Was Toyota Right About EVs All Along?

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Despite all the hype we’ve seen with EVs over the past couple of years, one automaker that has refused to jump onto the trend is Toyota. They’ve consistently stuck with hybrid cars and even hydrogen cars, but they’re quite unwilling to jump over to fully electric vehicles. This is quite ironic given that Toyota was a pioneer of the electrification trend having launched the Prius way back in the late 1990s. Much of Toyota’s hesitance to embrace electric vehicles is due to the energy crisis and Japan which would only be made worse by fully electric vehicles. But, this has actually worked out pretty well in Toyota’s favor as it seems that the average person is also quite hesitant to jump over to EVs. In fact, Tesla deliveries are down 8.5% year over year, but hybrid sales are up 76%. This video explains the various reasons why EVs aren’t picking up as quickly as enthusiasts expected and whether Toyota was right all along about fully electric vehicles.
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Timestamps:
0:00 - Toyota’s Big Bet
2:11 - Biased Intentions
6:42 - The Case For Hybrids
9:56 - The Future Of EVs
Resources:
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Disclaimer:
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[@beinquisitive]

Who knew that all they had to do was make the Prius not look totally ugly anymore?🤷🏻‍♂️

[@LogicallyAnswered]

😂

[@ricotrejo4125]

Was never a bad vehicle. Just was not attractive in the slightest until now

[@CrashBandiii]

Latest one isn't bad compared to other modern cars

[@Chag69420]

I'm still not fond of the split rear window.

[@VGMO17]

It worked for them in the first gen because you knew it was hybrid. Early adopters wanted to signal how environmentally conscious they were, just like Tesla early adopters. Once it hit mainstream, the broader market shifted the expectations and just wanted a good reliable cheap to run car

[@peacem8574]

Who would have thought that making reliable cars and not fucking your clients over results in profitability

[@reginald7214]

Well said

[@rodh1404]

To be fair, Toyota knows more than a little about f*king their clients over. They aren't as bad as some other companies, but they aren't saints either.

[@TheLongDon]

They still fuck their clients over, a Camry is 30k starting lmfao

[@1voluntaryist]

Toyota is still #1 for ICEVs. That will help them go bust last.

[@reginald7214]

@@1voluntaryist calm down fanboy. There's a million Tesla pump sites out there for you to spam on. Go away.

[@millabasset1710]

Toyotas just work and that’s valuable in this economy.

[@LogicallyAnswered]

Facts

[@walrusdestruction6845]

If you have to buy expensive at least make sure it's reliable. No other manufacturer is as liked by car mechanics. Other than maybe Lexus.

[@toyotaprius79]

Not anymore Nevermind over exaggerated battery failures, there's a worrying trend of excessive and extortionately expensive ABS failures in Toyota's hybrids.

[@1voluntaryist]

I drove a Camry V6 for 28 years because it was the best car, ALL AROUND. Now, that is no longer the case. I saw the Japanese superiority in the late '70s. I saw Tesla taking over in 2018. How? It's all in the data if you bother to research. Toyota had the best production techniques allowing constant improvement. Now, it's Tesla, thanks to Elon.

[@noahflare6825]

💯

[@MichalBrat]

Not all of them were against Toyota's approach. Mazda is the same, in fact, I was in their factory in Hiroshima some 5 years ago and I asked them about the EVs. They told me that from their perspective the time and technology was not right yet.

[@1voluntaryist]

Yes, and all the legacy makers agreed. Now, it's way, way past time. Their fatal mistake will be obvious within two years.

[@djdjdjshhsuss3941]

​@@1voluntaryistit has been "obvious within two years" for how many years now exactly?

[@leiflillandt1488]

​@@djdjdjshhsuss3941The technology takes quite huge steps forward every year, but today's cars are already better than corresponding ICE cars, at least the maintenance costs and running costs are lower. But they are not the first choice for everyone which you can see from Norway. About 10 % of the new car buyers choose ice cars, and I think it will stay at that level in developed countries. Of course poor people don't buy EVs, they don't even buy new cars!

[@michaeldendulk9225]

@@leiflillandt1488 I do think EV's are improving every year, that is a blessing and a curse at the same time. It means residual values will continue to be poor, till the technology truly matures and people that buy an EV today will not have defunct tech sitting on their driveway within months. I mean, in the last few weeks alone I've come accross several news articles about 3 different super duper new batteries that will change EV's forever... This is just one of the reasons I don't understand why the politicians have been pushing so hard for them. They should have let things happen naturally, at most continuing like they did early on, with some financial incentives for early adopters. As for the maintenance and running costs, I think it's waaaayyyy too early to make any kind of real statement on that. Yes, EV's need less regular maintenance, but if something does go wrong with them, the repair costs are a lot higher than ICE cars. I don't see this changing, as EV maintenance needs higher qualified individuals than ICE vehicles (you're working on high voltage systems at the end of the day), i.e. higher wages and parts are also more complex, so more expensive. Most countries are also subsidising EV charging at the moment one way or another, that will not last forever. For instance, in the UK, if EV charging was charged at the standard rate per kwH and taxed at the regular 21% VAT, the price gap per mile becomes a lot smaller. Add to that the fuel duties that will have to be moved on to EV's one way or another (only fools believe politicians won't find a way to get the money they are used to getting) and rising electricity prices and who knows what the landscape will look like in 10 years time. In fact, using public chargers in the UK, with their demonic prices, already pushes the price per mile for EV's higher than that of petrol cars. EV's have a time and a place, I just think political games are just doing the process more damage than good. It's going to take countries around 20 years on average to upgrade their grids to deal with all the EV charging... but most countries are forcing people into them within 10 years. This kind of thinking is just pure idiocy. They would fit perfectly well in an urban landscape for short commutes and shopping trips, for instance, improving air quaility in cities... were it not that it is in the cities where many people don't have the opportunity for home charging, a challenge that will need to be overcome. As for Norway, seemingly most people there have kept their old ICE cars and use them in cold weather and when driving to more remote parts of the country, the EV's are mostly used locally (not surprising, considering most of the population is concentrated round Oslo).

[@noseboop4354]

@@leiflillandt1488 Except today's cars are 30% more expensive, and interest rates are way up, and wages have not kept up. It doesn't matter how much better they are if people can't afford them. EVs dominate in Norway only because the government there gives you a subsidy of $30,000 to $40,000 for each EV you buy. And guess what? The government has all that cash thanks to its offshore oil platforms!

[@thoso1973]

Never underestimate the consumers attraction to a car brand that is affordable, reliable and offers excellent service from authorized dealerships worldwide.

[@dangrass]

exactly....Toyota is using their reputation to sell obsolete stuff as long as they can.

[@Olivia-W]

​​@@dangrass Obsolete? Well tested. Transportation does not have to push cutting edge technology. That's for R&D.

[@greyangelpilot]

Not to mention High Resale Value !

[@liquidsweg4858]

If only they cared about their mechanics

[@katjerouac]

toyota is affordable? 😂

[@dylanwhite6539]

“Nissan was slow to adopt EVs” they where one of if not the first sub 30k ev

[@GraveUypo]

but their leaf was a practical car. it wasn't bullshit luxury like current evs that are so expensive that no one can buy them

[@Trainboy1EJR]

That was only with the 8K government rebate, but a 60mile range, and a passively cooled battery that rapidly degraded, non-standard charger, I’ve only seen 3 leaf at this point in the wild. And 5 MiEV (Bloomington, il before Mitsubishi closed their plant there and haven’t seen any more since 2016). I’ve seen about 20 R1T and 2 R2, 3 Cybertruck, S,3,X,Y teslas everywhere, like 2 Kia/Hyundai all electric vehicles, and 5 mustang MachE. The Leaf is only okay at best and that’s only if you never leave the city you live in.

[@1voluntaryist]

@@GraveUypo The model 3 could have been purchased for $35K and has the least lifetime maintenance cost of any car. Charged at home, you save 80% on fuel.

[@blasiankxng]

yeah at their sub 30k ev was (and still is) a shit box on 4 wheels lmao

[@GGData]

Careful, this is a "logically answered" question lol. Don't expect much from this dude.

[@thoso1973]

It's not just regenerative breaking that charges the battery in a Toyota hybrid; it's also being charged by the petrol engine running or from going downhill with no speeder pedal applied.

[@Me_Caveman]

He said it could be charged by that alone. Not that it is charged only by regenerative braking...

[@jon1913]

This entire video is misinformed. He's ignoring the giant propaganda arm of the oil industry, overlooking the backlash against Tesla because of Elon Musks antics and not comparing apples to apples in the vehicle sector. Despite these things, the EV market has doubled over the past 3 years and is expected to grow another 25% this year.

[@OnionChoppingNinja]

there is no "special pedal" in a Toyota hybrid. It's called a break pedal.

[@OnionChoppingNinja]

@@jon1913 don't google kobalt mining or lithium mining. you're tree hugging heart can't handle the truth about how "eco friendly" your oversized RC car really is.

[@timothykeith1367]

Toyota hybrids are conservative - and very reliable. Heat recovery physics isn't adaptable to automobiles. But, Toyota's hybrid system works pretty good for how we use cars.

