Liturgy of the Hours (Collins vs Catholic Book Publishing

[@duromusabc]

The 2019 Collins version gets its responsories and Bible readings from the New Jerusalem Bible ; the 1975 USA LOTH gets its responsories and Bible readings from the 1970 New American Bible (NAB)

[@ConvincedCatholicism]

Thanks

[@austinkent8811]

Partially true, both offices use the grail psalms afaik, not the psalter from those Bible translations.

[@TheRomanOrthodox]

To be honest, and I was a traditionalist Catholic before becoming Orthodox, I have always thought the hate for the new Liturgy of the Hours to be unmerited in some respects. The art is different but not horrible or distracting, the scriptural translation is okay, and the typesetting is easy to read. The collects and hymns are atrocious, but there you are. I have an edition of A Short Breviary released shortly before The Liturgy of the Hours, and it reflects many of the coming changes. It was my go-to for a while. I will try to post a video about it this week if possible.

[@ConvincedCatholicism]

I will check that video out.

[@Ortho_pilgrim]

@TheRomanOrthodox I felt the same way! I've actually always believed that praying the LOTH as a Trad during Covid had a hand in bringing me to Orthodoxy.

[@Arkangilos]

It’s because they took out psalm verses and entire psalms because they are “harsh”. With the older ones you prayed the entire psalter, with the new one you will never pray the entire psalter, and there are some psalms you will never pray completely

[@TheRomanOrthodox]

@@Arkangilos I definitely understand the frustration, but as a private devotion, it isn't that bad (for Catholics).

[@Arkangilos]

@@TheRomanOrthodox it is awful as a private devotion specifically because it cuts it out and calls it official, and treats the words of God as offensive. Oh, and it doesn’t tell people so unless people know the psalms they likely won’t realize it and they will have a different perception of who God is.

[@jdelarosa89]

I enjoy the Catholic Publishing text- I like the way it looks and feels in the hands. I use the divine office application to help get me through organization when I get lost.

[@ConvincedCatholicism]

I love the app for help

[@vivacristorey4363]

Thank you for doing this comparison. I have the opposite opinion about the psalm prayer. It does not take away from the scriptural roots of the divine office as its entire purpose is to pray about the psalm which is itself scripture. The patristics in the office of readings help us to better understand scripture. Likewise, the psalm prayer uses the wisdom of the Church to pray in a direct way the theme of the psalm without replacing it. It is not a necessary addition, but a beautiful one. Innovation is not always bad. The collects are pretty much the same thing. They are not scripture, but a way for us to prayerfully collect our thoughts to the theme of this or that particular feast day.

[@ConvincedCatholicism]

Fair point

[@FourEyedFrenchman]

16:34 Yes, the Psalm-prayers are optional. When I've heard the office prayed in community, the Psalm-prayers have always been skipped. Hopefully the updated English LOTH we're supposed to be getting sometime next year takes them out, along with the children's drawings that passed for art when the current edition came out. I also know that the rubrics allow one to skip the hymn in private recitation of the office (General Instruction, paragraphs 42 & 173). That's usually what I do when praying the office alone, and I make up for that by adding a Hail Mary and the Apostle's Creed to the Our Father that is said at the end of the Intercessions. There's no rubric that says you have to do that, it's just personal preference on my part for when I skip the hymns.

[@ConvincedCatholicism]

I typically enjoy the hymn even if its just said aloud not sung

[@albertsmyth9616]

Very interesting and informative video as usual, thank you. The one thing that the new Baronius Press pre-Vatican II Breviary set has in common with both of these post-Vatican II Breviaries is that all three of them have expunged the ‘thee’ and ‘thou’ for ‘you’ and ‘yours’ which I have a big problem with. Most people will disagree with me and have no problem with that at all, but I can’t stand it for, as I can’t read Latin that’s why I use the Ordinariate Commonwealth Edition (I’m an Englishman) Divine Worship Daily Office Breviary which has the incomparably beautiful (in my personal opinion) 17th Century English, which adds immeasurably to my daily prayers. It’s all about personal preference!

