I Have To Address This On My Own?? - WAN Show December 27, 2024

[@antoniskazou]

I don't really understand how that Honey video was seen as being against LTT, I saw it as them using LTT as an example of a channel that promoted Honey while also having affiliate links on their description very frequently. I don't get why people are mad at you guys.

[@ru2225]

@@cringedetector9819touch grass

[@quadphonics]

Honey is an extreme scammer I can send you a video link of proof! They are absolutely disgusting and go behind the backs of everybody that uses it to scam everybody else,

[@tetrakoop]

@@cringedetector9819 hope your response set off your own alarm

[@hellterminator]

Didn't Megalag explicitly say he was disappointed in LTT for just quietly dropping Honey (and switching to a different sponsor who did basically the same thing) instead of calling them out publicly, essentially allowing them to get away with it for 2 more years?

[@antoniskazou]

@@hellterminator I must have skipped that part

[@jefflem]

Linus I think the main problem people found was that you were the biggest creator that we knew knew about the affiliate stealing. It could have been brought to our attention in a lot clearer way. It would’ve helped smaller creators as they need affiliate links to survive. Maybe through contacting over on the community tab. Any way love to lmg from here in Britain. Edit gave more context and added more details

[@aevumlux3323]

It would have been heads up to creators that didn't have the connections to know about honey and to give customers a heads up because if honey is willing to do shady stuff with their affiliates there's no reason to believe they wouldn't do the same to the customer. I have never been on the ltt forum and would bet that the vast majority of viewers haven't either

[@LzysGraphics]

Exactly how I feel. I’m glad they figured it out. I’m not glad they didn’t find some other way to bring it to the attention of their whole audience, not just those on the forums who would read one very specific thread. Instead they decided to wipe their hands of it after receiving payment to advertise it to thousands of viewers without keeping the majority of their audience informed.

[@jefflem]

The main thing is they dropped them but for Linus that isn’t too out of the ordinary

[@Mussyo18]

It. Only. Affected. Creators. It would of been a drama video to an audience it doesn't affect. Let's be sensible here lads!

[@aevumlux3323]

​@Mussyo18 like I said in my comment if a company is willing to treat their affiliates poorly they are willing to do the same to their customers

[@roflmagister5]

[01:35] 01. R.I.P. Gordon Mah Ung [09:00] 02. Honey controversy [19:56] 03. RTX 5090 pricing talk and discussion [26:56] ... what about RTX 6090? A wild Intel appears. [34:58] ... Linus justifies the 2000 USD price of the RTX5090 by playing games hard (reigning in on the trope that some players buy games on digital stores then let them languish) [44:36] ... back to the RTX 5090 [46:08] 04. The Commuter Backpack/Bag / Merch msgs / Chitchat [1:24:35] 05. Sponsors [1:27:45] 06. Asking the LTT Writers for their favorite moments this year [1:59:28] 07. Fake Nintendo lawyer [2:00:32] 08. Forum user posted "My experience as a winner turned into disqualification by Nvidia" [2:02:26] 09. Arizona State Board for Charter School approved an application for a fully-online school for grades 4-8 [2:09:15] 10. OpenAI new corporate structure [2:10:20] 11. WAN after dork

[@eyybabyj1397]

Youre a G

[@Alex-oh5rt]

thanks

[@darinl.younce8849]

Legend

[@Holek2]

"WAN after dork" 😂

[@dogbot55]

This is my preference for time stamps. Useful but not too specific

[@TaswcmT]

One big problem with Honey for KZbinrs, is that it DOESN'T MATTER if they stop advertising for Honey. It's not as if referrals won't be redirected once a KZbinr drops working with Honey. Every single time ANYONE using Honey follows one of their affiliated links, Honey steals the referral. Honey will continue to be a problem as long as anyone uses them.

[@mickleman52]

Not that it makes it any better, but we are talking about paypal here, realistically what else were they supposed to do? They dropped them as a sponsor, like many others, and posted about it on the forums (I think that is what the stream said), and moved on. Like Linus said, all they knew at the time was it was stealing affiliate revenue, which is not something that negatively effects the effects consumers. Even if they made a big fuss about it at the time, they would just come off sounding like a spoiled youtuber (how dare you do something that saves you money but prevents me from getting my kickback!). Also, as someone who installed honey for like a week... it didn't take all that long for me to realize honey wasn't doing me any favors. I quick google search at check out for "[store name] coupon" would often find me a discount honey missed. I just figured it was a crap add-on that was mining my data (like many others). It didn't even cross my mind they were actively manipulating you (though should have guessed it).

[@tiktik-jv7hp]

okay good. affiliate links are an extreme problem because that’s how you get the cancerous top 5 websites. Rakuten pays better cash back and does the same thing. it’s great.

[@fredriklundholm8496]

Hence LTT should have told their followers to uninstall Honey, as a minimum once found out. For themselves, and others.

[@alexander97]

@@fredriklundholm8496 Imagine the hate LTT would have gotten if they had told their followers to uninstall Honey and thus forgo discount codes just so they could get all the affiliate money themselves.

[@calebhearn1526]

@@fredriklundholm8496 Putting this responsibility on LTT is short-sighted. They dropped a sponsor because of how it affected their business; that doesn't mean it's their responsibility to "expose" Honey's business practices. I wouldn't put this on Mr. Beast or anyone else. It's not an individual creators' responsibility to publish an investigative expose about why they dropped an advertiser tbh. It's not bad for consumers - just creators.

[@DevilChowder]

I believe the argument is that Megaleg wanted LTT, a tech centric channel, to mention the problem and supposedly help other creators. But that shouldn't warrant hate towards LTT

[@fateunleashed9680]

Finally someone else gets it!

[@CanIHasThisName]

But that’s making two incorrect assumptions: That LTT was the one who found out about it and that other creators did not know. Other creators DID know and found out the same way LTT did.

[@christopherwells7869]

​@@CanIHasThisNameNo one is assuming he was the one that discovered it. A number of content creators didn't know about this. Even if Linus dropped honey, it still hurts him by not talking about it. Even if he's not promoting it anymore other creators are promoting it, you still have people using his affiliate links that have honey installed so he's still getting affiliate money stolen from him.

[@insu_na]

@@CanIHasThisName It doesn't matter who found out about it, it matters who has the reach to make everyone else aware, and it matters who promoted the scam themselves and have thus gotten a bit of the responsibility to make the scam known. Some other creators also found out, sure, but not nearly enough to make an impact, which meant that over the years the scam kept on happening, fleecing users and especially smaller content creators. It's not Linus' fault that they got bamboozled by Honey, but as with other shady sponsors in the past (VPNs for example) they should've given people a heads-up, imo.

[@CanIHasThisName]

@@insu_na The claim that very few creators found out is incorrect. The number of creators promoting Honey after this became widely reported on went down drastically. Again, this is just misrepresenting the whole situation and making it seem like LTT did something wrong. And here in particular it’s only about content creators who used affiliate links. None of this was about users.

[@SkylordDuck]

A stream with Linus working on his bike and Luke playing Final Fantasy in the same stream would be absolute GOLD!

[@nikitaluger]

Add Dan doing merch message

[@calebhearn1526]

I'd tune in for this.

[@calebhearn1526]

Just do a split screen. Keep both of them hot mic'd. It doesn't matter how messy it'd be.

[@GenoGar]

I feel like most companies in this situation would simply cease doing business with the other company like Honey, I'm not sure their first inclination is to go full Coffeezilla. This is why I think it's weird that people are holding LTT accountable for Honey when they're also a victim of Honey. The way people were implicating LTT made it feel like they were also in on it or something. People are retroactively judging actions of the past using perfect knowledge they just recently heard of from a youtube video, I'm not a fan of shaming people on what more they could have done when we don't know everything that was happening or what was known at the time.

[@PneumaAsh]

Perfectly said!

[@Isopropyl_Alcohol]

Finally

[@AXGIV]

They already knew something that everyone didnt

[@wkeezz]

You make a fair point, but a counter point is if you are in a position of authority, an advertiser selling a product, it is your responsibility to be as honest as possible about it per FTC guidelines. Why is it that KZbinrs are promoting scams and junk like betterhelp or boardline illegal bitcoins? Why is it that we are being scammed by ads from KZbinRS and KZbin and not newspapers or tv? I think it is time to stop letting people off the hook cause the product they advertise to us lied to them as well.

[@1TechCritic420]

That is total bullshit. LTT employees brought this up over 2 years ago. They knew about it for a long time and didnt do shit about it. And they will delete this comment because that's how they work.

[@skalidan]

The one major thing I disagree with is the ''we stated it publically on our Forum'' part because something being in a reply thread on a Forum can barely be called ''public''. That's on a level where even google searching a specific string might not come up as a search result.

