Linus Addresses the HexOS Backlash

[@TTYLIG]

I love when I watch a perfectly normal LTT video and then a few days later see a random wan show clip addressing some bs controversy.

[@Luka_Pix]

This is so damn true 😂

[@YodielandInhabitant710]

Perfectly normal video with perfectly normal criticism followed up by a condescending fallacy-filled "don't like it don't buy it" copefest video dismissing every single valid point with "uhhh you're dumb and broke".

[@NoNot-g7i]

​@@YodielandInhabitant710you need to go outside. None of this affects you

[@usersample8491]

@@YodielandInhabitant710 your comment reminds me of the dead internet theory, dumb bots everywhere acting like humans.

[@red9350]

@@YodielandInhabitant710 perfect, then configure your home nas manually, lil genius! 🥰🥰

[@realdripmeister]

I wish there was a KZbin filter to automatically block any comment about “being this early” or anything that wrote about how quick/early they caught the video

[@nocturn9x]

same lmao

[@HughJaeness]

Including those who complain about such things. Just ignore it goober.

[@Guitartube25]

2024, anyone?

[@201bob]

@@HughJaeness If you ignore a problem, The problem grows. Everyone ignored bots, And bots became a massive, massive issue on KZbin. Ignoring a problem is for idiots.

[@shapelessed]

@@HughJaeness I see redbull washed out all of your remaining brain cells. Instead of attacking people for complaining (which you just did) maybe do what you told them to do (ignore them), huh?

[@teyrns]

the hard cut to linus wearing the rgb fur coat was so good. i almost don't want to watch the original WAN show because out of context this is hilarious

[@TAMAMO-VIRUS]

Yeah, caught me by surprise. I kind of want it though, even though I'll never wear it XD

[@zalyster]

When you skip a cutscene in game and have no idea what's happening lol

[@the_undead]

Honestly, I would strongly recommend watching that wan show or the clip where they talk about the RGB fur coat because it is genuinely hilarious and Linus was thoroughly unimpressed with how much effort went into it

[@bobowon5450]

the backlash is mostly from people who seem to think literally every product is made for them. Sometimes not everything has mass appeal and that's fine. I could absolutely see a use case for hex os, but i'm not going to swap my qnap out for a hex os machine because the qnap is fine for my needs and already set up, doesn't mean i'm going to say hex os is bad.

[@oliverfern8039]

​@@zante2542 you got to sprinkle in some more proper nouns in there bro. I can't tell who you are talking about

[@bobowon5450]

@@zante2542 your comment is literally incoherent.

[@Droahh]

@@zante2542 Your writing is very hard to understand... It's not clear

[@BooleanDev]

@@zante2542bro its not a personal attack, just edit your comment to be more clear. No one knows what you mean

[@Martmists]

Honestly if it supported more apps and had a lower price I'd probably buy it, but as it is now it's too limited and too expensive.

[@mabbott093]

This "controversy" is a big nothing burger. I saw the original video and thought it was cool knowing I was not going to buy it because I have been happy with my Synology NAS for two years. Just wait until the features meet your needs to buy it or don't buy it at all. Same thing as buying or not buying an early access game.

[@Avruthlelbh]

This. People get so angry at a product existing that is for an audience that isn't them and them alone, and I'll never understand that. "How DARE water wings exist! I'm an Olympic swimmer and don't need something like this! What do you mean children exist? I don't care!"

[@Maplaplaplapla]

How anyone can end up after watching that video, NOT under the impression that it's early beta and comes with plenty of asterisks at this point, is far beyond my comprehension of how basement-dweller brains work.

[@Maplaplaplapla]

I remember buying Minecraft back when it cost 9,99, alpha times. That ended up being a decent investment

[@Koldav]

Same opinion here. Most of the people complaining are the ones who are not even considering it buying even if it comes out of beta. Why complain on a product that's not for you? My expectation is the same they talked about at the end. When 1.0 comes out, offline mode, and lifetime license, then I will pay $300. They won't get my $100 while in beta, because I don't like burning money on unsure things, but I know what software costs, and for a lifetime license I would pay the full price.

[@Gamerboi99]

Yup. This is why I (fairly recently) finally bought into S(cam)tar Citizen. Not because of all their promised "special sauce" crap that is years(decades) from being an actual thing, not because of all the promised ships, but because the game, as it exists, is very fun (when it works). IMHO, if they stopped developing all their future promised crap, fixed the game as is, and tuned the servers to be able to handle 500+ people at once, it would be an amazing game. It is what Starfield should have been, with fully realized planets, instead of infinite squares of nothing. Unfortunately, with the scope creep being literally infinite at this point, I suspect it will be after my lifetime before it even gets close, if it doesn't just get dropped at some point. The only games even close to it are Elite Dangerous and No Man's Sky (at least, while being multiplayer). Elite has gone a direction I didn't like, and NMS, while a lot of fun, still shows its somewhat clunky roots a lot of the time. Don't buy stuff based on future promises, but don't hesitate to buy things that do what you want NOW, even if the future stuff might be better.

[@xGaLoSx]

I sometimes can't stand this community. The whole holier than thou attitude from people in this space is exhausting.

[@NoNot-g7i]

It really comes down to the fact that LTT should stop acknowledging these small handfuls of viewers who grandstand and think they should have a say in what the company does. Ignore them and they'll slowly fade away because they're not getting the attention they crave

[@Sheila_Chu]

its so tiring. Like if its "so much easier and better to use TrueNAS" THEN JUST GO USE IT!!! Not everyone knows or WANTS to know how, they just want something easy and simple! And that includes me, i bought a license frame 1 cause this appeals to me immensely AND im getting it for cheaper now than later, win win for me!

[@chosone2]

@@NoNot-g7i Personally I like seeing things being addressed because it contributes to the LTT's reputation of transparency. Besides, it's extra content for WAN show and increases the visibility of HexOS even further. Just as long as LTT actually stick to their guns and don't cave to the naysayers

[@jeffreyjadav9493]

@@chosone2 i absolutely agree. I think LTT is a good role model for all future potential CEOs and small businesses coming into the world. I see this content is good. I do believe it will affect people to develop and mature.

[@cappyo]

How dare people have opinions

[@aldozampatti]

I just found out about HexOS from this clip and went to watch the full video... I'm buying it RIGHT NOW, I have a TrueNAS and it's working well, but updating that machine (it's several years old now) is being put on the backburner because I have zero willingness to configure it again. This is what I want/need as an IT professional who doesn't want to support something else at home :)

[@jooroth18]

Exactly. I bought it on the Black Friday sale as what he demoed in that video is all I want too. I've set up NAS software like TrueNas and the amount of head banging I've had to do just getting it working not just for me, but for my tech illiterate family has been frustrating. I just want something simple, but don't want Synology.

[@Huskiefluff]

@@jooroth18 I bought it because i've always wanted a NAS, but dont feel like generating another project for my ADHD brain to only halfway set up. A couple mins later i have a NAS running for backups. Thats all I care about.

[@cqwickedwake7651]

@@Huskiefluff Then free alternative that they intentionaly left out called CasaOS is for you

[@cqwickedwake7651]

Well you just need to learn how to use google my dude, one simple google search of CasaOS would have saved you 300 soy bucks soyboy

[@matokuroi240]

if you are an IT professional how can it take more then 30 min ?

[@pascalwiery7129]

I get HexOS. I dont know anything about networking, i dont know anything about the usual NAS software (true NAS, etc). I consider building a NAS some time in future and a simple to use OS would be the only thing acceptable to me, i dont have time to learn complex software like true NAS.

[@HajheerForoutan]

you have other options though, you can get a synology or qnap which is way easier than truenas, the downside is if you need a large nas with a lot of horsepower. it gets expensive, but for a small 2 to 4 bay nas, they are affordable and easy to use (compared to truenas). It boils down to what hexos looks like as a finished product and I'll keep my judgement until then but just wanted you to know there are options

[@ZexMaxwell]

​@@HajheerForoutan when were these options available? when i was talking to a friend, she was saying truNAS and unRAID were the only options at the time. unless my google fu failed me about a year ago, i had no idea these existed. regardless, I have some IT networking and data management experience, but I wasn't ready for what unRAID threw at me. i still have some projects in my backlog for how complicated they got. for @pascalwiery7129, I am with you. when i was looking around, I wanted some hand-holding when making my NAS. so I see HEXOS' value. as for the strange backlash, I dont think its really warranted.

[@pascalwiery7129]

@@HajheerForoutan Yeah, im aware. Im in no rush to get a NAS, i'll take a closer look at the options whenever im actually gonna do it.

[@ALMOOSTASHAR]

Yeah, I have Synology NAS, I got the cheapest one just because I didn't know if I actually need it, and doubting that I'll need anything past sharing files in my local network. Thankfully it delivered and was great, but turns out I'm relying so much on it and it made life easy, but I do want more, my problem was that the alternatives are just too difficult and I just can't be bothered, I won't get HexOS now, but it is on my radar, maybe in a year or 2 when I do need to upgrade it'll have all the features and ease of use I look for, and go for it.

[@nandishhiremath1439]

yes I just want a cheep alternative that I can install on some old laptop and stick a big SSD in to create a file storage device. the software is perfect for me who just want a simple thing, I feel you bro.

