1st Edition Lore Was BONKERS | Warhammer 40K Lore

[@michaelsmith8028]

The old 40k art had no right to go so hard, but I'm glad it did.

[@datrickster8674]

Surely ahead of its time.

[@secretname2670]

​@user-nk7cy9wb2fassblasted much? Today's art is aptly described by what you think art of the past was.

[@dajokahbaby1506]

@@secretname2670Modern 40K art looks like generic, concept artist portfolio shit

[@PeachDragon_]

40k art going too hard is why you probably don't know battletech

[@bobhill9845]

Weird thing to say

[@DreadAnon]

I don’t know who this Dreadanon fella is but he sounds handsome AND successful

[@robbiestafford6889]

HEY KARK FOR BRAINS

[@Just_JoeKing-vf2sh]

I CATO SICARIUS FULLY AGREE

[@NCRVeteranRanger]

So true!

[@thelvadamee3767]

I don’t know who this DreadAnon guy is. that’s it.

[@neetuverma1726]

You said it pal, no 🧢 about that

[@balkenkreuz2063]

I still remember the Fantasy-40K connection back in the day that you could find warriors of chaos with plasma pistols, dark elves with power fist, and the story that Sigmar came from space and may have been a lost primarch... good times.

[@abcdodd]

OMG! That's PERFECT! I never heard that, but I am sold on the idea.

[@balkenkreuz2063]

@@abcdodd if you ever get the chance, read the background lore in the 6th ed WHFB rule book. It’s implicated subtly that Sigmar Heldenhammer crashed landed as a baby.

[@stephenhumphreys9149]

One of the old fantasy short story collections featured a chaos champion of khorne fighting his way across the wastes to become a Daemon Prince, and one thing he found during his journey was essentially a laser. Plus, in the old Realm of Chaos books, a chaos champion could be directly gifted items such as chainswords by their patron.

[@evanharrison4054]

Maybe I'm misremembering, but wasn't at some point, the world of classic Warhammer be implied to be a world inside the 40k universe, surrounded by a warp storm that essentially cut it off from the rest of the world?

[@stephenhumphreys9149]

@@evanharrison4054 Basically, yeah. The old Realm of Chaos books makes it pretty blatant, near enough the first page of Slaves to Darkness talks about how the 'Old Slann' (the Old Ones nowadays) travelled between worlds and set up gateways on each world they visited, then describes how they collapsed on the fantasy battle world creating links to warpspace. The text even ends describing how the Imperium of Man is also assailed, so it was clearly in the same universe in the lore at the time.

[@parkermaisterra8532]

NGL the idea of Chaos Cultist Genestealers sounds absolutely incredible. Like imagine an Aberrant who worships Khorne and got blessed- it’d be ridiculous

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

God the imperium would be fucked

[@TheGreatBlueBlob]

Game over man, game over!

[@101Mant]

Chaos was very random on the early editions, lots of charts. So you could have say a Patriarch possessed by a Daemon but you could roll a Bloodthirster or a Nurgling.

[@vladimirmihnev9702]

​@@101Mant basically pre demon Fulgrim or OG Angron.

[@13Lictor]

There are still chaos genestealer cults in the lore

[@bigbodge]

my favourite piece of old-warhammer trivia is where the whole idea of chaos came from. The story goes that basically, back in the day, designing and printing unique models was much more expensive, too early to justify at this early stage, so they needed a reason to include 2 near identical armies in the same box as enemies, hence we got space marines and chaos space marines (I think it actually might've been titans, but you get the idea), and the Horus heresy was written just to justify a cost saving

[@Titanic_Tuna]

If true, then it was smart and cost effective marketing.

[@vaiyt]

It explains why several loyalist legions have a straight up evil twin 😂

[@Rabbit-the-One]

​@@vaiyt Are you Alpharius?

[@Altulegio]

Make the marines malevolent act like 1st ed marines instead of just being boring evil

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Yeah that would be cooler

[@chaoticantifreeze]

​@jeffbogard8794they kill civilians for no real reason?

[@oskarpiskorek9945]

​@jeffbogard8794they have malevolent in their name what do you mean that they arent evik

[@bingusmingus2937]

@@chaoticantifreezeehhh kinda, it’s more like they view civilians as resources to be expended in war (letting a bunch of Orks rampage a refugee camp so they can have the Orks in one spot to blow them all up with artillery) still fucking evil tho

[@chaoticantifreeze]

@@bingusmingus2937 Why do Salamanders, Lamenters, and Imperial Fists even allow the Marines Malevolent to keep going? I feel like Vulkan would absolutely wreck their primarch if they had one.

[@abcdodd]

Hi. Complete Eldar simp stuck in the 80's and former GW employee here. I have a few notes on this video (as I happen to be going through the 1st edition book anyway) 1. Sisters of battle are in the Rogue Trader. Or rather Adepta Sororitas. Page 269 2. Space marines, if anything have gotten FAR more weird since "1980s commandos in sci fi powered armour" Now we have Space vampires with wings? 3. The Eldar were glorious; they were simply better, more expensive, etc. 4. The most important bit is how fair things were, because there was ONE wargear list, one Psionics list, etc. 5. Any and everyone could be in a chaos band, but there were no 'keywords'. there REALLY should be Chaos Everyone now. 6. Rogue Trader was not an RPG 7. ZOATS!!!! (Still in my Corsairs army) Some things you may have missed: a. Jokaero b. Flora and fauna (Gyrinx, Catachan Dev.....everything, etc) c. off board support weapons d. ROBOTS (you had to write a flowchart program for them. they got their own phase. e. Psicannons were tiny pistols with bullets coated in emperor excrement. f. Everyone had dreadnoughts. Dreadnoughts were what we might call Invictor warsuits' today. g. Mentor Legion.

