Live Fire Mounted Shooting: How Accurate?

[@jason60chev]

I was at a Cowboy action match in Texas, in 1997.One stage had a mechanical horse set up, with a saddle. You mounted the "horse", were handed your loaded rifle. Loaded pistol in holster. At the buzzer, they turned the thing on! While bouncing around, you engaged 10 rifle targets about 20 yards away, handed off your rifle, then draw your pistol, engaging 5 targets at a lesser distance. I missed every rifle target, but somehow hit the five steel plates!!! It was CHALLENGING!!! There was a similar stage where you were sitting on a wagon seat with a bunch of sprngs, which bounced you around and you had to engage multipleshotgun tagets.

[@BrettBaker-uk4te]

Quantrill's Raiders could not be reached for comment.

[@mikecohen2400]

You might want to read accounts of the Calvary raids of John Singleton Mosby in particular their forswearing of the saber, in lieu of arming themselves with as many pistol that they could find, so in a Mele close quarters cavalry fight, they relied on their pistols, and sawed off shot guns, and used them to great effect.

[@SLOROB55]

More like two or three yards and not at a gallop.

[@82ismi]

Pistols were used in close combat as a sort of extended sword for centuries. They were mostly part of the horse equipment, not the trooper.

[@Scott-qq9jd]

I've been waiting for this video. I'm a longtime shooter who recently started learning to ride, with a primary interest in military equestrianism.

[@joecuppko40uh29]

Just a note from a old guy that used to shoot from horseback, it's kind of like shooting from a ship, try to shoot as your gun is coming up. Yeah I know it ain't easy to learn or to time. At 12 years old I trained my Mustang mare to let me shoot from her back and to stand and let me shoot a rifle braced across the saddle, started out with a cap pistol. Love the channel & all that you & your group does. I am an old Paratrooper so watching you guys trying to experience what soldiers did 150 years ago is very interesting. & for a first time you did very well, shooting the carbine is going to be an experience for you & your horse, be careful for both of you.

[@JonDesautels]

I'm wondering how often troopers targeted horses, as they were a much bigger target, rather than troopers? Once you take the horse out that trooper could very well end up as a prisoner. Which is probably why the number of Union troopers who died at Andersonville in some cav regiments was as many as or more than died in combat.

[@ianmcclellan7695]

Really interesting video, I can only applaud what you do on the channel and with the wider 11th OVC to set the standard for ‘Living History’. I keep sharing your videos on Twitter and telling my fellow history enthusiasts here in the UK about your great work. As for the test itself it’s fascinating and I think you’ve identified some interesting issues around how effective horse-bound shooting was compared to dismounted. Thanks for sharing what you do.

[@dingram1066]

Some other factors to take into account are recoil, barrel, links, and the fact that the Sigg 320 is designed for modern shooter, so two hands may be walking may be running where the 1860 army was designed to be shot one-handed from foot or horseback.

[@toddkoster6423]

The longer barrel of the Colt may have provided a better "point shooting front sight". Obviously, it's not lining up the sights, but using the longer "sight radius" of the longer barrel. Or your Sig hates you.

[@jasond1433]

I was thinking this as well, combined with perhaps the added barrel weight making the longer/heavier pistol a bit more stable.

[@ronsalisbury6009]

First I want to thank you for producing videos that inspire interest in the Civil War and particularly the Cavalry in that war. One small note I will point out that when firing stationary with your modern pistol, you used a two hand grip. On horseback you used a one hand grip. With the period Colt you always used a one hand grip. Maybe that consistency was part of your better score with the revolver.

[@andhelm7097]

I read that during the Indian mutiny one cavalry officer fired 6 rounds ,missed with all and had to use his sabre to finish off the Indian mutineer

[@geraldszaal7791]

Don’t feel to bad. I believe I read somewhere Custer was shooting at a buffalo once and put a bullet in the brain pan of his own horse. At least your horse survived.😂🤣😂

[@gallantcavalier3306]

What about the fact that after the war, most troopers didn’t have any riding or firearms training until they reached their frontier garrisons, and even then they got almost no training in the use of their weapons?

[@kevinyost6310]

Steve, your videos are awesome keep them up!

