Living with a heat pump in 2024

[@Lawrence7of9]

Hi Tom, thanks for your videos & enthusiasm, I’m sure there are plenty more of us who also appreciate you. My ASHP (Octopus £2.5k) keeps our 4bed semi very comfortable, endless hot water 24/7. Winter months we are paying 50-70% what the gas/electric bills were previously. But on shoulder seasons it plummets, any solar (Summer) & it’s free, or very cheap with solar battery using overnight 7p KW instead of 24p (Octopus Intelligent go tariff, excellent). The dog got me up in the early hours but though 0 degrees outside I was comfortable in undies, even at open back door. Because house is so warm generally, maybe even too warm at night. Our double glazing is over 20years old, ok but could be better. We are a radiator short in kitchen/diner (Octopus survey) but any cooking activity & it’s too warm. I have adjusted Daikon HP settings, curve & temp increase for colder weather, as Summer settings not keeping house as warm in sustained minus temperatures. Our house is far from a perfect ASHP dwelling, but it’s still way better than with gas. I didn’t think at first we were suitable (unconsciously believed FUD) but it’s been great. Like you, I was happy to pay same bills but exchange poisonous/explosive gas hazards for non-carbon healthier alternative. 1st principles thinking, adding solar/battery just improves in ways you cannot with fuel options. And grid continues to get greener/renewable each year, phasing out fossils it will get cheaper too. Pity our electric prices still tied to gas/oil. It will inevitably change, and get better!

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Lawrence, sorry for the slow reply to this, thanks for sharing your story and for your encouragement! Lots in there that I resonate with! Well done for taking the step! Isn't it brill to not burn stuff to keep warm!!! All the best Tom

[@iancrowson2988]

Hi Tom Thanks for that, very interesting. We had heat pump installed in October 24 and suspect our figures wont be far off yours. We changed from a Tracker tariff to Cosy. Our electricity costs are slightly lower averaging out at around 14 pence as we had 10kw of batteries installed so we find charging during the Cosy periods just about covers our needs although we could have done with slightly more battery capacity. We also had solar installed which I think will pay us back as the lights get lighter. We have a 7kw pump, ors is a 1960s 4 bed semi and we live further South near Cambridge.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Ian, great to hear your experience, and sounds like you will have a really low cost system as we get into the spring, 14p per kWh is brill! Our neighbour who installed batteries and solar alongside a heat pump and EV charger is using Intelligent Octopus Flux and bills are very low indeed! Could be something to look into Tom

[@iancrowson2988]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle thanks Tom, I have Enphase which are just compatable with intel flux but looking at prices I think with current winter use IAm best on Cosy but will think about changing around April

[@metalhead2550]

Happy New Year Tom! I appreciate how data filled your videos are :) I have a question, what flow temperature are you running in your property? A bit of feedback, your talk to camera shot could do with some work to avoid it looking like the lense is oily with harsh exposure, the rest of the video was not affected by this, you may need to update the camera you use, im not sure though.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hello metalhead - and to you! We use a weather compensation curve as detailed here - energy-stats.uk/vaillant-arotherm-weather-curve-information/ we are on the 0.65 curve. So at 0° outside, flow temperature is about 40°C thanks for the feedback on camera, I am using an oldish iphone, that had a screen replacement recently that seems to have messed up the front camera quality, will use rear camera in future! Tom

[@willeisinga2089]

Hello Tom. I have no Gas since 2012. HT Heatpump Inductioncooking Solar Panels. I have Kitchen Boiler 125 euro and bathroom boiler 175. Hornbach DIY. Heating and warm water separated. I use 5000 kWh a year. And produce 5000 kWh a year. Energybill zero for 13 years now. Works better than Gas. I let a House same System. Rooftop Solar Inductioncooking Heatpump LG Therma V. Cost 3575. Subsidie was 3075. Google Aircoplaza Zwolle for prices in Nederland. Energybill in 2012 was 3000 a year. So with 2 houses No Gas saves me 6000 euro a year. Thats a Chunk of money every year. Thank you for this video.❤👍🙂🌹

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Thanks Wille - that is great to hear

[@willeisinga2089]

@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle Hi Tom. I invited People to see how its done and how it works and the Energybill before and after. Everything. I show them the data from the grid. And when they left I overheard them say. I dont believe him.😅😅😅 So I stopped. Thats why I thank you for your videos.❤️❤️❤️ And Breaking News. 110.000 heatpumps installed in Nederland last quarter. 👍👍👍🙂🌹

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

@@willeisinga2089 Wow - that is an amazing figure, we had around 50,000 in the whole of 2024!