[@squngy0]

I would write my thought on this here, but I already made them public on my MySpace page (as a reply to someones question), so you probably know about them already.

[@squngy0]

There was one more thing. Linus said all the comments on the video were "we knew already!", but from what I've seen, most of them didn't actually know. I've talked to a few of them and almost all of them assumed it was about data harvesting or just some kind of "too good to be true" type thing. Very few of them knew about the affiliates thing. In general, very few of the people discussing it have actually watched the video, especially among those who are bashing/white-knighting Linus.

[@TK-im9zp]

Fair enough but a short and very visible "honey steals our referral money" video would feel unwarranted and out of place to just about every subscriber.

[@calebhearn1526]

@TK-im9zp Agreed. LTT isn't an investigative journalism channel, they make videos about tech products they find cool. I don't think any channel that was previously sponsored by Honey has an obligation to "expose" how Honey really works. I don't expect this of Mr. Beast or any other channel to do this.

[@SashimiSteak]

RIP Gordon, In this niche space of PC hardware enthusiast your legacy will live on.

[@Supermanohman]

PC World and Gordon resisted the urge to go more influencer mainstream and focused on hardware which is the unsung hero of building novices like myself. I've built 3 PCs in the last 10 years for personal use and I always relied on tech videos like theirs to help me make purchasing decisions.

[@pascals4639]

Honey Talk at 09:00

[@rationalcommentor]

thanks

[@SpidermanandJeny]

Thank you! I don't care about this person I have never heard about. It's only sad if you knew the guy that died.

[@miss-magic-maya]

​@@SpidermanandJenyThat seems a bit intensive, did you even listen to what Linus said about him?

[@glue_ostrich9600]

@@SpidermanandJenydamn you have 0 social awareness

[@chinaman1]

No honey no money!

[@EpicWolverine]

Megalag doesn’t seem to be aware that LTT found out about the affiliate code poaching from another public source, but seems to have assumed you figured it out on your own and then kept that to yourselves until asked about it. I think that’s where the hate is coming from. For the rest of his seemingly well done investigative reporting, this seems like a big oversight.

[@Tygrysmen]

ML said that LTT was informed about this through forum but what he never said in his video about videos, tweets, etc. with information already being public and from Linus point of view it was only about cookies so no harm to viewer

[@XBasileusX]

I feel like a big part of that oversight is the lack of full comment from LTT that could have better explained it versus ML having to go off his best knowledge. He definitely should have put less of a spotlight onto LTT specifically but the questions he raised at 15:20 in the ML video versus the response and lack of further comment at the 16:00 mark in it definitely did not help the issue in my mind.

[@peter65zzfdfh]

@@XBasileusXbingo. A basic tenancy of good journalism is seeking comment before publishing. This doesn’t mean you have to be influenced by the response, but not doing show shows ML as a GN tier ‘journalist’. Basically someone that cannot be trusted. At least he asked honey.

[@dvargas3553]

​@@peter65zzfdfhdid you watch the video..? He asked LTT for further comment, they didn't respond LOL. He did his job, LTT was the one who dropped the ball there. Had LTT bothered to respond back they could have explained that they saw this in the news (they themselves said that they heard about Honey affiliate stealing from some fellow creators though) but again, they didn't do that. Nice sneaking in the GN hate there too lmao, always really funny when full on LTT fanboys do that. LTT did some not so great things and was spreading widely watched misinfo, GN covered it. Get over it dude.

[@random_n]

I sensed a bit of exasperation as in "why am *I* making this video when LTT had this easy home run teed up years ago?". I suspect there may have been potential legal issues or more general long-term business considerations against throwing a business partner under the bus who wasn't directly harming end users. Sticking your neck out is risky business when the quiet sponsor drop is legal, ethical, and perfectly safe. PayPal has Nintendo-grade legal muscle. It's better to be cautious when the line between "above and beyond" and "self sacrifice" is blurry.

[@Somone_final_final_v2]

God the tech and gaming communities have become intolerable. Fast to anger slow to think and incapable of empathy.

[@Firikka]

Well, for that the root cause is the social media algorithms. They invoke reactions out of us, negative or positive.

[@hejjj12]

Have become? It has always had people like that. The console war was even worse in the 90s.

[@SirGingerOfKnight]

@@hejjj12 it divided entire friend circles!

[@thomasd5248]

This is just humanity at large, it applies to literally everything

[@matthews2243]

It's very much become a thing in general. Look at how comfortable people are about civilian deaths in warzones as long as they do not share the same ideology.

[@swissmith1]

The problem with the honey video was that it heavily implied that nobody knew about Honey’s practices and that the essayist is the one who uncovered it, but a simple google search brought up at least half a dozen articles from years ago about Honey’s shady business practices. Some info is new, but a lot is re-heated old news. Old news that LTT heard about and acted upon.

[@TheCompyshop]

It wasn’t heavily implied, he straight up said in the video he couldn’t find anything online about it. When that in itself isn’t true

[@missingpathway0]

@@TheCompyshop Kind of like when Honey says it searched the entire internet for coupons and found none. Really weird that he did that. I noticed while watching he said he found nothing about the issue then began to talk about LTT forum discussions about the issue.

[@swissmith1]

You’re right. I rewatched and he literally says he "scoured the internet" about this and didn’t find information. I was a subscriber of his and saw the video when it was just a couple minutes old. I googled the topic after watching to see if the story was picked up and found a bunch of stories and forum posts about the affiliate swapping from 2019-2020.

[@Tyler-z8r]

Most KZbinrs are scum. They need clicks to survive. A lot of KZbinrs really don't have a lot to offer society, so they just hyperbolize, fabricate drama, or even straight up steal content.

[@silverbackag9790]

@@TheCompyshop except it was very very very obvious what was going on. 100+ tech guys didn't know? Horseshit.

[@zacharylowe8083]

How are people blaming LTT for the honey thing? Let’s imagine an example where he bothered to make a standalone video about it 2 years ago - here’s what would have happened: 1. The video would have likely underperformed. 2. They likely didn’t realize that it affected the customers of honey, so why would the audience care? 3. Because the audience wouldn’t care, they would have been CRUCIFIED in the comments and people would be saying things like “I’m sorry that you aren’t getting enough from shilling, but I like getting deals more” and “typical CEO complaining he’s not getting enough money.” The fact that y’all are going after LTT even right now is a classic example of that - honey has always been the perpetrator. Y’all are ridiculous.

[@Gobbbbb]

Your last point is 100% spot on, especially when at that point it was speculation. You can't win either way. Linus had done more than any other creator did, yet he's the one who's being blamed for it.

[@RoganGoneRogue]

They could’ve helped other honey partners realized they were getting money stolen from them

[@zacharylowe8083]

@@RoganGoneRogue How? They got the news from another source, and they commented on the forum. If they would have made a video, my comment still stands that they would have been crucified by commenters like they are right now.

[@RCN_DJLLAMA]

@zacharylowe8083 Thank you!

[@linaskvedaras]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't

[@jackalovski1]

I'm not angry at LTT for the honey thing, but I'm angry FOR them. like, this is a company that stole money form them and tricked them into promoting a scam. I feel LTT should be seeking compensation from honey for having to now go back and remove their sponsored add sections from their old videos through litigation if needed. Like, I think all the youtubers that promoted honey should now be seeking legal advice as to weather or not a class action is in order. the same goes for anyone who downloaded the extension and for the companies that worked with them. Money is the only thing that these companies understand and paypal has been a scammy underhanded company for far too long, taking advantage of literally everyone and holding a monopoly. There are so many people who do not have an alturnative to paypal for a whole host of things and it's disgusting.

[@natan_amorim_moraes]

Yeah PayPal is already hated for so many reasons, like if a customer asks a refunds there's a fee, and I saw ppl complaining the fee was not just some cent's because they changed to a percentage of the product (never saw if it was true), and PayPal even does more insane like locking people out of their account and keeping the money (and I'm not talking about scammers, I'm talking about TOS claims that are impossible to fight).

[@JoshWalker1]

@@natan_amorim_moraes yep that last one just happened to my gf

[@parabolicpanorama]

feeling angry on behalf of millionaires when they themselves didn't care. how does the boot taste?

[@chadhowell1328]

@@parabolicpanoramathe hell are you even talking about?

[@ChrisEmmett]

@@parabolicpanoramaLMG is a big employer. Feel bad for the employees who might have been affected by the impacted revenue.

[@sigma682]

Pancreatic Cancer is often discovered at stage 4, too late for treatment to be effective.

[@ebmar]

Can confirm, my dad had it. Took less than a year before he died

[@toxiccake2143]

@@ebmarI'm sorry for your loss I lost mine a few months after he beat lung cancer

[@MariusNinjai]

yeah think my Neighbour had it rough stuff

[@RetroGameSpacko]

I can never stress enough how surreal and dystopian it sounds to us that health care can ruin your life financially and tgat you have to beg for money. Anyone defending this is in a deep rabbit hole

[@bobhanson1037]

Not only is it defended, the people in power think our system is great (because they get rich) so they keep it the way it is.