[@aluisious]

I got the Camry hybrid. Gets 41 mpg all the time, and it's a very smooth drive.

[@semirbeslija3271]

It is, it's called MGU- H in F1. But still expensive to make it work in auto industry .

[@DevouringKing]

And strangely Toyota is the only Brand that is intelligent enough to put Solar pannels on their roofs.

[@QuickChange919]

I got a Toyota camry in 2010 still going great

[@LogicallyAnswered]

Not surprised hahaha

[@1voluntaryist]

My first Camry V6 lasted 12 years. My second, a 2008, is much better, still going without problems. The EV on order will self-charge 40 miles/day with its PV panels. Beat that!

[@Tharakan141]

My first car was toyota avensis, recently upgraded to toyota corolla cross hybrid. My next car is still going to be a hybrid.

[@---ml4jd]

2010 is still like new

[@oxaile4021]

I sure as hell wouldn't be going great if i had to drive a Toyota for 14 years.

[@F_Around_and_find_out]

Toyota: Keep making gasoline cars because they knew not all people can afford EV. Also Toyota: Getting the best of both worlds by making hybrids. Toyota be winning for the foreseeable future.

[@sebastiangeorge7714]

Hybrid also have the failures of both worlds

[@PranavSinganapalli]

Hybrids are a bridge to a place we've already arrived at

[@oxaile4021]

Toyota knows people can't afford EVs. So they make inferior hybrids for the same price and and gaslight people into thinking it's better.

[@michalandrejmolnar3715]

They're losing Chinese market share fast because of their anti-EV stance.

[@GiantsOnTheHorizon]

I’m curious if anyone else wonders whether Elon Musk’s breakup with the Left - and the Left having been the primary supporter of EVs and Tesla - is one of the primary factors in the downturn.

[@recurse]

I've had a 2021 Prius Prime plugin hybrid since 2020. It's a wonderful little car and so cheap to operate. I plug it in to a regular outlet every night, and I full the (tiny) gas tank like maybe six times a year, maybe, depending on any road trips. I can do months without filing the tank, but when I need to do a lot of driving it has none of the downsides of a true EV.

[@toyotaprius79]

The Prime was one of Toyota's best cars on offer but tragically it was needlessly and stupidly compromised by executives. The initial Prime came only with 4 seats because it was supposed to be directed towards "true Prius drivers who want exclusivity", vulnerable and fragile LEDs at the corners of the bumpers, acrylic front bumper, carbon fibre rear hatch, and a rear independent suspension that forced the 8.8kWh pack on 4" stilts in the trunk. Excellent drug smuggling space tho

[@recurse]

@@toyotaprius79 I love mine, I feel by the time I got it they had gotten it right lol

[@annoyedok321]

@@toyotaprius79 My biggest problem with current EV's is they try to do everything and don't focus on what they do best. Be a short range commuter car. For me the issue isn't the Prime only coming with 4 seats, but that it didn't come with only 2. Rear leg room is the perfect place to put a battery.

[@cedric7751]

I filled my Prius’ gas tank only 4 times in 16 months of ownership. The low EV range is more than enough for daily commute, which is where cars accumulate most of their mileage. For the occasional long trip, you get your gas tank.

[@toyotaprius79]

@@annoyedok321 if you take a look at the original 27kWh Hyundai Ioniq, it shows plainly how poorly Toyota has had a grip on itself

[@jetteroheller]

Toyota knows what it’s doing.

[@burnttoast9890]

Yes , fighting against emission regulations is a good thing

[@user-kc1tf7zm3b]

Rubbish. Toyota, with the rest of legacy auto, will be left out to dry over the coming years when the half of all new cars sales are EVs. As soon as EVs with ultra fast 5 minute charging which gains 500km of range materialise, petrol and hybrid cars will instantly become pointless, worthless and obsolete. As for hydrogen cars, this is nothing more than a sad Japanese joke.

[@RunForPeace-hk1cu]

@@user-kc1tf7zm3b😂😂😂😂 you forgot this thing called physics and weight of batteries

[@jetteroheller]

@@RunForPeace-hk1cu it’s a cult.

[@Cornelius87]

​@@user-kc1tf7zm3bI can't tell if you're being sarcastic lol

[@MinoltaCamera]

The solution is what they do with Corolla: at city speeds works with EV motors, at route speeds works with fuel motor. The fuel motor recharge the EV battery. Also we can try to impruve even more the fuel and fuel engine, to be more efficient.

[@toyotaprius79]

Spoken like somebody who had never driven a Corolla hybrid long enough to see or be honest with its limitations 3 stop lights are enough to drain the miniscule NiMH battery and then it idles +1200rpm

[@robertulrich3964]

Using gas to recharge a battery is less efficient than just using gas in the first place. The only good thing would be regenerative braking a little bit.

[@1voluntaryist]

Hybrids were the least efficient fuelwise. They sold out of fear, e.g., range anxiety. That is gone, and Toyota will soon follow.

[@robertulrich3964]

@@1voluntaryist im fearful of the hybrid battery replacement cost after 7 years. I think gas only is still the cheapest in terms of maintenance and repair cost. only thing i had to buy for my car of 7 years was a new battery...

[@tommyking626]

​@@robertulrich3964 try 15 years thats when my hybrid battery finally give up (not enough range to do anything) and the replacement is not that expensive

[@qfurgie]

all this talk about EVs and ICEs but nothing about public transportation 😔

[@fireclaw90a51]

Great point

[@beanapprentice1687]

Yep. North America is car brained. Battery-electric busses and electric rail are great things.

[@billf4429]

That's one good point because all talk about saving the environment in terms of green house gas, but why keep building cars and more cars.

[@hatchet157]

​@beanapprentice1687 canada here we just bought 30 electric buses, not 4 years ago over half are complete broken and have been for over a year the other half are on light duty since they cant do most routes and on top of all that they still need diesel heaters to produce heat which was a extra 200k cost to the tax payer. Electric public transit atleast lithuim is not the way to go

[@beanapprentice1687]

@@hatchet157 which province do you live in? I also live in Canada (Quebec) and my city's transit provider bought 25 electric busses from New Flyer 3 or 4 years ago, as well as a few more from Novabus years before that, and as far am I'm aware they have had zero breakdown issues. I see them driving around the city regularly, even on the hottest summer days and coldest winter ones. We also have some electric school busses that a few schools bought 2 years ago and I see them every day without fail. And yea, all these busses do have diesel heaters to keep warm on the really cold winter days, but so what? They consume like 1 tenth of the fuel that a diesel bus burns, and they are only activated for a few months out of the year.

[@Morwarre]

I am and have been behind Toyota on their refusal to go fully electric... It feel like it was too early to fully adopt it.

[@1voluntaryist]

Feelings are not facts! When the legacy makers "feel it" they will be too late. It was "too early' until it was "too late".

[@user-kc1tf7zm3b]

Rubbish. Toyota, with the rest of legacy auto, will be left out to dry over the coming years when the half of all new cars sales are EVs. As soon as EVs with ultra fast 5 minute charging which gains 500km of range materialise, petrol and hybrid cars will instantly become pointless, worthless and obsolete. As for hydrogen cars, this is nothing more than a sad Japanese joke.

[@c0rnichon]

The climate does not negotiate though. Sure, electric cars aren't perfect but if everybody waited until a technology fully matured we'd never move on from the 1960s. Also, going fully electric gave BYD and other Chinese manufacturers an edge over the competition. They went from ridiculed underdog to possible industry leaders within just a few years. Time will tell whether Toyota was super smart or whether they'll be struggling to catch up in five or ten years.

[@Morwarre]

@@c0rnichon Its all business at the end of the day... Each decision is a gamble, the new school(EVs) might just crush old school. Only time will let us know!

[@Nope_handlesaretrash]

​@@user-kc1tf7zm3b2 more weeks chief

[@scottyomcbrian]

Anyone knowledgeable in cars was skeptical about the EV industry and its subsidization. Is it that far-fetched that Toyota is/was too? Toyota has an impeccable record for reliability and build quality, one they've maintained for literal decades now. I am pretty confident saying Toyota wont put their name on something they dont think is quality. And they're literally the 2nd largest automated in the world. Perhaps they know a thing or 2 about making and selling cars?

[@peglor]

Toyota of late seem to have started making some of the same 'shareholder value' related decisions that have enshitified just about every industry where large corporations play unfortunately. I'd trust a 5-10 year old Toyota to be more reliable than their current models 😞. Look for reports of the issue they've had with literal wheels falling off their new cars.

[@dangrass]

Toyota is a debt-ridden company that's facing an existential crisis. That's all this is.

[@MegaBoolaBoola]

Toyota is the largest automaker in the world again, retaking the lead from Volkswagen. Toyota sold 11.2 million units last year.

[@busetgadapet]

toyota is overly overpriced while selling old tech, what they do is even worse than apple

[@MegaBoolaBoola]

@@busetgadapet Apple just passed Samsung to take the #1 spot, and Toyota just passed Volkswagen to take the #1 spot. The market has spoken.