[@SeanCrosser]

If only we still had this kind of cultured, erudite view on the Eldar nowadays.

[@johndavies4801]

Thank you! The mention of keywords struck me as bs too.

[@donflynn9030]

You really hit the nail on the head - I'd also add the following things missed - a. Vortex grenades b. plasma grenades c. conversion beamers d. power fields on dreadnoughts and robots e. didn't dreadnoughts have jump packs back in the day? f. The game board sized vehicles you could use as a map g. Flight packs! h. All the ork bionics

[@ArkadiBolschek]

h. Warp storms worked almost the other way around: the disturbances kept dangerous Warp creatures _away_ in the same way that birds will fly away from a tornado. The Eye of Terror was actually the safest place in the galaxy from malevolent Warp entitites, it was just impossible to use Warp travel inside it because of the storms.

[@sovietunion7643]

excuse me? what was that in letter e about emperor excrement? do i even want to know... jesus christ man old warhammer is one hell of a drug

[@billtodd2194]

Speaking of goofy Space Marines: Back in the era of Space Hulk 1st ed (I think just before WH40K 2nd ed) there was an article in Dragon magazine for a Space Hulk campaign in which your marines wore normal beaky armor and carried a boom box because their objective was to fight their way into a space hulk to literally dance in face of humanity's enemies and terminator armor is too bulky to dance properly.

[@dhwwiiexpert]

Man, that's sounds like it'd be some goofy fandom Chapter lore nowadays.

[@dddjedi]

Any idea what Dragon issue that was in?

[@Shoutatclouds]

April 1994 issue 204 of TSRs Dragon Magazine

[@billtodd2194]

@@Shoutatclouds Haha, omg, yes. I hadn't read that for 30 years, but found the archived pdf: The Space Marine Recreator Squad " In short, the Recreators enter Genestealer Space Hulks and dance, just to prove they can. A squad broadcasts to Space Marine chapters throughout the Imperium demonstrates its courageous triumphs over the enemy." "The Recreators' special armor, customized by the Imperium's Adeptus Mechanicus, gives the waist flexibility they need to perform their lumbering but strangely majestic dances."

[@NiCoNiCoNiCola]

We have Noise Marines now, why not give us Dance Marines?

[@ArkadiBolschek]

One important aspect of the early 40K lore that frequently gets overlooked: there wasn't an existential threat to the Imperium of Man. In the Rogue Trader book, Tyranids were just another race, not a locust swarm poised to devour the entire galaxy. Necrons, Tau and Dark Eldar weren't a thing. There were no Traitor Legions trying to destroy the Imperium from the Eye of Terror either (not until Adeptus Titanicus): when demon-like Warp entities got summoned into realspace, their first priority was to try and get _back_ to the Warp because they didn't like it here. Orks were mere barbarians, and the chief reason they were all over the galaxy was that the Imperium wasn't competent enough to keep them in check. IG commissars looked like the Gestapo, not like Napoleonic hussars, and space marines were basically Sardaukar. Everything about the lore made it clear that Imperial propaganda was bullshit, that the Imperium was its own worst enemy and that literally any other political system would have been more effective at protecting mankind from external threats. Of course, when it became clear that WH40K was evolving into a wargame focused on pitched battles between armies, other races had to be beefed up so they could compete with the Imperial Guard and the Space Marines on the tabletop. But taking that route meant validating the Imperium as the "defenders of mankind" because suddenly there _really_ were other factions that could swallow up the galaxy if the forces of the Imperium weren't there to stop them, and for me that weakened the central element of the lore. I enjoy current WH40K, but I do miss the time when the real reason the galaxy was "grim and dark" was not that there were ugly monsters out there, but that the people who were supposed to protect you from those monsters were in fact The Fucking Worst.

[@SurprisinglyDeep]

You make some really good points. One of the things I like most about 40k is some of the darkly humorous satirical lore stories about how many rich nobles/highborn in 40k are selfish psychopathic weirdos who spend way too much time plotting against each other, unintentionally messing things up for other people through their arrogant incompetence and/or doing dumb heinous $h1+ instead of properly doing their appointed jobs of being the royalty overseeing governments or just peacefully enjoying their lives of wealth and privilege. It's like the setting is making fun of itself. At first glance the setting makes it seem like it's implying that a human galactic empire run by the nobility might actually be a good idea. However the setting then ruthlessly parodies itself and skewers thr idea of the nobility ruling a galaxy by showing that that kind of government would only possibly work out okay if it was run by benign superhumans like the Emperor or one of the Loyalist Primarchs instead of just flawed normal human beings who additionally have messed up views about life due to their inherited wealth and privilege. (Some examples are Herman von Straub, Goge Vandire, Sepheris Secundus, how horribly inefficiently run Terra is, how many Planetary Governors are just selfish psychopathic obese oafs, Duke Severus XIII and the Severan Dominate, the Scintillian Fusiliers, the Ventrillian Nobles and all the lore from about what $h1++y people Lord Gerontius Helmawr and most of the other nobles of Necromunda are like as well as how terrrible Necromunda is in general.) Also I kind of wish there was like 2 lines of warhammer 40k lore like maybe "warhamme40k grimdark" for the modern day lore and like "Warhammwr 40k cartoony" or "warhammer 40k retro" for the more classic style lore.