[@ConvincedCatholicism]

I really wish I had the money for the Baronius set!

[@albertsmyth9616]

@@ConvincedCatholicism The Baronius set are expensive. I live in a religious community with 10 priests, nearly all of whom use the Baronius Breviaries so I was able to have a thoroughly good look at them and they are beautifully produced but as I said in my comment, the use of ‘you’ and ‘yours’ instead of ‘thee’ and ‘thou’ leave me absolutely cold. I’m a strange fellow!

[@Romero610]

@@albertsmyth9616 Is the Baronius Press Breviaries hard to use ?

[@albertsmyth9616]

@@Romero610 My priest friends who use them say not. They are breviaries for the clergy though, so they are of their nature somewhat complicated. Apparently Baronius Press give instructional help with the breviaries and online on how to use them.

[@duromusabc]

Awesome video on the comparisons

[@ConvincedCatholicism]

Thanks!

[@farfisaorgan]

There is also a third version of the Liturgy of the Hours in English. It is the Liturgy of the Hours for Africa which is published by the Daughters of St Paul. It uses the Revised Grail Psalter which is somewhat different from that in the UK and USA versions, but it has the same version of scripture and the same translation of the readings from the Fathers as does the North American edition. It is printed in Rome and does not have the uninspiring artwork as does the North American editions. The calendar is also more up to date than either of the other editions, but it does not have the most recent feasts instituted by Pope Francis. It also commemorates many saints specific to Africa.

[@ConvincedCatholicism]

Thanks for the info!

[@TEAMLeaderConsulting]

Do they make a one volume version like the Christian Prayer book?

[@ConvincedCatholicism]

@@TEAMLeaderConsulting Yes! It’s called Morning and Evening Prayer

[@AmericanShia786]

As usual, your book review and comparison were very helpful. I got a more extended look at the Collins Divine Office, which confirmed that I would prefer the Collins Set to the 4 Volume Set. Since my formative years with the liturgy and prayers of the Roman Rite were after the Mass began to be said in English, but before the Liturgy of Pope Saint Paul VI was promulgated, I seem to be in a no man's land when it comes to the Mass and the Daily Office. I don't hate the Four Volume Liturgy of the Hours. However, I like the Collins Three Volume better for everything except the cover. What really appeals to me is not the 1962 Latin -English Daily Office. It is the Anglican Breviary (pre-1955) and the latest Anglican Office Book that really appeals to me. I like a One Volume Breviary best. That's where the Anglican Breviary works for me. It has extensive sermons and hagiography. The Anglican Office Book doesn't have the Sermons and Hagiography. However, it has the entire Bible. I can use Didache and The Wisdom of Solomon and 1st and 2nd Maccabees in place of Sermon and Hagiography. The One Volume Benedictine Daily Prayer - A Short Breviary, also has lots of sermons. However, I am a not a big fan of the NRSV. But, I still own a copy. I did purchase the 4 Volume Divine Office this past Spring. Almost immediately, I had buyers remorse. Previously, I was only dimly aware of the Collins set. However, after I had the 4 Volume Divine Office, I came upon reviews and a screenshot of the one of the Collins volumes. My hear sank. I would have much preferred the Collins Edition. For the most part my Four Volume Divine Office is not used. I went back to the two Anglican Offices that I have. So, I spent my money unwisely for my needs. After that experience, I decided to take a break from buying any books until next year. At the time, I may buy the more expensive edition of the Collins 1 volume Office. There are not as many sermons as the 3 Volume Set. But, at least the book will be used.

[@ConvincedCatholicism]

I too prefer a one volume breviary. I have yet to find one that fits my schedule or lifestyle. I like Benedictine Daily Prayer but something just doesnt feel right about not praying an official prayer of the church. I also don't like the length of "the Vigil" in BDP

[@dalecaldwell]

As the Church in England and Wales replaces the Jerusalem Bible with the English Standard Buible in the Missal, will they also reprint the Daily Prayer volumes? (Also, I think that the Commonwealth versions are used in Canada.)