[@tullochgorum6323]

Toyota are playing smart and waiting for the EV industry to mature. They have an innovative solid-state battery in the works that will put them in a strong position in the next 2-3 years. Plus the developing world doesn't have the infrastructure for EVs and will be relying on ICE for some time to come, so a full retreat from ICE manufacture makes no sense at all.

[@CrashBandiii]

I find it comical how the media puts tesla on this high horse while companies left and right are overtaking them in tech

[@Sacto1654]

Given the varying quality of charging stations (even Tesla Superchargers), I'll stick with a real Toyota hybrid. At least with a hybrid, you can still use the mature, still widely available refueling infrastructure now in place.

[@tullochgorum6323]

@@Sacto1654 Agreed. The most practical and green use for EVs is affordable little city cars with small batteries for people with access to home recharging. Not too much embedded CO2 in their manufacture, and they will help clean up urban air quality. For outside the city - with longer journeys and thin recharging infrastructure - an efficient hybrid makes the most sense, as you say. But what the EV industry is actually giving us is high end performance cars and bloated 3 tonne SUVs and trucks aimed at the open road. These make no sense at all - for the user or for the environment. The whole cult seems to have lost any sense of direction.

[@michalfaraday8135]

Toyota solid state is about as likely as Tesla having a robotaxi this year :-) They have been promising it for a decade now and it´s nowhere to be seen. The developing world doesn´t have a lot of infrastructure ... period. Not for EVs or gasoline vehicles. They also mostly don´t have oil or money to buy a car. Bikes and scooters are very popular. What they do have is a lot of sunshine, free space for wind power, rivers for hydro dams. And just like they skipped phone lines and went directly to cell phones, they might go directly to EVs if that´s what will be more affordable. When BYD entered Brazil BEV market share increased 7x. We´ll see but developing countries are unlikely to save a legacy OEM ICE sales.

[@tullochgorum6323]

@@michalfaraday8135 Toyota have prototype solid state batteries on the road - so it's more than just hype. The issue is mass production at an economic rate. They are claiming they will crack this in the next couple of years - they already have the first models announced. They will initially be released in hybrids, as the cells will be expensive so this is more economically viable. But they claim they will be producing pure solid state EV power trains a year or two later. Is this real? We'll just have to wait and see. Tesla are having a nightmare with their new CyberTruck powerpack - and that's much less radical than a solid state cell. TL/DR: they exist, but they are challenging to manufacture.

[@frankrusso5351]

You mean to tell me that a struggling economy and massive layoffs had no factor on the drop of EV sales and why people are opting for cheaper cars?

[@michaeldendulk9225]

You forgot many countries ending EV subsidies, which was one of the main driving factors to buy an EV, especially for business leases...

[@brkctrl]

Not just cheaper, more reliable too. People want to drive cars until the wheels fall off and with Toyotas, that’s at least few thousand miles.

[@jacobcarlson4010]

@@michaeldendulk9225: Not for me.I bought my LEAF used, and at the time there was no subsidy for used vehicles; only brand-new.

[@jacobcarlson4010]

@@brkctrl: Hilariously, my 2016 Nissan LEAF has outlived every ICE vehicle I’ve ever owned put together. Everything factory original except the lower control arms (“EVs can’t drive off-road? Hold my beer and watch this shit.”)

[@michaeldendulk9225]

@@jacobcarlson4010 not against the principles of EV's and for some people, they make perfect sense... for others... they don't. Would just like governments to take their mits off the situation and let the market establish itself naturally. For me, they are borderline, living rurally. I'd need one with a decent range, at a non-stupid price. 200 miles would be the absolute minimum, 300 miles would be better, so for now, I think my next car will be a hyrid. Maybe by the time that one is done, EV prices will have come down to reality and batteries will have improved.

[@tomhoots]

GEEZ, that's a lot of talking without saying much at all. Toyota is a rare car company that has decided to SELL CARS. You don't sell cars by pushing horrifyingly unreliable junk off on your customers. You don't sell cars that you can't build in volume -- which is the case of battery electric vehicles these days, at least for most manufacturers. Meanwhile, look at Japan -- yes, they have no national electricity generation capability, without importing fossil fuels. Even here in the US, "if everyone starts charging battery electric vehicles all night overnight every night," the country will have to generate MUCH MORE electricity than it currently does. So, how can it scale up its electricity production? Look around, and "wind and solar" still make up a pittance of electricity generation in the US. Are we building new hydroelectric and nuclear production? Of course not. What's left? Well, like China and some other countries, the US has PLENTY OF COAL. Enough coal to generate all of the electricity the country will ever need, at least over several lifetimes. And quite a lot of natural gas, as well. "Need more electricity?" You'll get it by burning more fossil fuels. Trying to save humanity from extinction with your battery electric vehicle? That's NOT going to happen. But back to Japan -- "charging battery electric vehicles" requires some kind of charging infrastructure that will allow vehicles to "plug in" over hours or even days, to get full charges. Where does the vast majority of the Japanese population live? In very high-density, high-rise apartments. Just like in the US, you have to be OUT OF YOUR FREAKING MIND if you think millions of "renters" and apartment dwellers and such folks will want to deal with the daily nightmare of just charging their vehicles. And so on. Toyota simply has paid attention to ACTUAL REALITY, which Tesla, I suppose, is finally getting bashed upside its stupid head with. To sell cars, Toyota knows it needs to make vehicles "for the masses." And nobody can do that with battery electric vehicles, perhaps with the exception of China. But that's another story, entirely.

[@gsonz172]

Exactly. Customers of brands like BMW lease their cars for 3 or 4 years and then they get the next one, who cares if the car breaks down after 6 years? But Toyotas are meant to be kept for a long time and then can still be sold for quite some money.

[@MrDadyD]

Well... its seems they where correct. Also, who the hell wants to have a car that loses half of its range as soon as its to cold? Or wait 20-30 mins charging while you are on the road?

[@Cornelius87]

That's the bottom line, regardless of what people say the ice vehicle is still a better product today. Countries where EVs have taken off are places where gasoline, taxes and the cost to register ice vehicles are so high that people are willing to compromise with an EV and end up liking them.

[@AbidAli-bo8sv]

​@@Cornelius87EV adoption is high in 🇳🇴 who wants to turn to EVs for all of their vehicles and continue selling oil to others to power gasoline cars, great.

[@ScrapKing73]

Any criticism Toyota has ever levelled against battery electric cars (BEVs) goes many multiples more for hydrogen. Not enough infrastructure for BEVs? Hydrogen is far, far worse. And many people can and do add their own infrastructure for BEVs at your home, or have their employer do so at their work. But good luck getting hydrogen refilling at home/work! I let my staff charge their BEVs at work, and even regular wall outlet charging adds up over an 8 hour workday.

[@christiandisch8147]

Indeed it's very funny that people can argue against EVs with lacking infrastructure but then tout hydrogen as a viable alternative in the same sentence

[@RedNazFM]

⁠@@christiandisch8147in theory, hydrogen powered vehicles would be great but in practice…

[@christiandisch8147]

@@RedNazFM in theory, except for making, transporting and storing the hydrogen.

[@octagonPerfectionist]

the prius is probably gonna go down in history as one of the greatest cars ever made. unbelievably reliable, efficient and utilitarian.

[@jevgeniardassov]

Using that logic Tesla was very late to the party as well. First electric car was in 1854, made by a Scotsman, can’t remember the name. Benz was almost 40 years later with his car. Ferdinand Porsche raced his EV in 1912 if I recall correctly.

[@yozo4ru]

Toyota pulling a boss move, while the entire market thinks they zoom passed them.

[@XieRH1988]

Hydrogen is arguably even harder to set up a refuelling infrastructure for compared to EVs. Whatever arguments there are about the issue with charging infrastructure is going to be an even worse issue to deal with for hydrogen refuelling. At least if it were applied to something else like the aviation sector, you’d have much fewer places where you need to build the infrastructure but for cars, it would be one heck of an uphill battle.

[@elenabob4953]

No it is not because they can take advantage of the GPL infrastructure and that is the reason why Europe invests billions to update and expand that infrastructure.

[@michaeldendulk9225]

What elen said. The refueling infrastructure for hydrogen could mostly make use of what's there already, the problem/challenge is getting hydrogen production down to a point where it is affordable for the masses and making the energy balance more efficient. They believe they can get there on paper, but how long will it take to get there in the real world?

[@dangrass]

hydrogen is nothing but a diversionary tactic. Shiny object...nothing more.

[@JefferySmiley]

"Taking a advantage of what's there" is the approach for any energy source. Ethanol, hydrogen, and of course EV charging. I'm assuming you are referring to the locations of gasoline fueling stations. The production and dispensing of hydrogen is far harder than gasoline or electric.

[@mylesgray3470]

There is should be no debate on this. Hydrogen is stored at 10,000 psi. This is very challenging and very expensive to do.

[@Tootongtaoako]

EVs are on the average 10,000 dollars more expensive than a gasoline car. Most people right now are having problems putting food on the table.

[@FoodFighter46]

The maintenance cost. toyota was famous for not using li-ion battery in past. Many so-called journalists critisized them. After 10 years, old prius users are thanking this weird desicion to not use li-ion. Its way, way cheaper to replace and maintain them

[@moxy4926]

Just bought a Corolla hybrid. It was 2000 more than the non hybrid but also came with aluminum rims. Totally worth the upgrade.

