The Hobbit: A Long-Expected Autopsy (Part 1/2)

[@cheezemonkeyeater]

That bit where you showed Christopher Lee talking about his motivation . . . that's Christopher Lee in a nutshell. The man has never turned in a bad performance even when he knows he's in something that's total crap because he believed it was what he owed the audience. They paid money to see the film and they deserved to be entertained by something, so even if nobody else cared, he would. He put his all into EVERYTHING he did and worked hard to craft a unique performance for every character he played. God, I miss Christopher Lee.

[@blueroninstudios]

We all miss him.

[@blakgumshoo]

😢

[@OspreySoul]

Well said. I aspire to put as much effort and love into what I do as Lee did.

[@xavierreallyplaysgames]

Ansem the Wise indeed 👏

[@ShellShock794]

He would be proud to read things like this

[@harmonious_choir]

The Hobbit, a book with the moral "don't be greedy" gets a movie adaptation that's splits one book into THREE long movies with EXTENDED VERSIONS.

[@Mediados]

You rather have one or 2 overrushed movies that cut half the story?

[@harmonious_choir]

@@Mediados did you not watch the video? Most of the stuff in the movies was unimportant filler

[@Mediados]

@@harmonious_choir To be honest, i didnt. I just came here to see critical opinions on the Hobbit. I can just enjoy a movie pretty easily. I mean there are things that can really piss you off, but i think the Hobbit trilogy is a masterpiece like LotR. I tend to just ignore small mistakes. Apart from the awkward romance i cant think of anything that bothered me while watching it.

[@Mediados]

@@harmonious_choir I meant a general idea of what people who critizise the movie think. Not one persons opinion.

[@Octo12345]

@@Mediados It's bizarre to click on a video, not watch it and go straight to the comment section. The hell man?

[@whalesharko4465]

The worst part is, the Hobbit was such a beautiful book, it was almost like Tolkien said "You don't need a huge issue threatening the entire world or a heroic, selfless always right hero to make a compelling fantasy story"

[@eliwiederhold4198]

most newer movies could learn this... everything is about the end the world. Thereby nothing is.

[@whalesharko4465]

@@eliwiederhold4198 I know exactly what you mean, you overuse a serious issue and it reverts back to unimportant Give me a character with so many flaws I almost hate them, but give them difficult choices so I can empathize with them, give them a nice arc *NOT FUELED BY ROMANCE* (it's such a cop out for the story and arcs) And cherry on top, make it not the end of the world

[@eliwiederhold4198]

@@whalesharko4465 but fanciny graphics fix all problems... sersely good drectures can't be THAT expenive

[@whalesharko4465]

@@eliwiederhold4198 unfortunately, good directors are always under pressure to not do anything exciting and make "the audience happy" with the same old shtick, when really the audience wants something very similar to what the director wants

[@eliwiederhold4198]

@@whalesharko4465 Then why do they force standers that will just cost them selfs money for, at best, arbray resions?

[@yaumelepire6310]

"Gandalf, she’s married!" has got to be one of the funniest lines, in context, ever read.

[@j.calvert3361]

When you consider that Gayndalf..... oops 😬

[@Pineappolis]

...and (this might be the only chance I get to publicly be _this_ much of a Tolkien nerd so I'm taking it), while I 100% don't blame Cate Blanchett for not having read the Silmarillion - for all that I love having _once_ read it, it's almost exactly like reading the Old Testament for fun while actually you're doing it - wizards (or at least what they generally _are)_ and elves absolutely _can_ procreate. Two of Aragorn's ancestors are an elf and a very, _very_ powerful wizard/Sauron-type being. It's so, _so_ petty for it to bother me but it bother me it does.

[@fernandounda3681]

,I hope you give a chance to How I 'Fixed' The Hobbit edit by Chris Hartwell he improves the vision so much and make it enjoyable

[@JasonMatsoukas]

I saw the m4 edit and wasn't disappointed. To the contrary, it was awesome. All rubbish removed.

[@dynomar11]

​@@j.calvert3361wut

[@PangolinMontanari]

Legolas running on a collapsing bridge is a perfect metaphor for literally the entire thing.

[@UTU49]

Is this what you're thinking? --> Both the scene and the whole thing are... Surviving pointless, repetitive dangers without any kind of build of tension, or advancement in character development.

[@angieliang8475]

oh what a underrated comment

[@YourPalJamieEllis]

@@UTU49 it has the added parallel that, especially in Five Armies, Jackson was in his own words having to frantically lay down track in front of a speeding train. There was such loving and cohesive unity behind the production design serving such a rushed and money-driven approach to actually telling the story, and the stress of having to bridge those worlds and hold it together probably took years off of Jackson's life. It's genuinely saddening.

[@UTU49]

@@YourPalJamieEllis Great comment, Jamie.

[@linamina3600]

It sounds really stupid, but this was the one thing that made me watch the Hobbit films. I loved the LotR movies but had no interest in watching the Hobbit movies until someone told me about this scene - and I just had to see that.

[@Gusto3791]

I remember Smaug's voice shaking the entire theater and being so blown away by the audio mixing in that part.

[@templarw20]

What I remember about audio mixing was the Goblin King scenes in the first, and having to strain to hear half the dialogue, and having the other half attempting to blow out my ear drums. The sound mixing was physically painful...

[@flo8517]

@@templarw20 then you were in a shit cinema

[@austins.2495]

@@templarw20 snowflakes melt easily, don’t they?

[@madcapmakov2]

Peter Jackson was good at his sound mixing

[@NioFiota]

@@austins.2495 What's your point? That comment was made a year ago

[@catherinemxoxo]

the relationship between kili and the elf is soooo wattpad. after knowing each other for like 3 days “it hurts because it was real” GIRL HUH?!

[@Flame-rp6yq]

oh, why does the fire burn me? why is water wet? why is air windy? why is the ground hard? ...because it was real

[@valandiln.418]

Not a fan of this Kili/Tauriel relatioship... But... Romeo and Juliets timeline also displays a three day period and that is an amazing love story. So time is not of the essence here. It is not the lenght of the love but that they have no connection at all that makes it unbareable. And Maria and Tony from West Side Story only need 24 hours from their first meeting until their demise.

[@teddy-1965]

@@valandiln.418 Romeo and Juliet was never intended to be a love story. “Love” plays a role in it, but it’s first and foremost a tragedy about two TEENAGERS, one of whom is shown to be a bit...fickle when it comes to romance. This also applies to West Side Story since its an adaptation of Romeo and Juliet.

[@ImGoingSupersonic]

Yea it was extremely cheesy

[@troubledwaters7441]

@@valandiln.418 Romeo and Juliet is considered a love story by those who misread and misunderstand it. Point blank. I know it is misunderstood in mainstream media a lot, and misrepresented to be the ultimate love story. It's not, nor is it romantic.

[@vsf_dave811]

The fact that the process of filming these movies brought Ian McKellan to tears will always leave a sour taste in my mouth. I also feel terrible for Peter Jackson, who I’m sure did his best with the extremely rushed timeframe he was given.

[@rhythmandblues_alibi]

I believe Viggo Mortensen pointed out the downfall of Peter Jackson was his growing obsession with CGI. Much like the director of another beloved trilogy who also created a thoroughly disappointing prequel trilogy 🙄

[@jessiedraco8727]

@@rhythmandblues_alibi extra context for the last sentence?

[@rhythmandblues_alibi]

@@jessiedraco8727 George Lucas.

[@leinad8894]

@@rhythmandblues_alibi where did viggo say that?

[@rhythmandblues_alibi]

@@leinad8894 he was quoted in another LOTR making of video on YT. I'll see if I can link it for you.

[@catdragon2584]

“I wish I had as much fun at anything in my life as Cumberbatch does playing Smaug.” ...yeah, me too.

[@MrPiccoloku]

He looks and sounds so adorable when he's having that much fun!

[@sopota6469]

@Coley Durham a lot of people feel miserable even in high paying jobs. Money isn't everything.

[@HamsterPants522]

@Coley Durham I've been happier when I'm not getting payed than when I am. And furthermore, amassing wealth has never been synonymous with finding happiness. That's something most people won't do, rich or not.

[@gmoddude12]

@@HamsterPants522 money is probably the main reason my life is in shambles im challenged enough that a regular job doesent work and is stuck waiting for official help to figure out what the hell we do i barely have money to pay all my bills having to try and keep from eating for as long as possible before it starts to hurt just so i can fit what i have left into a month and the list goes on so yeah i would say money can really make some people happy and is pretty damn important if you want a slightly nice life

[@HamsterPants522]

@@gmoddude12 I empathize with your situation. I've been broke and homeless before, but what makes a person happy is all a matter of what their values are. One could be happy living on the streets, or surviving in the woods, and one could be miserable and suicidal while living a comfortable life in a nice house.

[@seanalbro3689]

I feel...thin...stretched, like...one book adapted into three movies

[@lampad4549]

Fun fact the godfather is the same

[@woodsplitter3274]

... Like butter over too much bread.