[@MaximumSponge]

It seems like every WAN show these days is just Luke and Linus having to explain videos to the people who just don't get it. lol

[@zeighy]

Sounds about right. No matter how much they say "maybe this isn't for you, and that's fine" they still want to get offended that it is in fact NOT made for them. They want it to be made for them. But, that's not the point... and for some reason they don't want to take a no for an answer.

[@RaiokIncaris]

This is a very underrated comment and is why I usually ignore almost every comment on their videos.

[@Varadiio]

@@zeighy Who is "they"? Why are you attacking "they" like a bunch of knuckledraggers? I don't even care what this product is anymore. Clearly it's not worth researching because it makes everyone rude and disagreeable.

[@michaelcorcoran8768]

I mean if their own audience doesn't get it whose fault is that?

[@Extremexboxplayer]

​@Varadiio if you take that out of this then you're the they and the problem who we're all laughing at.

[@jortand]

I hated this conversation watching it during the WAN show, and its kind of funny how easily Linus can be pulled/baited into such dumb conversations since he is trying to be as open and honest as possible, because it's literally just arguing with people who think this type of product has to be made specifically for them even tho they already know how to set up everything in something like TrueNAS and therefor only see this as an expensive skin. Like no dude it's not made for you if you already have a NAS set up exactly how you want, it's made for newcomers or people that just want a simpler setup experience that's the entire product pitch.

[@Avruthlelbh]

Him not engaging in these dumb conversations is what caused GN to turn his audience on LTT, treating them like some supervillain just cause they weren't hyper-open to criticism.

[@TTYLIG]

This is unfortunately the cost of trying to be as transparent, communicative and responsible with your community as possible, every now and then you have to deal with stuff no reasonable person should be mad about because if you don’t at least address these kinds of controversies and try to explain yourself or why the audience is overreacting then LMG will just get more backlash from these users and it’ll harm the promise they’re trying to uphold with the community. It sucks and seeing these kinds of “controversies” irritates me but sometimes for the best solutions you have to account for the lowest common denominator

[@jortand]

@@TTYLIG True I understand that even if in the moment I have to ask myself how someone doesn't understand the point the first time. It annoys me endlessly that it seems every WAN show nowadays contains at least one of these, but with an audience this big you really have to run as slow as the slowest person to get everyone on board.

[@fyrnabrwyrda]

Dude is the king of getting one guy'd 20 people make a post and he's convinced the whole world hates him.

[@real-raiden-ei]

I am not sure if honest, transparent and Linus goes together lol

[@alexcrouse]

I honestly had zero issues with this video. The software is cool as heck, and really helps with the vocab and permissions required to make Linux based systems work - and are massive gatekept by jerks online. Would have made by TrueNAS system way easier to setup.

[@FlameSoulis]

The software isn't for me, but I'm glad it exists so there are more options for other people.

[@utubeb14]

I think a major part of it is introductory price FOMO.

[@tikki1411]

i think its exacerbated since the video dropped during the black friday (cyber monday?) sale, where it's 66% off the "non-sale, full launch" price

[@judgesh]

Especially since they’re saying $100 here when it’s $300 retail. A $300 “lifetime” license that is only for a single server is enormous cost

[@mademedothis424]

It was a bad launch strategy for something like this. It's hard to sell "it's unfinished" but also "it's going to be 3x more expensive, buy NOW!" for a thing that requires building a system, rather than being just a game or a Kickstarter. The FOMO-y launch clashes with the early access review. They may have received less backlash without the early bird discount, especially since it was so brief and framed in that Black Friday Window. Just from a go-to-market strategy perspective it was clumsy.

[@alexwolfeboy]

I commented on the original - the way I see this, it's a convince tax.Yes, if you have good technical knowledge, HexOS is probably a terrible investment for you if we're being honest.This is for your non-techy uncle, cousin, parent, or sibling, who has a vague technical knowledge but not enough to setup any linux distro on their own. We already do this - there are free tools to extract the GPS metadata from GoPro video using a command line, and use FFMPEG to add layers and data back in ... but nobody but extreme nerds want to do that, so I, like many, bought the $300 third-party software that does all of this via a pretty GUI.

[@sunderkeenin]

yeah I support backup applications and this seems like an incredible workflow for simple local backup and networked storage in the making and/or a great tool for someone technical to be lazy for a reasonable price.

[@duckyishappy]

It’s still not even simple enough for someone “vaguely techy” it’s literally for a in my opinion a super small group of people who could setup something like truenas but couldn’t be bothered. Making it more straightforward at a price might actually make that group want to do it.

[@alexwolfeboy]

@@duckyishappy In the demo he showed of setting it up, it looked fairly beginner friendly, maybe slightly more hand-holding with creating a network share, but the setup was decently guided with reasonable defaults, with it looking fairly easy to get a network folder share up. Main thing it's missing that I saw was apps, I can def envision myself being called out to setup something or another until that's up to snuff.

[@Trevellian]

It's for tech people as well. If a NAS is operating properly, the configuration may not need to be touched for a year at a time, often longer. Having to re-teach ourselves every year has a cost. If not in money, in time. How much is your time worth? For most tech workers, it's worth more than what is being charged here.

[@frykauf]

Actually very good example. You COULD just run ffmpeg or mpv to play/transcode your videos. So why are there all these video players and tools that are often literally just a pretty layer and features on mpv/ffmpeg. Yeah ppl just want to open and play a video not have a multi hour adventure with configuring software. At the same time ppl just need to store data somewhere right now, most don't want to have an adventure

[@kevinbarnard3502]

Valid points or not, some people will complain about something because there is an opportunity for them to engage in an activity they, apparently, enjoy: complaining.

[@Avruthlelbh]

80% of complaints received at supermarkets and other businesses have shown to come from just 20% of customers. They show up, make a complaint about whatever, leave, return, make another complaint, repeat. The remaining 80% of customers just buy their stuff and leave, unless something significant comes up.

[@MikeVideos327]

​@@Avruthlelbh 100% of change comes from people speaking up. Imagine the power going out and not contacting the power company because "surely someone is working on this and they must have been notified" If a complaint is valid then its just a part of the human experience.

[@Robert-iu2ou]

@@MikeVideos327two things can be true at once: people like to complain, and complaining can be useful. Is it useful to complain that an advertisement/notice of investment is talking about the future of the company?

[@Varadiio]

@@MikeVideos327 "someone else is ok with overpaying so your complaining is invalid"

[@AAstebs]

I’m techy not TruNAS techy. I’m thrilled to have a way to get into it with an easy interface. It was worth a 99 buck gamble.

[@dimon22323]

> When LMG Clips became so long that its time to introduce timestamps for them instead of WAN show

[@MangoPanic]

I was really close to buying HexOS because it sounds great, but when I found out CasaOS is a similar thing with a literal one line install, I decided to try that instead. Honestly my biggest issue with HexOS is the $300 price point (when it's aimed at home users + no free trial) and the fact that it's cloud based. I wouldn't mind paying if I was assured that even if the company goes down I could still use the software, but it's a lot of trust to put into a company that is brand new. And from what I've seen, the local dashboard is gonna be limited in terms of its feature set.

[@partlyawesome]

Wow, thanks for mentioning that alternative, definitely going to look into that!

[@redroyal4287]

They mentioned in the original video that its only cloud based for now, and that you can do it local in the future. But that is a "future promise" that you'd be paying for.

[@bvoyelr]

I am running HexOS on my first ever NAS. Took me longer to harvest hard drives to actually get enough to make a useful NAS than it did to 1) install it, 2) configure it with some storage folders, and 3) install and configure Plex. Just looking over TrueNAS and Plex documentation, they immediately dove into crap I don't feel like dealing with -- app pools and "run as" users and the like, and from what I understand, most NAS's are a bit of a nightmare with regard to ACLs and permission. Frankly, the only additional feature I want is to be able to self host the web admin UI. So yeah, no complaints from me regarding your presentation. You listed the selling points, and those selling points were exactly what I wanted, and the selling points were REAL. It was easy for me to configure it!

[@cqwickedwake7651]

Same for me with CasaOS it installs by copying and pasting a command that downloads and unpacks it, hardest part is using your left arm to CTRL + C and CTRL + V in the terminal

[@matokuroi240]

it takes 3 cliks to buy a harddrive/ssd what are you talking about ?

[@johngaltline9933]

Sounds like an unraid install 5 years ago. What's the big deal?

[@johnkornet3728]

14:33 1) pressured to buy now for significantly reduced price. 2) doesn't believe it would be a worthwile product without a promised future feature. So it's a $100 gamble to either save $200 or get useless software. I'm not a hater on the product, I just think saying that with your whole chest isn't a good look.

[@Varadiio]

Yea that's a very FOMO strategy. If there's one thing I will absolutely take a dump on, it's FOMO. I've bought enough garbage that I'll never use, TYVM.

[@somefreshbread]

Who is pressuring you? You get a reduced product at a reduced price or you pay full price for the full product.

[@johnkornet3728]

@somefreshbread beta/early access isn't paying for a reduced product. It's paying for an incomplete product with the promise to complete it later. The price isn't lower cause there's less features; it's reduced to drum up initial interest and generate an early cashflow. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but LMG has taken a hard stance against such practices almost unilaterally in the past.

