victim these days, it’s gonna take a bit more than that to sway me.

[@2012petvet]

@@imsadnotreally9950 Sway You On What Exactly? That Abuse Isn't Pretty?

[@imsadnotreally9950]

@@2012petvet sway me to believe they are an abuse victim

[@gelopsys]

Gosh, I sure do hate when characters have flaws that are addressed and resolved throughout the series. Why can't every character in the show just win and have no conflict. I like my cartoon characters' personalities to be as 2D as the drawings themselves.

[@thebattle7000]

I kid you not that's how her fanfics are

[@partyinthecloudkingdom]

honestly i dont even think lapis has that many writing flaws. she's a very honest portrayal of the kind of disordered behavior and disordered interpersonal relationships that are born out of complex post traumatic stress disorder. that includes taking on abrasive, violent, argumentative, and angry traits as forms of defense and self isolation. she spent months relying on only her own anger to keep the one person she views as having helped her safe. of course shes going to be an abrasive asshole when she comes out of that. thats who she needed to be to do what she needed to do for steven

[@HidinginPrivate]

Most the flaws for me is how she kinda gets shafted in the later half of the story. Like she doesn't do much then suddenly she's back for a thing then she's gone again. Just Wish she was integrated a bit better

[@remyhavoc4463]

For me, she just became kind of boring But it didn't help that Peridot was my favourite 😂 And also the moment in the show where they were all crying because of Blue Diamond's powers or something and Lapid didn't cry because oooh she felt worse That was hands down the stupidest moment in the show for me 😂 I'm sorry but that's the moment where I stopped taking the shoe seriously. People point out the ending where Steven easily beat White Diamond in an argument but the Lapis moment was the worst one for me

[@idigamstudios7463]

@@HidinginPrivate I think she was meant to have a greater role in the series but how much we lost when CN decided not to renew the series is the worst thing about SU.

[@eow4317]

She’s my favorite character (sorry peridot but you’re number 2 for me)

[@jaikthesnake6285]

"Imagine writing a scene THIS sinister-looking..." You can really tell she only watches children's cartoons

[@HidinginPrivate]

I actually cut out so many other jokes there, I was dying at how over dramatic it was. It was hillarious

[@thevarietychannelofyoutube4769]

She needs to watch Homelanders scenes from The Boys

[@off-the-grounder568]

Her saying that legitimately made me remember the scene as darker than it was.

[@rebecca_rh]

Let her whatch Made in Abyss please

[@AnnthemofArt]

@@rebecca_rhshe’d have an aneurysm

[@shatteredprism]

I remember when I watched Lily's video about Steven Universe, it made me feel like a bad person for liking and watching a cartoon that was helping me cope eith unresolved/untreated/unmanaged mental illnesses and also being used as escapism while I was in a really bad household that I'm in therapy because of.

[@KingYou2002]

I feel you. I didn't feel like a bad person per se, but I did feel kinda alone for a while for loving Steven Universe all the way through.

[@dxitydevil]

FR, like im always hesitant to say steven universe is my favorite show. Lily Orchard really fucked up the SU community it sucks

[@resentfulshrimp8044]

That seems like a common sentiment and that's really sad.

[@shatteredprism]

​@resentfulshrimp8044 I agree. /g (also, sorry it took me two weeks to reply, I have reply notifications turned off. /g)

[@randompromises1038]

Cartoons to me as an adult now are STILL a very huge comfort. And if someone gives an extensive list for why Gravity Falls is Garbage and Here's Why, especially from someone as hypocritical and movie theatre-style projecting as Lily, it won't really take away what _I_ got out of the experience. The shows I like aren't perfect but they served the purpose of entertaining me and I got a good experience out of watching them, and that's what matters most.

[@diabreadstick]

Also the way Lily polices nonbinary rep when Rebecca Sugar is nonbinary is really fucking gross.

[@cidevant002]

The point about Lily misunderstanding they/them pronouns is so funny to me because she said some time ago that it took her two full years to get used using they/them pronouns for a singular person. And even then, she still misgenders trans people if they dare criticize her so...

[@strawberryqueen0382]

@@nevaehhamilton3493hey let’s not go around discrediting people’s trans identity or speculating on the validity of it. This might not’ve been your intention but the wording “claims” really makes it seem your don’t believe Lily about that. And sure Lily Orchard is a bad person who has lied but we still shouldn’t use language like that or assume she’s lying in her trans identity.

[@one-onessadhalf3393]

@nevaehhamilton3493 Uh, homie, it isn’t our place to assume if someone is “really trans” or not. Not all transphobia comes from outside of the house, and it’s important to acknowledge that.

