Linguistically Reviewing BAD English in Kpop Songs

[@madynyembwe6173]

My favorite is “if you wanna pretty. Every wanna pretty” it makes so much sense to me

[@CrystaICupid]

this whole time I thought it was "if you wanna pretty. everyone pretty" as in "If you wanna be pretty. Everyone is Pretty" 😭

[@SilverSeaOT7]

I personally know a linguistics professor. They would agree with you 100%. This supposed “bad English” happens with US artists as well. I like to say that all performers are simply artistically communicating.

[@choujimi]

That’s a good way to look at it! Honestly, I think music should be one of the places where any rules about language are off limits, just to see how much people can do to express an idea in different ways

[@stephanieb5120]

I linked this to a friend of mine and she said she wanted to see you apply this level of analysis to Eurovision songs lol

[@choujimi]

Hahaha I actually haven’t heard that many Eurovision songs, but I’ll definitely look into them!

[@isabellerogers7678]

This provides such a great perspective and it deserves more views! Thanks for bringing your linguistics experience! i'm fascinated by the current conversations about "bad english" in kpop because they often ignore the complexity of the linguistic dominance of English, and then the other side: that only the producer/songwriter seems to decide the grammar of the English used in the song. As a big fan of (g)idle, Minnie and Yuqi are quite fluent in English but the final, ungrammatical choice on "my bag" seemed to be with Soyeon, which felt sort of lazy to me at first.. but i can see how she's expressing her attitude and her style of English. There is a lot of joy in these new phrases that come out of the linguistic collision between Korean and English - even if there is discomfort in the global dominance of English.

[@xex872]

Dang! this was a very good video, i like that you took these instances seriously and gave a thoughtful view instead of mocking and moving on. I was expecting a full on Soyeon roast but i was willing to watch anyway and accept a difference of opinion even though it pains me me to see my girl get mocked on a daily (im a Neverland btw) But being new to kpop i also never minded and accepted real quick that this could be kpops standard to English lyrics. I was listening to Japanese music before i got into kpop and one of my favorite bands ALI uses English a lot and they too have incorrect grammar and a different pronunciation but i never minded. plus seeing how small the fandom was, not a lot of people had discussions about it so. However in kpop fandoms these discussions are really huge and it kinda made me feel bad for even being a stan of these groups or the songs themselves. Plus i really felt uncomfortable making fun of their pronunciations too, so im glad at least one ktuber shares that sentiment.

[@choujimi]

Thank you so much! I’m a big fan of gidle too, and yeah it’s always kind of bothered me how comfortable people can be about making fun of a non-native english speaker’s pronunciation or grammar. I know they most likely aren’t making the jokes with bad intentions, but it does run the risk of contributing to a type of linguistic discrimination Even though I study linguistics and grammar, I think one of my favorite parts about kpop is the so-called “bad english” lines. I think it adds a lot to the songs, especially when it comes to g-idle! Soyeon is a producer writing lyrics for a song in a language that isn’t native to her. That in itself is wildly impressive and worthy of respect I haven’t looked into jpop/japanese music much, but I’ll have to look into ALI! I just listened to “lost in paradise”, and I’m pretty hooked so far haha - Thanks for the recommendation, and thank you for commenting! 😁

[@naomi.nomenon]

My take on Soyeon’s English lyricism is that it doesn’t sound like something a native English speaker would say. I think that’s what leads a lot of people to call it “bad English.” But I also don’t think she’s trying to make it sound like native English. It seems to me that she’s kind of leaning into the unconventional grammar because she knows the language well enough to play around with it and give it her own style. “Native-sounding” doesn’t necessarily have to be the goal for second language learners in general. I actually think it’s super cool when soyeon breaks grammar conventions in a way that I (native English speaker) would never think to because she comes at it from a completely different perspective. I guess it’s “bad” at passing as written by a native English speaker, but I also don’t think that’s her goal and that’s part of the fun.

[@naomi.nomenon]

I’ll be honest though, I’m still not the hugest fan of “you gon finna catch me” especially since a good number of people misuse finna as it is

[@joethesmith2175]

3:17 I think “it” here means the thing in her bag? And this was a nice video, thanks!

[@Me_Pandora]

isn't *it* the _red five diamonds_ tho? I was confused about this in the analysis.