[@willeisinga2089]

@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle 50.000 what??? Can you explain 50.000. thank you.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

@@willeisinga2089 50,000 heat pumps in 2024 - datadashboard.mcscertified.com/InstallationInsights

[@JanHeisterberg-Andersen]

Your video clearly explains the operating economy of your heat pump. However, quite obviously, there is no financial insentive to change a working system - there are no savings to offset the price of a new heat pump. In the spirit of “full disclosure”, I suggest a video on the alternatives: replacement of an old gas system versus a new heat pump. Maybe the business case requires assumptions on how prices may develop to break even ? Maybe other external factors, such as closure of gas for heating, play a role ?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Thanks Jan - some interesting questions there, I have done a few videos about finances etc, including this one - kzbin.info/www/bejne/norGiGlrhN9mp6s. Ultimately, we can't view heat pumps just as a financial investment, but potentially a life style choice to emit less, increase comfort, reduce reliance on dodgy fossil fuel states, as well as offering some savings. Thanks Tom

[@JanHeisterberg-Andersen]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle It will be quite interesting to see and compare UK and EU. The EU will lead initiaties to reduce energy consumption for all buildings. Most likely through a combination of tarifs to increase price of unwanted fuels and perhaps subsidies to support desired changes. All country-decided. Without a financial incentive, the transition from gas for heating will be slow and painfull. Yes, leaders may out og the goodness of their hearts change, but most others .....

[@timtam6442]

We need not pretend that running a HSP is cheap, it’s not. I spend a fortune in winter on electricity(£336 last bill and I’m with Octopus Intelligent Go). However, my 5 bed farmhouse in North Yorkshire is warm 24/7 and have we endless hot water. Before my HSP was installed, I paid a fortune on heating oil, but the house was only warm for 6 hours a day. Summer bills are about £100 per month and I get about £30 pm on the sell back for 6 months of the year. Overall I’m very happy. Worth mentioning I run a 20k miles per year EV on that electricity usage.

[@Lewis_Standing]

Rather than the heat pump being expensive to run, your house is expensive to heat. You'll need to internally insulate the walls with a breathable insulation like wood fibre or cork for example if you want to reduce the heat loss.

[@timtam6442]

@ is my EWI not acceptable?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Timtam - wonder if you could be on a better Octopus tariff? Although you would have a low overnight tariff, if you are heating 24-7, you may have a cheaper day tariff on Cosy or other. May help bring costs down?

[@timtam6442]

@ Thanks for the advice. I averaged 16p per kW over past 12 months, which includes an EV at 20k mile per year and excludes FIT at 15p. I’m not sure Cody beats that but I’ll deffo have a look.

[@ipedros7]

Great run of the 2024 year. Given that with a Gas boiler people don't generally run it as they do with a heat pump, simply because with a GB you can turn it off at no significant efficiency penalty, whereas with a HP there is so people run it more or less all the time. You alluded to this that in the past you had discussions/arguments on whether to turn the heating on when you were with the GB. So, would've been nice to have also included the graphs your previous profile monthly usage and cost, at 2024 prices.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

hello - yes that is a good idea, unfortunately I do not have the data for the last year on a gas boiler, we changed energy suppliers mid way through, I may be able to pull out bills for that year if I tried hard, which I may do at some point in the future. I guess the point about turning a gas boiler on and off vs keeping a heat pump running - ultimately the two ways of doing things will use a similar amount of heat to get to comfortable temperatures for the times people want it. I have been meaning to do a video about this for a while!

[@ipedros7]

​@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle would be great for future. When I change tariff, I have to refer to the PDF bills. A minor pain unless you're doing GB comparisons, in which case Id probably put an hour and extract the data to excel and keep it going on an ongoing basis and make life easier :) I think the main point is if we're going to be absent, the gas boiler would most likely be turned off. Its quick to bring the home back to temperature when needed. Thus minimizing losses. Though yes, you'd be generally more comfortable with a HP. It might stay on simply because it takes time to bring home back to temperature. I often hear its preferable to take those losses. Here is the biggest part of 'saving' I was alluding to. A couple of pounds a day soon mounts up over 3 or 4 months. Enjoy your content. All the best.

[@kevinscott2809]

Hi Tom. Do you run a legionnela cycle on your heat pump and if so how often?

[@Cyberbobxxxx]

You have to use the 3Kw ELECTRIC HEATER every week to kill the bugs as the heat pump won’t go that hot. Needs 65c for a couple of hours a week. Remember to factor that into your savings!!

[@chriskeay9596]

@@Cyberbobxxxx the valiant ashp can reach 70c so it does a legionella cycle without difficulty and no back up, so doesn’t need an immersion heater to do this.

[@indymind]

My heatpump runs a legionella cycle weekly. The heat pump factors that in. I have R32 refrigerant which does reach around 58 degrees before the immersion cuts in. Legionella only needs 60 degrees for 3 minutes. The immersion is only heating the last 2 degrees which is costing around 15p a week.

[@edwardpickering9006]

​@Cyberbobxxxx No it doesn't. As long as the water is not stagnant (I.e. tank being replenished regularly) then it doesn't matter what temperature the water is at.

