Lionel Shriver on Why Identity Politics is Tearing Society Apart

"If anyone aims to put Lionel Shriver straight, white female on my tombstone, I'm definitely getting cremated".
Click on our next video to hear the other side. Stay tuned for the Q&A, the full debate will be published on Monday.

[@Intelligence-Squared]

Has Lionel convinced you that identity politics is tearing society apart?

[@DJMrBig]

@samyoung2000paris If that happens to be the true intended course of identity politics, Leftists will simply be at fault for the rise of a second Führer (Adolph Hitler V2). People like to believe the bad things happen simply because "evil". They don't. There is always a rationale. A reason. Not "evil for the sake of evil". The reason the people of pre-WWII Germany brought Hitler to power is because the Bolsheviks (Communist Revolutionaries) posed an existential to the traditional German way of life, to peoples' livelihoods, and to their culture. They didn't elect to follow Hitler because they were all evil and maniacal, nor were they all stupid. They simply held a common belief that all people have when it comes down to it: 'Better them than Us'

[@postmodernpete6483]

Do t need convincing

[@Kimberly-ks6bu]

Yes

[@Stolat79]

Lionel, among far too few other eloquent orators, is rightfully calling out that the Emperor has no clothes. The woke have forgotten to dress themselves, to the detriment of us all.

[@Stolat79]

@War Dog those on the “left” obsessed with the concept as you stated, “identity is at the core of all decisions” have lost the thread. Which identity? How many of those identities? The “left” by embracing concepts of intersectionalism have opened a huge can of worms, as we can all have an infinite variety of identities given the time of day, the status of our birth, our blood, our sexual desire, our customs, happy or unhappy families. It’s too much. Coalitions cannot be built under this tent of endless identity. So no, I disagree with you War Dog, unless the “left” returns to core LIBERAL first principles they are destined to be mired in petty squabbling whilst the world burns. Class, Wealth, Individual Rights and chuck out the micro-grievance identity groups that can’t seem to get a handle on their emotions.

[@MatthewShute]

This was brilliantly put. Lionel Shriver gets to the heart of what's so dehumanising about reducing someone to a few immutable characteristics, ignoring individuality, placing collective guilt on people for things they didn't do. Share this video with anyone who tells you that identity politics is a force for good in the world.

[@MatthewShute]

@@cyborg1320 If you're a fan of identity politics, pushing an ultra-low resolution view of the world in which everyone is pigeonholed and judged based on a few inborn traits, then there is no "where we want to go". Where you want to go is the opposite of where I do.

[@jodypagody]

Matthew Shute Our collective guilt got Barry H. Obama elected. I want him to be amazing but he played the race card at every opportunity and divided us along racial lines worse than any president ever. Sad!!!

[@danusiaspock9253]

@@jodypagody The fact that you wanted him to be amazing shows that it wasn't just guilt that got him elected. People hoped he would be amazing. The rest of what you say is an indictment of identity politics, and many politicians play that game. It's time to stop rewarding them with our votes.

[@walkerhumphrey181]

Ah yes. So much better to be a lonely consumer mindlessly working your day job until you fall out of the world and everything you've ever known is wiped from the Earth than to be a member of a people and achieve immortality through a lineage stretching in front of behind us for thousands of years.

[@danusiaspock9253]

@@walkerhumphrey181 Rejecting myopic identity politics doesn't necessitate consumerism or loneliness or any such thing. And identity politics is not a way to stop entropy destroying the Earth and the cosmos, or whatever you're blabbing about. It's a superstition to think you can "live on" through a gene (the gene lives on, you do not), and if entropy destroys everything, it also destroys said gene. A 1000 years? Nothing when you're not around to experience it, and it's a negligible speck on a cosmic timeline. You don't have a philosophy at all, you have some pathetic racial vanity or narcissism, which in cosmic terms is also pretty funny.

[@llengsuch3426]

Well said Lionel - the voice of reason in this debate!

[@FrayAdjacentTX]

I'm a bit surprised that Dr Martin Luther King, Jr isn't brought up in something like this. He wanted a world where his children (and all of us) would be judged not by the color of our skin, but the content of our character. Identity politics does exactly the opposite.