[@alfredpotts6136]

I liked the old narrative battle generator in the back of the RT book, especially the one involving an administrative error where 2 identical forces are sent to a planet to fight shapeshifting aliens but end up having to slaughter each other instead!

[@SurprisinglyDeep]

@@alfredpotts6136 Why did they have to slaughter each other?

[@ArkadiBolschek]

@@SurprisinglyDeep It's not so much that they "had to" but that they each assumed that the _other_ contingent was the shapeshifting enemy. Because neither had been notified of the other's presence.

[@SurprisinglyDeep]

@@ArkadiBolschek Oh I see.

[@elephantseal1817]

Personally I think we need more books on inquisitor Obiwan Sherlock Cluseau, Imagine the adventures he’s been on.

[@throwback19841]

Does your squig bite? no SCHNARLGNASHCHEWRIPGARRGH I thought you said your squig does not bite? That is not my squig.

[@baronkarza2939]

@@throwback19841 me and my dad repeat that joke an awful lot

[@redeye4516]

Honestly, 38,000 years in the future and all those names are derived from the myths of old. It's basically like being named Gilgamesh or Hercules. Hell, we have kids now who were named Dovahkiin by their parents, why couldn't this dude's parents just really do him like that and name him after their favorite ancient movies?

[@Archon3960]

Make him team up with Ciaphas Cain and watch our favorite Commissar get baffled by the First Inquisitor's sheer weirdness. 😂

[@Archon3960]

@@zogwort1522 Oh, now I'm _very_ disappointed. ;/

[@antimuppet]

I would love to see Zoats allied with Tau, especially Kroot. A Zoat packing weapons normally found on a crisis suit would be awesome.

[@marasmusine]

A faction of mercenaries comprising of all the whacky aliens: Slann, zoats, kroot, ur-ghuls and swarms of angry ptera-squrrels.

[@heitorpedrodegodoi5646]

@@marasmusine Slaan are the old ones.

[@SurprisinglyDeep]

Considering the Tau's colony ships and scouting ships are travelling father then ever before the Tau are looking for any good possible colony worlds even in the remote ends of space, it's probably not long before the Tau stumble onto some remote worlds with small populations of Zoats on them...

[@SurprisinglyDeep]

​@@heitorpedrodegodoi5646 Originally in 40k they were the old ones but then they got retconned to just be a servant race of the Old Ones. Like in the modern day 40k continuity the Slann still exist, they just got rid of most of their technology and live simple lives on fringe worlds (or at least they did before the Great Rift was formed.)

[@fredrik241]

Basically the Guardians of the Galaxy faction!

[@TheMagnumDon]

I remember hearing how in Rogue Trader the Genestealers were actually a completely separate race to the Tyranids for a bit before Second Addition

[@Grevnor]

Yes, they were a parasitic race from the moon of Ymgarl, and the native "base" form had a leech-like head and a long tail. Eventually these "Ymgarl Genestealers" were retconned as an aberrant offshoot of the Genestealer genus.

[@generik7414]

​@@Grevnorin fact the leech ones were retconned into a *subtype* of ymgarl genestealers

[@leonardovegaolmedo5483]

Tyranids didn t exist as a faction back then.

[@CT68]

Yeah, both were just another type of alien monster the players might encounter, the way a D&D player might encounter a bug bear or a displacer beast.

[@LordVader1094]

​@@leonardovegaolmedo5483They did, just not as we know them now

[@MiniatureMasterClass]

"1st Edition Lore Was GLORIOUS" - fixed that for you.

[@AkosKovacs.Author.Musician]

Honestly, I still recommend Ian Watson's 40k book, because despite some of the gross stuff, they give you that sort of "First Time Experience" akin to watching Apocalypse Now, for the first time. You are descending into this demented world, full of horrors, following demented characters who can only partially comprehend the world around them, being warped by it, both mentally and physically. There's this quite existential, psychedelic horror atmosphere to them. Moreover, Watson made W40k WORK. Like think about it, at the time w40k was, as of yet, a shapeless mass of ideas snatched together from Judge Dredd, Starship Troopers, Elric Of Melnibone, Aliens, DnD, Dune, Lovecraft and probably more. Then, they gave that bag of clustefuck to a writer who drops Acid like it's gummy bear - and yet, it somehow worked. (P.S: I, for one, do wish that GW would bring back the 80's metal vibe, even if only in terms of aesthetics.)

[@sneakyking]

Good old biff

[@bucknasty69]

I agree. Modern day 40K is too serious. I miss the over the top 2000 AD vibe 40K used to have.

[@matthewsmith2979]

​@@bucknasty69same, I miss the satire

[@dajokahbaby1506]

@@matthewsmith2979Plus there’s a limit on how serious you can take 40K when everything looks like 40K

[@matthewsmith2979]

@@dajokahbaby1506 very true

[@Infinity_Coda]

You know, Horus Heresy takes up too much oxygen in the fandom and lore these days. Bring back focus on the Badab War and Age Of Apostasy. Return to tradition.

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

I do hope we get books on those events and the scouring

[@parkermaisterra8532]

I’m still waiting for a book series on the Badab War. Seriously BL need some books focusing on the massive span of time between the HH and “Modern” 40k. Sure we have The Beast Arises series but…I mean come on

[@maltheri9833]

​@@parkermaisterra8532The beast series was so random. Orcs got a random power boost nearly destroyed the Imperium and bam everything back to status quo. I hate them making huge events that don't change anything about the setting anyways

[@Infinity_Coda]

@@parkermaisterra8532 agreed, right now the timeline of the Imperium feels both too front loaded and too back loaded. Hell, I'd like a shorter series about the First War Of Armageddon. A lot of important figures in the current era were around for that.

