Why some experts are doubting Lucy Letby’s conviction | The Story

[@serialsleuth2178]

Many years ago I started working for a restaurant and shortly after starting - money and valuables were being stolen from peoples lockers. I remember vividly talking to one of the managers who's wallet was taken saying "I'd rather be a victim than a suspect". They eventually caught the guy, another employee had written down the serial number of a bank note and drawn a face on it, when he realised it was missing the police were called and everyone was searched. The guilty party had the money in his sock. Afterwards, the same manager who'd said the 'rather be a victim' line to me told me that I'd been suspect number 2, having been on 11 of the 12 shifts where items went missing... I'm a forensic chemist now and am fully aware of how complicated statistical interpretation can be and how easy it is to be biased without realizing it.

[@InquisitiveBaldMan]

They literally showed a timetable in court but only showed the babies dieing on her shifts. They didnt show the whole truth, only a partial truth. Babies died on every shift though. The babies had postmortems showing they died of natural causes. They had no physical evidence... She was tried by the media. Being called a baby killer before the case even happened.

[@jstra]

A guy where I used to work got fired for this and I was in the exact same situation. We both worked basically every shift going so whenever something happened in the building it was fairly certain we'd be there. In the end the victim of the thefts said she was suspicious of the other guy so he got fired. I don't think it was him. Had the victim named me instead I'd have definitely been fired for something I didn't do just because I worked a lot of hours.

[@ellyess7203]

You have reminded me of a part-time job I took in a large establishment with three bars and two restaurants. I seemed to be placed in one bar more than others and then a Junior Manager said money was going from this bar. It was long before the current modern tills. I felt as if he was implying they were suspecting me. I don't know how it all ended actually. I became a Waitress and the girl running that bar left but not under any bad circumstances. I have always remembered how horrible it was when the Junior Manager, rather pleased with himself, said 'money is disappearing from this bar' and I felt as though he was saying I had taken it. I went on to a career in which research depends on doing impeccable statistical analysis. Regarding statistical analyses, it is very easy to look for something you are almost expecting to see. 'Experimenter Bias' enters every kind of investigation. Unfortunately the case of Beverley Allit has left a big impression. But she was very different from Lucy Letby.

[@nonbrynary]

Any of this happen in a McDonald's in Dundee in late 2001 by any chance?

[@multi-purposebiped7419]

@@ellyess7203 What is the big difference? I've been out of the country a long time and missed both of these. I've just read up on Allit and they seem extraordinarily similar.

[@stephengrimmer35]

I know a paediatric nurse who specializes in pre-term neonates. She always volunteers for extra hours because they are so short staffed and she is dedicated. She always gets given the toughest cases because she is the most experienced. By far the most deaths occur amongs "her" babies. She is just one incompetent statistician away from an investigation. 1) above average hours 2) above average assignment to difficult cases 3) above average death rates due to poor prognosis A statistical perfect storm. I think you will find that truck drivers who work the most hours, are assigned the worst trucks, and are told to drive the most difficult routes on the poorest roads in the worst weather have the most accidents too.

[@scottaznavourian3720]

@stephengrimmer35 she s in prison cause she worked the longest hardest and cared the most. What's is ironic is in the new Yorker article the death seem to be due to doctors removing breathing tubs abd sneezing on babies...somehow lucy is to blame for all this

[@tiff4s606]

You should've listened to the evidence against Lucy. It's pretty compelling.

[@gertyrood]

Yeah but do they take their trucks home or hide their schedules under their bed? Or drive whilst trawling social media ?

[@GQBouncer]

This comment was well written

[@faybooth1502]

@@tiff4s606they are morons they wont

[@llewev]

The bloke says that it is difficult to believe that the justice system and NHS can get things so wrong. Well that other great British institution, the Post Office appears to have done so. Why should these two institutions be put on a pedestal. We have a collapsing system and need to recognise that root and branch reform is long overdue

[@espenbjerke665]

another example og Too Big to fail. NHS is out of control. most of its finances are used on top administration ,consultants and activists

[@thatgirlsh9503]

The NHS gets a lot wrong! I know first hand, they cover so much up!

[@MotherOfVincentLePew]

The Thalidomide scandal, The contaminated blood scandal, The Sodium Valerate scandal...shall I go on! Our government has a habit of apologising AFTER the fact! Half a million mistakes are made in the NHS every year- about 800 deaths as a result! And using one person to take the fall is a tried & trusted method of distraction.; they're saying 'Look at that horrible baby killer & not at the system!'

[@espenbjerke665]

@@thatgirlsh9503 its too top heavy. too many leaders . NHS need to focus on patients an doctors not all the other bs they spend most of their money : they have retrograde middle management earning more than doctors...

[@honeychurchgipsy6]

@llewev - I don't think it's necessarily connected to a 'collapsing system' as you call it. I think it's to do with expectations: not so long ago parents would have been told that their extremely sick, prem babies had only a tiny chance of survival, but with medical advances their chances have increased. However, we should still not expect these babies to survive. It's perfectly possible that no babies were murdered - they just died despite good care because they had little chance of surviving. It's a bit like resuscitation: I was recently told by a GP that even a fit 40 year old only has a 1% chance of walking out of hospital unscathed after being resuscitated, and yet because of TV and films we all expect to be resuscitated and just walk away perfectly fit if our heart stops.

[@jaywalker3087]

As a retired AnE Nurse and knowing what NHS managers are really like, I always had my doubts about this. Having seen withheld information that the jury didn't see, i now know she is innocent....

[@DinoNairobi]

I agree Jay. It's a known fact that nurses have to be careful when there are errors or issues on a ward because doctors tend to use the system to dodge the blame.

[@Max-ht9hf]

As an NHS employee I can say there are managers and medical staff that would stop at nothing to hide and gloss over failings in the services they are presiding over!

[@ottz2506]

if it turns out this woman is innocent, this might be the NHS version of the Post Office scandal

[@CarmelDeery-qc9lv]

So true. Why another scapegoat.!!!!

[@lukeraynorguitar5885]

Will be interesting to find out, although surely the infected blood scandal takes the buscuit.

[@stonehengemaca]

Then who injected the oxygen and the insulin. Letby was the only one there for all the cases of suspicious death.

[@siminamann1275]

How will we ever know? I hope she is innocent but only Lucy truely knows what happened 😢

[@ichabaudcraine2923]

Funny you bring that up, because if she's guilty then the scandal in both cases is inaction from management who were scared to admit they had a problem.

[@RAF1998-l3c]

Having worked for the nhs, in senior roles representing staff against directors, there was always scapegoating. From the finance dept to a healthcare worker. Sometimes we managed to win the case, but most of the time the directors got the response they wanted to every case. In my experience a nurse against a consultant, the consultant would always win the investigation, why? Because why would a consultant lie. I had my doubts as a senior staff representative and also a senior clinical member of staff from pathology if she was guilty. Having gone through the case I very much doubt that she is. Anyone who knows how most NHS trust work will think the same as me. Ultimately the trust that she worked would find it easier to place the blame on letby, it takes away from consultant blame and director and manager blame. Seen it many times before. I left the nhs 10 years ago because It was making me ill after 30 years service, working 60+ hours a week, pathology 30 hours and 30+ hours representing staff. I’m proud to have saved so many jobs but also saddened by those jobs I couldn’t save, it took a massive toll on my personal life.

[@hollyh501]

Thank you for your your contribution. I do hope you write to the ‘powers on high’ to point this out. Some of the doctors in Letby’s case seemed very keen to lay the blame at her feet and it’s a fact that doctors had made serious mistakes at the hospital, I.e. didn’t have a brilliant record of good care of the infants.

[@travelwithme1583]

You right, saw it before! When consultants and doctors fight between them, best action just run away from that place! They will involve everyone, just to get away with their own mistakes.

[@ashleyboard1783]

The police took this over not the trust. I suggest you watch the trial transcripts. She creates holes in her stories constantly. She is caught in her own lies repeatedly and she nor her prosecution could give alternative versions and answers.

[@markb1487]

I took my local GP to the Ombudsman back in 2021,,,because of his lack of ""commitment "" in the Covid facade...And of course,,as me+,my wife predicted,,the Ombudsman found in favour of the GP,,Why?? Because their made up of a panel of other doctors/consultants...They ""dont""/ "",wont"" go against their OWN...And I knew this before I even contacted the Ombudsman....It was to prove out prediction correct,,which they did.

[@janebrown7231]

I have never before, in the many decades of my life, felt sure that I was witnessing a miscarriage of justice. There was no evidence except circumstantial, there was always a taste of scapegoating from consultants, there was absolutely no motivation discovered, and perhaps most convincingly of all, Lucy's friends are absolutely convinced she is genuinely caring and loving, with a lifelong factual history to back them up. Was she present at every death by chance? Quite possibly, but also, anyone who decided to scapegoat her could do so by knowing her schedule. Especially if she was targeted by more than one person. Although the chances of a review are slim, I hope that's what she gets. Thank you for your informative comment.

[@jimoconnor2594]

How many babies died when she was NOT on shift, how many post office workers were innocent after being accused of theft ?

[@itsmeagain7825]

I didn't know post office workers were on the ward!?

[@angelalalley7593]

And why have nurses in charge at the PO?!

