The Death of the Hollywood Movie Musical

[@xizar0rg]

"How Millennials are killing the roadshow."

[@luciesimpson6437]

And KZbin is 'killing' the music industry. But are the current problems really the result of the consumer medium? Massive industries collapsing under the weight of their inability to stay in touch with their real consumers seems to me like this should be a lesson learned by the studios as one of the necessity of change, rather than one that gets repeatedly turned back on consumers as blackmail. If Stockholm Syndrome is real, sorry for being a bit intensitive - but this is Stockholm Syndrome. Rewarding the big industry holding all the power because it didn't act like and churn out total garbage for once, refusing to accept even the possibility of an alternative economy that would stop the consumer-studio relationship from being so wildly biased, a relationship based on financial abuse (overpricing, mainly, but also the economic fallout of supporting and bailing these suckers out when they overextend and and loose the approximate GDP of a LEDC) which blames and victimises the consumer, not the corporate giant, and the long-standing idea that maybe if we (the consumer) were less demanding, if we supported them more, if we were more sympathetic to the suffering of the overworked, overstressed execs that just had a long day and don't want to be nagged, then maybe the industry will change... Actually, I get the feeling it isn't the consumer relationship that's the genuinely abusive one in Hollywood. It's the one with it's artists. I was being facetious before, but the studios do actually need to treat their artists better. And to the actual point, the change or die scenario should be on the shoulders of the studio. Not the audience, and not the artists. We 'millenials' did not kill the roadshow. The roadshow got its identity stolen, then it got mugged, then murdered, and finally laid at the feet of the millennials, who got blamed, billed and who are the primary sufferers of it's loss because they are expected to mourn it's dignity rather than (rightly) rob its corpse and come up with something new.

[@TheAnomaly00]

@@luciesimpson6437 Dude...it's a fucking joke. Like holy shit

[@LukeSparrow221]

@@TheAnomaly00 Obviously not a dude. It's not that tough to read a name.

[@AlohaDucky]

xizar I’m laughing so hard right now. :D >___< :)

[@spatalottakittens]

@Kaveighleen Jacaster I'm glad to know I'm not the only person who calls my female friends "dude", or some nickname along those lines.

[@casual-owl]

So, in fifty years, people will be making essays on some yet unknown piece of technology about the downfall of Superhero Movies.

[@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick]

Grey Jedi At least you didn’t say the phrase “go the way of the Western”. I hate it when people say that.

[@Konoronn]

Hopefully far earlier than that

[@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick]

Konoron What? You don’t like superheroes?

[@randombrokeperson]

Can't wait.

[@TooCooFoYou]

@@Konoronn Superhero films have lasted longer than Westerns, or at least American Westerns.

[@geminaljane]

Movies killed the plays, television killed the movies, and the internet killed the television. oh and video killed the radio star

[@timy9197]

Best. Comment. EVAR!

[@mountbuckekreative4044]

@Softy ...or the 'internet radio'

[@wolfdude7126]

wrong, big business, capitalism evolution killed quality. Its all about animation, violence, sci-fi ultra adrenaline ADHD satisfaction

[@jaimeeleebaggley]

I like you

Yeah... in my mind and in my heart...

[@HaganeNoGijutsushi]

Lindsay Ellis, 2018: The Hollywood Movie musical is dead. Cats, 2019: *viciously beats its rotting corpse with a stick*

[@Foreststrike]

With a stick, huh? It's more like with a machete.

[@WanderingWriter]

@@Foreststrike and more like a flame machete

[@phastinemoon]

So... Lindsay is the opposite of Toddstradomus?

[@UTU49]

I have to watch Cats eventually. Whether I love it or hate it... or end up wanting to kill myself... I just have to satisfy my curiousity.

[@annejeppesen160]

@@UTU49 you do know who got killed by curiosity, right?

[@geniehossain3738]

“It’s a streaming world. I don’t like going outside.” This aged like fine wine.

[@DementedGodsend]

I came here for this comment. It's weird to see things from the before time....

[@Horatio787]

2020, "Oh you like STREAMING DO YOU? HOW ABOUT MORE STREAMING THAN YOUR WILDEST DREAMS!"

[@dzonbrodi514]

Yeah it's a case of be careful what you wish for, isn't it

[@locatedonearth8695]

@@Horatio787 S T R E A M YOUR D R E A M S

[@ThatsGoodToast1]

And is still aging in September of 2021...

[@CreepsMcPasta]

Okay but if big budget musicals were to return can we please have a standard of hiring actors on their singing abilities, not their star power. Case and point- the abysmal performance of Russel Crowe in Les Mis

[@mathieuleader8601]

fancy seeing you here

[@MsRedNebulaPlays]

After reading the reviews, Crowe did better than I thought he was going to. Not good, mind you, but my expectations were low enough to almost accept him as Javert.

[@arellajardin2323]

I remember the Nostalgia Critic doing a video about whether or not it’s okay to dub over an actor with a singer’s voice. It was a pretty well thought out critique.

[@GeorgeThoughts]

Pierce Brosnan in Mama Mia can't sing either.. in fact none of the male cast can..

[@TwelvetreeZ]

@@danielskaluba5520 Gosling wasn't Crowe levels of terrible though, his singing was more 'meh' than 'kill it, kill it with fire'

[@LostCosmonauts]

I think the problem with Doctor Doolittle and in fact all movies is that "the giraffe stepped on his own cock" wasn't part of the marketing material, nobody says that line in the movie, and nobody sings about said incident. Who knows where movie musicals would be if it had been.

[@HurricaneDDragon]

Erick Wright 🎶 So watch your step as you waaaaalk/ You don’t wanna step on your own your own coooooock! 🎶

[@dragonkamehameha]

What's an astronaut doing here talking about movies? Get back to making Dota! I want my Oracle guide NOW

[@dragonkamehameha]

Jk of course, love ya Kiwi vids

[@twinkiesmaster69]

Imagine the characters constantly trying to sing the verse while trying not to say cock, and useing weird words just for the last word of the song to be "COCK"

[@MrHodoAstartes]

@@twinkiesmaster69 In a world where Meet The Feebles brought Sodomy as a song, I feel that is a bit tame.

[@wstine79]

Them kids and their need to binge watch Bonanza on the 17 inch Westinghouse television set that's at a modest price. Can't appreciate musical roadshows.

[@PanAndScanBuddy]

Whoa, put your gun away Annie Oakley

[@Dorian_sapiens]

It's the Decline of Western Civilization.

[@Ce1es]

Them kids, being shitty since 10000 BC (probably)

[@Voldenmist]

Damn Gen X'ers ruined the Roadshow. What will they ruin next!?

[@vogonford]

When people complain about children, I like to bring up Aristophanes' The Clouds, which starts off with a dad complaining about his son being a lazy bum who wants to do nothing but gamble on horses and "farts the night away". It also ends with them burning down Socrates' school, so there's that. And some blame Aristophanes for being responsible for Athens wanting the death penalty for Socrates, so there's that too.

[@curiousKuro16]

Its amazing to me how the lesson is never 'Make good movies and people will go see them' but 'Ah! This gimmick will work forever!'

[@TheUncomplicator]

Good is subjective

[@DalekTheSupreme]

@@TheUncomplicator That's a good point. The lesson should be "Don't make movies that are chasing a trend that will die, make movies that your filmmakers want to make." I think that you can tell when one movie was made with love and was something the filmmakers cared about compared to something that was just made to make a quick buck (my favorite example is Travis Knight's Bumblebee VS Michael Bay's Transformers quintilogy).

[@silentlamb21]

Lots of great movies lose money and lots of terrible movies make a lot of money so usually you only know after the movie had its run if it was a success or not.

[@asrieldreemurr1988]

Bumblebee-127 I’m guessing Michael bay was the quick buck

[@SkylerLinux]

@@asrieldreemurr1988 Is the quick buck, he's still making the same movie.

[@verdragon5591]

Funny how Hello Dolly was basically the bringer of the apocalypse for movie musicals of the time, and then it shows up in the post apocalyptic wastes of Wall-E, which are full of garbage produced by mankind. You can read a lot of jokes into that

[@steamboatwill3.367]

and it was the first film released on VHS.

[@jessicazimmer8910]

Not going to lie, my deep love of Wall-E is what made me want to watch Hello Dolly.

[@ericspearman2998]

I still haven’t watched Hello Dolly all the way through, but damn did Wall-E get that song stuck in my head! I adore Wall-E by the by.

[@eliasmg9144]

Ngl the first time I realized hello dolly was a real musical and not shot for the movie exclusively I got an existential dread

[@SchaffrillasProductions]

Great analysis as always, but I had also hoped you'd touch on the revival of the movie musical that's been going on throughout the 2010s. Between La La Land, Greatest Showman, Into the Woods, and Les Mis, musicals have seen a fair amount of commercial success this decade, even if they're not the big tentpoles that studios focus their efforts on anymore.

[@hannahhinners4456]

Lol I was hoping she would mention the Music Man as well...It almost sounds like a good topic for the next video...?