[@thenight527]

I couldn't agree more. 👍😎

[@stephenwatkin18]

Sir, you already answered the question.

[@Dremooa]

People in current victim culture who desperately cling to that victimized mentality hate MLK views... They need to be racist towards others to sustain the victim status. Scream falsehoods at another group while participating in that behavior you are accuse of if pretty powerful when backed by all media and no need to present factual reasoning.

[@WilfChadwick]

David lammy is even annoying while someone else is talking.

[@markwheeler4245]

WilfChadwick yeah I know he’s smug. he lives in a majority white country and has become an MP who gets paid tons a year while countless white brits are broke on welfare, terribly racist country huh

[@realhorrorshow8547]

That would be the David Lammy who responded to Stacy Dooley (an award winning documentary maker) going to make a film in Africa for Comic Relief by saying Africans didn't need another 'white saviour'. They seem very short of black saviours - black tyrants they have in abundance. So, not only are white people to blame for everything, but helping while white is also 'problematic'.

[@WilfChadwick]

@@realhorrorshow8547 no, no, no! You're thinking of a different DL, the DL I know (socialist) just loves money www.standard.co.uk/news/expenses-cheat-mp-made-150000-claim-in-the-year-before-he-was-jailed-6424698.html and www.libdemvoice.org/david-lammy-mp-expenses-16306.html and, is a true cosmopolitan mastermind kzbin.info/www/bejne/eqS1ZYGuYqp_ncU You must be thinking of the anti british, uber virtuous, race baiting xenophile that voted for the iraq war. ps. no, i'm not a lib dem.

[@brianfinnegan664]

@Ty ⚽

[@carlranger8060]

Imagine if David Lammy and Diane Abbot had a child. It would be called 'Buffalo Arse Face'.

[@chrisneedham5803]

It's OK to be Lionel Shriver

[@lighttajiribey4221]

LIONEL is neither white nor american. she is black and a FOREIGN albion CITIZEN on our sovereign american land. the sovereign original indigenous moorish americans are the only white sovereign beings at america. we all know that. anyone still using the term "white" is only speaking of the sovereigns and no one else or...they prove themselves incompetent. lastly, there is no such thing as racism. either you are original and indigenous to the earth, or you are of the created persuasion as pursuant to the eminent dominion law of the universe. peace and grand rising.

[@jasoncolleran2178]

racist dog whistle

[@redskyatnight123]

martin luther king would be rolling in his grave with all this identity polatics

[@extremistcontent1337]

@Megalodon Unlocked the grave a single ignorant white supremacist put him in. Dont blame and entire race for the actions of one man.

[@extremistcontent1337]

@Que_Rico yeah the entire white population of america at the time was holding the sniper rifle as well i guess, duuur, dumb, bumb i better check my facts. Sorry oh enlightenmened one.

[@ntodd4110]

He'd probably gag at your spelling, too.

[@lawrencestone8488]

when i was young,i had several friends of a different colour,it never even crossed my mind as an issue untill later,when others made it an issue,

[@natturner5376]

The issue is you my friend not acknowledging that some people have bigger obstacles than you

[@liamhicks547]

@@natturner5376 you are the problem

[@fizzlerfreeborn5020]

Well argued Lionel Shriver - thank you.

[@just_another32]

I've listened to this about three times. Love it.

[@willgibbons1733]

She is really articulate, I think I need to check more of her stuff out.

[@AG-tj8ew]

You won’t be disappointed 🙂. Her use of humour is a particular joy.

[@734ch3r]

Read 7 of her books. Liked every single one.

[@melmo5218]

"We need to talk about Kevin" might keep you awake at night but...."A thundering good read"!

[@reardelt]

Identity politics comes in when one society lives as a 5th column (i.e. parallel society). Clearly the Indians right now in USA are not scapegoated because they don't commit crime.

[@NikoHL]

If you want to learn how to be a Fascist, read Lionel

[@normanmacfarlane3049]

This is exactly what they don't want to hear. What a wonderful woman.