[@staannoe]

As a citizen of Norway that is a bit ahead of the curve, I’ve relied on a plug-in hybrid (PHEV)for four years and are now on my fifth with a BEV. Hybrids seems like a good idea on paper, but is sort of a clunky concept in reality. They act as CVT transmission cars, which also is a concept that is good on paper, but never caught on. They have no towing capacity. They are technically complex, thus requiring maintenance. Complexity will lead to lesser reliability down the road (Prius has a good track record though). Norway had its boom in PHEV, but today the market for these cars is almost totally gone. BEV is clearly the better choice if you have the ability to charge at home.

[@ryanyoder7573]

I have a PHEV and love it. I charge it at home but drove it 600 miles yesterday and used gas. The charging infrastructure isn’t good in the US yet but gas stations are everywhere.

[@elenabob4953]

A BEV who's range decreases radically in cold conditions isn't quite ideal and the EV bus debacle proved that 10 times fold also if we look through environmental lens you can't say it helps against climate change because the petrol consumption didn't decreased.

[@oxaile4021]

This pretty much. PHEVs are great on paper but horrible in reality. I was driving a relatives BMW X3 PHEV for a 320km roadtrip recently and it just felt horrible. It had all the downsides of ICE like the horrible racket the engine makes and slow downshifting, unless you're in sport mode in which the racket is amplified through speakers for some reason(?). At the end the car showed that we had done 50km using only electricity and all i could think about was how my own EV could have done the whole trip with only electricity.

[@nyxline]

Who Cares About Norway,In the US EV=HIV Higher Insurance Rate,Have to find a charging Station,Tires wear Out Fast, Batteries Dies In Cold Weather,If someone Flies to Las Vegas they'll rent a gas car No worries about charging and enjoy,EV Belongs in a Junkyard or Norway or Africa or China Only 🤠

[@TomLawlor-iq6gm]

I had a wonderful visit to Norway a few years ago and was well impressed with how many EV's I saw. And, almost zero "monster" pick-ups. But, would you please tell (most), of us in NA how Norway's tax structure works in regards to ICE cars. I know how but I dare not say it here in fear of the abuse I'd suffer by suggesting that as a way to encourage EV adoption.

[@lloydguenther6102]

Drive my C-HR for 12 hours and had 1/4 tank left. No hours long stops to recharge.

[@ravindrapersaud7608]

Your comparing a 1% situation. Most ppl will never drive 12hrs daily on average. In fact most ppl will probably never drive 12hrs straight. Even if they did it probably 1 or 2 times a year. There is nothing wrong with evs for daily driving. I admit you probably should have a house and can afford to charge it fast. It's for a different market. Just because it don't work in your case does not mean it is not good for other ppl. I quite enjoy my ev and I have no issues with charging at all even with the base 120v charging!

[@lloydguenther6102]

@@ravindrapersaud7608 What average? Once is enough. 3-5 hours is not unusual. How about a $15-39K battery replacement? 2:?hour stop to charge!

[@ravindrapersaud7608]

@@lloydguenther6102 well if your driving 3-5hrs kn your daily commute then you'll blow through cars regardless. The national average miles per yr is around 12k. With that logic you would not need a battery replacement until 10-15 years. I ain't trying to argue that evs are better, of course they are not. But it's not something entirely bad. I have had gas and evs and both have worked for me. I drive about 2hrs per day on average with no issues at all.

[@lloydguenther6102]

@@ravindrapersaud7608 Are you for real? You never go anywhere? Visit anyone? Go on vacation? Stop this idiocy already.

[@ravindrapersaud7608]

@@lloydguenther6102 my guy you are being completely ignorant to the fact that evs are not an issue for some people. Your basing your ideas on a small percentage of cases. I guess you buy a car based on how many vacations you take with it. You should really look up some numbers before saying stuff man. I gave you actually statistics yet you still cannot comprehend and process it in a rational way. That's wild man

[@GregConquest]

Good overview, thank you. One thing about sources for hydrogen, Japan has been developing a small, self-contained nuclear reactor that produces both heat for electricity or mechanical power -- AND substantial amounts of hydrogen: HTTR or HTGR. The emissions are heat, oxygen, and "pink" hydrogen. They seem to be making good progress for a 2028-35 commercial launch.

[@uelld.8371]

Too many company were trying to monopolize the charging station without even bother fixing the charging issue (kinda like fossil fuel companies today). Back then before the ev were a thing, I remember that there was some charger that were free to charge their vehicles as some sort of promotion campaign around the world.

[@yellowajah]

"the second worst nuclear disaster ever" ...the second worst disaster consisting of 1 death due to botched evacuation, and what? 30km radius exclusion zone? all that is a helluva cheap price to pay for all the energy it generated, considering the alternatives usually consist mostly of coal.

[@duncanidaho9153]

Sure - they barely noticed it.

[@GrahamCStrouse]

And Japan’s gone back to us in nuclear power.

[@gabrielnascimento1021]

There's another one

[@strandkorbst9643]

You mean the one that almost sent a cloud of nuclear fallout over Tokyo?

[@yellowajah]

​@@strandkorbst9643no, I'm talking about the one that happened at fukushima.

[@dci-WatchTutorials]

"And things are so unstable that Japan often has to ask their citizens to conserve energy to avoid blackouts." This statement at 3:22 is simply not true. A hallucination on his part. We in Japan never have blackouts, or hear any particular plea to conserve energy. But unfortunately we do burn too much coal and definitely need to get off fossil fuels.

[@chrissmith2114]

Avoid renewables if you want Japanese economy to thrive, while the west kills itself with EV and net zero.

[@yo2trader539]

災害時の停電は結構あるよ。

[@aidan9411]

Nuclear round 2, this time we learned from the past

[@irvinesunday1603]

Great video and really great edits. A lot of improvements in this channel. Kudos!

[@kdegraa]

We are buying a Toyota RAV4 hybrid. It should suit our needs including towing. The way Toyota has hybrid as a reasonably priced option when purchasing a car has been the correct strategy. The two main reasons to buy a Toyota hybrid are: 1. Fuel economy 2. Reliability Toyota hybrids do achieve excellent fuel economy. Toyota hybrids are very reliable primarily because their engines do not require a lot of anti pollution measures and are not stressed because of the electric motor that works when the most work is needed, moving the car from a standing start,

[@nmoharo829]

Another big thing is in Japan, the way housing and apartments are designed are not good for EVs. Houses are small with cars often outside, and accounting for the large apartment population, there is no good charging infrastructure. Hydrogen is Japan's best bet, but they still need to overcome the infrastructure issue and cost

[@jeffsenecal4168]

Or here. I live in the Hood. No chargers in the Hood. There are hoods like this all across America.

[@aluisious]

Hydrogen is bullshit. The electricity used to make clean hydrogen is better used charging batteries, and it's very difficult to handle pressurized or cryogenic hydrogen. It's far more difficult than gasoline. Hydrogen costs $30/kg in California and people are abandoning their Mirais because they cost 10 times more to fuel than a gas car or EV.

[@marmedalmond9958]

@@jeffsenecal4168 China did services where your batteries get replaced

[@nmoharo829]

@@marmedalmond9958 I wanted to suggest the idea to Elon Musk a long time ago before I found out that Tesla actually tried that before but it failed because Americans didn’t like the idea of not owning the battery

[@marmedalmond9958]

@@nmoharo829 you just buy a new battery. That's it

[@OnsiteOneSolutions]

"Was Toyota Right About the U.S. EV Market All Along?" Fixed the title. Good video and all info is accurate but only applies to the U.S. market. It's a completely different story overseas, like in China and many European countries where EVs sales have surpassed 50% of all sales, and BYD is beating Tesla in global EVs sales and even manufacturing. The U.S. EV market does not represent the world, especially since it's among those who are far behind in EV adoption and desperately playing catch up.

[@genius_solver_curious_question]

...

[@GraveUypo]

fun fact: europe also doesn't represent the world. EVs aren't a thing at all in south america. there are some but they're rare. byd just stabilishing itself here as EV market leader, but i don't think they're doing that good. i mean, the EV market shot up by 150% since they came, but there are cars models that alone sell more than all EVs combined here. hybrids, on the other hand, are everywhere now. pretty sure it's a similar situation in australia and japan, iirc.

[@gamesong6600]

Agreed. Even in India EVs- 2/3/4 wheelers are in demand. People are using them for everyday commute of 40-80km and charging them at home.

[@TheLongDon]

The US market is the only one that matters. China is a third world country and Europe purposefully strangles it's car market

[@tommyking626]

Fun fact asia outside china also prefer hybrids. Especially south east asia. There's no electric infrastructure there excepr big cities

[@adi1234567892]

Great editing and such a detailed video. You’re seriously underrated

[@siriusblack5187]

Is the voiceover done by a different person than the one shown in the videos ?

[@antimatter7629]

If toyota went all ev today they would have day 1 adoption, thats how reliable their name is, and how loyal their userbase is

[@1voluntaryist]

You are probably correct, except they are so far behind the EV technology they lose heavily on every sale, and they are deep in debt. "Time is not on their side".