[@GoldenArrow77]

I’m actually impressed by how well you shot considering the various dynamic factors involved. I wonder if the better results with the period revolver versus the modern auto aren’t due to the weight distribution and inertia of the former. Interesting video in any case however.

[@jean-charlesblanc8454]

congratulations for so many hits when shooting mounted from a galloping horse, next I would reduce the distance to about 3 yards or closer.

[@williamgay5408]

One thing we could consider is that in a rider to rider fight the target would be moving as well as the shooter!

[@stephencarson2951]

Love how you explain everything

[@rogerlafrance6355]

First in war, your crowd shooting into a crowd, most often and somebody will get hit and all will duck at mass repeater fire. Horsemanship is key and hard to put the time in, even in Wyoming. Well done on getting horse to ignore the boom. Besides a good seat, good hands and in this case, the left following the horse and the right staying on target, relative to the ground. One way to see this is to ride with a cup of coffee in you off hand.

[@grailknight6794]

Great video! And good shooting considering you havent done mounted shooting at a target more than on foot but remember if you did practice more... or had "experience".. doing it in the field back in the day you would get better, another thing to remember is that cavalry shooting doesnt always matter individual target because shooting at a group your chances of hitting something gets higher. Also in real combat horses are a target sadly. Also thats a reason why cavalry had swords/sabres until ww1 when you cant hit , just charge and scewer them lol.

[@SLOROB55]

You get better, are you die.

[@SLOROB55]

Predict you will shoot the sig better on the ground, and be about the same in the saddle. The effective range of a saber is about a yard. The general consensus was a pistol was better than a saber as long as it was loaded. Generally speaking in a saber fight the better horseman could best the better saber all else being equal. The folks shooting ballon’s might tell you having your horse move off seat and leg is at least as important as your marksman ship. I think the ballon shooters might be more realistic in their range. Thanks for your videos. Great work.

[@SLOROB55]

Should have shot the sig one handed on the ground.

[@connercollins2972]

I think I read that Elmer Keith grew up around some civil war vets and actually had one of them borrow his colt navy and put 6 shots in a fence post at a dead run. I want to say it was in his book Sixguns but not positive

[@nathane.perkins4794]

You should go to US Cavalry Compatition at Fort Reno in Oklahoma.

[@edwinlee6864]

The US Army FM Pistols and Revolvers back in the day, had a mounted drill of riding a figure eight with targets 7 yards away at the closest points. Hollywood not withstanding, you don't hit much mounted unless you are chargiing right past someone.

[@gallantcavalier3306]

I feel that both pistols will be difficult to fire on horseback. But because you’ve trained with the modern pistol more, perhaps it will be easier to hit the target while moving.

[@twostep1953]

That was fun! Now show us trying to clear and re-load your pistol - on horseback. By my count, even with paper cartridges that is 24 separate steps. I can see why Confederate troopers ditched the saber and rifle, but carried as many pistols as possible (as Mike Cohen said). Also, Mosby's men were guerilla fighters, officially enlisted in the C.S.A. but traveled to rendezvous locations trying to not attract attention - such as carrying a rifle or saber. (In his autobiography, Mosby said he men wore something to identify themselves as soldiers, but I suspect they rode in civilian clothes until they met up, and maybe even in combat.)

[@History_Coffee]

You look like time cop with the modern pistol in the period uniform😂

[@GrangerGangster]

An interesting difference is how you must aim off to the side while riding. Maybe another test would have you fire standing perpendicular to the target and holding your arm off to the side. Perhaps also set up an elevated seat to mimic your height while mounted and try the stationary test again that way to see if anything is different with the control results that might make the actual mounted test more similar.

[@jason60chev]

Question.......Though limited purchase/issuance by the military, I got to wondering if a soldier who was issued a detachable shoulder stock, for the 1860 Army revolver, was not also issued a carbine. In either case, when the stock was not attached to the revolver, just HOW was it carried?

[@mcgregorpiper]

Very interesting. If you attempt to try again, possibly you should shoot from the same height as you would be on horseback instead of from the ground

[@mickM1234]

ok first a comment before I watch the video, for a number of years I have ridden as broader reviver shooting both wheel lock pistols and long bow from horse back as referenced in a number of border ballads and contemporary documents at a similar range at the gallop. After hours of practice and varying successes with the wheel lock operation I can achieve good results with both bow and gun. so I would say once you have your eye in you will achieve similar if not better results.