[@nevaehhamilton3493]

@@one-onessadhalf3393 alright

[@bri6165]

@@strawberryqueen0382i don’t think they were implying they aren’t trans! I think they said that because they actively disrespect and disregard other transgender peoples identities and pronouns. I could be wrong but I just how i interpreted it 🥲

[@amirgarcia547]

@@bri6165Some trans people do have internalized transphobia, unfortunately, so I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the case for Lily.

[@matti.8465]

I feel like Lily has a general misunderstanding of how objectification in media works. Stevonnie is framed as beautiful in their debut episode, and gets objectified by Kevin, but the show itself never objectifies the character. The camera doesn't linger on parts of their body, it's just a slightly curvy teenager.

[@junacreates]

THATS WHAT IM SAYING BRO, if stevonnie had LITERALLY any other body type, that section of lily’s video would likely not exist at all. but since they’re a little bit curvy, like a *normal person,* they’re suddenly being sexualized? it makes no sense

[@rottenfiggy]

@@junacreates It really reads like Lily is attracted to Stevonnie due to a preference for curvy people and therefore she needs to overcorrect for this attraction by claiming the show is forcing her to do it

[@rebecca_rh]

@@rottenfiggy yeah, is Lily who sexualizes Stevonnie, not the Show.

[@TheNightmareRider]

That, and objectification is a very specific thing. Even the most basic understanding of male gaze and framing will tell you that it's more than just nudity (which, as pointed out in this video, there isn't much of at all, Stevonnie wise).

[@neon2870]

The Stevonnie episode perfectly encapsulates what going through puberty and not understanding why/how people are treating you differently, only that it's uncomfortable feels like. It's one of a few times the show departs from Steven's POV and goes to other characters so thats *maybe* where the confusion is?

[@himichan]

Lily insinuating that victims of abuse always turn out to be bad people was and will always be abhorrent to me

[@shatteredprism]

Something I just realized is that in the section about Lapis, Lily Orchard wants Lapis to be a "perfect victim" who doesn't defend herself/sees someone who is being abused defending themsekves as them being abusive (which if I remember correctly, is called "retalitory abuse" in some spaces and seeks to show the abused person as an abuser). As someone who's been abused and is in therapy to work through my own trauma and unlearn unhealthy behaviors from my trauma, it pisses me off.

[@KingYou2002]

This narrative Lily pushes also infantilizes abuse victims, saying that if they retaliate back in any way, then they're the "abusive ones". It also over simplifies abusive relationships as one guy good, other guy bad, which isn't really how abusive relationships work.

[@naeka9752]

As a non binary person, it irritates me that that's considered 'interesting' just by existing, rather than just a piece of a person. I can't put my finger on it, but it makes me uncomfortable. I really loved stevonnie as rep. :/ also the way she's talking about they/them is also super gross....

[@cidevant002]

It's the fetishization. Just another form of enbyphobia.

[@rebecca_rh]

Yeah. Lily sees Stevonnie as “sexualized” because she’s the pervert one. That speaks volumes about her more than anything else

[@lokalcrow1470]

Same, like being non binary defines the entirety of who they are. Like it's inherently more important than who they are as a person, than their personality, backstory, interests, and ambitions. It's blatant transphobia and enbyphobia. It's disgusting.

[@SketchUT]

I think being nonbinary (as one myself) is interesting. There are so many ways to express it and so many ways to identify and it’s a constantly-expanding world. I do not think nonbinary people are interesting at the baseline due to them just being nonbinary. The actual interest is *about* the individual experiences and definitions etc etc. To find the identity as a whole “cool” or whatever and ignore the aspects that actually make the identity varied (that being, the individuals and the experiences and all that) is just. not only missing the whole point but also exactly what other commenters were saying.

[@Hawkatana]

Same. I'm a cisgender man, and yet here I am casually being a better ally to enbies than this actual trans woman. That should not be the case.

[@fishlordusername891]

The fact that Lily consistently misinterprets Steven Universe as a plot show, even though its a charagter show, THE STYLE OF STORYTELLING SHE PREFERS, is ridiculous to me.

[@fishlordusername891]

The idea that a limited perspective is somehow inherently a bad thing is RIDICULOUS for a mystery.

[@fishlordusername891]

"it gives HINTS that lapis has PTSD" ITS CALLED SUBTLETY

[@steamedtoast64]

Not only this, but she also gets mad when a plot point that she takes personal interest in aren't focused on in every episode of the show. When, you know, it's a show with dozens of characters in a character focused mystery show. For example, she acts like ruby and sapphire barely get any screen time and therefore aren't good representation, when they get like 10 episodes majorly involving them outside of garnet, which is a pretty good amount of screen time for these characters, especially when they still get plenty of time as garnet, who is both of them combined, but she acts like they're completely separate.