[@Infinity_Coda]

@@livefromtheblacklibrary honestly, Vraks is another one for me. The FW campaign books fleshed that one out a lot and it would be cool for some fiction about it.

[@jcorpac]

A half-Eldar sounds hilarious when you think of how their parents would have viewed one another in the current setting.

[@boi7316]

Space Marines now: The emperor protects. Space Marines then: Hold on, I gotta rub the blood of the elderly onto my bolter so that I won't miss a shot and baby feces onto my visors so that I can see better.

[@oldeskul]

I miss the sheer lunacy of the early editions. It's like GW forgot that Warhammer is supposed to be fun. They need to embrace a bit of the silliness, sometimes let things be grimderp for the sake of being grimderp. What 40K needs is its own variant of Blood Bowl. Maybe make a Warhammer 40,000 pro-wrestling board game.

[@sovietunion7643]

FR. why did they have to take the comedic relief out of every faction but the orks. i like old fantasy lore being so silly (the changeling whoopie cushioning khorne with a nurgling is canon lore) and fantasy really mixed the darkness with the absolute absurdity of the setting quite well so i never felt it was completely serious.

[@tristanband4003]

@@sovietunion7643 Urist embodies pure Warhammer

[@ScooterinAB]

I came up with a lore idea for a 40k Blood Bowl years ago that I think fits will. A radical Inquisitor comes across a Dark Eldar fighting arena and thinks that's just fine. He works with the Dark Eldar to codify the rules, ultimately creating a game that looks suspiciously like space football. In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only FOOTBAAAAAAAALL!

[@Zelinkokitsune]

IN THE GRIM DARKNESS OF THE FORTY SECOND MILLENNIUM THERE IS ONLY SPORTS!!

[@tflwulf69]

I love how every faction in rogue trader got to use rhinos and landraiders because landraiders are fucking cool

[@MrMeltdown]

In the companion/compendium/white dwarfs harlequins could bring looted vehicles like orcs…. Except you had to role at the beginning of the turn to see if it broke down…. Literally a clown car… they were a circus sub faction of Eldar before the aspect warriors became a thing.

[@DRTisKING]

The Exodites were in Rogue Trader Eldar Codex. I'd like them back

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

YES PLS

[@mathewkelly9968]

Seconded

[@bravoromeo9060]

The goofy vibe and art style speak to my inner 80s kid, love it. In moderation it could offset the grimdark and bring more people into the lore. Caiphas Cain, ect.

[@howard5755]

Dude. I read some of the Caiphus Cain books. Man was so unlucky that he was lucky.

[@jacob5395]

The Grimdark is already going away though.

[@bravoromeo9060]

Hah, yeah man. Highly recommend all his stories - it gets even better. Keep the garbage California modernity out off 40k at all costs. Striking that gallows humor balance with the classic gut wrenching grimdark go authentically and naturally together. Remember that warhammer young adult bs run they tried? Brilliant marketing... ah hahah.

[@jacob5395]

@bravoromeo9060 No matter what way you cut the setting just isn't made for kids. I gotta read the books someday, either audible or rent a copy.

[@arfived4]

The grim, depressing, and utterly bleak hopelessness of Rogue Trader got to me as a teenager on an existential level - that I would fade before I was noticed, and replaced with newer, brighter lights, and that the future held nothing more than a greater grinding misery than the present, got under my skin in a way that body horror or gore of the later editions has never managed. The "grimdark" that came later has always felt somewhat like catnip for edgy teenage boys.

[@thewallofguns550]

Your forgot to mention some interesting stuff about the Orks, like the Khornate ork boys that were seen as teenargers in aphase and ork genestealer cults with severals arms. It's very important to remember about the genestealers that they were not Tyranids yet, they were their own race from the moons of Ymgarl, wich is interesting

[@donflynn9030]

You're talking about the ork stormboyz - they were not necessarily followers of Khorne, but you could also have 'stormboyz of khorne' in your army lists. There were also ork mutants and ork/genestealer hyrbid models (which were two different things)

[@tetraforceofepic]

Honestly I miss the level of detail and freedom of the old edition. The fact that you learn what certain peoples rations are like and you can have someone in your army pick up an ork gun just makes the world feel more lived in to me. Nowadays every faction has some rigid lore about how they wouldn’t even touch another’s weapons but it just makes each faction feel like it’s in its own universe completely separate from the others

[@torysaccount5753]

Tau 8ed codex has a whole page about their language and names. Tau 9ed codex is a disappointment. They had a high level of detail up until recently, but detail doesn't make money.

[@ElishaFollet]

Don't Orks salvage enemy weapons all the time?

[@CloseingStraw97]

yes in lore but how often do you see it on the tabletop?​ During the older editions the lore and gameplay seperation was non existent. So yeah a space marine or an ork could field an eldar shuriken rifle. If the the player could field the points. @@ElishaFollet

[@djspectrebolt8450]

@@ElishaFollet yea they love looting but they don't like the other factions weapons cuz almost every other faction's weapons are standardized

[@ScooterinAB]

Part of that came from (at least on the model side) the fact that they didn't have any. The company couldn't make unique things for every army, which is why everyone have bolters and Rhinos. But I think the other change is how toyetic 40k has gotten over the years. Everyone started getting their own wargear in 3rd editon, but this has gone absolutely nuts in recent editions. Entire units existed because their bolter was different from every other bolter, and that happened because GW needed more things to sell. I'm doing a back-conversion to 2nd edition, and it's so refreshing to write "X is just a power axe," or "this thing is a bolter."