[@TetraSky]

the ones defending it are dumb people who think things like "why should I pay for your health care!?" or "I'm young and healthy, I don't need healthcare coverage. So why should I pay for others!?". They all forget they will grow old. They will need medical care. And with the current cost of healthcare, whatever you'd pay in taxes wouldn't even cover how much it'd cost to get cancer treatment or being intubed for weeks after falling ill on some virus later in life. Just because you're healthy today, doesn't mean you will be in 50 years. Not to mention, for the majority of people earning less than 100k, whatever you'd pay in taxes would be cheaper than whatever you'd be paying in private insurance. A private insurance that will try to play doctor and dictate what treatment you can receive and for how long. You can have both system. Public and private. If you can afford private care, go for it. But that isn't the majority of people and saying "just don't pay" ain't a solution.

[@Aloxite1]

Either they haven't experienced financial ruin from a healthcare issue (and thus don't know any better from somewhere where healthcare is free) or they profit massively from this mess to the point they can literally fill up their deep rabbit hole with cash and still have some spare to lobby this.

[@jonRock]

I literally HATE the health care system in the U.S. I have a court order to pay $8000 for past medical bills from when I was making less than $30,000 a year, and it was literally impossible to pay. Not to mention I never did get a diagnosis from any of the tests. I recently went back to college when I was 30, graduated with a 4.0 with a bachelor's in computer science, and got a job in my field of study. I was finally feeling like I'm making good money and my hard work paid off. Then, shortly after I got my dream job in my field of study, "You owe us $8000 from bills you weren't even aware of, and I'll just take all of the money you have please."

[@RetroGameSpacko]

@@jonRock just insane. Back in 2013 shortly after my son was born my wife collapsed and they performed CPR over 30min. She had a rare heart failure after pregnancy. 2 month intensive care to bring her vitals back. Due to brain damage from the lack of oxygen she had to relearn most stuff from there , speaking, eating, walking. (she recovered 100% to spoil the ending). 3 months of rehab clinic where I went with her. I got a hotel room next to the clinic fully paid. I was on sick leave from work. Got 1,5 months my full salary and the following 3 month 66% of it. That IS ALL the money I lost! A third of my salary for three months. 3 years of additional physio training after that. Tons of meds. And I havent seen a SINGLE medical bill! I dont even know how much ALL that had cost. The only thing I had to pay was for lunch at the clinic. 1 (!!) Euro per day. Just to think that on top of all of this that I had to worry about how to pay for all that? What a nightmare.

[@dotms5195]

Timestamps (may have missed some, additions welcomed) 1:37 Gordon Mah Ung 9:05 Honey 19:46 RTX 5090 35:12 'Linus doesn't get to game much' / FF6 45:25 RTX 5090 continued 46:11 LTT Commuter Backpack and discount 52:45 Mech message: Lying on your resume 1:00:33 Merch message: Jankiest solution 1:05:24 Interview with Colin and Samir 1:10:40 'Linus should go on Joe Rogan' 1:15:20 Linus looking for a proper scandal 1:27:45 Favorite 2024 videos according to the writers 1:45:07 Statistics over 2024 1:56:32 Question: how do you feel about 2024 1:59:28 Fake Nintendo DMCA takedowns 2:00:36 'My experience as a winner turned into disqualification by NVIDIA' 2:02:28 AI-powered Schools 2:09:13 OpenAI outlines for-profit corporate structure 2:10:34 ReBoot ReWind GoFundMe 2:12:30 WAN Show After Dark intro 2:16:52 Merch message: Linus' home upgrade plans 2:19:54 Merch message: Staying motivated for your hobbies 2:25:59 Merch message: Protecting yourself in the digital future 2:27:08 Merch message: What format for trucking training videos 2:27:07 Merch message: Benefits of Floatplane over Patreon for creators 2:31:42 Merch message: Product revisions in development stage 2:33:16 Merch message: Thoughts on containerizarion 2:36:15 Merch message: Personal monitor security policy 2:41:41 Merch message: Spanning distance 60ft to PC 2:43:31 Merch message: What were you most sad to see flop/out of fashion 2:46:54 Honey recap 2:51:16 Merch message: Linus' bike and motorcycle specific tech 2:52:31 Merch message: Favorite game server or community

[@danisold]

21740 Mr and Mrs linus get loud in the sack

[@DatAsuna]

Having just replaced my PC from 2013 with a similar spec for the time, Linus is absolutely insane to say PCs have beaten inflation. I've gone for the same upper-midrange 70 series card, current gen i5 build both times and this was double the cost of the first.

[@bobowon5450]

Yes but your not looking longterm. A high end pc today costs around 2000-3000 dollars. Adjust for inflation and a high end pc from 2000 would cost twice that. Yes in the short term prices have gone up , but long term they aren't that bad

[@djjuicyjuicy]

And prices of everything else haven't doubled since 2013?

[@dycedargselderbrother5353]

It's a little tough because it depends on market segment. GPUs are more expensive than ever, but it's due more to increasing demand than inflation. Once upon a time you were competing with other gamers and render farms that were few and cutting edge. The second half of this business has grown much faster than the first, with render farms being joined by medical, crypto, and machine learning, for example. On the other hand, CPUs have actually gotten cheaper. It used to be pretty normal to pay around $700-$800 for the top (gaming) SKUs even 20 years ago, but for the most part this price point has become around $500 and not even holding as long as it used to. The more expensive CPUs, like i9s and R9s, don't make much sense for gaming or general desktop use. This was also true years ago but both Intel and AMD have gradually moved workstation parts into the mainstream offerings.

[@LimeymanZero]

Now I know why Linus has the KZbin chat turned off! First live show I ever got to and it was the best advert for Floatplane I ever saw!

[@Rhizix]

It's a real mess isn't it...

[@YoTuBe110]

????????

[@enderduck4253]

It's truly awful

[@aevumlux3323]

It's pretty telling that this is the one comment ltt likes

[@LimeymanZero]

@@aevumlux3323 Again, incomplete data, Linus is catching a flight, my comment was seconds after the live stream ended, he's probably driving to the Airport to catch the plane he said he had to catch at the start of the show. Mine just happened to be the only comment that wasn't "First" or about time stamps moments after the show ended!

[@Furrfino]

Linus absolutely carried the Colin and Samir interview. They asked pretty small minded questions and Linus, what a saint, entertained it. Curating and guiding his response to answer knowledgeably. He may say he's not good at it, but he is constantly proving he knows how to effectively apply sociological principles in his everyday life.

[@HearMeLearn]

I loved the interview but yeah it was mainly just linus steering the conversation. they asked pretty basic questions and he would really give it his all to answer really thoughtfully and they'd respond like "yeah ok anyway, how many views does your channel have?"

[@PhaythGaming]

I’m a Collin and Samir Fan. They can ask the hard questions. They play to their guests. Linus is a ranter. By steering less, they actually got more out of him. In some other interviews they’re much more directed.

[@Furrfino]

@@PhaythGaming it isn't about asking "hard" questions. the questions they asked weren't insightful. They practically ignored his response to ask rhetorical questions. Wasn't a very good interview imo

[@PhaythGaming]

@@Furrfino I couldn’t disagree more but I guess that’s the beauty of individuality.

[@PrograError]

@@Furrfino it's probably cos the target audience is a bit off center... Linus already know who it is for when he made an explanation to camera on what a snapdragon is.

[@whosscruffylookin95]

Internet outrage culture requires to make perfect decisions in the moment without the benefit of hindsight. You saw something that affected you and chose to end the partnership but the chronically online won't settle for anything other than excessive groveling and exposé. Ignore it.

[@AmoniaLS]

At this point it's like every mistake on the internet needs a 30 minute horror-style expose, a lawsuit, heckling, brigading, apology video, second apology video, second investigation, secret interviews, and some more screaming with pitchforks. Sure go against Paypal (Honey), see what happens.

[@herranton]

​@@AmoniaLSHorror style needs no hyphen. Exposé coming.

[@DotADBX]

Without actually knowing anything about either honey controversy or ever following up on it later, I always found the whole concept sketchy to begin with i think I suspected they were primarily were focused on selling user data for profit but they clearly were doing other things instead or possibly on top.

[@misfitmanic]

It’ was always sus. When EBay/PayPal got involved I knew it was bad.

[@tracktornator]

Yeah I remember seeing KZbinrs promoting it and just knew it would turn out to be another piece of spyware. Fortunately/Unfortunately many years of using the internet had already taught me that downloading something that will "save me money" was more likely to have downsides than upsides. It was bound to go wrong tbh.