[@megja1812]

10 apparently died when she wasn’t on shift not included in the trial

[@itsmeagain7825]

@@megja1812 "apparently" ....Where did you get this number from?

[@rolandhawken6628]

About thirty six in the first year not surprising really when you consider they were all prems with no immune system in a filthy hospitable with sewerage problems

[@ElSiv84]

Worth noting that not long after LL got moved off the ward, it was downgraded so that it no longer took care of the sickest babies. Maybe the management were looking for a scapegoat to cover for institutional failings?

[@janetmarybowen3157]

@@ElSiv84 Management were on her side

[@hydra66]

Letby's parents had significant sway with management.

[@johnniethepom7545]

A valid point .

[@andrewholdaway813]

​@@janetmarybowen3157 But the doctors

[@miacat1727]

​@@janetmarybowen3157 Management didn't exactly speak up in her defence. Staff were threatened not to stand as witnesses or discuss the case or their jobs would be on the line. This was just a glimpse of how this trial was investigated, controlled & conducted. Far too many doubts & errors for the case to be accepted as Safe.

[@billbhein2949]

It wouldn't be the first time that doctors are happy to blame a nurse when things go wrong..

[@multi-purposebiped7419]

If doctors are happy to see a woman spend her whole life in prison because of a departmental mess-up, it beggars belief. I'm not ruling it out though. The Post Office have ruined lives for much the same reason.

[@MikeWellington-x9y]

I agree. Rank and status counts very greatly with 'doctors' (with their high status in a hospital hierarchy). Much of the blame for the intants' deaths probably comes to rest at the feet of the slack/negligent hospital administration which includes all the all-important high status doctors.

[@gelbsucht947]

@@MikeWellington-x9y and the massively overpaid managers.

[@Mack-bc3sp]

Exactly doctors get away with all kinds

[@pleaseenteranamelol711]

The higher-up archdemons always assign a minion flunkey to take all the blame.

[@sussexwoman]

Years ago, in the three months after I started work in a new job, there were SEVEN fires. People started calling me the "Fire Queen" and saying I was "jinxed". I was lucky in that there was never any suspicion it was me (I had cast iron alibis) but it has left me with the knowledge that coincidences really can happen.

[@Dogfacedbloke]

Did you write in your diary, "I did it, I started those fires, I am evil"?

[@KingFluffs]

@@Dogfacedbloke Wasn't in a diary though, was it? It was on paper during a police interview after being in custody for some time.

[@SuperStella1111]

@@Dogfacedbloke she also wrote she didn’t do it. And frankly, you’ve just accidentally summed up the fact there is no good evidence.

[@Dogfacedbloke]

@@SuperStella1111 You spam these channels saying exactly the same thing and take no notice of what other people say. You really have no clue about this case, the legal process or indeed anything.

[@Nick_80599]

​@@DogfacedblokeI've noticed that too. Sometimes people blame themselves for not being able to save patients thinking they could have done better, that is my interpretation of what she wrote, it doesn't hold water as evidence that she did it or vice versa, it should be put aside

[@ZoeeSavX]

I said from the beginning of this case that the trust were failing, and senior management used her as their fall guy. As someone who works in the NHS, I have first hand experience of being blamed for patient harm by nhs managers. When the investigation concluded, and I was not the nurse found to have administered a wrong (and dangerously high) dose of insulin, I was never informed. I was left for MONTHS to wonder why I had made such a dangerous error. Months left to hate and blame myself for the actions of another nurse. It wasn’t until I received an apology from the nurse 2 months after the investigation concluded, where I found out I had nothing to do with it. At the time, it tore me apart and made me question my competency and skill. It made me question my whole career. I was wrecked with guilt and my journal entries during that time, are similar to Lucy’s. To this day, I am still waiting for an apology from senior management. It can happen to any nurse.

[@JulieSimmonds-z2j]

@@ZoeeSavX Such utter nonsense. 🥱

[@ronald3836]

Any Dutch person will immediately recognise the strong similarities with the "Lucia de B." case, where after many years the nurse turned out to be innocent.

[@hailylazore2021]

No no no. There is not much similarity. There was clear evidence that Lucia was not there, in the room, or that things were not murders. There has been no such revelation of that in the lucy letby case.

[@heatherreis3276]

😯🤔😯😯😯😯

[@superchickenlips1]

Are we just gonna ignore the similarities between Lucia de B's name and Lucy Letby's name? Weird.

[@jessicapogson2645]

@@superchickenlips1I think it’s pure coincidence but it is sooo weird

[@k7hayr]

Seems like we're getting trolled. It's oddly very similar.​@@superchickenlips1

[@AdrianELSON-u6i]

This has to be looked at again. The deaths are tragic but Letby cannot be a sacrificial lamb

[@1-0-v6d]

obviously because that would mean the real killer or killers are still employed at the unit.

[@Oflaherty86]

​@@1-0-v6dWho said there was a killer? Coroner's couldn't find any signs of foul play

[@knoxy6884]

How do you know that's the case?

[@knoxy6884]

​@@Oflaherty86 That is incorrect, several medical experts carried out post mortem xrays on several babies and concluded that the cause of many of the deaths was a result of a deliberate injection of air into the bloodstream. How else would so many babies die?

[@ULHIS]

​@@Oflaherty86 there was milk injected into some?

[@miacat1727]

Apparently the cost for obtaining the transcripts is £100k, that in itself raises a red flag.

[@Jim-i2y]

That should at least be free to any judge or NHS consultant.

[@ecowifey4603]

@@Jim-i2y or MP

[@amasworld7126]

Convictions being wrong won’t be what shocks the public. What the public will never believe is how many people are usually knowingly involved in a cover up like this. Lawyers, doctors police, consultants judges ARE the criminal mafia that oppress the people. They ARE the gang. The care little about right and wrong, many are masons and all the good ones are silences and removed from power and gagged by the courts

[@TizerisT.]

just to clarify, thats £100,000, not £100.000

[@miacat1727]

@@TizerisT. Amended, thanks.

[@redtill1]

Wow …. A life sentence without the chance of parole based on circumstantial evidence 🤔

[@acecaninetraining5375]

Yes - Disgusting ! She is also 100% Innocent !

[@vagabondslotmachine]

Birmingham Six, Guildford Four, possibly Lucy Letby... British criminal justice gets it wrong, but they HATE to admit it

[@gelbsucht947]

Don’t forget Stefan Kiszko and Andrew Malkinson.

[@robramsay6408]

Ice cream wars

[@joekavanagh7171]

Don't forget the Taylor sisters

[@glenhughes8013]

Derek Bently.

[@dogbreaththe3rd851]

The Oirish shouldn't have been here, that would have solved that.

[@chrisrevill8717]

This is an example as to why the death penalty should NEVER by brought back.

[@SilverSixpence888]

No, there are plenty of cases where the DP can be applied where there is no doubt whatsoever.

[@chrisrevill8717]

@@SilverSixpence888 Yes, but there must have been no doubt whatsoever in this case based on the evidence, otherwise the jury would not have returned a guilty verdict. Now it seems there is doubt, so had the death penalty been in place, it would have been too late.

[@warwarneverchanges4937]

Also an example why courts need to make shure when they convict someone they are leaving no doubts.

[@janetmarybowen3157]

@@chrisrevill8717 It should never be brought back as we are not totally uncivilised.

[@Jim-i2y]

@@janetmarybowen3157 Giving killers free food, education and training is uncivilised.

[@trevermcdonald2402]

The public have been poisoned by media headlines such as., “Letby the Child Killer” leave one detesting the woman, will she ever get a fair trial but she must have one.

[@neonwired4978]

she had one and was found guilty.

[@Kellycreator]

Circumstantial evidence.

[@wba1charlesbeadle790]

@@neonwired4978 not near a fair trial, the babies died from Sepsis!

[@innocentman3346]

I mean, how long as that been going on for? Winston Silcott immediately springs to mind, liberty! Because of his look, next thing everyone hated him, including me I'm ashamed to say. With all respect, it's never a right sort is it?

[@TheDementation]

Guilty as charged. That's why it was by a jury.

[@Benbenforever]

Not a shred of physical evidence what so ever. Absolute disgrace that she has been convicted on no evidence. She needs a new trial.

[@matthewm5074]

Trust me letting the public decide on something this complicated is madness Jurys should be intelligence tested not just registered voters

[@serialsleuth2178]

100% agreed. It's hard enough for individuals who understand the significance of evidence and bias let alone those who don't know how to analyse and interpret it, and believe that bias doesn't apply to them. Switzerland where I live and work has what I consider to be a far more robust system where everyone in the room is an expert.

[@miacat1727]

Agree, random jurors are neither qualified or mentally equipped to process complex cases, therefore cannot enable a fair, reliable outcome.

