Lionel Shriver & Rob Henderson: gender and climate obsession will destroy the West | SpectatorTV

[@pikkuoo]

I can't think of much else these days. The culture wars have escalated with a frightening speed here in Finland. It's amazing how much power can a relatively small group of people have, when they have infiltrated the media, akademia, schools and the whole cultural space.

[@MrWilkes100]

Cant be much worse than here in the UK,.

[@zenden6564]

Have a look at Klavan discussing Rufo's new book on the culture wars Interview with Christopher Rufo: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mIu5qWSGrsZnZ9U&feature=share Best wishes to Finland❤

[@tinootnoot2725]

Follow the money

[@daniellebcooper7160]

As Gramsci put it, “In the new order, Socialism will triumph by first capturing the culture via infiltration of schools, universities, churches and the media by transforming the consciousness of society.”[9]By an army of Marxist intellectuals undertaking (what was later called) “the long march through the institutions of power”;[8] that is, by gradually colonising and ultimately controlling all the key institutions of civil society. From 'Cultural Marxism: fact or fiction'' Eternity Websight

[@splinterbyrd]

How many transgenders live in your street? It's just a silly media fad

[@ohstanley3058]

KZbin put a “warning” on this video explaining climate change. I think that says it all

[@briananderson7285]

Warning,,,climate change is a more of a political policy ,rather than a environmental problem.

[@dianefitzgerald1693]

Sure does. The warning isn't even factual. Climate change... long term shifts.... mainly caused by human activities. Nothing to do with nature at all.

[@elkpaz560]

citing the United Nations as it source of truth. We need to talk about the sources more often.

[@pshehan1]

No. It is labelled context. "Climate change refers to long-term shifts in temperatures and weather patterns, mainly caused by human activities, especially the burning of fossil fuels." This is necessary because YT is littered with misinformation on the subject. It is interesting that having been mugged by reality, many people who claim to be "skeptics" and formerly attacked the professionalism and integrity of scientists and clamed that ACC was a hoax have now moved to saying there is no point doing anything about it.

[@mark4asp]

Early on Lionel did say: "Even assuming that all the climate activists are correct ..." It seems if your video says "climate" anywhere in it, you get that warning.

[@proto-geek248]

As an American who was a child in the 60s, grew up in the 70s, & graduated high school in 1981, I find the state of the Union overwhelmingly disconcerting, maddeningly disappointing, & downright frightening.

[@andrewthomas695]

Check out the Nordic Bloc countries. You might prefer them. And I am not joking.

[@Martin-jd3oc]

Cudos to the moderator/interviewer for letting the intervewees speak uninterrupted. Great conversation. Thank you!

[@foxtrotjulietbravo5536]

Kudos to YOU Martin!

[@proto-geek248]

Yes. Intelligent & refreshing.

[@JamesBond-uz2dm]

" Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. " ------ Voltaire

[@kindnessfirst9670]

That explains Trump.

[@stephenmcdonagh2795]

@@kindnessfirst9670 You mean Trump the guy that didn't bomb any country- unlike his opponents...? If you believe that Jan' 6th was an "Insurrection" or even more obtusely, a "Coup", then you believe absurdities. The cultist ideologues will call Trump a racist minus any proof whatsoever whilst ignoring Biden's provable racism and his son's dodgy dealings with China. A good example of an atrocity would be Hillary Clinton bombing Syria simply to obscure bad news whilst under Obama's rule.

[@memphisedepolore]

like how females make you believe it is equal to men and make society murder unborn children?

[@valerietaylor9615]

The actual quotation from Voltaire is more succinct: “ If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities.”

[@lahaza6515]

@@kindnessfirst9670 I'm not a Trump supporter, but as someone who refuses to freak out about someone without true evidence of fact; I always wonder what *specifically* people are referring to when saying "Trump." Granted, the guy is a self aggrandizing boob, but he didn't start wars, didn't cozy up or influence peddle to China (communicating w/ them & the latter are very different things). The economy was not insane and working people weren't treated like a monolith of hill billy rubes. I'll take an obnoxious wolf who's displaying their ridiculousness to my face any day over a manipulatively folksy, smiling plagiarist, warmonger, crime bill writing, compulsive liar wearing sheep's clothing. The people who constantly tell you how much they "care" in folksy tones while doing the direct opposite are the ones to worry about.

[@stanweaver6116]

The one category she missed in her list of people given positions based on something other than merit is rich people. When I look around at the political landscape what I see is that many of our leaders are without merit and have risen to positions of influence only because they are connected and wealthy.

[@icebirdz]

TRUMP is only sober guy in the field that works and is more then a stable Genius--he is truly a Historic Patriot

[@valerietaylor9615]

Too true.

[@kindnessfirst9670]

That is by design and has always been the case. But mentioning it gets you condemned as promoting "class warfare". Like pointing out that most people who get preferential admission to places like Harvard are white rather than black.