[@BenIsInSweden]

@@Cyberbobxxxx No, you don't 😂 My hot water cylinder has a 1.8kW immersion heater, not a 3kW one, and that's sufficient to top up temperatures above 55C if needed. I usually set my cylinder to 52C, which is above the Swedish regulation minimum of 50C for heat pump systems. While 52C takes longer to kill Legionella compared to higher temperatures, I could use an anti-legionella cycle (ALC) to heat it to 60°C+ with the immersion if needed. A 3kW heater is unnecessary for this!

[@robinbennett5994]

Thanks for the comparisons for the CO2 savings. Given the price of EVs, a heat pump seems to be a cheaper way to reduce carbon.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Robin, yes I think that could be true, although it would depend on expected mileage and current heat loss of your home. A simple rule of thumb would be every kWh of gas you use has similar emissions to every mile you drive in an average fossil fuel vehicle ~200g each. So if you drive 20,000 miles a year, that would be a bigger priority for switching to an EV than a home that used 8000 kWh of gas. We are looking at a second hand EV at the moment, that is much more reasonable price than a new car. Tom

[@richardlewis5316]

I was intrigued by the graph showing the usage of electricity all year. Am I right to assume that the heat pump is running all the time all the year yet for 5-6 months between about May and October all its doing is supplying hot water. As you surely have a dishwasher and use an electric shower why have the heat pump on at all?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

We don’t have an electric shower, so the heat pump heats a tank for all hot water to taps for hand washing, washing up, showers, or baths. Do you not use a hot tap in the summer?

[@richardlewis5316]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle Yes - I have a combi which costs about 5 pence a day for my shower and morning shave!! But the main benefit of a combi over a heat pump is that if the evening in autumn is cold I can heat the house in an hour. Heating a tank of hot water goes back to the 'back boiler' days in the 1950s!! Such a waste of money keeping it hot even when well insulated.

[@AndyKennedy]

Always interesting to see how others do on agile, recently it's not been so good so we've been averaging 17/18pkwh so thinking of jumping to cosy. Especially since the agile arranging charge is going up from 55p to the 70p cap on Feb 16th which is what's been putting me off going to cosy anyway

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Would be great to hear what you decide to do, with the variation in the last month or so, I have felt a bit more comfortable on cosy. When the wind blows, I feel like I have made a mistake, this week... I back my own decision again!

[@AndyKennedy]

@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle Jumped to Cosy on 2nd Jan and thank god we did. Saving at few quid everyday currently over agile. Have adjusted the heat pump to overheat the home during the 2 low periods during the day and hot water top up at the 10 til midnight drop

[@jezzaandrews1940]

Hi Tom, It's the cynic back again😀. I like your videos coz you are up front in the reason you have a heat pump. You've got it to save on the Co2 and Nox emissions. Which you have considerably. Any financial savings seem like a bonus to you👍 I always have problems with these backwards calculations and the 85/90% efficiency of boilers etc. Your energy usage 14791 Kwh in one of the warmest years on record, have I got this wrong? But it seems your usage has gone up by nearly 3000Kwh over the year you compared with in 2020 with the gas boiler. Most people have tried to cut there energy usage, I've cut mine by at least 15% but yours has gone up considerably. The heat pump is using less energy than a gas boiler, but it seems that you now need the kWh output of the average large detached 4 bedroomed property for your heating and hot water. Shouldn't you work the prices out on the known fig of 12000kwh for the gas boiler used in 2020 which was a colder year, and is also the average use of a 3 bedroomed property. because you wouldn't of used 15780 Kwh of gas! Because that would be approx a 30% rise in your energy usage!

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Jezza - I guess this is the wonder of a heat pump and its efficiency. Although we delivered more heat, we used less energy. Ie ~12,000kWh gas to ~4200kWh of electricity. The total energy we delivered may have increased but ~10,000 kWh of this energy was for ‘free’ from the air. This means we have decreased our energy consumption by 2/3rds, the extra we have used is recycled heat locally as it leaks from our home. If our target is reducing energy consumption then heat pumps would be a major step. I hope this makes sense? Tom

[@jezzaandrews1940]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle thanks for the reply👍I get that the heat pump produces more energy than it consumes. Im with you on the technology and saving Co2 etc, but surely, with figs you've produced, your energy consumption has gone up by over 30% on the 2020 figs? Since Youve had the heat pump your heating and hot water energy consumption has gone from 12,000kwh using gas to 14,790kwh with the heat pump? You have then said you would of used 15780kwh of gas! Sorry Tom, am I missing something? It doesn't add up. If in 2020 you needed 12,000 kWh, but, why do you now need 15780kw?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

​​⁠I guess the change to note is that we are now much more comfortable. We are using more heat, keeping the house at a more comfortable temperature. And the comfort came as a consequence of me trying to improve efficiency. Ie running for longer hours at lower radiator temperatures. So we now deliver more heat than we did in our first year with the system, but use a similar amount of electricity. I take your point that the house has used more heat this year. But the key point is that it has used less energy Thanks for getting into the detail! Tom

[@Lewis_Standing]

​@@jezzaandrews1940 you're right. As Tom was saying in the video he didn't want to heat his home fully with gas, as he was feeling guilty about it causing emissions. He eluded to disagreements about what temp to keep the house at etc in the family. So because he's now happy using a lower polluting method of heating, he's happy to keep the house warmer. At least that's my interpretation of the situation. I do the same. I under heat my house because I don't want to be using "Putin juice" or "Saudi juice" But with a heat pump I wouldn't care.and probably use more delivered heat energy.