[@JulianDowen]

Justice for Ryan Passey

[@TamaDrummer4263]

IQ test for what exactly? High intelligence often comes with its own problems in a jury environment 🤷‍♂️

[@serialsleuth2178]

@@TamaDrummer4263 I can't respond for the original commentator, but I'd postulate an argument against IQ test and a more specific understanding of the information and process involved. Par exemple, gunshot reside (GSR) has a very specific composition of compounds - to the degree that the discharge of a firearm is the only thing that creates that exact composition and form. We can explain the presence of GSR in three 'general' ways. 1) It's there because the individual discharged a firearm. 2) It's there because an individual was in the presence of a firearm when it was discharged. 3) The individual came in to contact with someone, or something that had discharged, or been in the presence of a discharged firearm. As an expert witness, I can't tell you scientifically which of these is more likely. If a lawyer asks the expert "Would you have expected to find the evidence you did if the defendant had discharged a firearm?" The answer is yes, the omission is that it's not the only explanation and if they're unchallenged (which is often the case) the jury, uneducated on GSR, now have an incomplete explanation for the possible reason that GSR is present, with which they make decisions that alter the course of someones life. It is far more likely however that a judge, or independent legal decision maker would have sufficient experience and knowledge and therefore be able to come to a fairer conclusion, than a group of laypeople.

[@jacquelinelc2843]

What an important and disturbing topic. I for one, applaud that this case is being questioned. Those who believe she is guilty, should not fear further investigation, for that decision will likely be affirmed if true. The argument for doubt seems to focus on the process and it’s inherent flaws…the misuse of statistics and human bias and error. Harsh sentences like the death penalty and whole life orders must stand up to investigation, just to make certain the right person is held responsible for the crime. The NHS needs to be accountable for all the ways they let these babies down. Thank you for this update.

[@jaredburgess8381]

She's absolutely guilty. Read the court transcripts. Spurious questions designed to muddy the waters don't *nearly* overcome the massive amount of circumstantial evidence against her.

[@Themystergamerr]

I believe she's guilty and I indeed welcome as many investigations as possible. I trust her prosecutor Nicholas Johnson KC to convict her a thousand times over if needed

[@DrMattiLabbratt]

Quite so. Evidence is evidence. A re-examination of fact and evidence will not change the verdict IF she is guilty.

[@ceriannalflorencina8297]

Absolutely agree. If the conviction is flawed it must be reviewed. From following the trial, I believe she is guilty of most if not all of those counts. Possibly even more. But justice is vital.. vital for Letby, vital for the babies who died in the most horrific ways and those who survived with injuries. Justice is Justice. And, as you rightly say, nobody should fear re-examination if the evidence is sound.

[@DrMattiLabbratt]

@@ceriannalflorencina8297 My view also.

[@dan27music]

I have been on the receiving end of rough justice, and when I learnt about the case of Lucy Letby I saw many parallels with my own experience which leads me to believe she is innocent.

[@Geeronimo99]

It was pushed due to the sensitive issue. Babies dying. Innocents. The public needed a scapegoat. The behaviour of her so.called boyfriend is odd beyond belief.he needs investigating.

[@benzof5475]

I have a similar experience, trust me the authorities in this country are corrupt, I always trusted them until 5 years ago, my experience changed my opinion drastically.

[@DavidCrichton-i7t]

read my reports It is all wrong and gross miscarriage of justice Dr David Crichton, Powerful prosecution and spin

[@Mikados_Advark12]

@@benzof5475Oh my goodness. Have you been accused of killing babies too?

[@benzof5475]

@@Mikados_Advark12 no, but have experienced first hand, the police and courts working hand in hand when I did nothing wrong

[@luluthestargazer]

This isn't just about Lucy Letby...this is about everyone..YOU and me..we should all be shouting from the rooftops because you never know who could be next as a scapegoat.

[@christinasibley2791]

@@luluthestargazer she’s not a scapegoat. If you think she is, articulate the reasons you think that

[@JD-xq4gk]

Definitely scapegoat for the incompetent nhs

[@JulieSimmonds-z2j]

@@luluthestargazer What complete garbage.

[@JulieSimmonds-z2j]

@luluthestargazer What complete garbage. I want to know who's paying for this army of online trolls! It's just ridiculous!

[@JD-xq4gk]

@@JulieSimmonds-z2j scapegoat

[@FayeClegg]

This woman is a scapegoat for sheer incompetence. She was constantly on my Local evening news. I knew her name years ago, that in and of itself almost has her as Guilty already in the court of public opinion. The amount of arrests & bails shows how weak the evidence was that "showed" she was the culprit. Her so called "Admission notes" are her actually writing down the questions she has of herself because of what she has been interrogated over. No doubt she was on all sorts of anti depressants. The Police & CPS shot at a barn door 100 times and circled the closest together shots and said "look how accurate we are"

[@Withnail1969]

Spot on. It's called 'The Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy'.

[@Blaze-2457]

Found the baby killer fan😂

[@SuperStella1111]

Same. I heard her name years ago. I read the Guardian, and followed it vaguely. I imagined she was guilty from headlines. I spent a few hours looking at the case and the “statistical analysis” - those are scare quotes, if that isn’t clear and was floored. No way is this woman guilty. It’s not even plausible.

[@Vegansharks]

Right now they are looking to scapegoat islamic grooming gangs and they will blame someone from their ever hatred of the working classes they now call the far right.

[@Mikados_Advark12]

You need to think before you speak. This lady was tried by a jury where masses of evidence was placed before them.

[@kevinbrown3593]

There were deaths when she wasn't there .. do people know this??

[@moosky7344]

Obviously because it's a premature department with very sick babies duh

[@siavosh87]

Those deaths which happened when she wasn’t there were not statistically significant, ie it wasn’t more than the average in other hospitals. The spike that happened when she was present is so rare (in probability and mathematical terms) that it’s really not a debatable issue.

[@kderules]

Please give an idea of the numbers.

[@newin548]

What about her diary? Dw

[@manoo422]

@@siavosh87 That is a total lie, Letby was on shift for 7 of 13 deaths. She also worked more hrs than anyone else on the unit. It was inevitable SHE would be there for most, statistically. An analysis of all the emergence events on the unit showed no connection to Letby at all. The shift rota evidence was worthless.

[@TheFman2010]

The United Kingdom's justice system is fraught with injustice for people who worked in the postal service. Does this extend to people who work for the health services as well? Is this a symptom of how broken the system is?

[@geoffreys-yk8hc]

yes

[@MikeWellington-x9y]

Any British justice/public system is riddled with class/hierarchical problems. Do the doctors/senior nursing staff have anything to answer to?

[@rolandhawken6628]

The only true conspiracy is in professions how true this is the doctors conspired against her to avoid their lack of good care for the babies in the ward . The police just want conviction to obtain pathetic medals and promotion ,not the truth

[@stevenclarke5606]

I recently saw a documentary on this, and I was really shocked that this is possibly a miscarriage of justice . I don’t think that she’s guilty. This is why I’m totally against the death penalty, innocent people have been killed, others have spent years in prison

[@MrVjjorge]

Why because she is white? Would you have the same conclusion if she was ethnic?

[@hsmd4533]

@@MrVjjorgeanother race baiter without an intelligent argument…

[@stevenclarke5606]

@@MrVjjorge yes I would have reached the same conclusion, there are many people who are questioning this decision

[@davidneraas750]

@@MrVjjorge I dont care what ethnicity she would have had if there is enourmous doubt and people believe she is innocent everything should be done to uncover the real truth.

[@colinjava8447]

What about the baby(s) that died from insulin, how would they get so much insulin if it wasn't given to them? She even said herself that someone must have given it to the baby.

[@DinoNairobi]

The fact is there were questionable deaths when Lucy Letby was not on the ward, but these were ignored.

[@snackweasle6516]

It appears that no-one on the unit ever saw her causing any patient harm. and that the causes of death of the majority of these infants is open to doubt. Air embolism is not a cause of death that any of the Drs had seen... and relied on a 30yr old scientific paper which has no corroboration. Patients on intensive care and SCBU are ill... otherwise they would be elsewhere. And sadly some of them die, sometimes for reasons which remain hidden. The reaction of the consultants to the prospect of their unit having a bad reputation that they are ultimately responsible for, can vary. But one reaction is to look for a scapegoat. It occurs over and over in the NHS, and I've seen it before. Juries are human. Some of them won't be very bright, and they certainly will have little grasp of the medical niceties of ICU. My experience as a juror, was that a proportion of the folk there were willing to convict, almost on the basis that the accused had been arrested and charged, and therefore must be guilty. To convict this nurse of serial killings on the basis of a time sheet, which shows she was doing a lot of shifts and was always around, seems to me to be a little forward. is this really beyond all doubt... I don't think so. Everyone wants to feel sympathy for parents of children who have died. its only natural. However to jump on a band wagon... because "she must be guilty" is an easy assumption. For folk who have no background in the NHS and it's Byzantine internal politics, its simple to say she must have done it especially when the jury were shown the time sheet with the crosses on it showing that nurse Letby was present at all the incidents on the unit. What they weren't shown was the full list of incidents over the same time period, during which there were 17 not 10 deaths, and correspondingly more near misses, at which nurse Letby was absent. The unit itself had been recently upgraded to a local referral centre a year or so before, and during its inspection prior to any of the Letby drama, had been rated as chaotic. Obviously that reflects very poorly on the consultants in charge, and when things continued to be chaotic and more mistakes were made, by an understaffed, overstressed unit, some of the consultants rather than accepting responsibility looked for a scapegoat. Since then the unit has been downgraded, and several of the consultants have been on tv trying to repair their reputations by emphasizing their amateur sleuthing. No-one wants to admit that this conviction is unsafe, and its much easier, for everyone concerned to simply say she did it and not face the difficult questions that this case raises. I didn't see a single case of air embolus in 40yrs as a Dr, and neither have any of the experts called, or the doctors on the unit either. I wrote this a year or so ago... and posted it on several "Letby" websites. many have commented to say that I'm wrong and she's evil etc.... But I'm not... and slowly now the whole thing is set to unravel....