[@ZoomahZoomah]

Beautifully and eloquently put. Thank you

[@jimbo5973]

Inviting David Lammy onto Intelligence squared is degrading for all concerned, he clearly demonstrates that he is not that intelligent by subscribing to the toxic politics he insists upon regurgitating onto all the unfortunates he happens across. Would you platform barely coherent racists in general? or just David ? why just David?

[@simonking2869]

Absolutely spot on, Jimbo!

[@ReasonableForseeability]

To be fair, it's pretty hard to find cohererent and intellegent people among the woke.

[@secularspectator]

I bet Lammy didnt hear a word...!

[@Isengard2626]

Secular Spectator - Even if He did hear anything He probably wouldn't understand anyway. Lionel Shrivers intelligence completely obliterates Lammys whole meaning of Him being alive

[@secularspectator]

@@Isengard2626 Lammy is an intelligent individual....his arrogance hides this fact.

[@STEPA1994]

Thank you for publishing this as a separate video! Makes it possible to share with friends without a disclaimer as to not waste their time finishing the whole thing.

[@boriss.861]

Lionel two words thank you.

[@ReasonableForseeability]

That's 4 words, excluding Lionel". Hey, but who's counting?

[@Shamino1]

@@ReasonableForseeability You, it seems, y'smug prick.

[@OldSethOnetooth]

I move in circles which basically function via identity politics. The people who are making a living out of turning an imported working/underclass against the indigenous working/underclass all seem to be privately educated middle class who move around the country/world and have no roots. The people from my own culture who are their most vocal supporters are people who have never curbed their use of recreational drugs as they got older and/or who have psychological issues such as ADHD. This is a purely personal observation on it. I live in an area in which people who are painted as perpetual victims are involved in the trafficking, exploitation and abuse of women and children. The reality that the SJW's do not want anyone to know is that they are supporters and enablers of imported organised crime syndicates which work with each other to exploit what they perceive as a weakness amongst the host culture.

[@hairetikos6402]

David Lammy... FFS!

[@benparsons2878]

"What do you want on your tombstone?" I'm definitely bringing that one up next I get in a conversation about identity politics. It's a big one.

[@cueball6969]

I'd much rather 'obnoxious, Clarkson idolizing prick' rather than 'straight, white male'

[@assshoal5793]

there is no compliment higher than "straight white male" and no insult greater than to not be one I dare any socjus to hatemob on that, the fact that they feel the need to attack my declaration of self-superiority over them reveals their insecurities and envy, lesser qualities in lesser beings!

[@benparsons2878]

@@assshoal5793 I mean seriously cmon now. That's just silly.

[@assshoal5793]

@@benparsons2878 name me a civilization better than european/north american white civilization then! mud hut africa, coronavirus china, stone axes abbo americans, what, come on spit it out!

[@assshoal5793]

@@benparsons2878 if we're going to have people whining about whiteness I'm going to celebrate its greatness over them

[@mwa1254]

This is exactly what I have thought but am in no way able to articulate as well as Lionel has here. Very well put.

[@SM-eg7xy]

David Lammy on something called Intelligence Squared lol

[@british.scorpion]

The steam coming out of Lammy's earholes was almost visible. Out and out racist.

[@JP-je6jg]

Such a compelling argument, she speaks so much sense.

[@jalijali8448]

Literally Anyone could beat David Lammy in a debate!

[@BunkHarvestIII]

What the hell was Lammy even doing on Intelligence²?

[@cwdrock]

I already heard David Lammey speak, it was underwhelming.

[@Khayyam-vg9fw]

There are many highly intelligent and articulate black men; David Lammy is not one of them.

[@Jamminn555]

Beautifully written and presented by Lionel. *Note to Intelligence Squared - that top quote in the description is incorrect. What she said was "If anyone aims to put Lionel Shriver straight, white female on my tombstone [not i-Tunes], I'm definitely getting cremated". Thank you so much for hosting and posting this outstanding debate.

[@Intelligence-Squared]

Thank you so much! It has been adjusted accordingly. It was a brilliant debate, we are happy you enjoyed it.

[@lisawright2700]

Where can we find the transcript for this speech?

[@redskyatnight123]

Lammys just the British version of affirmative action

[@errolkim1334]

with a lot less action and a lot more affirmation.