[@Music-if1nv]

Same here.

[@zaxbit]

I remember it working decent for 1 year until likely the under the table deals started… so I uninstalled it. It really feels like the general public needs to understand how free products make money.

[@schassis_eddi]

I love when I accidentally have the next video played via my AirPods or I accidentally touch a video in recommended while I’m locking my screen and I completely loose where I was at in a WAN show video.

[@PhaythGaming]

Is this a real issue for you? I regularly do this and have no trouble finding where I was. Usually 10 seconds max.

[@EpicWolverine]

KZbin can be touchy about remembering your spot but I’ve had much more consistent success by pulling to refresh the page and making sure the red progress bar on the thumbnail moves. I often download WAN and listen to it in the car, so when I get to my destination I pause, mentally note the time, close the video, and pull to refresh the downloads page 2-3 times until that progress bar updates. Then tapping on the video brings me to about the right spot.

[@XDRosenheim]

May I recommend GrayJay? It remembers where you last was in a video.

[@RobFalla]

I have had the same experience. The podcast version is a better bet. I listen to the podcasts when out for a walk and the problem you describe is not at all an issue on podcasts.

[@blazewardog]

I don't understand why KZbin thinks that if I'm not in a playlist and I have auto play off why there even /is/ a next video. Hitting next should do /nothing/.

[@kexec.]

I mean you knew the whole situation and decided not to cover it by your choice. but when someone decided to speak out about this topic, you should aware they will ask why you did this and it's expected question. I kinda disappointed how you handle with these controversial issues that you need to think more careful with your tone and action.Victimizing yourself doesn't help either.

[@Adam1984_]

I gotta give Linus credit for shutting down that whole "LTT was arguably the biggest channel" thing. MrBeast is more than 20 times larger than LTT in terms of subscriber count. There is no argument there that makes a bit of sense.

[@gibenameplox]

Nah, LTT is a tech savy channel (Mr. Beast is a greedy entertainment hole) and they actually learned about the cookie thing, instead of saying anything they only covered their bases. The criticism here is about LTT lack of community help/action and that people expects more from them in these topics.

[@adenrius]

@@gibenameplox LTT only learnt about the cookie thing because others were already talking about it in the content creator space. LTT could have amplified this already existing knowledge sure, but this is rich to blame them for not doing that.

[@grumpyratt2163]

@@gibenameplox he posted it on the ltt forum FFS

[@edgarrivas6438]

If I don't mis-remember the video, they don't claim LTT was the biggest, but 3rd biggest. His gripe is "LTT is tech savvy and usually looks out for their audience. Why didn't they this time?" I believe he even mentions how it's good that they cut ties with Honey, but should have said why, since next to nobody else was talking about the affiliate code hijacking. That's not to say LTT was wrong or whatever, I agree with Linus and their response to this as a whole. I'm aware this is a nitpick, please don't bully me too hard, and correct me if I'm wrong! I'm always eager to learn and correct myself!

[@andrei283]

it's cause LTT is a tech channel therefore they should be able to tell people tech related software scams like honey

[@publiusii4246]

On the whole scandal note. I think the only things that would make me have to stop watching LTT is 1. Linus knowingly lied in a review for money 2. SA/CSAM shit. Other than that there'd be nuance at the very least. Linus: Commits murder. Me: ok but who/why

[@gamingmarcus]

Concerning the "how to keep your steam account safe" my advise is to buy at least one physical copy of a game and keep the activation code stored away. If you can prove that you own the physical code you'll get your account back 100%.

[@vudu5vudu]

For those of us old enough to remember PC's before the internet, AKA in magazines, RIP Gordan

[@LimeymanZero]

I think the emphasis on you guys and the Honey situation was just because you were the only ones to talk to him, so you were the only ones he could really talk about. The old line about: two types of people, those who can extrapolate from incomplete data... is pretty true here. I won't need a video telling me if you had to drop Vessy as a sponsor, I could work out that there was finally some push back over the "100% waterproof" thing and you parted ways or some other business reason. I think if it was a dbrand breakup, Dog forbid, that would be a different matter and people might expect some kind of announcement.

[@orlagh277]

yeah it's kind of jarring to see how ltt seems to be getting more vitriol than even honey. there were definitely creators that also dropped honey and said nothing. they're the victims, but ltt is not somehow.

[@nachik09]

Something like this which from their perspective only affects creators, I’m not sure they are obligated to inform consumers of.

[@Novastrous]

Do you see any other youtubers announce they are dropping sponsers

[@hackspawn1]

@@Novastrous yes, pretty consistently

[@NCISCherno]

@@orlagh277 LTT knew a scam was in progress. Identified it and ended their relationship with them. But then that story didn't even make it into a WAN Show episode? The podcast with some very low thresholds for topics. The only assumption one can make is they chose to avoid mentioning it for some reason. Whether correct or not, it's a conclusion someone will get to.

[@sanjacobs6261]

I get it. Affiliate ripping wasn't the worst part, it was already known about, and it was the only thing Linus knew about. Not sufficient reason to make a video about it.

[@PatalJunior]

Yeah makes sense

[@t3cube]

Consider that just because you used to spend 4k on a pc doesn't meen that the averaged income also scaled to make the similar purchase feasible. 2k usd is far too much. This is approaching datacenter levels of cash

[@NCISCherno]

Knowing he got scammed and kept quiet about it and did not warn others is absolutely a reason to make it a WAN Show topic at a minimum.

[@finderrio]

but sufficient reason to atleast investigate further, no?

[@80085lol]

@@NCISChernoThis. A WAN show topic costs them nothing in production. If they wanted to talk about it (and should have) they had a platform for it other than their forum.

[@MattMcMatt]

Can't wait for the RTX 6090 at 6999.69 $

[@MomentaryPixels]

I won't pay any more that 6942.00. It's just not that nice of a number otherwise.

[@rob8355]

@@MomentaryPixels Surly, it would be $6969.69.

[@XDRosenheim]

Stop buying Nvidia?

[@GreatOne0815]

Just buy the 6080 for only 4999. ;)

[@adrien5116]

Click on ad to cart, click on the little h at the top right corner of your browser and honey finds discount codes automatically . Your graphics card is now at 5949.9$

[@ScamCast]

The least he could have done was warn his fans about the extensions malicious behavior when he first found out, since he was the one who got them to install it in the first place.

[@X314G]

The picture Megalag used of Linus in the thumbnail is diabolical 😂

[@nato4018]

I think the argument for you having the largest voice in the honey thing is not that you were the largest voice promoting it but the largest voice promoting it that had the technical knowledge to see through it and know better

[@shaunrust2123]

They still said to stop using it so how had do they haft to force you to listen to them do they need to pick up after you and clean your room

[@overlorddoge1952]

@@shaunrust2123 They should have made a video most people don't check the forums LOL

[@Jaynat_SF]

What technical knowledge? The knowledge of how affiliate links work? I'm pretty sure any content creator that uses affiliate links should have the technical knowledge of how affiliate links work.

[@christopherwells7869]

​​@@Jaynat_SFThe issue isn't not knowing how affiliate links work, it's them not knowing that honey secretly overwrites the affiliate link even when it doesn't find a discount on the product.

[@RafunkV]

So megalag could only find a couple posts about the affiliate thing and assumed that was all there ever was written about it? Maybe he should make a video about how bad google search is now

[@Gobbbbb]

Nah, it makes it seem like he's the hero in all of this and dramatises the situation for more engagement. I can't say I blame Megalag for this, because ultimately, the video reaches more people. I just don't think the full on hate directed at LTT is warranted. Yes, they probably should've said at least something, but what hard hitting evidence could they give out to the public? They had nothing, other than a tip off and a phone call.

[@benwu7980]

I'm not on LTT forum, but the post featured in that video wasn't just from any user, it was by Colton back in March 2022. Admin on forum, head of business team, fired more often than I change my socks, and very clearly stated exactly why stopped working with Honey. Really not sure why the video focused so heavily on LTT alone out of many similar, or larger sized channels. I think all the cookie changes shown were LMG channels, ShortCircuit in particular. The newer information regarding how Honey has also been working with the stores is the news, so not sure why MegaLag made that first video so directed towards the biggest creator that explicitly stated the affiliate shenanigans almost 3 years ago.

[@jasonmollett5308]

2:49:46 the bigger problem with Honey is that it affects affiliate links for people who didn't receive sponsorship money. The damage is already done.

[@rohitmanaktala]

Sounds like a contractual gag to not criticise Honey and content creators all let each other know about it around the same time

[@dedantisocial3315]

In my opinion driving near 100 in a school zone is more dangerous than checking your phone while driving. Both are bad but I still think it's worse. And yes it was a school zone. There were signs after the children at play sign.