[@Mossdeep1995]

To me though, they aren't the same style of musical. All of those have these specific feels of a modern movie with music in them. If Wes Anderson did the cinematography for a modern musical maybe. The closest to that same style was in lala land in the parking lot, which was the best scene in the entire awful movie.

[@canalsincontenido]

Does that really count? Like, you could also bring up really good and succesful 70's musicals. Stuff like Jesuschrist Superstar, Hair, The Wiz, or even Grease. But there's a difference between a genre being alive and it being a trend, much more a dominant one.

[@ZeroFPV]

Sweeney Todd

[@KaijaSchmauss]

I was too. It seems to be a forming trend, given that it's seeped into the indie circuit to some extent (ie: The Last 5 Years movie) and it definitely isn't slowing down considering A Star Is Born is being released soon, and both In The Heights and Wicked have movie adaptations in production. They might not be tentpoles, but they're definitely popular.

[@westbromdude]

Wow, that Dr. Dolittle sounds like a nightmare. I'm sure no studio will ever attempt to make another big-budget Dolittle film ever again!

[@julian2grande]

westbromdude *looks at robert downey junior*

[@AngryPengu]

*Right?* *_RIIIIGHT?_*

[@UTU49]

westbromdude. FUNNEE!!

[@nullunit]

*Looks @buterabassett looking at RDJ, rolls a single tear and then turns to look at Eddie Murphy as he fades into the mist.

[@waywardmind]

[chef's kiss]

[@aidanchilders9043]

I can't believe you introduced _The Sound of Music_ as "the big guns" without using that gif where Julie Andrews opens fire with twin Uzis.

[@SuperWolsey]

I see what you did there

[@minastone155]

@@hailghidorah2536 as Lindsay says in her podcast, the last half of “the sound of music” is an action movie

[@oaktadopbok665]

Lindsay, you overlooked one giant marketing elephant in the room: The soundtrack album. My mom played the shit out of my fair lady, the sound of music and west side story and we knew all the songs by heart before we even saw the movie. This was the era when people started to get the ability to listen to high fidelity stereo at home.

[@MelanieNLee]

My mom bought plenty of Broadway and movie soundtrack albums, though she also liked jazz, Spanish music, many other kinds. I love musicals! I'm glad this video mentioned Fiddler on the Roof and Cabaret, but where was Oliver!, which won Best Picture? What does she think of The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, The Lion King, or Aladdin?

[@robertstuart480]

Back when they made original music and songs for films. Then it became the norm to stick pre-existing songs in instead.

[@kerrychristensen7204]

👍

[@benjaminwilliams8030]

So basically, Julie Andrews kept musicals alive in the 1960’s (Edit: holy sh*t, 1.4k likes?!? Thanks!!)

[@lhfirex]

All the more reason to hate her.

[@BetterWithBob]

haha she had two bombs of her own - Star and Darling Lili.

[@AhavaMath]

I love Julie Andrews! Sound of Music is one of my favorite musicals, right after Fiddler on the Roof and West Side Story

[@harpermackenzie1620]

Todd Crabtree how could you ever hate Julie Andrews?

[@increible0incredula]

Obviously!

[@thylionheart]

Lindsay: "The first canary in this coal mine actually came from the Disney Company with The Happiest Millionaire..." Me: "Huh. Never heard of it." Lindsay: "...that bombed so spectacularly you've never heard of it."

[@maximk9964]

I had exactly the same reaction, I guess that movie was blown away by history like a turd in the wind

[@DalekTheSupreme]

Same. I just assumed it was something everyone else knew about because I literally don't know anything about human culture.

[@SkipperJane]

I only know of it tangentially because some of the props are in Disneyland and they use the music on Main Street.

[@InnuendoStudios]

that movie was big in my family, I still randomly hum "don't dilly dally and don't shilly shally and let's have a drink on it now" to myself at times

[@unfabgirl]

I actually got to watch it a few months ago. It isn't bad (not particularly great, but not bad.) Fun fact, though, it wasn't originally a musical. It was a play adapted from the real life family and Disney decided to make it a musical.

[@susanhillwig5784]

"That f*cking Dr. Dolittle killed off merchandising tie-ins." Well, that certainly explains why 20th Century Fox thought the merch rights for Star Wars were worthless and let George Lucas keep them. I imagine that wouldn't have happened if Dolittle toys had been a hot seller.

[@arturofernandez4058]

That couls easily be the single worst business decision ever made

[@richardranke7878]

I do remember we got a talking Dr.Dolittle puppet for Christmas in 1968.:-)

[@Donnerbalken28]

@@arturofernandez4058 That and the Alaska purchase by the US in 1867, the cheapest land acquisiton in history at roughly 7,30$ per square kilometer. (Adjusted for inflation, at the time it was for 2 cents per square kilometer)

[@PangolinMontanari]

@@arturofernandez4058 or the owner of Atari refusing to give $1000 in business startup money to some pot smoking hippie by the name of Steve Jobs...

[@Joe-xo4yg]

That giraffe might have been a hard sell 🙃

[@PhilosophyTube]

AND I'M JAVERT! I wore out my VHS of Doctor Dolittle watching it so much - "After Today" is an amazing audition song.

[@Poever]

Philosophy Tube I wish that this was the day after today

[@noahh688]

Why'd you have to upload at the exact same time and make me chose?

[@squamish4244]

I really liked it as a little kid.

[@Absolutecoaster]

Out of all the musicals my sister forced me to watch, Dr. Doolittle was probably my favorite.

[@thevampirefrog06]

My favorite Doctor Dolittle fact is that the actor who sang that also composed "Goldfinger." *GOOOOOLDFINGAH!* **

[@VirtualBoy500]

Christopher Plummer: Replacing Problematic Movie Stars for Over 50 Years

[@etanaedelman9011]

She really missed the opportunity for a joke there.

[@1987MartinT]

Yeah, he's made a career out of being one of the most reliable people in the industry. Of course the filmmakers could save themselves a lot of trouble by starting out hiring him.

[@benjaminwilliams8030]

Plus he is a great actor

[@gordonscott6180]

Well, when you're having issues with a giant piece of shit, it only makes sense to call in a Plummer.

[@urockit2011]

Gordon Scott you, sir, win the internet game today

[@dragonarmy4208]

I love the idea of a studio caring about the historical accuracy of a movie about King Arthur. And then almost bankrupting themselves pursuing that idea.

[@kohinarec6580]

And the film seeming not to be hisstorically accurate at all. Arthur's legend originated in the 5-6th century chaos and reemeergence of independent, warring kingdoms in Britain after Romans had left and the costumes and sets are nothing of the sort.

[@sokar_rostau]

I've only seen one or two "historically accurate" King Arthurs, with almost all the others making the same damned mistake: King Arthur wearing full plate mail. What makes this particularly bad is that it's not just 'true' in the sense that the 'real' Arthur lived at least 500 years before most depictions of him, it was true even during THAT time with full plate still being at least 200 years away. This is like depicting Richard the Lionhearted with an M60 in each hand, rather than crossbows, as he stormed the beaches; or a movie about William the Conqueror defeating The Spanish Armada with F-18s.

[@1996koke]

@@sokar_rostau honestly now I want to see a movie with Richard the lionheart using a M-60

[@actionjackson3522]

@@sokar_rostau Depictions of Arthur were based on 12th-19th century illustrations and retellings of his legend. It's an anachronism as common and as old as ancient Greeks wearing togas.

[@godspeedhero3671]

@@sokar_rostau You seem to be optimistic about how twisted the future will depict our time period. I suspect teenagers will be shown talking on smartphones hooked into record player backpacks.

[@mylifeafterbreakfast]

Christopher Plummer, replacing problematic white men in movies from 1967 to 2017!! 470 likes!! Thanks guys!!! Please check out my channel. I'm posting again this week.

[@neilprice513]

Well if you have a niche you have to stick with it I suppose ;op

[@maripan1336]

mylifeafterbreakfast I thought I was the only one thinking that!

[@taylormanes8113]

honestly what would we do without him

[@cinebst]

oh my god that's amazing

[@MrEwanRoy]

Thank you, that was my exact thought! When Lindsay said that, I did a double-take like "wait is she for real, or is this a meta-reference?"

[@thrallgames]

It's my head canon that you started with "Like turds in the wind" and worked backwards to make the script from there.

[@isabelr3467]

This is going to be the next "I ate the whole plate" isn't it?

[@lemonvick]

Don't forget "See how I glitter"

[@canalsincontenido]

I really love how they do good movies and assume it's a trend, then do bad movies and assume the trend has passed. They just have to blame abstract things even when they don't make sense.

[@d_dave7200]

This 100%. There's nothing wrong with a movie musical. I would love to go to a roadshow like that for one of those amazing, classic, award winning movies. Yes, there are trends, and you can make money following those trends. But another way to make money is... just make excellent quality films. They make another movie musical in the 1950s style that's actually good, and it still sells like crazy even today.

