Listen Loco Ep. 57 - MSI 2019 Semis, Finals, and Building Team Liquid Ft. MarkZ and Liquid Steve

[@locodoco]

Time Stamps 3:06 - TL vs IG Upset 14:13 - What went wrong for IG 20:55 - What TL did right 24:00 - SKT vs G2 35:12 - Liquid Steve Arrives 37:15 - Building Team Liquid 46:10 - Picking Up Doublelift 48:30 - Can TL Perform Like This at Worlds? 54:37 - TL vs The Meta 59:51 - TL’s Hidden Gems? 1:05:32 - Teams are Businesses 1:12:00 - Roster Opportunity and Competition 1:20:41 - How did Steve stay calm in Breaking Point 1:23:17 - Support for NA at MSI 1:26:15 - Can TSM still perform?

[@iFParasit]

Pleas next time you haveve Problems when a guest is "Late" forgo him completely. The theme of the show was the games and what happened aslong as mark as on and turned into a liquid reflection afterwards. Both are good themes (not counted personal preference) if dealt with on their own, but giving them only 50% of the time, this show was a trainwreck in my opinion. Same could be said when Veteran had to sub in too.

[@Rayon811]

@@iFParasit true

[@pandour]

Loco please don't jebait us again, instead of MSI finals episode say the episode wil be MSI afterthoughts with Steve, or something like that.

[@NiyaCathrel]

Seriously? An MSI finals episode all about TL and the business of esports?

[@Hanomai]

@Jurica Sambol ???

[@saint3371]

Loved the Wonder Tweet that was like "Ready for the fastest international final?" The Balls of this G2 Team

[@usedtobereign]

Saguine He also said they would win vs TL 9/10 times. Tbh, he probably knew the outcome based on scrims, similar to how they destroyed OG 14-1 in scrims before the final.

[@Bedrock_Blaster]

He even said _"Ready for the fastest Bo5 in international tournament ever played"_ Not just final

[@georgekourie4031]

I loved the G2 twitter accounts in general. Especially the G2 team account and Carlos' account. Some of my favorites were the Hold on Liquid just gota take out the trash gif and the one with a horse trying to jump a fence and face planting. Tbh i wish more teams had the balls to do and say what G2 does to make it more interesting, then again not everyone can be a meme lord.

[@asdfomfglol]

Wunder*

[@spring1242]

THE ARTISTS

[@SaerathTV]

Gz on graduating mr editor

[@Vexumy]

@Jurica Sambol EU is not good region. They beat a bottom tier NA team and haven't played against Griffin yet :)

[@marco5030]

@@Vexumy I can't tell how much of a troll you are, but Griffin fell off and G2 beat SKT, who 6-0d the other two top teams. TL showed they could 3-1 one of the very best teams in the World. I don't mind saying the gap isn't definitively closed, but the West has shown they have top teams in the entire World.

[@Vexumy]

@@marco5030 I think TL is dog shit and Griffin is the best team in the world. Griffin can lose to SKT because they play each other non stop. G2 wouldn't have a chance against Griffin.

[@3n3rgy90]

Imagine having the owner of TL there and not talking about the finals that just happened.

[@theleafsbloodyflash]

It's in poor taste

[@Beckst]

SO you didn't even talk about the finals ?? lmao

[@PkedSome]

Can't really discuss anything over a stomp

[@kirtapk95]

you could but not if it is NA thats getting stomped i guess

[@fpromasterv9858]

Today will ne another Episode with a G2 member about the final.

[@pandour]

@@fpromasterv9858 i wouldnt be on that, he said he will try to and theres no announcement yet.

[@swtorrogaming8384]

Well Loco is Paid by Steve LUL so KR and NA biased his little soul shattered inside by EU eliminating Koreea and then stomping NA

[@mark5338]

G2 win over SKT was a lot more satisfying when you see everytime SKT got an early lead they had at least one inferal drake. They had 3 infernal spawns in a row. RNG was with them, thats what makes G2 even better to have beaten them through that

[@PG-dw6ux]

The joke is PromisQ liftet a trophy more important then loco for doing nothin

[@benjaminpevzner6261]

@luke g didnt he allow g2 to practice while mickey was injured?