[@books2569]

Couple of points on why I think the community is disappointed. You said it yourselves, you were victimized by honey. You were aware that honeys business model was and could potentially victimize other creators. Yet LTT made no concerted effort to expose it. I think the argument on whether it’s fair to expect LTT to make a large expose on this scam boils down to something as simple as “with great power comes great responsibility”. In the example you used on if you were the biggest channel sponsored by honey, the argument was that you were the biggest channel that KNEW this was actively going on, and you were in the perfect position to expose it because 1. You’re in the review space, where confrontational criticism is a common occurrence. 2 LTT is a competent, and reputable channel, with the capacity to understand what was happening. 3. LTT has built a reputation on protecting the community from bad bargains, scams etc. I think this is the brunt as to why I and many in the community are a bit disappointed.

[@natalimoina]

LTT is not reputable anymore, they probably got paid off or something

[@jasonmollett5308]

I think the inclusion of LTT in the Honey video was there because someone from LTT responded to one email but not the follow-up. The other creators were shown selling themselves like cheap prostitutes for some of that Honey money. I had privacy concerns with Honey when it came out. Nothing is free.

[@irasychan]

Getting everything else done to "make it easier" to work on the bike, except for actually working on the bike itself is very ADHD. Next update will be Linus showing some equipment that he got to again "make it easier."

[@Deb_Boi]

I love how stupid people are about this. They did everything right. They were a victim who also reported this issue on public forms and people are upset that they didn't report it louder? This wasn't something they needed to make a full scale production video on. It's not a type of video that they would make. So many other creators knew about it and they had the exact same opportunity to report it yet didn't (except for those who did). Y'all need to grow up and stop jumping on a LTT hate wagon for anything when it's not even their fault. They were a victim and you are upset that they didn't tell their story? They aren't required to tell their story to you when they are scammed.

[@Furrfino]

@@Deb_Boi It's sad that this opinion is a minority opinion, even tho it's correct

[@rynolin342]

​@@Deb_Boi absolutely agree. Lots of misinformed people going after LTT because they either don't know the full history of LTT already having responded or don't understand it's not something they would make a full video on. They already took the corrective action and it's not their responsibility to moderate the entirety of KZbin like people are asking them to do. The top comment on this video is asking them to have done a better job reaching out to other KZbinrs to warn them. It's not their job to spend time doing that they are running their own business not spending all day contacting everyone who advertised Honey likey they are KZbin moderators.

[@natan_amorim_moraes]

"They did everything right", well if I remember it correctly they just said they were cutting ties with honey and didn't disclosure why, it's not something that bothers me but I definitely understand people complaining about that and would not say "They did everything right".

[@rynolin342]

@@natan_amorim_moraes They are running a business and that's how you announce something like that professionally. Of course you wouldn't understand it but if you said "oh yeah Honey is a fucking scam so we dumped them" in a post blasting them your other sponsors will probably think twice about doing business with you. LTT is a business not a KZbin moderator.

[@natan_amorim_moraes]

​@@rynolin342 I understand it and that's why I said "it's not something that bothers me", however they have done this many times before so I guess that creates expectation from others...

[@danburycollins]

It's sounds like a key point is that the Megalag video (allegedly) fails to represent the awareness amongst the KZbinrs community about the affiliate links issue - making it seem that LTT had discovered this themselves and 'kept quiet about it' - whereas LTT are claiming this was common knowledge at the time and that lots of people broke off with the business as a result. If the LTT claim is accurate then it amounts to Megalag lying in his video so that he can take credit for discovering the affiliate link issue - when this was common knowledge.

[@PrograError]

Pretty sure there's a sort of a spin factory around this... the video is definitely a vague surface research that's biased on only LTT and little of other channels.

[@prakharchaurasiya8107]

It's just MegaLag trying to farm views. Don't think too hard about it.

[@Dat_Typ]

I would suggest that, simply considering the current reactions, this may have been relatively common knowledge among creators, but not under fans. Maybe people reported on it, but nobody saw it. What I'm trying to say is, that there wouldn't be so many surprised people, if this was ever truly "common" knowledge. Maybe some big creators knew or whoever, but the communities seem to clearly not have. Sort of an "open secret" situation.

[@MrNicvdb]

The MegaLag video for most people that watched it was the first time they had been made aware of any of the issues including the affiliate code swapping. I think the emphasis on LTT was because LTT was aware of this but did not make a video to inform their viewers. Whether or not that's fair is up for discussion imo.

[@charlescaldwell625]

they discuss lesser situations that causes issues for people in the tech world they should be doing their part to inform people of a shitty business practice when it causes issues for them and other content creators. Did they know about the extra stuff I dunno but they still should be holding up their end when they have stuff like WAN show and tech news to report on it.

[@monty58]

Linus mentioned it in passing, but it's a good point, that when it happened, there had been other people reporting on it and making videos, and had LTT made a video, it could've easily been seen as stealing the scoop from them. The problem is, it didn't really blow up, and most of the public didn't hear about it, so the Megalag video feels like the a completely new exposé

[@PhaythGaming]

I definitely think it’s a lose lose for them. If they report it then, everyone would say they were stealing from other people. If they do as they did, people complain now. There is no winning here.

[@ceoherohub2584]

@@PhaythGamingThere is no winning here if you value your reputation with other potential business partners but if you care about your reputation with the public staying silent when you have a platform on an important issue…speaks VOLUMES.

[@ceoherohub2584]

Nobody likes a whistleblower but that shouldn’t stop them from bringing important hidden information to the masses.

[@alexjamesbilodeau]

Thank you for everything in 2024, Linus. You bring me joy on a daily basis.

[@theFrizzleFry]

Here is another angle to, why you could have made a video about the situation, when you were made aware of it: You advertised Honey to your audience in many videos, so it's safe to assume that a lot of people installed the extension. Especially as the pitch was pretty intriguing (or, too good to be true) Informing your audience about the situation and telling them, that using honey hurts the creators, maybe explain how to use affilite links without honey being able to get last click, would have made you money. And as a side effect it would have raised awareness with other creators.

[@chiranjeevinaidu3660]

I don't think LTT is completely wrong, people and other content creators are misinterpreting this to a great extent. MegaLag wanted LTT to escalate this issue, but LTT talked to them and did not find the reason to escalate, but rather discontinued their partnership. LMG/LTT is not the only firm or channel in this mess a lot of tech channels are involved, and this issue runs deep even more deeper than just affiliate fraud, there is potential for personal data violations, and as megalag pointed even businesses getting affected by this. And Megalag clearly pointed out that LTT was a example and this was common in many channels in different categories. Its not viable to blame LTT for all the crap paypal honey has been doing.

[@brandon-22]

LTT found it and swept it under the rug. In my book they were complicit. LTT shows it's money first organization. I don't expect MKHBD to even get phone specs right let alone bring any value. On LTT side it was always questionable since they're part of low tier high volume entertainment with some real gems

[@XanGious]

@@brandon-22In your opinion do you think every KZbinr who dropped honey because of this ordeal without publicly stating the reason to their audience are complicit?

[@chiranjeevinaidu3660]

@@brandon-22 I won't put LMG in such a low category, but yes I agree this was complicit. We must also consider this, a lot of people in the tech world did not know the extent of it, it was ignorant for sure but, was it something they knew and ignored? I don't think so, cause this is a creator's dream to find such extreme content that can get millions of views over night, from a revenue and marketing standpoint if LMG first made this public (assuming they knew everything) they would make some real good money. Just saying my opinion.

[@Schatten.mensch]

Regarding the honey stuff - it's the kind of thing where it would have been cool to make it more public back in the day to warn others who perhaps haven't heard the news but it is also too small for a video - so a WAN segment would be pretty much the best thing that could have been done (and to be clear, I did not go back and check if you talked about it on WAN, I just don't care enough) But at most it was just a mistake to not adress it and a mistake is not a big deal. And regarding the 5090 ... hey, if I had Linus money I'd get one as well, can't blame him ^^

[@XDRosenheim]

32:00 - Dan leeks plans to remodel the WAN show set in a few months! (See Message in bottom) Fun fact - This is show number 157 with this set. Colors have changed a bit, but set is the same.

[@criznittle968]

Gordon, oh nooooo oh nooooo, we loved and will miss you - always

[@Skoldpadden]

I get it, I appreciate you guys talking about it, I absolutely hate WAN show autoplaying after seemingly every single video I finish. KZbin's ass

[@Matkatamiba]

I think the only thing was "it was public news" when it was kind of only news in the tech space. Most people, creators or not, don't know anything about cookie hijacking and stuff, and you're kind of the tech news people who inform people of stuff like this. I get you don't want to make a habit of publicly shaming recent sponsors, but it was probably shady enough to at least throw it in tech linked or something somewhere. That's the gist of it. I'm not really angry about it, just that's mostly what the video was getting at.