[@AhsimNreiziev]

+[Es lo que hay] This is very true. Also true in Video Games and a lot of other things, actually. Although as for the specific example this video provides.... it has to be said, I *will* fight you, or anyone else for that matter, that claims that _Hello Dolly_ is a bad movie. It's one of my favourite movies of all time!

[@cjc363636]

I suspect they're numbers/money people and not really creative. So they have to justify their positions with 'research' and stats while not being able to really tell a good movie from a bad. one. So they market movies in trends long dead and are surprised when it crashes down.

[@canalsincontenido]

It *feels* safer if you have a justification, even if it makes no sense. Most people do it with everyday stuff, but with hindsight it sounds as logical as doing stuff three times so you don't die. Like, a decade later came Grease, Jesuschrist Superstar, Tommy and Hair. And that was the "hippie musical boom", unrelated to all the musicals that bombed around them.

[@FavouriteScaryMovie]

This is a good point. If studios were less trend obsessed, we might be able to have a wider cross section of films in the theatres at any given time. But as it is, it seems that studios are interested in funneling most of their effort and resources into whatever's big at the time and not much else (i.e.: musicals, superhero movies), until it's run into the ground and they have to move on to the next thing.

[@reesesbeanses]

WALL-E’s favorite movie ruined the 1960s musical trend... his favorite thing is trash. What an iconic little dude.

[@sirunklydunk8861]

Please tell me "Like a turd in the wind" Is the new "See how i glitter?"

[@bul13ts]

Combine them: "See how I glitter like a turd in the wind!"

[@smjaiteh]

Poirot's Mustache I’M LOSIN’ TO A TURD! ...in the wind...

[@camerono.3183]

On a scale of "like a turd in the wind" and "see how i glitter?" how are you feeling today? I, personally, am feeling kinda "Because it was real..."

[@GracMahbry]

I ate the whole plate

[@carnes5468]

I'm losing to a BIRD!!!

[@Theninja114]

"Guys, should we make tickets cheaper?" "Nah, just make premium movies and charge more" "But half the seats are empty in regula-" "MORE EXPENSIVE TICKETS"

[@MattMcIrvin]

"Make it high enough and we only have to sell one!"

[@rotciv1486]

it's interesting because that ploy actually works in some other stuff. there is the case of Jack Daniel's. Pretty good whisky at a modest price that wasn't selling because people that drink whisky don't drink "cheap" whisky. what did they do? rise up the prices for no particular reason and boom, rocketed.

[@seventhsheaven]

I saw crimes of grindelwald on my cinema’s IMAX screen. Admittedly it was during the afternoon on a weekday, but counting me and my brother, there were only FOUR people in the theatre. Naturally for us this was great, having a whole IMAX practically to ourselves, but the cinema must be tearing its own hair out.

[@MattMcIrvin]

@@rotciv1486 Those are called "Veblen goods": the demand goes up with the price because the more expensive product becomes a status symbol. I suppose it's hard to figure out in advance what has the potential for that kind of behavior.

[@RamblingSailors]

@@rotciv1486 Yeah, that pissed me off, I had just discovered them, and they were my goto. :(

[@RetepAdam]

I genuinely guffawed at “I want to work with an actor - a real actor!” said over the clip of him talking to a seal.

[@wjzav1971]

Its funny to me that whenever a movie under-performs nowadays, the big studios always whine about mean critics, the Internet Culture ruining the industry or the audience not being ready yet to comprehend the genius of the movie. Not once do they consider that their movie might just suck.

[@ЛевАллен]

Firstly, the film is always a waste of time, money and effort, but it’s hard for us to admit that we tried in vain. Secondly, failures often turn into iconic paintings - such as Pandora's Box with Louise Brooks.

[@oldfrend]

and sometimes they're right. roger ebert to his dying day could never admit that blade runner was a great film; nowadays universally accepted as a work of genius and my personal choice of greatest scifi film ever made. he wasn't alone; the general consensus was that it was slow and boring and they completely missed the forest for the trees.

[@1996koke]

@@oldfrend yeah but is usually more the exception.than the rule

[@wjzav1971]

@@oldfrend To be fair though, Blade Runner is an incredibly slow movie. It has some deep themes and can be quite enjoyable if you know what you are gonna get yourself into. But thrown into it cold, mainstream audiences will be left bored.

[@oldfrend]

@@wjzav1971 this whole thread is about critics. They should be more perceptive as a group

[@emilybarnaby2838]

This was really interesting. It's kind of sad how little pop culture history is preserved over time. I've never heard of roadshows before now, and they were a major part of the history of lots of the films I like.

[@timothymclean]

Pop culture isn't considered worth remembering, until 99% of it has been forgotten and the last 1% hyped up to the point where nobody can question its flaws and be taken seriously. (Like, when was the last time you heard someone critique _Romeo and Juliet_ or _Crime and Punishment?)_

[@rainbowcitytokyobay]

Fun Fact: The release date for a movie here in Japan is referred to as a Roadshow. Like, for example, Ant-man and Wasp just came out today, August 31st....so, on promo posters it would say "4.31 Roadshow". I have, for YEARS, wondered why the fuck this term was used and if it was an actual English term or one of those Japanese words that used English...so thanks Lindsay, today I learned a thing!

[@chooseymomschoose]

Explains the name of Village Roadshow Pictures...

[@emilybarnaby2838]

I think "lost" is overstating things a bit, considering that some of this has happened within living memory. A better way of saying it is that the context in which media is created is often forgotten long before the media itself is. People remember Hello, Dolly! but not the fact that it was created to make money in a specific type of presentation. People remember A Tale of Two Cities, but not the fact that it was originally published as serial fiction. The media itself is remembered by the general public, but it takes a bit of extra research for a person to understand how that media was actually presented to its audience at the time of its creation.

[@Avrysatos]

Emily Barnaby they we're something I was aware were a thing when my mother was a child. That's about it. I knew about drive in theaters because we still HAD one. (until about 10 years ago. Owner retired.)

[@sachielleseptiembre]

"Oh boy... Here comes the big guns!" " *_THE HILLS ARE ALIVE_* "

[@merrittanimation7721]

"*WITH THE SOUND OF MUSIC*"

[@hammysauce]

I think it's easy to say everyone has run up a hill, twirling and screaming that at the top of their lungs at least once in their life... myself... once a week 😂😂😂

[@mathieuleader8601]

the HILLS HAVE EYES

[@anirudhviswanathan3986]

"With the sound of *Chhamoone*" The MJ version.

[@hemangchauhan2864]

Death of musicals? Bollywood has you covered.

[@akashdavis8497]

Hemang Chauhan yup ! Sanjay leela bhansali, abhishek kapoor, mani ratnam, imtiaz ali, ashutosh gowariker... Bollywood directors sure have the musical genre covered. Especially those ranveer singh dance songs from padmavat and bajirao. Looks straight out of a Disney movie. When I think about it now, he would've been great as the director of live action Aladdin.

[@LacedWithOreos]

I've only seen one on an airplane and it was magical.

[@ArgoIo]

There is a TV channel here in Germany (Zee.One), which exclusively airs dubbed Bollywood productions. I always get stuck on that channel wondering what the fuck is happening. My brain can't compute it.

[@geniehossain3738]

I would love to see Lindsay do a video about Bollywood! She mentioned Om Shanti Om and a bunch of other major Shah Rukh Khan movies in past reviews, and seems to have a pretty good knowledge of Bollywood. I think she’s have some interesting thoughts to share about how Bollwood has changed over the years.

[@swarajkanr]

@@geniehossain3738 Till that time there's only one video essayist for Bollywood. Cinema Beyond Entertainment. As much as I hate the essayist, I can't deny his essays are good.

[@Cronosonic]

I find it hilarious that Dr. Dolittle of all musicals ended up killing tie-in merch to the point where Fox later signed away those rights to George Lucas for Star Wars, only to learn the hard way that Star Wars was a perfect merchandising vehicle and they just signed away the film's biggest revenue stream.

[@stevethepocket]

And with it, the means to secure the rights to the equally-profitable sequels; Lucas made so much money off that merch that he was able to fund them out of pocket. No wonder buying the rights to a movie nowadays always includes full perpetual control over the IP.

[@howdyhowdyhelga]

If hollywood wants me to get off my ass and go to a theatre to watch their films, maybe lower the damn ticket price so it isn't cheaper to wait for it on Netflix?

[@micahcook2408]

And also start to mix quality movies, commercial movies, and quality commercial movies.... it’s starting to feel like everything is to make a buck than the opposite

[@orbusg8451]

Not just ticket prices, the food prices is highway robbery. Last movie I went to the popcorn cost more than the movie ticket! Then I didn't have enough left for a drink cause they were charging 4$ for a simple bottle of water, and even more for anything else. That is insanity.

[@koloth5139]

Go to the early show on Sunday. Especially the second week out. You will be practically alone in the theater and they charge way less. I typically pay about $5.50 to see a movie. Which isn't to much worse than it was in the 90s when I was paying $4.25. As for food I just go to a semi nice place after. I would rather pay $13 for the enchilada platter than the same for a hotdog and drink.

