I Ranked Every WoW Patch Since Legion

[@deathkiidd]

End of BFA is some of my favorite memories of WoW, it was a ton of fun imo

[@Drakshl]

I started in 8.2 and Visions of Nzoth was SO much better than any other patch I've played, S is the only fair option. I was playing a lot but I was only heroic raiding (occasionally helping a guild in mythic) so the first bit of accessibility wasn't important to me. The corruption vendor was SO noice, playing Hpal and getting 80% wings uptime was just so much fun, building out corruption on my other guys (masterful for my mage ect), it was just SO much fun. Azerite armour was sick at this point, it added a lot of cool stuff to your character but because it was all on a vendor it was easy to get the pieces you needed. the only issue was how much corruption trivialised the difficulty especially in heroic

[@---rm8do]

I had a similar experience, but I pushed a little into mythic pugs (and as UHDK). Glad to see someone here shares a similarity

[@FireSignd]

I'm so happy every tierlist ranks 8.3 so high. It was an amazing patch, alt gearing issues with corruptions and essences aside. The raid was amazing, and the corruptions were the ultimate power fantasy.

[@lucaswindel584]

Post Corruption Vendor 8.3 was the most fun I ever had playing WoW

[@shawkr2]

man this brought back 8.3 nostalgia, such a banger of a patch it’s amazing they haven’t attempted anything like corruption again since

[@MALITH666]

I am fine if it was a end of Expansion gimmik. I love how corruption was breaking the game. For me that would be un-fun mid expansion. But at the end, its like a send off and just being silly.

[@KyhronLuna]

It really isn't. They really underestimated how strong corruptions would be and how much they ended up breaking the game and balance

[@billnyedoesminecraftjoseph8379]

@@KyhronLunathat was literally the fun part, why wouldnt we be jacked up gods when were fighting a fucking old god? As a pvper tho vers stack corruptions were so obnoxious

[@rickroll9705]

@@billnyedoesminecraftjoseph8379 corruption masically meant all ur gear were trinkets

[@zerothelightbringer8874]

@@KyhronLuna When it comes to pve, who cares. Every class had access to all the same stuff corruption wise. That was the fun of it. The game doesn't need to be micro managed & everything fine tuned & limited by blizzard. That is the issue currently (at least in M+) They are making dungeons harder & harder but only certain classes can really do them due to defensives & utility. If you go watch max's best & worst M+ dungeons videos. Alot of the "easier" & more fun dungeons were listed as top 10. Freehold, Underrot, Galakronds fall, Sanguine depths, & others. The reason FH & UR are in there is because they have mechanics that are punishing but there are multiple ways to handle them. Everything doesn't need stopped or interrupted, some you just dodge it. IE the breath from the worms in UR. In FH you had the fixate guys that you can slow, de-enrage, stun, root, etc. There should be multiple answers to these things.

[@HESOMADBRO]

This video made me realize the huge disconnect between what diehard fans think is fun and what newer players enjoy.

[@hasany.9095]

what do you mean? are you a newer player? and if yes, what do you think about the game?^^

[@Kemyo0]

​@@hasany.9095from the phrasing the guy is either a new player and or someone who simply disagrees with the video But I think on the contrary that he's the disconnected one or simply lacks objective vision / thinking. At least when looking at BFA and DF patches I agree with mots of what was said, and I wasn't there during SL.

[@sergeanttentacles1359]

And yet diehard players still play the game

[@CrowYaeger]

@@Kemyo0 So the guy is disconnected because he doesn't agree with your favorite streamer. Didn't even insult the game World of Warcraft fans proving they're still the worst people ever

[@BleakDay]

​@@CrowYaegeryou didn't play many games if you think wow players are the worst 😂

[@rep8778]

I feel like Legion, BFA and SL got really good at the end of each expansion with really bad starts. I remember hard quitting legion during launch.

[@cosmicwonderer6269]

Legion was really good throughout if you weren't in the top couple hundred mythic raiding. But for the others, yeah, which is the worst because it took a year and a half of shit to get there, and if you join at least patch the catchup grind is rough so not as good experience as those who played through. For example, last patch bfa with the Visions and corruption and essences was really cool and super fun, but for people joining then they had the artifact grind (islands), warfronts, the rares in the 2 revamped zones, mythic plus for good azerite gear, then you catch up to last patch and wont die fighting the nzoth zones so you grind that, now there's the essences which might involve things you don't like to do and you may have a sub optimal one at level 3 but need to go out of the way for others. That shit is huge garbo on top of corruptions and Az gear being full random. And most is required for raid for mythic plus or pvp because it's all power

[@Tallen931]

@@cosmicwonderer6269 Legion first patch was awful, grinding 2 hours every day to keep up on AP and having RNG Legendaries. Unable to offspec or play multiple chars. Legion also had forced raiding for tier to do m+. Titanforging/warforging being an awful mechanic that at least got capped some what in BFA. I agree with the guy you replied to really hard. All 3 follows the same pattern and Legion would have been seen a lot worse if it wasn`t released as the first of the 3 expansions. I quit legion before tomb and don`t have a lot of good things to say about that expansion (maybe later patches saved it but until the it was a rough experiance).