[@hydra66]

"Patients on intensive care and SCBU are ill" - as a neonatal person I disagree with that. Like a woman who's pregnant, the majority of preterm infants are on the unit because that level of support is normal for a baby of that gestation. I am more worried about the baby born at full term on a neonatal unit rather than the baby born 10 weeks early needing respiratory support.

[@snackweasle6516]

@@hydra66 This was... is no longer a secondary referral center, so the kids were ill....

[@hydra66]

@@snackweasle6516 no, Even a baby at 26/40 (14 weeks early) on a ventilator - there is a difference between ill and doing what they do at that gestation including needing a higher level of support. The rest of the statement your statement is fine but please don't make assumptions around the purposes of neonatal care

[@hydra66]

@@snackweasle6516 Babies born in Sheffield/Coventry/ Newcastle - their local unit is the "secondary referral centre". Don't assume expertise when you don't know how the network is organised

[@MariaEspley-m5x]

@@snackweasle6516 you state ,that in 40 years,you never saw anyone die from air embolism,wherever did you work,?

[@MR-mc6rj]

There use to be a programme on BBC during the 80's called Rough Justice. It was a litany of '000s of cases of corruption, incompetence, criminal negligence. I'm not saying Lucy Letby is innocent but she could be. Andrew Malkinson ring a bell.

[@nancyallbright9240]

I loved Rough Justice.

[@vivienneandersson6019]

Rough Justice was a great programme, many people have been wrongly sentenced to life in prison and later aquitted if they were lucky enough to have someone fighting for them.

[@DavidCrichton-i7t]

Authorities want to reign supreme and make the rules in their favour

[@charlesflint9048]

I’ve still not forgotten Sally Clarke. ‘Professor Sir Roy Meadow’ gave spurious statistical evidence which convinced a jury, and which ruined lives.

[@rolandhawken6628]

Yes if the prosecution gets an expert witness it is virtually impossible to obtain anyone who will work for the defence ,

[@scottaznavourian3720]

@charlesflint9048 what's happened to lucy is exactly what hapoened to a Dutch nurse named lucia (lucy) de berk

[@tiff4s606]

@@scottaznavourian3720 Did one of the parents nearly catch Lucia in the act like Baby E's mother nearly did with Lucy?

[@scottaznavourian3720]

@tiff4s606 that's how she remembered it 2023...how did she see it in 2015?

[@tiff4s606]

@@scottaznavourian3720 Who are you talking about? Lucy accused Baby E's mother and father of lying. That was Lucy's evidence: the dead baby's parents were lying on her. You people should listen to her testimony.

[@stephenmillergbl]

The more i look into this the more i think she was set up

[@knoxy6884]

She wasn't. Do you think multiple doctors she was on shifts with killed each baby and then plant the notes in her bedroom? She's guilty as charged.

[@Twisi55]

I don't believe she was ' set up ' that's ridiculous. What I do believe however is that her conviction was unsafe. I'm not saying she is innocent,neither am I saying she is guilty. Minds greater than mine need to re examine this case particularly the statistical evidence, as from what I've researched, there are serious flaws in the conclusions that have been made from them.

[@geraldrae8351]

You think that the baby unit procedures were dangerously flawed. Were care givers changing shifts and leaving appropriate notes to avoid fatal mistakes.

[@stephenmillergbl]

@geraldrae8351 more than likely. I work in care and covering stuff up and altering facts happens all of the time. Never seen it to this extent but it is plausible.

[@lillypuddy]

why did the deaths stop when she was suspended......started again when she came back......and stopped when she was arrested

[@saratwopoint0469]

This case makes me terrified for everyone working as a nurse or in any kind of care capacity. Its sickening and feels endlessly corrupt. The fact they are trying to keep the evidence out of the public eye in the UK is also terrifying. Free Lucy Letby or at revisit it with non biased opinions at the very least.

[@1-0-v6d]

if you lift the veil you will realise that everything in the uk is corrupt. 'absolute power corrupts absolutely'. something may start off innocent and legitimate, but as soon as they start rolling in the money it always changes for the worse. it's human nature.

[@helenestiernstrand6575]

This case makes me fear for small children if they have to go to the hospital.

[@hughmortyproductions8562]

It makes me terrified for any patients. If this is how blatant nurses have to be to get caught doing this sort of thing and people are still defending her. How many nurses are out there right now doing the exact same thing and will never get caught.

[@JulieLevinge]

Zero evidence that any baby was deliberately harmed! The Judge allowed the prosecution expert who had an incredibly dubious record? Was a paediatrician, not a neonatologist? Had retired 15 years ago!

[@ajh4663]

There are massive problems with this case.

[@mycallard]

Such has?

[@tedthesailor172]

Yeah - tell me a "massive problem"...

[@hughmortyproductions8562]

The only problem is how long it took to catch her.

[@bedlam1986]

OH please can you guy's in the comments not see the problems of the case. Try and uncover other sources of information to all the questions about how they used cherry picked statistics to convict her. Ok if she is guilty at least make it a solid conviction with out any doubt as it should be. Because heaven forbid if anyone of us ended up in court accused of a hideous crime we may of or not committed you want a fair trial.

[@Worldsgonebonkers]

​@@bedlam1986Have a chat with the parents of the baby who caught her in the act! Their baby either died or was left severely damaged because of LL.

[@hollyh501]

Just the fact alone that the coroner did not find foul play in any of the deaths should make the verdict unsound.

[@Kizzalovespugs]

But that is not true

[@bowlofcinder482]

Where'd you get that Info? From your other comments, you seem pretty supportive of her. Do you know her?

[@y2ksurvivor]

​@@marinka424from your couch?

[@bowlofcinder482]

@@marinka424 I just read a breakdown of the appeal and that's not what it said

[@bowlofcinder482]

@marinka424 can you give me he same for yours? What section of the appeal does it say the corroners found nothing?

[@Sylvie_M]

There have been nurses in other countries that have been charged, tried and convicted on false information and assumptions. It is worth keeping an open mind.

[@RzA201]

The conflict of Interest in this trial is astounding!!!

[@proffessorclueless]

Dewi Evans got his 15 minutes of fame. How unsurprising the court of appeal found the trial judge to be without fault. The whole case against Letby is just laughable as is our "justice" system, whether she is guilty or not.

[@Vegansharks]

Yep, I am not going to say what my case was but I had a road accident in a truck, I appealed the conviction because the judge had veered off the guidelines and made my sentence much more severe (barrister also said this).. But the appeal judge said the trial judge had every right to veer off the guidelines if he so wished and in my case it was the right decision, so now to me a judge is just a big champaign wallowing stinking pig, how else should I feel?

[@frankedwardcurry]

The trial judge was AWEFUL !

[@KS-yv7tw]

He keeps saying Lucy Letby was associated with all the events and deaths. NO. SHE WASN’T. She was associated with the ones that they listed where she was on duty. THERE WERE MORE DEATHS and events when she wasn’t on duty. She also did the most shifts!. Let’s see the whole list of every event and death over the whole two year period then everyone would have a clearer picture. If you discount the deaths when LL was on duty, there was a considerable increase of deaths over previous years. Why was that? Someone else was a murderer too!!??? Or more likely it was due to cuts in staffing competence including doctors, sewage in the wards, increase in very early neonates that the department could not cope with as the July 2016 report stated. I have also mentioned the lottery winning analogy before.

[@itsmeagain7825]

Why did more die when she was on shift?

[@jacktrout123]

@@itsmeagain7825 she was on shift the most

[@garycannon2887]

@@itsmeagain7825 because Letby was attacking them, as proven beyond a reasonable doubt from moment to moment evidence around each attack.

[@davidbarrass5210]

Not only the whole list for that period, but for say the previous 3yrs before she even worked there.

[@itsmeagain7825]

@@davidbarrass5210 she was caught because a high mortality rate was noticed!

[@Lividbuffalo]

All this could be avoided by simply having the NICU ward under CCTV surveillance.

[@Oceansgreen]

How many people have been wrongly convicted? Not all that long ago a man spent almost 27 years in jail for a crime he did not commit, new DNA evidence came forward… this man was pardoned, right ok, but he will never get those years back that he spent in jail.

[@meow-sc7wn]

surprisingly, she was accused and bullied by only 3 doctors, but there is not a single nurse who would speak ill of Letby, many of her colleagues do not believe in her guilt, but they are afraid of losing their jobs

[@UKVeteran2024]

"Nurses working with Lucy Letby began to speculate about whether someone could be harming babies nine months before the serial killer was taken off frontline duties, a public inquiry heard." BBC

[@Ann-sj4pt]

Read “unmasking Lucy Letby”.

[@chuey2311]

If I were one of the jurors on this case, I would now be really upset and feel let down by the system, because the evidence had obviously been delivered without full and proper detailed analysis of the 'facts' before being presented. That questions are coming to light about the evidence after the close of the trial, shows this did not happen. I feel sorry for all those involved in this case.