[@mechcavandy986]

I don’t see how you hit anything off a moving horse. I never could. 🤠

[@SLOROB55]

Set up a saber range with pumpkins or ballon’s and ride it like you would with a saber using your pistol. Dragoons fought dismounted with carbine. Forget the movies.

[@Scott-qq9jd]

American Civil War-era cavalry in fact did use pistols while mounted. In fact as the war went on sabers were used less and less.

[@jacks520040]

Would like to see the 11bang bang channel and OVC have a match along these lines. Some yanks get wooped me thinks.

[@stephenfields6236]

You just need a larger target! Then practice practice practice.

[@MikeWhiskey427]

Before watching.... Im not familiar with black powder at all. But I had an old blackhawk Im sure I could do alright with. May not be a clean shot, but It would work. I dont think back then they cared if they hit the horse as much... at least some guys anyway

[@thomasbaagaard]

remember that you are very likely way way way better trained in how to shoot than the waste majority of civil war cavalrymen.

[@pfcjev]

I think you have to get out of the saddle and let the horse rock up and down independent of your body as much as possible. Your lower legs could bend and straighten out along with the horse like a car's suspension while letting your body stay on a relatively even plane. Then do the opposite of leading a target, instead of leading it, pre-lead it. Here's a 1938 footage of a US cavalrymen practicing mounted shooting. kzbin.info/www/bejne/a5XElZqwYq-Lha8si=Ox5zMv3BR8FgrvTZ

[@thehistoadian]

Epic

[@dougdukes1039]

If you put the 10 target on a man size target at on the chest, almost every hit would have been a hit, albeit mostly "gut shots". I dont think it was that bad and would have resulting in putting a Civil War soldier OUT OF ACTION. Congrats.

[@HobieH3]

Pre-watching comment - mounted groups 5 times the size of control groups, maybe worse.

[@edwinlee6864]

At ten yards, you won't hit the target mounted.

[@kyleowen2012]

No you will be 40 to 60% less accurate.

[@PaletoB]

Maybe a heavier pistol will "resist" movement more because of inertia? 🤔 Either way this needs more testing and knowing how much difference training and techniques make I hope you can do it some more 😊

[@Miningpastpresentfuture]

A couple of comments from an over the hill CW reenactor and Cowboy action shooter. 1). Your target zone is too small and unrealistic. You should take a photo of a mounted rider from a quartering front angle like you were meeting a charging rider coming at you. Blow up the dimensions to a full size horse and rider including the riders legs but nothing below the chest. Sketch out the outline on a large cardboard target board like a piece of plywood. Put it up at full rider height so you are not shooting down onto it. ANY hit counts. You are not necessarily trying for a kill shot. A downed horse or disabled man is an effective shot. 2). Don’t waste time aiming. Learn to point shoot. Practicing on the ground a lot first. Shooting balloons you just point and shoot and never actually aim. That works on balloon sized targets at 10 feet and the horse/rider target at 10 yards. Don’t expect consistent hits past 25 yards mounted.

[@rchmontreal]

I agree completely with your observations. He's beating himself up over not putting all his rounds in a dinner plate target at the gallop at 10 yards. Place those same overall hits on a man sized target and mount, he would be getting hits that might either kill or incapacitate. The truth also is knocking down the mount from underneath your opponent also disables his mobility and may also injure and take the fight out of the rider. A more realistic target that is "patched" between shoots would provide a more measurable result. Overall, well done.

[@MarkWaddell-b3x]

I say you will be 50% at Gallop, 4 out 6 at a canter or trot. This is when you said to comment.

[@robertfisher7949]

First practice makes perfect. Second shooting the horse is as effective as shooting the man. The evidence is in the history books. There were several Confederate units that did away with the saber and stuck with the pistol. Add that you fired the modern supported in the control and the period unsupported. Then both unsupported when mounted. Another thought is multiple targets stacked beside each other, would show better results. Also has your colt been sighted in or out of the box?