[@SimonWallwork]

100% correct. As we drone on about homosexuals, and climate change- our enemies in this World are pissing themselves with laughter.

[@manmaje3596]

Homosexuals are not transgender.

[@Aneebanana1]

Yep!

[@markferguson7563]

Laughing? More like hysterical!!!

[@reasonablespeculation3893]

The enemies of the West can't believe their good fortune

[@DonBean-ej4ou]

In the UK wirking class culture is still predominant and they have no time for any of the Critical Theory stuff, mock trans, ignore LGBTQ+++ and mental health is still taboo, they would fight for their country and I'm sure there are still enough normal middle-class youngsters to provide an officer class. The pollsters should get out of the University towns, but then they would probably be ignored anyway.

[@sue.F]

What is the end-game to these culture warriors - I would suggest a neutered, mentally fragile population that warms itself by the fires of books on classic wisdom while the world’s cockroaches and rats gain dominion.

[@daniellebcooper7160]

global socialism, where the warped minority dictate to the majority how to think.

[@madeinengland1212]

They rule and you do as you are told obviously.

[@superdeluxesmell]

There is no end game for most of them. They are mentally ill. The end game for the handful of puppeteers is, as ever, more money and power.

[@joejoejoejoejoejoe4391]

Or warm themselves by starting forest fires....

[@BartdeBoisblanc]

indeed cluster "B" personalities don't do no end games but they do endless mind games. @@superdeluxesmell

[@janegardener1662]

If the obesity epidemic means that most young people are ineligible for military service, surely fast food outlets, the entertainment industry, and the fact that most children spend time in front of a screen instead of outside playing have some culpability.

[@widdowshinstv4843]

And mayhap their parents?

[@janegardener1662]

@@widdowshinstv4843 Of course. Also the fact that it takes two working parents to support a family now, so there is less supervision at home once the children are in school.

[@excession3076]

So why not do something about it? That's the question surely? Ban Tik Tok, for instance, and withstand the complaining because it's the right thing to do for those children.

[@widdowshinstv4843]

@@janegardener1662 I can't disagree, as its easier and less costly to have a tv / tablet babysitter. It's a sad comment on the times we live.

[@widdowshinstv4843]

@@excession3076 Banning and curtailing social media will only work in one way... Allowing governments to have an ever increasing 'control' of messages sent. I agree about tik tok however.. who it is run by and their reasons for its instigation are insidious to say the least.

[@david8157]

It is not merely a matter of how children are being educated. It is that children are being encouraged to make irreversible changes to their bodies which may make them infertile and medical patients (or is it customers) for life.

[@johnkaylor8670]

I'm shocked. You don't really believe that some people are pleased that "patients" are potential "customers" - do you? (ha ha)

[@richardh8082]

Encouraged or merely informed? Surely you don't have a problem with factual information?

[@heybigbender]

​@@richardh8082 No, they're being encouraged. The factual information is that "gender affirming healthcare" is a racket, based on ideology rather than reality. We know this because even the NHS have backed away from it. Why are you so keen for children to destroy their bodies? Sus.

[@mrharpable]

Encouraged

[@david8157]

@@richardh8082 Gender ideology is not factual information.

[@citizensnid3490]

I like these people. Spectator is best of British

[@daniellebcooper7160]

best of western society

[@Clickie13]

She voted Biden and will again, just ask her

[@daa5249]

She's a very ignorant woman thinking because she rejected what she termed 'stupid fairly tales' proves anything? Virtually EVERY culture in history believed over time that they had seen enough evidence to believe that we are spiritual beings and many of those same cultures believed there was hierarchy in the spiritual ream. To ignore this history and caulk it up to somehow bad logic or critical thinking of ancient people is crazy to me.

[@quartermoon5333]

Yes, and very rude, too! She obviously cannot state her opinion without sharing her "feelings" about the subject. She has an obvious weakness there, no matter how much she disdains other people proudly proclaiming their weaknesses and victimhood.@@daa5249

[@PedroDiMaggio-dk4lb]

Wow. You people are completely insane!😂

[@TheGmeister812]

As a Brit (a personal opinion here) I have no problem with the American founding fathers-rather that they’re fascinating characters and I’m a little dismayed, in fact, that polling/research suggests that they’re seen increasingly as villains!