[@andresg4690]

@@1voluntaryist "They are deep in debt"... Toyota has 237B+ net assets

[@burnttoast9890]

Yeah right , they would instantly fail. BZ4X was the worst EV except the Fisker ocean, everyone agrees

[@jemima_brown]

​@@burnttoast9890Norway disagrees with your comment. BZ4X was the fourth best selling EV there in 2023; third best selling EV there for 2024/Q1. ❤

[@mich8411]

Doesn't mean it was a success because Norway was buying, Toyota struggled with making EV's work they are terrible at it, they might be good at building quality cars but in an EV there are more important things like Batteries, charging infra and Softwares ​@@jemima_brown

[@Jaigarful]

Eh, I don't think you can really say that Japan's national interest in hydrogen is why Toyota push against EVs. Sure, the motives are there, but its still a leap when they gave plenty of reasons why EV adoption is a problem (infrastructure not being there is a huge one).

[@nkrktn]

I truly appreciate how unbiased and deep is your analysis in these videos. Keep creating!

[@DementedView]

From my understanding Toyota is finishing up their research on their own battery tech. I cant blame them the current lithium based batteries aren't sustainable with the amount of cars you need to manufacture to fill the demand, its better to use them for hybrid vehicles

[@shadowninja6689]

The Toyota Prius is NOT AN EV like you imply at 3:40, its a hybrid that can't be plugged into an outlet and charged, hence it doesn't effect their power grid at all, if anything it helps it because it needs less gasoline. Also for 12:00 EV's are actually NOT new technology either, they're also over 100 years old. They used to be marketed heavily to women due to how much quieter they were and how they were a good daily commuter vehicle to drive around town for stuff like getting groceries/etc.

[@toyotaprius79]

Dealerships love to misconstrue and advertise fickle lies.

[@1voluntaryist]

@@toyotaprius79 And Toyota spends 100s of millions attacking EVs, spreading lies, second only to Big Oil.

[@rndydunn]

I generally like this channel's videos but I couldn't make it through this one after it kept talking about the Prius affecting Japan's electric grid. They really need to do some research on the difference between hybrids and plug-in hybrids. They seem to think that the all hybrids are plug in, while Toyota didn't come out with a plug in version of the Prius until 15 years after it's launch.

[@flagmichael]

The classic Prius is as you describe, but there are plug-in versions that only charge the hybrid battery and a version ("Prime") that is an EV with gasoline backup.

[@duncanidaho9153]

Hah - see you at the traffic lights (in the mirror).

[@jagadishgospat2548]

To me it seems like hybrids are easiest way people can get used to EVs(understanding the benefits). While also giving the companies like tesla time to develop and refine the tech as well as the infrastructure.

[@KLondike5]

I bought a used hybrid SUV 7 years ago for delivery work. I was nervous at first about potential repair costs. Biggest issue most people had in early versions is if the coolant pump fails for the electronics. But that has been super reliable and I pay a lot of attention to the sound of it. If I can't hear the coolant pump whine, I'll know to immediately have it fixed. The transmission is also an eCVT which is also super reliable. Gets me over 30 mpg & stays in electric mode only when I've locked it & running packages. But I've worn out the suspension twice as I would on any vehicle with a lot of miles.

[@GraveUypo]

I just don't think EVs are ready to be mainstream. the extra weight simply does not work in the real world. sure they can put out massive power to compensate, but parking garages aren't designed to enough margin to bear the extra load, roads aren't designed for their weight, guardrails aren't designed for their weight, they are too fast and cause accidents for no reason, new drivers can't cope with them, they are more dangerous in collisions, their risk of spontaneous combustion require impractical safety measures, etc etc. They just don't fit with the world we have in high numbers, and i don't think the investment to adapt to them is worth it. they need to slim down.

[@jagadishgospat2548]

@@GraveUypo you do make a good point but as with anything, things take time. Like it did with steam engines and combustion engines it's always impractical at first ,then it's unfeasible then it's a competing offer, finally it becomes a better choice. It's not obvious to us because these things usually don't happen in the human time scales. Trust me, we need EVs, even if not for the carbon emissions we still need it for the fact that it uses renewable energy (unlike fossil fuels), we will make it fit into our worlds for that fact, but it will take time.

[@joshuabaker6452]

@@jagadishgospat2548 Your analogy is flawed. EVs are not some brand new tech, barely climbing out of its infancy. EVs were around at the very beginning of the automobile and were blown out of the water by gas cars. Battery tech is also not some brand new thing. We discovered chemical batteries in the 1850s. after over 150 years of battery tech advancement we got a battery that could just barely be good enough for ideologically driven buyers to accept them. We have been trying to figure out battery recycling for decades and yet after all that we are still only recycling a tiny fraction of them. Every single tech related to EVs is an already mature technology where huge leaps are very unlikely, small incremental gains are somewhat common, and stagnation is the norm.

[@jagadishgospat2548]

@@joshuabaker6452 sorry I got lazy and chat gpt'ed the whole things here it is: "Let's not overlook the incredible strides electric vehicles have made. With recent breakthroughs in battery tech, charging infrastructure, and vehicle design, EVs are becoming a serious contender against gas cars. Plus, there's a growing demand for EVs, and both automakers and governments are investing heavily in electrification. Ignoring this momentum means missing out on the potential for cleaner transportation solutions and the broader transition towards sustainability. Let's focus on the future and the potential for game-changing innovations in transportation. Embracing electric vehicles and supporting their continued development is key to shaping a greener, more sustainable future." Gas took over the early market because oil was abundant back then and cheap. Now we know better that it's limited and poisons the air. Also tell me what it feels like to prefer a technology that has 20% fuel efficiency? Over something that has 90% and isn't gonna run out of or suffocate us. I'd love to hear how much potential gas has in the future. Btw I don't know why I mentioned gas in this argument, maybe because you don't choose electric so you must be a petrol man so ignore it if you can.

[@Jane306]

My dad has been using his toyota for more than 12 years now. Still working good. Tho the fuel consuming is getting worse now, but everything still working good. AC still cool. Ive been using my suzuki for 5 years now n only replaced battery and tires until now. Japanese car brands r very durable.

[@darter9000]

Most folks I talk to that has EVs are very much not big road trippers. I look at the mountains and hills around me and I’m pretty sure the terrain here will speed up power drain. I would not dare daytrip across the Cascades in an EV

[@nikolaikostka7632]

I day trip across the cascades in a Chevy bolt on a frequent basis. I live on a mountain in the cascades. The range goes down quite a bit going uphill with regen braking going down the mountain pass it gives me a lot more range and I usually stop for food and bathroom for like 15 minutes of charge to get back. You don’t have to stand at a pump and wait you can plug in and go do something you need to do anyway and come back. My car charges way slower than other EV’s but it still works very well and was the cheapest nicest car I could get.

[@Alex-ni2ir]

This is a poorly researched video. Your EV comparison fails to even mention any Chinese brand, nevermind the other established auto manufacturers. Instead you picked Lucid and Rivian, the former being a luxury car maker and the latter not well established at all with poor sales. No mention of korean or european EV auto makers either, yet you conclude that toyota have somehow purposefully evaded the risk of EVs? Thats a stretch, in china the EV market is booming. Hydrogen seems unappealing and lost.

[@literallyasneeze2135]

China is China. We're taking about the world as a whole. I see your point though, China should have been included in the research.

[@mike-A299]

He literally named BYD...

[@Alex-ni2ir]

​@@mike-A299yes, in the context of plug in hybrids. Not exclusively EVs.

[@NibanoTugano]

Chinese car companies have the government giving them money so they don't count

[@dashmeetsingh9679]

EV sales are declining. China isnt a free market.

[@wesbishop3790]

Our family has owned 5 Prius and one Camry Hybrid in the last 15 years. Toyota Hybrid technology is second to none. My last Prius was the 2017 Prius Prime Premium which I now view in hindsight as our training wheels to go fully electric. We now have two EVs and are no longer dependent on gas or oil. Loving the transition everyday and while range anxiety was/is a real thing, it has dissipated over time as we adapt to a new way of life. I think the fact that hybrid sales are up so much is an indicator that people ARE READY for EVs....once they take off the training wheels. Will we see a true Toyota EV in the near future? (The current one is actually a Subaru) .....I think we will.

[@user-xp4of2vu4r]

Thanks. Yes, who really believes we can operate autos with the same thing that runs our Flashlights. I'm hopping for further development of Fuel Cells that just makes a lot of sense as there several potential fuels that can work and do entail the overall production and recharge complexity that EV's demand.

[@christiandisch8147]

Oh boy the demand of a hydrogen based fuel infrastructure isn't to be underestimated either!

[@themlgbrosftw4960]

shout out to picking the tesla screenshot on the day of the actual bottom in order to paint a narative, way to go dude

[@xTRUExiNsANiTYx]

Yeah because Tesla sucks, nerd

[@threelowlys]

Too much unnecessary info to fill content, very slow to get to the point...

[@VulcanGunner]

Thanks for the professional presentation.