[@CanIHasThisName]

They don’t inform people about stuff like this, that’s pretty much a lie. It’s just not the kind of content they do. It was public knowledge that creators did act on and LMG found out the same way everyone else did. Why is LMG supposed to be THE ONE to make a video? Why not literally everyone else?

[@squngy0]

@@CanIHasThisName Why not have multiple people do it? People don't all watch the same channels, if you want to reach as many as possible you need as many people as possible to say something.

[@CanIHasThisName]

@ There already were multiple people doing it.

[@Dat_Typ]

@@CanIHasThisName To me it kinda feels like everyone who knew kinda forgot to really tell the community at any point. LTT didn't, and equally, nobody else who knew did either. Imo, to their own disadvantage. People aren't gonna stop using it, just because they've been quietly dropped as a sponsor.

[@CanIHasThisName]

@@Dat_Typ That’s kinda ignoring the fact that this was discussed and reported on back then. It was. It just wasn’t gaining any traction because it was affecting pretty much nobody in the audience.

[@billymonkey111]

Given the hard line you've taken with other sponsors it's very very odd you haven't spoken about this on wan show even.

[@sireuchre]

You gave ~$3k to the family's fundraiser. Nice work, sir.

[@Eder-bk5mm]

@@Sedowynt Have you donated anything, though?

[@jessiethedude]

@@SedowyntWilliam Santos smashed everyone except Falcon NW

[@Seed]

@Eder-bk5mm He isn't a millionaire?

[@sireuchre]

@@Sedowynt Just can't say 'thank you', eh? How much did you give?

[@j.d.8593]

@@Sedowynt Is not a competition you absolute 🤡

[@Jourei_]

I would like it if you were to mention why you will never work with a company again, even just by passing on WAN show. Surely there's a significant event that warrants a ban or hiatus.

[@GoodGamer3000]

I honestly don't get the hate directed towards LTT on the Honey situation. If they only knew about the affiliate hijacking, they'd have no reason to believe it'd affect regular consumers. An "I Got Scammed" video without a warning that would benefit general users doesn't really seem like LTT's style. At that time, I think the general consensus was still 'it saves you money,' so I don't even know how it would be received. I wouldn't be surprised if in an alternate universe where Linus made a bigger deal about it, there'd be people criticizing him for being a 'big, greedy KZbinr complaining about losing some affiliate revenue.' Maybe a segment on the WAN show about it would've been good, but I don't feel like LTT was under any obligation to make a big deal out of calling Honey out.

[@PhaythGaming]

Never mind that they would be reporting on other peoples information and they’ve been lynched for taking credit in the past.

[@Gobbbbb]

Honestly, I agree at this point. Also, if Linus did make a video, what "proof" did he have? All he had was a tip off and that he spoke on the phone with Honey, which cannot be posted unless he tells them it's being recorded. Honestly, who would've believed Honey was doing that with NO evidence at the time? It's not his job to investigate their wrong doings...

[@Freestyle80]

and people here pretend like LTT should’ve done a long investigation on it “for the good of the community” seriously what

[@bobhanson1037]

​@@Gobbbbb ok then don't make a huge video, just make a quick video saying "hey we dropped honey for various reasons, so if you're one of our awesome fans who installed it we think you should uninstall and this is how!". Or is that to much for them?

[@Gobbbbb]

@@bobhanson1037 No because people would've attacked him for that too. And i'll tell you why. At the time, he was only aware it affected him (the creator) right? People would've seen that as "Hey, please uninstall this app that saves you money because they're taking our affiliate commission from our multi-million dollar company" The video wouldn't have gone down well, you have to remember, people will complain about anything and everything. Now, if he knew it wasn't giving people the best deals in the first place, then that's a different story, and he even said if he knew that at the time, he most likely would've mentioned it on here like previous sponsors. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[@choloist]

15:26 I have a memory of LTT mentioning that honey has the best deals for the consumer because either honey get paid by the companies to give consumers these “coupons”. Or the other way around but I still have a memory of someone mentioning such a thing.

[@Jeffmylife]

I see why Linus gets annoyed with the immature and negative followers. They’re loud, confident, and wrong. Linus is not responsible for spreading awareness of every bad business practice he encounters. This is a technology channel. Our tech is powered by metals mined with unethical labor. If Linus were responsible for whistle-blowing all the gross practices of third parties LMG interacts with, this would be an activism channel. To the drama-hungry- grow up. Either channel your disdain in a way where it can make society better or just throw it out.

[@NDM800]

I’d say he is responsible if he takes money to promote an active scammy business.

[@ItssBrian]

He didn’t just “encounter” honey. He promoted them. If it was enough of an issue for him to stop working with them he should have let people know by the same means he promoted them: with video that millions of people watch as opposed to a forum that a few thousand people read. No one is claiming he should be liable, just that he should have told people what he knew.

[@iSupermanCKi]

​@@NDM800 Didn't he drop them as a sponsor?

[@theman4821]

Mate, his various channels have made countless videos disparaging companies for bad anti-consumer practices. (Ex. Nintendo is one example from the top of my head). The fact that LTT promoted a browser extension, found out that they it worked was dubious and may not have been in the best interest of his audience, and chose to not inform us, is rather concerning. Its a breach of trust that makes me very hesitant in the future to trust anything they sponsor.

[@crystallakedood]

I think there's a distinct difference between bringing awareness to an issue, and making a big deal out of it. I would say there's value in pointing it out, but the HOW is important. Let people make their own choices, but there's something to be said for using the platform for making people aware. He's not *responsible*, but it would be the responsible thing to do, if that makes sense. While there's sometimes nothing we can reasonably do, there often times is, and making people aware isn't necessarily a call to action or virtue signaling.

[@MyNameJameBoy]

Linus torments his editing staff regularly when a video does not perform to his standards. This has been going on for years. He his horribly lactose intollerant and purposely eats a dairy heavy diet while only using the bathroom in the editing den of LMG. This retaliation goes as far as disabling the fan in said bathroom. Luke Lafreniere, does this count? Also I'm upset that I never had the game console tier lis recommended to me

[@dalejones6487]

When did KZbinrs have to take on the role of saviours? LTT found out one of its sponsors was being shady, they dropped them. LTT dont actually have any requirement on them to tell us that, or indeed even other KZbinrs. Im glad a smaller creator gets their 5 minutes of fame, but LTT didnt actually do anything other businesses wouldnt have done, in fact they did more than some would with the forum post. Honestly its simple, if you dont like it, stop watching otherwise, accept that people on the internet arent always your friends and don't have to tell you things and move on.

[@hackspawn1]

well, linus took on that role when he made it a thing to call out scummy sponsors on his channel, he created a higher standard for himself

[@dts1845]

Well said, it's just another example of LTT's transparency being used to slap them. If that post wasn't there, there would have been no focus on them, and they would have simply been on the list of creators who got bamboozled.

[@Nosapaw]

​​@@hackspawn1first, no, Linus never "took that role" and LTT isn't a drama channel. And he literally explains the difference in the video 💀 they don't and are not going to make an exposing video everytime they drop a sponsor, specially when they don't see it as a massive threat for the consumer, and that's what happened with honey, stop whining

[@hackspawn1]

@@dts1845 a forum post isn't transparency, that's like posting an apology video on a second channel or whispering at a rave

[@finderrio]

@@Nosapaw Honey clearly engaged in unethical and illegal behaviour, so why wouldn't that extend to the consumer as well? It's a fairly logical next step, and it atleast begs the question.

[@TobaxSkosto]

Linus, Honey is running a promo code on your store that is taking $45 off the new backpack... that's nearly 1/3 of the price being taken off

[@User-ju3zg]

It feels like a lot of people only read headlines or thumbnails and assume the Honey controversy is only about creators getting scammed. But if you watch and read the full investigation, Honey users were absolutely also scammed. It’s not just “boo boo creators” . Honey users were using a product they thought was helping them save money, when in fact it wasn’t

[@toofanincoming786]

that's what personal data does for you

[@Altemeous]

While true, that's not why I'm airing out my disagreement. As mentioned on this podcast, LTT wasn't aware of those other aspects of Honey, which is fair. However, the way they turned the page was leaving a half-explained message on a forum topic, where the massive majority of users will never explore, then cite some random tweet as informing the masses of the fraud. They would have been better off not addressing it altogether, at least they could have feigned total ignorance.

[@Freestyle80]

how would LTT know that?

[@CanIHasThisName]

But that’s a more recent problem with the product.