[@_munkykok_]

A lot of what's being done in terms of systemic villainising of individuals or groups, is in order to cause conflict within a population. A disunited populace splinered into groups warring with each other results in a couple of things, for example: 1.) No power to change anything about tyrannic rule imposed by an outward source, so-to-speak (say a central/globalist government), since everyone's already spent, and also in too small a group to topple anything that's huge in comparison. 2.) Weirdly enough, what arises is *a need* for outward/disassociated arbitors/administrators, since everyone hates each other and believes in different stories about what's real. And it's easy to imagine countless people being happy about this, since this means loads of administrative jobs for them within a gigantic bureaucracy. Which is to say, create a million problems and you might as well also create a million government departments dealing with every single one of them independently and indefinitely, and collecting paychecks. In other words, making people behave like bickering disconnected sh!ts, establishes both a need for a ruling elite, and ensures that such an elite will be beyond substantial danger coming from essentially confused, socially atomized, physically and otherwise sick, mortal m0rons. Plus it gives people an opportunity to 'earn' money by doing essentially nothing productive at all. Long story short, all the vilifying and lying and conflict brewing, is basically our society's Big Bang. A thoroughly corrupt society's, that is. Obviously.

[@6teezkid]

Those few men had the entire future of this then-colony when independence was being sought. The everyday people were too busy farming and just living your average 18th Century lives. The Founders so easily could have formed an entirely different form of nation/government that would never allow those average families to gain anything. They were desiring to form the “great experiment” of enough self-rule and small government as possible where all could have the chance to make their own decisions. They are now called “old, white men”. I’m so embarrassed for the mindless Americans we have (perhaps 50%) who actually believe the politicians of government have sleepless nights over worrying about the populace.

[@BelloBudo007]

@@6teezkid Interesting points. You have me looking at the professional politicians and thinking 'my God these people have been this corrupt a very long time'. In my mind I like to think of politicians from ages ago as somehow 'doing the right thing for the people'. But maybe I was dead wrong in that assumption. Or maybe the crooked politicians of today are just so blatant about their greed because the times have changed and they know they can & will get away with pretty much anything. I tell you one thing, it's bloody depressing!!!

[@thisisobviouslynotmyrealname]

woke people are judging people that lived centuries ago by current moral standards. Thats insane, nonsensical. If we are gonna go that way, then the whole Old Testament will be forbidden, cause it is a book with plenty of slavery, genocide, murderous raids, patriarchalism, polygamy, homophobia, you name it.

[@theotheo7241]

what is the difference between Putin and the western leaders , especially after covid oppression?? what is the difference between Putin and the corrupt bide family who have been imprisoning innocent people , persecuting journalists, prosecuting political opponents?

[@terryo5672]

Ideological disruption. Well said and you’re so right.

[@brandankelly4069]

Brilliant conversation between intelligent people. We need more of it.

[@PedroDiMaggio-dk4lb]

That's a good joke.

[@rolandhawken6628]

It could get a bit boring there are only theses three that have brains .

[@530jazzercise]

2:04 "lf l were the former soviets l couldn't come up with anything better than the package of obsessions that we've come up with"..yuri bezmenov [4:24 said soviet dissident] said it best, "ideological subversion, or psychological warfare, is the process which is legitimate, overt and open...to change the perception of reality of every american to such an extent that despite the abundance of information no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interests of defending themselves, their families, their communities and their country"

[@zenden6564]

This maybe of interest: Klavan interview with Christopher Rufo: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mIu5qWSGrsZnZ9U&feature=share

[@daniellebcooper7160]

spot on. Yuri warned of this back in the 80's

[@mgkos]

And US & UK haven’t been covertly & overtly orchestrating regime changes around the world based on their insatiable greed for oil & resources? That’s so seriously ignorant.

[@sylviam6535]

This is absolutely the subversive plan outlined by Yuri, which the left insists is a fraud. As he said: once the indoctrination is complete, even showing them the evidence with their own eyes will not dissuade them.

[@dellacrean3296]

From my view point, the west is not in decline, it is in freefall. The dominant movements have no logic, no stability, no moral compass, attack the person rather than the arguments, have little or no generosity of spirit, dispise history and are ignorant of its context. We have lost the advantage of being a democracy based on common law, duty and honour. I will die soon knowing that my the current generations will not hand on a better world to our children, unless something changes dramatically. Frankly, the West deserves to lose its status and standing in the world. I can invisage a time when European are crossing the Mediterranean for a better life in Africa.

[@sylviam6535]

I have been saying for a few years that the West is in freefall. No values, selfish/materialistic outlook, weakness, severe intellectual decline, treacherous leaders. The West doesn’t have much longer than 10 years at the top. The countries that have been relentlessly by us are smelling blood in the water and are starting to tell us where to go.

[@JunkSock]

Let’s be real, Africa will never develop to that point

[@dellacrean3296]

@JunkSock let's be real, Africa has huge potential and is rich in natural resources. Many countries(not all) have a better moral compass at this point. They value family and faith in many parts. They are evolving. Maybe you lack vision. Maybe believing in and encouraging them will help stem the endless flow to the west for a better way of life that is fast disappearing.

[@2021Lewis]

@@dellacrean3296daft Disneyland vision. You’re is a fantasy about the West. It stole the land and didn’t know it’s really value or it’s soul

[@LastBankJob]

I heard the term luxury beliefs used in AA meetings almost twenty years ago.