[@damianh4510]

There is no pressure dude... Just don't buy it then.

[@TheOchita]

@14:35 "And then it will whatever the price will be when that happens" I don't have a NAS don't don't plan it, but it almost feels like I would be stupid not to buy it right now, who knows what the price will be in the future.😅

[@aaro_n]

The price should be $99 until it's out of beta

[@johngaltline9933]

Nah, it should be free for 30 days like it's paid competitors and $99 after that, well out of beta. At free to try and a hundred bucks to keep, it makes sense over taking an hour to learn how to use something else.

[@PLxFTW]

As someone interested in having a home NAS setup but I have zero interest or patience for dealing with quirks, hex os is right up my alley and what I am looking for.

[@WhyitJellyDonut]

Unraid exists now and has lots of support aswell though.

[@HajheerForoutan]

If you're new to this I would actually suggest getting a synology or qnap for your first nas (you get dedicated hardware and software that is much easier to use than a truenas. You pay more if you need a huge nas but a 2 bay nas is typically cheaper than $300), or at the very least wait for the reviews of hexos after the official launch cause at the moment, i guarantee there will be a lot more "quirks" as you put it in hexos than in anything else.

[@bobsemple9341]

​@@WhyitJellyDonutthis ain't about you. Who asked u?

[@Bob_Smith19]

HexOs is not for you. Fact is no matter what NAS you choose you’re going to learn the OS and deal w/ its quirks. If you want one that’s easy to use out of the box then buy Synology. It flat out works, has a lot of documentation and there’s a lot of community support. You do not want to use a beta OS if have no interest in learning.

[@AstoundingAmelia]

​@@HajheerForoutanbut those usually require you to buy the hardware too, I mean this is perfect for me because I just want to buy a raspberry pi and put some drives with it or some other arm system and just put an OS on it and use it

[@JaredFarnum]

I have made this purchase at the discount price of $99. I do believe the 30 days should at-least start when the Release version 1 is released and Not the Beta. Also Id like to see a free Buddy Backup Only license with the full license purchase. This is so that when no one in my family is interested, they may still be willing to host a backup without the purchase of another full license.

[@l0gic23]

If it was like this I would have purchased... Maybe even 3 licenses... Probably would have shared the video with others... But....

[@zeighy]

@@l0gic23 well, buddy backup isn't there yet... maybe when it comes out, they might actually sell that kind of license... I personally would like it for exactly the same purpose of just throwing a "dumb" machine at someone's house in their basement or closet as a remote target.

[@coctailrob]

I initially thought that the $300 price was a bit steep, however for a home user if this means you can avoid having to pay someone to set it up and to make alterations it could actually save you money in the long run.

[@Genesis8934]

(~) 2:05 The alternatives comment... IDC about. I don't see how someone COULD make that argument when: a) Linus disclosed the investment; and, b) that disclosure set an expectation that this is basically a sponsored/promotional video, not a traditional "This is a neat/educational thing" video. Maybe it could've been clearer in the script, IDK. The gist of the outrage is the amount of FOMO being peddled on the Black Friday sale for it when it's clearly a beta. (Also a more puzzling development is why did they even bother implementing a cloud login if they are saying it'll be locally accessible like TrueNAS.) My thoughts are it's not for me. I want to run TrueNAS because of homelab stuff and getting experience in more IT systems. I think/hope that HexOS can be used on a potentially future Framework DIY NAS as it would be hella cool if you had a prebuilt NAS (ie: Synology) that could run a bare OS like TrueNAS or HexOS. big edit: 11:03 TECHNICALLY, (and I'm not a lawyer) if you get wind of anything illegal that an employee stores on their NAS, and you're doing buddy backup for "LMG Company Cloud Storage," you MIGHT be liable for it. edit 2: 25:54 to be honest, buddy backup seems like the kind of service that WOULD become a paid feature at some point. It seems the most innovative and sustainable. IDK what a subscription for it would look like in terms of features though.

[@nocturn9x]

the cloud login is probably because they want to charge for the basic reverse proxy/dynamic DNS that would be required to access the server form the internet. I don't particularly hate this idea, especially given that not a lot of people have the knowledge to set those up and some people can't physically do that because their ISP doesn't provide them with a static, public IP address

[@Genesis8934]

@@nocturn9x That's fair, I suppose. Though it'd be nice to have it be an option you can enable (default off).

[@NickBosshard]

My guess is that the cloud dashboard is so they can update it without pushing another OS update to the user.

[@nocturn9x]

@@Genesis8934 oh yes, definitely. It has to be opt in, not opt out. My keenetic router does something similar called KeenDNS, where if you enable it they'll provide you with a 4th level domain out of their main domain to access your router's admin panel from anywhere, and it's free forever. Something like this, but paid for would make sense. Keenetic is just built different lolol

[@dorferino]

The buddy backup will have a subscription if you want to back-up to the cloud instead of a friend. I guess someone could buy a perpetual license and use your own vps if they charge too much though? But realistically the subscription would be for the same type of people buying the os who want cloud backups.

[@joebob2311productions]

I'd like to see a build log of Luke when he does decide to build the NAS. And a pretty thorough one

[@Marc.Google]

💯

[@timduncan6750]

Yes. Hope they do this.

[@OllAxe]

13:34 For context, a retail license for Windows 11 Home is $140, Pro is $200. For an operating system targeting consumers, $300 is expensive. With all due respect, you're making a strawman argument by saying consumers would prefer a subscription model. Other than that, I have no strong feelings towards HexOS or your involvement with them.

[@brainlessdude]

I mean saying "Dont buy it if you dont like paying for a beta test" is a bit easy. Especially when Linus is an Investor in it. It is a valid point and a valid risk. Linus used his Plattform to promote something not ready at all with a financial interest in it getting bought. I would have loved a more mature discussion about this point instead of "Dont buy it".

[@GKEnder]

Would you rather he pointed a gun at the camera and tried to threaten you into buying it? Would you rather he not have mentioned not to buy it if you don’t like paying for a beta, thus missing an opportunity to highlight for his audience that doing so is inherently risky?

[@filiflo]

I think he did go into it when talking with luke about the price. But I think that if I want a live service product, paying 10€/month seems fairer to the dev than paying 300€ per machine

[@MrTsolar]

To be honest, most consumer software is endlessly beta these days.

[@Studio23Media]

THEN DON'T BUY IT. 🤡🤡🤡

[@griff2470]

This is absolutely a nitpick, but SteamOS is a distinct OS from Arch in the same way a Windows Server and it's consumer equivalent or MacOS and FreeBSD are distinct OSs. It doesn't really run on top of Arch, it just utilizes some of the same tooling to create a separate distro in the same ecosystem. This is differs from how HexOS is, where it (at least to my understanding) runs in an off the shelf TrueNAS install. Nitpicks aside, when talking about products that are intrinsically linked with a bundled OS, you start getting into the breakdown of the definition of operating systems broadly. What's encompassed in an OS outside of the Kernel gets vague very quick. Most people will agree your display managers (desktop gui), system control panels, and system shell are part of an operating system, but at the same time they all are just applications that aren't necessarily OS specific. The best comparison to HexOS I can think of is Red Hat's cockpit, and, while I wouldn't consider Cockpit to be an OS in and of itself, it is a part of modern RHEL and RHEL forks that I do consider operating systems. I personally didn't find calling HexOS an operating system to be confusing or unreasonable, but I can see how more "OS purists" might take issue.

[@janrappe]

Also, I assume that SteamOS will be free when they make it availabe for the public (but I don't know that), which would invalidate the argument that you could compare SteamOS to HexOS. Because SteamOS would be a (free) skin of Arch Linux whereas HexOS would be a $300 skin of TrueNAS and I think that's what the whole point of the discussion was. I also like your argument though

[@pepijn_m]

I didn't have a problem with the video. But talking about your responses: I don't like the "don't buy it now for future promises" but at the same time there was a black Friday deal for ONLY NOW FOR $99 and then only $199 till the end of the beta and then $299. for all the don't preorder/don't buy for future promises the deal was setup on their site/in your video to buy it without having to much time to think about it(30 days back can be a hassle and I don't know this new company) or to know if it's something for you. I was even thinking of buying it just so I know that I had it and I know its's still affordable instead of when I would need it(no clue if I ever gonna host a server) it's like that amazon black Friday deal that goes in the closest till whenever. sure it's a me problem where sales tactics want me to buy it now that I know it's cheap. But it feels like you guys skipped that part mostly in the video.(Luke mentions it at 11:40 ) it reminds me of crowedfund video's which I know it wasn't meant to be.

[@e3xp0]

You said it yourself; Its a you problem. Entirely not their duty to address it

[@bobsemple9341]

Broky problems

[@manuelsputnik]

Flash discounts are kind of scummy for sure.

[@e3xp0]

@@manuelsputnik I completely agree yet every single company, "good" or evil, does this exact practise

[@Varadiio]

@@e3xp0 If you're ok with a LMG telling people not to buy into other products earlier with FOMO, but then telling you to buy into the product they infested in, that's fine. The rest of us smell double-standards.