[@iwanttobelieve2]

I don't feel so good, Mr stark

[@legoguy2554]

Haha Love that

[@legoguy2554]

Or like book over too much movie

[@Acebender]

"Gandalf she's married!" still remains one of my favorite quotes from Lindsay

[@ryanwalters5290]

@Foxglove Nope, your friend is right. Galadriel and Gandalf have a *huge* amount of respect for one another and are definitely friends, but their relationship was never romantic in the slightest. Just like your friend said, very old friends with a great deal of respect for one another. Edit: And the thing about Galadriel being married, I have a really hard time believing that Tolkien, a devout Catholic, would ever write one of the most morally good characters in his entire mythos as going behind her husband's back.

[@willgriffin5647]

@@ryanwalters5290 I've noticed them giving each other looks even lotr. I never got anything sexual from it though, Idk what I'm missing that other people are seeing.

[@jeroenvangils9034]

@@willgriffin5647 There was not a scene where Gandalf met Galadriel in Lord of the Rings as I recall it. Don't be hasty master Griffin.

[@willgriffin5647]

You right, i thought she was in Rivendell during fellowship for some reason.

[@valkeakirahvi]

"If only wizards and elves could procreate" They can. In fact the great great grandma of Elrond was a Maia.

[@alecgolas8396]

"Fellowship of the ring is so good it makes me angry" FINALLY someone GETS IT

[@JustWasted3HoursHere]

I remember being mostly satisfied with the first installment of this trilogy, feeling it followed the book by about 80% or so. Sadly, the remaining two in the series were a huge letdown.

[@wokeil]

@@JustWasted3HoursHere I just finished watching them too and I agree. I do like the two films but the first one is just on a different level

[@Cussy69_420]

@Nademir yes and no! It's (of course) very well done and entertaining as hell. But there are some critiques to be in my opinion. They way Jackson portrayed the Gollum, Frodo, Sam saga was pretty bad and they left out some pretty cool and/or important parts of the book which led to some weird moments in the 2nd and 3rd part. The way he portrayed Faramir for example, King Theoden and the whole Rohan plot and also the way they chose to use Gimli, Legolas, Mary and Pippin as comedic relief. Which is fine, you could do that comedic relief stuff, absolutely granted but they way they did it was.... meh! But most of my points here are minor ones, so again.. You're kinda right and wrong at the same time.

[@limlaith]

YES!!

[@wheatonna]

@@JustWasted3HoursHere Exactly!

[@TheStanishStudios]

I’m beyond saddened we’ll never get del Toro’s whimsical two-part adventure, with nice balance of small scope and dark undertones

[@ChristheMad]

Sadder yet, was that his project of a Justice League Dark movie back in 2011 never came to fruition...

[@Amitlu]

I wouldnt have liked his pacific rim-esque smaug tho

[@TheInflicted]

Amitlu His Smaug would have been Doug Jones wearing plastic horns.

[@KeybladeMasterAndy]

Nor his Haunted Mansion movie. Come to think of it, a lot of Del Toros ideas don't get made.

[@nickievison1134]

Combined with his determination to complete the Hellboy trilogy.

[@SamAronow]

"Why does it hurt so much!?" "Because I'M LOSIN' TO A BIRD!"

[@VoidHugger]

"Why does it hurt so much!?" "Because you ate the *whole* plate."

[@SodaVampire]

Smaug covered in the melted gold: "See how I glitter!"

[@LindsayEllisVids]

I've finally found my merch tagline

[@Michae89]

This guy deserves some reward ;)

[@cookieaddict16]

This comment thread has more gold than Smaug.

[@suspedal]

"I don't remember the vfx being terrible...maybe she's over exaggerating" *sees the molten gold scene* "OH SWEET BABY JESUS"

[@ReitheOffbeatOtaku]

grixisftw Most of the titular Battle of the Five Armies looks downright plastic; it's amazing that the effects seemed to get worse as the trilogy went along.

[@Skip6235]

It because it was extremely rushed and they had nearly run out of budget. I feel really bad for Peter Jackson. He took one of the greatest works of modern fiction, something that should have been unadaptable, and turned it into one of the greatest pieces of cinema in history, and because of that greedy Hollywood studio execs almost killed him by making him make the Hobbit and effectively ending his career. It's infuriating.

[@WTFisTingispingis]

grixisftw Not to mention Billy Conoly's CGI double...and all the CGI soldiers. And Legolas on the rocks. Goddamn.

[@movieman410]

Still looks better than the cg in crystal skull which I bet she’ll wrongfully give a better rating to

[@bennettfender1546]

grixisftw at least Smaug looks great.

[@danboom101]

I will never not laugh at the fact that they had Thorin charging out with the ringwraith theme playing like it's his battle theme.

[@CelebrianUndomiel]

"Is this two or three? Oh, it's three is it? It's three. There you go. It's that easy to be confused." Orlando, telling it like it is 😂😂

[@fallingpetunias9046]

Makes me wonder what his film schedule was. Did they film all of his scenes for all the movies together? Or was he just not sure when they'd call him back or how often? He seemed not to care either way.

[@neptuneplaneptune3367]

One line and it tells how not even the actors liked this. I mean he even know how many movies doing because the thing is SUCH a mess!

[@rileyosteen6470]

@@neptuneplaneptune3367 The implication to me is he wasn't aware what movie the scene they were filming was going to be in, not how many movies there were going to be. Not a huge deal, just figured I'd point it out regardless.

[@cyprel]

Not really *that* telling though, in my opinion. Movie schedules are notoriously chaotic, and it is not uncommon with trilogies to film multiple movies at the same time. I don't think it's that uncommon for actors to be confused about where exactly in the story the current scene is supposed to fit.

[@mcihay246]

@lennon 41 Nice opinion... But I'd rather put all three LotR films into one. Therefore the intro and the ending is consistent in length with the entirety. Besides, Two Towers isn't terrible as long as it is relative to the trilogy. -Frodo understanding Smeagle which plays into why Frodo chooses Gollum over Sam. -Samwise's ending speech to his suffering friend, which makes things hurt when he's told to leave before Shelob's Lair. -Introduction of Faramir, and the family dynamics between him, his brother and his father. -Fate playing a part through Gandalf, how he cannot die until his purpose of instilling hope is complete. -Legolas and Gimli, their friendship and rivalry growing despite being opposing races. -Aragorn's true leadership for man showing, and not just for those of his allies in the Fellowship. -Merry and Pippin, showing the simplicity of the Hobbit race. Known to be a race that's smart yet very simple. Making it even more understandable in how the Ring has a harder time corrupting them. -Saruman's betrayal of more than just joining Sauron, but by going against the purpose given to him just like all the other wizards of Middle Earth. The ents showing the consequences of his folly. Which also plays a part in why the Eagles will no doubt help Gandalf when needed. -Theodin being a great and flawed king of the common man who's worth following. -Also, Orc/Uruk-hai/Goblin tactics are first shown here in the Battle of Helm's Deep. How they rely on a battle of attrition to compensate for their lack of intelligence and discipline. This is further expanded later, in how they also rely on instilling despair among their enemies... In which makes Gandalf's role as a harbinger of hope even more prevalent. So I'd have to disagree that The Two Towers is a terrible film. Because in the end, it still plays an imperative role to the entire narrative of the trilogy.

[@AhriOfAstora]

Seeing how enthusiastic Smaug is about gold and has built in fire breathing, one would suspect he would know melting point of his favourite thing.

[@colinliddle6000]

Dragonfire can't melt gold beams.

[@edwardo1018]

That's not the issue with this movies IMO

[@eloquentwizard7492]

Your mom knows

[@TheBlackLobo]

watch me dazzle like a diamond in the rough

[@byuftbl]

It was middle earth they didn’t have Google to look it up 😂😂

[@Goabnb94]

"Why does it hurt so much?" Because you asked for no unnecessary love triangles but the writers gave you one anyway

[@Sipu97]

Studio. Studio gave them one. Give the discredit where it's due.

[@iprobablyforgotsomething]

@Sipu97 -- lol, I like that adaption of the common saying, may have to borrow it for the future.

[@normadgarmez7026]

And because it was real

[@kelleyceccato7025]

Because they took your rightful Vengeance Kill and gave it to a DUDE!

[@emiefa1829]

TRUE

[@sam4330]

I get why Lindsay Ellis decided to quit, but damn, I miss her. This video essay trilogy is so well made. There aren't many video essays I like enough to rewatch just because I enjoy watching them, but this is my third or fourth time watching this.

[@kamranki]

You must really hate this Hobbit trilogy so much!

[@Endru85x]

@@kamranki and you must have no points to defend this movie so that is the best you can write.

[@Pineappolis]

@@Endru85x You never know, they never said they hate them _too_ much. Could be congratulatory. Seriously, though, the idea that you have to agree with a superbly-crafted and presented video essay to enjoy is just... sad. I _strongly_ disagree with a lot of Lindsay's (and other essayists') takes in her (or their) essays and I've watched them all several times because challenging your own views is far more enriching than simply having them comfortingly confirmed to you and a second or third watch can be worthwhile because your own views can evolve as you consider them. That and you can just miss or misinterpret stuff first time round.

[@Endru85x]

@@Pineappolis when did i state you have to agree with everything in an essay? My point is that people can like Hobbit movies and i can live with that but i can,t stand those who cannot come up with a single point to defend the movie so the best they think of is considering someone a hater or writing shit like " Hey those movie could have been worse". No shit Sherlock, there are some things i like in Hobbit, does not change the fact there is so much unnecessary stuff and wasted potential.