[@thatepicwizardguy]

Legion was fucking awful in a lot of ways for a long while. It had a longer good phase than shadowlands and bfa was almost never good

[@Tallen931]

@@thatepicwizardguy I would disagree with never, last 2 seasons of m+ in SL was good. And BFA had really good m+ dungeons and even raids. Systems just sucked at the start of every expansion and it never got fixed in BFA while end of SL and probably Legion was fine.

[@PendlayRoe]

Legion was a disaster at first for everyone above LFR content. Titanforging, artifact power, random legos made the game much worse. The only reason Legion is S tier is due to the fantastic amount and quality of content added, both story and PvE, and this is mostly because WoD was cut short.

[@darth_ow8024]

The thing with removing AP from WQs is not only about seasonal vs all day players. It's also about what people like doing with their time in the game. And the feeling of if I want to do X activity I am forced to do dialy, constant chores on Y activity, just to get the power I need to X activity because character power is tied to it. It's like Visions of N'zoth, I personally loved doing 5 mask runs, and then trying on alts to do them as early as poissble. When I you're forced to do them every week and can't fall behind on an alt, or can't ever catch an alt up, it ruins it. I loved Torghast, in 9.3 when I came back, and they removed rhe restrictions and gave it the little skill tree (which gave you Qo amd other power ups inside it, no more looting enemies for the in-run currency). I loved rhe Mage Tower, got my 1st appearance on Day 1 of release spent hours progging the encounter with consumables the whole thing, changing talents, figuring stuff out. If I was forced to grind it every week for player power, it would be ruined. Personally the activities I love doing in WoW are M+ dungeons and Raids with friends. And trying out different alts, and doing those activities with them. WQs are fun, for the first couple of weeks I engage with the expansion or patches open world content. Anything that becomes a demand on my game time and becomes a requirement for player power in order to spend it doing what I actually want to (M+ and Raids), becomes a drag and drains the fun out of the game eventually. No matter how good the activity.

[@ivanleonov4579]

Man I am so happy max rated 8.3 high. I thought it was dope and loved it as well. What I'll say is, even though the vendor was finicky, it kinda worked out. My solution was to play virtually every class (I had 4 bis toons with full sockets and bis corruptions by the end) and loads of other giga geared Alts, and with the rotation it felt fine because I was always getting something good for someone so it never really was a problem. However if you suddenly went hey I wanna play prot war and wanted versatiles, I can see how it'd feel like shit since you might have to wait a while

[@Gabrielor89]

Legion is the goat xpac. 7.0 does have some criticism of non-alt-friendly, and legendary luck, but it was simply incredible. The artifacts' initial leveling, the hidden effects / appearances. It was special stuff. Love the rest of the Legion patch rankings though. Argus/Tomb were also special.

[@jessrabbitxt]

+

[@thatepicwizardguy]

Uh... no. Legion was littered with problems and also systems that made wow awful lol it only seems awesome cuz so much of wow is fucking awful

[@martineskerud6932]

7.0 was not just alt-unfriendly. It was straight up main-unfriendly though. 54 traits was mandatory and locked you basically to one spec, on top of legionaries

[@someguy3508]

Legion was perfect. Also the early legendary system sucked only for tryhards. Personally I cleared heroic raids with pugs did some M+ and played the whole game for the story and the "casual" content. My first legendary on ele shaman came from pvp and it was the wrist for chain lightning. It wasn't BiS for anything but it was so fun in M+. The reason why Legion legendaries didn't feel bad, was that the classes were complete and the legendaries added a little spice - extra power

[@Brigadune]

True. Legion was peak WoW enjoyment. Specs felt like something you were rewarded for dedicating time into.

[@iantha999]

The end of BFA, having 5 gearsets of different corrupted gear (full haste set, full crit set, full dps set, full vers set, full meme set) Allowed me to do so much cool stuff in pve/pve/visions. That was peak WoW for me. playing class with that much stats felt great

[@voodoo1069]

End of bfa one of my favorite patches of all time. The corruption system was the firs time since beta I found gearing to be interesting. I do agree how you got it was horrible at the start and still kind of lame with the vendor but using and playing with corrupt was so much fun. The corrupted timeline solo stuff was pretty fun to.

[@Davedotdash]

Actually me too one of the first times since WOTLK I couldn’t put the game down

[@sabotage7773]

FIRST (and the best) go on Max, we need more content bro

[@Jake_Etc]

I think a lot of people forget that the first 2 or 3 times you ever ran torghast it was actually kind of awesome. It's just that the misery of the 200th time is all that sticks in your memory.

[@myopiniondoesntmatter7068]

Depends on your class spec. Shamans just ran as resto because it was magnitudes easier due to healing rain dmg. IIRC priests had a hard time all expansion so it was hell for them.

[@rupertboleyn3885]

@@myopiniondoesntmatter7068 Our Priest player loved it, especially in groups. They also had a talent for killing themselves with Shadow Word: Death, which was always good for a laugh. It was unfortunate that which class you were changed how much fun the anima powers were so much. Some classes had amazing stuff, some had stuff that was okay but boring, and some just had junk.

[@andreishalter9617]

I’m that person who likes Torghast even now. I did all the achievements, mounts, t-mogs. Sometimes it felt repetitive but in general it was such a good feeling to progress futher and stack passives everytime. In addition I had 6 alts(diff classes) so It was exciting to do discover how other classes play it Torghast. I just dont know, it was great experience thru the all expansion.