[@jaymiechan]

@@orbusg8451 in that case, blame the movie studios themselves. Theaters make jack and shit on tickets; the bulk of the ticket cost is in how much the studio wants in addition to reel rental costs. So the only way for the theater to make some profit is in the food/drink.

[@megberts4069]

In Australia you’re looking at $15-$25 a ticket at the cinema... for a film idk if I’m even going to like? I don’t think so 🙄

[@MyPrinceRo]

the only people i saw in the theatre when I saw mamma mia 2 (twice actually) was wine moms and gays, so go us!

[@reikun86]

I saw it with my mom and sister. I liked it a lot more than I thought I would. I never saw the 1st movie. Is it any good?

[@bul13ts]

I unironically love Kate and Leopold and While You Were Sleeping, and even I'm not gay enough for Mama Mia 2.

[@QuestionableLifeChoices]

There were a ton of people in my theater both times I went, both genders, all ages. There was even a girl and her bf behind me and I kept looking back at the guy to see if he was enjoying it and he clearly was after a while lol. There was also the guy who cheered very loudly the moment Cher said "fernando" lmao

[@QuestionableLifeChoices]

@@reikun86 it's the most cringey movie I've ever seen in my life and it is 100% a guilty pleasure type of movie, emphasis on the guilty. I personally think the characters acted more like real people in the 2nd one but you can check out number 1 if you're into stuff like that lol

[@extxvlogs]

Yeah, go you, because I ain't gonna go to see that shit...

[@BaroquerChick]

Thank you, India for just saying "fuck it" and making damn near everything a musical (and also for hiring vocal talent dear god I hate that Hollywood won't just hire singers to sing)

[@dirtgirl6227]

Hot take: intermission good. I can only pay attention for 40 minutes at a time

[@Shalalacls]

@Rebecca Woolf In my country most theaters still have them! Especially for the big blockbusters... So we can all buy popcorn on the intermission and enjoy it while the good stuff happpens :D

[@imaginekudryavka9485]

It would be cool to have showings with intermissions for movies over 2 hours or so. But I would still want showings without them, because I personally usually prefer the immersion of getting totally sucked into a movie's world, over the convenience of a break. Honestly, when the credits roll and lights come back on, it's like I'm coming out of a daze, and I prefer not to speak for a few minutes afterwards while I readjust myself and shake the movie's atmosphere off. However, the lines for the bathrooms and concessions would be pretty long. The intermission would need to be the right length, so people don't either just get annoyed cause they waited in line for nothing, or end up sitting around for ages, the immersion wearing off more every moment. In actual theaters, people use the time to have a drink and socialize - if they created an area for that, maybe with a bar and all, it would solve the problem and honestly create a fun, "fancier" experience (that people would pay more for, of course).

[@moonie3866]

There's a pretty big film revival going on that consists mostly of old classics and greats (at least in LA) and I freaking love whenever there is an intermission. There's so many movies that I see now that teeter around that 3 hour markwhere I could really use a mental break to process what I've seen or to use the bathroom without missing any of the important developments. I really hope that movies consider putting brakes back into them.

[@TwelvetreeZ]

They do that in the Netherlands! Such a relief to get a toilet break 😅

[@borismuller86]

zw0lfb4um Switzerland too!

[@smjaiteh]

I do think we’re getting closer and closer to a true Superhero musical. It shouldn’t be THAT hard, Disney.

[@ButtercheeseYay]

I guess Dr. Horrible doesn't count, since it wasn't a theatrical release.

[@PhilosophyTube]

I mean superhero films are kinda like musicals already: people have big emotions and put on costumes to process them but then instead of singing they have a big powered up fight...

[@neilprice513]

If it was a satire Superhero flick, then it could be funny as hell. I think "The Tick" would make a good musical ;op

[@Joris0815]

I think Deadpool would be perfect

[@maggie5990]

Captain America: the First Avenger had a musical number and it was great

[@willryan8475]

you're the epitome of sassy english teacher and i love it

[@americossack3870]

I wish Lindsay was my English teacher...

[@oof-rr5nf]

Surprisingly apt description, dude.

[@dextrodemon]

ouch

[@pianoboydude]

every time a new lindsay ellis video comes out my day is blessed

[@joelman1989]

same

[@borismuller86]

I’ve long found it’s weird that America stopped doing the intermission. I mean, it’s a perfect way to sell more of that hugely profitable popcorn!

[@1rockcrawford]

There are two reasons for that: 1) The work life of most Americans is much more hectic than it was in the 50s/60s, where only one person needed to make an income to support a family, and intermissions eat up time, especially in a streaming era where that’s pointless. 2)Less intermissions = more screen showings= faster profits for studios.

[@ethanstump]

@@1rockcrawford once again, the Friedman doctrine adding stress to the average american.

[@archive9796]

Ignoring musicals in the cinema I think a LOT of musicals do need to be filmed People would buy dvd versions or streaming versions of Heathers the Musical or Be More Chill

[@lilpocketninja]

Unfortunately Broadway is petrified of selling less tickets and iirc of paying residuals. A lot of major musicals *are* filmed, they just aren't released/sold to the general public.

[@kennybrightwell1877]

7991 0313 I agree, although something would be lost if it were to be simply shot like a movie. That something being the spectacle of the theater show. I think the best idea would be to utilize VR headsets for something like a 360 or even 180 style video so people can still feel immersed in the spectacle of the theater. I would also think paying for a live stream would be good too, that way you can even keep the spontaneity of live performance.

[@mitkitty]

And then broadway gets mad when people film bootlegs. God knows id pay for a copy of the Groundhog Day musical, but instead i have no choice to watch an illegal bootleg to be able to fully appreciate it and understand the full show. I hate Broadway sometimes

[@jasonblalock4429]

Yeah, just look at Hamilton. For years, it's been almost impossible to get tickets, with people buying months (years?) in advance after standing in line all day just for a chance at scoring some. Allowing any sort of home video version of it (aside from clips) would be absolute suicide for the production. Hell, some people think that the trend of Hollywood adaptations of blockbuster shows like Phantom kind of sucking is actually deliberate, specifically so that they won't replace the live show.

[@tasrill]

Having only been able to pay for cheap seats to a musical I have to say that one camera just filming the entire stage from the back of the theater would replicate my experience pretty well. If it is a good enough experience for us plebs in the back of the theater then it is good enough to be filmed.

[@golgarisoul]

Did... did Venom say "turds in the wind"????

[@timy9197]

Lol yep. Venom used the word "turd".

[@wereflipper]

And yes, it is from the comics too.

[@MizukiHawkeye]

🎶 Don’t hang on...nothing lasts forever but the turds and sky... it slips away... and all your money won’t another minute buy... TURDS IN THE WIND

[@Feasco]

All we are, is turds in the wind, dude.

[@dr.quackenbacker5247]

Could someone explain to me why they went with "turd in the wind," and not the more obvious and well understood "fart in the wind?" Cause uhh...idk think turds vanish in the wind. They probably would just plop down...

[@aliquidcow]

"Rub elbows with the gum chewers" - I'm using this phrase to describe seeing films at the multiplexes from now on.

[@TheBronzeDog]

There's a reason the floors are sticky.

[@pheela]

@Jenny Shull a gumshoe is a detective.... unless cinemas are to PIs what donut shops are to cops, I dont really see how it would apply

[@ColeArmstrongSF]

Hollywood, 2019: "Millenials are killing the movie industry!" COVID-19: "Hold my beer."

[@jimslancio]

I remember when people were saying what a bad year 2019 had been, and hoping 2020 would be better.

[@bunnyfreakz]

I wish my future is bright as Lindsay skin.

[@wopac53]

all I see are those bright lips

[@HumansFreshlyBorn]

bunnyfreakz future is *as* bright

[@PrincessScrivener]

me: [adores Hello, Dolly] you: [points out its issues] me: I mean…you're not *wrong*

[@pandapal13]

I love that movie. (And most of the movies she touches on here) but yea Hello Dolly was made when the culture just wasn't in to that type of movie anymore. It happens to all niche genres. Westerns biblical epics musicals. One day we will all be talking about the rise and fall of superhero movies.

[@dulcimerrafi]

Yeah. I agree with that. While I will take Streisand over Channing any day, Streisand was still too young for the role. I agree that it was mostly an issue of timing. A quaint, nostalgic, feel-good musical being released in the age of "Sex, Drugs, and Rock and Roll" was always going to be a hard sell. This was just after Hair came out on Broadway and helped to redefine the musical, after all. If the film of Cabaret was "a musical for people who hate musicals," then the film of Hello, Dolly! is probably the musical that people who say they hate musicals are referring to.

[@isadoracostahamsi163]

No thing wrong in enjoying something. No matter the problems it has. Just means you will find happiness where other people can’t and that is great. Obvious exceptions for nazi propaganda and the likes, there is a problem enjoying those. I just realize we live in a world this needs to be said...