[@Pineappolis]

​@@Endru85x [Deep, beleaguered sigh at own, sadly predictable, stupidity] my apologies, the second, “they,” in my comment was supposed to read, “you,” and so the body was intended as a rebuttal of the comment previous to yours - but with a tongue-in-cheek little joke at the start that necessitated it be a reply to yours. Hopefully, with that correction, my comment will make sense on reread. Given how it started, though, this may be optimistic on my part. You really must have wondered what in God's name I was talking about, huh? EDIT: It gets worse - I only now noticed you and the OP were different people so my comment is _still_ wrong. The second, "they," should _actually_ read, "the OP." Also, I guess the following "hate" should now read, "hates." Seriously, to quote Scrubs, I need to replace the Captain of my Brain Ship because he's drunk at the wheel (which is almost impressive considering _I've_ been sober as a judge throughout).

[@angryyogbuscus1578]

Sweet Christ I had forgotten just how GOOD Christopher Lee's voice was.

[@velvet_victor]

Everything about him is awesome.

[@tompor561]

Too bad we will never hear it again in the future :(

[@hellformichelle]

Commenting a year late to say for anyone who might stumble upon it: there is an amazing version of Lee reading Poes Raven. I regularly go back to that and listen to it thinking about what an amazing man Christopher Lee was and how much he is missed.

[@donblosser8720]

Why doe people have to swear in the name of Jesus or Christ? Suggestion- just for fun, spend a month swearing in Muhammad's name. On a summer vacation in Saudi Arabia.

[@angryyogbuscus1578]

@@donblosser8720 que?

[@Anna-tk7ui]

TBH, the only thing I remember from these movies is that people legit shipped Smaug and _Bilbo_ because of Johnlock.

[@ryanahr2267]

Welp, I've officially found something worse than Anakin/Chewbacca and the Snape/Hermione (like, first year Hermione) fan fics from back in the day. Jesus Christ.

[@TheBrassGeologist]

@@ryanahr2267 seriously?? Gross

[@ryanahr2267]

@Bookworm12 The internet is weird now, but back in the early and mid '00s it was fucking Mad Max.

[@beatrizreny5228]

That’s so fucking gross

[@alexandrapedersen829]

I mean, as monstrous reptiles go, Smaug is kind of a daddy.

[@markdesmond3659]

For me the CGI was the most irredeemable part. LOTR looked realistic and used the natural beauty of New Zealand, The Hobbit used CGI so much that it was almost an animated movie.... Even the characters played by real actors like the dwarves appeared animated

[@jaquitavulpix3418]

The goofy, cartoony tone of those CGI-action scenes didn't make it better.

[@jjj7790]

It's incredibly sad that the tension in the movie is so pitiful with million dollars of CGI, when they basically made the scariest scene in the trilogy back in 2001 just by filming in the woods with a costumed dude on horseback.

[@MrMarinus18]

The problem is that the CGI is far too pretty. In LOTR also partially because of technical limitations it looks rough and dirty which makes it blend in far better. Also a lot of things are purely CGI. In the original LOTR while things like the massive army of Rohirrim was CGI almost all the close-up shots and tracking shots were actors. Even some of the shots of the Mumakill were models and puppets. My biggest issue is towards the end where I usually lose track. Just what is happening, where are the shots, who is where. It just becomes a blur. It does make me appreciate just how well cut and directed the battle of Minas Tirith truly is. There is just as much stuff going on at once and I never feel lost or confused.

[@nachoooooo800]

Agreed... EVERYThing was FUZZy, so much cgi fuzz

[@nifralo2752]

Yeah its very George Lucas

[@DeepikaGinger]

Thranduil in the book was not a greedy jerk. After Laketown was destroyed, Thranduil went to help them and, after they reached the mountain, only supported the Lakemen’s claim to the treasure. Bard rewarded him richly afterwards, but Bard was the one who got most of the share. And Thranduil was the one who counselled restraint and patience to avoid going to war over gold. Thranduil in the book was interesting to me because he was an antagonist but not a villain.

[@JonathanSH]

I think he is a good character in the movie. Different for sure, but definitely not a villain. His character makes sense with the context of the jackson movies and demonstrates the growing distrust between dwarves and elves

[@DeepikaGinger]

@@JonathanSH I’m glad that the character works for you, but I personally am not a fan of how he’s portrayed. The thing is, I think Peter Jackson rather went out of his way to portray him as unlikable in the films. We see him show classism within his own community, and not be very well-liked by his own people. There’s also his relationship with Legolas that seems to have little warmth, and we see Tauriel criticising his every move, in a way that indicates that he’s a selfish and ineffective ruler. His antagonism with the dwarves is understandable based on their history, as is his decision to not fight the dragon, but him not doing anything to help the refugees is cruel in any context, and a rather large deviation from the book, because he treated even his prisoners well. We also literally have him inform Bard that he’s not helping his people for their sake. In the book, I feel that the mutual distrust between the races was portrayed well, since Thranduil thought that the dwarves possibly meant his people harm when they approached them, especially since they refused to divulge their purpose in coming there, and the dwarves didn’t want to tell the elves anything about their quest and weren’t very polite either. But, they never harmed each other, and neither side was eager to go to war with the other either.

[@JonathanSH]

I see where you are coming from. I agree he should treat his own people better, considering he is supposed to be strongly nationalist. Thats what I like about him in the movie. The growing evil in the mirkwood has made him distrustful and bitter to outsiders, and he is only concerned for the wellbeing of his kin. I think he would be a more consistent and understandable character if he was more caring for his people. I understand why you would want him to be a better person tho. He is definitely a strongly flawed character

[@DeepikaGinger]

@@JonathanSH Exactly. I wouldn’t have loved it, but I’d have found it a bit more redeemable if he’d been portrayed as a concerned ruler towards his own people, at least. But, he was shown to be willing to go to war for the sake of some jewels, so he obviously didn’t value their lives too much. He wasn’t doing it for the sake of the people of Laketown either, while, in the book, he was pretty reluctant to wage war over treasure.

[@Tallorian]

Indeed. Some lines by Lindsay made me think that she either didn't remember the book too well, or didn't understand certain parts or characters. But hey, many characters had it even worse in the movie, starting with Thorin.

[@FiveSigma72]

Your analysis is perfect. The "Gandalf, she's married " line was legit hilarious.

[@TheDoomChibi]

"...did they fuck?"

[@BattlestarZenobia]

From what I understand that was Guilmo Del Toro’s addition

[@VetkinaOlga]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt that chemistry between Gandalf and Galadriel in the movie, I watched it in the theater and was like oh wow that was hot and my friend - big Tolkien nerd - said y'know, she's married. :DD

[@darkmaster539]

@@VetkinaOlga Her husband is in the lord of the rings. Not a big role, but he is there when they meet galadriel.

[@TheEndKing]

@@summbuddie9120 Wizards have their ways.

[@tzisorey]

Rumor has it that most of the money spent on turning Benedict Cumberbach into a dragon was *_actually_* the money they had to pay to convince him to become human again afterwards.

[@crazytuffandco.]

Tzisorey Tigerwuf hahaha

[@Nukestarmaster]

Always be yourself; unless you can be a dragon, then always be a dragon.

[@tzisorey]

No argument here ;)

[@NinjaGamr64]

You sir win the internet!

[@voidishprattles4319]

"Ben youre not Smog please stop making a horde of loose change in the bathtub and get some dinner"

[@brief.candle.9674]

“Things mean things” is how I’m going to begin every literary analysis from now on. I’ll let you know what it does to my GPA.

[@SonjaPond]

Update? lol

[@Thunderkid13579]

Yeah, how does it hold up

[@TehNightfallen]

I heard "themes mean things" which makes a bit more sense in context

[@xCorvus7x]

@@TehNightfallen In the context of this video? I think there in particular the more basic, dumb and hilarious sounding phrase fits better to what Lindsay wants to express.

[@sarahbeisell3511]

"This means something" - Richard Dreyfuss 'Close Encounters of the Third Kind'

[@wahoo42069]

I could watch an hour of Benjamin Cumberland crawling around on the floor pretending to be a dragon

[@jamierobertson9832]

What movie was he in?

[@makethisgowhoosh]

Didn't he play Shamrock Helms?

[@historian8214]

Burlington Coatfactory.

[@AsherracT]

@@jamierobertson9832 The Hobbit movies as Smaug

[@blueshit199]

between this and his fursona from the Penguins of Madagascar movie I'm beginning to believe that the dude is a furry

[@meggy0]

As an 13 year old growing up in Wellington, New Zealand LOTR changed my entire life, and my country. I met Peter Jackson on the red carpet and he was so kind to me, I cried during ROTK, knowing it was over, I did all the Hobbit tours, went to Hobbiton, I made friends with people from all over the world who only came because to New Zealand because of LOTR. Seeing these changes in my country made me want to get into film. 10 years later my dream came true, I got to work on all the Hobbit movies. But this childhood dream of creating worlds, basically turned into my grown up stressful work life, and this dream movie, The Hobbit, turned from 2 movies to 3 and it was never going to be the movie I had in my head. I was a tiny cog in a huge machine with no power over anything, and I could never distance myself from it. As much as these films weren't what I wanted, they still carved who I am now. So thank you for this, this made me cry, maybe I can find home again, it's been 5 years, maybe should re-watch over Easter! Enjoy New Zealand xx

[@Juxtaposedjoker]

*hugs*

[@jorgemt62]

Even if you hadn't read The Lord of the Rings, you knew Boromir had to die, since he was played by Sean Bean.