[@wCxrtoonz]

it was shit the first time too

[@disadadi8958]

I didn't rly enjoy it at all.

[@doovendeer]

12:32 trash can mysteriously opens. One can only be led to assume its by some ghostly entity. Stay safe, Max

[@James_Johnson79]

25:50, regarding World Quests. I was fine losing world quests, but I really hated losing things like the match game or fly in and kill just one guy and fly out to earn progress towards my box. Which is why Legion is still my favorite expansion among many other reasons. At least they've gotten back somewhat to fast and fun world quests to just enjoy yourself though.

[@Udderage]

This just sounds like you wanted the content to be over faster. Idk how "flying in and killing just one guy" is fun.

[@James_Johnson79]

I do not enjoy filling the bar and still don’t. If I can log in and make significant progress on a series of characters in roughly 15 minutes per character then just move on to other things I enjoy either in game or real life I’m a happy camper. Spending 10 minutes or longer to fill a bar compared to just flying in and killing one bounty mob is an unenjoyable and rather inefficient way to spend my time given where I’m at with my life. Those quests should absolutely still be available for those that want to do them, but I’ll go ahead and stick with the more speedy things.

[@DisappointedBuddha]

Gonna say right now, Visions of Nzoth wa S-tier. That was so much fun, heroic guilds attempted mythic, the corruptions allowed you to push M+, you had so many options to actually refit your characters in both ST and MT armour/weapons. and you got to play it safe or be a risky bitch... fun times all round The only downside is the cycle of corruptions that could be bought

[@kasper1241]

One thing that was a huge issue in the beginning of SL for casual high end players, was how overpowered PvP gear was. If you didn't do PvP you would fall significantly behind a potentially lose your raid spot.

[@rhywasabot]

I was playing casually in 8.3, and while it was so fun getting BACK into wow, I remember corruptions feeling like absolute ass. I always felt like I was so far behind that there was no point in trying

[@Jake_Etc]

Getting rid of borrowed power in dragonflight was definitely a big W, but borrowed power was added to the game to solve a very specific problem. If you add stuff every expansion and never take anything away, it eventually gets to be way too much. That's a problem that's going to crop back up eventually, and it will be interesting to see how they address it.

[@ChinnuWoW]

All gear is borrowed power

[@azkendarken4403]

burrowed power also narrowed the gap between specs and made imbalances less noticeable or less cared for. with no burrowed power your power is based on your spec and how your spec synergizes with other specs to add up even more power just from that synergy. and because blizz cant balance shit we got to a situation where only a select few specs that synergize the best get to push high endgame content, because they bring the highest "burrowed power", while the majority of the playerbase will have to reroll to those specs to feel powerful enough or they will be unwanted and weak. stuff like drums and buff scrolls were also removed/gutted by blizz for whatever reason. those are good burrowed powers to have that dont force a grind so why remove them

[@ChinnuWoW]

@@azkendarken4403 *borrowed

[@nervio2701]

Eternity's End (SL's end) has to be at least an A: 2 amazing m+ affixes; catalyst (late but still better than not having one); for the 1st time you could do multiple raids in a patch, altho in a schedule but still but better than not having it; dinars; all mega dungeons as a m+ rotation; only negative, for some people, is the raid was too hard

[@MatthewGalon]

The patch for BFA that introduced essences not mentioning the ridiculous hoops you had to jump through for some BiS is criminal. Stuff like blood of the fallen initial release being a ridiculous amount of pvp farming before being needed. That alone with the benthic gear rng should’ve knocked it down a tier.

[@alewis514]

yes i hated this. Best in slot essences for PvE were PvP ones and this was cringe as fuck. I grinded arena rating to 1'800 and a lot of battlegrounds to get these rank 3's but fuck me i really don't want to PvP in order to be better at raiding. Remember MOP and people malding over having to win 2 random battlegrounds? This is 1000 times worse lol.

Actually a good and reasonable list with well explained takes.

[@wowsew]

Dratnos really is goated

[@TheGrinder_27]

One thing to note about eternity’s end is that it brought back tier gear and it’s goated because that. So it was a solid low B

[@JaceMazama]

Another thing on 9.1. Dom shards made your crafted Legendaries in those slots invalid, and there was no way to recraft or refund your mats. I came back to the game and saw I needed to literally delete my legendary and farm Torghast for weeks just to recraft the same legendary I already had... and just bounced.

[@someguy3508]

As a non mythic raider the only issue I had with Legion launch was the artifact weapon grind for OS. Overall though it was an 'S'. My first legendary was the chain lighting wrists that I got from a BG. I still loved it

[@Scruffed]

Honestly the current patch has been the most fun I've had in WoW since 8.3, and I'm not playing augmentation (I main a feral druid, and have a disc/shadow priest as alt, which I've played as disc 80% of the time). Then again, I'm not aiming to time +25 keys (which I think I could, as feral, without needing a carry), nor am I no-lifing the game as much (nor am I feeling pressured to do so), which only adds to the enjoyment. Currently progressing Mythic Sarkareth.

[@Whatever-sy7hv]

the link in the description isnt working. any other way i can see his reaction to dratnos's list?