[@PG-dw6ux]

@luke g you know what a joke is?

[@georgekourie4031]

The man gets memed a lot but you can tell from just how much credit the G2 players give him that he has helped a lot. I'm pretty sure he feels that way that he now has an LEC title and an MSI title wven though he played no official games, but then again without him the other players couldn't have achieved what they have. I for one believe he deserved the medal as much as any other. Besides if coaching staff gets recognized why shouldn't the substitute who helped in the coaching be as well?

[@swtorrogaming8384]

Thing is that if you check the G2 korean bootcamps vlogs before MSI PromisQ was actually at the PC playing games to practice and improve in case that MikyX didnt got the doctor approval to play

[@nukano9280]

soooo will there be an episode on the MSI finals?

[@ImmunePi3]

ye i really hope they get an eu guest to discuss it

[@NLJeffEU]

Same, this was weak af

[@rafik1205]

yes, today with someone from g2

[@georgekourie4031]

They better get Perkz on if they're doing that, or even Wunder, the "are you ready for the fastest international bo5 ever" tweet was so good given they backed it up and would live to hear Thooorin banter about it with him.

[@daniellow11]

Would be cool if you got Ocelot / Grabz for the next episode and talk about their side of MSI and the final. ... Plus mb then you actually talk about final :)

[@beyerravn123]

Ocelote would be my choice then. In the talkshows I've seen with Grabbz, he doesn't take critique well and I feel like he's a bit too cocky.

[@Geralt546]

@@beyerravn123 Depends on what you want to achieve by inviting Ocelote because Grabbz is a very informative coach and Ocelote was just cheering for G2 in his office. I personally would prefer some firsthand information about the games and the tournament from the coach. Grabbz doesn't take critique very well when it's undeserved or straight up bullshit by his opinion. When he f**ked up in drafts he said openly that it's on him. If he's too cocky for you that's ok but it's just your opinion.

[@Rikent]

Did I just watch a 90 minute TL ad?

[@marco5030]

They spend more time criticizing IG's play than praising TL, then had the owner on.

[@courage9722]

congratulations on graduating!

[@tomascoelhopinto]

This logic absolutely reks by brain. "iG showed up against us that was a real series." But also "we didn't show up against G2 our mental was off". How can you hold these two ideas in your brain at the same time.

[@georgekourie4031]

I do believe mental has a part to play, we all play worse if we tilt. When iG lost game 1 you could tell they tilted real hard especially the jgl while TL got a confidence boost. Skip to the G2 series, you lose game 1 in such a stomp that you start questioning your abilities and stop making plays you otherwise would. The moment Caps got the 1v2 outplay it was over TL completely collapsed to where they were scared shitless of the man, hence not taking the 3v5 fight top lane and well... getting completely shit on in 18mins.

[@EE12345]

Most people hold the opposite idea in their brain: "IG didn't show up against TL they're still bad" also "TL showed up against G2 they're just bad". Same hypocrisy different bias

[@ShrympyRS]

@@georgekourie4031 If your mental is that easily broken you're just a garbage team. The skt g2 series was brutal as well but neither team gave up. PAthetic from TL that they just gave up. What is even worse is that people are defending that shit.

[@awesomeness636]

@@georgekourie4031 I agree that mental is a big factor in these games but I don't think it should be an excuse. Part of being a top level player is having strong mental and not letting yourself be affected too much these things. G2 got hard stomped in their first game against SKT as well, but they didn't mental boom

[@georgekourie4031]

@@awesomeness636 true but Perkz still said that after that game everyone felt down a bit and then he stepped in and said oh whatever we haven't played sona taric in a long time this loss is whatever. I can see the TL loss being more depressing because they were playing to their usual strength, they even had the pick that allowed them to beat iG in the skarner and a comfort pick for pretty much everyone. If you get hard stomped on your comfort picks it stings more than getting stomped on a random cheese comp. Even with that being said TL just lost faith in their hands completely by the end.