[@mihlejonas3625]

True

[@tripledigit4835]

Everyone who thought Eddard Stark was going to survive is actually dumb as fuck. It’s Sean Bean, he always dies.

[@unfathomable3434]

He died in oblivion,when he was an emporer.

[@ppk4766]

@@unfathomable3434 which was also a part of another iconic epic fantasy (The Elder Scroll)

[@unfathomable3434]

@@ppk4766 yeah. In short Sean bean does not have luck with ruling fantasy lands

[@pixelpixelboom]

Honestly the moment of hearing Nella's voice has made me so happy in a way that I did not expect.

[@carlawatches8361]

pixelpixelboom I love your reviews and LP's!

[@jaimejulien]

same. in tears.

[@MirellaSnape]

Yeah, I might have shed a tear.

[@beckyginger3432]

Unexpected crying

[@leavesoflibra1463]

It's the music.

[@snowcraft-d3d]

Having recently watched a fan recut of the Hobbit, I can honestly say, there's a *lot* it does right, in individual scenes. The issue, I think, mainly comes down to a lot of the big action scenes dragging on way too long, and the side-plots being utterly irrelevant, tacked-on, pacing-killers. Pretty much all of the Hobbit's issues come down to poor pacing, and gratuitously long, or utterly unnecessary scenes.

[@jefffinkbonner9551]

And the over use of CGI! Felt like watching a video game viewing that trilogy. But those pacing issues are what happens when the studio and producers demand three long movies for nothing other than greed.

[@LightSourceTemple]

Cutting out the extra scenes and plot lines actually almost completely fixes the movie

[@Itomon]

Can you share where to access this recut?

[@PMLNavarro]

In other words, A TERRIBLE MOVIE. No, wait - THREE TERRIBLE MOVIES! Based on a beloved SINGLE book!

[@cryptic-lemon9755]

@@PMLNavarro nah the films were still great. My only problems with them were the overuse of CGI and pacing but the characters themselves were so lovable and the story itself was so engaging, I can’t NOT like it

[@taewae]

"lotr: fellowship of the ring is so good it makes me angry" LITERALLY ME. what a perfect way to express how great this movie is lol

[@greenyawgmoth]

Hell, same. And holy shit I would *absolutely* watch a Silmarillion movie.

[@curtissheppard7469]

taewae bjo

[@curtissheppard7469]

greenyawgmoth kook jnokkkbbkkjkkkokbnkkkbjbokb

[@WasKE395]

@@greenyawgmoth I would love for it to be a massive tv series instead with more artistic freedom. So many storylines in that book that I think it would feel messy in a movie.

[@madcapmakov2]

That’s pretty much going back to classics and then, looking at today’s modern films in a nutshell.

[@ellakaale]

I literally had to cover my ears because I cannot bear to hear “I could have anything down my trousers” one more time in my life

[@obiwankenobi9141]

He literally references his junk! How is that romantic?!

[@theghostinthemirror8158]

@@obiwankenobi9141 right? Like lol I get banter and whatever but that comment is just straight disgusting and not really charming at all. Not even in like, a lovable rogue way.

[@obiwankenobi9141]

@@theghostinthemirror8158, yeah, and I think lewd lines like that can be considered sexual harassment.

[@obiwankenobi9141]

@Brah well it was directed to Tauriel.

[@obiwankenobi9141]

@Brah I was talking about the line he says to Tauriel when he's locked up, the line being. "Aren't you going to search me? I could have anything down my trousers." which is a really gross line

[@p24p14]

"Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional." Hopefully sums up the feelings at the end of this fantastic video

[@Mercurio-Morat-Goes-Bughunting]

Growing up is only optional in the absence of proper rites of passage (not rights!) to *test* for both intellectual and emotional maturity of sufficient levels *before* the adulthood of the individual (and the freedoms and responsibilities which come with it) is vested upon the individual by the community. If being vested as an adult rests on no more than having an arbitrarily numbered birthday, almost no-one will grow up before they get hit by the vicissitudes of the intellectual-child's exploitation and the consequent regrets and resentments of middle age. And the so-called "karen" phenomena is the sad spectacle of this very western failing.

[@Serlina21343]

Not to be taken to seisously tho. We all grow up, being alive changes us and thats what growing up means. But ofcourse we can all try to remain Children at Heard metaphorical speaking

[@caittails]

“LOTR is so good it makes me angry” I never had words to express my feelings until today

[@reek4062]

Hahaha. The ''lotr'' movies are embarrassing and disrespectful.

[@user-qv2mc3dw5o]

@@reek4062 this is a 2-year old comment, also don’t just laugh at other peoples’ opinions- there are a lot of perfectly valid reasons why someone might like the lotr films beside their mixed level of accuracy to the book.

[@whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeee]

Sad that this video essay wasn't stretched out into 3 parts. Edit: LMAO you actually made it into 3 parts. This was so unexpected

[@Captain-Jinn]

What an unexpected journey

[@ismata3274]

there is a 3 rd of the 2 ......... indeed.

[@yukari_katsuragi]

The Increasingly Misnamed Lindsay Ellis Hobbit Analysis Duology

[@skullguy8504]

Were your expectations subverted?

[@lentoturmahub8214]

AlexMan *door is burst open* NOBODY EXPECTS- wait, wrong franchise. Sorry.

[@infamousempire8302]

The whole “faithful adaptation vs Lotr prequel” idea reminds me of how, according to *History of The Hobbit*, Tolkien attempted a full revision/retelling of the Hobbit in 1960 that would fit tonally with lotr and fix all the continuity mistakes, but abandoned it because it had lost all the charm of the original version.

[@LudmilaT.]

They should have followed his example

[@seanoflaherty]

Bilbo stealing the ring from Gollum is a retcon. In the first edition, Gollum gives up the ring voluntarily after losing the riddle contest. It was changed more than fifty years ago, so no one remembers.

[@samueldimmock694]

@@seanoflaherty And that fact is referenced in Lord of the Rings. But the point is probably that this was the only change.

[@squamish4244]

Even at 90 years old, Christoper Lee was still a boss. At least the bizarre Necromancer subplot allowed him another chance to shine as Saruman and reconnect with Peter Jackson before he passed away.

[@squamish4244]

It was in the Appendices of LOTR. Yes, they are canon, and yes, they were used to great effect to enrich certain narrative arcs in the LOTR films. But IMO there was too little to build like 45 minutes of The Hobbit movies out of with the Necromander, it's unevenly done, and anyway thematically it doesn't fit with the book's much lighter tone. Jackson tried too hard to connect The Hobbit to LOTR using the Necromancer scenes and I wish he had ignored it entirely. Then we could have easily gotten two, three-hour films, which is just about right.

[@escl4614]

While I personally completely agree with you regarding the plotlines of Dain and Azog as they take away from the mythos of Dain and changes the history of the world that I love, I have to disagree that they ruined the history in the movie. I hated it and was screaming "He's dead, dammit" inside my head the entire first film but it did not break the lore of the films. Azog lived in the films, and that's that, and Dain never had much to do with him. Events still transpired in the same way as in the books in regards to who was dead and alive when the last movie ended and Dain was lord of Erebor and the Iron Hills. I have to correct a few things though, it's never been stated why Dain was called Ironfoot, he chopped Azog's head of with a red axe (quite hard to come back from that one) by the eastern gate of Moria. His feet are not mentioned in any way that I am aware of. He's also the son of Nain, not Thrain, making him Thorin's second cousin (Nain and Thrain were cousins). So Thrain's dying or not at the battle had no impact on Dain's lordship over the Iron Hills as long as Nain still died in the battle.

[@mattblom3990]

Yeah, Lee gave this franchise his all.

[@JarthenGreenmeadow]

1/4 the series? Its like 150 pages...

[@Queef_Storm]

oh shit when did he die?

[@obiwankenobi9141]

Lindsay: Why does it hurt so much? Pete Jackson: Because it was real.

[@histhoryk2648]

and then rings of power got released...

[@obiwankenobi9141]

@@histhoryk2648 With it's complete and utter mediocrity

[@tevildo45]

The hobbits even worse than rings of power

[@Tallorian]

It's kinda funny that rings of power actually did more justice to Tolkien's dwarves with their side characters than the hobbit trilogy where dwarves were in the center of the story.

[@fernandounda3681]

zI hope you give a chance to How I 'Fixed' The Hobbit edit by Chris Hartwell he improves the vision so much and makes it enjoyable

[@SovietWomble]

Aaaaaand Lindsay has put up a new video. Everything I was previously doing is now no longer the priority.

[@LeonheartDelta]

SovietWomble Holy shit, Soviet's here!

[@mathieuleader8601]

Uncle Bulgaria definitely came from a communist country

[@kenkoopa7903]

SovietWomble What the fuck, I was not expecting this cross-pollination! Hot damn, Womble watches Lindsay Ellis! Best timeline, hands down.