[@bordersw1239]

Always amazes me how much gas people use, my predicted usage from Octopus is 8300kWh of gas - 8 year old combi boiler, 4 bed (2001 build)detached house . Just a standard Wimpey house. Not exactly a warm area either - Wales. House is inhabited 24hrs a day. I just use the timer for 3 heating periods and minimum temperatures in between. If anyone feels cold we turn up the thermostat.

[@richardlewis5316]

I live in a similar property 3 bed detached I run my Combi at 50-55 degrees for most cold days (2 degrees) which costs (according to my smart meter) about £2.60 per day so for Nov - April it costs £312 in fuel cost. For days when I'm out its off. Adjust the flow temp to suit the outside temp and the boiler works in full condensing mode

[@bordersw1239]

@ . Yep similar for me, gas bill is about £640 per year.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi both - I guess a point to remember is my home was built in the 1880s, so could be a bit leakier than a 2001 build! Richard, altering your flow temperature is great. The heat pump users weather compensation controls to do this automatically. Thanks Tom

[@richardlewis5316]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle Weather compensation systems are all very well but my trusty gas boiler can be turned up to 70 to heat a cold house very quickly. Then I turn it back to 50 when house warmed in about an hour!! Old fashioned I suppose but very efficient! Cheers

[@bordersw1239]

@ . Have you insulated under your ground floor?

[@SolAce-nw2hf]

Don't forget the extra savings when you get rid of the gas mains.

[@Cyberbobxxxx]

All of 60p a day. The electricity cap has gone on the 1st so cancelled out any savings.

[@SolAce-nw2hf]

@ In the Netherlands it saves more. But don't underestimate how much a heat pump can stretch 60p worth of electricity.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

£110 per year is nothing for Cyberbob!

[@SolAce-nw2hf]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle Down in the Netherlands the standing charge and energy supplier charge for the gas mains comes down to about €360 a year. As more people switch to heat pumps the overhead increases per remaining connected home.

[@Lewis_Standing]

Carbon brief we're quoting 125g/KWh for this year, perhaps it's lower because they included 0 carbon imports?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

That would be a big jump! MygridGB has an estimate of 177g/kWh, Draz Electricity Insights estimates 119! I'd be celebrating anything less than 180g!!

[@kenmerry2729]

Hi Tom, I like what you are doing but looking at the facts still leaves me thinking I'll stay as I am. My daily heating bill for my bungalow was just over £6 for the day and your electricity usage at my tariffs came out at just over £7.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Ken, not sure we can compare costs between two different homes in different locations. How many kWh of gas did you use last year? What is the age of your house? How big a bungalow? Would it be fair to compare with a 110m2 Victorian Terrace in the North East of England?

[@iareid8255]

Tom, a simple question, how do you measure the heat output?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hello! I mention it in this video - we have a dedicated heat meter measuring heat output. This is a Sontex Superstatic 449 heat meter. Thanks Tom

[@iareid8255]

@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle That doeswn't explain how the heat is measured, just what measures it. What exactly is it mearuring, and please don't say temperature.

[@Lewis_Standing]

​​@@iareid8255they often have an ultrasonic monitor for flow measurement through the pipes. So for a given pipe size, the ultrasound can measure how fast the volume is moving and therefore how much heat is travelling in it. Compare it vs the return temp and that's the heat delivered.

[@robinbennett5994]

@@iareid8255 A heat meter measure the flow rate of the water leaving the heat pump, and the temperature difference between the flow and return pipes. The heat capacity of water is known, so it can do some simple maths to calculate the heat output. There's a lot more detail on line, but most home owners don't need to know the details, just like they don't need to understand all the complexity going on in an electricity meter.

[@BenIsInSweden]

@@iareid8255 Google is a great resource for getting answers like this, maybe you've heard of it?

[@infty1487]

I think it’s unfair on heat pump when we don’t consider like for like usage (lifestyle) with gas boiler. I mean, cost and co2 comparison should be 24/7 for both if heat pump is used full time (24/7).

[@mackay250]

I ran my gas boiler at 30 ish flow temperature 24/7 and it cost me about £4 a day ish and my house was really warm. My heat pump running 24/7 on octopus intelligent cost me about £3 a day.