[@wallaosirus]

Western biblical epic musical. Now that's a niche genre I'd sit down and watch just to say I have.

[@jkfecke]

Honestly, it's unfortunate that "Hello Dolly" gets the blame, because it was certainly better-done than "Camelot" and "Oliver!" (the latter of which was a huge success...despite Mark Lester not being able to sing). And while it was unfair to Channing, it's not as if Barbara Streisand lacked the incredible amount of talent required to pull off Dolly Levi. Alas, history isn't always fair.

[@justafaniv1097]

That ending made me realize the inevitable crash of the superhero genre is going to make a really interesting video one day.

[@Kezzeract]

That crash couldn't come sooner.

[@merrittanimation7721]

I do wonder how it'll play out. Probably involving the fall of Marvel because they're the industry juggernauts at this point.

[@VertigoDefinitivo]

Agreed. Venom and the Warner movies will always struggle, but you need a bomb from Marvel.

[@Poever]

Merritt Animation Disney itself is the industry’s juggernaut, so I expect they’ll have another crash of irrelevance in the coming decade as they did in the early 80s

[@oweneastwood2223]

we'll get some lingering excitement for the spiderman and black panther series and everything else will fade

[@TtimeXP]

One trend I hope dies soon, live action remakes of animated features. (Disney movies, etc) You can use the fairytale but why must it be specifically the animated show. And now I wanna watch sounds of music, heck I wanna see that little Dollie movie.

[@mew10521]

THANK YOU!!! I hate the Disney live action remakes

[@FunSizeSpamberguesa]

@@gwendolynnemckay9240 I almost don't consider Maleficent a remake, because it did something very different from the original animated film. It doesn't feel like it's just coasting along, relying on nostalgia, which is what all the rest seem to do.

[@indi.burger2]

I swear if "like a turd in the wind" is the new "see how I glitter" im unsubing don't worry ill resub luv u lindsay

[@BenoHourglass]

At first he was saying "like a _bird_ in the wind." Turns out it was more stupid.

[@Thessalin]

Seconded. Motion carries. Turd in the Wind added to See How I Glitter and Stop Lubricating the Man.

[@msdowd85]

Forgot about "I ate the whole plate." from the Transformer analysis

[@tatehildyard5332]

You also can’t forget “I’m loosing to a bird!”. And “Why does it hurt so much? Because it was real.”.

[@Thessalin]

Those are all part of cannon now. We'll pew pew them all over movies!

[@poisonhemlock]

I'm having that dream where Lindsay Ellis' disembodied lips educate me on the film industry.

[@MattMcIrvin]

It's a science fiction (whoa whoa whoa) double feature...

[@dsilva369]

Aren't we all, poisonhemlock? Aren't we all?

[@tomemeornottomeme1864]

@@MattMcIrvin *IN THE BACK ROW, OH OH OH*

[@ladymaiden2308]

poisonhemlock yes!! And it's okay.

[@ladymaiden2308]

Matt McIrvin oh my God. Thank you for taking me there. I'd forgotten about that.

[@NerdManReturns]

7:27 Cleopatra wasn't actually a flop per say, as technically it was in fact the biggest box office hit and top film of 1963. The reason why it's considered a failure and why it nearly bankrupted Twentieth Century Fox is because it's budget was so incredibly and massively expensive ($44 million which today is equivalent to $320 million) that there was honestly no way it would have been able to break even. It would have had to have been the box office juggernaut that was the equivalent of Titanic/Gone With the Wind/Avatar of it's day for it to break even let alone make anything back. Think of it this way, as per an 2013 article by John Patterson from the Guardian that addressed the issue, he states and I quote, "It's worth noting that of the 50 most expensive movies ever made, adjusted for inflation, Cleopatra is the only one on the list that was released before 1998 - and at no 15, it's still a major contender. The budget was around $44m ($320m in today's money), the kind of outlay that might have helped NASA put a man on the moon by 1966." So yeah, Cleopatra was kind of doomed to fail.

[@guyfawkes938]

Who even gave the go to that crazy fever-dream of a movie once it passed that "point of no return" of a budget?

[@NerdManReturns]

Because it would have been financially worse to abandon the film entirely after they had already dumped so much money into it.

[@alanpennie8013]

@@NerdManReturns Watched this many years ago and thought it went on a bit. But the final scenes are incredibly compelling. We should be grateful this extraordinary movie exists.

[@PauLtus_B]

What +WalterLiddy said. No matter how much money it made, if it isn't profitable it's a flop.

[@albiehay5567]

*per se

[@abborne1]

"The Happiest Millionaire, a road show release [...] that bombed so spectacularly, you've never heard of it." I've watched this video before. I remembered that punchline. And this still feels like the first time I've ever heard of that movie.

[@mikebannwart2913]

now they should release the happiest billionaire, with the plot set around the Game, "We're Doomed" where the current space race is really about escaping a dying earth. Because how that games plays, it would be hilarious and just terrible all at once aka fun popcorn movie.

[@12classics39]

The only thing about it that we're familiar with nowadays is its song "Fortuosity"; a fun, upbeat instrumental version of that song plays on Main Street at Disneyland every day. If you listen to the park entrance music loop here on KZbin and skip to "Fortuosity," chances are an avid park visitor will instantly recognize it.

[@9sippi3]

I'm a simple man. When I see a Lindsay Ellis video, I make a 267 column excel and analyse which aspects of this video were good and which were bad. And then I press like.

[@Majromax]

At 14:05, to alleviate any confusion: the _charater's_ name was "William Shakespeare X." Ellis's narration to my ears makes it sound as if Holder himself was going by that name. I thought it odd, but in the era of 'Malcom X' I wasn't sure, hence my confusion.

[@elfin2865]

Aww, I was hoping that he really did get his name changed to that LOL

[@rotciv1486]

well, I feel stupid now. I was like "So they changed the name of the actor so the the pain in the ass actor would believe he was descendant of shakespeare? and IT WORKED???"

[@Le_Marquis_de_Faux_Images]

Mamma Mia: Crisis on Infinite Earths

[@stebsis]

We need a superhero musical

[@ButtercheeseYay]

Mary Poppins: Infinity War

[@aerialjordan2683]

It's the end of this and all Earths, EVERYBODY DANCE!

[@mathieuleader8601]

Super Mario is frightened of multiversal destruction

[@kasinokaiser1319]

Pure existencial dread

[@EmpressTiffanyOfBrittany]

BRAVE MOVIE KNIGHTS, LET US RIDE AND WATCH... CAMELOT! On second thought, let's not watch Camelot, it is a silly movie.

[@arestlesssoul251]

It's only a script.

[@JimmySteller]

I can just picture Linkara fuming over all the Camelot hate posted here.

[@sreebeetheone]

You possibly cannot expect me to listen to you talking if you put Julie Andrews in the background tbh

[@aquablue1252]

PotatoChipQueen that was Debbie Reynolds lol

[@harpermackenzie1620]

How could you possibly not love Julie Andrews?

[@dantheman6441]

Wow, a hbomberguy video AND a Lindsay Ellis video on the same day? Is it my birthday or something?

[@minch333]

And philosophy tube, and joseph anderson, and film joy, I literally haven't left my bed yet and it's 2pm!

[@yltraviole]

It's the end of the month! That's when all the youtubers wake from their slumber!

[@allonsyification]

And it sounds like Folding Ideas is releasing one soon!

[@Brassur]

Nah just the monthly deadline for patreon - I think both Lindsay and Hbomb charge patreons per video, and if they fail to publish today, they won't get paid until October 1st.

[@ladyvader3173]

@@minch333 Wait, it's still the same day for you that the Jo Anderson video came out? Fascinating. To me it seems like ages ago.

[@TrixiLovesYou]

They dubbed Audrey Hepburn's and Natalie Wood's subpar singing, but they won't do it with Emma Watson? FFS.

[@GrainneMhaol]

They could dub her every performance and I'd be happier.

[@TwelvetreeZ]

They should've cast Anna Kendrick, the movie would still have been terrible BUT her voice is fucking incredible

[@Chikadulce10]

In my opinion I think that while she was great in Cinderella, Lily James should have totally been cast for Beauty and the Beast instead. She can sing!!!! And she looks alot like Belle as a brunette. I can only assume everyone involved saw the second Mamma Mia movie and kicked themselves in the shin afterwards 😂😂

[@PungiFungi]

Back then it’s expected and accepted to dub an actor’s voice....done all the time and habitually. Now I do not think so....too Milli Vanilliesque for the audience.

[@FunSizeSpamberguesa]

@@PungiFungi No, now they just run it through Autotune.

[@aminacunningham146]

So Julie Andrews saved the Hollywood musical at first? I’m not surprised she’s the QUEEN it’s also funny bc she got cast in Mary Poppins from Camelot

[@Blaqjaqshellaq]

But her THOROUGHLY MODERN MILLIE was only a moderate success, and STAR! bombed.