[@zangarkhan]

Toyota has a lot of experience with EV in heavy equipment, so naturally they knew the true cost of producing and EV. Engnery diversity and active management is where most the efficacities are. If Li-ion recycling and recovery chain becomes standard EVs will have the best product life-cycle, you could have you commuter EV for 300k+ miles easy. Hydrogen like EV needs and expensive infrastructure and actually more expensive than getting a 220V NEMA 14-30 installed residentially. I think we seeing things settle down and no one winner in the market.

[@shiniesglitters5424]

ALL the Japanese automakers know what they are doing. Their cars are so efficient and well calibrated. I would also like to add, EVS will not be viable for everyone until we start running on nuclear power. Right now China and India a little are the only countries pushing Nuclear power. No country in the world has the power grid for everyone to run EVs. Right now I think for the U.S. its 25% as in the power grid can only handle 25% of people using EVs.

[@dangrass]

the world is rapidly transitioning to sustainable energy using solar and wind. This is the reality. Nuclear makes no economic sense.

[@canoai]

So true. Also from an envirmental standpoint there is no reason to manifacture EV cars until the generated electricity is green. They are doing more harm than good at the moment

[@canoai]

İmagine you think you are helping the envirement by using an EV but the electricity is actually powered by coal, 10 times more harmful and much less eficient than a standard car. And when you battery dies it will be in a dump somewhere to harm the envirement until your grand childeren are born

[@jschudel777]

I think you overlook the fact that early Prius models ran on petrol exclusively but were able to increase distance per liter to about double the standard efficiency then. Toyotas early hybrids were not meant to run on electricity, but to improve efficiency.

[@1voluntaryist]

You need to take a physics course on "conservation of energy" and energy losses with every conversion. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!

[@stefanpredl6849]

@@1voluntaryist the trick is the ContinousVeribleTransmision dont let the ICE run when its at the worst and take it where its best at

[@1voluntaryist]

@@stefanpredl6849 Or, wait for the Aptera, directly refuel by sunlight, 40miles/day. If needed, the battery lasts 3 x longer than a Tesla's because of a paradigm shift in efficiency, drag .135, weight 2200 lbs.

[@doujinflip]

I’m wondering if an upcoming hybrid will be a gasoline-electric type, where it’s moved only through electric motors and the gas is only burned to charge the battery. This is how modern ships and trains are powered nowadays.

[@timothykeith1367]

That type of system is not used because of efficiency but to reduce mechanical complexity and maintenance. The Toyota system uses the mechanical advantage of the gasoline motor, and the strengths of electric motors at low speeds. Electric motors have tremendous torque at low speeds whereas gasoline engines need inefficient geared drive at low speed.

[@KLondike5]

That's almost how the Chevy Volt operates. They stopped making them 5 years ago. Most customers and dealers found them confusing to describe. I think there is technically one possible transmission mode to directly connect the gas motor to the wheels at highway speeds, but most of the time the wheels are electrically driven.

[@0bzen22]

It's not a new concept. Honda's system works like that, the petrol engine charging the battery, with an electric motor driving the wheels, and with the petrol engine taking over the wheels directly at highway speeds. Nissan's system is basically an EV, with an ICE used to only recharging the battery. Toyota's SynergyDrive system is more complicated. They require a specific method of driving to get the most out of it, Honda's is easier to drive efficiently, Nissan's, although looks good on paper, isn't as efficient as either. Maybe it's just how they implemented things.

[@moarpwr4414]

This will be the best option IMO for vehicles that tow, such as the forthcoming Ram Charger. The Volt was ahead of its time and limited by the battery size. To have a battery such as what may be in the Ram Charger, possibly near 200 miles on battery alone. It can be used as an EV most of the time, and only rely on the generator when needed on roadtrips or towing. With that being said, the generator engine should be diesel as the fuel is more stable and won’t break down as quickly as gas. It would be more reliable and have less issues I believe being diesel rather than gasoline in the long run.

[@stefanpredl6849]

thats what its already doing in a prius anyways it just switches to charging and power to wheel if you go faster than the electric motor would be efficient enough whit the energy converted from the ice

[@loungelizard836]

Methane Hydrate is CH4 (natural gas) NOT HYDROGEN... it must be converted to H2 by an inefficient process. Far better to burn the methane as a fuel itself (as compressed methane (CNG) or LNG). Especially if you live on an island where you don't have any oil. Methane is cleaner and Japan doesn't really need to worry much about NOx, the only downside to burning methane.

[@cuve_ae]

Just bought a base 2023 Prius. As a first time Toyota owner I’ve been impressed with the quality and reliability.

[@dangrass]

I bought a 2016 Prius. Had far more problems than with my 2019 Tesla. If you want quality and reliability highly complex vehicles are far more likely to experience problems that inherently simpler vehicles. Hybvds are truly Rube Goldberg creations.

[@cuve_ae]

@@dangrass you’re comparing 3 years of tech advancements lol but yeah man enjoy your Tesla while it last. Stocks ain’t looking good, product ain’t pushing, & we all know that Tesla has the worst quality. 5/8th panel gaps, infrastructure that don’t exist, & layoffs ain’t painting the picture you tryna make.

[@kiefershanks4172]

I have a 2017 Prius and it has been completely problem free so far.

[@sangmoon2464]

The problem with hybrids is that along with getting the a mix of both worlds, you also get the worst of both worlds in terms of what can go wrong.

[@danielking2944]

The bad press for EV fires is mainly PHEVs.Only thing worse is fossil fuel car fire risk.

[@flagmichael]

My 23 years experience with Toyota hybrids has been the opposite: they are by far the most reliable vehicles we have ever had, and the only ones that have *never* left us standing beside the road wondering, :"what now?" Just keep up the scheduled maintenance - 5K mile oil changes for all Toyotas - and life is good indeed. We get the best of both worlds in terms of reliability.

[@mylesgray3470]

As an owner of a Tesla and a Prius, I somewhat agree. The Prius is 11 years old and it’s required a lot of maintenance. Water pump, cleaning the exhaust recirculation system, replacing the $2,200 battery (did that myself, labor would have made it more), oil changes, brakes, suspension.. it’s been a lot. But at 150k miles it drives like new, so I can’t complain too much.

[@christiandisch8147]

​@@danielking2944a few days ago there was a footnote in the local newspaper: car catches fire on the middle of an intersection. The picture next to it showed the burned out she'll of an ICE car. Nobody cares particularly much, because every now and then this just happens right? Now imagine the same story, but with an EV having caught fire. The reporting about it would have been on a very different level. And people would be demanding a ban due to fire hazards. But when an ICE car burns? Totally cool, bro.

[@nover0570]

What's weird is that I never actually see you in a Tesla. So, the video I watched was some dude that did a bunch of research online, and didn't ACTUALLY do the science required to test the claims made. Man, the internet is full of you people.

[@worldmedia1476]

I bought a Toyota Rav4 last February and it is the best car ever!!!!!

[@jagersama9792]

There are things left out on the video like Toyota 1:6:90 rule (the amount of source material used for 1 EV can be used for 6 plug in or 90 hybrids) or sales material saying batteries use conflictive materials (which they actually do eg. cobalt). Good video btw

[@PranavSinganapalli]

ICE vehicles use petroleum - which itself is a conflict resource, never mind the palladium and other exotic materials used in ICE vehicles. Hypocrisy much?

[@ironclaw6969]

@@PranavSinganapalli Gee, what is practically every non-metallic part of practically every car made of? Oh, yeah, petroleum in one form or another. You can't build your virtuemobile without oil.

[@thecoolestfaisal]

​@@PranavSinganapalli Except there are multiple sources for petroleum, whilst there is only real one source of cobalt in the world and that is the DRC. Plus the mining conditions for cobalt are some of the most horrific we'll ever see. If you've seen any footage of cobalt mining you'd understand that it is a material that we have to minimize as much as possible. But EVs on average require 13kg of cobalt and that will only last a few yrs before being replaced. If the cobalt is not recycled then that is another 13kg needed for the same car.

[@jagersama9792]

@@PranavSinganapalli i get your point but petroleum isn't exactly a conflictive material since there's many sources to get them unlike rare earth materials, cobalt is a perfect example of how a conflictive material looks like. There's a lot of warlords, exploitation, and illegal mining surrounding them, if you don't buy it from any of those shady sellers you're screwed since there aren't many places where you can find them.

[@PranavSinganapalli]

@@ironclaw6969 not even the same point by a mile. Are you saying your ICE virtue mobile is made up of pixie dust and unicorns? Or do they just magically appear at showrooms delivered by Santa Claus perhaps? ICE vehicles and EVs both need a good amount of resources to produce. Difference is ICE vehicles keep needing resources for its life time and produce pollution to boot. And petroleum resources have produced a shit to of conflict and misery globally, and they continue to prop up dictators and fuel conflict. So get off your high horse and read some

[@kalabash72]

Well, China is the fastest growing car market, and they are about 50% sales in EVs. If you leave them out of the equation. Your data is skewed in your favor.

[@jarjarbinks3193]

It is all based on government sops. Wait for everything to kaput just like high flying construction companies of China.