[@infty1487]

@@mackay250 I think that is the key, low flow temperature. I was a victim and also guilty of using my boiler at very high temp hence only operated it 10hr/day. I learnt a lot when researching on heat pump that we can potentially save money and have cosy home with boilers, only factor left to tackle would be co2.

[@mackay250]

Yeah a low flow temperature saves money and uses less co2. Makes your house very warm all day too. I found when it was -2 outside I needed 35c flow. Everyday I would adjust it to the weather forecast. Worked very well. Everyone should do it.

[@infty1487]

@@mackay250 Do new boilers come with weather compensation system like heat pumps have so that you don't have to adjust flow temp daily? Just asking for anyone reading is thinking of installing a new boiler instead of heat pump.

[@mackay250]

@ Yes they do, but most don't as with mine so I just did it every morning.

[@Cyberbobxxxx]

Heat pump U turn! kzbin.info/www/bejne/aXjFl6tqgs2GoLssi=9F5nkOMq8Hyg-2mL

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Thanks Bob - this is terrible news. And locks in high cost and high emissions homes for years to come. Really odd that you would celebrate this. Notice you have not replied to my comment about your terribly biased documentary, doesn't stand up to scrutiny does it? Have you watched the documentary I shared, doubt it!

[@Cyberbobxxxx]

Not celebrating anything . I’m just glad I didn’t waste a massive amount of money on this over complicated nonsense. Not read your rebuttal I’m afraid but can imagine that you would find a video , survey or something to discredit it. The heat pump bubble has burst I’m afraid. But you’re going to have to make it work for years to come unless you move. But you might have trouble as people aren’t buying houses with heat pumps. 😢

[@BenIsInSweden]

Only 2 minutes in and it's a video repeating the same old misinformation. Just because someone whos anti-heatpumps says something doesn't make it anymore true.

[@Cyberbobxxxx]

@@BenIsInSwedenI can guess you wasted a load of money on a heat pump!! Our house is 23c and above but didn’t spend £15k to get it!!

[@BenIsInSweden]

@@Cyberbobxxxx Wasted? My house doesn't have a central wet system, and gas isn't available here, so if I wanted an oil fired wet system for my house it would cost a minimum of £25K. Heating Oil here also costs about £1 per L, which means it costs about the same price per kWh as electricity, so I will always save money over gas or oil. So no I don't think I wasted the £10K I spent on my heating system of multiple Air to Air units, of which one also does DHW. They also provide cooling in the summer, which because of solar panels costs me next to nothing. Also, my daughter regularly has her room up to 25C in winter, 23C is far too hot for me anyway, and have the rest of my house sitting at around 20-21C, even when it's -20C outside.

[@Cyberbobxxxx]

Didn’t think you would comment on that documentary as it would upset your narrative, heat pumps work and have never said they didn’t, you might save a little on electricity and carbon but 99% of people just want cheep gas and electricity and a cheep combi boiler for the winter time. Carbon dioxide emissions are with us like it or not and afew heat pumps won’t make a bit of difference. Also not many people have the money or the house for it. Keep on with your videos on how great it’s going and how much carbon and money you save. But it’s not going to. I will attach these documentaries to every video you post to balance things out.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Thanks Bob, I was at work all day Friday and away this weekend so not had a chance to watch your documentary. I will watch and thoroughly debunk it when I get a chance. I don’t want a few heat pumps, I want 25 million to replace gas boilers in the UK Thanks again for commenting, more comments on my videos means that KZbin will push the videos to more people!

[@Cyberbobxxxx]

⁠the truth of nut zero will prevail

[@Cyberbobxxxx]

⁠hmmm but you managed to get another video out!!!

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

@@Cyberbobxxxxrecorded on Wednesday

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Bob, watched the documentary, and have a few thoughts in response. Firstly, the documentary is targeted at the low carbon economy but then goes on to discuss the problems of mining, our existing extractivist economy and the use of material broadly. I would respond with this graph - www.energy-transitions.org/bitesize/its-in-the-charts-materials-needed-to-deliver-the-energy-transition/#:~:text=Between%202022%E2%80%932050%2C%20the%20energy,of%20steel%2C%20copper%20and%20aluminium. - i.e. the amount of coal we currently mine each year is more material than we would need in the total energy transition. So if you have some problems with the impact of mining, you would want to transition away from the existing economy. Once we have transitioned to a low carbon future, our impact on the environment will reduce substantially. And the environmental disaster of the fossil fuel industry will no longer be required. 2nd, as a chartered environmentalist, I work to reduce environmental impact at my workplace and in my community, I am thoroughly aware of the impact of mining in the UK, and around the world. As the documentary ends, we need to move away from the growth focussed economy - more more more, towards a circular economy, possibly built on principles around 'doughnut economics' popularised by Economist Kate Raworth. This is exactly what we need to do, moving away from fossil fuels would make this much easier as we would need to mine significantly less material than our current system. One thing to note, is that from a primary energy point of view (one metric we could use to understand how much material we use) moving away from thermal energy plants (i.e. gas power stations), from internal combustion engines and from gas boilers, towards renewable energy generation, electric vehicles and heat pumps would use significantly less energy as low carbon technology does not have the losses that thermal energy plants do. I would encourage you to watch the documentary 'Big Oil Vs the World' - it is in 3 parts so asking a bit more of you than you did of me... 1st part here kzbin.info/www/bejne/f2SVg2mPrZ6Diqs You may not 'believe' in climate change, but if you care about mining and environmental impact, then moving away from our business as usual is key to minimising that impact. All the best Tom