[@legendofmira4759]

New player to wow from the start of this expansion. Got super burnt out in ff14 and ever since moving over here I've had an absolute blast. Dragonflight raiding and m+ has been incredible

[@GodOfWar05100]

I think raiding it will only get better for you because the bosses of DF were so forgettable, I can remember more bosses from any raid since Legion than the 10.0 ones. Not even gonna talk about the final raid boss being a dracthyr in 10.1, like that was so lazy.

[@Catxukluth]

53:20 I wish they had done what they did with the Dawn of the Infinite dungeon for the new dragonflight dungeons that weren't in the rotation for the season. Just a set difficulty activity with decent loot to get a taste of the dungeon while it waits for its time in m+. Maybe a weekly quest to do a specific one that rewards normal raid loot, similar to the timewalking raid quests

[@Frawt]

...a weekly for DF dungeons exists, and it rewards Heroic raid loot. Also, all the OLD Dragonflight dungeons from s1 already have "a set difficulty with """""""decent""""""" loot". It's called Mythic 0. There are no other "new Dragonflight dungeons that weren't in the rotation for the season". Also, if you just want upgradable-to-441 gear from OLD DF dungeons (like in Dawn of the Infinite), then what'd be the point of the current M+ pool? The weekly from them is already just there to help shitters get gear they don't deserve from piss content.

[@Catxukluth]

@@Frawt dude I was talking about last season, and m0 is kinda shit. The 4 dungeons in the pool this season effectively didn’t exist last season, it would’ve been cool if there was a way to play them at a somewhat difficult level that didn’t completely fuck the loot pool, hence giving raid loot instead of dungeon loot

[@draiterr]

​@@FrawtJesus ur insufferable

[@Zacsafus]

QOTD: Vessel Of Balance - Lower the Attack and Defense of all pokemon on the field by 25% including this pokemon. Basically doubled up treasures abilities but effects the pokemon with the ability as well. Can see this being useful for attacks like psystrike. Perhaps make it so its a genuine state drop so it has interaction with other abilities more than the treasures of ruin do.

[@Drukalnn]

I'm here for the visually scuffed tier list meta

[@taom4itu]

Did you rank patches or raids :)

[@ethanmcclelland8672]

You’re definitely right that if you got your BIS legendary on your main as your first one it was EPIC.

[@chocowmallows]

Anyone know the name of Max's outro song? It's super chill and I'd like to listen to the full thing

[@oatfarls]

I would rank the beginning of Legion a letter grade higher simply because the artifact weapons, questlines, and class quests were utterly incredible.

[@myopiniondoesntmatter7068]

Not if you had alts. Have fun doing Suramar 20 times

[@oatfarls]

@@myopiniondoesntmatter7068 To be fair, that's the same with anything else. Having alts means doing repetitive content to some degree, even if catchup mechanics have improved since then.

[@myopiniondoesntmatter7068]

@@oatfarls Making it brutal to keep them up to date is what kills expansions though. SL was also horrible for it due to torghast, korthia requirements etc. Legion you NEEDED alts to feel good if you got a bad lego on your main. In mythic guilds you got benched over others purely on RNG so alts were a thing much earlier than most expansions. I know guilds bar the ~top 20 didn't NEED to bench people over it, but they did cause the RWF meta filters down without understanding.

[@killercloud5768]

The only thing I was confused about was how max finished explaining how bad domination shards were and how they replaced tier, just to completely to forget to address the fact that Eternity's End brought back tier sets for the first time since Legion, which is what makes eternity's end an A.

[@killercloud5768]

The other thing I'd say in regards to the modern day, Dragonflight. I would say 10.1 is the weaker of the two tiers on this list, and the reason is, from a raid standard and mythic+ standard, my opinion as a MYTHIC raider, is that the raids break about even on fights. Basically side by side: Kazzara was infinitely better than eranog Amalg chamber was good, zaquali was not really anything, so about even with terros/primal council. Forgotten experiments was one of the worst fights of all time, Rashok was one of the best, whereas Sennarth was good in my opinion, kurog was good, dathea sucked. Zskarn was terrible, magmorax was just kill him and move on as max said. Echo of Nelth WOULD have been a great fight without so much weakaura dependence, still better than broodkeeper imo. Sarkareth was challenging, but fun, However, I also found raszageth insanely fun, but I would say sark was the better fight. So that gives Aberrus 5/9 bosses being above average to good, while I'd say VoTI had 4/8 fights that were also above average to good. This means they break roughly even in the fun factor of the raiding experience, by mythic standards, in my opinion. The mythic+ seasons on the other hand, were a stark difference, which is to say, Season 1 of dragonflight even with thundering, was infinitely better dungeon pool wise than Season 2. S1 had some polarizing keys like Azure Vault for instance, but Algethar academy is also a top 5 dungeon of all time. Season 2 had a way weaker pool for half the games pop of DPS, which is melee DPS, and it made virtually anyone serious about keys either swap to or confirm change to dwarf because of stoneform. Neltharus even with the chains was not a fun dungeon, Brackenhide was probably the best of that set. With all of this being said: Launch of DF til 10.1 was A tier, and 10.1 through 10.2 was easily B tier if not lower, aug has no bearing on that because it's an aspect of the game that is suffering from recency bias, but it will exist long after DF ends, and therefore counting it being added isn't fair to ranking. Sidenote: 10.2 so far, is better than both patches in my opinion because Smolderon, Tindral, Nymue, and Fyrakk exist in amirdrassil, smolderon on mythic is actually insanely fun. The dungeon pool is significantly better, more fun to run, brought back Waycrest Manor which is one of the best dungeons of all time as well, Throne of the tides is good with the rework, really the only dungeon that isn't fun rn is Rise, but otherwise, excellent season thus far, S Tier atm.