[@Min-xm8tp]

David lammy on Mastermind, give it a watch, one of the funniest things on Yootoob............absolute Dullard!

[@jean-pascalheynemand3271]

Policies focussing on differences instead of commonality can only lead to social fracturing.

[@thefloridabobcat9298]

She's fantastic. Nothing but TRUTH comes from her mouth.

[@user-bf8ud9vt5b]

We'll never end oppression ... coz oppression is now a high value social currency.

[@QuercusQuest]

I am very relieved to know that some smart people are talking about this problem. I thought for a long time that I was the only insane and weird person when I questioned identity politics.

[@TheLivirus]

I think Lionel made the best case.

[@FREEMAN....]

A woman named Lionel speaking against identity politics. Priceless.

[@allenomalley4014]

Yes Lionel Shriver always presents a view that is clear, relevant, with humour and provides wonderful little insights into her life and perhaps some of her dreams. She is a fantastic writer and novelist too

[@shanosummesteros9563]

Smart, well spoken lady. Need more like her.

[@jupiterisaak1004]

Identity politics is the best thing to ever happen to the 1%

[@bigbarramundi8907]

Havn't been doing to well as a Straight White Male lately. Was lucky enough to Contract Non Hodgkins Lymphoma last year with 7 rounds of the most brutal chemotherapy, followed up by a full Bone Marrow Transplant which put me in the ICU for ten days. Also living is hard as the chemo was so brutal it destroyed half of my organs. So yeah, being a Straight White Male hasn't been treating me too kindly lately..

[@HarrySmith-hr2iv]

Its so refreshing to hear Lionel Shriver speak. Clearly she is someone who thinks carefully, instead of having mindless ANTIFA kanipship outbursts, as is often todays norm.

[@bign3ck]

She just owned David Lammi's World 🗺

[@adamgrimsley2900]

Well said.

[@kudim3185]

WOW. What an incredible speech. Kudos!

[@clementdedadelsen4065]

A bright and brave woman. A proper heiress of the most courageous thinkers of American and British Enlightenments.

[@ezrazonable4992]

She's amazing.

[@dsmyify]

Thank you.

[@dirtypure2023]

Brilliant.

[@SydBarrett91]

wow that speech was something.

[@HagiaSophia1952]

Absolutely brilliant speech! Did anyone hear David Lammy's paean to himself? What an arrogant racist!

[@jerryclinton2117]

Lionel's fantastic!

[@earendil261]

This should have more views.

[@davidprice5678]

If you don't play the game of identity politics you will be steamrolled by those who do

[@simonclare100]

giving the debate full consideration, Lionel Shriver stood out with her rational unbiased take on identity politics, David Lammy however was the opposite of this, his politics distorts his views and he sees everything through a lense of racism, his views are potentially very dangerous and cause division, damaging society in the process

[@Kurtlane]

She nailed it. I think it was all done deliberately. As in, "Of course it tears society apart. That's what we want. Divide and rule -- the oldest principle of politics." I am also getting myself cremated.

[@AndrewPhillipsTech]

Thank you

[@ordoabchao6747]

With David Lammy on the other side?? I've got to see the whole thing now, what a hoot that would be to see

[@bobbybee2975]

He brings his typical duplicitous self refutations with him.

[@god87263]

Lammy is the racist

[@chrishoff402]

A society built on identity politics is a mathematical impossibility. Take 3 groups, group rock, group paper, group scissors. Now, try to arrange them in a progressive stack and enact diversity hiring and reverse discrimination in order to make your workplace more inclusive. Then, assume all three groups rock paper scissors intermarry, and once again expand your progressive stack and diversity hiring program in order to make it more inclusive. What you will always discover is that the number of identifiable minority groups exceeds the total population. It's an N to the exponent N-1 math problem, the only practical way to treat everyone fairly is to enact egalitarianism. That's where we were before the Obama era, where we were heading since the late 1960's and it was working, racism was in steady decline until Obama turned it all around.

[@adriansherlockdamondark.1094]

It's a no-brainer. I was raised to think people are people, regardless of race, color or creed. Now everyone is "I'm this" and "I'm that". Which is the opposite idea. It's people proudly dividing us up, all over again. What a poisonous idea!