[@Galaar]

Not who I was expecting to see when I started scrolling through comments either. Thought it was mistitled at first with the Mocking bird intro.

[@mjmanoni]

HOLY SHIT IT'S WOMBLE

[@creatorsremose]

"Gandalf she's married!" LOL damn I forgot how good these essays are!

[@Areanyusernamesleft]

I had to pause and go back several seconds because that line made me laugh so hard. :D

[@glykera]

@@fullobeans89 🤣🤣

[@merrittanimation7721]

“Now Gandalf, I heard about you and my wife sixty years ago-“

[@kimberleywhite1584]

"Bilbo's not a linebacker. He's a Hobbit. He's THE Hobbit." "MIGRAINE" Perfect advert timing...

[@crimsondynamo615]

If anything it wouldn’t push that Orc dude to the ground. It would be more like getting a tackle hug from a child.

[@spencerfalzy]

@@crimsondynamo615 I really wish he at least stabbed the bastard... makes no sense ugh. Or perhaps just get in front of him, to stall for time while the bad guy monologues...

[@Qeduhh365]

I loves this content. I do take serious issue with saying that Tolkien didn’t really care about Boromir. The fellowship and his family all mourn him multiple chapters, and Boromir is crucially important to understanding the power of the ring and the danger it represents. He cared very much about Boromir.

[@michaelaradas1343]

And he confesses to Aragorn that he tried to sieze the ring, which gives the reader evidence that the rings corrupting influence is really powerful.

[@isomeme]

@@Qeduhh365 , absolutely. In the books, the quick succession of Gandalf dying, Boromir dying, and the Fellowship breaking leaves the survivors under a crushing weight of despair. I get the strong sense that Aragorn quickly rallies Legolas and Gimli to rescue Merry and Pippin not because he is optimistic that they will succeed, but simply to give them a sense of purpose and a distraction from their sorrow. It's one of the many little signs we get that Aragorn is a gifted leader.

[@nts3208]

You know The Silmarillion is almost entirely ignored when I find an almost mint 1st edition on a dusty shelf of a giant used book store for 5 bucks in the middle of Detroit.

[@WasKE395]

excuse me fuck you. Awe I want that so bad.

[@lampostsamurai2518]

I believe that is known as a good loot roll.

[@nts3208]

@@WasKE395 hahaha, I mostly got lucky, but the price just means nobody bothered to check and see if it's worth anything.

[@nts3208]

@@lampostsamurai2518 Pretty much.

[@elizardbath]

John King?

[@carb0nxl]

37 minutes of really interesting analysis on The Hobbit and you captioned all of it? Bless your heart. Thank you. -a Deaf viewer

[@thehorseformerlywithoutana2522]

I like typing in the comments section. It makes me feel normal. -A Blind viewer

[@JordanSullivanadventures]

"that's....ugh...that's the ring wraith theme" *cries in nerd

[@amandarichardson4181]

Things mean things

[@ikeeek6214]

I actually liked that detail, despite not liking the movie overall, since I could see a parralel between Thorin and the Ring Wraiths, both were good once but corrupted by greed and lust for power. I thought it was a nice touch.

[@swishfish8858]

@@ikeeek6214 Shush, no liking anything about The Hobbit. Bad dog.

[@ikeeek6214]

@@swishfish8858 Awww, I'm sorry

[@benschmitt7035]

@@ikeeek6214 agreed, but it really didnt fit in that moment

[@Yardcourt]

I've honestly lost track how many times I've watched this docu-series. It's so well done and really illustrates how "just a movie" can have such massive real life consequences.

[@hankwicklund2182]

Orlando Bloom at 19:21 seems so disillusioned with the franchise that I actually feel sorry for him.

[@andrewherrera7735]

like watching an animal movie, it really doesn't care about the fact that it is there

[@yespls6260]

The dirty joke that follows onscreen afterwards also crushes my will to live

[@keithcostello1388]

yeah after the bridge collapse scene you cant help but feel sorry for the dude, they butchered his char

[@erfanmanouchehri7999]

Yes Pls what joke?

[@RoastyMyToasty]

But isn't that him during filming for LOTR? judging by his costume...

[@majinsole8554]

This dissection is fine, Lindsay. However, we feel it would be more...compelling? Yes- compelling. We feel it would be more compelling if you extended it out into 3 parts instead of 2 parts. ~_~

[@JamesMcGonigle]

Underrated comment.

[@JustNierninwa]

But have the third part be 75% a 10 line debate between 5 different possibilities but stretched out to basically a whole half hour. That'll work fine.

[@TheGuilkato]

oh and pander to China... we need their boxoffice

[@black_ccks6286]

holy shit son

[@litcrit1624]

It already feels like one simple idea pretending to be three

[@cortstar1120]

"Like, you know... things mean things!" I'm putting this in my next paper.

[@nathandrake5544]

The thesis of every literary analysis XD

[@lovelyyecats]

The montage of all of the things added to the Hobbit literally made me fall out of my chair laughing. The Galadriel & Gandalf hints were just SENDING ME.

[@TheActualCathal]

I'm just realising how long its been since you had Nella on your show. My how time flies.

[@maevechandler1941]

22:34 "Heat-resistant dwarves": this is actually canon. Here's a quote from the Silmarillion: "Last of all the eastern force to stand firm were the Dwarves of Belegost, and thus they won renown. For the Naugrim [dwarves] withstood fire more hardily than either Elves or Men, and it was their custom moreover to wear great masks in battle hideous to look upon; and these stood them in good stead against the dragons."

[@whythatspreposterous]

But still...

[@andrewherrera7735]

people criticized tolken for wasting his time on these books

[@goodaimshield1115]

There are amny things that were added to the Hobbit films that were neither in the book nor in the Silmarillion, but they were in some notes Tolkien wrote throughout the years. It really isn't that bad.

[@blacksheeprising9710]

The issue isn't that it isn't canon, the issue is that the scenes use the fire to create tension where there isn't any. If they can withstand the heat, why should we as the audience be worried about them?

[@TwelvetreeZ]

True, but that whole sequence at the end of the second film is still really dumb and bloated

[@Alice-we1wq]

Using the ring wraith theme for Thorin walking along a damn tree boiled my blood, I'm so glad I'm not the only one who got irked by that.

[@madcapmakov2]

It’s hurts more when it’s just a false crescendo to a non-climax. Azog and Thorin’s not gonna die, we got two movies left!

[@UmarAli-tq8pl]

I didn't mind that at all, people should stop naming some tracks because they were used for some guy. "Ringwraith theme". Imagine paying for/making a soundtrack just for people to get angry for reusing it for something else. This was one of the smallest problems in the trilogy.

[@the98themperoroftheholybri33]

@@UmarAli-tq8pl some themes are exclusive to certain scenarios or places, such as "the shire theme" plays an important part throughout lord of the rings, the further Frodo gets from the shire and closer to mount doom the theme gets weaker and weaker, the ring wraith theme is to signify some inescapable threat that has to be confronted, so it being played at the moment Thorin escaping doesn't fit at all.

[@UmarAli-tq8pl]

@@the98themperoroftheholybri33 I don't ever recall it being used for an escape? It was used when Thorin charged towards Azog who was an inescapable threat because of the dead end they were surrounded at.

[@travisc2668]

@@the98themperoroftheholybri33 Yea the way you describe it actually makes it seem like a good use of the theme. Thorin is aggressing towards Azog while the theme plays.

[@JustSomeDude42]

After rewatching the goblin town scenes, particularly the dwarves escape with Gandalf, I became convinced that the entire hobbit trilogy was just someone making a live action Lego game. A lot of the hijinks and methods the dwarves use and the situations they get put in (the rock Gandalf splits from the ceiling and rolls to crush rocks, the dwarves using the pole, and the warg chase earlier) just feel like a mini objective from Lego games.

[@samueldimmock694]

Well, they did make a LEGO video game based on the movies, so you might not be that wrong. I own that game and have never finished it for some reason.

[@JustSomeDude42]

@@samueldimmock694 I’d say don’t cause they never finished the series. I think they dropped it after the first movie.

[@samueldimmock694]

@@JustSomeDude42 Well, the first movie was the best, after all. But thanks for the advice.

[@MattEndahlbackup]

"Bilbo's not a linebacker. He's a hobbit. He's THE Hobbit." lol

[@culturevsman5024]

well what the hell is he supposed to do exactly...throw a carrot at him. the reason he tackles him is jackson's trying to show that he's really giving his all...... even though he knows he physically cant fight the Orc. He's sacrificing himself....for his friend. I didn't like that scene or those movies either..but this girl clearly hasn't read the books...hence you having her saying things like Tolkien didn't care about Boromir's character.......WTF???/ As well as slighting Tom Bombadil which is blasphemous cause his chapter was a masterpiece.

[@johnlampe3258]

But Sam is Rudy.

[@juliacassiano4499]

@@culturevsman5024 man I can promise you she has read them, no doubt about it.