[@CoversIncorporated]

I want them to bring back torghast but reskinned as caverns of time and only for fun But I want 10 mythic + in the pool, I know it’s a tall ask, but I think 2 more dungeons in the season would help elongate the season for me personally

[@valik7907]

Is there any chance we get something like a second channel for just uploading max reacts to videos in the future? i found this late and wanted to also watch the max reaction to dratnos tier list as well but twitch vods are only for the last 2 month so it got deleted:( Thanks for amazing content anyways, this was amazing.

[@Razl2508]

4:27 Ghost?

[@Loomx5]

Theres just no way that 8.0 isn't the worst patch in WoW history i'm sorry. The entirety of the rest of BFA was spent trying to undo changes made in that patch.

[@PendlayRoe]

Public persception matters a lot. Sanctum was were Blizzard not only showed their hubris but also outright contempt for the playerbase.

[@Loomx5]

@pendlayroe I don't buy it. No one wanted anything implemented in 8.0 All the player feedback was that everything they did was bad, and they did it anyway. 9.1 can be the straw that broke the camels back. Fine. But 8.0 was fucking ABYSMAL. I've never had to grind gear I couldn't fucking equip until I did another dumbass grind I didn't care about before or since. Christ your BIS could be an m0 item for weeks at launch over mythic raid gear because mythic azerite was unusable for weeks. Insanely dogshit patch. Never before or since has blizzard been as fucking awful as 8.0.

[@martonszentkiralyi2251]

8.3 and 9.2 were the most fun I’ve had in wow. Corruption gear was fun as hell, and the 9.2 experience was objectively the best as a disc priest main. Tier set and later df talent tree buffed penance to a point where you could outdps everyone, the other major contribution was of course ascended blast and nova. MACHINE GUN PENANCE. SL turned from a bad expansion to a fun one in 9.2

[@sarahparrish7206]

Still remember getting my BIS legion legendary from a blingtron the day that it got nerfed. Could not even begin to describe my sadness.

[@NotsofatTheGamer]

S3 and S4 of SL were the goats, i loved Tazavesh and I think it is the best dungeon design of any mega dungeon it’s actually insane

[@thatepicwizardguy]

Yup S4 shadowlands was actually really fun

[@PendlayRoe]

Zereth Mortis before flying was amazing, close to Timeless Isle imo.

[@kfactor99]

Great Ted Talk. 10/10 Would watch again.

[@Sedmonds21]

25:48 might want to get a priest out to your house man because that's some ghostly shit.

[@thesikniss1777]

End bfa was feast or famine though for casual at least . The difference between the BiS corruption and azerite talents was over 50k dps variance for some classes. They managed to salvage a horrible system the game play was fun for a good portion of people but it was a bandied system

[@Towkn]

Im sure people are going to absolutly hate this opinion here, but i agree with blizzard with the whole start of the shadowlands and not being able to swap covs. Max here and alot of other people always say "Lore" doesnt matter its a game. but the lore is what drives the game. Why did we go into CN? well to stop denathrius's plans and stuff. but i guess we could just take all the lore out of it and we can change the names of each boss and call Shriekwing "Big Bat Gargoyle" and Denathrius him self to "big bad guy of expansion 1" shadowlands we can just call "death plane". and even dragonflight now we can just changes the names of everything to generic dragon 1 and 2. every player can have thier names removed and just be player. so sorry story and why the game takes its path is the most important part. Now i will agree that they definintely waited way to long to make them swapable. it should have been the week after actually finishing the cov storyline but not before. there are alot of people that play the game just for the play part, sure you dont care about the story but if you dont then you cant complain about how they write the story. if you were to play any fully single player game what would you complain about if the gear you could get was good and the game play was fun but it had no sustinace and the story just didnt make sence? well you would get destiny 1, where the game was very fun but you had no idea what was going on. what was peoples biggest complaint about Destiny 1? the story wasnt there and made no sence. sothe story needs to be taken into account. you cant just say its a game let us do whatever. might as well just buy Zelda games log onto them and have access to every item right away. same with wow. log in and have all top end gear and just play to beat things. items should never degrade and have unlimited uses. the reasons people like things is because you gain the ability to gain things and not just have everything. how bored would you be if you started playing wow and at level 1 had level 70 mythic BiS gear and just walked around and everything died because you just were there. the bosses have mechanics and such because they have a "Story" which means they arnt just hit the boss and it dies. you need to work towards it.

[@apblolol]

i never got my bis corruptions. it was tragic. i wouldnt get new gear because i wasnt pumping hard enough for my guild to say it was worth it to give to me

[@KharnTheBtrayer]

One of the most memorable things i have ever witnessed in wow was at the start of 8.3 before they nerfed the falling stars corruption or whatever it was called me and 2 buddies qued for a 3v3 arena where we faced a solo prot pally who's team didnt even spawn in (I guess he got 2 other people together and asked them to just decline que) and he ran in on his mount with what must have been like 300 corruption of gear equipped and hit one damage global followed by him insta bubbling at which point all 3 of us got literally insta 1 shot by stars simultaneously lmao it was so insane we were all crying laughing looking at details after

[@Tyberes]

Another point about Torghast, is that you can kinda get a sense for how somebody's gonna feel about it based on their main. Mage? you're having a good time. you're blasting. you hit the end boss so hard that the game lags out. Priest? Sucks to suck.

