LIVE: Big 12 Cease and Desist; Conference Realignment Scenarios | 365 Sports Radio | 7.28.21

[@genekeeth2179]

KZbin's algorithm finally got something right...I found and love your show!

[@chrishammond4647]

Facts

[@jacquessmith3836]

Thanks to the KZbin algorithms , i found a great show that’s nothing but sports , no politics… all the way from the DMV … loving the content

[@chocolatechipslime]

You are from the Divison of Motor Vehicles?

[@CraizyLeGzz]

@@chocolatechipslime it stands for the DC, Maryland, and Virginia metro area.

[@austinlovitt8298]

Good show and glad I randomly found it. I’ve been listening for a few days catching up. A different perspective than we have in SEC country (MS). It’s a nice break from all the SEC talking heads that are forced upon us by ESPN, and can’t seem to keep the politics out of my college football. Thanks for keeping the politics out.

[@seekknowledgeunderst]

Oklahoma and Texas help me find the channel , great show

[@dhuck470]

Most everyone in the SEC pulls for the other teams in the conference and we are actively searching for at least 2 more big time schools like Clemson and/or Ohio State, Notre Dame, Florida State, etc.

[@codywilson3043]

Love the show ! Thanks for all the time you put into it !

[@codywilson3043]

I’m from Illinois and your content and the way you explain the situations intrigue me and has me thinking what. The future could be for college football

[@BamaScorpio69]

Glad I found you guys. Tired of listen to the local sports radio shows here in Birmingham that are too giddy over Texas and OU....🤮

[@dhuck470]

The SEC can pay the buyout fee for any team it wants to add

[@dhuck470]

Both OK. And Texas will get at the minimum 55 million per year in the SEC and that will increase with both of those 2 added to the tv contract. It could go close to 80 million each in the first year

[@JeremiahDoctsonFitness]

This honestly just really sucks for the remaining 8. We're not talking about just football, it completely changes the entire University atmosphere and recruiting of regular students too....kids want to go to big time schools that are in the media and national spotlight ie play big time football. As a TCU fan I hope we have some of our Presidents working together behind the scenes right now

[@dhuck470]

Just think one of the other 8 will win the conference and probably head to the playoffs

[@texpatriot8462]

Sunbelt is calling the Bears

[@machtschnell7452]

I do not think Baylor meets their standards.

[@palermotrapani9067]

There was comment in the Chat that said the P5 had to have 85 Scholarships. Not true, they have to have as many scholarships for both Men's and Women's sports. The 85 Scholarship requirement was a vote in the late 1980's when DI hit 130 schools. So the G5 were able to vote the 85, which many of the SEC, old BIG8, etc did not want. This was done so they could try and compete and get the scholarships down so they could comply with Title IX. The SEC for example if they get more $$$ from TV deals could increase the scholarships back to 95, which it was in the late 70's or back to 105 which it was when Scholarship limits were first imposed in 1973. The fights between what we know today as the P5 and G5, D2, D3, etc and NCAA goes back to the 1970's. In the late 1960's/1970, there may have been 60 to 70 D1 teams, by the era 1980-1985 it was 130. When the Scholarships in 1973 were set at 105, some President from Cal-state Long Beach around 1977/1978 wanted to set them at 65! and take all the Money from what was then NCAA College football (ole Keith Jackson, former OU coach Bud Wilkenson, Frank Broyles, etc) and only let the P5 have 50% to allocate and take 25% and give it to D2 and the other to D3. That same guy wanted to set the limit at 65. The P5 threatened to form a 4th division at that time, the NCAA threatened to sue. Rather than the P5 form a Super league then and challenge NCAA, they compromised to 95 scholarships/30 max a year and the TV money which the P5 earned stayed with them. Still the NCAA controlled al the TV. A team could only be on National TV 6 times in a 2 year period. When ABC did not put you on, no TV. OU negotiated with Cable TV providers to televise OU home games in the state of OK and the NCAA filed a lawsuit. Georgia in the SEC was doing the same thing. NCAA sent a desist order to both schools they did not case went to court and SCOTUS 7-2 ruled in favor or OU and UGA. That resulted in schools and conferences negotiating TV rights and revenues grew and grew. But someone writing the history of the NCAA can see that the NCAA's entire model was on shaky grounds back on 27 June 1984 when SCOTUS ruled 7-2 against them. In 1984 ESPN and CBS got into College Football TV and by 1992 the SEC expanded to 12 and all the SEC teams pooled their TV rights with the SEC Commissioner, then Kramer, and he negotiated for the entire SEC and created what was the first Playoff game, the SEC Championship between East and West Division. Interestingly, it was 1992 that the NCAA cut scholarships to 85.

[@machtschnell7452]

I thought the 85 scholarships was a limit on football programs by the NCAA? Never heard previously of any application to female athletes sports.