[@richardlewis5316]

I install central heating using gas boilers. Modern boiler and customers who use the temperature controls can heat a house for about £3.00 per day in winter and 0 in summer so the small savings you show for using heat pump are negligible when compared with a possible £15000 installation cost. And for what? Climate has been changing for 3 billion years

[@Cyberbobxxxx]

Well said! I’ve also been a heating engineer for over 25 years. About time this narrative is questioned.

[@BenIsInSweden]

How are you heating your hot water for 0 with a gas boiler in summer?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Richard - great that you install heating systems, £3 per day obviously would vary depending on the size of house, weather, internal temperature etc. A gas boiler keeping my house comfortable was not £3 per day. Heat pumps have a £7500 grant to help support the installation. Many will cost the customer similar to a gas boiler. I would encourage you to look again at heat pumps, we need your skills and experience if we are going to reduce reliance on gas. And your last point about climate - absolutely it has been changing, but since humans have existed, it is unlikely to have changed this rapidly. There is risk of catastrophe, surely we should do whatever we can to minimise that risk? (As well as reduce pollutants like NOx which damages are health, reduce reliance on dodgy regimes around the world, and reduce risk of gas price volatility) Thanks Tom

[@richardlewis5316]

@@BenIsInSweden Dishwasher for washing up , electric shower for shower and sink, air fryer to cook, kettle for tea and coffee.. Total electric per day about 80pence (UK)

[@BenIsInSweden]

@@richardlewis5316 so not a benefit of a gas boiler then. Heat pump would cut the cost of the hot water used for shower and sink by about 1/3rd. And the cost you talk of for a heat pump "£15,000" isn't for the heat pump. most of that is for switching to low temperature heating, which would benefit gas boilers as well. £3 per day is about 47kWh at current price cap. Multiplied by 90 is about 4230kWh, typical annual gas consumption of a UK home is over double that. Unless things have changed in the UK and winter now lasts 6 months 🤷

[@stephenpeat3885]

48 degree hot water you more likely to have legionnaires disease bacteria you need hot water at 65 degree to kill bacteria. Your heatpump need to be set higher for your hotwater tank,

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Stephen - very true, although HSE guidance is to store above 60° not 65°. Most heat pump systems have a pasteurisation setting that will lift water above 60 once a week to minimise legionella risk. Tom

[@Cyberbobxxxx]

It is 65c and has to be that temperature constantly. This is the major flaw with heat pumps. You have to run an electric heater to boost. Otherwise legionella can occur in between .

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

@@Cyberbobxxxx www.hse.gov.uk/legionnaires/hot-and-cold.htm What do you mean by electric boost? All heat pumps are electric! The system does not use an immersion coil to heat above 60

[@Cyberbobxxxx]

⁠if read it it’s has to reach the tap at the correct temp. That’s why it’s at least 65c . How hot is your water out of the tap? How hot is your pump heating the cylinder? Not 65c . It will have a 3kw heater in the cylinder.

[@BenIsInSweden]

@@Cyberbobxxxx no it doesn't.. His heat pump can do 75C without an immersion.

[@Cyberbobxxxx]

Did you see the data sheet showing a cop of 2.1 ?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Dave - I replied to your email. The COP you are listing is when external temperature is -7° which rarely, if ever, happens in Durham and much of the UK

[@Cyberbobxxxx]

Don’t use that email. It’s funny you can’t even be honest about the temps for the last week or so.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

@@Cyberbobxxxx​​⁠sorry Dave / Jo / Bob, I just replied to your email, didn’t know I wasn’t supposed to use it…? The temperatures in Durham got down to -4/-5°. I’m not being dishonest about anything You’re the one using a false name!!!

[@Cyberbobxxxx]

The data was there all along but you chose to ignore it. -5 or -7 is really immaterial and is further proof of the heat pumps poor performance in a normal Uk winter.

[@Cyberbobxxxx]

What’s your COP today? 1.5 ish ?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

2.5 for the last couple of days. Planning a video about how warm we are. Did a similar one last year - kzbin.info/www/bejne/j6S4dGt3ls2Nibs What is your gas use? Although I am thrilled that you are thinking of me so regularly, it is pretty strange. I wish my dog paid me as much attention as you do

[@Cyberbobxxxx]

Just keep to the facts!! At zero degrees, I don’t think so. Even the manufacturer doesn’t quote that cop. What heatpump model is It save me looking back?