[@jefflem]

But ltt didn’t know that. At the time

[@jaredandrew9906]

You should have told us what tf was going on. Point blank period. We trust you so quit ducking smoke

[@bL4KcfYREz]

the honey video did focus on ltt a weird amount but I took that as megalag just being more familiar with ltt than anyone else at the top of the list. it was never a direct attack, just someone who knows that linus has a good moral compass. If I was linus, I would have called out honey publicly, at least on the wan show or something. that being said, it's not a big deal that you didn't. also why are you so caught up on being a liar? are people actually saying that? because I havent seen it

[@ApfelJohannisbeere]

Yet again, thanks for the fun and informative WAN show!

[@Cedricket]

A forum is not publicly stating. Also even if you didnt know about anything other than the affiliate links. The whole issue is that you are a TECH based channel basing itself on honesty and transparency. And you knew something that was hurting creators yet decided to quietly move away. Yes there were OTHERS but thats not an excuse to justify YOUR behavior at the end of the day. You were #3 promoter, many already dislike Mr.Beast. You are not meant to be “others” like beast but i guess you are and THATS the disappointing part.

[@Dje4321]

I do think more transparency would have been useful in regards to the honey situation. From outsider perspective, quietly dropping them and posting it on the forum looks like an attempt to keep it on the down low. A VAST majority of your viewers do not even engage with the forum and would never have found out about it if it wasnt for the video in the first place. I could easily be swayed that you were complicit in their theft because you were made aware of it and did not ensure everyone was properly notified. Its needs to be handled like your framework investment with the breakup being both public and ugly. 16 million additional people could have been informed instead of the 100k that might have seen the post. When you accept a sponsorship, your not only endorsing the product, but the company as well. You will never hear its a good product made by terrible people. Its always its a great product made by great people. I really like how GN handles this kinda stuff. Take the recent NZXT issue as an example. It was both very public and very ugly with a community post dedicated to the permanent sponsor ban, a video detailing the issue at large and the issues they had with it, as well as additional community posts preventing them from trying to get ahead of the story. TL;DR, The forum is a place for discussion, not announcements. When your aware of a sponsor scamming people, you have to make sure its louder than the noise otherwise it feels like you didnt try.

[@peter65zzfdfh]

GN are extremely unethical. They outright lied about LTT and admitted doing so and not doing basic fact checking, and far from apologizing, they still don’t realize what they did was poor journalism. As far as LTT knew honey was saving users money, and it absolutely *was* even when they dropped them. The issue was creators, which was already a well publicized fact at the time. It didn’t need more publicity, and they would have been publicly condemned for asking users to remove an extension that was saving users money while costing LTT. Videos are for things the audience should care about, and affiliates as a video no one would have watched. And putting up videos no one watches *kills* a channel, which is why people publicizing the honey *issue* etc are sensationalizing it for clicks. Other creators have audiences that come to them for whatever mountain they’ve made out of a molehill this week. LTT users come for entertainment and new tech, not affiliate marketing deep dives.

[@noahjaybee]

Re: Honey, i think folks are just so used to seeing folks blow up any drama possible that they don't think about why a video would actually get made. If creators were the ones being screwed over (as Linus says they knew, before the end user issues were revealed) it would just look whiney for that creator to make a video exposing how they didn't make money. It would be really tone deaf to come from a large creator who makes a lot of money from their sponsorships.

[@Boroda4Gaming]

dude, what is happening again? Is LTT being targeted by someone? There are not that many "below 80 point" people in the real world, these comments must be some sort of a campaign

[@wycliffe_ndiba]

Today's title: I got beans, greens, potatoes, tomatoes, lamb, ram, hogs, dogs

[@jwr6796]

Man, I barely use Honey but I've kept it installed (one of three extensions) FOR YEARS because I knew it came recommended by most of my fav KZbinrs, LTT at the top of the list. I don't think LTT had any obligation to do any more than sever ties, but damn if I didn't hear even a whisper of their misdeeds until today (EDIT: "their" meaning Honey's). Do with that what you will. Oh, and Luke Luke Luke Luke

[@bobhanson1037]

So as a long time fan. Would you of liked it if they made a quick PSA about their sponsors if they sever ties with them over these type of issues? Or would not saying anything be preferred?

[@jwr6796]

​@@bobhanson1037 That's the thing is that I don't think of LTT as a muck-raking reporter channel, and I don't think they necessarily need to make a big to-do about dropping sponsors. Like, nobody would have any difference of opinion on Euphy if they didn't catch that WAN episode, right? And not everyone watches WAN. It's just wild to me that I didn't hear any hint that Honey was anything other than amazing ANYWHERE in 3+ years. Maybe that's on me, but it really highlights issues inherent to sponsor integrations in general, too. Like, I get that sponsor reads are paid, but the genuine excitement with which some creators sell the brands can really make it seem like a legit recommendation.

[@albal156]

Really think the 5090 is gonna be $2000. 2500 wouldn't be out of the question.

[@andresmithe298]

I think the issue is that you were the creator with the loudest megaphone that knew and it could have been a WAN topic. I for one would have immediately uninstalled it if I knew it was ripping off content creators. A 30s clip of you informing people that Honey poached affiliate links probably would have made the rounds on Twitch and Twitter. Yes, a lot of people stopped working with Honey in the early 2020s. A lot didn't. Now combine that with you guys being one of the largest Honey sponsors on the platform. Countless people installed Honey cause of your sponsor spots. A lot of your content is evergreen, viewers are likely still coming across those spots and installing Honey. I do think that if you've prominently promoted a company you should let your audience know when they turned out to be scummy.

[@ExcuseTheSaltImLearning]

So this is what gaslighting is like. "No it's not." Gaslighting 100

[@sephondranzer]

Why won’t the damn comments load? I need you timestamps man!

[@TetraSky]

Because there were no comments. They had just finished streaming.

[@Matt561]

Just watch the whole thing

[@sky0kast0]

Different time even if you're going time for it take 60 minutes to track a full wan show and that's in one sitting

[@Minetheground]

@@Matt561 while video editing

[@NoKi1119]

They were posted a while ago, look at my community post.

[@jeo2222]

It does seem very unfair to tar lmg for honey, I wonder if the decision to portray them that way in the megalag video helped with viewership. I can also understand Linus defending mkbhd but I wonder if he feels the same way when people speed around the neighborhood where his kids play

[@TRINITY687]

I only watched their video last night. Just because Linus' picture was in the video picture. So I clicked it.

[@TRINITY687]

Ubisoft tomb raider. I have 3080 ti too. But Ryzen 5 2600 on a b450. Lol. But at least I got a 2tb m.2 @7300 Mbps.

[@XxZannexX]

After watching the Honey segment and seeing people still comment how Linus isn’t getting it. These are the ones who have aren’t here to have clarification. They have a set agenda who isn’t going to listen anyway.

[@davidweiss5000]

I struggle a little with this, guys. But yes first and foremost you (meaning the whole company) were a victim. And I have no clue why you are in the line of fire at the forefront. You weren’t even the biggest tech channel (MKBHD). But: You encouraged users to use this service and you ended it, cause this service scammed you. I think there is a responsibility to inform people on the same way you encouraged them. Yes, the information was publicly available years ago. But so was the fact that honey existed. And yet you took the money and promoted them. Saying that you back then couldn’t have known that there were problems for the enduser? After they scammed you, you didn’t even consider this? I think, what people wanted to hear from you is a pledge that you will make the reasons public in a sufficient way when you end a working relationship with a sponsor cause of a scam. I know some people want you to apologize. But you were the main victim. So I don’t think you have to. But be transparent if there is a problem with a partner you promoted. Saying that others knew it doesn’t cut it, if you were paid to push the service IMO.

[@instachocolate]

Linus has almost been too transparent all along that some people take for granted that they are entitled to know EVERYTHING going on in the business office.

[@Helion_Prime]

9:57 - Megalag's video. Didn't find a timestamp for it, so here ya go.

[@DB-dg9lh]

You should all be pissed at PayPal. How do people continue using services that completely screw you over?

[@fighterguard]

Man, $25 for shipping + 21% VAT really makes it not worth it to order anything for shipping to the Netherlands. Even with the $30 discount, the commuter backpack comes out to €175 when all is said and done 😩 I only ordered the regular backpack, plus some other random crap, when there was free worldwide shipping. I'll stick with that one. It works just fine.

[@JuanHerrera1]

I watched the video and i don't think he was blaming LTT at all

[@Speejays2]

I agree, but that doesn't seem to be the takeaway a lot of viewers seemed to get out of it. Going by the comments, a lot of people seem to think Linus was just as guilty as Honey was for some reason.