[@KaX321]

I hated fatescribe more than kelthuzad. We actively avoided doing the fight at all in heroic reclears even. If you ever tried doing the runes with above 120-150ms (Basically living in the continent of America outside of the US) it became a buggy unpredictable mess.

[@primexoxoo]

I am here dont worry

[@AlexSaheli]

It's hilarious how often blizz team has no clue

[@hrolnir]

bless you fronk

[@Profato]

I though it was cool when we only had a few special mounts that worked in The Maw, having to actually "earn the right" to mount there.

[@morfigasoulslayer]

nighthold was on return to kharazan also

[@Etensei]

BFA launch patch is an F for me because the entire feeling of all of the power lost with that patch caused my guild to completely lose interest and killed it. RIP Wolfsong, one of the best guilds I was ever apart of.

[@DannyMartini]

Another thing they did at the start of BFA was reduce M+ dungeon drops

[@boblatte123]

Never did i think someone could have nostalgia glasses for any part of bfa...but here we are

[@riccardocarlini1746]

dragonflight prepatch, with both legendaries, covenants and new talents was peak

[@duckwings4927]

When I think about it objectively, yes dragonflight is a better expension and the patches are good. In terms of fun/ my own opinion: After shadowlands season 3 (and 4) , the state of mythic+ became worse every season. The dungeons don't feel that great, with season 2 being worse than season one (despite having the BFA dungeons). Thundering was a bad seasonal affix, but having no seasonal affix makes it less interesting. The upgrade systems doesn't feel nice either. If I want to help friends in lower level keys, I don't get valor to upgrade my gear, but i get shitty upgrade tokens that are not compatible with my gear. however, it is nice that you can upgrade raid gear with tokens, but overall I would rather have the valor system.

[@NLnaga]

4:28 any1 else notice his haunted trashcan?

[@16Insaniak16]

Has m+ balance ever been worse than right now? Maybe last patch of Shadowlands.

[@marrin98]

48:30 On EU the server I play on its 100% true, We had 2 guys that was the ring guy, I was the L boots guy, Had 3 other that was the weapon guys, So i feel like it was executed well, just got overflown by ppl like 1 week later cause it was not hard to get to that point with no to much effort

[@titoli1110]

If anyone wonders why 8.3 is in S tier, all I can say is that everyone was completely overpowered and over tuned. Crazy haste procs and cd reduction procs. It was fun.

[@billnyedoesminecraftjoseph8379]

Tfw when youre a brewmaster monk and ur optimal corruptions were versatility :/

[@joshbiddinger1744]

Professions were pretty cool but it was mainly Lariat, pots, and cauldron makers. Everything else was/is pretty trade chat easy.

[@ammox4683]

57:49 Yes 10.1 was better than 10.0 they added the crest system, removed the toxic seasonal affix and the raid was far better than Vault IMO barring Zskarn, 10.1.5 is probably one of the worst patches they've ever put out and that's Aug in its entirety, they completely torpedoed their immaculate record at balance and class tuning with that spec and removed the only tool people had in game to monitor their performance, before you might've been ok if you went and practiced on a dummy but now oh boy is that impossible, you have to go to raid do several pulls, get the log and analyze it, I cannot stress enough how BAD this feels.

[@andrewkulp7023]

What made Korthia do dislike was that was when they finally released flying for the expansion, then gave us a new zone where all the "new stuff" was and we were stuck on the ground.

[@OakenTome]

Korthia was also tiny and pretty ugly. Not being able to fly was whatever, the zone itself was just blegh imo.

[@rupertboleyn3885]

As for Maw, one of the big problems with the no-riding was that Druids and Shamans could still use their Travel Form/Ghost Wolf, so for them it was just an annoying place. For everyone else, it was an incredible pain, having to walk most places, not being able to outrun pats you accidentally picked up, and on and on. That wasn't just a QoL difference, but more like playing on a whole different difficulty level, not just moment to moment, but overall, because Druids and Shamans could grind so much more efficiently, and in WoW efficiency is everything for a lot of players.

[@PearseNation]

They just never did any of the promised balancing for SL. Gave up off the jump so covs and legos were a huge mess.

[@nussanois]

As the first retail patch I've ever played, 8.3 was fun. But I don't understand why 9.0 is so low on the list, I absolutely loved progging Mythic, Sire was such an amazing boss both mechanically and as a theme. Maybe because it was my first CE, but regardless.

[@GodOfWar05100]

Torghast timegating, covenant restrictions, gearing was shit, the Maw was such a shit zone. To me it started like an A and it just kept getting worse and worse with the passing of the time because it lasted too damn long.

[@nicholasokeefe3632]

The AoE thing works for healers, too, at least for me personally! When aoe damage is coming i fucking love it as a disc in M+ but when I have to ST heal i feel so bad 😢

[@michaelschaaf1155]

8.2 and 8.3 were my shit as a casual and who played wow as its main game. so much shit to do.