[@walkerineternity2334]

Don't forget there was some really cool stuff like vampires being warp creatures and lots of flora and fauna for death worlds. I miss these aspects of 40K.

[@mikey17091986]

Nercron raiders came out 2nd ed. Scarabs could eat armour on your tanks and there was a chance your weapons would malfunction near any necrons

[@lucasstr5653]

Probably tied to the Void Dragon if I had to guess 😅

[@MrJerichoPumpkin]

also the first full codex was 3rd edition

[@davidbowles7281]

@@lucasstr5653 Void Dragon didn't exist. It was just Necrons being Necrons.

[@rrwholloway]

Nope, Necrons were definitely 3rd edition.

[@mikey17091986]

​@@rrwholloway they definitely are 2nd ed. I had the white dwarf where you got a free warrior when they came out. If you Google necron raiders 2nd ed you will see some in 2nd ed blisters etc

[@gufbrindleback]

The recipe for old 40k was: 1 part space. 1 part fantasy. 1 part post apocalypse, like Road Warrior. Add a dash of satire. Add a teaspoon of spoof. Bake around a game table with lots of laughs. Serve garnished with mohawks and bright colors. For dessert, be - perhaps - surprised it takes off with the fans and needs years of development to become an entirely different dish.

[@danioshea]

The tone of incredulity in this video surprises me. I mean, even today, it's a game with Space Knights, the Space Empire, Space Elves, Space Undead, Space Orks, and, yes, Space Dwarves (a race of short, doughty miners with very Nordic naming conventions? Still dwarves).

[@KwadDamyj]

Can I get a rock and stone?

[@achimdemus-holzhaeuser1233]

@@KwadDamyj I don't know ? Can you ? I only have +cat-tallow biscuits+

[@UziIdiot]

I don't think he realises most retro british scifi was sort of silly

[@criminal7592]

ROCK AND STONE

[@demilung]

Yeah, things are very much the same if you oversimplify and disregard everything that sets them apart.

[@nicofolkersma2535]

Not only did everyone get bolters, they also could get shuriken rifles, even space marines. And there were humans that painted themselves green and joined an ork warband. And the orks were happy to see them.

[@henrychurch6062]

Remember the good old days when the Head Librarian of the Ultramarines was a Half Eldar Space Marine Psyker?

[@VileScarMind]

Equipment in RT was limited by tech level not race. So a fast play style was not limited to eldar Squats on powerboards and marines on jet bikes were insane. You need to read RT alongside the compendium and companion to really understand it.

[@Fourger14]

"Beastmen" as sanctioned abhumans fighting for the Imperium 100% needs to come back.

[@blazesalamancer8767]

Fucking yes, please! Necromunda and other cameos aren't enough, I need my mutie legion back! Muties for da emprah!

[@odinlindeberg4624]

Unfortunately the 8th edition rulebook basically says that's not going to happen. The Fellgor killteam needs to be retconned, though.

[@krakenattacken8230]

yes, inquisitor, this one right here

[@andywilson5828]

Totally agree

[@coolmanbritt]

They aren’t a humans so they can’t be part of the imperial army?

[@SMAXZO]

Space Marine senior: You wanna join the Space Marines? YOU GOTTA EAT DA POO POO!

[@ArkadiBolschek]

Oh, and one thing: nowadays we know it as "the Rogue Trader era", but back then nobody called it Rogue Trader. It was simply Warhammer 40.000.

[@SimonProctor]

So as someone who got Rogue Trader at its release event can I just say you did a great job. I do feel sometimes some of the rough and ready feel of early 40k has been lost over the years. But it's still fun.

[@johndavies4801]

Not sure i agree. Tired returning to 40k in covid. Found the rules bland, the lore even more muddled and the prices...

[@JoeJohnston-taskboy]

W40K came out of the very excellent lefty artistic reaction to Thatcherism. Judge Dredd, the RPG paranoia, many, many works of scifi were warning us against top-down conformity and the rising plutocratic class. The snark of these works remains inspirational to this day.

[@parz176]

3:35 CURSE YOU IAN WATSON

[@zippolighter4903]

Definitely a dark chapter in 40k

[@xzenitramx666]

Ian watson. The follower of slaanesh.

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

HE WILL BE VINDICATED

[@xzenitramx666]

@@livefromtheblacklibrary reddit already did it, about how sexy the new tyranid models look like for them.

[@nobleman9393]

Elaborate and very detailed desciptions of feats, Sex with Shapeshifter, being horny for Genestealers, poop eating ceremonies, killing cats, casually sneaking into the Imperial Palace and being initially ok with turning all of Humanity into a Hive-Mind.

[@mattwcook9127]

I love the Heavy Metal/Ralph Bakshi era of Sci Fi, and as much as I love what Warhammer is today (for the most part), I do wish that more was being made in that style

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

SAME

[@bingusmingus2937]

God DAMN those OG marines look so cool. Corvus Pattern is my favorite armor in the series so it’s great seeing the beaks

[@CocoHutzpah]

You missed mutants. They got their own section in the original rulebook. You can make some fun things with those tables.