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

@@Cyberbobxxxx It is a Vaillant Arotherm Plus 5 kW. Vaillant actually claim higher COP at 0 degrees than I have experienced - this is listed in the table on this site energy-stats.uk/how-to-measure-vaillant-arotherm-cop/ Your understanding of heat pump performance sounds outdated at best...? Mustn't have paid much attention in your 25 years in the heating industry.... 😯

[@Cyberbobxxxx]

Let’s not make personal insults as it shows you have lost focus on the topic in hand. A Cop of 2.1 that’s in a lab testing facility at the back of the pipe outlets. It reduces there after through all the pipe work , valves and cylinder heat losses. Your calculations, calibration and software model is off I’m afraid. Just trying to get the right information out there.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

​@@Cyberbobxxxx Your opinion on objective fact is not helping anyone. I have not lost any focus. And personal insults - you keep calling me a 'Nut', you questioned my professional integrity, called me crazy. I said your understanding is outdated ...hmmmm The heat meter installed on my kit is here - www.dmsltd.com/p_78_sontex-superstatic-449-heat-meter There are dozens of heat pumps that have been more efficient than mine in the last week, as outlined on this page. Not all of those are 'off' heatpumpmonitor.org/?period=last7&minDays=5 It appears that facts and data mean nothing to you. Give me a reference for a COP of 2.1 for a heat pump at 0°C. How much gas are you using today?

[@Cyberbobxxxx]

Interesting video on why renewables won’t save the planet- kzbin.info/www/bejne/hF7ccn-GetWJatksi=mS4nNuHRVtPd76uc

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

There are quite a few critiques of Michael Shellenburger online, why do you cherrypick arguments that support your perspective rather than listening to the majority of scientists?

[@Cyberbobxxxx]

⁠you put yourself out there mate! Can’t your nut zero position handle a few softball alternative points of view? Your position can’t be that delicate can it???

[@Cyberbobxxxx]

Any comments on the dark Side of nut zero video? kzbin.info/www/bejne/mKSTi3ugbJt0qMUsi=VBRpjbQ9rrNS_5yC

[@MentalLentil-ev9jr]

That video is just propaganda for the fossil fuel industry, I suggest people either don't bother watching it, or watch it very critically. Hint, they say a lot of things that either aren't true, or heavily exaggerated, while ignoring the huge problems of using fossil fuels.

[@Cyberbobxxxx]

@@MentalLentil-ev9jrdream on buddy. The truth hurts the nut zero narrative.

[@Cyberbobxxxx]

To many of these nut zero truth videos done by facts , figures and by scientists. You will die if you didn’t have fossil fuels as most things are made from oil!!! So you will have to live in a cave and wear animal skins and walk everywhere. There is no alternative so it’s with us like it or not and can’t be ignored like all these eco warriors trying to get us all an expensive heat pump , EV and solar panels!!! They are still having all the home comforts and oh don’t forget drugs!! All made from oil. So Sorry to tell the hole truth.

[@Cyberbobxxxx]

@@MentalLentil-ev9jr To many of these nut zero truth videos done with facts , figures and by scientists. You will die if you didn’t have fossil fuels as most things are made from oil!!! So you will have to live in a cave and wear animal skins and walk everywhere. There is no alternative so it’s with us like it or not and can’t be ignored like all these eco warriors trying to get us all an expensive heat pump , EV and solar panels!!! They are still having all the home comforts and oh don’t forget drugs!! All made from oil. So Sorry to tell the hole truth.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Bob, watched the documentary, and have a few thoughts in response. Firstly, the documentary is targeted at the low carbon economy but then goes on to discuss the problems of mining, our existing extractivist economy and the use of material broadly. I would respond with this graph - www.energy-transitions.org/bitesize/its-in-the-charts-materials-needed-to-deliver-the-energy-transition/#:~:text=Between%202022%E2%80%932050%2C%20the%20energy,of%20steel%2C%20copper%20and%20aluminium. - i.e. the amount of coal we currently mine each year is more material than we would need in the total energy transition. So if you have some problems with the impact of mining, you would want to transition away from the existing economy. Once we have transitioned to a low carbon future, our impact on the environment will reduce substantially. And the environmental disaster of the fossil fuel industry will no longer be required. 2nd, as a chartered environmentalist, I work to reduce environmental impact at my workplace and in my community, I am thoroughly aware of the impact of mining in the UK, and around the world. As the documentary ends, we need to move away from the growth focussed economy - more more more, towards a circular economy, possibly built on principles around 'doughnut economics' popularised by Economist Kate Raworth. This is exactly what we need to do, moving away from fossil fuels would make this much easier as we would need to mine significantly less material than our current system. One thing to note, is that from a primary energy point of view (one metric we could use to understand how much material we use) moving away from thermal energy plants (i.e. gas power stations), from internal combustion engines and from gas boilers, towards renewable energy generation, electric vehicles and heat pumps would use significantly less energy as low carbon technology does not have the losses that thermal energy plants do. I would encourage you to watch the documentary 'Big Oil Vs the World' - it is in 3 parts so asking a bit more of you than you did of me... 1st part here kzbin.info/www/bejne/f2SVg2mPrZ6Diqs You may not 'believe' in climate change, but if you care about mining and environmental impact, then moving away from our business as usual is key to minimising that impact. All the best Tom