[@Hickalum]

It is disappointing that none of the parents can see past their own grief. It will happen … Only then will the bullies be forced to change their tune.

[@joyceflowershed]

I really and truly believe this should be brought back to court there is something not sitting right innocent or guilty another court hearing is required.

[@kevphillips02]

😂😂

[@JulieSimmonds-z2j]

@@joyceflowershed She might be getting one. There are more suspicious collapses from LWH being investigated. 👍

[@richard-dundee]

The conspiracy theorists have been correct before: Horizon scandal, infected blood scandal, Asbestos, Thalidomide, Sally Clarke, etc.

[@janebrown7231]

And the post office scandal, which of course involved deliberate cover up from those in senior positions... definitely a possible analogy.

[@hardergamer]

Angela Cannings.

[@janebrown7231]

@hardergamer Yes, another faulty stats case, which got Professor Sir Roy Meadow struck off the GMC register.

[@Silverback1969MoonLandingLies]

and C0NV!D

[@jeremygough1387]

That doesn't mean they are right on this one.

[@blatherskite3009]

I'm usually the one moaning that the last place a woman will ever demand to be treated the same as a man is when she's stood in the dock, so the fact that Ms Letby is female doesn't sway me one iota. But this case stank of convenient scapegoating for institutional failures from the moment it broke. imho she's probably very lucky that the Post Office inquiry broke, proving that organisations will cheerfully see people jailed in disgrace rather than tackle procedural problems. Trouble is, even if she is innocent and is pardoned, the media's demonizing coverage has already ensured that there will always be people out there who will remain convinced of her guilt. People remember the accusation, but they don't remember the retraction so well. She's always going to be looking over her shoulder, no matter what.

[@maximisatwat]

Having a m~~~ering nurse isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for a department either.... this isnt the brilliant solution to a ward's bad reputation

[@bedlam1986]

Yeah and even if she was found to be innocent it'll be quietly hushed away after a few brief reports in the main stream press.

[@calvinchaplin9609]

she needs a fair trial and the nhs bosses seriously investigated

[@Ann-sj4pt]

She got a fair trial.Whether the trust was fully investigated,i doubt it.

[@richardmullins44]

from thirlwall inquiry 15/1/2025. The “unusual” spike in baby deaths on the neonatal unit where Lucy Letby worked had a less than 1% probability of occurring given its previous mortality rate, a public inquiry has been told. Sir David Spiegelhalter, the emeritus professor of statistics at the University of Cambridge, said the sudden rise in deaths in 2015 was “surprising” and enough to warrant an internal investigation. However, he added that from a national perspective the increase was “not very surprising at all” and was “not extreme enough to be considered an outlier”. -------------------------------- The professor is right. (If 100 experiments are done in throwing 7 coins, it would not be surprising if in one of the experiments we get 7 heads in a a row or 7 tails in a row. This would in fact be more likely than not). But in the case of C of C hospital, the cause is known. Hasn't anyone at Thirlwall told him? A number of babies (the number has not been revealed) were moved to C of C hospital in part of 2015 and 2016, from other hospitals' NICUs which could not cope. Cof C did not itself have an NICU as far as I know. Wouldn't this account for an increase in deaths? The death rate for babies in an NICU is, (It's only my guess) 50 times higher than for babies not in NICU.

[@franceslynch8815]

The New Yorker is very interesting and an eye opener on Letby's trial. The article was banned during her court case and it's easy to understand why after reading their upsetting but factual and detailed examination of all the evidence that was withheld at trial.

[@lindamessam8784]

More upsetting for the parents of those babies she had a fair trial get over it

[@davidfisher2359]

@@lindamessam8784 You are not correct, she maybe guilt but the way she is convicted should worry all law abiding citizens.

[@fancyfeast4610]

@@lindamessam8784 if there's doubt you should be concerned least it happen to you. Don't conflate your subjective feelings for the tragic deaths with an objective fair trial where all evidence should be submitted.

[@simzism]

@@lindamessam8784the actual fact remains, if she didn’t receive a fair trial, her conviction is unsafe. They will either have to acquit or retry. I think the media should be barred from reporting on these cases until after conviction because the influence public opinion has on very high profile cases is the very reason we’ve seen so many miscarriages of justice over the years. The media feed the miscarriage monster, so to speak. It’s completely heathy to question things. If we don’t, we are puppets to a system that has form for protecting itself first and foremost.

[@lindamessam8784]

@@fancyfeast4610 she was tried by a jury everything was on the table I don’t think you followed the case otherwise you would see she is a cold blooded killer of little babies

[@philiphearn9297]

Just because a report is long, a trial is long or a jury deliberates for a long time does not mean that the right conclusion is reached.

[@Scary_Sary]

Mate you’ve clearly not paid attention over the last 4 years. Nobody would be surprised at the NHS or justice system either intentionally or accidentally getting this wrong. You overestimate the people’s faith in either.

[@mrfitz96]

If I understand this complex case correctly, Lucy Letby was convicted on the basis of a statistical likelihood and slightly odd behaviour rather than a confession, witnesses to actual wrongdoing or any material evidence. That's not to say I believe she is automatically innocent, but that that no one should be sentenced to life imprisonment because of a statistical analysis and being a bit weird.

[@Laura2507]

No, you haven’t understood the complex case correctly. Fortunately the jury did.

[@graniterhythm53]

@@Laura2507 Give me a break - 12 individuals chosen at random, forced by law, & with different IQ's - seriously coming to a life changing decision!

[@Laura2507]

@@graniterhythm53 yes. That’s how our justice system works. If they had any doubts they should have found her NG. But they didn’t have any doubts. And actually it’s 24 people now due to two jury trials. Also you have no idea of the backgrounds of the jurors. Doctors, scientists, nurses all get called for jury service too.

[@mrfitz96]

@Boo_175 I worked in adult ICU for many years so I have some insight into how people act in emergency situations. What you describe could just as easily be ascribed to incompetence due to inadequate training, inadequate mentoring & supervision, inexperience or just plain being overwhelmed. I've seen experienced registrars loose the plot and freeze. I wouldn't go straight to assuming murderous intent. It's more likely that Lucy Letby was guilty of being an incompetent nurse and a bit odd, not a murderer. At worse she should have been struck off the professional register or retrained, not put on trial.

[@Laura2507]

@@mrfitz96 did you attend the trial every day for ten months? Do you have access to the medical records for each tiny baby that died or collapsed? Working in an adult ICU does not qualify you to decide what happened to those particular babies.

[@colinjohnston9614]

The judge, the prosecution and the police all seem to have made massive mistakes here. Is she innocent? Don't know. But, to convict her on the evidence presented is WRONG! Reasonable doubt has to be eliminated, and it is very much still there.

[@Geeronimo99]

She was collecting evidence knowing she was being framed. They werent trophies. The police maybe ingested too much crime theory then slanted their findings. How a post it note can be seen as a confession letter by a judge shows a lack of analytic thought. And poor knowledge of post traumatic stress response. When you are being framed by a malicious group depression anxiety then obsessive self doubt are normal. Then lack of sleep...that caused the note. Plus her medication. Medication causes obsessive thoughts and worse in some people. I hope a female judge oversees the retrial. I think it would be a more fair trial. The parents shouldnt be put through it until the verdict is decided. On compassionate grounds.

[@uanime1]

@@Geeronimo99 "She was collecting evidence knowing she was being framed." Then why didn't she mention this during her trial? "They werent trophies." Then why did she follow the families whose children she harmed/killed on social media for years?

[@SuperStella1111]

@@uanime1 her lawyers were trash. This is the justice poor people get.

[@beambee0]

Very well put.

[@davidneraas750]

Judge Goss had made up his mind before he even got the case handed to him.

[@ericamartin1162]

There needs to be a retrial ,, she’s been set up by the nhs incompetence,, that hospital was failing in all aspects

[@NikkiOwen]

Due to poor management and lack of government funding.

[@dark_baphomet]

You need to have a significant reason for an appeal and they basically had nothing. If they find something then absolutely. The tough thing is that most cases are not as clear cut as the true crime podcasts make them out to be, even dna doesn't neccesarily mean they were the culprit. But they do seem to have tonnes of circumstantial evidence on her. Either she's guilty or she's the unluckiest person ever, all they needed to prove was reasonable doubt and they were unable to

[@Withnail1969]

She's innocent. The impact of the ward being contaminated several times with raw sewage was ignored. It should have been shut down for months for a thorough decontamination. I thought she would just rot in jail forever so it's heartening to see there's hope of putting this right.

[@Kizzalovespugs]

It wasn't contaminated though. There was absolutely no evidence of contamination and the babies injury weren't parallel to contamination or bacterial cause. There is absolutely no evidence in any of the post mortems of bacterial contamination. Buy there is evidence of insulin, air embolisms, internal injury, overfeeding and severe distress.

[@nigelw7626]

She's clearly guilty. Total Psychopath.

[@JaneboG]

The evidence against Lucy Letby is overwhelming. She was assigned to Room 3 but repeatedly went to Room 1, where the incidents occurred, despite being told to focus on her own patients. She later told police she "didn't care for those babies," yet she searched for their parents on social media without explanation. The overfeeding cases, deliberate air embolisms, and insulin poisoning all point to intentional harm. These aren’t accidents; they require deliberate actions. If you were on the jury, how could you see this as anything but guilt? Cases like this make you wish the UK had the death penalty.