[@jonathandbeer]

I'm genuinely impressed you were able to keep it together through 'lost in time like turds in the wind'.

[@smjaiteh]

Jonathan Beer🤔... ⏳ 🌬💩

[@ETFL13]

... I thought it was ‘birds in the wind’ cause turds doesn’t make sense like...?

[@FoxDragon]

I'm guessing there were a few takes for that bit

[@1980rlquinn]

Someone please make a parody Kansas song, "All we are is turds in the wind"

[@naten1570]

But with venom’s voice

[@Tamashikiri]

*spits out drink when Lindsay gets to Doctor Dolittle* Wait, you’re telling me the Eddie Murphy movie was a remake this whole time?! And of a movie so disastrously unprofitable it should have been the last movie conventional wisdom would say should be remade? What other dark secrets lie at the heart of my childhood theatre visits?!

[@Kittymouth]

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

[@bartistclord1916]

It seems to me that remakes will happen. reboots will happen, Would I rather see them remake an awesome movie, and probably fail to improve it. leading to cries of "leave it alone" and "it was already perfect, then they screwed it up" OR take crap movies that were a fail and remake THAT so it can be seen as an improvement. I would much rather they remake to improve, rather than remake worse in an attempt to squeeze a couple more dollars out of a dying franchise. (kinda like horror movies, start with one good one and go down hill from there).

[@TimboVideo]

And get this - it's being remade again. Starring Robert Downey Jr., out next April.

[@Scanny524]

And a giraffe stepped on its own cock?!

[@mathieuleader8601]

will this second remakle return to the musical format

[@lotrgeek22]

I do think Venom and Titans are reacting to a certain segment of movie viewers-the ones who earnestly liked BvS and Suicide Squad. To me, the biggest examples of Hollywood desperately clinging to something we’re all sick of today/no longer care about are 1. Continued attempts to make us care about Avatar sequels and 2. Johnny Depp.

[@aerialjordan2683]

1. the fact that I can't tell whether you're referencing the second installment "Fern Gully: No Country For Blue Men" or "The Last Shamala Twist-Bender" means you probably have a point. 2. But don't you want to see gay Dumbledore pining after a character who's inextricably fallen from grace, and who we can't help but watch become a villain? I mean either Grindelwald or Depp, so take your pick...

[@jasonblalock4429]

Yeah, *angry* is a market. (Just ask Alex Jones.) There are people who want big explosion-filled Michael Bay style blockbusters full of angry people being angry at each other for two hours or more. And they'll probably always be a market, even if the appeal of such films remains mysterious to pretty much anyone who isn't getting their kicks from mainlining rage.

[@linlinsenpai6910]

Titans, I would say, is trying more to reach the Netflix marvel market of superhero TV shows made for streaming services that is violent with dimly lit sets, majority of the heroes not in costumes but some sort of casual clothing meant to look like their costumes and internal angst. Which honestly makes sense to me considering they are trying to launch a streaming service. Kinda wish they picked a different property for it though.

[@pandahuezo-menjivar9154]

I know Avatar is widely hated and criticized, but I will always love it and will pirate every sequel. *I* am the angry market.

[@pandahuezo-menjivar9154]

MforMovesets The concept for Jumanji: Welcome to the Jungle was cool, though. They could have done so much with the idea of a video game as a framing device for the film, and they did do some things with it but not as much as they could have. And actors playing against type could have been so much fun if they had actually pushed it harder. Jack Black was really the only one doing a good job.

[@betterday2570]

All we are is turds in the wind.

[@MountainFisher]

Only if you are evil tempered and selfish as Hell. Then you are a turd in the wind out on a windy day. If you do not have a sense of humor you're like a dried out grey colored turd being blown into turd dust in the wind.

[@wjzav1971]

@Better Day That is depressingly true on so many levels.

[@Turt3752]

Kansas must be a very smelly place then

[@DalekTheSupreme]

We are all clowns in the turds or something.

[@wjzav1971]

@@DalekTheSupreme What? Are we some kind of....Turds in the Winds?

[@Rhino-n-Chips]

You lipstick is so bright I'm getting afterimages of it like when you look directly at a lightbulb. I never thought I'd experience a lipstick stain on my cerebral core.

[@roonilwazlib9877]

Rhino 'n Chips Sounds like Lindsey just... Blew your mind

[@ouijacorn]

That's what the guy from Train was singing about.

[@jaimeeleebaggley]

What then what kind of life could you have had?

[@SeymourDisapproves]

I want Lindsay's lipstick stain on my cerebral cortex 😍

[@bernebelmont1857]

I mean, I'm on the same page but what the hell

[@traviscorwin4817]

I'm happy someone is finally talking about how superhero movies are like musicals instead of making the poor comparison between superhero movies and westerns.

[@JamesWVanFleet]

I'm frustrated (in a good way) that Ellis made this comparison, because I've had this idea in my back pocket for a while and did a lot of research. But superhero movies *are* like musicals in a lot of ways. You can almost 1:1 some of the points of comparison. (Musicals/superheroes) were for a long time the result of one studio, (MGM/Disney). Both featured a premiere producer in (Arthur Freed/Kevin Feige). Neither was able to open themselves up to low-budget alternatives in a way that westerns could (due to the need for lavish spectacle). Both burst onto the scene thanks to technical advancements like (sync sound/CGI) and later on (Technicolor/3D). Both genres became increasingly dominated by branded, often long-running material like (Broadway-pedigreed shows/Marvel brands). Both genres grew longer in terms of running time and ate up more and more studio money. You could even argue that song-and-dance numbers in musicals are really the equivalents of superhero movie fights, where the story takes a protracted break while the (singers/fighters) demonstrate their skills. (What are the airport battle in "Civil War" or the Guardians/Thanos fight in "Infinity War" if not dances?)

[@Axterix13]

Except she isn't doing that. She's saying the dark and edgy bit is the trend that's past its time, that studios can't let go of. Though I'd say that's not exactly a good comparison either. WB/DC did try to fit Superman and the JL into a Batman-shaped hole, which was dumb of them. But they probably did that because Superman Returns attempt at emulating the Christopher Reeves Superman movies feel didn't work, while Nolan's Batman trilogy made big bank. But they'd learned that didn't work with BvS, Wonder Woman already stepped away from that, and the jumbled mess of course correction/abandon-ship that was JL also moved away from it. Meanwhile, the Netflix Marvel series do maintain a grittier, less bright tone, and they work. And on the WB side of things, their TV shows are bright and cheery, for the most part. And for an anti-hero like Venom, well, the darker tone can be a good fit. Just as long as you don't come up with (or borrow from the comics) incredibly stupid lines ;)

[@neac99]

James, you should do that as a video anyway. There is a lot to cover, and I think it would be pretty interesting. There is also the similarity where they stop the story to have a song and dance or elongated action scene upping the budget while making the movie worse.

[@Axterix13]

Oh, I'm not saying they did a good job of it, but that movie tries very hard to emulate a lot of aspects of the Donner films. They used outtake footage of Marlon Brando, for example, while also styling Routh to look much like Reeves. And to quote Singer: "You're thinking, 'Wow, I want to make a romantic movie that harkens back to the Richard Donner movie that I love so much.' And that's what I did." Of course, that romantic movie bit, trying to make the movie appeal to the "Devil Wears Prada" crowd, is part of where it went wrong. That's why you get the heavy focus on the Lois, the kid, and all that stuff. And I'd say that making it yet another Lex Luthor attempts to make real estate wasn't a good idea either. The end result, something attempting to go the Donner route didn't do well, while Nolan's Batman trilogy did, and the conclusion the studio came to from that was that they needed to make Superman dark and edgy as well.

[@roristevens2810]

Cracked made this comparison a few years ago, which goes to show that so far, this trend is proving hardier than the musical glut.

[@two_owls]

"Like a turd in the wind" sounds like a line the Monarch might say on the Venture Bros while failing to sound menacing... Jackson Publick have a writing credit on Venom??

[@two_owls]

Key to a good adaptation is pushing the central themes of the source material while jettisoning that which just doesn't work on screen. Methinks this particular bit of comic dialogue could have been left with the source, haha!

[@JQXJQ]

The true explanation is even way less cool, unfortunately that line is straight from the comic and not from th elips of the Mighty Monarch.

[@two_owls]

Been enjoying season 7 so far? (got mah t shirts ordered, woop woop!)

[@mathieuleader8601]

yes a great biannual series

[@two_owls]

@@mathieuleader8601 indeed!

[@ArchdukeOfBelgrade]

I m in love in her video essays. Watching this one like 5th time.

[@AmandaDavis6130]

Archduke of Belgrade they’re like comfort food in video form

[@Jekyllstein_Gray]

Only five times?

[@agent_meister477]

Join the club

[@dzonbrodi514]

Yeah she is fabulous. I also love Hbomberguy

[@mhawang8204]

Welcome to the club.