[@FutureTech20xx]

Very correct is one sided... The another reason why all the ev car makers are losing money is because of Chinese EVs as another contributing factor

[@koosgijsman]

Because they’re all parked up in harbors all over the world ready to be dumped on the markets at huge discounts..

[@jebes909090]

The chinese ev market is imploding now

[@Yenhongsin77]

for some reason, american channel like using small market like US for global trend, last year, a lot of american/western ev channel criticize chinese developing plug in hybrid sales. If they reduce the bias, they will see the world is following chinese car market trend.

[@martinoshinsky5713]

I was never a Toyota fan but always respected their products and passion for excellence. Being from the greater Detroit area I think most of you could understand that reasoning. Of course I am going to side with my home team. But in the past 2-3 years I did hear about Toyota's plan, especially hearing Akio Toyoda's position on EV's, and his feedback on the nature of human behaviors regarding anything transportation. It was like he was reading my mind.

[@jamesgardner6499]

We have a PHEV Mini Van. We get 40-70 mpg depending on weather (HVAC use impacts mileage) and driving conditions. My commute is 29 miles one way n I charge it every night. The mpg would be even higher if I cut that commute down. I think the hybrids r still a great option for most people that don’t have access to L2 charging or higher. Even in the commercial world I think they will be used far more often (e.g. Edison Motors, Ram Supercharger). EV’s are great solution for some people n some situations. I have little doubt they will be used more and more. Even at 50% market share, that still means 50% petrol/hybrid are being sold.

[@GraveUypo]

that's because japanese companies are pragmatic about stupid virtue signaling fads. they will do actual research and weigh in pros and cons before jumping in

[@dangrass]

They are too conservative to manage rapid technological change. If they keep this up they will be out of business. The Chinese aren't waiting around.

[@vedantmungre1702]

Lol, I suppose this is the first time I'm awake when you posted a video 😂😂 bcoz in India rn it's 12:28 a.m.

[@sayanthsonu]

Bro me got here at 12:38

[@LogicallyAnswered]

Thanks for being here Vedant!

[@adityaanuragi6916]

​@@LogicallyAnswered I'm in India too 12:32 when I started watching, just finished it, nice video bro!

[@vedantmungre1702]

@@LogicallyAnswered Can you tell subscribers in your future videos that you're of Indian decent! Some ppl think you're speaking in American accent to act "cOoL" (I definitely know that maybe you were born and brought up in USA so your accent got shaped like that naturally but some others don't get it)

[@anandsuralkar2947]

i m watching at 3:46am🙂

[@RobertCrickmore]

New to your channel and I just became a sub. Your analysis is very good but you should add comments about the legal and regulatory side to this especially in the US and Europe. It doesn't matter what the automakers think when hybrids don't meet future standards. However, it does look like those standards are being relaxed because of everything you've been talking about. The problem with that of course, is it takes years for automakers to change their production yet politics can change very quickly. That makes it almost impossible for automakers to plan 5 years ahead. I would like to hear your thinking on this.

[@AMan7595]

Hybrids are just so much more valuable to consumers. Gas is still readily available and as a rural American who can't afford an EV a hybrid is a perfect choice. Loads of fuel savings, not super expensive, and no range anxiety when I am out in the middle of nowhere which is common.

[@ChristianrnstrupRasmussen]

I guess it was the same when cars didn’t have petrol stations and horses could carry on the wagons.

[@EvilMonkey7818]

Similar. Infrastructure lacking is a real problem toward mass adoption. Installing a petrol station was also cheaper than an EV charging station with multiple outlets is. A ton of redundancy is needed for EVs since they take much longer to 'refill' and the stations tend to break relatively frequently compared to petrol fuel stations. And there's a ton of redundancy needed in the electric grid as EV growth gets to a serious level, so you're not in a blackout every day for hours at home due to so many people charging their EVs. Planning gets more complicated in huge geographical and populated countries.

[@michalfaraday8135]

Gotta love how every time there is a quarter of EV slowdown a ton of doomsday articles and videos pop up :-) As for Toyota. Well, they still push for hydrogen and assume EVs will ever only get 30 percent market share. Which very likely makes them wrong. There are 3 main reasons a lot of people don´t want a BEV. 1. Purchase price 2. Range 3. Charging (both speed and infrastructure) If we look at the trend of those parameters, the long term future is pretty obvious. And while there is a point in waiting how situation develops, the idea that as soon as the "big boys" jump in, they take over the market has been proven wrong over and over again.

[@yo2trader539]

Toyota was being generous by saying 30%. Japanese companies know the benefits and limitations of lithium-ion batteries, because it was Japanese companies that perfected them (mostly for usage in portable laptops, cellphones, walkmans, etc). Even if the price comes down, range increases, and the charging stations are built everywhere...EVs do not meet the needs of all people and their lifestyles. The reality is many countries still burn fossil fuel to generate electricity. If there were suddenly more EVs, that means we need to burn more fossil fuel to keep up with the electricity demand.

[@michalfaraday8135]

Sorry, but wrong on multiple levels. Japanesse did not perfect lithium - ion batteries. Those batteries are nowhere near their theoretical limits, which can be seen in recent improvemets, and in what is still being developed. With decreased price, and better infrastructure, EVs today would cover over 30 percent of demand easily. Many countries still burn fossile fuels - correct, but energy from renewables is growing faster than BEV consumtion. And because renewable source curtailment is a thing, incerasing the number of EVs does not necesarrily mean burning more fossile fuel.

[@ddwkc]

We use gasoline today because the infrastructure was there. Before it was in place, other type of cars were more popular. EV infrastructure isn't there and I'm afraid battery tech is also not quite there for cars trying to emulate gas cars. EV cars make sense in small form and with no need to dedicated charging network. However, the bigger ones seem a bit more temperamental and need infrastructure for them. Also, the energy they use is mostly fossil fuel anyway. I'm all for green initiatives, but I'm for smart ones like better urbanization and mass transit. We wasted so much tax money on these dumb green initiatives.

[@haroldpierre1726]

I prefer choices. I love my EV for every day driving. 105K miles later and I enjoy every minute I'm in my EV. If I need to take a long trip, which occurs maybe 4 times per year, I will reluctantly drive an ICE car. A hybrid doesn't do it for me. But I am glad these choices are available for those who have their preferences.

[@LogicallyAnswered]

Fair enough. Choices are always good

[@trevenflynn4780]

the worst part about electric car’s isnt waiting for it to charge it’s the fact you could go to a charging station and wait hours to even begin the charge

[@johnpoldo8817]

Not true, I’ve made multiple trips in a Tesla between MA and FL and never waited more than 25 mins to charge. To me it was zero time because I needed same time to eat, use bathroom, and stretch.

[@christiandisch8147]

The charging experience, especially outside of Tesla's supercharger network, can be quite horrible indeed. I've encountered chargers that refused to charge, had to navigate a dense jungle of providers and apps to avoid paying horrific roaming fees (can be as bad as one dollar per kWh), and sometimes you're also just very unlucky in the sense that the car right in front of you goes on the last free EV charging spot, and then you know they'll be sitting there for a long time. To make matters even worse, some geniuses have started to abuse EV charging as parking spots just because these spots are usually located close to the entrance. They don't even bother to pretend trying to charge the car either, the EVs just sit there next to the charger unconnected. And to make matters even worse, to the charging network and associated app those charge points appear as "available", tricking others into showing up wanting to charge, only to find the spot abused as a convenient parking space.

[@johnpoldo8817]

@@christiandisch8147 Wow, your experience has been worse than mine. In SW Florida, there’s always 1 or 2 charging stalls out of 4 down. Free Charging has been the nemesis of the charging experience causing long lines.

[@christiandisch8147]

@@johnpoldo8817 the best is yet to come. I live in central Europe and can reach 4 other countries in a matter of just a few hours of driving. Now the jungle of apps and charging networks I mentioned was just for my country of residence, but all of the other countries have similar (but of course completely different) collections of competing charging networks. For an upcoming trip abroad I signed up with one of their local providers but their app does not show prices and neither does it accept credit cards as payment option. Instead some sort of payment plan with a bank is required (which I of course don't have because I'm not from that country). At the moment it's just a big big mess of dozens of providers with very obscure pricing schemes and generally poor user experience. What you want is to show up at a charger, see the price per kWh ideally on some display, present your credit card and start charging (like I don't know we have been doing for ages with petrol stations). Instead we have to mess around with a bunch of poorly designed apps and the fear of getting ripped off constantly because a lot of these providers like to hide their prices or add additional fees like "session fee" or "usage fee" (per minute) for when the charging is finished but the car is still parked at the charger. Hence people starting to just park at the chargers but not actually hooking up the car. I wish this whole charging market would be consolidated or at least the interoperability would improve, eg one app for all chargers and without roaming fees.

[@stevesmith-sb2df]

IMO: Charging stations need to be destinations, not a pole in back of a parking lot.

[@mylesgray3470]

Tesla was building one that will be a drive up diner. I like that concept.

[@Marmocet]

Toyota's hybrids are not recharged entirely, or even mostly, by regenerative breaking. Toyota's hybrid engines are programmed to run for a set period of time so that they always operate at their optimal temperature. This means that sometimes the engine will run even if you aren't moving, or it will run harder than strictly necessary to maintain speed. When this happens, the engine's output, or excess output, is used to run a generator that charges the battery. The engine will also run the generator in order to keep the battery at an optimal state of charge.