[@PendlayRoe]

BfA had some great world content, and the leveling is insane to this day. The story was flawed but the actually playing the War campaigns were fun, it really felt like a war, even as a PvE player.

[@Dormazain]

Chains of Domination felt like a near death experience for WoW. A horrible open world/daily zone and system followed a 9 month content hole so for the first time in 10 years we had real trouble getting 10 people back to raiding at least, many filled up weeks - topped of by a 15 minute fight that was... okay, not even very great 15 minutes.

[@TheNesh1988]

D4 just nuked 10.1.(5)... all of my M+ mates and the whole guild went offline after Diablo came out.

[@DeadSlugg]

@10:35 That's exactly how I feel about Holy Paladin. Don't get me wrong, the class is powerful thanks to the bonkers tuning, but why would they add Shield of the Righteous on the GCD? It's so weird. Like I get that they made it do more damage, but it's not like there isn't already a downside to pressing it (costing 3 holy power). Idk just feels weird

[@Skelliiie]

I guess if you powered through the beginning of the last two bfa patches they were fine. but i played them on release for a few weeks and quit because they started out so awful. and then later on when i tried playing late bfa, having to catch up on essences and corruptions was an awful experience from what i remember.

[@Robin92B]

wait are you watching if your raid is still going smooth while making the tierlist? :') that's top tier

[@marcinwitczak1669]

Massive W, since Legion Dragonflight is begining of expansion that is A tier. Yeah there are grievances in dragonflight but if blizz continues on this path...we are good.

[@tauzzi3749]

8.2 patch Rise of Azshara was good patch if you wasnt melee who needed that pvp essence Blood of the Enemy. BotE was so horrible to farm ...

[@BrynTheWizard]

Definitely think your most controversial opinion here is Rise of Azshara. I'd have done the same as Dratnos and dropped it straight in F tier - as someone who was in a guild in Legion that shot for getting KSM and narrowly getting Curve, that patch had us clearing the raid on Normal a grand total of twice and never wanting to try Heroic and barely any of us ran keys above +9. Was the beginning of the end for our guild of 13 years, we had one last drama bomb and died 3 months into 8.3. Overall the least interaction I've ever had with a WoW tier save when MoP drove off half our players for the first year. 8.3 was definitely GOAT tier though. Half a dozen of us moved servers, found a new guild and not only did Curve for the first time since Legion but killed some Mythic bosses for the first time ever AND we formed a static M+ group that pushed beyond +15 for our first time and is still together every Thursday and has been getting full clear +20s done since SL S4.

[@GodOfWar05100]

Nyalotha was piss easy, I full pugged it on Mythic and I think half of the raid was one shot or 2 shot tops. I was glad that I could finally do Mythic without progressing with a guild and die 200 times on every boss. Also having 100% crit almost all the time as a BM hunter was hilarious lmao

[@Nimbus3000]

Azhara being above a C is insane to me.

[@BathgateToushiru]

legion was the best men, I started before nighthold realease and it was soooo dope

[@DilzwieldKing]

Lore-wise, Visions of N'zoth was garbo tier... but gameplay wise, it was a definite S tier. You haven't truly lived until you've seen some dude get absolutely DELETED by a twilight devastation, hit so hard that they got sent back to Wrath And horrific visions was actually pretty good. It was challenging (in a strategic way) and you had to plan out your route in advance. If snore-ghast was based off of horrific visions, then I have no idea how they fucked it up so badly, it should have been a home run.

[@ToxicTurtleIsMad]

Wow has no lore anymore dont cry

[@emperorggs3248]

I loved BFA and hated Shadowlands so much that I quit completely from the first raid all the way to a few weeks ago. Missed the entirety of Dragonflight, which Im deeply regretting

[@ash-kk9pd]

P1 Sylv made me go boomie cuz seeing my dps sky rocket on that part made my day (wasn’t like my guild forced me too…)

[@Purylock]

DF professions are giga pog, I made dozens of millions with them, never again paying real money for WoW again lol.

[@utah123ify]

Two points you forgot about Chains of Domination, the seasonal affix sucked because you always skipped the frost guy and that meant you fought the last boss with a perma 50% slow. The other aspect that really sucked was that we waited 7 god damn months before it came out.

[@tacticalxxpanda]

watching this now and its making me regret my choices to drop expansions after the 2nd raid ever since legion lmfao. For some reason I always hop back on WoW a few weeks before a new xpac to pvp and dick around with the boys, play the new xpac for a few months, then quit either just before or shortly after the 2nd raid comes out. The only exception to this rule was when I raided mythic because nothing was going to stop me from getting CE Guldan. I swear this time in TWW im going to play every season haha

[@zerti86]

i still genuinely think 9.0 was an A-tier patch. pvp was great. m+ was great. castle nathria was fuggin amazing. nightfae warrior was good. i really think 9.0 release and the first few months were awesome. but i can see covenant swapping (not),the torghast disaster and the extremely long patch cycle bringig it down big time.

[@James_Johnson79]

Prideful was terrible because it REQUIRED you to always follow very specific routes. If you had one guy pull something by accident then it would just wreck your key because you either wouldn't have prideful for where you wanted it, or you'd get prideful right in the middle of a tough fight and it would wreck the group. Prideful was a pug killer through and through.