[@petra4385]

The wackiest edition. Basically a marine from starcraft making a sci fi setting while high

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

I do miss some wackier elements ngl

[@jamesfreeman3617]

Well starcraft marines are based off space marines

[@bonusbone5118]

I really like the og space marine design the visors are so cool and I've always liked the little horus heresy shoulder balls

[@Masonicon]

Here's how I make Chaos Androids coexist with Necrons in my Warhammer 40k universe: making former Men of Iron that used as physical bodies for warp entities As well making both Rainbow Warriors and Valedictors 2nd and 11th legions respectively

[@viorp5267]

4:04 In early warhammer you really saw it was supposed to be a post-post-post apocalypse. Space Marines did actually degenerate from the heresy and while they were monstrus and grimdark they were the best what humanity had. They are portrayed way too heroically now. 6:33 You say it's silly I say they really tried to sell the post-apocalypse vibe. A lot of early 40k lore weirdly echos stuff from African wars. The sisters of battle and why van Dyke created them clearly mimic African Presidentators with their units of harem bodyguards where they have hundrets if armed wife bodyguards. Or the names of Afrian warlords often being silly like General Buttnaked or Rambo Schwarzengger Terminator. Or my favorite duo: General Mosquito and General Mosquito Spray

[@SurprisinglyDeep]

6:33 The Eldar had harem armies?

[@sovietunion7643]

i knew about general butt naked but was there really a guy who nickamed himself Rambo Schwarzengger Terminator?

[@volks2605]

Rouge trader is really something. I wish 40k still had some of these goofy things still in current setting like the genestealer limos it made 40k feel a little more like a setting that was lived in.

[@krinkrin5982]

I love the feel of old editions, where they are much closer to playing an rpg with a squad of guys, rather than a single character. The old scenarios even used to include a game master that would have secret knowledge and spring surprises on the players, or play a third faction interfering with whatever the game objective was.

[@henryfleischer404]

That's pretty much a description of how me and my family play it, but we use rules based off of Kill Team, with minor changes.

[@CyberController-]

"What's wrong with that guy?" "He stared too long into a 1st edition codex" "FEMALE SPACE MARINES, CHAOS ELDAR EXIST, LEMAN RUSS WAS JUST A NORMAL GUY!" "Nobody's ever been able to decipher the rambling"

[@generik7414]

Hot take, but i sorta like the technobarbarian knuckledragger style the old sm had more than modern sm Also, i think you raise a good point with the fast paced playstyle eldar have, because its made me realize that part of the dominance of space marines in general games until now, because sm can play basically any way a player could want.

[@wolf40k]

The Necrons were actually introduced towards the end of second edition, just they just didn't get a full army treatment until 3rd

[@squatchhammer7215]

Yep and Tau was 3rd edition not 4th. Hell, I remember seeing a few boxes of tau being sold, surprisingly, in the Wizards of the Coast store.

[@sethleoric2598]

I feel like you can really see meat of where Warhammer came from when you see theae old editions, other than being more like it's Fantasy counterpart but... in space, you can also see that the people writing it were the same people who worked in 2000 AD.

[@ITheOneEyedKing]

Yeah more Warhammer to listen to while working ❤

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

MY JOB HERE IS DONE

[@cjanquart]

All the inside jokes and the Rainbow Warriors (now Deathstrike)

[@FreshCoatKustoms]

Dude, Squats are SO much cooler than LoV. A trike, 2 dwarves, a huge barrel of beer with a heavy machine gun mounted on it... SO SO much better than what we have now.

[@davidcauley9400]

Agreed. The more GW move away from the oldschool, the more generic scifi it gets.

[@Tokumastu1]

I do wish GW would bring back some of the concepts from 1st & 2nd edition. There's a lot of charm in those editions that has been lost throughout the years.

[@sovietunion7643]

diplomatic orks would have been cool. have roving ork traders or mercenary groups looking for a good fight (and some money for drinking), really make the orks feel closer to a real "chaotic neutral" faction that is really just down with anything that is fun and violent, or work that allows them to buy things that bring fun and violence.

[@Nobody32990]

Erda who? Mother of what? Take at least half of what you are taking mate.

[@jamesfreeman3617]

If you haven't been keeping up with the retcons erda was a perpetual who helped make the primarchs it was her that yeeted them. She later got killed by fucking erebus after beating 4 greater demons at once

[@johnhickman8391]

The medieval fantasy look mixed with guns is what got me into the games. I liked the old rogue trader look an theme. I like the lore etc now as well, but it doesnt have the same feel to it.

[@christopheraaron1255]

4:31 there were no legions back then is why. The Heresy became the big thing after the Realm of Chaos books came out.

[@gawkthimm6030]

my favorite facts about 1st edition is the fact that female space marines was canon but was eventually discontinued only because nobody bought any of the models. and the character Illiyan Nastase a half-Eldar, half-Human Imperial Astropath, who became Chief Librarian of the Ultramarines..

[@JGrimm52]

I never liked how wh40k took a path of hostility between man and the space elves instead of sticking with the relationship of generally being allies against the Dark in WH Fantasy

[@TJ-el5tm]

There’s a reason Ian Watson isn’t used as an author anymore, dude put in WAY to many of his personal kinks

[@weeblordiii518]

I could see chaos eldar gods other than Slan. Like a bunch of angry elders boys following Korne and getting their souls protected.

[@thehowlingjoker]

They should create a spin-off series set in the whacky 1st edition universe, comics or something. I'd buy that stuff.

[@KnjazNazrath]

tbh I reckon it'd end up swampin' the newer stuff if they did in a Runescape style scenario so they're afraid to do it.