[@HuHWhat-yi8cp]

@last "you have to be rich to think like that." A society stealthily spoiled with the attendant entitlement attitude. 🙃

[@Benboy1980]

Oooh, that’s a good one! Gonna file that one next to ‘champagne socialists’ 😂

[@cinemar]

As an atheist I'll take christians over the woke any day of the week. I used to make smug comments like Lionel about fairy tales and nonsense in regards to religious people but I now see that as more of a woke superior position and I respect their desire to believe even if it means nothing to me.

[@proselytizingorthodoxpente8304]

What if those Christians are teaching kids that they will go to hell?

[@cinemar]

So what? Being told bullshit isn't going to kill you.@@proselytizingorthodoxpente8304

[@proselytizingorthodoxpente8304]

@@cinemar Cosplaying as a woman isn't going to kill you either

[@cinemar]

WTF does that even mean? @@proselytizingorthodoxpente8304

[@niniv2706]

@@proselytizingorthodoxpente8304 - They are not . I am a staunch anti-theist and Conservative human being . Secular societies is the only way out of this equation . Not all cultures are good and respect of evil ones like islam and tribalism cannot be allowed in a secular society . Is christianity better than islam per say ... yes by all metrics observable . The Woke movement is an anti-christian one ... NOT an atheistic or secular one . Being anti-christian does NOT make one an atheist ... It makes one an idiot . Good day Pente

[@clivetaylor6501]

Lionel Shriver is spot on as usual. Great interview & video, thank you.

[@alanleaver7487]

Lionel and Rob are spot on about Putins observations about the UK'S sick society 😎

[@annalyons4580]

A pity they need to present the Boggyman in Putin. Simplistic of them.

[@speedracer6294]

The answer to her retorical question is yes. People need to believe in something irrational or the reality of life will make them depressed or insane.

[@HobNut-r1f]

😂😂😂 A depressive speaks.

[@richardpeychers4076]

NewZealand education system under the Socialist Progressive Labour party are introducing a compulsory new Colonial / Maori history of NewZealand and the affects of colonisation on the indigenous inhabitants. One hopes this is not a wedge to disrupt the good relations in a population that has intergrated possibly better than any two races, but the question of co- governance and an education of a new history may prove otherwise.

[@anthonymorris5084]

While the early stages of colonization was certainly problematic, the evidence clearly demonstrates that everyone has benefited. New Zealand, as well as Canada, the US and Australia, are models for the world. Bastions of freedom and prosperity. These Leftist movements will destroy the fabric of New Zealand and everything it has accomplished.

[@briananderson7285]

Australian government looking to take the same parth with the voice.

[@kevinansley7353]

The propaganda is backfiring badly if my 9 year old grand child is anything to go by.

[@audreypietrucha5706]

As an American who visited New Zealand in 2018 this truly saddens me. I noticed this integration - it appeared to me New Zealanders accepted their history and each other with grace. I struggled to articulate it even in my own mind but the attitudes seemed so different from here, where everything related to race and history is patronizing, condescending and, frankly, dishonest. The Kiwi approach seemed to have worked so it’s discouraging that it’s being tweaked to satisfy some hyper sense of cultural fairness.

[@proselytizingorthodoxpente8304]

I don't really see anything wrong with that.

[@carie58]

Thank you for sharing this fantastic discussion.

[@PedroDiMaggio-dk4lb]

😂 good joke

[@padraigadhastair4783]

Peter Boghossian speculates on a "substitution theory". If you have given up a traditional belief, there is a void, and you'll substitute anything that comes along.

[@honzabe]

Logically it makes sense, but I don't buy it. One data point: I am from the Czech Republic, where most people do not believe in god (and it's been like that long time). Most people also do not buy those things about body positivity, patriarchy, pronouns etc. - all the stuff that is commonly associated with "cultural wars". At least for now (knock knock on wood). BTW, in Czech Republic, most people do not use Twitter and most people do not even know what Reddit is... so maybe I would look this way when looking for the cause.

[@kiwaization]

Love this woman!

[@stephenwilkes1385]

Fabulous discussion.

[@micgooflander95]

I'm glad that Lionel stuck to her guns on the "fairy stories" point. However, as a pessimistic nihilist myself (who rejects both the new religion of woke and the old theistic religions), I do think that if you abandon faith in "something stupid" as Lionel puts it, then nihilism will ineluctably follow if you are consistent in your logic, and you will end up concluding "we might all as well be dead" as Lionel puts it. Life is mostly filled with suffering for most people, but as Nietzsche said "he who has a why to live can bear almost any how". And we don't have any "why" that is strong enough to justify why we should have to bother with everything that we put up with on a day to day basis, let alone why we should bring children into existence in order to impose this meaningless existence on them. I'm a big fan of Lionel's, so was pleased to hear that she has also reached this insight.