[@palermotrapani9067]

@@machtschnell7452 The 85 was imposed by the NCAA on P5 due to increase in number of non-P5 D1 schools. It is the limit for D1 which is P5 and G5. To comply with Title IX, most be equitable sports opportunities proportional to sports. Obviously Football has not peer. The total number of Scholarships for Men's sports can't be > than what you provide for Woman's sports, not counting football. The reason most schools have more Women's sports is because there are no other sports that require 85. So LSU has 10 Woman's sports and 8 Men's that in total have the same number of scholarships. Any Team with a football program has difficulty complying with Title IX, more so non P5 schools. I can't give you the exact formula but football scholarships factor into how a School is complying with Title IX. So think about a non P5 when D1 Scholarships were 105, which was the case till 1978, or even 95 which it was till 1992. I am sure there are some Sports Law articles that document the precise formula. Still, the 85 Scholarships for football does factor into Title IX compliance. Sorry my first post was not clearer on that point.

[@JamieTheBangles11Fan]

you have to add the most value you can when it comes to a program. IMO that would start with BYU. I don't know what they can offer BYU, but they should be sending them anything and everything they can to join. After that, the most attractive piece not in a power 5 is probably UCF. I'm not crazy about USF, but I would imagine they would want them to join if they come along. Instead of being on an island all alone. So that would leave one more school. I'm not sure anyone else really adds any value at all. Maybe you add Houston or Cinci, just because they would be close to other Big 12 schools. Grant it Cinci would only be close to WVU. But the Big 12, better get back to 12 to add some stability.

[@chrislieberman]

The CFP needs to expand to the top12 teams ASAP.

[@joshgilstrap6858]

When Louisville joined the ACC all I seen was billboards with ACC all over town. Make a big12 east and include UCONN then everyone that works at ESPN will see BIG12 all day everyday

[@dhuck470]

If 3 teams, or 1 more the conference will be disbanded

[@mattcal6423]

Fox is looking at ESPN saying “we better do something!!!” Fox should have moved OU games away from the 11 am slot. You had your chance Fox… ya blew it.

[@larrypilgrim12]

They will be fine with the big 10 and pac 12. More viewers than the the SEC.

[@mattcal6423]

@@larrypilgrim12 If that’s the case, then why they rolling Bowlsby out with a “cease and desist” complaint against ESPN? BTW they won’t have more viewers than ESPN after Texas and OU roll over to ESPN. ESPN will have SEC and ACC on lock. PAC 12 nobody watches out there and even though Big 10 has a lot of TV’s now that they added their East Coast footprint, who really watches Rutgers and Maryland? Fox is in trouble on this one. They know it

[@larrypilgrim12]

@@mattcal6423 Bowlsby is pissed at ESPN. Pac 12 and Big 10 have many viewers. Arizona to Washington, California to Colorado. Big ten gets more money than the SEC. Nobody is watching Rutgers, Arizona wildcats, or Vanderbilt for that matter. I don't know why people think nobody is watching. And I lived in Utah, you would go to a sportsbar for lunch and you would have games from the midwest and eastcost on with nobody watching. Eyes in front of a tv vs the tv being on is completely different. Pac needs to allow directtv access as dishes are what sports are being broadcast on. With streaming services due to bid on the pac in a couple of years that is what ESPN and Fox should worry about. Not having to pay for a dish or cable subscription is a winner! I would pay 200 to be able to watch my conference. That is where it's going in my opinion. The networks are in trouble from streaming services, sports are going to eventually be a streaming package.

[@larrypilgrim12]

@@mattcal6423 I would not be shocked if Google purchases rights to big 10 and pac 12 sports. Being alumnists of the big 10 and based in the pac 12. It wouldn't surprise me at all.

[@mattcal6423]

@@larrypilgrim12 big 10 gets more money than SEC currently, but my understanding is that the ESPN contract with the SEC is amendable and will increase if other teams are brought in. Oklahoma and Texas will easily push the SEC ahead of the current BIG contract. I’m hearing that the BIG and PAC 12 are talking about figuring out some type of merger or enhanced partnership. I actually like that idea. Anyway back to my original point, regardless of how much Fox is making from BIG and PAC tv rights, losing Oklahoma and Texas, and ultimately the Big 12 is a massive dent to them. That is all

[@benjaminhawkes6693]