[@larslundandersen7722]

@@culturevsman5024 The only reason why the scene is there, is because we need a climax and Jackson decided last minute, to split 2 movies into 3. So rather than getting a well thought out climax and Bilbo earning Thorins respect because of it, we got a generic action scene. It could have been SO MUCH BETTER, thats all Lindsey is saying. And dude, she has obviously read the Hobbit, don't be that guy. You have got to have better arguments than that

[@lopez.jacinto.6726]

@@larslundandersen7722 I think it was the studio who made the decision to make 3 instead of 2 movies. Jackson clearly didn't wanted to go through the stress of making a trilogy again.

[@allisonfitzmaurice6948]

“That’s the Ringwraith theme.” HOWARD SHORE HOW COULD YOU LET THEM DO THAT 😭

[@matthewsawczyn6592]

"A wizard should know BETTER!"

[@bruh2843]

@@matthewsawczyn6592 omgg yes this comment is perfect 😭

[@Reflexzzzz]

@@matthewsawczyn6592 The fact that this immediately pulls me into that scene and voice acting speaks volumes. This comment resonated

[@John_Smith.]

Unfortunately I don't know if he got to decide where to put all the music. But yes, that was a poor choice.

[@melodymiller8268]

This moment felt like Sideways, and I love it.

[@WhistlingFerret]

3:36 "Why does it hurt so much?" "Because it wasn't in the book, Tauriel."

[@newbiechu7024]

Because you're not supposed to be in this story Tauriel.

[@epicveve]

Because you're just here to bring some romance that nobody asked for and nobody needed into this movie, Tauriel.

[@elaineryanartist]

This is great but 20:42 - 21:50 "Gandalf she's married" comment had me almost crying from holding in my laughter while trying to be politely quiet. I am really enjoying this

[@DarkExcalibur42]

The fact that I cried at the line "Of course you are! And I'm coming with you" in a video where you were intentionally jokingly re-enacting a scene from the Lord of the Rings proves just how powerful and moving it was that even its reflections are stirring.

[@cabronmalisimo]

Things mean things, I fell that in my throat too...

[@greenergrass4060]

I actually cried for real. Oh the power of friendship

[@TheNoonish]

It's the fucking perfect musical cue. It's well established early on as the Shire/Hobbit theme. It disappears completely as the characters leave the Shire and lose their sheltered existence. Then at the very moment Frodo has to leave everything and go on his quest alone, that music comes back with Sam, and Frodo is able to take a little piece of home with him on his journey. You don't process those thoughts in the context of the film, but you don't have to because the musical cue brings it back for you. And it doesn't have to explicitly say what it's doing because you understand, even if you're not thinking about it.

[@mayflyforyou]

It is so perfect and I can't not cry when I watch that scene.

[@jjsanchez2]

Actually choked up - Thank you!

[@NyndjaYT]

"Things mean things" best line in the review XD

[@engvidAlex]

Spot on about The Fellowship of the Ring. It was pitch perfect and an incredible achievement, especially as an adaptation. They cut out SO MUCH from the book, but it all made sense and created a flawless streamlined Lord of the Rings experience.

[@chooseymomschoose]

I think Lindsay nailed something here. You can't go home again. I know many people just a slight bit younger than me who LOVE the Rings trilogy. I saw the first movie, in the theater, only a few years after reading through the trilogy and the Hobbit. I was underwhelmed. Lots of helicopter shots. Lots of belabored acting. Lots of obnoxious soundtrack. It left me cold and annoyed. And when I heard that the same crew was tackling the Hobbit, I knew exactly what would happen. It became a bloated, clamoring mess that the original plot could not sustain.

[@Serai3]

And yet the purist whining was intense. Where was Tom Bombadil? What about about Crickhollow? WHAT THE HELL, ARWEN??? These movies have gotten their share of dumbass outrage every step of the way. It's been embarrassing, frankly.

[@bennettfender1546]

Serai3 yeah Tolkien purist are the worst.

[@SuperThumpasaurus]

I still think they should make a Tom Bombadil movie.

[@limnovae7692]

Why are you talking about helicopter shots like they're inherently inappropriate for LoTR? The landscape shots are magnificent, and absolutely essential for the sense of scale the films provide.

[@TheNefastor]

OK, when I saw Spock sing about Bilbo, for a moment I thought I was on drugs. Then I remember I don't do drugs. Then I thought, "yeah but maybe I'm on a drug that makes me forget I take drugs". Then my brain crashed, rebooted and I continued watching.

[@blankblank2370]

Yeah those were the drugs talking.

[@rootbeer4888]

You should prolly try drugs.

[@goodpeopleoftheworldunite]

Yeah, it wasn't a great film was it. 😐

[@LightSourceTemple]

I'm on drugs

[@francisnicolas1819]

If I remember correctly, Tolkien actually mentioned in the Silmarillion that dwarves are more resistant to fire than any other of the races of Middle-earth. Still doesn't make up for the ending for Desolation of Smaug

[@LightsolP]

Aule, the creator of the dwarves, actually created them to oppose the evil of Morgoth, and it specifically says he made them hardy for that purpose.

[@robaerto71]

..and imagine how powerful it would have been if they had used to build more tension by burning their clothes but letting the dwarves endure the threat! I still can not believe how messed up "The Hobbit" was!

[@francisnicolas1819]

@@robaerto71 Yeah that would've been pretty bad-ass actually

[@ianholcombe18]

correct, they had to bring in Dwarves to fight Glaurung during the Nirnaeth Arnoediad

[@mygoldenwitch]

@@robaerto71 Damn, that would actually have been neat. They could even have had a moment where some of the dwarves bodily shield Bilbo, because they may be somewhat fire-resistant but Bilbo's little hobbit body is getting flambéed. Sigh. So much wasted potential.

[@g.s.651]

Christopher Lee and Ian McKellen... if nothing else can be appreciated about this trio of movies, it's getting to see those two on screen. Christopher Lee passing two years after the last hobbit movie came out is just so sad to me, but I respect the hell out of what he brought to this fantasy universe and how much care he showed for his fans. Rest in Peace, man. You were a legend.

[@billyweed835]

On the subject of Atticus, I think half of the reason so many people liked him is because...Consider when the book came out. 1960. Smack dab in the middle of the Civil Rights era. Speaking as someone who lives in the South, we've always been kinda..apart from the rest of the country. Ever since the days of Thomas Jefferson, The South has been very deliberately "macho" and distinctly "old-fashioned". The South's identity has been distinguished from The North mainly on the fact that, in The North, wealthy elites took the form of "uncouth" grimy city-slicker businessmen, whereas the archetypal Southern Elite, is the Plantation Owner. A well-spoken conservative in a suit, who used the trappings of "good manners" and "family values" to mask his true evil. "Southern Politeness" was, in a sense, set-up as a contrast to the "uncouthness" of the North, (See: The classical "Rude New Yorker" stereotype), but it was also a defense mechanism. A way to mask the ugliness going on just out-of-frame. This gave The South a weird fetish for stuff like "chivalry" and "good form", being as polite as possible so as to make people ignore the whole "owning humans as property" thing. After the Civil War, that attitude took a big hit, as you can see in the works of Mark Twain, which are pretty much all about him trying to reconcile his deep love of the Pre-Antebellum South with his hatred of Slavery, but it remained, as you can see in stuff like The KKK's hierarchical trappings and fancy titles, or Gone WIth The Wind, which is very much a nostalgic throwback to that era. However, if the end of Slavery, the moment the ugliness of the American South became too much to ignore, hurt Southern Chivalry, the end of segregation killed it. Again, The South had been judged by the rest of the nation, and come up lacking, on the wrong side of history once more. I love The South, but I won't deny, Racism is, if not the core of the Southern identity, a big chunk. With Black people's social mobility no longer restricted by legally-sanctioned discrimination, Southern White Men were forced to face facts: They weren't superior to anyone. and if they weren't, what was their place in this new world? Then, along came Atticus. Atticus presented, to many white men in The South, as being their ideal. A man who embodied everything good about The South - Polite, well-spoken, chivalrous - but not a Racist. He was, in a sense, the Southern Man: Version 2.0. A way to keep the parts of the "Old South" that remained, while ditching the bad. When he turned out to be a Racist, people were shocked. Reading things written by native Southerners about Go Set A Watchmen, there's this deep sense of betrayal. He was their idol, their ideal of masculinity. The idea that he was secretly a monster this whole time...Just didn't compute. I've heard it compared to the ways lot of Black people felt after Cosby's allegations came to light, particularly ones who grew in the 80s, for whom he was their first depiction of someone like them being portrayed as an well-off intelligent family man. Just this deep pervading sense of betrayal by someone who had shaped their cultural image.

[@meikoblock]

Billy, I hope you go on to be a great scholar this analysis is too good for KZbin

[@billyweed835]

Aw, thank!

[@Elleraiser]

hi i'm from the south and i'm crying a little from how good this is

[@Samtember]

Thanks for taking the time to write this :) This is good internet

[@ericemanwu]

Billy Weed this comment deserves a video essay around it!

[@dillon8124]

I was so entranced by your "Go set a watchman" rant I completly forgot I clicked on a hobbit video, gave me whiplash when you brought it up again.

[@michaelm5518]

This review explains why Lindsay is one of the best on KZbin. She constantly demonstrates extensive research in both the subject matter and the films, and she lets those factors drive the discussion while still being entertaining enough to sit through 45 minutes.

[@Minam0]

This. I can rewatch her videos countless times and never get bored.