[@realRainz]

Lionel and Rob are spot on. Great interview

[@jackspencer8290]

Great discussion.

[@kenthhamner2641]

Schools are to blame. Specifically teachers.

[@marwar819]

Colleges are to blame. 85% of teachers come out of liberal colleges.

[@daniellebcooper7160]

As Gramsci put it, “In the new order, Socialism will triumph by first capturing the culture via infiltration of schools, universities, churches and the media by transforming the consciousness of society.”[9]By an army of Marxist intellectuals undertaking (what was later called) “the long march through the institutions of power”;[8] that is, by gradually colonising and ultimately controlling all the key institutions of civil society. From 'Cultural Marxism: fact or fiction'' Eternity Websight

[@embalmertrick1420]

Go higher. Who trains the teachers? Define the curriculum?

[@ohsweetmystery]

Education was far superior 50 years ago, when teachers knew their subjects and no 'education' degree required. Now the teachers all have degrees that are useless in anything except woke indoctrination.

[@fin1131]

Our Govmts are to blame, they have let this happen, enabled it, and turned a blind eye, because they are on board with what their globalist UNELECTED masters want.

[@martindonnellymus]

How can young people sign up for the military and defend their country when many wars appear to be engineered to benefit the military industrial complex. Why would anyone lay down their life to profit basically rich old men who will not put themselves in the front line.

[@miraculixxs]

Congratulations you have absolutely mastered the subject

[@sylviam6535]

Exactly. They should only defend their own country In an invasion, not fight foreign wars for dirty politicians.

[@mikemines2931]

Twenty five years ago on the Daily Telegraph comments anyone mentioned the Frankfurt School you could almost hear the groan go up. These days if it's not them it's something damn near.

[@katethegreat2222]

Ms. Shriver- reading We Need to Talk about Kevin now. You are a brilliant writer. So happy to see you at the Spectator! ❤❤❤

[@brianmeen2158]

She wrote that book?

[@Ann-qf5vk]

I so agree.

[@thomasbarchen]

I have about 100 pages to go. Excellent book!

[@theotheo7241]

what is the difference between Putin and the western leaders , especially after covid oppression?? what is the difference between Putin and the corrupt bide family who have been imprisoning innocent people , persecuting journalists, prosecuting political opponents?

[@michaelashby9654]

Here she sounds insane. She appears to be arguing that kids should serve in the US military.

[@drnot442]

Thank you for an informative and interesting discussion. This is insightful and important.

[@yorrick1971]

Shriver makes a big mistake around 11:20. 'Who can be weaker, who can be more oppressed, who can be more powerless?' But oppression *is* the currency of power under the new regime. That's the whole point. Oppression = Power in the social justice hierarchy. Oppression status is weaponised in an attempt at a vengeful overturn of the status quo, accompanied by a sense of moral righteousness at righting wrongs.

[@willmercury]

She's not making a mistake; she's acknowledging a both/and. Oxymoronically, the Woke identitarians leverage their performative victimhood to gain social credits, at which point it becomes a stalking horse for their will to power. However, at the core, they are indeed comprised of feckless, fragile simps herded by their sinister ideological masters.

[@PedroDiMaggio-dk4lb]

Are you insane?😂

[@robjob9052]

I coined this term yesterday: Diversiverse

[@geralldus]

Fresh air, most illuminating, thank you.

[@charlesrae3793]

It's a sad spectacle, witnessing the intellectual suicide of the west, given that it has given us so many positive beliefs, such as freedom of speech and the importance of the individual , beliefs that are now being corroded and attacked. This is how it must have been in ancient Rome,; first they no longer believed in themselves, then the Vandals and Visigoths exploited this weakness. Does this look familiar? If so, be afraid, be very afraid.

[@peterrichardson9248]

The war in Ukraine is a horror story and should never have happened but VP has a serious point about the self destruction of the West and that his stand is against it. Sadly for him, Russia and Ukraine he should never have invaded Ukraine but should have considered the long view.

[@theresewalters1696]

So, has Russia not the right to protect its own borders?

[@afifahhamilton8843]

Like most of us, Lionel Shriver had Christianity presented and taught to her by those who didn't understand it. Indeed I'd say the whole of the Church (all denominations) have bought into the Enlightenment, and have lost their own original religious impulse and knowledge. If you get past the silliness of church teachings, you can get to the actual underpinning meaning of Christianity. That is were we adults need to reach. It is there. It's not easy to put in words (though some exceptional people do manage it) but one can know it, with one's gut, one's deeper perceptions and with one's being. Time to grow up, everyone.

[@foxtrotjulietbravo5536]

That's what we get for letting women be pastors.

[@zenden6564]

Not sure Shriver has any inkling of the ineffable...

[@brucemctavish408]

"silliness of church teachings" ??