[@thomasbaagaard]

they did not "do away with sabers" because they wanted to. They had to, because there where not sufficient weapons to arm everyone with the regulation,. carbine, saber and revolver. So one squadron would have sabers and another would have pistols and a 3rd would have carbines (or infantry muskets often) and this was also a issue with federal cavalry early in the war... they just managed to solve it quicker. By late war the federal cavalry had become rather good at charging in with the saber, and the csa cavalry simply did not have a effective counter. You should also be careful confusing irregular units with regular cavalry. Two very different jobs they had to do.

[@82ismi]

Take into account these units were no professional military and didn't had trained for years with cold steel. Neither did they have enough quality sabers if they had sabers at all. The same in the indian wars, sabers were feared, but with the wider use of civil war dragoon tactics the respect was lost.

[@keithjones668]

I had always understood that cavalry revolvers had the long, 7-inch barrels because they were judged to handle better from horseback. The weight was out forward which gave a sensation of stability in the hand...where with the modern semi-auto pistol, the balance point (and weight) is in the grip where the ammo is stored. Additionally, the fact that the revolver has a short, single-action trigger gives it an advantage in this sort of exercise. Nice experiment...thank you

[@mickM1234]

So now having watched the video, I would say for a first time out, you did well. Practice is the key. I find that if you spur on, drop the rains to give the horse its head and stand high in the stirrups gives a a better platform to aim from, try not reach for the target and stay upright that will help raise you shot. Any how great video keep them coming and have fun with it

[@WillLynn-c2p]

Very good video, out of the box, I am LE, and carry a 320 although I am a Glock guy. Barrel length is key

[@HobieH3]

Nicely done. Sword looks good; antique or repro? I'm guessing that mounted against a moving target, the effective range is about 5 times the muzzle blast! Only one (sort of) joke: you're a brave man to be bouncing around like that with a SIG!

[@michaelhendricks9229]

I think it's a difference in trigger stroke. The colt has a very short pull, whereas the P320 has a long DAO pull.

[@mikecohen2400]

Ok I am not a great horse rider, but the things that affect shooting from a moving horse, are pretty consistent, gate of the horse, speed, movement of the horse’s body, saddle movement, movement of the rider, aiming, pistol weight at the end of an out Stretched arm, and target size and movement. In the 1860-1890’s plus hitting a man sized target, from horse back anywhere in the torso, could cause a killing injury due to lack of medical care, so a hit was more important then a perfect hit. With you moving, and the target moving, it is more like skeet shooting, then target shooting, you want to put rounds in the torso, not necessarily particular about where.

[@INeverMetAGunIDidntLike]

My prediction, from my personal attempts, it aint going to be easy. Good luck.

[@stevenhammer6323]

Now that I've seen the video it would appear that the sweet spot with a pistol would be just beyond saber length. I do believe you should do this with larger samples. At least 3 shooters, multiple runs per shooter. Also, it would be interesting to chart your learning curve.

[@richardlinneman594]

I think you are going to need alot more cardboard for the gallop with both of the pistols! Anyone that has shot from anything moving knows that hitting something even close seems impossible

[@snappers_antique_firearms]

I love this video. I have always wanted to shoot from horse back

[@Renfield37]

you did the best you could do for the first time.. but i do suspect that practicing enough for long enough you would be able to get it better. and it can depend on what kind of ammo you have.. a modern bullet is not quite as heavy as a lead bullet and might not hit the target as easier and could be effected more by the windage than a slightly heavier bullet... but when it is practiced with enough i am betting it could do more

[@stevenhammer6323]

I think you will find 10 yds challenging from a galloping horse.

[@edwinlee6864]

You did very well, especially for not training!!!

[@Arkhestra]

your audio is insanely crispy dear lord

[@rjohnson1690]

You guys weren’t able to hit me at Rosies. 😅

[@PaletoB]

Let's Go!

[@arfyego0682]

1:52 Seeing an 1860s cavalry trooper with a modern handgun is my new favorite thing ever.

[@williamdaniel4081]

IS your Horse Gun fire trained?

[@INeverMetAGunIDidntLike]

I'd say yes, otherwise, he would have ended up on the ground. LOL.

[@thomasbaagaard]

(would be strange if it was not use to blank firing at least)

[@josephknaak9034]

Is now