[@Golden_A]

I just realise something while watching this. When owners are part of a team and are competitors, they are pretty succesfull and likeable, and I wouldn't be surprise that it translate to players performance.

[@Destromath2]

Already watched it on Twitch, just here to leave a like & a comment. I thought this was a great episode, but we need an actual finals analysis episode with someone from G2

[@amharris]

I believe Loco said there's a surprise G2 guest for the 23rd/Thursday.

[@c.s.5060]

Can these three guys please say “like” more!! It’s why I tune in. Smh

[@WaghRules]

Finally a fast upload ffs keep it up

[@Shingeki__]

Idk why I expected humility from Thorin lol. I'm just happy NA actually beat IG. I thought it was going to be an easy 3-1 going there way but fucking TL kicked their shit in. That was wild bro. No one was expecting ALL of TL to pop off like that and especially for Xmithie to match up with Ning? Crazy. G2 smoked us like I knew they would bu I ain't even mad. I knew Perkz going bot and Caps brought to mid was going to make that team a powerhouse. So congrats to EU. You earned it.

[@firerocket7343]

I heard someone from the Chinese community said Ning recently broke up with his girlfriend. Well, this again prove that gamers don't need girlfriend.

[@HessitheOriginal]

How can Steve claim TL was suprised that G2 counters their top lane Gangplank with Swain when Wonder used exactly that counter pick to totally trash Impact during Rift Rivals last year?

[@georgekourie4031]

Suppose they thought it wasn't meta and thus G2 wouldn't pick it. Big mistake when facing the team known in the east as the artists.

[@TheCp6]

I think sivir in game 1 for TL was a huge pick. It have them so much waveclear to stall out the game and get the lategame teamfights. If IG had won game 1 it might have gone differently, TL wouldn't be so confident. IG wins games by scaring players, abusing their mental.

[@newt7230]

Funny that the opposite happened to IG

[@itemtest1]

And G2 won in the end. Feels good :)

[@tofuhoohoo5850]

Loco you are not qualified to wear that liquid hoodies

[@devillonesome8648]

Comon he has to milk hate like TL shtick.

[@LazyTestudines]

I mean, he legit fucking worked for them. He is just as if not more entitled to wearing that hoodie as an avid TL fan.

[@rayge4478]

stfu lmao

[@tofuhoohoo5850]

@@LazyTestudines such a fool. At the very start i supported him just because he used to be part of us. After seeing and hearing countless bashing from this korean dude. That's it!

[@depressean8295]

Optic and 100T can easily make a run at the top. Optic could have gone out and got CodySun and Flame or another strong import top laner and could easily take shots at the top 3. 100T could have pursued Golden or Damonte or Pobelter and with Amazing, probably could an incredible team. FQ with a couple strong imports could do the same. There are pieces floating around that can be put together to make great teams, we just havent seen a lot of players potential and haven't seen a lot of orgs being proactive and really going after strong talent both domestically and internationally.

[@depressean8295]

not to mention there are still a few very high elo solo queue players who could be given a chance or old pros that are still high elo that could maybe be convinced to compete. A few things TL has done that really flew under the radar but could have a large positive impact in the future, is picking up players like TF Blade and Rakin. IF these guys can be put in the right environment to compete they could be great players in the region. All this is in context to the discussions around 1:12:00

[@pixolako8121]

Great episode

[@crls1]

10:58 that's why my friends Thorin is a legend.

[@kejtos5]

I don't know, Loco has so Compettitive mindset when it comes to esport, but so 180 to it when it comes to "real life".

[@LikeACrouton]

All these people saying "you didn't talk about the finals" like, the fuck do you want them to say LOL. Talking about the semis upset is more interesting than talking about the expected finals result.

[@dexgames4366]

48:30 Steve's answer made me burst of laugh.

[@MrDoomroom]

1:16 Thoorin opening 😂😂😂

[@kirbysxx]

I am actually going to buy a honda steve, i got u fam

[@touayaaj84]

Loco is in so much denial about TL beating IG.

[@husseinpoliphilo]

How about this? ALL NA Roster if your 4 below go all NA and get a budget roster that can compete.