[@michaelashby9654]

Globalization and liberalism both flow from Christianity. Christianity is inherently globalist, and leads to relativism. We have seen it happen. Christian majority nations are the most globalist, and most likely to have open borders and mass immigration. You don't see Hindu or Buddhist (vedic traditions) having open borders.

[@pwalk4160]

Christianity indeed has deep spiritual teachings which have to be recovered, but I'm not sure we should just throw away the Church teachings, more like see them in their proper place, not an easy thing

[@a5dr3]

Speaking as a Reformed Presbyterian, I guarantee that I would wipe the floor with her in a debate on the validity of the Christian worldview. - Thank you everyone, good night.

[@zachgates7491]

Isn’t Pete Buttigieg a Presbyterian? Do you share his views?

[@a5dr3]

@@zachgates7491 No relationship other than name. Presbyterian Church started splitting apart in the 30s and 40’s as the mainline became liberal and basically began rejecting its primary doctrines. That’s why I include reformed in the title.

[@Apriluser]

@@zachgates7491 No, he’s Episcopal. And take a look at the demise of that church tradition. Completely given to wokism.

[@bialikma]

Awesome video . Every word is true !

[@theotheo7241]

what is the difference between Putin and the western leaders , especially after covid oppression?? what is the difference between Putin and the corrupt bide family who have been imprisoning innocent people , persecuting journalists, prosecuting political opponents?

[@justb8010]

The apathy is of great concern - much like what happened in China during the "Great Leap Forward." When the majority were beaten into submission with an ingrained ideological fear. In Tombstone by Yang Jisheng - "Tens of millions departed this world in an atmosphere of mute apathy."

[@gerrytyrrell1507]

Maoism been taught in schools 😢😢

[@richardcrocker539]

Absolutely right.

[@proselytizingorthodoxpente8304]

I'm more than happy to recognize that the founding fathers weren't what we would consider paragons of virtue today. But if you're going to consign them, and everything they said or did and built, to the dustbin of history, then you've gotta be prepared to do the same to a whole lot of existing cultures around the world today too. And if you're prepared to do that, then I'd suggest you 're not anywhere near as virtuous as you might think you are.

[@sylviam6535]

They were 1,000 times better than politicians today.

[@Project-pq1qh]

Coming from a society that murders babies by the thousands every day and now brainwashes children so the chemically castrate themselves by the time they're 13 or physically mutilate themselves by 15. Our judgment on any society at this point is laughable.

[@McFraneth]

Sergei Lavrov is freaked out by our Western leaders. He just shakes his head.

[@fhugheveleigh2]

Thank you for this ...

[@miraculixxs]

Her shelves are in denial about reality too 😂

[@macmillan810]

Bang on

[@sarahfoster5648]

It’s true, I’m in the UK and it is a sickness. Even in Estonians have caught the disease (according to my Estonian friend)

[@vladtheimpaler8995]

Putin is wrong about most things but this . Stopped clocks are right twice a day.

[@MichaelPetek]

Putin has a point. But I have another. It is that Putin is either the atheist he was as a Communist, in which case he is an infidel; or he is a disciple of the Tsar-worshipping Patriarch of Moscow, in which case he is a heretic.

[@_munkykok_]

...and in worlds with 'daylight savings' introduced, sometimes even thrice. We've been screwed over for generations upon generations, no wonder how far it's gotten. That said, I've yet to hear the guy say something wrong, for real. Without BS translations and/or biased reframings in between. When someone's on point about culture wars and disinformation, you've got to assume their brain's probably alright, compared to the average. Which is to say rather *not* wrong about most things, or at least not as much as you've previously thought, apparently. Don't know much about him, just saying, from what I've heard so far.

[@jamesscottvideos]

He is also right about the war in Ukraine which began in 2014.

[@bobibufi1389]

He is correct in saying there is a rampant cultural and spiritual decadency in the west, but not correct in saying that he is fighting it - that is just a posture for the plebs. In fact entire russian oligarchy has money in the western banks, properties in west, businesses in the west, extra-marital stuff in the west, children studying at western universities etc. I follow Russia and things are there the same as in west - covid was handled the same, CBDC are being implemented, and they have massive immigration.

[@_munkykok_]

@@bobibufi1389 The investment thing changed lately, people are not going to western banks anymore, cause those might close your account at any moment. Anyway, they've started investing into Russia much more, the money is not fleeing as it did back in the day, so this is a huge change. TL;DR Your comment would be correct if we were still living in the past. Those times are gone though. The world's different now and our banks are corrupt. We've basically turned into what the Soviet Union once was. At first I wanted to write that we're in the process of turning into it, but then I've realised that we're obviously already there. How much more censorship could a person possibly need, before they finally get it. It's a done deal.

[@lindayhukutwana3861]

Interesting no one says anything nwgative socially about Islam that is just as conservative or even more than Christianity.