[@ConvincedCatholicism]

I wonder! I would imagine yes but years later

[@Mark3ABE]

Interestingly, the current version of the Divine Office (that is, the English three volume version - I am not sure about the American four volume version) decided to make use of a number of different translations of the Sacred Scriptures. So, you will find passages from the Jerusalem Bible, the RSV, the Knox and also, surprisingly, the Good News Bible (TEV). The Catholic Church in England and Wales adopted the RSV for all teaching and study purposes and then the second edition (1971/72) when this came out. Finally, the ESV is now to replace the RSV. For some reason, the English Bishops decided that moving from the RSV to the ESV for teaching and study purposes might be an opportunity to use it to replace the Jerusalem Bible in the Lectionary. However, this project has not been without incident! Firstly, at some point, a decision was made to introduce gender neutral language. Now, the best way of introducing gender neutral language would have been to have decided to adopt the NRSV, already in use in Canada, since that uses gender neutral language and was carefully prepared by a large team of very skilled translators to to so effectively. However, Rome had decided, after approving the NRSV for use in Canada, that it would not be approved for any other country, since it failed to comply with the norms for Biblical translation, that is to say, it used gender neutral language! So, the English Bishops decided, well, we can’t use the NRSV to obtain the gender neutral language which we so much desire, because Rome will not permit it. Why not adopt the ESV and then make our own modifications to the text to introduce gender neutral language, bypassing the restrictions imposed by Rome? The result is not a happy one. The NRSV was very carefully prepared, so that the use of gender neutral language is, in so far as is possible when what is involved is falsifying the actual words of the Sacred Scriptures, quite readable. The ESV, as modified in haste for the English Lectionary, does not achieve a happy result. It would have been far better to have simply retained the Jerusalem Bible. It is very Catholic and very English and reads very well, which is why it was adopted for use in the Lectionary in the first place instead of the RSV, which, while entirely accurate, as a direct, literal translation from the original texts, does not always read quite as well as the Jerusalem Bible. Pope Benedict XVI had already considered the Jerusalem Bible very carefully and had asked for several changes to be introduced for use in the Lectionary, in particular, instead of using “YAHWEH” he wanted to revert to using “the Lord” “the Almighty” “God” etc as in earlier English translations. This is because the Jews never pronounced the name of Almighty God - they did not include vowels when writing it, to make it clear that it should never be said out loud. Pope Benedict XVI wished to preserve this ancient reverence. He made one or two other changes and then a version of the Bible was prepared, called the “New Catholic Bible” which is the 1966 edition of the Jerusalem Bible, with the modifications introduced in the Lectionary introduced into the text in that Bible as well. So, we really had the best of all possible worlds and now we have a mangled version of the ESV which reads very awkwardly in some places because of the forced introduction of gender neutral language. Then, we still do not have a single translation for use both for teaching and study purposes and for use in the Lectionary, since the norms for Biblical translation do not permit the use of gender neutral language, or any other departure from a literal translation of the original texts, in a translation used for teaching and study purposes.

[@anthonysalomone3698]

Thank you!

[@otiovoic9595]

Do you know anyplace to find a six ribbon insert?

[@ConvincedCatholicism]

@@otiovoic9595 everything seems to be 5 ribbons max

[@johnmartin4650]

So what’s the translation of the Collins book ? Revised Standard Version (Catholic Edition)? A mediocre comparison!

[@ConvincedCatholicism]

As many have mentioned the translations are various (Jerusalem, Knox etc.) cant wait to see your comparison video. I hope it’s not mediocre but I am sure someone will find something to nitpick.

[@godogsgo100]

Yes. You are losing your train of thought! Maybe get the train back on the tracks and do another video. Remember what St. Paul said about whatever you do make sure to do it as if you’re doing it unto The Lord. This concludes today’s lesson junior!

[@ConvincedCatholicism]

Do you talk to people like this in real life?