I think the only option any of the eight really have (aside from maybe Kansas as a side note to a Big-10 raid of the PAC) is some clandestine deal between ESPN and the PAC or the ACC to take enough of the schools to fold the conference, save them the larger payout (dropping it to 9 mil for the final four odd years) and get OU and Texas out of the exit fee. If they owe just over 1 billion currently (assuming that is to just the eight remaining schools and my back of the napkin math suggests it is probably right around that) it drops to about 1/3 of that leaving 600 million to bribe another conference with (which means only the exit fees are truly saved if they spend all of that). If you offer a 2 million a year bump per school and the full (eventually) payout to the new members... you could maybe coax the ACC into another bad deal/desperate move and extend them another 5 or 10 years. I'm sure this embodiment of the Peter Principle running the ACC would jump at something like that. It would cost MORE in the end but ESPN would get a longer lock out of it and if the rights fees aren't a bubble but are about to grow even more with competition from new players like Amazon or Netflix. The ACC would probably even do a terrible job with negotiations and leave themselves with no route to increasing revenue (selling all their rights etc.) if history is any indication. The question is, which three are most desirable from there. It probably isn't Baylor and certainly isn't K-State. I think Kansas, TCU and maybe Oklahoma State. I really think Iowa State is useless to everyone. The AAU status isn't enough of a selling point for the BIG-10 to take ISU. Buffalo or Tulane are more desirable AAU institutions for their needs and I can't ever see them considering those.

[@p23570]

let the baylor butthurt replenish me, lord, amen.

[@mattcal6423]

😂😂😂

[@larrypilgrim12]

I guess Texas got tired of abusing their ugly wife and left for the hot chick!

[@machtschnell7452]

What is truly amazing is that the remaining 8 dwarves think that Asleep at the Wheel Bowlsby can really help them when it is so obviously and demonstrably not true. He is the Angel if Death for the B12

[@goop3213]

I'm pretty sure Texas hasn't abused anybody over the past 10 years... its what's so sickening about this whole deal...you pretend to be the elite big dog but in reality they're not so they start bragging you bring in the most money to make up for your inept football program for the past 10 years ... well Texas is the largest state in the country ...we all learned math in grade school!!! Theres nothing elite about it

[@shawneehill514]

Well, I understand what you are saying but money is always king. So in the end this move is most certainly going to hurt the remaining schools very bad. Not only money wise but in prestige as well. I can’t blame OU and Texas for it nor do I blame the Big 12 for being mad either. Thanks for your comment and have a great day!!

[@chrislieberman]

I hope Oklahoma and Texas can move o the SEC in 2023.

[@aped3]

Do a LIVE interview with a TEXAS Super Fan !!!

[@prosmokeprochokeantibroke]

And Craig Way

[@danhauser3361]

Think strategically…!!!!! There may be some picking off of Teams in the future by Power 4! Matter of fact….you can bet on it! So make the Big 12 as big as possible to handle a couple of losses….ie …WVa / Iowa St! So how about a merger of Big8 with AAC with 11 teams. Plus adding BYU! Making 20 teams in 3 time zones! Could have 2 Divisions of 10 and 4 groups of 5. This automatically makes you a Power 5 Conference with a chip in the game! You add numerous large markets And ability to withstand the future! Collect the exit money from UT / OU and then charge an entrance fee to the AAC to get into league and an exit fee for all teams!

[@benwoodruff1321]

The guy at the end talking about Kentucky joining the Big 12 was probably the dumbest statement I have ever heard about football.

[@greg4ou]

OU will never fall like Nebraska! 😂 who is that last caller kidding. He has zero knowledge of the recruiting game. Nebraska lost their recruiting ties to the south

[@johncarnegie5358]

Why would or do SEC schools want Texas and Oklahoma? It is already hard enough with the SEC conference being stacked, are selection teams going to change criteria for tournaments? I am not just talking about football, but basketball, baseball, softball and so on. A few weeks ago the SEC had to beat up on each other in the College World Series.

[@machtschnell7452]

Yeah and Texas was third. Ever heard of the NCAA? The SEC and it's derivatives will replace it in 5 years.

[@johncarnegie5358]

@@machtschnell7452 The is NCAA overall is at point we’re it is in over its head. It was not created to do what it is doing now, however I don’t see the NCAA going away. My original point was simply that if the SEC is given for example 8 spots in a tournament but the 10th team in the SEC is better than or equal too the other conferences 1st or 2nd team it doesn’t seem fair that the SEC 10th team wouldn’t get to compete. I also don’t think none SEC fans like watching the SEC be so dominant in sports is all.

[@BigbubbaNeSmith]

See thank you, everyone is like BIG12 will fold. No I think Big12 and American merge into a new Power 5 at par with the PAC12, ACC - Clemson and BIG10 - OSU

[@machtschnell7452]

That is what Pants Down Bowlsby accused ESPN of trying to accomplish. I would think that is such an offer were made, the remaining 8 dwarves in the former B12 should jump at it. Especially Baylor, KU, KSU and TCU.

[@teeduck]

Big and pac aren’t taking anyone. Stay together collect $$$$$$$$++

[@valdismoseley6935]

Espn has a lot of chit with them.