[@enviisyk]

Lily couldn't have a consistent opinion or a shred of media literacy if she tried

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

​@@enviisyk Well, Lily is not even a good critic either considering she outright attacked the creator, Rebecca Sugar, for something that isn't even her fault. But this is Lily we are talking about.

[@jthecryptid]

I find it ironic that Lily advicates fir violence and criticizes Steven Universe's message of forgiveness while citing ATLA as her counterpoint, when one of ATLA's most memorable episodes ("The Southern Raiders") is all about forgiveness. Katara will not forgive her mother's murderer, but she choses not to kill him and let him live with his shame. She chose to forgive Zuko, a character who has also done terrible things (including selling out his uncle and trying to kill the Gaang) but is actively trying to make ammends and become a better person

[@callmeconvay7977]

Fucking how, lol? SU attempts to redeem literal space Nazis who don't regret their actions or attempt to make amends. "Oh, they're just sad!" isn't a good reason. In contrast, The Southern Raiders attempts to explain why the soldier who killed Katara's mom doesn't necessarily deserve death for his actions. It doesn't redeem or forgive him, and it doesn't offer a lame excuse. He was an awful person who did awful things in war, but he doesn't deserve death. Even Zuko, who is redeemed, shows guilty for his actions and struggles with his identity and goals for the majority of the show. There's a huge difference between attempting to redeem guiltless genocidal space Nazis because they're sad/family and attempting to redeem a guilt-wrecked victim of abuse just trying to discover and justify a purpose in life.

[@jthecryptid]

@callmeconvay7977 The Diamonds commit the rest of their existence to repairing the damage they've done. They stop colonizing planets, heal the Earth Gems they've corrupted, and repair every Gem they've shattered. Whether you think the emotional beats were handled well or not, devoting yourself to repairing the damage you've caused in the past is infinitely better than being killed or rotting in a cell. That's how you redeem yourself in real life, regardless if the world decides to trust you again or not. Restorative justice. Also, Steven does not forgive the Diamonds. He is still visibly terrified of them, White Diamond and his mom in particular. He has flashbacks of White pulling out his Gem, screams about how he hates the Diamonds and doesn't want to be anything like them, and projects intrusive thoughts wherein he tries to kill White/Pink Diamond.

[@cyruscrompton8221]

MAN I FORGOT ABOUT THAT THATS SO TRUE Aang is a super pacifist I can't believe she forgot that

[@cyruscrompton8221]

​@@callmeconvay7977they aren't forgiven tho they're forced to fix their mistakes

[@eeeertoo2597]

@@callmeconvay7977SU isnt real life, hope that helps

[@leilacat40]

Rewatching and commenting for the algorithm, but lily not understanding how other people can go through puberty differently and unloading that as a criticism of stevonnie is craaaaazy. First off, people go through parts of puberty at different rates. I grew body hair almost overnight. 2 days max. My younger brother's voice changed in like a week! I couldn't recognize his voice over the phone because it changed so fast! He also sprouted up from 4'11 to 5'9 in 2 months. Thats a whole different body without alot of time to get used to it. Sometimes you literally wake up in a different body or have something completely different about yourself over the span of less than a week. it can be that fast. Not everyone's puberty makes them look ugly either, sometimes its an instant upgrade. Lots of media focus on the awkward parts, but because SU focused on the parts that make someone attractive or wasnt full of acne and cracked voices and awkward dancing that its a bad representation??? Wild. As someone who is nonbinary both identity wise and physically presenting (high testosterone levels so i exhibit lots of the same crossing over traits as the character) stevonnie was a character that didn't really exist in any other media. To show that "pretty privilege" isnt always a privilege, and in fact hinders someone just as much or more than can help them is something that usually isnt even touched on in most kids shows. To show that people treat you different when you look older is something that is really relieving to see. knowing that its not just you whos being treated differently and its not your fault and that its okay to not really enjoy being objectified. To portray how it feels to be in public but feel alone because of feeling othered due to looking different and that even if you recieve this kind of attention for being attractive, the receiving end doesnt usually feel any different to being othered for any other reason. To show a character being fem presenting with facial and body hair and just rocking with it without shame??? Even when they shave, they keep the stubble and show that they are comfortable with that look. Stevonnie has alot of talking points to be made but from the portrayal of puberty perspective, it mirrored my experiences almost word for word so i find it really solid.