[@killiamkili2041]

Liquid Steve really looks like an awesome guy, appreciated his participation in this Listen Loco

[@ANNO_UNDERCOVER]

Ning and Baolan turbo inted that TL series, and they did it at worlds as well in a lot of games, I don't know why these guys get so much praise. Baolan off Rakan is genuinely bad

[@team3am149]

Anno They inted 2 games at Worlds and 1 series at MSI. Look at some of Baolan's plays on other champions in the LPL Playoffs. You can't call a player bad for screwing up a few games, CoreJJ played like absolute trash in the group stage, yet still showed up in the Semifinals

[@user-lk4lx9je4y]

A lot of people mention how much stronger G2 is then the rest of the region, and that is true. It is also true that TL lasted about as long as Origen did in the finals of the LEC. I am a long standing LEC fan and the level of the region has risen compared to last year. If we take the top 3 of this year and compare it to the top 3 of last year then this year clearly stands out. G2 compared to last year Fnatic, I would take this years G2. Origen against last years G2, aside from their sprint at the end I think Origen looks a lot better then G2 from last year. I myself comapred TL to Origen and i think the two are very similar in strength and style. But I think Kold is a better jungler and DL/CoreJJ a better bot lane. Finally Fnatic this year is better then Vitality. Vitality has remained mostly the same and they still play the same playstyle. Mogli is a more consistant jungler then Kikis, but the strength of the league has grown when Vitaliy remained largely the same team. So to me there is no question this years LEC is better then last years EU LCS. But that still doesn't mean EU is the best region, but it does mean that I am also not willing to say that somehow NA's second or third best are better then Europe's secondary teams. I think Rift Rivals will go devinitifly one way and that is towards EU favored matches.

[@AdRian-gz9lw]

NA like underestimate EU as region, they will be again shock at Rift Rivals... Remember how SPY who end 6 this split when they play in Rift Rivals(coz summer they was 3rd) win against TL(winner of NA LCS this split). When they put his best against worst of EU to get easy win xD. Even 2vs4 group last rift rivals in group they win. Coz all know SPY back then play for NA. And they complain Eu Fans always underestimate NA. Short memory... i can't fcking w8 to this rift rivals :).

[@YuranX]

Tbh...do people actually care about Rift Rivals?

[@AdRian-gz9lw]

@@YuranX since ppl talk shit about G2 dont represent EU strong... Like only G2 3:0 in region final... SKT 3:0 Griffin and IG 3:0 his oponents. And after this TL series faster then OG ppl still bullshit OG and FNC xD So with this atitude when u rly belive your region can claps other... I rly care :) PS. And NA thinks just EU fans are baiast... idk they don't have mirrors?

[@cupcakecula321]

TL vs IG was like Sekiro with a guide book. G2 vs SKT was like Yami using mind crush.

[@FatFruityCake]

What are the posters in markz background?

[@shrekfanboy5446]

He said those are his girlfriends'. As in those belong to his girlfriend, not that those are his girlfriends.

[@АндрейЕлизаров-п2э]

Asking for a friend?

[@HydrusT]

NEW SHOW IDEA: "Thorin shuts the fuck up" :) I would watch that for sure!

[@learntoleagueme7881]

Thorin is a fucking savage LOL!

[@learntoleagueme7881]

1:36

[@tannertj33]

TSM FINAL FORM: Coach:Zikz/Reapered Top: Licorice Jungle: xSmithie (maybe an import instead? Korean to match Core?) Mid: Bjergsen Bot: DL Sup: Core

[@georgekourie4031]

I don't see this team being any different from 2017 TSM. Xmithie is a "ward jungler" and while core and Licorice might be upgrades the team would still fall into the same reactive playstyle.

[@AdRian-gz9lw]

WTF again fcking roster change... why not hard work to try to achieve something? NO! Take money and buy 3 the best NA and 2 the best worlds player... and again be suprise it's not works ^.^

[@mitchellwalters4678]

Current TL would beat that roster

[@Taylor370z]

Loco wearing his detachable mic while using an XLR is causing my OCD to tilt me.