[@Circl3s]

My biggest gripe with it was the premise of "Look at this cheap NAS we built for only $69! Now just pay $300 to make it look nicer! Too much to pay? If you buy this heavily unfinished, WIP product with barely any functionality to be honest RIGHT NOW it's 3 times cheaper. Still not happy? Then you can wait for a subscription version, even though the whole intro of the video was about how bad subscriptions are." Opening sales while the product is barely a product and threatening with a price hike of 300% on launch just feels plain dirty.

[@red9350]

Yeah? Have a look at Tesla then 🥰🥰

[@kramelbbiw]

It's the human FOMO - ironically, there would be no pushback if there wasn't that massive discount and it was 300 now... but there'd also be much lower sales now. People are weird 👍

[@Amphibax]

Its a special deal for early adopters thats nothing new, you add new features your software gets more expensive

[@SerGlushko]

My only problem with the video was the structure. It was like: Look, we're building a cheap home NAS from an old PC! Look, we're setting up a noob-friendly server! And, oh, by the way, this makes that cheap nas SIX TIMES more expensive. I feel like at least the ballpark of the final price had to be mentioned a lot earlier in the video, or the "nice price" thing should've been dropped entirely. The hardware and the software price difference made everything before the pricing feel misleading, no matter how awesome the product may actually be.

[@MartGameFails]

The nice price thing is actually a nice price, stop being such a free loader

[@Studio23Media]

@@MartGameFailsNot when there are free options. Don't pitch it as a cheap home NAS option when there's a $300 software license. You pay for the convenience and ease of use.

[@imakethesites3048]

14:00 lifetime means one of the following: "until the company rescinds the license, stops releasing security updates, or you move on to the next computer"

[@TheFirestormable]

0:53 Fashion jumpscare!

[@mattvisaggio]

It's already up to $199? You mentioned beta access at $100 in this video I thought at 11:40

[@Chaosweaver667]

That was the sale they had for 4 days only. It's now $199 for Early Access and $299 when it releases.

[@GameCyborgCh]

99$ was the black friday/cyber monday price

[@mattvisaggio]

@@Chaosweaver667 gotcha thanks

[@GeneralNickles]

Im totally on board with what HexOS is trying to be and trying to do. I personally have neither the desire, time, nor patience to learn how to use TrueNAS to any degree of effectiveness. So if I want a NAS, then I need pretty much exactly what HexOS is purporting to be. That price though... I have to ask, would they rather sell a thousand copies at $300 each, or a million copies at $100 each? Because if they simply keep the price where it is right now *permanently,* I think the entire thing will end up being infinitely more successful. $300 is a lot to ask of an average PC user these days. Hell, $100 is a pretty decent ask. People simply don't have the money to throw around like that. If you just keep the price where it is, you'll sell a lot more copies.

[@l0gic23]

Agree

[@ghostbaleada]

Agree i was following this since it was announced but the price hurts. $300 is half of what I earn in a month

[@cqwickedwake7651]

See you think that you want HexOS because linus said so, if you had your own head to think you would google for alternatives and realize how CasaOS has even better UI and is as simple to install as copying and pasting a line of text into a terminal. You need HexOS because you watched Linuses video, did no research and bought into it straight. It is called being a sheep

[@ciarangale4738]

@@ghostbaleada brother how are you living on less than 8000 dollars a year. at that point you cant afford a computer, let alone a nas or convenience software

[@johngaltline9933]

Right there with you, the price for what you get makes no sense to me. You get the same functionality with a basic unraid install and with an hour of googling on a free truenas install. At $300 the market is left to people that don't know any better, or that know far better, knowing exactly what is involved to set up a basic truenas or unraid install and who's time is actually worth more than the trouble and have the money to drop.

[@ineedyoutostop]

I didn't know there was drama about this, I don't think the situation here is a huge deal and it looks like a fine option, but damn I still think Linus is awful at addressing problems and unintentinoally uses a ton of fallacies in his arguments. For example, comparing this to "macOS is based on Unix" is an AWFUL point and he should know that. It just feels like he's really bad at understanding points being made when it's against what he believes, and then when he tries to argue against them it's never really done well. It's not just with this HexOS stuff.

[@DarthChrisJ]

People will do drama about anything these days!

[@jordondax]

Outraged over the dumbest things man I wish I had the energy you folks have.

[@SimonBauer7]

its the subreddit, people being cringe crybabies.

[@manuelsputnik]

Linus is terrible at arguing with commenters. He gets heated and tries to do one liner gotchas. He falls for bait too much.

[@someoneelse1550]

Just because it's a fallacy doesn't mean it's wrong. (The fallacy fallacy) MacOS being UNIX compliant does not take away the status of MacOS as an Apple proprietary operating system. That's the point here. Also if he doesn't have stupid conversations like this one, people blame him for not being transparent. (Gamer's Nexus) It is what it is, that's the cost of trying to be as transparent as possible.

[@alexcrouse]

My TrueNAS system has 18TB free. I'd love buddy backup as an option.

[@davidg5898]

...until you discover that your buddy has been storing questionable stuff on your NAS when (a) the cops/FBI show up at your door and take your NAS and you away in cuffs, or (b) you get a subpoena to hand over your NAS because a copyright troll company caught him torrenting.

[@alexcrouse]

@davidg5898 neither is a worry of mine.

[@AstoundingAmelia]

​@@davidg5898legally that's not likely to happen because it would be encrypted in such a way that you yourself cannot access it and therefore cannot hand over that data, It also would be kind of useless because it's a mirror image which means that if he deletes something from his system it's gone there too

[@Yesat-Erday]

One thing that was not fun on the price was that the launch price was just for 4 days.

[@l0gic23]

Agree... Did not like the fake urgency to make a decision or the price doubles and later triples. If they gave more time and info I might have bought a few licenses. Bad taste left... I also didnt like that I would need to make this a priority to determine if I wanted my money back. Wish they would have more info posted and offer the $100 price...

[@tjarsun]

Agreed. That's what I truly disliked: "Buy now or lose this one in a lifetime deal" tactics

[@Spielix]

@@l0gic23 From the video it seems like the startup got enough cash from those few days and therefore keeping the deal up for longer just would have lost them a bunch of money.

[@Spielix]

@@l0gic23 How is it fake urgency when the price is up now? This criticism is normally aimed at online shops that will *not* actually increase the price when the time is up.

[@Varadiio]

@@Spielix "lost them money" those shipping costs, amirite?

[@Slazerith]

The HexOs video must've completely slipped my inbox, because this is the first time I heard about it... That said, I gotta wonder how long this praise comes before the next 'When Lifetime doesn't mean lifetime' video. $300 for a lifetime use sounds great, even though its a hefty chunk of change for most people. However, the norm seems to be 'Lifetime' being 3-5 years before we launch a completely new app with the same name but non of the old licenses working.

[@Chaosweaver667]

That assumes the company is still around in five years.

[@TheAsjdj]

Personally I bought hexos because of how easy the interface and setup is plus I can still go into truenas if I need to. I still believe in community support in terms of paying for it to support a product. Yes it’s a gamble, but that’s the risk I am personally fine with. I am looking forward to see what will come.

[@GottZ]

that feel when "buddy backup" is literally rclone with crypt and ssh layers and linus implying this feature is only available subscription based..

[@aaron57422]

I think he's mostly complaining that it's only available "easily" as subscription based. If you have enough technical knowledge you can set something up for free, but most people don't.

[@apenasgabreu]

Through out the entire video I was just thinking "Why would I use this costly thing over UmbrelOS or CasaOS, both of them being free?" I haven't find the answer yet.

[@ОсликИа-я2ы]

Especially considering CasaOS states explicit support for Raspberry Pi while HexOS states 2 cores, 8 GB of RAM, and 16 GB of storage and runs only on an x86 CPU.

[@hoofhearted4]

There doesn't have to be a reason for you. Its a pretty simple concept really.

[@cubertuber780]

From where I stand HexOS aims to be for the "Click, click, done" people. Both CasaOS and UmbrelOS have a sleek looking interface but I can already see some killers for the "Click, Click, Done" people. CasaOS: Is installed on top of an existing OS via Shell command. This means the individual thinking of setting up their NAS first needs to figure out a suitable base OS, how to work the terminal (which some may not like/want). So that kicks CasaOS from the selection (or they may get frustrated during the process). UmbrelOS: They have a sleek (Apple feeling) site design, which would certainly appeal to the "Click, Click" people but from there it gets quite unclear where someone has to go to get the OS itself. Going on the UmbrelOS subpage itself talks a lot about the OS and what it can do, offers you to purchase a pre-installed box with it. However, unless I'm blind, I didn't see any link/button to a setup guide / download link for where to just get the OS itself. I did find it on Github, but I'd say once someone lands on Github they might just jump ship (if they even get there). With that in mind HexOS doesn't link to an install guide right on their home page either (I suspect you get instructions after paying and being accepted into the beta). So I can't evaluate their setup path. But both CasaOS and UmbrelOS seem to expect a certain knowledge basis for Linux (or for you to know where to get the setup files). And from the guided installation (at least from LTT's video) it's more of a "don't worry, we'll do a lot of the setup for you" kinda deal. Which speaks exactly to the people who don't want to think about what it does, what it uses. As long as it works.