[@seimeianri]

encrypted is the best season affix ever and should have been a fixed affix since, all the cool things you could do with it, specially with the skips, soloing the market minigame as a rogue was the apex of the season for me, it felt so good I really like dragonflight, but the rotating m+ dungeons on killed it for me and I have not done it since the beginning of the expansion, the itemization is bad, some dungeons have awkward balancing, it's just awful

[@Vaed_]

I'm surprised Max likes the essence system in BFA so much. Grinding them was annoying, none of them (besides 1) were really impactful, and they weren't account bound for some wild reason. The only thing that wasn't just "whatever' about the system was Focusing Iris was a fucking awesome button to push, and maybe that's the only thing Max is thinking of when he thinks about the system? Idk.

[@OneOfTheLoveless]

I don't think designing a seasonal affix is a coinflip

[@Rylos277]

I did mythic EN and heroic for the rest of legion. I absolutely never got my bis lego but the idea of legos bringing the base patch of legion down to c tier is mad when compared to bfa & shadowlands opening patch existing. After wod, legion brought a ton of things to do and great story content imo. Kara is prob S. Tomb and argus were fine. I will still call you crazy for putting later bfa patches that high. I enjoyed parts but putting any patch from that xpac above kara is a no from me

[@20the20]

Love borrowed power or hate it, we will never reach as high in an expansion again as the end of the borrowed power expansions without it. Having double SL leggos, all your corruptions and azerite traits, bis essences, god damn that shit was so fucking fun once we got to that point in the expansion. If this is what wow is now, it'll be fun, but it reaches a ceiling of fun where the coolest thing we get is an elemental lariat or rare ring from raid. I think that's bad for the long term health of the game and will lead to people eventually getting bored and moving on forever.

[@SvDKILLSWITCH]

I think it's hard to argue with the opinion that 7.3 was really good, but I'm gonna be a bit controversial on 8.3 - if you were "into" it, it was S tier for sure. If you weren't though, 8.3 is a hard C tier and that's where I'd put it. I had a strong dislike for corruptions as it was all random slapstick shit, yeah you could stack crazy stat buffs or like 20 tiers of twilight devastation as a tank or whatever - if you got lucky. But to me it always felt like none of it was purposeful or well designed. Cool idea, happy for those that liked it, not a fan myself. I contrast the BFA combination of corruptions, essences and azerite armour to Legion's legendaries, artifacts and tier sets and I know hands down which one I liked more. And knowing that the end of a borrowed power expansion is when it is supposed to be at its best, I was very disappointed. Some cool ideas but none of them landed for me personally. Also the corruption vendor rotation thing was dogshit and everything else felt like chores - visions, world quests, Uldum/Pandaria, it all started giving me the same vibe I got doing Torghast and I hated that. I'd also put 8.2 in as a B tier. Essences were a huge improvement overall, but you forgot about the frankly ludicrous requirements for some of them. It forced people to play the game in ways they didn't want to play just to get whatever essences were BiS and rank it up. You could maybe argue to me that this is a C due to that, but I think an A is being a bit too kind. I also don't think either of those patches (8.2 or 8.3) were as good as 7.1 was, with Karazhan and The Nighthold. Yeah legendaries still sucked at that point but I'm also saying this as someone who only played one character, a paladin, and had fucking Uther's Guard as my only legendary. I could actually argue that 7.1 could be an A for Suramar as a whole (which I fucking loved) but legendary items were still a big problem at this point so I still think B is right for 7.1 on the whole. But I'd personally give it an A. 8.1 probably only sneaks into B tier because of the main raid. I'd also personally downgrade 7.2 - I thought the broken shore was kind of ass. Some might disagree but I enjoyed the Argus zones a lot more than the broken shore, even if they shared some similarities. I didn't raid this patch though and I know Tomb is well liked so probably just drop it to an A. Also, for me the reason why 9.1 was such a stinker (and also why I quit and therefore have no opinion on 9.2 and beyond) is becuase of the string of mid-tier patches in my book. BFA started out on the wrong foot with both the loss of all the borrowed power from Legion and some fundamental things like gameplay and (some) class design going down the toilet - the second tier 1 of azerite and essences and stuff were just lipstick on a pig. When you go from arguably two A or S tier patches in 7.2 and 7.3 and then back it up with an F for 8.0, a string of (my opinion) Bs and Cs throughout 8.1 to 8.3 and then hit us with 9.0 and the fucking Maw and Torghast, covenant stories that felt like they didn't really matter, plus the lock-in, conduit energy, just ugh. No thanks. 9.1 needed to be an A at least to keep me around and it missed the mark completely. So for me (my opinion who cares) S: 7.3 A: 7.1 (for me), 7.2 (but didn't raid) B: 7.1 (for most), 8.1, 8.2 C: 7.0, 9.0, 8.3 F: 8.0 swamp ass: 9.1 unrated: 9.2, 10.0, 10.1

[@willo1345]

I can't believe people want Blizzard to straight up remove augmentation from the game. Blizzard finally adds a proper support role to the game and the top 1% players lose their fucking minds because they think its ruining mythic+ by making comps unbalanced. Spoiler alert, mythic+ is always like that and it always gets worse as the expansion progresses. Besides, I'm sure that more support roles will be added and further balancing will eventually make it better. We all should be excited over this evolution of the game.