[@narhwallord6985]

I don't remember anyone saying get rid of Double or Bjerg. They've been top talent since Season 4. All I can remember is the TSM fanboys looking for Svenskeren's head...

[@danielm9812]

But there was something about fixed mindset on how to play the game and also about being resource hungry. There was also the shitstorm about Bjergsen doing nothing/playing passiv and just sit in lane while waiting to lose.

[@dirkdiggler7253]

@@danielm9812 it's still that same way right now on TL. DL is a resource hog man what do you want bjerg to do when every team that DL is on plays through bot?

[@jeff-zg8wf]

can someone tell me what episode thorin is talking about at 1:20:41

[@inky_64]

Isn't breaking point a single documentary?

[@Koffe382]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/m3rdeIuqYpJ8nZY I believe this is it

[@TigerAlert]

@@Koffe382 at what time?

[@xOrlparx]

@@TigerAlert just watch it man, it's good

[@blackxel6414]

What are the posters in Markz's room ?

[@bubbaloo4424]

Really? TFblade is actually a potential player for TL? I think he's going to have to really improve his pool outside bruisers then. He's already been exposed at Twitch Rivals for that.

[@marcrush55]

You realize that everyone at twitch rivals were basically trolling right? It is not a serious event.

[@bubbaloo4424]

@@marcrush55 Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong tournament. They had some academy level players that exposed his champ pool hard.

[@mathiassjvik8700]

bubbaloo youre thinking of the Tyler1 championship when he kinda got exposed in the finals

[@richardkxiong]

Littler cousins from NA ~ Thorin 2019

[@davidd406]

what's the sword icon it's really nagging my mind

[@15Lanzo15]

Number of dildos up Loco's ****

[@james9612]

Number of subs that stream

[@ALTerTive]

jackeylove is better than doublelift tho, maybe he's not good at sitting in lane and farming all game but he's definitely got bigger balls and actually goes for plays (hence why the won worlds 2018 and went 9-0 during msi). half the time i watch doublelift in a teamfight he waits behind atleast 2 sets of walls before going in and cleaning up, or just not fighting at all. i honestly like double lift as a player especially his history and his ambition but mechanically, jackeylove is 100% better. Also keep in mind he has a world champion support that carries him in lane.

[@mckmsc1465]

Pretty easy to have massive balls when your 2 solo laners are in competition for best player in the world, and usually your jungler is also smurfing.

[@NiyaCathrel]

Since it feels like you didnt't talk about it in the episode: G2 won! Can we talk about that?

[@pootie3181]

Steve! bigfan

[@TheSergio1021]

NA-NA worlds final would be the hypest shit ever

[@Slitherpuff]

I don't understand why this show is called Listen Loco when it's Thooooorin's show.

[@valest9290]

It's like when Thorin starts talking and he goes "Listen Loco, blah blah .... blah blah...." Hope you understand what i mean ;D

[@KappaWatch]

... just cause people have different opinions on the b05 vs ig does not make them haters.. typical you dont agree with us you are a hater .. kinda bored of this attitude on the web..

[@pootie3181]

Just go buy honda

[@zakawie8298]

All I'm saying is LGD

[@maugetar9340]

Markz is so biased about EU and NA teams, as we are used to from his casting :/.

[@devillonesome8648]

Loco SALTY and denial about TL beating IG. Thooorin acting like loco is stupid for his assumption about TL while he had same opinion about TL.🤣🤣

[@Invictus-Solaris]

EU>NA. Just wanted to remind the NA fans. Everyone, have a great day!

[@nashred]

Not true Eu is garbage and will always be garbage... sorry kid

[@YuranX]

@@nashred You're the type of player to go 1/36/0 and say " you got lucky ,trash player lmao get a life noob"

[@Christoffer_EUW]

Steve is great :)

[@chriscobi634]

So if Loco's fans who favored Jackeylove over Doublelift are not in a talk show, why is Loco?

[@15Lanzo15]

That's the joke. He really isn't.