[@OperationMerlinFalcon]

The same are where the CQC observed tape recording of patient hand-overs? Page 113 of the CQC Report stated that had taken place. Nothing mentioned in trials about recordings! Why do you think that is?

[@meow-sc7wn]

Pathologists who investigated the cause of death of the victims concluded that they died of natural causes, and the bubbles in the blood of 2 babies are more like pneumonia, not air poisoning.Another 9 deaths occurred when Letby was not on duty, but this fact was hidden from the jury.Stop believing in the British justice system, finally take off your rose-colored glasses

[@meow-sc7wn]

Pathologists who investigated the cause of death of the victims concluded that they died of natural causes, and the bubbles in the blood of 2 babies are more like pneumonia, not air poisoning.Another 9 deaths occurred when Letby was not on duty, but this fact was hidden from the jury.Stop believing in the British justice system, finally take off your rose-colored glasses

[@mariandavis7953]

I wasn't following the case at the time but when she was found guilty I wondered on what evidence,? There was no smoking gun as far as I could see, I assumed i must have just missed it. I remember from Statistics during my degree, there are lies, damned lies and statistics, you can make statistics say anything you want them to say. So if she was convicted on the grounds of what a statistician has worked out I'd say it was on dodgy ground

[@janetmarybowen3157]

@@mariandavis7953 Statistics are not relevant. You'd be very lucky to get a 'smoking gun' in a case like this. What on earth would there be?

[@beambee0]

@@janetmarybowen3157 I recommend you read a little more about this case... And statistics (focus on how biases occur and what they are and also the impact of censored data). My dear gods, please, please mention this comment when/if you are selected for jury duty.

[@janetmarybowen3157]

@@beambee0 I prefer to stick to facts & evidence thanks.

[@ToothEnjoyer69]

@@janetmarybowen3157statistics are what we use to reenforce our ‘facts’ and ‘evidence’. If you have no experience with them, then theres no shame in admitting it and allowing someone to help you. Saying ‘i prefer to stick to facts and evidence thanks’ doesnt make you sound moral or just, it just makes you sound close minded and like you think your opinions are gods word.

[@Mikados_Advark12]

Well you should’ve been following it then shouldn’t you.

[@Kiárán92]

Even if she is innocent and found innocent, sadly her life will never be the same. She’ll get a large sum….but there’ll always be a handful of people that’ll meet her and find her guilty.

[@Hickalum]

All she ever wanted to do was be a nurse …

[@bristolfashion4421]

So how come no-one came forward to say they saw her do any of it… not a single person. Not one.

[@SuperStella1111]

Exactly. There is no evidence against her.

[@thelittleredhairedgirlfrom6527]

Wrong. People did come forward and say they saw her tampering with patients, even those that weren’t hers.

[@moosky7344]

Because she's sly and obviously wouldn't do it when people are present duh, there's masses of evidence

[@moosky7344]

Because she's sly and obviously wouldn't do it when people are present duh, there's masses of evidence, is any murders witnessed? No hardly any are, you use the evidence obviously

[@corirenata6541]

​@@moosky7344there's no evidence

[@scottaznavourian3720]

No we dont have to respect the juries verdict....thats always an easy out...they were lied to by the prosecutors and neglected by the defense

[@hollyh501]

Well said! This journalist must have never heard of any miscarriages of justice happening.

[@scottaznavourian3720]

@@hollyh501 'juries never get it wrong!....wel except Sally Clark and the guy thst I just got eared after 17 years in prison!

[@saratwopoint0469]

a jury can only go on the evidence put to them. Its so so so dodgy and corrupt. I hope lucy knows how many people are very worried by this entire case. of course i feel for the families of the babies but this cannot be allowed to happen. End of

[@Letstalk295]

Oh please, where did you go to get your degree. Let’s all be honest if this was a black woman or even a Muslim who unalived all these babies this wouldn’t be a conversation. What I think is happening with the amount of women that look like her commenting outrageous crimes like the teachers that sleep with their students. It’s coursing a lot of people (white) to feel attacked. But the question should be why is this one group of women acting out like this. And as someone who grow up in care and used the NHS until I was 27 I believe she did it. I’ve come across many disgusting nurses and doctors

[@Letstalk295]

@@saratwopoint0469you do know I’m her diary that police found she said she did it. And she has things that belonged to the families and babies that were killed. And she’s was seen by a mother standing over her daughter as she crashed and not doing anything and she was on shift every time a child die, literally the same time the babies are dying she’s there. You’re upset because she’s white. I’m 100% sure that’s all it is. Because where is the energy for the 10 11 12 year old kids that are arrested for silly things that should be a worrying sign for adults like drinking and smoking. Let’s also not forget the man she was in love with a married man also spoke in court about how he would be the one always rushing to the babies and she would always try ask him out on a date. And her friends also said she was always acting odd after the babies were dead.

[@ChrisOates-sj5fv]

How long would it take to get a retrial , I've heard approximately 10 years. Long time to spend in prison if you're innocent...........

[@garycannon2887]

It seems the doubts around Letby’s guilt are based on a misunderstanding. Letby’s case relies on extensive circumstantial evidence (which does not mean you can just ignorantly dismiss all of it without a thought). The only relevance of the shift chart was in how they narrowed the investigation onto Letby, which is not to prove guilt in any way on its own.

[@MeganPhelps-q8y]

Yes completely agree.

[@clarebell5926]

Absolutely! Well said! 👍

[@blue1984]

Doubts about her guilt based on misunderstanding? A misunderstanding from experts in statistical analysis? Neonatalogist experts. Even the author of the paper the prosecution used in regards to the air embolism said the prosecution had misinterpreted his own paper! 25 experts have written a signed letter to delay the Thirlwall enquiry. Misunderstanding? Ha you serious?

[@garycannon2887]

@@blue1984 yes a complete misunderstanding and ignorance of the evidence. Statistics played no part in finding her guilty and the nitpicking over medical evidence isn’t convincing so far as it is not considering the totality of the evidence. They may find minor errors in the trial but unlikely anything that would change the outcome.

[@clarebell5926]

@@blue1984 Yes - you seem to be misunderstanding the fact that Letby was found guilty on masses of evidence, much of which was provided by seven senior consultants! Those that are questioning her guilty verdict were not there to hear all the evidence! You seem to be missing the fact that it must have been pretty damn strong to convict her 15 times over…

[@Mack-bc3sp]

The doctors need to be investigated

[@freddykrueger1162]

I heard that it was a hygiene issue to do with a super bug or mould/fungus spores or something like that. A cover up for sure, but for the benefit of managers not doctors. The powers that be just don't want to admit that the NHS was better when the managers actually were doctors. Back in the 80s they chose having an NHS that appears more efficient on the surface over one that is slower but not rotten to the core like it is today.

[@MyCrazyNeighbour]

She's innocent they got it wrong just like the post office staff. Our country needs to learn lessons but it never learns. Instead all we here is sorry we got it wrong. It's not not good enough. Are we England or Russia It's becoming hard to separate the two

[@BigBillKelly-x2z]

I was suspicious at first. After listening to the court manuscripts and evidence i have no doubt she's guilty, well beyond doubt. Have you actually looked into it?

[@MyCrazyNeighbour]

@@BigBillKelly-x2z I have and if you look at deaths across the board at that hospital you'll see it across all of the nurse's not just lucy as the courts only shown Lucy's, the court withheld the other deaths from other nurse's. Have the NHS been training there nurse's correctly. The truth will come out in the end

[@knoxy6884]

Not every case is some conspiracy theory. You can't compare this to the post office scandal. She was found with notes basically confessing to what she did.

[@smidgen]

@@MyCrazyNeighbour what does any of that have to do with notebook with her admitting it found at her home????

[@MyCrazyNeighbour]

@@smidgen the notebook was from when lucy seen mental health team as they asked her to write notes show how she felt it was never at her home. It came as relief for her mental health and can't be accepted as evidence because it was a request from her mental health team. Like I've said she's innocent. She's clearly been set up by her mental health team which is not admissible in court as they asked to her write notes

[@EileenHall-j9f]

I wouldn’t trust the NHS, not to cover up mistakes. They try and do it all the time. Maternity units have a poor reputation in regard to mistakes, and babies deaths.

[@paulhatchard1499]

I guess one or two consultants are getting very nervous now if there is a retrial. It will probably show incompetence from their part and if they are looked at through a magnifying glass it may show how foreign doctors are not of the same ilk as our home grown

[@JulieLevinge]

Now after Mark McDonalds press conference that describes how baby O died is so shocking not because a doctor made a mistake that took this baby’s life! But to lie about it & be the lead accuser of an innocent nurse is a massive scandal! Horrifying!

[@Tim_3100]

I have a friend who is a doctor in private healthcare. she thinks this is going to be going on for sometime and thinks she will be acquitted

[@JulieSimmonds-z2j]

@@Tim_3100 🥱

[@trevermcdonald2402]

When someone is accused of a serious crime and that accusation is made public, the majority of people naturally assume that the accused would not have been made unless there was proof of guilt. In this young nurses case, there was no proof. The case against her was built by a very clever and experienced prosecuting team whose sole task is to seek a conviction,

[@ScandalUK]

She will have the hardest time among inmates - if she is innocent then it should be established asap.