[@joethesmith2175]

@@Me_Pandora that makes sense! I wasn’t sure because the phrasing made it seem like we didn’t already know what was in there.

[@kurokurt5477]

as someone who learned english myself i can say that half of these dont seme weard at all + art is art, if the gangster rap scene in my county would try to say every word the right way, i wouldnt listen because street slang is an thing

[@christa7834]

Loved this video! Your thoughts are so well organized and argued and backed up that I really appreciated hearing them, even though I didn't agree with all of them. In fact, maybe I'll wake up one day and decide, "Dang, Choujimi was right after all." Subscribed!

[@choujimi]

Thank you!! And probably not haha - I'm definitely not right all of the time, or even most of the time

[@ahgwsn]

i looooved this video!! it was super interesting

[@JustNoone....]

I think you took the sentence from eunchae out of context, maybe she actually said "We're gonna keep keep breaking rules, gon' give up?" or smth like that...

[@stream-5star]

it's "we're gonna kick it break it rules gon give up" i think he got the words right but i dont think its as confusing as he thinks. its just personification, like the rules are giving up trying to stop them. idk thats what i think

[@no_one.43]

I think in 'you gon' finna' catch me' Lisa is trying to say 'you gonna find and catch me'

[@tommyfebruary_666]

yeah but finna means going to,

[@YannisHalliwell]

i think at 4:30 they mean to say "rules, i'm gonna give up"

[@bbbookworm02]

as a fellow linguistics major (specifically applied linguistics aka second language studies), this message is approved 💜✨💅🏾

[@heyalexisleigh]

the only one that’s ever stuck out to me is bts idol RM sings the line “I never gon' trade Trade off” and it just always sounds silly to me even tho i do know what he means

[@bojomendoza]

the lyric “you make me feel me good” sounds sexual like this kdkkdkd

[@mariix69]

i love how i can like turn off my understanding of english since my first language is spanish, so i dont notice these weird phrases unless im actually paying attention to it :33

[@CarlaIrene]

I'm late here but for the Rocket Punch song, which I've never actually heard so I don't have any context for it, if "awesome boy" is someone they're addressing, then awesome boy, don't stop could be a command that's independent of the first clause

[@nublock5000]

Loved this!! I hate to say it, but I'm a recovering grammar fascist. My mother (a former teacher) drilled "proper" grammar and spelling into me throughout my youth, and subsequently I was quite elitist about any perceived shortcomings in others' writing. Thankfully, I took a linguistics minor during undergrad that completely shifted my perspective on language and how it is used. I've had a couple decades to unpack that intergenerational trauma. Now, I scold my mother for being snobby about it.

[@stream-5star]

huh i never even considered "rules gon give up" as weird wording or grammatically incorrect. it's just personification... le sserafim is so rebellious that the rules are going to give up, as in they won't function anymore,, rules can't restrain them.

[@Blinerss]

I think Zior Park and Soyeon use English in their music in very similar ways and I love both! Def recommend checking out Zior if you haven't already!

[@rosefulmadness]

doesn't eunchae say "rules gon give a-", like I always thought it was one of those lines where it cuts before a swear word

[@head_.intheclouds]

been thinking about studying linguistics for a while now and happened to stumble over your video! i loved it so much?? but in case you read this, would you recommend studying linguistics?

[@choujimi]

@@head_.intheclouds Yeah I would definitely recommend it if it’s something you find valuable / want to learn more about! If you’re talking about studying it at a university-level, I will say most universities offer minor degrees in linguistics (along with additional obtainable certifications while you’re getting the degree) if it’s not the main thing you want to study while you’re there. It’s a pretty universal subject, though! Linguistics is important is almost every field of work, so no matter what else you choose to pursue, studies in linguistics will always be beneficial in some ways!

[@yanetquesada2165]

Im sorry but i cant listen to a song with bad grammer. I doubt it takes much effort to find someone who speaks english well enough to verify the lyrics.

[@luckavolejnikova1392]

Having preferences is fine. I prefer artists to stay within the grammar rules of the language because it's more creative and harder and more interesting, but there's this thing called artistic license, and as we can see it with Soyeon, it's not about not having an English speaker to verify the lyrics, it's simply about what sounds better to her, and often about what's more unconventional and artistic.