[@kubotite9168]

@@Speejays2 because after the Gamer Nexus controversies hating on Linus is the meta right now..He is the worse tech creator that ever live to them

[@Morkins324]

I can totally understand the thought process that would lead to deciding that a video wasn't necessary. There were other videos from other creators that had brought up the issues and LTT had learned about the issue from public posts about the issue. It wasn't like LTT was discovering something that was unknown to the general public. It was simply something that hadn't gained traction because the general public didn't really care about it. It didn't impact end users. I'm sure that the thought process was "Well, there have been videos and posts about this for several years now. If the public cared about it then it would have gone viral already." I also think that there is a distinct possibility that LTT making a video about it several years ago could have easily prompted a public reaction of "Oh, look at this millionaire complaining about how a billionaire is stealing money from him." Especially if they didn't also have the accompanying information about how Honey was screwing over its End Users. If all that they had was information about the affiliate skimming, but everything else seemed legit, then I am sure that a not insignificant amount of viewers would've held the opinion that Honey is saving them money and benefits them, therefore the affiliate skimming isn't that bad. "If rich influencers have to be screwed over to save me money, why should I care?" Plenty of people have that sort of "Fuck you, I got mine" attitude. It is only when you add the wrinkle of "Well... Honey was also screwing over its End Users" that public opinion turns. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" so to speak. I got screwed by Honey. The influencers got screwed by Honey. Now we are aligned against Honey and I care about what happened to the influencers because it helps to support my own argument against Honey. It is hard to blame LTT for not deciding to run headlong into something that honestly could have just backfired on them. In hindsight, obviously I think people care about it perhaps more than was apparent several years ago. But I also think it is unreasonable to assume that public reaction would have been the same several years ago if this was made more public in a different way... Everything is a product of circumstance. An LTT video 3 years ago might not have achieved the same result or gotten the same reaction as the current MegaLag video.

[@NewWave3313]

I have a 3080 myself and I just see no need to spend thousands and thousands of dollars on a 50 series card. What game needs that? All these AAA games these days are just sad garbage, and all the good older ones still run just fine on a 30 series card. I certainly have no need to cave to get anything new for gaming.

[@okovarik]

For example simulators in VR benefit greatly. (MSFS, ACC…) But it is up to you what you want to play. You’re right that the prices are ridiculous now.

[@Watzleroviak1210]

Me too, but it's getting to the point where I want at least a 4080 Super.

[@adenrius]

I have a 3080 too, and funnily enough one of the games I have issue to play with due to a lack of vRAM is... modded Rimworld.

[@costafilh0]

Regarding last year's "drama", I believe it was completely expected. Even if we don't judge before knowing all the facts, the possibility of it being true already makes many people not want to watch the content until the matter is resolved.

[@dcmorales]

Would be nice to have an actual "Tech Tip" about informing users to uninstall Honey. :)

[@user-dn5bx2iu3e]

@1:54:20 The canadian legal system is brutal when it comes to those allegations. Be grateful it wasn't worse.

[@Decadentotter]

My biggest problem with the whole Honey situation is that it's yet another example of KZbin sponsorships being a scam/low quality product. As a KZbin viewer I feel so much less inclined to try any new sponsored products because I'm just waiting for the issues to pop up instead of trying something new. This isn't something Linux can fix, but it makes me worried about other creators who may need sponsorship revenue to keep going.

[@khulhucthulhu9952]

did he just say that KZbin is giving them half a million dollars so that people will use youtube shopping? dayum, I'm definitely inclined to take the bargain!

[@Jan12700]

If you did watch the Honey Video, you would know that he is a Fan of LTT and just because of this used you as an example. Also because you are one of the biggest Tech channels and didn't know that they do this for more then a year says that other people who have no understanding of tech would be never finding it out by them self. So you saying something (even it's only a Tweet) like "We found out that Honey does steal your Affiliate Money" would have been enough to warn and inform some people. Better then don't say anything. Also only this way people would uninstall it and you and others would be able to get your Affiliate Money again.

[@HeretixAevum]

I'm just gonna put it this way; I had absolutely ZERO idea about the affiliate code ripping until the megalag video. To me, this suggests quite strongly that a bigger, more mainstream creator singing from the rooftops about it could have prevented a lot of harm years in advance before Megalag got to it. If I had found out about that in 2020 or whenever that aspect of the story originally dropped, I would have gladly stopped using it out of respect for creators. The stuff that is hostile to consumers was just the cherry on the icing for me. Ultimately I'm not mad at LTT for not going super duper public about it, hindsight is 20/20 of course... but I think this should be taken as a lesson that next time something like this happens, you probably should go public, or at very least inform someone like Gamers Nexus (yes, I know) or anyone who does similar tech journalism about it because they will absolutely go to town on the story and rip the offenders a well-deserved new a-hole. You are in the position to facilitate change for the better. Please use it.

[@Enixious99]

How MegaLag managed to "reach out for comment" and still completely fail to clear up a total assumption is beyond me. Sounds like I'll wait until a better video comes out about it. Edit: totally fair that it's still worth watching, just really makes me facepalm so hard, and seems exceedingly preventable.

[@dogbot55]

Unfortunately there probably won't be a better video. Megalag seems to be the only person investigating this

[@pepijn_m]

His video is still good even with LTT being the focus to much and other creators not really getting mentioned other then in images. The research he did was still valid and good. Not sure why he used LTT a lot, probably as it's tech related and Mr Beast viewers or focused on other stuff? Don't know. About putting the blame on LTT for not communicating more, if LTT would have complained to their users it would only seem like they want the affiliate revenue. So I can understand them leaving it alone as when Amazon asked users to remove honey(as they seem to read user data) people complained that Amazon should look at themselfs first. If you don't want to watch that video the one Linus mentions at 11:54 is still solid even if it misses some of the new found info(like knowing that they don't use all known coupons instead of just maybe not finding them)

[@mouseofscorpio]

When was the honey part, I can’t watch the entire video right now.

[@sporemaster18]

The video for the most part is pretty good. The bit I find most egregious from MegaLag is definitely mentioning LTT working with Karma, then bringing up that they do the same thing as Honey without putting the slightest amount of effort into checking if they did the same thing at the time of the sponsorship. That's pure laziness and very misleading to the audience.

[@Gobbbbb]

@@mouseofscorpio 9:00

[@tiredruishi]

The honey scam really highlights just how little the general public understands, and how effortlessly they grab their pitchforks at the first sign of drama.

[@fateunleashed9680]

I don't understand why anyone is upset at LMG, if you also understand this controversy about Honey is over 4 yeas old. All the shady bs and stuff was covered years ago when they dropped honey as a sponsor. LMG as a business decided it's not worth an *EXPOSED* stink being made back then and moved on. It's up to you the end users to keep up on things that you care about. It is not LMG's job to keep people up to speed about past controversies. If one can't be bothered to research a thing, then they forfeit their option to complain about that thing. Put up or shut up! As Gordon wold say....

[@joelpeet]

In 2020/2021 most people would not have care about the Honey situation because most had other things on their mind at the time -> The pandemic and the lockdown. That made the news, even making a whole video about Honey would not have moved the needle then

[@Jan12700]

But even if only one then knows because they did a public post about it, it's better then no one knows.

[@JustinKlazinga]

At some point, Linus is going to need to learn to just stop addressing stupid controversies. Not because it isn't necessarily worthwhile or it is bad or anything, but it definitely isn't very good for one's sanity or mental well-being. Like it or not, the tech community is one of the most toxic "communities" online and at some point you kind of have to just say "it's going to be toxic, so I am only going to address criticism when it is neither stupid or useless, or when I am genuinely in the wrong". Honestly, I would also be willing to bet a lot of the hostility he encounters and described as never-ending is because every week he shows how much it affects him and gives it a platform. MKBHD handled it pretty well. They did something not great, they apologized publically, and offered no back and forth with the community at all, and consequently, it basically died away for having no further fuel. There is literally no reason to do anything else.

[@natan_amorim_moraes]

I feel like the Internet has been getting way too hostile, like it's not like people don't have a point, but it feels like some people are just hungry to find someone to hate and go way overboard

[@Zyphent]

I think Linus can't do that sort of corporate closed off response. He has to engage with individuals, like literally cannot help himself when he is attacked or sees himself misrepresented somehow. And that's hard to do once you get to the size they are with the number of bad faith actors out there. He brought up the retirement thing again on another podcast, and I think one of these controversies will be what finally pushes him to it at some point.

[@larry365]

MKBHD displayed psychopathic behaviour, literally risking the lives of children and really no one cared.. a few affiliate links though... Just incredible.

[@Coldz-1]

I benefited a lot from this channel I learned a lot about technology

[@fujinshu]

@@larry365 A couple of kids or a million livelihoods. Please stop being such a conservative.

[@theaterlightman89]

My mom used to manufacture circuit boards back in the late 90s it’s always fun seeing the blank slate… also fun note she used to coat the boards green, she’d drop the boards in the pma and wake up 20 min later with a few layers of gloves missing… she mentioned only wearing some of the safety equipment when osha was stopping by (they’d get a heads up)

[@PrograError]

I imagine the room filled with smoke... and no mask