[@LordAsymalator]

Beautiful.

[@johnenochpowellmbe1294]

What is David Lammy even doing there?

[@ccchicken8889]

What an important message. Hey President Trump, next SOTU address, bring her on to recite this speech. I think it's that important.

[@gregormendel1885]

Yes I agree with that statement. To ascribe people into groups and so neglecting their individuality, or subverting it, is a form of soft racism itself. It assumes whole groups of people share the same characteristics and needs (potentially millions). Skin colour is not a straightforward determinant for groups. People have their own agency that transcends their skin colour. ID politics is regressive and ultimately only serves to pit groups against each other (a victim hierarchy) which is, I would say, bad for a cohesive society to work.

[@keithlongley362]

Superb and succinct and yet some people are bound to take offence

[@jeffhuett101]

“As far as the identity politics cabal is concerned...” She’s so close to naming them it’s seeping through her pores.

[@ntodd4110]

Naming them would require her to be specific enough to be able to fact-check her claims, and she can't have THAT.

[@eatsomeseaweed3693]

Bravo.

[@baxtronicxavier]

Brilliant

[@noone8418]

Identity politics is hiding in a crowd and shields your personal choices and more importantly your mistakes from scrutiny. And when you use a past you weren’t there for, it’s called stolen valor or in this case stolen victim cards. Your identity is your name.

[@jamesdunkerson2908]

Great speech!

[@rolandsdurendal6673]

also known as minority privilege

[@balloakz9857]

The smallest minority will always be the individual. AR

[@DrustIV]

She likes Graham Greene 's novels!!! That's always a good sign.

[@Valicroix]

Lionel Shriver for president!!!

[@richardscales4569]

That was an exceptionally honest criticism of the poison of identity politics. As a writer, I can confirm the wide=spread fear and paranoia that has lead to self-censorship, as a way of avoiding career-threatening controversies.

[@tonsfocus]

Great punchline ending!

[@davidalen9279]

bravo to this woman. spot on.

[@jato72]

Has Lionel convinced you? I was already convinced. She did a good job speaking on the issue.

[@xusenaxmad7006]

Genius lady

[@snowflakemelter1172]

You invited David Lammy to an event called " intelligence squared " , the man who thought Marie Antoinette discovered radiation ?

[@user-hh2is9kg9j]

change the description. she said "tombstone" not i-Tunes 😅😅😅

[@nunofernandes4501]

Make this woman president of the world right now, please!

[@boogieboxmusic4331]

Love this woman..

[@Nick-X]

What could have caused people to descend into such tribalistic identitarian politics, I don't know. Neither does my Somali neighbour.

[@morpheos111]

Intelligent. Posed. Witty. Her own damn self. Shriver is so great AND right about the identitarians.

[@evflorybarnes]

Amen!

[@cinnamongirl5410]

civil rights movement ''it's our turn to be racist now'' .. so i guess judging humans on skin was all okay after all. Everyone just wants their turn is all.

[@marvinm.messier1120]

At least 60 snowflakes melted when watching this

[@saiello2061]

What she said.

[@mbardfast6658]

Weakness - motivated to remain weak - a victim.

[@larusargentatus8357]

yes..

[@santallum]

It's the extremes on both sides that are the problem .. we should not allow the extremes to polarise society

[@John-mz8rj]

Knowledge creates a problem. The same knowledge try's to solve that problem.

[@toddshaw6658]

She should be president of U. S.

[@EliahHoliday]

All through this identity politics, all through pointing the accusatory finger at your neighbor, all through the masses divided, those who hold power over all sleep well at night.

[@arcturus8218]

she should of looked at lammy for most of that speech!

[@Bebopin-69]

She is really articulate, and sensible. How come she was not shut down?

[@leotto8906]

against the motion

[@russellhertzberg5783]

Standing Ovation.

[@gazzaroony]

Two decades of 'everybody wins' schooling has put us where we are.

[@codediporpal]

Honestly I don't see much choice but to vote white these days. The alternative is explicitly anti-white, and since my skin is whiter than average I'd have to be insane not to vote for Trump.