[@robinwatkins8528]

Lionel is great!

[@drone_boss]

Agreed!

[@dorothybayne6939]

How sad. I like Lionel's understanding of the world's woes. But how wrong she is about faith in the living God. It's a relationship not a religion.

[@foxtrotjulietbravo5536]

Agreed! (Man made) religions have given God a bad name.

[@dgh5760]

What a shock! Historical figures were flawed people just like us! Young people are pretty hypocritical, aren't they?

[@TheSunlight74]

Absolutely on the money

[@Philip-ei8pu]

When they include 'context' they're worried..

[@McFraneth]

This episode gets a resounding NUL POINTS.

[@ThePbag]

I think this attitude, which was also shared by Dawkins, that we can exist without a faith or belief system is quite naive. There may be a scant few for whom neither religion nor sociopolitical identity are necessary, but I'd argue that those same people probably have some moral, ethical, rational, or othet system that forms the basis of their actions and beliefs.

[@pwalk4160]

It's very superficial

[@michaelkearney3646]

Shriver's characterization is as stupid a comment as could be within the context of the discussion. Her comment about progressive package is the heir of postmodernism, and the confused thinking of Foucault and other misanthropes of late 20th century cultural miasma.

[@academyofchampions1]

Lionel is 100% right

[@Clickie13]

she voted for Biden and will again

[@academyofchampions1]

@@Clickie13 I thought she lives in England

[@Clickie13]

@@academyofchampions1 she lives in New York...maybe she has a summer house in England?

[@terebrate]

too bad about the mismatched volume levels between the three speakers.

[@alisongray1067]

Spot on Lionel

[@Batosai11489]

Everyone has to believe in something, otherwise, there is literally no reason to do anything. Even something as simple as "I believe I have to eat" only makes sense if you believe you should stay alive. The problem is that there is no actual reason to believe anything, but you have to anyway. That is what faith is and why you can't get rid of it. So the real question is, what should you have faith in?

[@benaiahwright937]

This whole idea of good people vs bad people and that we can only honor the accomplishments of the "good guys" is so childish to me.

[@midgerhys5627]

I find the Rabbi Jonathan Cahn's explanations for the current situation fascinating. His books, "Harbinger", Harbinger II", etc. and his KZbin channel make some highly thought-provoking points about the effect of the void that has opened up in western cultures since the demise of Christendom and why the culture wars have arisen in order to fill that void. As the Baltimore catechism states: "Why did God make you?" The Baltimore Catechism says the answer is: "God made me to know him, to love him, and to serve him in this world and to be happy with him forever in the next." Jesus answered the question even more briefly: "I came so that [you] might have life and have it more abundantly" (John 10:10).

[@kindnessfirst9670]

LOL !!!

[@joefardy673]

I could not agree with you more - as for fairy tales, age 8 etc., it is too bad she has a chip on her shoulder!

[@theshog123]

He is not a Rabbi

[@desertdiamond6985]

Lionel Shriver voted for Biden

[@curtisloftis6003]

I was shocked to hear Shriver call Christianity "fairy tails and stupid." Absolutely shocked.

[@heybigbender]

​@@curtisloftis6003Shes right. It is both stupid and a bunch of fairytales.

[@garymitchell5899]

​@@heybigbenderMakes much more sense that the universe came from a matchbox sized object.

[@curtisloftis6003]

classy, you aren't. @@heybigbender

[@willmercury]

​@@heybigbenderFairy tales are not stupid.

[@BGTuyau]

The term "woke" for the socio-political phenomenon in question is indeed insufficient. Woke is weak, you could say. What terms -in place of it and in place of a snooze-inducing dissertation- might best replace it in everyday conversation among non-academic folk?

[@ZonarosaSmith]

Lionel, Christian belief is the foundation. You cannot escape this glaring fact.

[@coolgranddad5430]

Don't care what people think about Putin, he hits the nail on the head here! Decadence is appalling.

[@paulsmodels]

Yeah right. Coming from a man who is a complete evil dictator you mean.

[@SueGittins]

It’s possible to think several kinds of thought simultaneously. It seems to me to be necessary .

[@niniv2706]

12:28 - Nice point !

[@markiankchik1338]

You guys are right about the obsessions but not about Putin. For him this is just empty words but in reality it’s just lies.

[@mobob75]

I saw that report qbout the elegibity of the young in the usa to be able to protect their country. I think the same would happen in the uk. Despite both my sons serving in the military

[@eamonnmurphy5385]

I cant understand why we have to have a choice between religious fairy stories and this woke madness😢 But havent we humans always had religion? Maybe my problem is I dont understand religion, now there's a thought. If I turned from religion at 8, maybe I was a bit hasty, no 😮

[@mytmouse57]

Some good points, I suppose. But the lunacy on the right - often amounting to outright fascism - isn’t any better for the young generation. This young generation will have to figure things out for themselves, it seems.