[@GeneralNickles]

The answer is pretty simple. I mean literally. That's the answer. It's simple. The fact that you couldn't figure that out is proof that you are not the type of person this product is designed for.

[@ghostbaleada]

And if I want a nas just a vm with OMV

[@HajheerForoutan]

My biggest issue with HexOS was pricing, aside from the push to buy discounted right now which is always scummy specially for an unfinished product (and I can't excuse it since both Linus and Luke are against it in principal but all of a sudden with this product, "it's just not for you" or "just don't buy it" which is hypocritical), the bigger issue for me is they are competing with Unraid which is established and Unraid's lifetime license is 50 cheaper, so you really need to have a justification for it being worth that much more, and I just don't see it. At this point with what I've seen from HexOS, it just can't compete even if they deliver on all the promises. But we'll see how it goes.

[@bobsemple9341]

Maybe it's just our ur price bracket? It's not for you

[@HajheerForoutan]

@@bobsemple9341 oh it's definitely not for me, I'm happy with my truenas setups, but my point is I can still look at a product, specially one I can calculate the work being put into and potential relevant costs associated with and determine if they are over priced or not, same as an iPhone is over priced. It doesn't have to be targeted at me to voice my opinion on it. I'm trying to help people it is targeted at to make a more educated decision.

[@AyoKeito]

@@bobsemple9341 price bracket is irrelevant. He is right to point out that software built from scratch is not asking for 100 bucks, and a front-end for existing software somehow does. It's ridiculous. It like you're going to paint your car and they quote you 2x of car's price. Can't even imagine such a scenario, right?

[@bobsemple9341]

@AyoKeito you've never built any software just to clarify? Answer

[@HajheerForoutan]

@@bobsemple9341 oh it's definitely not for me, I'm very happy with my truenas setups at home, but I can still have an opinion on the product. I also can most likely determine if a product is overpriced or not (especially as someone that leads IT projects and is involved from design and architecture processes to budgeting and resources allocation cause PMs can't do it on their own but that is not even required here to have said opinion just like it wouldn't be a requirement for saying I think iPhones are overpriced, but I mentioned it to tell you I know what I'm talking about). My intention is to help people this is intended for so that they can make a more educated decision.

[@bilboswaggens2975]

Linus' saltiness at about 9:00 when Luke is saying they won't use it at LTT is literally his bias in a nutshell. That's why this video is so cringe. Very dismissive and biased

[@Sander523i]

I think people get worked up about this too easily. I thought the original video was really interesting, and when it has more features relevant to me, I may but it.

[@StolenJoker84]

7:41 By this same logic, Windows 3.x weren’t OS’. It was essentially a skin for MSDOS.

[@drabberfrog]

My opinion on HexOS is that I will not buy it for $100 in it's current state, but when the remote backup feature comes out, if I have a friend with a truenas server I will seriously consider it for $300 However, I think a lot of the negative feedback came from the fact that the $100 deal was effectively a pre-order which extracted all of its value from the promise of future features and since you've been critical of that concept with games, it does seem hypocritical that you're doing it. Although to be fair, games don't offer pre-orders for a third of the regular price. Regardless, I think HexOS is a really cool idea and it's on my radar as a truenas user with a 3 year old deployment.

[@Tredok]

I mean... a "buddy backup" can be easily done with syncthing, you just add the other person NAS as a syncthing device, share the folder and mark the device as untrusted, put a password and done, all they have are encrypted files.

[@vimsi]

the future price tag is what scares me. What if this whole thing goes downhill after 1 or 2 years? lifetime my butt :D i doubt you get a refund then.

[@brvdley6442]

Then wait for monthly that you can quit at anytime, a lifetime price outlines you have permanent use forever. If that isn't worth $300 to you, don't buy it.

[@notcorrect]

The lifetime price is reasonable.

[@vimsi]

@@notcorrect did you read what i wrote? it MIGHT be, for a company with reputation, this is maybe gone in 2-3 years, and so is your money

[@notcorrect]

@vimsi your points are definitely valid. I was referring to your first sentence where I thought you were referring to the post early access price of 299, but you meant the price far into the future.

[@vimsi]

@@gamm8939 "a lifetime license grants you access to all features of HexOS forever" - so what brings a dead software where no bugs are going to be fixed? or security issues will never be fixed? Or before certain features are added you were waiting for?

[@Ouchie]

Not sure of this is the place for questions, but will "Buddy backups" stop working if the company is gone?

[@chadkrause6574]

I bought HexOS. I think it’s solid and I’m excited to use it once I build my nas. Good things cost money. People will pay hundreds or thousands for a computer but expect software to be free

[@u1f98a]

holy hell, i didnt see any issue with hexos until offhand luke mentioned the price being $300 and like, i went and checked. it's $300/server. you can buy *actual off the shelf NASes* (diskless of course, but hexos is diskless _and_ hardwareless) for not much more than that. i'm not one to tell others how to run their business, but i fail to see the value proposition there, especially given that the people hexos are targeting aren't likely to be the people who 100% know they want a self-built NAS, especially if theyre just trying to repurpose old hardware

[@adamgbk1]

it is kinda mad that the person who woke me up to the concept of "never buy a promise" was linus and then this stuff happens

[@Spielix]

Well, he is also a proponent of avoiding subscriptions. And with software (especially if it is software connected to the internet) a lifetime license is always buying the promise that the company will maintain/update the software for your lifetime (or at least long enough for you to not care anymore). You can't have both.

[@thbroadway]

@@Spielix That is not what "never buy a promise" was EVER about. It has always been about the fact that features and security IMPROVING after a purchase should not be an incentive for your purchase. Lifetime licenses, which Linus has always supported, tend to be good separate of the above advice, as you "own" that software vs renting it, and can thus use it offline even after the company is long gone (as long as that software does not require constant online access for functionality, which HexOS shouldn't.) The incentive for buying HexOS now should be based on the current features and the discount, with new features being a bonus, easily letting you have your cake and clone it to eat another one.

[@Varadiio]

@@thbroadway But since it's a closed beta that purchasing doesn't give you access to? It has no features in a tangible sense to your purchase.

[@thbroadway]

@@VaradiioFrom the site: “All customers who purchase HexOS Early Access receive immediate access to the beta (as of 12/11/2024).” Before this, they were aiming for everyone to have access by the end of the year, which is a couple weeks away anyway.

[@derpmansderpyskin]

Is it really that difficult to use TrueNAS? The most honest thing to do would be a double tutorial, showing people how to set up a NAS using TrueNAS, and then showing how to set up a NAS using HexOS, and let people decide if they think the ease of use that HexOS allegedly provides is worth $200.

[@PrograError]

Too much menu, I guess... information overload... HexOS would just essentially be the WinUI to the CMD...

[@Chaosweaver667]

The UI is awful. It was clearly made by developers. The fact you have to click a menu, then a submenu, then a drawer in that submenu, just to edit a simple configuration is crazy. I get that it has a lot of advanced customization options, but 90% of people won't use them. Unraid is nice because it has a relatively easy to use UI. If you're willing to spend money I think it's the way to go. Otherwise TrueNas makes sense. As for HexOS, I don't really see where it fits in. It's more expensive than Unraid, and while the UI is undoubtedly better, I'm not sure if it justifies the price. Maybe in a couple years from now HexOS will be worth using (assuming they reduce the price). It's good to have competition in this space but $300 is steep.

[@cqwickedwake7651]

@@Chaosweaver667 Well if you installedi t recently you would know that they started fixing their UI and especially with this entire HexOS thing it just motivated them even harder

[@Chaosweaver667]

@@cqwickedwake7651 That's good. I'll have to check it out again.

[@ciarangale4738]

Buddy they arent selling it. If you dont think its worth it, dont spend the money.

[@313comput]

I feel like the discussion should be about features vs "this is just a skin"

[@ScamCast]

I bet if Linus never invested in this and came across it as a regular user, he would say the $300 price is crazy. 😂

[@AyoKeito]

Wait, what? I didn't even watch the original video and i was assuming it's something like 20 bucks, 50 tops. 300? Linus is completely out of touch. Immich asks for 100. And it's built from scratch. Topaz AI costs 200. And it's a uniquely convenient ML app. 300 for reskin (yes, it is one, and it's not an OS by any means)? Jesus. UP: i see it was 99. Still kinda bad tho.

[@purple-cho]

​​@@AyoKeitoit's currently being sold at $100 as a very early beta version, seemingly fairly bare-bones from what the video showed. $300 is the expected retail price for the eventual full release Edit: from reading other comments it sounds like the $100 price was very short-term, possibly only a matter of days, and has since doubled to $200 while still being very much an unfinished product

[@Chaosweaver667]

Especially when Unraid is $250 and it's a whole-ass operating system, with their own RAID system (hence the name), as well as a UI. I get it that developers are expensive, but charging that much for a UI on top of open source software is crazy.

[@filiflo]

I didn't know they upped the price. I felt 100€ is a heavy hit but worth it. 200€ feels like way to much for a nice frontend 300€ You can get a cheap synology nas at this point linus did touch on it and I can see that my 300 won't hold a single dev afloat for long but I aint the only one buying it. Maybe subscriptions are the way to go for live service. It seems more fair for the dev afterall.