[@Cyberbobxxxx]

It’s understandable you refuse to acknowledge valiants own data sheet showing the actual COP in winter temps. Can’t wait for your winter running costs video. No don’t use them for heating. Sorry to disappoint. Only use the heatpump on the hottub in the summer time as it really is cheeper than running a 3Kw heater. But only as it’s a spare.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

‘We have 2 split systems for and cooling heating’ - is what you said on your last comment. You haven’t given me any link to show the COP you say you saw on the website. The link I gave you does not list this COP. I’ve done loads of videos about costs in winter - here is one - kzbin.info/www/bejne/fZ7WfolsdtWqhZYsi=9BIQTJfFFuodNq5g I’d encourage you to stop commenting, I’ve offered to arrange a conversation to talk to you properly, you don’t appear to be engaging with the points I make at all. All the best to you sir

[@sidneymaster5]

You need to stop trolling or come up with a video explaining why you dissaprove with his points

[@Cyberbobxxxx]

Your comment on wanting 25million heat pumps is crazy!!! Here’s why- ​​⁠if you are a chartered whatever then you would know that on today’s register for fairly decent qualified heat pump installers , 2000, installing 100k pumps a year would take over 200 years to install 25 million pumps. And these figures are very conservative . Definitely not going to happen and I haven’t taken into account unsuitable houses. Your model does not work I’m afraid.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

Hi Cyberbob, I think the issue is that you do not agree we should reduce emissions in response to climate change, everything seems crazy to you because you do not understand the challenge. I am fully aware we do not have sufficient installers to meet the need, and that the rate of change is not quick enough (seems like you don't watch or listen properly to my videos). I have worked with local further education colleges to try and promote low carbon technology education. You have mentioned elsewhere that you are a heating engineer with lots of experience, if so, you would be a fantastic heat pump installer. For some reason, you choose to accept that the status quo is appropriate. We need to remove 25 million gas boilers from UK homes, more gas boilers from commercial properties, the technology we have to replace them, today, would be heat pumps, electric boilers, electric radiators or heat networks, we need to deploy all of the above if we are going to reduce our share of emissions. I really would like you to engage properly with climate science rather than trolling someone who is working to reduce risk of climate change. If you are happy with flooding in Valencia, Eastern Europe and in Brazil, record breaking hurricanes in the gulf of mexico, record breaking drought in Paraguay, and Namibia, record temperatures in Austira, Spain, Finland, Japan, Australia and Switzerland, record rainfall in the UAE, heat waves in the Sahel and India. You can choose to ignore what is happening, or accept the risks and work to minimise them. If you wanted to talk anything through other than in KZbin comments, I would be happy to chat - drop me an email on [e-mail] Thanks Tom

[@Cyberbobxxxx]

⁠ I don’t believe the Uks nut zero will make any difference. A balance of Nuclear, gas and hydro is the way forward. Wind and solar just makes it worse. Both killing of the land, sea and associated wildlife. Heat Pumps are far too complicated and expensive and I don’t see any credible evidence they help anything. I am a supporter of nuclear and we live right near oldbury power station that is now shut down but ran for 50 years and was the cleanest power ever produced. Our new one down the coast is being built and we need a few more. Then you can truly run your pump without guilt. We need cheep clean energy and that’s nuclear. It’s slowly dawning on the new set of tossers in charge.

[@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle]

I engage with you politely and in detail but you continue to call me a 'nut', and suggest that elected members of parliament are 'tossers', you are just a troll aren't you? Wind and solar do not make things worse, they provide cheap, clean electricity. Heat pumps are not complicated, you have one in your kitchen. What evidence do you need? Heat pumps use significantly less energy, every one installed means the UK uses less energy overall, they work perfectly well in our climate, much less dangerous than burning a fuel indoors. Nuclear should form part of the energy mix, although construction is slow and costly, and waste is still an issue. Those being constructed at the moment guarantee electricity costs would be double those of on-shore wind.

[@Cyberbobxxxx]

⁠not called u a nut, So not fair to say I’m a troll. Been nothing but civil. I believe that the current government are what I said. Only elected by a 20% of the population. This path they have is going down is only ensuring high energy prices. Especially when they pay wind and solar to turn off!!! This is all madness.