[@fish-d6488]

Honestly, I was wholly unaware that the road show had been a staple of musical marketing in the 50s/60s, because I only know it from Repo! the Genetic Opera and its successors, which all had fairly successful limited roadshows. It's too weird and unfamiliar to ever get a Lindsay Ellis video, i think, but god i would love to see her talk about Repo!. It's an editing disaster, the music is fucking wild, the whole thing was filmed on a tiny damp soundstage for $15mil, most of which probably went to paying Paris Hilton and Sarah Brightman for their... contributions. I love it so much and Lindsay would eviscerate it with grace.

[@hammysauce]

THIS!

[@ThetaReactor]

I caught that one at the local indie theater. Having the creators do an enthusiastic Q&A helps you overlook that it's just Rocky Horror for goth kids.

[@honeycombfromheaven]

I'd LOVE to see her talk about it. One of my favourite movies to ever exist.

[@tracietrog244]

I love Repo! even with the flaws.

[@LunatheMoonDragon]

Here, here!

[@TheKingMacgregor]

I can't wait for Lindsey to talk about La La Land... Lindsay, when are you going to talk about La La Land? GodDamnit Lindsey, you didn't talk about La La Land!

[@thechosenvoice3472]

hated it

[@April_a26]

6 months ago no one cared about it and 6 months later no one cares about it.

[@IamMissPronounced]

@@April_a26 except a lot of people did

[@Diwasho]

I was waiting for Rocky Horror Picture Show.

[@wenedsday]

@@Diwasho I was waiting for AT LONG LAST LOVE

[@thehopeofeden597]

Oh what a beautiful morninggg! Oh what a beautiful day! I've got a wonderful feelinggg! Lindsay's thrown a new vid my waaayyyy

[@elhardo5862]

Contents! i - The Hollywood Musical : A History : 2:42 ii - The sound of Money : 7:42 iii - Hello, Dolly!, the culmination of the fall of the musical and roadshow : 15:57 iv - The End of an Era : 19:03

[@MrTombombodil]

The Fiddler of the Roof movie is great.

[@MysteryDisc]

I watched it recently and love how extra Tzeitel is during "Matchmaker"

[@kosemekars]

It actually is.

[@KaijaSchmauss]

It really is. My choir teacher in like 8th grade had us watch it at the end of the semester after our concerts once, and I loved it.

[@ariellakahan-harth8831]

It really is! It's my favorite movie musical, and my favorite musical ever.

[@Poever]

As great as a fiddler on a roof!

[@InfiniteText]

I love learning ...THIS is what good technology in good hands looks like

[@DiabolicalPaperClip]

Literally! I love when videos that set out to inform are actually well set out and not baity and shocking.

[@nicolemiller7760]

This is the kind of content that makes video essays legitimate

[@GigawingsVideo]

She doesn't bring social and economical implication of that era though. Her essay revolves more around the companies and actors.

[@PogieJoe]

I would honestly be all about the return of roadshows. I love corny stuff like that, particularly in an age where media is increasingly cluttered and less of a unique experience.

[@tatehildyard5332]

PogieJoe Funny this was brought up Neisse I thought about this just the other day. I’d love it too but I don’t think it’s economically feasible or even all that special in the age of the multiplex. I remember the Hateful Eight Roadshow and just feeling kind of underwhelmed since that operatic Roadshow experience was trying to be recreated in an AMC in a mall in Richmond.

[@jasonblalock4429]

Yeah, plus the studios would screw it up by being tight-fisted. They wouldn't want to invest in the merch and other take-home goodies that helped justify the expense of roadshow tickets. Or, worse, they'd set up price-tier bullshit that would probably just create more resentment than revenues.

[@adnanilyas6368]

That would possibly encourage pirating until the full release.

[@PogieJoe]

@@jasonblalock4429 You both have good points. I still think there can be similar experiences worth it! For example this summer I watched an Incredibles double feature in IMAX a few days before the new film officially came out. We got a free poster too. A bit pricey but totally worth how great and unique the experience was!

[@MrJohndoakes]

PogieJoe, they did a roadshow of "The Hateful Eight", so you could see that cast murder each other on the big screen with a film projector clattering in the back.

[@nickyoude2694]

The reason why musicals back in the 1960s felt dated was a combination of things. 1. The collapse of the Hays Code which restricted what movies could show on screen (Advantage: The Graduate, Bonnie & Clyde). 2. Musicals, which relied on pure escapism lost relevance during a turbulent era of both the Vietnam War and the many riots that were happening in the late 1960s (Disadvantage: Doctor Doolittle, Hello Dolly!) 3. The collapse of the studio system. 4. The rise of rock music, Woodstock and the like.

[@nifralo2752]

And Hello Dolly is set before the great war so its already 60 years out of date.

[@marionann6746]

And 5 years after 2018, I think it's safe to say studios are in fact actually forcing a trend on life support with the Superhero genre. Like, I don't know if we've had a Hello Dolly moment yet, but in 2023, it feels like the Spiderverse movies are the only ones that people seem to be legitimately excited for. Meanwhile, DC is currently dealing with a string of box office bombs. Marvel hasn't had any major disasters yet, but the MCU's been on shaky ground in critical and fan interest since Endgame, with the recent show Secret Invasion having disappointing ratings. And add that on top of a shocking amount of box office flops from other movies this past summer so far, it feels safe to say that the studios' collective complacency has left them lagging behind on recent trends and cultural changes.

[@BaileyVogtOut]

I'd say Ant-Man Quantumania will be looked at as the Hello Dolly. It was supposed to usher in a new phase of the MCU and yet landed with an overall thwop in the public consciousness. Other than Spiderverse and arguably Guardians there hasn't been the buzz around superhero movies. Tbh I'd point to Wandavision as the "The Sound of Lady Poppins" culprit. It signaled an interest in not only superhero movies post MCU but also tie in television shows. Now that quick revitalization has worn off and people just seem completely uninterested now.

[@OfficialROZWBRAZEL]

@@BaileyVogtOut to further prove your point, I forgot an Antman movie came out this year until you mentioned it

[@xww6849]

I fully believe that films like GOTG3, spider verse, and mayyyyyybe the next Battinson movie will be looked at as “sound of music/my fair lady” moments for the genre by film historians - well received, commercially successful films in an otherwise dying genre

[@OfficialROZWBRAZEL]

​@@xww6849 yes... because they're sequels/concepts squeezing the very (admittedly well-earned) last drops of goodwill out of the audience for these kinds of films, and once those have run their course, the well will finally have run dry and we will watch franchises die a slow, epoch-defining death I'd call it _now,_ but I worry because I've been wrong before

[@nickyoude2694]

@@BaileyVogtOut That would make Loki the "Funny Oliver!" culprit. Just as the superhero TV genre was dying Loki revitalised it again.

[@lclark2132]

After the spectacular failure of films like The Flash and Ant-Man 3, this video has aged like a fine wine.

[@OfficialROZWBRAZEL]

history repeats, because they never learn their lesson...

[@anastasiagirl1342]

When I went to see Mama Mia 2 for the second time... my friend and I were alone and we sang through the entire show. And guess what? My friend and I were so happy during and afterward forgetting how stupid our country is being for a while.

[@YuliaLinderoth]

That honestly sound so fun

[@Hakajin]

This is a happy story.

[@summysums]

I’m literally obsessed with ur vids... they’re super informative and amazingly put together and you’re hilarious and put so much personality into the vids ❤️

[@Avossk]

You were just WAITING for the opportunity to talk about that "turd in the wind" line weren't ya?

[@RamblingSailors]

If I recall, movies in their first decades were considered low-class - "poor man's theater", the fodder of the lower class, who couldn't afford the hoi ploi clothing or ticket price. So the road show would have also been a way to frame moviegoing as a classy experience.

[@PaulWiele]

Ironically, "hoi polloi" refers to commoners in the original Greek.

[@yvetteberner815]

Hey, lesbians and gay men are fans of Mamma Mia too, not just wine moms!

[@danteryman5150]

As well as former roommates of said lesbians and gay men!

[@stefan1024]

What about us lame hetero dudes who enjoy the occasionally ABBA tune, have a mild crush on Amanda Seyfried and still remember Remington Steele?

[@yvetteberner815]

@bertasu don't generalize about... gay people liking ABBA?

[@tairneanaich]

Yvette Berner yeah no this one is true, dude- big old gay here, pretty sure we do actually all love ABBA

[@PGGraham]

Hey, I'm pretty seriously hetro male, a very testosterone filled manly Man, and I love Abba! And even though I can only barely tolerate Meryl or Cher, I can't wait for this!

[@Teppic11]

The Sound of Music may have been an attempt to regain the success of the 50s musical, but it was and still is an absolutely fantastic film in every sense. It's a little sentimental at times, sure, but touches a lot of dark stuff as well (yeah, remember it's full of Nazis - people amazingly keep forgetting this).

[@Sharpe1502]

Man, Christopher Plummer is the go-to for actors to replace other actors

[@merrittanimation7721]

I wonder what he thinks about it. Must be odd.