[@OperationMerlinFalcon]

Let's talk about the "tape recorder" the CQC Inspection Team reported seeing during patient hand-overs on the Ward. This was documented on page 113 of the 2016 CQC report. Where is that evidence? That's what we used to call physical evidence. Where are the tape recordings of patient hand-overs? The inspection team was at the CoCH in February and March of 2016. They reported seeing that on the Ward.

[@Alisonuk]

This needs to be investigated immediately before she loses anymore years of her life. She’ll never get over this.

[@jimjames4348]

Louise Woodward never did.

[@JulieSimmonds-z2j]

🥱

[@JulieSimmonds-z2j]

​@@jimjames4348 Again, a completely unrelated case.

[@JulieSimmonds-z2j]

@@Alisonuk she won't, because no one will let her forget.

[@jimjames4348]

@@JulieSimmonds-z2j Yes no similarities whatsoever. Whatever was I thinking.

[@chardz2007]

She was used as a scapegoat pure and simple 🤜🏼🤛🏼

[@mycallard]

How was she used a a scapegoat? Give us hard facts

[@Mikados_Advark12]

@@mycallardThis person can’t

[@smidgen]

@@Mikados_Advark12 none of 'em can!

[@manoo422]

@@mycallard Everyone is innocent until PROVEN guilty how about you give us some 'hard evidence' of guilt??!!

[@rachelsianphotography5932]

​@mycallard do your research and you will find out. Did you even watch the video?

[@roleat]

High risk infants died in a hospital that was understaffed. Obviously any nurse who was working would be present at some stage of the infant decline

[@Vesper.-zh6sj]

A New and totally lndependant inquiry is needed .

[@TotesEmoshVibes]

These podcasts can be so frustrating to listen to. I clicked on it because of title because im genuinely interested to hear what evidence if any is there that points towards her innocence. Instead i have to sit through the majority of the story from the beginning as if this wasnt one of the most reported on stories in UK history. We know what she was accused of, we know what she was convicted of. Cut to the chase please, get decent producer who accepts everyone has heard the story by now and report the new stuff instead of 17mins into it.

[@anjadinning8238]

I have always believed lucy letby is innocent I also felt the asian doctor had it in for her .😢

[@jaggafeen]

me too and i am an asian. the asian doctor has been proven to have lied in his testimony. he claimed lucy was alone with a baby but evidence proves another nurse was there. that doctor looked very dodgy to me from the beginning.

[@anjadinning8238]

@@jaggafeen 3 apeals have been rejected for lucy Lets hope the 4th apeal is succesful for her As its all been circumstancial up to now Where is there real evidence ??they havent any .

[@christinedavis5813]

@@jaggafeen Yes he had bad vibes

[@Michelle-wk4ek]

I’ve always believed she is totally innocent as not a shred of proof has been proven.

[@knoxy6884]

Yes there has, there hasn't been a shred of evidence to prove she's innocent.

[@faodail3913]

​@@knoxy6884you are in dreamland. There was an open ongoing sewerage leak on the ward, an ongoing bacterial infection they couldn't eradicate, which is fatal for neonates, heaps of other problems due to staff shortages etc. She is clearly a scapegoat for the hospital.

[@hughmortyproductions8562]

You only thought she was innocent because she's a relatively attractive white woman. If anybody else killed that many children you would want them to rot in prison for life.

[@ukguy]

@@knoxy6884 There is zero evidence of her ever harming any baby, people shouldn't have to prove they are innocent, there should be presumption of innocence until proven guilty and this wasn't awarded to her, she was presumed guilty right from the start. They failed to investigate any other cause because of this.

[@Worldsgonebonkers]

​@@ukguyHave you forgotten that the parents of a baby caught LL in the act of harming their tiny baby! I saw them interviewed on TV. They weren't lying. Can't remember the outcome, but the baby either died or was left severely damaged.

[@Ernest_Thesiger]

Sadly, I can't see Sir David Davis succeeding in his quest to free Lucy but it is good to see that high profile people and thousand of members of the public are at least trying to get justice for an innocent woman. I've been saying for over a year now that, once more and more people start looking into how the CPS really built their "case" against Lucy and see how their medical expert Dewi Evans came to work for them*(and what a judge at another trial said about him**), more and more people will realise this is the biggest miscarriage of justice ever! People don't seem to realise that these babies were only in that hospital because they were gravely ill and as other people have pointed out, there's no evidence to suggest they were murdered, in fact everyone accepted they'd died naturally until the CPS came up with some suggestions for how they might have died with no physical evidence years later and people with a vested interest in blaming others for the hospital's failings conveniently recalled seeing Letby doing something untoward. Put it this way, these desperately ill babies either died naturally, died through the incompetence of everyone who worked at the hospital or were murdered. Having followed the trial, seen how Dewi Evans came to work on the case*(and what other judges think of his reliability**) and read Richard Gill's brilliant blog and The New Yorker article, I've concluded that the third option is by far the least likely thing to have happened. Given that Letby's defence team won't explain why they refused to call crucial witnesses for the defence, i.e medical experts who were waiting to argue why she is innocent, you have to wonder if she was being stitched-up by all sides! You could also question why their plan of attack was to ridiculously suggest that somebody else murdered the babies rather than to sensibly suggest that they weren't murdered at all, which is the truth! marykistnen124 wrote "Please explain her own notes about herself saying she was evil for doing what she did." "I killed them because I'm not good enough to care for them" is a very strange thing for a serial killer to write but is an understandable thing to write when you think your incompetence(which was rife thoughout the hospital) may have led to babies dying and your mind has been turned to mush after being wrongly-accused of multiple murders. *Evans read about Letby's arrest and got in touch with the police/CPS to "offer his services". It's not hard to work out what he meant when he said he would offer his services to them! **A judge at another trial called his evidence "biased and worthless". Search the following: "Richard Gill Statistics Lucy Letby case" and "Lucy Letby New Yorker."

[@wildgardens]

Well said! I also wonder why her defence have remained so quiet. I understand they would during the appeals process but now that she has exhausted her appeals, I am surprised they remain silent, they are not even defending themselves and there has certainly been a lot of criticism!

[@mark_lhr3]

I'm afraid you are simply wrong. Very wrong.

[@Rebecca236]

The babies weren’t gravely ill before they died.

[@hollyh501]

I hope your pessimistic view is not accurate. Perhaps we should not leave it to David Davis. We can all do something about it by writing to No 10, MPs etc etc. It is utterly cruel to not allow her a retrial and not investigate her case afresh.

[@Kizzalovespugs]

Her defence team had every opportunity and allowance to call any witness they wanted.they chose not to because it would have made her look even more guilty . The babies weren't gravely ill and they did die suspiciously.many were in good health and steady condition then fatally collapsed in her care with suspicious coronary findings . There was evidence of injury abd tampering including insulin and overfeeding to affect oxygen intake. Crime scene to courtroom you tube channel has tge court transcripts. When listened to they are very telling of her character and bizarre behaviour including many lies.

[@mm-gr7wf]

I've never believed she was guilty

[@zetrei80]

Same

[@twatmang1]

I watched the case and found myself asking, where is the evidence? I'm a trained statistician and the law of big numbers can't apply here. The potential variance is too big. The defense was incompetent.

[@ScandalUK]

To be on the safe side, best not to help anyone ever

[@jasminejones9937]

Same here.

[@marvellis6762]

Because??

[@MsColl90]

The more the MSM and establishment insist she is guilty and that the police investigation and trial process were fair, the more innocent she looks. We all know a stitch up when we see one.

[@backintimealwyn5736]

yes they are doing "that" thing they do when something does'nt feel right. This might be the most unscientific thing to say, I know, but it's one of the reasons why I think something's up. For some reason Letby had to be guilty.

[@JulieSimmonds-z2j]

@@MsColl90 🥱

[@Trey-Beyen]

Anyone who is interested in justice should be deeply concerned by this conviction! Could be one of the biggest miscarriages of justice ever. So many concerns with the original trial that it could not be proved beyond reasonable doubt about her guilt.

[@railworker8058]

It’s a frightening prospect that someone could face a whole life term to conceal the incompetence of an entire department.

[@janetmarybowen3157]

@@railworker8058 Good job that's not the case then.

[@ScottishAtheist]

So are the monsters under your bed, fortunately, neither are true.

[@robertstorey7476]

Its frightening and offensive to think that a mass murderer could have her conviction called into question when she had a completely fair trial.

[@Comfortzone99]

@@robertstorey7476 If she was guilty and as cunning as they say she was, she could have pleaded guilty with mitigating circumstances (breakdown etc) and got a much lighter sentence..But if she wasn't guilty why should she plead guilty.

[@drumphil00]

@@robertstorey7476 That's been said before, about people who were later found to be innocent.

[@blue1984]

At the end of the day people who think shes guilty WANT her to be guilty. Saves them embarrassment that they were wrong. Come on lets be honest. Look, when a substantial number of medical and scientific experts say there's an issue here you dont brush it under the carpet. You listen. They are EXPERTS. And there is a big number of them.

[@farble1670]

Definition of hubris to not have sat in jury and heard the evidence and still think you've got it all figured out.