[@404Yon]

While the modern setting obviously has a lot more content and development, something about the original version's galaxy feels more alive I guess? As in it feels like the galaxy has a lot more weird stuff going on in it potential for bizzare minor factions showing up, there is a lot more unknown factors going on. I kind of wish the setting had more stuff like that, scale all of the big players back in scope a little bit to open gaps of space that no factions have really looked into in depth yet. I know some examples exist but I'd like to see more minor xeno's empires and breakaway human factions that the imperium hasn't gotten around to deal with for several centuries or even more remnants of pre imperium golden age human civilization. I think stuff like this helps sell that this is a vast galaxy mostly filled with rotten empires that struggling to hold on to what they claim, the Tau in concept are basically supposed to show that new civilizations are growing in the cracks but I think they should be far from the only one. On another note, I really do not like what they have done with the Tyrannids, mostly at a plot and scale level, I have no issue with their concept or designs. The old Galaxy based version avoids the two main issues that I have with the tyrannids, they have no character and there is no real insight into how the hive mind actually thinks. Nerf the hive mind's ability to just create any lifeform the plot demands to make them more dangerous to nesscitate them capturing and enslaving more races to the hive mind like the Zoats to cover weaknesses they currently have. This gives them a reason to not just eat everything because some can be more valuable alive. This only expands the kind of creepy and gross alien horror the tyrranids are supposed to have while allowing them to expand or even "communicate" through other races they have turned into flesh puppets. My second issue with the new tyrannids is the overwhelming extra galactic force they present, while this is grimdark it basically means the most likely outcome is that everyone will be overwhelmed eventually, meaning that in the long term nothing that happens really matters, at least scale them back to coming from only one direction. This also limits the potential of other extra galactic entities possibly showing up, stripping more mystery from the setting. I am personally a fan of the idea that a colony could have been sent outside of the galaxy before the collapse and they (or their AI successors) could possibly return and have diverged so far in the past 20000 years as to be virtually unrecognizeable as humans the imperium.

[@KnjazNazrath]

Xenomorph vs The Red Weed vs Undead Jetwashers is the likely endgame now. I knew there was a reason I always preferred Necromunda.

[@ryancrazyrhino8976]

Imma be brutally honest. I kinda prefer some of this older lore, it just strikes me as more fun and interesting. I prefer older Squats I like their aesthetic and them just being Dwarfs in space. I'm not the biggest fan of the sleek Votann aesthetic I honestly thought they were Tau auxiliaries when they were first shown. I like the older Eldar Lore were they are much more competent and mystic and I like the idea of Chaos Genestealers because what if a Genestealer eats a chaos mutant or infects a Chaos Cult first. I honestly think this stuff has a place in modern 40k. Now imma not be blind and say its all good like the Poop eating or the silly Inquisitior or the Zoats but there are some concepts I just prefer over the modern setting. Also Beakie armour with visors will always look badass. I wouldn't mind seeing Marines who are more thuggish alongside the more warrior monk style Marines.

[@SurprisinglyDeep]

The Marines Malevolent and Carcharadons are kind of thuggish.

[@Scruffynerfherder10]

Ian Watson was insane with a lot of his stories, I still remember the inquisitor story covered by Alfabusa

[@christopheraaron1255]

1:09 nah, RT was first ed.

[@cyber4053]

That’s… Literally what he said…

[@princeofcupspoc9073]

Most people don't know the environment when Rick and the guys hacked Rogue Trader together. The Slaanesh beasts are the Fendahline from the Doctor Who episode Image of the Fendahl. The Nurgle beast is the monster from the old film The Creeping Terror. Traders, pirates, muties are from various Warrior/2000AD comics like Judge Dredd. Chaos demons and lore are from various Michael Moorcock books such as Elric, Hawkmoon, etc. Space Marines, psi marines, and Tyranids are from Heinlein's Starship Troopers (nothing to do with the film of the same name). Genestealers are from the film Alien.... I'll edit if I remember any more.

[@doghou5e]

Speaking as a Long Fang I think you've blended some first and second edition lore together here. Stuff like the Age of Apostasy, the Sisters of Battle as we know them and Abaddon weren't first edition. Rogue trader can best be defined by the rulebook, Chapter Approved, the White Dwarf Compendium and two Realm of Chaos books maybe with some Warhammer Siege thrown in. Towards the end of the edition we started to see more on the Heresy but that was mostly built upon via Adeptus Titanicus, then Space Marine which focused on the Scouring then the Realm of Chaos books building further on this. I think RT is probably best divided into early, mid and late edition as a subject matter because unlike later editions it substantially evolved within the edition the closer it got to second edition via White Dwarf unlike all editions that were to follow. Stuff like the Badab War though wasn't as huge as people seem to think, it's more like one of those remember berry moments that people seem to think it was a bigger deal than it was probably due to later exposure of the Forgeworld books.

[@TwojaStaraIFrytki]

Hey Valrak, you're gonna love 3:43 xD

[@boba3597]

I think I prefer the wacky 40k over grimdark. I loved getting into 40k but I'm a little bit tired of the grim dark setting.

[@terraneaux]

I'd argue that the shift wasn't 3e, it was the 2e Chaos Codex; that was where it went fully grimdark. Also Necrons were introduced at the end of 2e, before the 3e edition was published.