[@Ryan-yp4fc]

Not going to lie, I definitely shed a tear when Nella ran out

[@JoJo09453]

One of the most beautiful moments in youtube history :')

[@jodiethemathgenius9204]

same

[@DomhnallOfZena]

i have literally no idea who she is but i still cried

[@ManoscraftGamers]

she is the perfect Sam

[@klauzJamfield]

Me too, and I already knew something like this was coming

[@zerosysko]

"Gandalf, she's married..." LOL Yeah, the whole Gandalf/Galadriel vibe was...really weird.

[@akechijubeimitsuhide]

Like... did they forget Celeborn existed? I know he's like the Lepidus of Middle Earth but come on.

[@domianwolfe5754]

I mean they don't really show a huge amount of affection for each other in the lotr trilogy, though (they barely get any screen time together which is obviously another reason why). But I always kind of thought that Galadriel and her husband were together because they were powerful and super old elves, like a kind of arranged marriage almost. At least in my mind I thought that way and it made the Galadriel/Gandalf affection cute to me, especially since we know it doesn't lead anywhere anyway so it's just harmless flirting to me

[@Mer.Saloon]

In the Silmarillion, a whole passage is dedicated to their love for each other. So yeah, as someone who read the Silmarillion, the Gandalf/Galadriel thing was super awkward.

[@domianwolfe5754]

Ohhh I didn't know that! I can definitely see it being awkward then haha

[@torcoAaAa]

but not unhot

[@lexusforrester1976]

i feel like the hobbit would work really well as a series, with its episodic nature

[@nmd1120]

Agreed! I've actually been working on a fan-edit that turns the trilogy into several episodes (around 45 mins each)

[@a_bagle]

@@nmd1120 Sounds interesting. Where can I find it when they are complete?

[@nmd1120]

@@a_bagle not sure yet, I'm hoping to be done with them by next fall/winter. I'll post a trailer on my channel with the info once I figure it out and I'm ready!

[@a_bagle]

@@nmd1120 Thx

[@ramseykeilani9569]

Maybe like an 8-episode miniseries, each episode being about 30 mins? 1) Dinner at Bilbo's he joins the company 2) Trolls 3) Rivendell 4) Misty Mountains 5) Spiders, capture, barrels 6) Laketown, meeting Smaug 7) Death of Smaug, arrival of the relevant armies 8) Battle of 5 armies, denouement Collectively it's about 4 hrs of screen time, which feels about right, and each episode is itself a somewhat self contained story (though maybe ep 7 is a bit clunky, but that's inevitable for any episode that's mostly about setting things up for the finale) As for episode names, just use selected chapters of the book (though it wont be 1:1 since the book has 19 chapters many of which can be easily pushed together for an 8 episode series) An Unexpected Party, Roast Mutton, A Short Rest, Riddles in the Dark, Flies and Spiders, On the Doorstep, Fire and Water, The Clouds Burst, in that order

[@lokuzt]

the part with Sir Christopher Lee made me sad as well. RIP

[@daltonbedore8396]

René Jiménez same, what a waste of truly good talent and intent

[@Woesteinvuir]

It's so weird - I knew Nella was with you in New Zealand from your twitter, and I knew from previously left comments that I'd be seeing her at the end of this video. And yet... the moment she appeared... God it hit me, and it made realise how much I (and the many weird nerds who grew up with Channel Awesome and "matured" into youtube video essays) owe to you guys, and especially you Lindsey. You've helped shape my understanding of media, rejuvenated and validated my interest in films, and generally remained an *exceptionally* calm and insightful voice on all things cultural and cinematic. Thanks for doing what you do.

[@fossilfighters101]

Yes. This. Well said.

[@ChickenGeorgeClooney]

God, seeing Nella in a video again really takes me back. I love your analyses(?) but your comedic videos are still great too.

[@luukrawks]

Omg that ending at the airport. I know it's supposed to be a comedic bit, but that almost got me legit teary eyed. I can't watch anything with that hobbit theme without feeling the emotional weight behind the score.

[@WTFisTingispingis]

God I needed this. It's been like a wound that won't heal since these movies came out. Ugh, this is cathartic. Thanks Dr. Ellis.

[@luminousghosts]

That describes it so well!! Maybe consider checking out the 5 part 'Why the Hobbit sucked' videos on KZbin because they helped heal that wound for me too. I think I just 'liked' the movies out of obligation when they came out, and there are good things, but something was always off and these videos just help realise why it feels that way :)

[@phil5037]

Another channel did several more videos called “Why the Hobbit trilogy sucks”. It tackles the writing problems and I liked his videos better; he’s less forgiving. I think the channel was JustWrite.

[@arozeisarozie]

SpottedleafKitty What you said! Gahhhh, I was dying inside when all of my friends were praising the films and didn’t understand the anger that filled me, lol. Those vids eased the pain.

[@alecmontesano7272]

You had me so enthralled when you were talking about the Harper lee situation I completely forgot I had clicked on a video about the hobbit

[@ingaman]

You should make this a 3 parter instead of 2. You'd get more views and it wouldn't be too difficult to add a few more choreographed action sequences.

[@MrAllallalla]

ingaman she's not gonna repeat the movie's mistake, you snake!

[@arozeisarozie]

I’m dying. 😂

[@maheeraymaan305]

I've got good news for you buddy.

[@KT-xb1sh]

This made me laugh lol. Especially the part about bilbo rushing an orc like a linebacker. He’s not a linebacker he’s a hobbit (chuckles through a short commercial) he’s the hobbit lmao 😂

[@robinisomaa]

"Part 1/2"? EVERYTHING HAS TO BE A TRILOGY!

[@thiccboss4780]

*counting fingers* b-but..........wait

[@rickpgriffin]

It'd be funny if she suddenly tacked on a part three at the end

[@ingonyama70]

shhh. you'll give away the surprise.

[@thiccboss4780]

her lotr trilogy review was a 4 parter so maybe

[@jaysillynx3190]

Can't wait for part 3/2!

[@guyr3618]

"Go back, Nella! I'm going to New Zealand alone!" "Of course you are! And I'm coming with you!" OH MY GOD THAT WAS THE BEST ENDING IN THE HISTORY OF KZbin! GOD BLESS YOU LINDSAY!

[@Chozo_hybrid]

I wonder if she actually is coming here?

[@lotus-prince]

Already has. There was a clip posted on KZbin of Nella running through the area Bilbo started in, saying "I'm going on an adventure!"

[@VicViper]

Lindsay's expression: "Eh, might as well."

[@megamage911]

Ngl, I kinda got a bit teary eyed over that... Didn't help with the choice of music...

[@TheEarlofZerces]

And then that one random Asian guy who's just looking on like "WTF?"

[@thereefshark]

First one: Bored Second: Went out of obligation Third: Didn't see in theaters. I followed the same path, Lindsay.

[@TheThoerlChannel]

My experience with literally every single one: In the theater: WHOA BOY THIS SHIT'S EPIC Months later at home: Huh, actually kinda bad

[@NShimaru]

Same path here, really couldn't be bothered for the 3rd one.

[@sophiebirch1672]

Saw the first one on DVD. Bored as hell. Didn't bother with the next two.

[@bewilderbeastie8899]

Saw the first one, was so desperate for Middle Earth again I felt good. Saw the second one and wanted to kill myself, it was so bad and full of holes I could easily pick apart. I saw the third and was just bored, the only thing of any interest was Bagginshield, I'm not ashamed to say that.

[@ibahart3771]

I think a lot of us did.

[@ArchieRatsworth]

The ending made my eyes water, just from how well you played the emotion of a pure and loyal friend. Thank you.

[@mobiuskatchmar2094]

This is one of the few channels that make me drop everything and watch the new video.

[@GrandAngel8000]

Mobius Katchmar XANA ...

[@michael_swardh]

The music from the nazguls at that time, is if they played Imperial March during the medal scene in A New Hope...

[@aev1588]

Nah more like if the darth Vader theme is played with kylo ren

[@RubyBlueUwU]

Yeah like at least one could shit out some meaning behind the Imperial March playing there like it’s to juxtapose Vader and Luke and how they’re intrinsically linked and the whole “you’re destined to be like your father” undercurrent but this? This doesn’t even make any vague theoretical sense

[@madcapmakov2]

Or Palpatine’s theme playing when Snoke tortures Rey in TLJ at the time when Disney/Lucasfilm and the creative team not knew the death of Snoke and that missing a core villain would require the next film to bring the Emper-oh wait...

[@justinwilliams5253]

Except shes kinda wrong, that wasnt strictly "the nazgul theme". It plays in the opening of fellowship/LOTR. (Last alliance, Battle of Dagorlad) No nazgul there. And pretty sure at other times in the trilogy where there arnt nazgul present. But i do still agree for the most part, You cant just throw it anywhere.

[@madcapmakov2]

Justin Williams But it’s still a bad use for a scene that’s basically an anti-climax like Thorin and the made Up villain got two more films to go before they do officially clash.