[@cinebst]

He's actually mentioned it in an interview! He's seen some of the memes about him replacing actors and he thinks they're funny.

[@jimslancio]

Nice work if you can get it.

[@99lodewijk]

Can we just appreciate the annunciation of Tom Hardy, the agility with which he says 'like a turd... In the wind.' Exquisite!

[@Poever]

I couldn’t even tell what he was saying

[@Kaefer1973]

@lou mertens The line is genius anyway they made sure to know how what the movie critics will say about it beforehand by producing a turd of a movie and including a quotable turd line in it.

[@hyperchica]

That's Tom Hardy?! Oh dear lord.

[@UTU49]

I have zero interest in seeing Venom. Not sure why. I guess I feel that I've seen enough misguided special effects... and heard enough gravely voices.

[@tragicallyhip4ever]

You showed that Venom clip repeatedly and I still can't understand a damn word he's saying. Great essay, though!

[@ericwills932]

Jacob McLaughlin “Like a turd… in the wind.”

[@DalekTheSupreme]

But... we live in a society where we're all turds in the wind!

[@PuppetMasterIX]

Funny issue with Dr. Dolittle that wasn't mentioned here: There's anecdotes mentioning that one of the parrots on set learned to yell "cut!" Needless to say, there were problems.

[@jimslancio]

I read this comment 3 1/2 minutes ago, and I haven't stopped laughing yet!

[@12classics39]

Indeed. I'll add the details to that great story. In the middle of filming a musical number (I think it was "The Vegetarian"), Rex Harrison suddenly stopped singing. The director asked him why. Harrison answered: "Uh, because you said cut." The director vehemently denied that he had said anything. Just as their argument about it heated up, they suddenly both heard: "Cut! Cut! Cut!" and realized it was the parrot, who had heard the director say "Cut" a million times by then during production.

[@MarkyMatey]

The Blues Brother's will always be the best musical. RIP Aretha Franklin

[@derekcabanaw1789]

Damn straight. As Henry Gibson said, those cars were dancing combined with the music in those chases.

[@robynhoodie]

I was about to say its one of the best car movies too. Stunts done in live streets cause it wasn't illegal yet, and a real mall cause one just happened to be closing. Everything came together so well for those chase scenes.

[@derekcabanaw1789]

I'm trying to remember when Dixie Square closed. Either it was January of 1978 or 1979 from what I've read.

[@TheDukeofCheese12]

Also one of the best movies ever. In general.

[@MattMcIrvin]

"Pier 1 Imports!"

[@KazukiriMishamiota]

This actually makes me think of The Rocky Horror Picture Show and the ridiculous phenomenon that resulted, despite the movie being a box office failure initially. I'd actually love to see an essay covering that movie on its own, since it achieved something that I don't think any other movie ever quite achieved. (It's the only movie I know of that inspired crowds of people to bring PROPS to showings.) It might also be an interesting vehicle to use to talk about drive-in movie theaters, which were sort of a phenomenon in and of themselves.

[@Dumpknoedel]

RHS is craaazy! I brought my bf to a screening, and he was incredibly nervous and had a list printed out so he would get everything right... he was super excited throughout the movie - and when we left the theatre, his first words were "man,that is a terrible movie"

[@don_5283]

I too sat down and watched the whole thing after countless gushing recommendations, and I too had exactly the same first thought. I just don't get it.

[@QuesoCookies]

I'd also enjoy a video essay on Rocky Horror just to give me a better understanding of it. Because yeah, the shadow casts are interesting and bizarre, but the movie, itself, is just terrible. I have friends who love it unironically though, so maybe a video essay could help me "get" it.

[@EvanCWaters]

The "rock musical" could be a whole subject in itself, but also Rocky Horror was one of the last big "midnight movies", a trend that really was killed by home video. There's an entire documentary about that.

[@scifikoala]

Cult classics are such a weird phenomena. Especially Rocky Horror. Its had such longevity as a cultural event, too. My mom used to go to showings in the 80s and its STILL a thing

[@neenee1257]

Are you trying to look like Snow White or is it just the lighting? Because you really remind me of that "skin as white as snow, lips as red as blood, and hair as black as ebony" line.

[@Manas-co8wl]

Holy shit I've been thinking of that exact same phrase in all her recent videos

[@Kartissa]

You realise that "skin as white as snow, lips as red as blood, and hair as black as ebony" is a pretty good description of a vampire? Maybe the Queen wasn't that wicked after all....

[@amphioxusanniversary]

@@Kartissa *cough * Neil Gaiman "Snow, Glass, Apples" Content warning for, uh, stuff though

[@Poever]

Kartissa i mishear the hair line as “hair black as a bunny.”

[@patrickflynn8840]

It's actually "a cow as white as milk, a cape as red as blood, the hair as yellow as corn, the slipper as pure as gold"

[@theresastarmanwaitinginthe5149]

Isn't Mamma Mia just new music videos for ABBA songs?

[@Snake-bq3kf]

There's a starman waiting in the sky essentially, yes. All jukebox musicals are

[@Seeriosa]

Also new covers by cher

[@MarkyMatey]

Much like toy commercials, yes this is to sell more albums.

[@PanAndScanBuddy]

This take is hot enough to warm my coffee, but I can't make smores on it.

[@EvanCWaters]

It's not a new thing. There were golden age musicals that did this as well, I believe. (Also I really liked both Moulin Rouge and Across the Universe so sometimes it can work- though the latter is way different from a traditional musical and the former is also that, AND takes songs from every source it can find.)

[@X_MissMary_X]

And now I've had the intermission music from Monty Python going through my head off and on all day. Thanks for that.

[@samshep6865]

There's nothing quite like discovering a new youtuber, binging their videos, and then have them upload a 25 minute video about an interesting topic. :D

[@MisterCasket]

A 'new' youtuber? I think you mean new to you ;)

[@r0bw00d]

Yeah, Lindsay's been around since back when Channel A-Word was called the League of Super Critics. She got her start as the Nostalgia Chick.

[@ArticBeauty]

@@MisterCasket i'm pretty sure that's exactly what they meant. no need to be snotty about it.

[@Dorian_sapiens]

yeemo fanta Glad to have you with us!

[@heartlknj]

I completely agree, I binged 10+ videos since discovering this channel yesterday

[@CASTSTONE]

$6 in 1967 is $46 in 2019.

[@kyleh3615]

As opposed to the $2 being $15 today

[@silentlamb21]

Oh wow.. that is indeed a little pricey!

[@Christopher_TG]

I don't know what to be shocked by in that statement, that the price was that high or that that's how much inflation has affected the dollar's value.

[@michaelgoldstein8516]

So the price of a small popcorn at the movies.

[@IAmGeorgeLucas]

Turd in the wind.... all we are is turds in the wind.

[@TheQuashingoftheTub]

George Lucas . . . Well, you're not wrong...

[@star88wars]

same old song

[@JimPlaysGames]

Turd. Wind. Dude.

[@TheFiresloth]

I don't like turds in the wind. It's squishy, moist... And it gets everywhere.

[@rorcknar]

George Lucas it's like poetry

[@ash12181987]

I would legitimately love a followup to this, with consideration to 2020 and what it's done to the movie industry.

[@Xondar11223344]

My very favourite musical, which I feel doesn't get enough recognition in its genre, is The Blues Brothers. Also, I couldn't stop laughing at the end: "All these moments will be lost in time . . . like turds in the wind . . ."

[@Feasco]

Ah, Blues Brothers. A one in a kind movie. There's never been anything like it. Definintely no sequels.

[@yvetteberner815]

Oh man, the Blues Brothers.... an action comedy with fantastic music, fun car chases, and that one scene where the Nazis get driven into the river. I think the reason some people don't see it as a musical is because it's a jukebox musical, like Mamma Mia. I think that just makes it better, though.

[@roristevens2810]

The 80s All Over podcast crew really, really loves "The Blues Brothers" as a musical and it's worth hearing their analysis of it as such (from the June 1980 episode).

[@LilPinkFuzzyMonster]

That's fair, Blues Brothers lives on the line of being a diegetic musical imo.

[@Xondar11223344]

I didn't even realize it was a musical until last year sometime when my wife and I watched it, her for the first time. She called it a musical and I said "no it's not!" indigently. Then I thought about it for a few minutes and realized: she's 100% right. I've loved that movie for 20 years and never realized before. Also, I think it does have non-diagetic elements, like during Minnie the Moocher when the band transforms into a brass band and Cab Calloway is suddenly wearing a tux. After the song is over, they're all back to their drab selves.

[@zainrizwan5421]

The problem with Shrek is we can't ever surpass it's elusive genius in the entire time of human existence.

[@nifralo2752]

For shrek is love shrek is life

[@choryllis6646]

I like the fact that the 3 musicals that did amazingly after everyone thought they were dying all had Julie Andrews as an integral part of it. Mary Poppins and Sound of Music movies started her, while My Fair Lady was arguably her stage show. Just goes to show her power I guess?

[@michaeladkins6]

Victor/Victoria?