[@christopherfarias808]

I’m a UH fan it’s funny UT was a big reason why UH was not allowed to join the Big 12 they must have seen them a s threat UH beat Ok St,Texas Tech, to prove they belong then ask to join and UT comes out and says NO!

[@teeduck]

Can’t you file a complaint with FBI for racketeering, collusion.

[@Soonerfrk11]

No big dawg, you can’t

[@teeduck]

@@Soonerfrk11 dept of Justice?

[@liberalmadness7248]

The FBI is busy helping democrats rig elections.

[@machtschnell7452]

@@liberalmadness7248 Too bad they are not offering free treatment for paranoid Nazis.

[@machtschnell7452]

Actually, I believe the NCAA has a Congressional monopoly exemption.

[@goop3213]

The existence of an underdog having a cinderella season is completely taken away from a sport like college football and its just wrong!!!

[@slibertas1996]

The ACC is not getting ND. The Big 10 is

[@palermotrapani9067]

Really, Notre Dame has a long history of trying to get in the B1G but being a Catholic School prevented that, not as much maybe in the 1950's but pre WW2 it was the dominant reason. In addition, Notre Dame while a Carnegie Tier 1 Research School is not AAU designated which requires significant research in National Academy of Science fields, Medical Research generated from your Medical School and Engineering. The B1G has in its Bylaws they will not take a non AAU member school. Are they all of a sudden going to change that for Notre Dame? Would Notre Dame be told by the B1G if they want in they have to change their Mission to fit the B1G. ACC requires Carnegie Tier 1 Research status, which all their schools have. FYI, out of 5,300 Universities and Colleges in the USA, only about 130 are Carnegie Tier 1 Research. All current SEC Schools are Carnegie Tier 1 Research (Vandy, Florida, Mizzou, and Texas A&M are AAU) and the PAC12 9 are AAU, but 3 do not have it but are Carnegie Tier 1 Research (ASU, OSU, WSU).

[@slibertas1996]

@@palermotrapani9067 Notre Dame is AAU in all but name.

[@palermotrapani9067]

@@slibertas1996 They don't have a Medical school and all in name does not equal being AAU. So then by definition, they are not AAU. I spelled out what AAU designation requires. Notre Dame does not have a Medical School so they can't have Medical research. They do have a College of Engineering and offer PhD programs in that college, so they have the Research $$$ there and produce PhD students. They have a College of Science with all the National Academy of Science Disciplines but don't offer enough PhD programs in those areas. So Research productivity here is not enough Notre Dame is a great school. For millions of Catholic immigrants from Ireland, Italy, Poland, etc (of which I am part of) it was a source of pride. Notre Dame balances its Catholic Tradition of education with its Law School and excellent academics in other disciplines. It is again a Carnegie Tier 1 Research School. I know of no Catholic University that is part of AAU. Not sure the mission is compatible.

[@johncarnegie5358]

Norte Dame plays in the ACC in every other sport. They are independent for football so if they joined a conference the ACC makes sense.

[@Bucktit1029]

More Ohio state content

[@Field_Marshall]

Man I hope Alabama jump ship join the NFL just to screw with the SEC

[@Boi-xc4dk]

Short term thinking

[@danhauser3361]

Mud!!! How many teams in Texas have won a Championship in the last 10 years!!! Houston ….TCU……Sam Houston Houston only one to Best OU the Big12 banner holder! No Texas No AM No Baylor No Tech No SMU No WVa No Iowa St Why are they so much better in their minds????

[@robbishilts8111]

The NCAA needs to just shut down all the conferences and redistribute all the teams evenly!! ESPN needs to be boycotted

[@palermotrapani9067]

They have no authority to do so. How can an organization based on Indianapolis, IN tell SEC schools what they can or can't. NCAA's authority was already shown to be on Constitutional shaky ground when SCOTUS ruled against the NCAA 7-2 on 27 June 1984 and in favor of OU and UGA regarding them holding all the Rights to negotiate Football TV rights (violation of Sherman Anti-Trust) From 1952 to 1984, the NCAA argued they had to the rights to decide who could appear on TV and how often in a 2 year period. The SEC is not preventing anyone from negotiating their own TV rights. Schools in the Western USA (PAC12 footpring) are free to do their thing, Schools in the Mountain West same thing, Schools in the B1G same thing.. SCOTUS ruling on NIL was 9-0 against NCAA was also based on Sherman Anti-Trust regarding them violating student-athletes the right to negotiate compensation for the NIL. NCAA is DUN Done.

[@chrishammond4647]

Screw Boise State 😂

[@goop3213]

Yeah...ask OU what they think about Boisie State??

[@chrishammond4647]

@@goop3213 doubt they even remember

[@matthewramirez1186]

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