[@GameCyborgCh]

@@AyoKeito Immich is free and open source.

[@patrickfoster8335]

I was super pumped about the release and the price till I learned it was still an alpha. This is basically a preorder. And we all know how lots of those go.

[@rents1977]

Self hosted and buddy backup out the door for $100 and I'd have jumped. When I went to the website it was pitched as Black Friday $100 buy it NOW, it will be $200 next week, and then it will be $300 after that. I have an aversion to all marketing that relies on time pressure. It often reeks of trying to push you to purchase without research.

[@RyTrapp0]

Would you prefer they NOT tell you when the discounts are up? Or should we just eliminate discounts all together, so people don't have to get offended about not being able to buy a thing at the lower price later?

[@rents1977]

@RyTrapp0 I personally won't buy anything where there is a time pressure. It goes back to it being a scummy sales tactic being used by doorstep/telesales. Making you rush in to a purchase so you don't miss out. I am well aware it doesn't bother other people.

[@RyTrapp0]

@@rents1977 No one is making you do anything, so the premise is questionable to begin with. Either it's worth it to you or it isn't, no one is torturing you. This is a fabricated criticism.

[@rents1977]

@RyTrapp0 Time based pricing pressure has long been used as a tool to manipulate consumers into rushed decisions. I've experienced plenty of it. I'll avoid any new product that is marketed in a way where low price and short time, i.e. launching at 1/3 of the price, but only for Black Friday, are the main points pushed. Some folk are happy to do it. I'm not. I don't really see why my opinion bothers you enough to try and change it?

[@beepboopbeepboop190]

I love FOSS but it's insane to demand everyone else donate their time without compensation to make things for you so you don't have to pay for it. HexOS isn't for me but I'm happy it exists. I have no issues with more local storage systems being made available to people with different skill levels instead of forcing family/friends/etc to use google drive, dropbox, sharefile, etc or using some hellscape of poorly labeled and maybe-working usb drives. "X but easier" usually has a price tag and that's fine. If anyone is that against paying for it, there's usually free alternatives that just require you to be more involved.

[@GameCyborgCh]

I'm not against paying for HexOS, I have a problem with their pricing. 300 USD is insane for what it offers, especially since you need to buy multiple licenses to even take advantage of Buddy Backup

[@beepboopbeepboop190]

@@GameCyborgCh How long would it take until a subscription costs you more? There's a lot of devs that sold lifetime licenses for relatively cheap and then they either abandoned the software or switched to subscription-only. If you don't see $300 worth of value then it's just something that isn't for you just like it isn't for me. Not everything needs to be.

[@GsrItalia]

I can't have "beef" with HexOS. Currently I can't try it, only "sort of" buy it. But in current state, this is not selling product, rather than fundraising, but without any other advantage for the fundraisers than... "hoping a full product in future". No shares, no interests, no refunds (outside the 30 day return policy). The former video was advertising (not disclosed, against the investment) neither the fundraising part was explicitated (only in the supposed explaining about the investor which have direct interest into the project to succeed). HexOS is not the issue (sort of). Presentation of the project status, reduced priced FOMO mode, missing informations (and missing advantages for the funders), missing trial windows (try than buy, not the other way around). Then a dismissive set of answers from the funder and advertiser (Mr Sebastian). These, IMO, are the issues. Today HexOS is not a product that can be evaluated, only something to bet 100 USD on.

[@fightclubmiqo]

I don't use it anymore but I always liked the Unraid pricing where you buy a license and you could upgrade to add more features.,

[@jamest18]

I would pay 300 dollars for a perpetual license to Photoshop, Premiere Pro, and Audition in a heartbeat. That would pay for itself inside of 2 years. I recently dropped adobe because I hate spending 600+ dollars a year for shitty apps that keep getting worse.

[@leexgx]

27:25 pull backup is the safest way to do it (as long as the backup only has readonly permissions) when the main server is controlling the backup it has write permissions on backup nas so anything that happens on main nas can affect backups (ransomware for example) so backup targets must use snapshots (so you can roll back if the backups get encrypted) must have its own login credentials the backup access on the backup nas

[@derpmansderpyskin]

"If you don't like it, don't buy it!" Fair enough, but you are a tech review channel. Would you ever accept any other company releasing a $200-$300 non-fully-featured product saying that? Somehow I don't think so.

[@Varadiio]

Typical Linus blinders.

[@kazzar831]

"it's a long video" - this clip of them talking about this is longer than the original video. 23 minutes isn't long...

[@Soguwe]

Having to pay for a trial is _ludicrous_ Even _if_ 300 quid for an OS wasn't ridiculous(which it is), it would be crazy to have to pay for trying out the software. Even Adobe in their infinite greed lets you demo their stuff for 30 days.

[@pieterrossouw8596]

If "buddy backup" takes off, there'll basically immediately be a few clones based off Syncthing or something. It honestly probably exists but is obscure or very dev-centric with like a YAML file for config or something and ironically like TrueNAS could do with some UI love.

[@danetnavern0565]

When people say "why would I pay for a reskin" they mean "the video didn't show any new features that justify the $100 price tag when compared to TrueNas, which is free". From what's snown in the video, HexOS is not leagues more accessible than TrueNas.

[@monsterhunter445]

Unraid is also about the same price. So yeah

[@GeneralNickles]

In order for you to even make the argument that HexOS isn't more accessible than TrueNAS, you would need to be fairly familiar with TrueNAS. Which automatically invalidates your argument. HexOS is specifically designed for people that are NOT familiar with TrueNAS, and have no desire to become familiar with it. That is literally the entire point. Also, you're just objectively wrong. When I was toying with putting together a media server, I took one look at the TrueNAS interface and knew right then it was way too complicated. I've also seen people use it, and even just the jargon involved is like trying to learn an entire new language, nevermind the actual use of the software. From what was shown in the HexOS video, it appears to be perfectly approachable and plenty simple enough for anyone that's used a computer before. The two could not be more different if you wanted them to.

[@filiflo]

I would have also liked a step by step guide on how they set it up (even if you are not supposed to need one) with a captured screen. Couldn't really make stuff out with the camera pointed at the screen

[@Varadiio]

@@GeneralNickles Anyone knowledgeable enough to make an informed purchase is too knowledgeable to use it? So only rubes being told by others to buy it are the target market? What on Earth is this?

[@bluemischief1582]

Luke: trying to be reasonable, addressing the complaints, sharing some personal experience and an angle for which HexOS could use people. Linus: Interrupting, full defense mode, doesn't acknowledge the conflict of interest. "just don't buy it" You influence people to do something, that is why the sponsors pay for all the ads on the videos. LMG asked earlier if we wanted tech-tips or entertainment, well LMG has continuously showed that they can't give good tech-tips by making unacceptable mistakes in reviews and conflicts of interest. So at least I will only watch for entertainment, and for research take my time elsewhere.

[@Bravo578]

I get from where your coming from and yeah he shouldn't have spoken about it when he has invested into it but at the end of the day you can't blame a person telling you about a product that might interest you since the final decision maker is you, it's true that he has an influence but if anyone really went out of they're way to buy this very expensive software just based on advice from some famous person on the internet without making the final decision based on logic then it's they're fault specially that compared to other marketing schemes this is one of the less shady ones.

[@CosRacecar]

The "buddy backup" setup would be very interesting to me. I would love to be able to set up NAS at my house and my brother's, so if anything ever happened to either of our houses our data wouldn't be lost. But it would also be great if there could be e.g. 3 "folders", one that only I can access, one only he can access, and one that's shared between us.

[@fifthwit1318]

mid response, a lot of it isn't addressing critism it's just the elementary playground response of, "well they do that too" like saying if you dont like paying for a truenas skin then I dont like paying for a unix skin because macos is unix based !!! just sad response

[@billykritikos7734]

I see what you're trying to say with the "MacOS is just a Unix skin" argument but I think you're missing the point, MacOS fills a niche for most people that it integrates in a whole ecosystem, yes its simplified but it has as many features as Unix. My question for this is what does HexOS offer other than simplicity that TrueNAS doesn't, and why would I want to pay or the beta knowing that 90% of the time people looking at alternative NAS solutions are technical enough to know that TrueNAS just has more to offer for free or if they want simplicity UNRAID is just as simple and offers more. I don't think HexOS is a bad idea for an investment but I think its pushed out too soon rather than waiting for something more marketable and and idea that makes it different than the other competitors.

[@Caboose12000]

I wasn't mad and didnt comment on the original video, but i was dissapointed. it looked like a pretty cool software that could help a lot of new people get into self hosting and server stuff by lowering the bar to entry. but then right at the end of the video the pricetag put that bar to entry right back up where it was. sure there may be a few people who can afford this and it'll work well doe them I'm sure, but theyre severely limiting the "good" (if youre willing to call spreading a self hosting mindset as good) theyre able to do with a price structure like that

[@theonlygus]

I purchased HexOS for a reason. I don’t want to spend the time to tinker with trueNAS or Unraid. I have always wanted to build my own NAS and the learning curve is what has always kept be from doing it. This solves that issue for me, so I got it.