[@moonmelodies8974]

Am I the only one who gets a weirdly comforting vibe from this video? like, i frequently come back to this on rainy days lol

[@thylionheart]

I’m coming back to this during my lunch break at work after having rewatched it and its two sequels at work only a month ago

[@jewelcloud836]

This series and hbomberguys sherlock video are comfort videos for me

[@LightSourceTemple]

The Hobbit is a book I come back to on rainy days

[@martynkal.1248]

Literally watching this video for comfort (I've got a migraine) during a downpour!

[@gotsax0286]

it's very dense which gives it great rewatch value.

[@beckiejbrown]

I don't know what it is, but there is something about these video essays that's like comfort food. I just put them on and tune out (after watching several times intricately of course). I love them.

[@jacquig1939]

Orlando looks SOO over it in that is it 2 or 3 clip

[@v4v819]

Orlando hijacked the film, and even he grew bored, fast...

[@MusaTariq25]

19:21 is the time stamp for any interested

[@kunstkt]

Kind of unrelated, but I see that same attitude/fatigue in all actors when TV shows go on for too long. It broke my heart when the acting in later seasons of Scrubs took on this "let's just get it over with" quality :(

[@piero914]

Unfortunately for all of us, he wasn't over those checks.

[@ZiddersRooFurry]

@@piero914 As if you'd turn down a paycheck like his.

[@msjkramey]

Who else is waiting for the next video to be titled "part 2/3" as a slap in the face to the fact that they switched it from two movies to three

[@harrietamidala1691]

That's probably the plan.

[@santacruznp]

I’m here for this!

[@santacruznp]

The production on this is so good! Great job Lindsey!!!

[@overlookers]

*b 0 i*

[@KingBobXVI]

Haha, that would be great - except then she'd have to mix up the ordering and ruin the show to make it authentic :P

[@thegoblonoid]

"the Lord of the Rings: The fellowship of the Rings is so good it makes me angry". I love you.

[@caioferreira117]

Did anybody else got as emotional as I got by Lindsay's "I'm going to NZ alone"? A short scene but still gave me chills and made me smile and cry. Wasn't expecting that, but I loved it.

[@megatronVS]

Eww, why did you have to remind me of Legolas running up the falling rocks?

[@altareggo]

lolol yes that was EPIC in its awful cheesiness.

[@im19ice3]

i wish i didn't relate

[@noahfortner2]

It’s-a me, Legolas!

[@silvertheelf]

You mean Legolas pretending he’s Super Mario.

[@blackstarwing3332]

The cheese! Is oozing!

[@koroconnell]

AAAAAAAHHHH NELLAAAAAAA!! OK THIS REVIEW WAS 12 TIMES more emotionally satisfying than the Hobbit films

[@jaw4ever422]

THAT ENDING!!!

[@nathanialmynameisajoke]

...but you can say that about almost anything.

[@DGilVids]

And the review isn't even over yet!

[@Carewolf]

Though I wonder if the questionable acting by Lindsay was on purpose there or Nella is just so much more into the role :D

[@annkathr]

Eh, ending wasn't drawn out enough. Should have been at least 15 minutes of crying, hugging and fade out shots. Unsubscribed

[@RevolverLink]

Congratulations to you and your team on your Hugo nomination, Lindsay!

[@mlovecraftr]

+

[@YourOwnFunProductions]

+

[@randombrokeperson]

What were they nommed for?

[@mlovecraftr]

@@randombrokeperson They were nominated for these videos, The Hobbit "Duology"

[@mylittledashie7419]

Okay, can I just say, it is a fucking testament to how goddamn good the LOTR trilogy was, that your little skit at the end recreating Sam and Frodo heading to Mordor *actually* made me tear up. A fucking joke recreation was still enough to hit me in my emotion zone. 10 points.

[@NadiaDanielle21]

I literally came to the comments to say the EXACT SAME THING, sitting here sniffling away 😂

[@jd7507]

Also made me tear up cause I loved their dynamic years ago when they part of the "Nostalgia Chick" also that Lindsay and Nella are still friends.

[@lavenderlavender3952]

Hobbit Film Fans: "NOOO, THE NECROMANCER WAS ALWAYS SUPPOSED TO BE SAURON!!¡! Tolkien: "lol I just needed Gandalf to fuck off"

[@ryancorrell6895]

hate to say it but The Necromancer is Sauron. The Hobbit was originally not part of the larger mythos, but Tolkien would sort of work backwards and changed a lot of The Hobbit after writing the Lord of the Rings to make it all fit together. Though Tolkien used the Necromancer as a plot device so Gandalf could fuck off (and also create the sense of Gandalf's greater importance beyond the Thorin mission), it was indeed later revealed by Tolkien himself that the Necromancer was indeed Sauron. This change was not added to The Hobbit text though, but had been noted by the man himself several times, first in the appendices found in The Return of the King, as well as in letters he wrote to others when delving into the details of Middle Earth.

[@Tarkus_H]

@@ryancorrell6895 My memory might be mistaken, but in the Fellowship book, Gandalf revealed at the council of Elrond that the Necromancer was Sauron, didn't he?

[@chungbertflabbergast5995]

@@Tarkus_H You are correct! Sauron being the Necromancer is, indeed, revealed during Fellowship. However, I believe the point is more that this was not Tolkien's original intent when writing The Hobbit, not that it wasn't originating with Tolkien at all. Whether that distinction is relevant is, I suppose, a matter of opinion.

[@ryancorrell6895]

@@Tarkus_H sounds legit. I know he mentioned it in at least two places so the OP was mistaken

[@Its2EZbaby]

Yikes... sounds like someone needs to reread the books.. because in this case, the Hobbit film fans are the right ones lmao. Tolkein might’ve needed a reason for Gandalf to leave, but this developed into the necromancer actually being Sauron. That is a literal plot point for lotr lore. It’s an indisputable fact, and just shows that lotr film fanboys just like to beat up on the hobbit films and jump on the bandwagon lollll. This comment is embarrassing

[@ryanrobotham7696]

I often joke that the visuals were mostly bad because they blew half the budget on Smaug, but from what I hear about the behind the scenes stuff, it's not that far from the truth.

[@Morhek]

*Why did Billy Connolly need to be CGI*

[@Fantallana]

Ryan Robotham *looks at the gorgeous theatrical Smaug poster on my wall* ...... ......... .............”worth it”

[@carrottoponcrak]

If you watch all the behind the scenes you realize how great these movies turned out. Three years of pre-production went down the drain when Guillermo stepped down. Peter had no story boards for any of it, unfinished scripts and the only time he stopped production was when he started to film the third movie, only to realize he couldn't do it. He asked the producers and the studio to give him some extra prep time for the third one which he got. He pretty much did the whole movie on the fly which is craziness but without Peter's previous experience of making low-budget movies he said he would've failed immediately. I'm surprised these movies turned out coherent at all

[@Morhek]

Heh, An Unexpected Journey is still a hill I'm willing to die on, I saw that movie three times in theatre and was happy to buy the DVD, whatever problems it had. The only movie I've seen more in theatre was Pacific Rim. I have a poster from it on my wardrobe door. It's just a shame about the rest of the trilogy.

[@nn6404]

Tbh, since most of the visuals except Smaug are redundant, that was a good choice.

[@brianpendell6085]

That line .. "If wizards and elves could .. procreate?" Wait just a minute. Didn't that happen in the Silmarrillion? Wizards are Maia, and the Maia Melian married the Elvish Thingol. Luthien was their child.

[@AdrianParsons]

I thought the Istari were seperate from the Maia.

[@kimveie8405]

No the istari is Maiar

[@carlosvalois8966]

Ok, so... This... is actually surprisingly not THAT complex, at least for LOTR standards; basically the Istari are Maia incarnated in "human" forms, sent from Valinor with their power reduced. Why exactly it is reduced can only be speculated, as Tolkien never really adressed the whole thing with too much detail, but the most accepted theory (at least from what I've seen online) is that they did this so in case one of them fell like Sauron did (cough cough, Saruman) there wouldn't be any need for yet another case of divine intervention to deal with the imense power that might have come from it.

[@Ysckemia]

maybe Cate Blanchett never read the Silmarillion.

[@TallisKeeton]

@@carlosvalois8966 beside this reason, the maiar were incarnated in human form as old men becouse their main focus should be to serve as counselors and help the free ppl mostly with their wisdom and not with their power of magic or power or sword.

[@stephenchurch1784]

The fleshed out Boromir and the way Aragorn responded to it also allowed Aragorn to step into his role without the "hey everyone, Aragorn is this book's Jesus stand in" exposition from the book

[@thanoseid2883]

i honestly prefer movie Aragorn to book Aragorn. maybe because they fleshed out his story.

[@Pineappolis]

@@thanoseid2883 Me too... sort of. Tolkien's prose is so damn glorious that you really buy into his descriptions, especially if you read them young. I remember thinking Prince Imrahil was an awesome character but could I tell you one damn thing he said or did (besides be in the vanguard of the sally forth onto the Pelennor Fields, which, fair play but so were a lot of other people)? No, but Tolkien's words _are_ spell-binding. If they'd adapted Tolkien's Aragorn straight onto film without fleshing him out and without being cloaked in the images Tolkien could paint with words (contrast with that shambles of a metaphor), there'd have been nothing to him, while Jackson and co.'s Aragorn is every bit as memorable a character as Sam, the real beating heart of the novel, and Viggo Mortensen's portrayal of him is _staggeringly_ brilliant.