[@jamestang1934]

Steve is the fking best man how can anyone hate TL

[@Oh.Nah_]

Is it me or is the audio extremely buggy?

[@romo2barber]

What a complete waste of time

[@lyzaeeu1128]

IG legit just inted in the series vs TL. The toplane gank from lee sin on neeko, which is never gonna work against any pro with reaction time, while knowing jensen has TP advantage, straight up int. Or the 4v5 forced fight in TL jungle while ning is doing wolves, pure disrespect/int. TL did show they improved from groups into semi's, they made more proactive plays, but the result is a bit inflated, IG underperformed definitly. Concerning worlds and TL; I'm not as optimistic as most people are. The amount of champions/styles TL can play is really limited. Impact cant play akali for example, I havent seen coreJJ play more playmaking supports, and when it came to the "OP" picks TL didnt show any proficiency of utilizing their OPness. They have a really limited champ pool/style and they will get punished for this if the meta stays the same and they dont adapt. TL's individual players are not as good as international players. They either lack the ability to play multiple styles and are heavily champion locked or they lack mechanical skill - or both. Players always get rated from what we see, but never rated on what we don't see. CoreJJ playd really well at MSI, but he was on galio/tahm duty, occasional alistar. How well would TL play if they added more proactivity through botlane with coreJJ playing something like rakan? Impact has the same question mark for me, he doesnt play akali, never has lane prio unless he plays kennen, what would it look like if TL had a toplaner that could? The argument could be that these players are "put" on these champions as it fits the "TL style" more. However, like G2 has shown, flexibility and being able to change styles has a huge edge. I'd like to see TL trying more styles/ be more proactive in summer split, despite what result it might give. If they want to be a better team they have to come up with more styles/drafts. - Specially if the meta is going to shift towards more proactivity.

[@georgekourie4031]

@Simon Belanger He didn't say he doesn't play them he said that his champ pool is limited. I'll be honest i was surprised that TL never played the Xayah Rakan lane even though CoreJJ literally has a rakan skin made for him, so i wonder if that ends up falling on doublelift not playing Xayah. As far as playmaking picks go i'd also like to see CoreJJ pick up the Rakan, the Thresh, Pyke even. He has the skill to play all of them so why is he being held back and made to play scaling defend the adc comps most of the time?

[@NeverNedDead]

honestly IG would do these plays in every game... They make so many stupid plays, they just individually outplay their enemies

[@MrThedumbbunny]

SKT vs g2 opinion g2 want to be able to late game scale and team fight so they tested vs skt.

[@andrewnelson9570]

in the semis, Liquid was the best team among all four. SKT and G2 were making huge gaping mistakes constantly that either of those teams would NEVER allow normally.

[@AdRian-gz9lw]

Not sure... difrence betwen TL and IG this day was the biggest, but that makes TL better at samis then SKT or G2 - not sure. Fainal series was 19h after semis... not sure G2 play so much better... meaby oponent wasn't so good. But that just "ifs and buts" we will see at Rift Rivals :)

[@b0t155]

How to lose your entire na fanbase in 1 intro LOL

[@franborrut9156]

He spoke the truth. Fair and square lol

[@MadMrMatter]

no wonder loco is forced to be a KZbinr now, no org would want Loco anywhere near them with how toxic he is

[@pandour]

Yes, you are no doubt 100% correct.. Now go to your safe space.

[@dagronic8777]

So you talk about team liquid and boring na league stuff instead of MSI...

[@lawrencewatson8653]

Damn I’m first

[@danielrodrig33]

Grats

[@DonQuixe]

Steve in this video looked like he was crying before coming on the show.. maybe its just me..

[@nick1568]

I really like your content loco keep it up this series is fire, but Steve is SOOO annoying to listen to.

[@jpco1]

ResidentSleeper Hotline league has hotter takes

[@EE12345]

Thats because Hotline League has retards from reddit come on to give their takes

[@christiandegier7410]

Kekw

[@jamessicat]

Doublelift choked yet again.

[@thewhipofjustice5869]

jackeylove probably the worst adc in msi

[@mjakovcev22]

Are you for real?