[@kaidenrogers]

the "if you don't like it, don't buy it" kind of retort is weak. There are plenty of things people won't buy, but still have and share an opinion on. No one thought they were being forced to buy it or even encouraged to buy it if it wasn't for them. Every company can say the exact same thing in the face of criticism of their product. Remember the Humane pin, yeah people didn't buy it *and* they voiced their criticism. Even Humane understood that "if you don't like it, don't buy it" isn't a valid response to the criticism

[@helljumper912]

yeah, except basically every argument that gained any traction and popularity were bulls**t to begin with.

[@Amphibax]

I mean if enough people just don't buy the company will go out of business. Most people complaining will never buy it anyway, doesn't matter what the company will do, so why bother?

[@Varadiio]

@@helljumper912 If you don't like them then don't read them.

[@n_core]

I'm just saying, at the end of the day, the market will decide their future. As for Humane pin case, they took their losses and just keep doing stuff that can keep their company afloat. The rest of the world will just move on with their life.

[@jeffreyjadav9493]

I loved the hex os vid and photo sync!

[@raawesome3851]

To be honest, I think its a little expensive, imo.

[@notcorrect]

299 for a lifetime license is reasonable.

[@raawesome3851]

​@@notcorrectyeah, I know, I think a Windows license esque price is something I'd probably buy it for.

[@PcGameHunter]

@@notcorrectIts 300$ per server

[@notcorrect]

@@PcGameHunter yes that's reasonable.

[@HajheerForoutan]

@@notcorrect not when unraid is 249

[@Denosaur22]

Can there be another $99 "deal." Missed the very narrow window to support this project at that price. Didn't receive the launch video in my feed until after the discount expired.

[@Goatgarien]

My only critism is the kind of scummy behavior of the pricing scheme (I bought it when it was $100 despite this because I liked the sales pitch) $100 would be a great price for the full product and I'm happy to purchase it at that price (why I did) But to have it be unfinished at $100 then making users pay $200-300 after that if they purchase it later. Not worth it in the slightest Why should anyone pay $200-300 for an OS​ marketed towards a home user (not enterprise) When windows home is only $120-130 A "skin" on a free OS​ should not cost more than the biggest OS​ on the planet for home users.

[@Amphibax]

You understand windows can be cheaper because its the biggest OS on the market?

[@Varadiio]

@@Amphibax Capitalism does not intend for the customer to pay more for inferior products. I'm pretty sure that's like... the opposite of supply and demand principles.

[@TheLumpenMaoist]

@@Varadiio someone hasnt looked into the Diamond market sure prices tend to drop, due to falling rate of profit, butt the need to make as much profit as humanly possible, regardless of quality, is a core quality of Capitalism, the system running as it does Capitalism strips us of innovation lmfao "supply and demand principles" T-T, the principles of stealing, pillaging, harvesting, and devastating, to make as much gold as one can coffer; its a pathetic system, that breeds this kind of profit hungry, fomo baiting, featureless bollocks; look at the hell of subscription products, poorly made/rushed out movies, video games, books, software, etc; this system is all about crunch, all about profit maximalisation _also, capitalism has no intent, it is an economic system_; capitalists have an intent, and thats to profit off of their property, and that is an intent to make as much money as possible, regardless of the quality of the product the only reason we get sold more useful than not tings, is because a product chiefly has to serve a use, for it to be appealing to even sell, thats ot a merit on capitalism, thats just basic socio-political fact [usually, we do have a lot of bs products that have no reason to exist, except as a means to profit; Marx called this phenomena "unproductive-labour"]

[@Goatgarien]

@@Amphibax sure but it also has significantly more value and work put into it, and yet it's still only ~$120 (or free lol)

[@RidenourMedia]

Buddy Backup is EXACTLY what excites me about this. I can’t buy yet and I really don’t like buying a promise, but when it’s ready, I have a handful of guys who are ready to buy in.

[@ItsDSG]

I don't get why do peoples react like they are forced to buy/use stuff; if a product doesn't seems like its for you, just don't buy/use it

[@NeptuneSega]

You say that as if you never criticized a piece of software you never owned. It's all valuable feedback, especially if they want to maintain cahsflow to maybe convince more users in the future top maybe purchase their software.

[@ItsDSG]

@NeptuneSega Well imo, giving feedback on something that is not for you isn't valuable since you are not the target of said product but that's just how I see things

[@Varadiio]

@@ItsDSG You're being way to specific with "not for you". That's not how that phrase is intended to work.

[@LoneBeastYT]

​@@ItsDSGwhat determines if a product is meant for someone? If someone who lives in a third world country who can use all the features but the price is too expensive not enough of a customer to consider? I would've been on board fully if the price was lower as i personally find it too expensive for a product that otherwise I would make a lot of use of. The issue i have with is that if the license exist only for 1 server thn I dont find it worth it. And many people are in my situation where they believe the price is too expensive for 1 singular server to be 200 dollars as at that point you are better buying off a dedicated Nas system and have the features that hex won't have (keep in mind its 200 bucks for 1 server license and you still need to buy the hardware for the storage)

[@easter8295]

I think HexOS could have dodged a significant amount of this backlash by announcing tools within HexOS to transition to more control if necessary. The techie people who want to set stuff like TrueNAS up also probably see it as the "correct" way, so things like the remote-only dashboard (which they committed to change) and a lack of more granular tools in the GUI are going to turn those people off despite not being the target audience. It's a sticky situation to be in.

[@OmegaVestoLord]

I dont have a problem with the OS or the video. But I hate the defense "if you dont want or like just dont pay for it". You could say that about almost anything, "you can't criticize lootboxes because you dont have to buy the game"

[@ABDP]

Bad argument that isn’t really fair

[@Yoko4797]

I disagree. Lootboxes are criticized since kids are involved. Not the case here.

[@xionico09]

That’s not an equivalent example though Loot boxes is gambling. The OS is an OS. One is playing for an actual product and service. One is paying for a chance at a possible product

[@OmegaVestoLord]

@@xionico09 I admit maybe the loot boxes was an extreme comparison. However, it is still perfectly reasonable for commenters to voice their opinion that something is not worth the money, without being dismissed by "don't buy it". LTT itself ends plenty of reviews by essentially saying a product likely isn't worth the price

[@GKEnder]

@@OmegaVestoLordliterally no one is saying you’re not allowed to complain. Linus is just saying that your complaints are valid (he says so a dozen times in this video), And Also, that you don’t have to buy it / the product may just not be for you, given those complaints.

[@JeiArts]

Me being a bit nitpicky i dont like that either of them used the phrase, " just dont buy it then" that phrase has been used so many times from individuals to mega corporations to justify deceptive actions and justify ignoring critiques. "I don't like that apple removed the microphone jack" "THEN DONT BUY IT"

[@Foremi]

People get insulted by products that exist for ease and convenience in an industry typically not associated with it. It lowers the barrier of entry and circumvents gatekeeping.

[@SnapshotTube2]

This is the most accurate description of the outrage.

[@Razor2048]

One issue is the automation the OS offers is something that should be part of truenas by default, just like with every other NAS solution. For example, if I add an app or service to truenas, the obviously, I want it to work. Why not offer a default or wizard that presets all necessary permissions and folders? Of the company knows enough about a process to make a tutorial for it, then they know enough to automate the steps in that tutorial, and only ask questions where relevant such as parts or names that can be customized.

[@asdanjer]

the " just dont buy it lul" argument is kinda nonsense. the question is it fair for what it offers? would linux also say that when someone making a video selling a skin for a videogame for 500 dollars? In fact we know he woudnt caus he did talk about exactly that. As infulencers you (shocker) influence peopel. esepcally a video as positve as this with a vested intrest you should make sure this is sound. I am not here to say if or if or not this is fair just to say this argument makes no sense. especally caus linus knows well people trust him and this will lead to people trusting a company they might not have outherwise by extend. but independently of the qualty of the product i am gona say: 100 dollars is a high ask for a finished product like this but fine. charging this for the promise of maybe eventually being invited to a beta seems more than sketchy.

[@michaelcorcoran8768]

Yes if the option not to buy something means consumer backlash is not warranted then LTT should stop making videos

[@Bloodfox64]

I think that another major difference as to why the messaging for Framework was so different than for HexOS is the fact that they are from two very different product categories that have very different sustainability hurdles. For Framework, the computer market is fairly saturated and highly competitive, so it was - and still is - a lot more likely that they will go under. Meanwhile for HexOS - and I will say I don't know all that much about the NAS software market - it does seem to be that there is significantly less competition and they seek to fill a market need that has yet to be handled by another product.

[@kittylou5459]

Love how he said he doesnt like paying for macos skin..... Linus my man,,,,, the OS is free, you dont ever pay for macos. So want to try that one again? Thing is, during their black fridays deal it was $99, okay for a skin, fair enought, then it went upto $199 during beta period. After launch tho that price rockets upto $299, Now i get who this product is aimed at but $299 for a skin for that aimed market..... they really kinda missed the boat there. If your at the point of building your own NAS, I cant see you being that noob to want to drop that kind of money onto a skin, with some fancy scripts. This is the point, price point is way out of touch.