[@chunkymonkey55555]

I actually stopped playing when second edition came out. I likes the old style armour and Lore. I used to play with my neighbours in a garage using nothing but rogue trader and it was all we needed. in the last year or so I started watching Utube vids about 40k and read a few of the books. I dunno if I like the direction of how some of the content has gone personally. It was a lot more dependant on your imagination back then, and in my opinion that was a good thing.

[@sovietunion7643]

i agree, old fantasy was like that too and now with everything more written down (and fantasy burned to the ground with AOS) it all feels less silly and loose. even when fantasy got more lore it still felt very much an open world that you could explore or slightly change the dynamics of (you want a morally good tomb king? go crazy, for instance), 40k lore is really so set in stone (and honestly stagnant) that you don't get that magic anymore

[@KaptajnCongoboy]

I played a while into 2nd edition and have followed the lore since then. But the charm of universe is kind of gone. 40k should not be Taken Seriously. Gradually, some fans who did not get the satire started Taking it Seriously and eventually GW itself also started Taking It Seriously. And now it is just Grimdork. Static, unimaginative and divorced from the original concepts, all at one time :(

[@chunkymonkey55555]

@@KaptajnCongoboy it is an interesting point you make

[@chunkymonkey55555]

@@sovietunion7643 Might have to agree, Putin? Is that you? :)

[@euansmith3699]

12:17 Paul Bonner's artwork is just wonderful. Full of action and character.

[@mahoganydoughnut6082]

Bro you didnt even mention the land trains.

[@KobKobold]

3:34 "...By Ian Watson" Well that explains it

[@pauliusthemad3498]

So, minor nit pick, but realm of chaos books were released in rogue trader (1st edition) and included death guard, thousands sons, world eaters and emperor's children's legions as armies you could run.

[@6xXx_Jack_xXx9]

8:43 that eldar on the top right is cheeked up, got me acting unwise.

[@mathiasbartl903]

Hail Primarch Ian Watson of the Poop Legion!

[@Ultimateprototype13]

Eating excremental garbage sounds like something the Death Guard would do lol

[@ironclad4451]

2cnd and 3rd edition art goes so hard. The heavy metal album look.

[@akumaking1]

The Sensei/Star Children should return

[@SeanCrosser]

God I remembered being excited with the Necrons being introduced...

[@pvtspartan]

Guillimam made Half Elf Ultramarines

[@takjel1585]

Honestly I WANTto see Slaaneshi Dark Eldar. Cause let's be honest they're already pretty much that and there's only one step for them to embrace fully the Prince's embrace

[@quelltech]

How would that even work? If you're an Eldar and you catch Slaanesh's attention, you're getting nommed on the spot.

[@tdlainc.4737]

Tau were introduced in 3rd edition, they were my first army for 3rd edition. (Besides the 3rd edition starter set which had SM and DE)

[@MrJerichoPumpkin]

came here to point out the same

[@zooeyglass7643]

I want to see marines eating poop again.

[@geoffreyjames5556]

OMG someone has gone back to the original Rogue Trader source book, still one of my favorite purchases. I even remember seeing FEMALE space marine models, Ogryns and Ratling snipers.

[@PhthaloGreenskin]

7:30, ah I see you are a man of culture fellow Gav Thorpe hater.

[@paytonkraft7564]

Honestly, as someone who hasn't gotten involved in the tabletop but LIVES for the setting, First ed has its pros and cons.

[@Nyghtking]

I remember hearing that in one of the old books you could equip non-orks with ork gear, it was just worse if a non-ork was using it.

[@kayvaanmcsharrowkyn6901]

I HAVE FOND MEMORIES OF THOSE EARLY DAYS.... GOOD JOB ON THIS VIDEO MY FRIEND, YOU BROUGHT OUT SOME NOSTALGIC FEELINGS . AND THE RALPH BAKSHI COMMENT!!!??? IM SOO HAPPY YOU KNOW OF HIM!! YOU ARE TRULY WELL ROUNDED BROTHER!! GOOD INFLUENCES 😂😂

[@tinyantman6224]

for asmuch I love the current setting, part of me still wishes that modern 40k could be this ridiculous and silly

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

YEAH LOL, though they would probably get less narrative mileage

[@AlienSliker]

just came here from a dread anon vid. didnt know you were somehow connected. i recognize your character for a pretty long time already and dread anon just made me subscribe by 2 or so videos, hes godlike

[@tarnocdoino3857]

‘96 was my first contact. It was a crazy year being between that era and the new.

[@XenoTechnian]

Fun fact! Illyan Natase has actually been adapted into the modern setting, as a Farseer who's advising Guilliman as part of the whole imperium-craftworld pseudo-alliance

[@Bobyoudontneeemyname]

Rogue trader was really pretty awesome, the whole game was more about telling ypur own stories and a diy attitudes, also squats were the best

[@qwopiretyu]

Rogue Trader lore is like if you taught an A.I. to speculate on the space-faring future of D&D races in FATALs writing style

[@Diego-py3ts]

Ah yes the extremely wacky period of warhammer

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Goofhammer

[@clnetrooper]

Didn't talked about how orks reproduced in old lore. Sad, it's a beautiful reading and i love it.

[@paulgibbon5991]

Being a fan during the 2e days was a real trip. Year by year, you could see the setting taking shape and see the steady emergence of the books that would define the lore and the factions even today. And compared to a lot of later editions, the 2e Codexes were dense with content--the Chaos one got you all the familiar Chaos stuff, but also army lists for Renegades / Cultists, Daemon Worlds and Red Corsairs. Eldar gave you the Exodites. The stripped-down 3e ones were a real disappointment by comparison.