[@proselytizingorthodoxpente8304]

Yes. The opposite of one extreme is never the extremist opposite.

[@vlada]

What lunacy of right? Foreign policy is identical with both so what lunacy dies right push? Climate alarmism? Trans agenda? Woke agenda? Uncontrolled illegal immigration/invasion? Dont use big words like fascism just because you get triggered by opinions you don't agree.

[@notafantbh]

What a ridiculous conversation

[@ladyjade6446]

Humanity is a big disappointment

[@proto-geek248]

Self-destructive apes.

[@valerietaylor9615]

True. Sad, but true.

[@Tony-lp2nk]

Lionel Shriver the novelist that became a climate scientist😂😂😂. Well done The Spectator!

[@sickboy8682]

That's easy to do, as there's precarious little science involved. It's all politics and corruption.

[@AkasaBhikkhu-wn8uk]

"Social ladder"😂😅

[@leerichards2313]

Humans create religion. It is part of our DNA. We need to believe we are seen. We need ceremonies. If we are not provided it, we will make it up. CRT and all it's woje siblings ARE religions. The old religions at least have proven both useful and adaptable over time and growth.

[@HonestJohnstories-lv7sb]

Lionel Shriver is surely not wrong. Are not all established religions based upon "fairy stories" of some form or another?

[@Englishman999]

I always enjoy listening to Lionel and agree with many of her views - Rob I'm not so sure about, mostly it's that annoying inflection he speaks with that means I don't listen to him. To me, if you have a point to state, state it like you mean it and believe, not as a question to your listeners. This was another good conversation from The Spectator, though I think to references to Putin and the Russians are misplaced. It's absolutely clear that the US has done for more damage culturally (within the West) than any other nation. It's also plain to see that the US and to some extent the UK are heavily invested in bringing down the Russian state and perhaps even more so, Putin himself, than he or the Russian state have ever been interested in doing the same to the West. He and the Russian people may well be laughing at the West's obsession with idiocracy and groupthink on a vast scale covering many irrelevant topics but to suggest they're behind their existence is laughable too. These things exist solely because they are the product of Western thought (or lack of) and it's weak view of itself. Seems to me and a great many others that the collective West is quite capable of destroying itself without and assistance from outside forces. Don't look to the East but to the West. That's where you'll find the cause...

[@rolandhawken6628]

Really stressed watching this lady ,never mind climate change catastrophe ,that bookshelf behind her is about to collapse and bury everyone , Shore it up quick >>>>>>

[@es6544]

"Oh, those Russians" (from Boney M song "Rasputin")

[@Susan.D]

Interesting.

[@margueritemccartney3607]

She’s right

[@theotheo7241]

what is the difference between Putin and the western leaders , especially after covid oppression?? what is the difference between Putin and the corrupt bide family who have been imprisoning innocent people , persecuting journalists, prosecuting political opponents?

[@sarahlovesdonuts9601]

So as a middle aged woman, the size of the average Golden Retriever, I am going to have to enlist to defend our country and allies?!?! This is crazy, but I will.

[@nikobellic570]

Western world still has superior military technology. As long as it's guarded against foreign spies, then unfit soldiers are not as big a disadvantage

[@madaxe606]

For all of modern history, young, masculine men (who are much more likely to be conservative) were the ones expected to serve in their country’s military. That is precisely the group that modern liberalism despises and denigrates at every opportunity, explicitly favoring women and foreign-born people over their own sons. Straight white men are the only group for whom active, government-supported discrimination is not just permitted but celebrated. ‘Old White Men’ is a deliberate slur in academia used to discard the great works of our past. Why on earth would a young, masculine white man fight for a society and culture that despises him, and is actively trying to relegate him to the trash heap of history?

[@jserien08]

Lionel I love you

[@andrewthomas695]

You don't have to 'worry' about climate change. One way or another, it will sort out all this profound hubris.

[@tatianavinograd7591]

POSITIVE FUTURE picture, pay attention to ARC, Alliance for Resporcible Citizenship.

[@Apriluser]

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. The Bible

[@McFraneth]

The gallery of rogues is endless.

[@leveller4978]

Oh no it won’t

[@amandagribbin2638]

I do like Lionel Shriver

[@rolandhawken6628]

I think the lady in the most intelligent ,she has more books on her shelf

[@Dreadnought16]

I sometimes think this type of behaviour is a feature of nature. It insures cultures/societies are in a dynamic state. I mean if there wasn’t this internal collapse, the first culture/society to achieve dominance would still be in power today…but what do I know…I’m just an average Joe watching KZbin.

[@yvie01]

This!

[@debbieoohlalace298]

The victim competition. This is exactly true. Who is the most 'traumatised'..... It has created a weak, entitled generation. And now we're having to suffer their 'truths'. Please do want you want.....just don't expect me to participate