[@scottaznavourian3720]

arble1670 easy ro put yourself in the jurors shoes when they got a one sided view

[@blue1984]

@@farble1670 If the jury was given bad and faulty information (and this looks like this was the case) it makes no difference who was in court. It's irrelevant if it's bad information. Look 25 experts can not be wrong! They know what they are talking about. I'll give you a clue - it's in the name -..."EXPERTS".

[@anastasiatempest761]

Some people call themselves experts when they are not.👨🏽‍🦽

[@scottaznavourian3720]

@anastasiatempest761 yeah like Dr Evans the star witness who's a pedtrician not a neo natal specialist

[@JunoBeachGirl_]

*INSTANTLY SUBSCRIBED.*. We Americans are absolutely shocked and floored that this poor young woman was railroaded the way she has been. You mean to tell me that with over a dozen babies *NOT ONE PIECE OF PHYSICAL EVIDENCE WAS EVER FOUND?!? WHAT A TRAVESTY AND MISCARRIAGE OF JUSTICE!*

[@jwatson9732]

maybe you Americans should look at the state of your own justice system lol.

[@josephnott2956]

​@jwatson9732 behave not very polite are you ???

[@jwatson9732]

@@josephnott2956 More polite than US coppers are, that's for bloody certain!

[@JunoBeachGirl_]

@@josephnott2956 Thank you. God bless you. I love Brits. I know your history and legal system forwards and backwards. I wish I could live in England permanently when I am there, the country is so beautiful and the people are lovely. The fact that every person probably does not have a gun compared to the United States is wonderful. (Children in English schools are not being murdered by classmates with guns is an example?) But convicting someone - removing their life essentially - should require SOME physical evidence? Something? Why isn’t anyone else being held responsible for? (Surveillance in your hospitals, especially around babies, hello?!?) Just my opinions. 🙏🙌🤝

[@josephnott2956]

@@JunoBeachGirl_ britain is not good place to be now it's turned bad in every sense of the word very sad indeed there's very little hope here but your welcome . Hope alls well USA 🇺🇸 take care x

[@alastairbarkley6572]

Retired NHS Consultant (and worked in NHS hospitals for almost 40 years), I've been unhappy about LL's conviction from the get-go. It's just TOO similar to the case of Dutch paediatric nurse Lucia de Berk (see Wikipedia). One thing being downplayed is the 'hospital politics' aspect here. Inter-professional relations in British hospitals have never been very warm but, trust me, as the NHS falls apart, as work becomes tougher and more and more stressful, as patients grow more and more angry and dissatisfied, the blame and rage and burnout is just dreadful. Everybody literally hates and despises everyone else - the consultants hate the nurses and vice versa, the junior doctors hate the consultants AND the nurses; the admin drones hate everyone on the clinical side, EVERYONE hates hospital managers. Did you honestly believe it was all one big happy family? It's not. It's a swamp of fear, loathing, anger and paranoia. Why does this matter? Because the politics meant that so much was riding - for the factions and tribes concerned - on the outcome of Letby's trial. Because the hospital managers were made to appear dishonest, incompetent and criminally arrogant for dismissing concerns (mainly from the consultants) about LL, the nursing management hierarchy seemed manipulative, devious and partisan and some people were even beginning to wonder who was going to end in jail like Ms L. I'm quite sure that at least some of the consultants thought they'd really stuck it to the enemy. There will be HUGE desire to re-open the horrific Countess of Chester can of worms again - and equally huge desire to ensure that it doesn't happen. The opportunities for a dispassionate re-evaluation of the facts don't seem great.

[@regemerator7829]

Do you have to call them admin drones?

[@JulieSimmonds-z2j]

@@alastairbarkley6572 I'd have thought a retired consultant, if that's what you are, would know better?

[@UmbertoDavidPanda]

I'm nearly 7 and half minutes in and there's nothing about why she may in fact actually be innocent.

[@joekavanagh7171]

The more appropriate question would be "why is she guilty?" Only guilt needs to be proven. Innocence doesn't.

[@smidgen]

@@joekavanagh7171 yeah, and they already proved her guilt. hence why she was convicted, and why her appeals have been rejected. she's where she belongs.

[@gazh2166]

@@smidgenWhat did they prove. I’ll keep it simple for you and I will accept your explanation for just one of the babies.

[@gazh2166]

What a weird thing to say when the actual subject is about the weakness lf the evidence that proved her guilty. It’s not her innocence that should have to be proven. It’s her guilt.

[@martynflynn8368]

@@smidgen Could you explain for us how they "proved" her guilt? I'm all ears.

[@josephinecameron6963]

I believe Lucy is innocent 🙏

[@mol588]

I too believe Lucy is innocent .. The number of people thinking the same is growing on a daily basis . Free Lucy Letby 🙏

[@moosky7344]

😂😂😂

[@knoxy6884]

Thank god you weren't on the jury then

[@jenniferjuniper12]

Lucy Letby (Add ALLEGEDLY)... This guy is biased in his description of the case. I don't live in the UK and I read every word of that New Yorker article. It was compelling and this guy is missing large parts of it out. It stated "No one ever saw Letby harming a child, and the coroner did not find foul play in any of the deaths."

[@rolandhawken6628]

There was no confession , no witnesses , no direct hard evidence , no motive ,no complaints against her by any parent ,

[@RichardSFord]

@@rolandhawken6628 "There was no confession" So what? "no witnesses" Apart from the mother of one victim who walked in after hearing her child scream and seeing it with blood around its mouth and Letby in the same room? The child later died. How about the consultant who witnessed her doing nothing to help a dying child? "no direct hard evidence" What do you expect to find, a blood stained knife hidden in her sock drawer with her fingerprints on it? "no motive" Prosecution don't have to provide a motive. "no complaints against her by any parent" So what? Try harder next time!

[@tabbyrose73]

​@rolandhawken6628 there absolutely were complaints from parents and tons of evidence that indicated it could ONLY have been Lucy. She's been found guilty, it is no longer "alleged".

[@johnmchale3765]

Nice to see all the experts on here who have watched bbc news and think they know it all. None of you know what happened, who seen what or who did what. Wind it in

[@HiddenExistence]

Wow, you read an article about it !!

[@davidv.8655]

It says everything that the New Yorker magazine article is difficult to access from the UK. It certainly needs revisiting, this was a state led prosecution that covered up NHS failings and deliberately didnt call upon expert witnesses that would have seriously damaged their case .

[@SuperStella1111]

WayBackMachine will get it for you.

[@johnniethepom7545]

Try and get a copy , it is an eye opener.

[@marypartridge5154]

She had nothing in her history to suddenly start killing babies. Her only crime which made people suspiscious of her was she was too dedicated to her job. I bet she is innocent.

[@VeganGirl.]

I know all about being wrongly accused. The system does not want the truth and justice. They just want someone convenient to place the blame on and the mess to be cleaned up. The scapegoat is ALWAYS the nurse who creates waves and does not go along with the status quo. It’s the nurse that management likes the least- not because she’s a bad nurse, but because she stands up for herself and advocates for her patients, just like Lucy Letby did.

[@DavidISHERWOOD-iu1xn]

Ok so there is a chart showing when Letby was on duty. BUT by showing duty DOES NOT show the Nurse was off duty of every day shown for 12 hours a day In addition this pathetic chart does NOT show deaths when she was off duty and/or on holiday The whole Case is full of holes and will reflect badly on Chester Police

[@lks6248]

Just because she might have been denied a completely fair trial it does not mean she is innocent.

[@douglasmacari8707]

Pointless comment.

[@scorchedgorse2649]

No it's not a pointless comment​@douglasmacari8707

[@JulieLevinge]

She may or may not be guilty but there wasn’t sufficient evidence presented in court to convict,certainly was plenty of reasonable doubt!

[@stella9624]

If she wasn't given a fair trial, she cannot legally be guilty regardless of her moral guilt. Please read more before commenting.

[@lawontrial]

Innocent until proven guilty = presumption of innocence. Everyone has the right to be presumed innocent until the state meets the criminal burden of proof, beyond a reasonable doubt.

[@lewblythin]

the reporter said Lucy Letby Attacked the babies but in the trial nobody had seen her cause any injuryes to the babies

[@markwhite3958]

The reporter is a disgrace!

[@gaspode505]

NHS is understaffed that it could be Torries austerity measures 😢 Public only cares since there were children. During pandemic old people just suffocating and passing away 😢

[@kevinxgreen]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@OperationMerlinFalcon]

Get to work investigating what was reported in the 2016 Care Quality Commission's Report. The Thirlwall Inquiry has also revealed pertinent information regarding the CQC. Bring investigative journalism back! It's very much needed in this case.

[@AllenMorris3]

If the Jurors are lied to you don't have to respect their verdict.

[@manoo422]

It is appalling that someone can be sent to prison for their whole life when there is no hard evidence of any foul play...!!

[@knoxy6884]

So the notes found in her bedroom aren't 'hard evidence?'

[@sashaboo72]

@@knoxy6884exactly! What innocent person would write all that stuff?

[@micca903]

@@knoxy6884They are very ambiguous. This isn’t hard evidence.

[@TheMentalblockrock]

Foul play, there were never any chickens involved.....

[@manoo422]

@@TheMentalblockrock Ok, ok its a typo, corrected.