[@notkarma2984]

Yeah normies dont need a NAS and someone who needs also is a category of people who can easily google a step tutorial for TrueNas

[@amnesiacsardine]

If only the part on buddy backup around the 25 minutes mark was on the original video and if there would have been already a Hex OS video before the announcement, it would have felt more like a project Linus is personally interested and invested in and less like a cheap investor's pitch trying to get you to FOMO in on a whim in the middle of Black Friday.

[@Fhnsgkdfkvsgmvdg-y6u]

I watched the whole HexOS video. I think the only thing that bothers me at all is that you didn't compare it to existing solutions. I think it would have looked a lot better if you would have set up a few alternatives side by side. (Maybe the basic trueNAS, Asustor, Ugreen, and whatever i missed.) If you really wanted to show how hexos is better, it would have been best to show its advantages, not just talk about them.

[@Avizzo]

You saying you watched the whole video or the whole podcast when it aired? Cuz this is a 30 minute video that was published about 14 minutes ago, lol

[@itsmilan4069]

​@@Avizzohe is talking about the hexos video

[@Avizzo]

@ Understood!

[@boomeruni]

My biggest issue I see and barrier to entry I think for most is the cost and the fact that there is no trial to at least see what its like. Luke's dismissal of people not wanting to pay to be in the beta was also interesting.

[@filiflo]

I think you could interpret the payback window as a chance for a trial. Luke touched on it in the first 5 min I think

[@Varadiio]

@@filiflo We all know "or your money back!" schemes are always intended to net the people who forget to return it.

[@drackar]

I'll be honest. "Just don't buy it" being parroted over and over and over and over by a tech review company is _laughably_ offensive. Significantly, in every sense, worse than the actual issues with the product you're pushing. Just... sounds so goddamn condescending. You have 30 days, to get a refund, on a beta product. That's not reasonable. The product might not release anything of note in that time. That's why we don't think it's reasonable. This is a very expensive beta. As a launch product, if the features are right, that might...make sense. It might be worth the $300. But to charge _anything_ for the product, as it sits now, as a rough as it is, for people to test? It's completely unreasonable, to (I feel) a significant percentage. Pointing out a 30 day return window for a beta product with almost zero features, that's been in development for what, two years? Feels disingenuous. There is, functionally, zero point for that window to exist, or to be advertised. This is functionally, in every sense that matters, crowd funding. You don't expect a refund on a kickstarter, or similar, when the product fails. Anyone who invests, at all, should do it for _love of the concept_ and out of faith that it will save them money in future. Putting it out there as a "oh yeah if you don't like it you can get your money back in 30 days" the product will not be at a stage where it can reasonably be _judged_ in 30 days. Frankly, it would feel _less_ scam like if that offer was not there "hey, we like this, we hope you like it to, but development costs money, so here's a $100 early access supporter price" makes sense. It really does, but then "And if you don't like it, you can return it in 30 days" just breeds doubt.

[@Gittun]

Exactly! Them repeatedly just glossing over glaring issues in their arguments bothered me a lot more than the original video, actually. I agree with your assessment of it sounding really condescending coming from someone that so frequently says that people probably should not preorder or buy some products that are not good value. Them focusing so much on the complaints about it needing to be free is such a red herring. That's clearly not a good argument, I fully agree that this is a product that has a value-add and thus deserves to ask money for that. The price they're asking and the refund window just is _not_ reasonable for the product and outlook as it is. The whole conversation in this clip is just disappointing.

[@filiflo]

I think a typical response would be. You could just buy it again for 300 and test it again. I find 300 a bit much but if you want to check if it is worth it you can try it again at that time I think

[@aaron57422]

It's ingrained in him at this point. "We make overpriced versions of things other people already make, if you don't like it don't buy it" is basically the subtitle for the LTT Store.

[@jacebeleren429]

If you call this a scam then you really need to recalibrate what a scam is. Creating a product with significantly better accessibility is legit. Creating an early release with a discount to help continue development is legit. You people are babies and calling EVERYTHING that comes with some sort of a risk a scam is stupid.

[@Krushx0]

@@jacebeleren429 We cant say for sure that is a scam but for sure it looks like one, have every red flag, i cant even see the product from the red flags. The whole structure looks like a crypto scam, buy in and let the owners evacuate with your money, at that point the whole software became useless without the cloud part currently. The software rely on third party software that they have no control over it. That's a no no especially a big one for 300USD. The whole thing can be rug pulled by a third party company, doesn't matter which company we talking, you are spending fat cash on this. That software (if I even dare to call that) developed allegedly in two years. Every front end dev can tell you that is BS. Probably 2 month and I was generous. It only contains the site structure, designs and pre defined commands that happens on truenas and those commands assigned to buttons in the front. There is no special sauce that require 2 years for this kind of unfinished product. The premises of this solution just stinks. Not I am the crazy one that wont go in a house that looks like its burning, it could be an illusion created by something that the owner use and as a side effect looks like one that is burning but sure is hell that the owner did not make any effort against it.

[@AkhilBabel]

What does learning TrueNAS mean? 18:17

[@timtim2949]

I got two licenses on Cyber Monday. I believe HexOS can be something great and wanted to support it. Worst case scenario, I'm out $200, which I can live with. I'll just not go out to eat at restaurants for a month.

[@adambomb7331]

Was it $100 per license for the sale? Just finding out about this today, and would have bought one at that price

[@pixel_painter7658]

@@adambomb7331 Yes at that time it was 99$ per license now it is 199$ per license.

[@timtim2949]

@ Yeah it was $99 per license. Honestly, they should’ve extended the timeframe or started marketing earlier. They would’ve gotten a load more customers like me who are into a solution like this, but had no idea it existed.

[@Genesis8934]

I hope they extend the $99 pricetag as an introductory offer when they launch, so that at least people have another chance to buy RELEASE software at the FOMO discount. Though again, product's not for me anyway.

[@ssanc6]

I also took 2 licenses. I know that I am gambling $200, but I personally can't afford it.

[@LCCB]

10:45 even if you're not legally responsible for what they're storing (I don't know, not a lawyer), you could still end up having to deal with a search warrant cooperation and all that hassle.

[@drewski23_7]

Just give em the ol "trust me bro" guarantee!

[@youkofoxy]

I think the whole point is: Will you pay for the Adobe Suite or you gonna use the FOSS alternatives? Should you pay for a Linux distro or should you just DIY it from the source code?

[@DAndHGamer]

One again Linus misses the point. He spends 20+ minutes praising software that at this point barely does anything and has possible security issues like making public folders that their "inexperienced" target user isn't going to understand. Linus is fine with the $300 price. Significantly more than a full implementation of Unraid which is way easier than TrueNAS. Linus says here he mentioned Unraid in the video, but the transcript says he didn't (in the description, they do say HexOS will make TrueNAS "more user friendly than Unraid or even Windows" which is a wildly baseless claim). It is easy to be "user friendly" when it doesn't do anything. Also, the feature he is most touting in both video's is "buddy backup" which is completely unavailable right now and the website basically doesn't list much of anything as to features, timeframe, etc. The real truth is I have watched enough LTT videos to know if Linus hadn't invested and had just been sent a copy of this, it would probably not even get a video and if it did, they would make a significant deal about how little it actually does at this point and never to trust promises.

[@devoosdude9809]

Also, i don't understand why its so hard to release dashboard? I mean usually its just a matter of cutting your cloud dashboard docker images create compose file and add environment variables to configure urls. How come it takes that much of a time?

[@tyeia]

If truenas is free, why should I buy hexos? Their main selling point is "look how easy it is to set up applications" when truenas scale is literally that. I just don't see the point of the product.

[@jojosworlds1208]

Even easier, I guess. And the buddy backup system. But it's not for me.

[@TusharSelvakumar]

I guess the point is if you have no idea about what to do and just want to set up a nas, then you use HexOS

[@CrisCheese_]

​@@TusharSelvakumarI just cant believe anyone who doesnt know anything about nas then actually sees the worth in software this expensive

[@Genesis8934]

@@TusharSelvakumar I still personally question _why_ though. If you know nothing about managing a NAS, why are you _building_ a NAS? If you don't like to tinker with a NAS or apps like Docker, etc., why get anything other than a prebuilt NAS like Synology, QNAP, or Asustor (or others)? If you're looking to use existing hardware, most cases that you have laying around aren't going to have huge bays for lots of harddrives, so you're only going to have maybe 8 or 12 drives at best depending on the case, usually less. And if you buy a rackmount case, you'll probably want to tinker later anyway since that's a gateway drug.

[@Dragon-vc8yh]

It's just another layer of ease-of-use added on top of it so even more people could potentially use the software. For a relatively technical person with the time to spend to learn how to do it, it isn't a huge problem to setup truenas. But for someone who isn't super technical or doesn't want to spend days or even weeks learning how to setup everything just how they want it, this seems like it could be a pretty attractive option. I've messed around with truenas scale for a bit on a spare machine, and if you don't know how to setup an application its pretty overwhelming to see a dialog window popup with a long list of settings that need to be configured for the application to work properly. I'm not new to doing dumb stuff with computers and I could easily learn how it works, but I also have a lot of other interests and time-sinks so I'm not able to deep-dive into every single thing I find interesting. I don't want a second job, I want a nas OS that just works.