[@michael.sierra]

I had a Chevy Volt (absolutely the most innovative vehicle GM has ever made - and after 10 years it had 0 issues, I just wanted something faster) and now I have a Chevy Bolt. Both are great cars. I don't think I'll ever own an ICE vehicle again.

[@AndiKola]

I envy you. I'm on the other side of the spectrum, I never want to ever own an EV as they're incredibly boring to drive around, but seeing as things are going I expect many governments to make it illegal to own one in the next 5-10 years. I love ICE cars, but not enough to go to jail for them.

[@elymanic3497]

​@AndiKola bro cars are boring to drive around period.

[@AndiKola]

@@elymanic3497 It depends what you drive. With the proper car you can have lots of fun. A lot of people choose to drive SUV, of course they're boring to drive around.

[@LogicallyAnswered]

Glad to hear you had a great experience Michael!

[@elymanic3497]

@AndiKola evs have way more power though so idk what ytb

[@Elizabeth-vh6il]

Carrying around the weight of an internal combustion engine when you're not even using it most of the time sounds horribly inefficient.

[@TomLawlor-iq6gm]

Yes it does. Yet, our 2024 Prime is very efficient regardless. In the five weeks we've been driving it (over 1,300km), we've only used a half tank of fuel. And, we're sure the dealer did not really fill the tank completely because the gauge started to move even before we got the car home from their lot. This is our third Prius and both of the first two ran at least half the time on battery alone, returning a minimum of 4.5l per 100km even during winter use. The new Prime can run for all our daily needs on one (under $2.00), charge while "lugging" around its 2l engine. That's the definition of efficient.

[@kng128]

Hybrids, PHEV, and BEVs have "regenerative breaking" so the momentum of its added weight isn't thrown away through the friction brakes but is instead captured backed into the battery, mostly. So a heavy vehicle with a battery can get 100+ average MPG.

[@evancombs5159]

Luckily electricity is more efficient than gasoline. Anyways, there probably isn't much difference in weight compared to an EV with its large heavy battery, it might actually be lighter.

[@yo2trader539]

Current EVs are heavy. Not just tires, it has consequences on traffic accidents, bridges, highways, etc. Like batteries in smartphones and laptops, they do lose charging power after years. And most countries burn fossil fuel to generate electricity, and some have grid issues. I don't know why some people thought rapid electrification was realistic.

[@kng128]

@@yo2trader539 we can keep burning fossil fuels or face famine and drought in 20 years. We get to choose. The net output of wheat and corn from Kansas and Nebraska have been in decline for nearly a decade. Aquifers in California are being drained to where the ground is sinking out from under buildings. We have to end carbon consumption.

[@thesandero2454]

Remember that the first two prius models weren't plug in hybrids. So they had no impact onto their electricity network. I live in Europe and most governments tried to put many people into EVs with huge tax advantages which in real world only the big lease company made money from. But the amount of strain it took on the energy network is to much atm and in the country i live with the most stable network they even are going to turn of loading docks to preserve the energy network from blacking out Untill at least 2030 problems will not be solved. Whole businesses and housing estates can't be connected onto the power grid because of this. EVs are expensive to buy,to load on public loading docks and the depreciation on them is insane. The second hand market on young EVs is really bad and for older 5+ year old EVs is pretty much dead since no one want to have to deal with a dead battery pack and write a expensive young car off. Hybrids with 40/50 mile battery range who could be plugged in or not makes so much more sense for

[@delusion2987]

used EVs are a bargain due to the high depreciation. battery degradation in modern packs is unlike older air cooled models with notorious issues like the leaf or egolf. picking up a tesla 3 for 20k euros that has like 5% battery degradation is a steal compared to cars you would get for similar price.

[@christiandisch8147]

Indeed used EVs are a bargain because everyone is afraid of the battery dying. Good for the ones brave enough to buy a used EV though! And make no mistake, hybrids suffer the same battery degradation, if not more. The smaller the battery, the more strain is put on it during a days driving: while going 50 km in an EV will result in perhaps 15% reduced charge, a much smaller plugin hybrid battery is going to be drained to near empty by the same journey. Similarly, in an EV you can easily get away with charging it to only 70 or 80% which preserves the battery health but still gives hundreds of kilometers of range. Plugin hybrid with small battery will require you to charge fully or near full all the time, increasing the degradation. 2nd hand hybrids will probably suffer the same deprecation as EVs, perhaps even steeper since people realize they might as well just by an EV.

[@joedarkness808]

The blackout thing was at summer then all the nuclear plants were shutdown I haven't seen it in years .. and we NEVER lost power

[@stuffbenlikes]

Need nuclear power

[@CrashBandiii]

Imagine having an accident with a mini reactor as a passenger 😂

[@stuffbenlikes]

@@CrashBandiii Imagine thinking a small reactor like that would explode from an impact.

[@Gal980]

Many videos are that of Honda's Did you not get permission from Toyota?

[@gabrielnascimento1021]

Ev's Achiles heels are their own batteries, if only there was a way to charge the battery on the move on wait there is, thats why most trains are hybrids while the fully electric are not exactly self propelled

[@leroy2576]

We replaced my wife's daily driver 2 years ago... Everyone was telling her to get an EV... I told her to get a Hybrid... She got a Hybrid and we have not had any issues with it and it gets awesome mileage and range. We plan to take it on a trip this year.

[@Vandelay666]

EVs needs better battery technology. Only then it will kill the Internal combustion engine

[@doujinflip]

More chargers too. Once charging gets more convenient than lining up at the gas pump, the shift to EV will crystallize.

[@timothykeith1367]

Cities are probably too sprawled for EVs to dominate. But, if they can halve the weight of the 900 pound battery so insurance doesn't total so many electric cars they have a chance

[@TheOnlyName]

@@doujinflip Sure but it won't need to be as many locations as gas stations, you can charge at home

[@kng128]

@@timothykeith1367 It's not about the weight of the battery, it's that there aren't thousands of battery repair shops to repair batteries, and maintain warranty, should something happen to it. Also, most manufacturers are currently building the battery permanently into the car. When there are enough EVs on the road manufacturer's may standardize on making swap-able batteries.

[@mylesgray3470]

The battery tech gets batter every year. It will be a fuzzy line where people decide the EV is better than gas. We are already at about the same price for the same class of vehicles for EV vs gas with model Y being $40k, comparable to manny other gas’s crossovers in price.

[@SpeilSeseKeith]

Cars are gonna be phased out after many problems with their industry like crashes, microtransactions, pollution, bragging etc. Keep getting proven

[@rickicoughlan8299]

Here in Sydney, Australia Toyota hybrids are everywhere. I drive one and cut my fuel consumption/emissions by two thirds. Toyota's hybrid system is also streets ahead of many.

[@pauld.b7129]

I don't think that EVs are the "inevitable future" and i think people should stop saying that. Tailpipe emissions are far from the only side of the story, and the US governments obsession with it has made things worse for everyone and made cars worse in general. Whether EVs are even environmentally friendly or not highly depends on how many miles they last

[@toyotaprius79]

You're seriously letting the richest of the rich off the hook now? Why do you think cars are so ridiculously expensive and poor value for money? Lots of profit in the MCM (money-commodity-moremoney) game, especially when the likes of GM and Ford manipulate their stock prices with stick buybacks.

[@wyw201]

@@toyotaprius79 He isn’t the one who repealed the stock buyback rule for corporations in the 90s. Why the aggression against the commenter?

[@kolbyking2315]

We know for a fact that fossil fuels aren't the "inevitable future." Our options are BEVs, biofuels, and green hydrogen. Hybrids of those options also work.

[@pauld.b7129]

@@kolbyking2315 lmfao "green hydrogen" is a myth at the moment. Maybe someday, but hydrogen is much harder and more dangerous to store than gasoline, and creating it uses more energy than you get in return. Over a long period, the chances of major accidents with millions of hydrogen vehicles would be huge. I think people don't understand how tame gasoline is compared to hydrogen. If one faulty hydrogen tank exploded, it would likely take out a dozen people in a crowded area.

[@dangrass]

there's no way around the basic physics. A technology that is at best 30% efficient can't compete with one that's 90-% efficient. Tesla battery longevity data makes it clear that their BEV packs last >300k miles. And once they are worn out they can be recycled, capturing 95%+ of the minerals.

[@TAmzid2872]

The problem is that EVs are just not ready, they are still a developing technology. They still have a lot of things to work out such as range, charging, infrastructure, Solid state batteries and etc. edit: I'm not a ev hater, i'm a supporter of evs its just that the mass market wont buy them until they match or outperform their gas counterparts at the same or lower price. I personally believe in 10-15 years when SSBs should come out is when mass adoption will start, as they have better range with less weight, can support faster charging (I believe 1 megawatt is the final frontier for most passenger vehicles), can be made more ethically and without lithium thus being more eco friendly and etc. The other main issue is the infrastructure in many countries as currently charging at places other than superchargers is usually worse on average as they are down more often.

[@oxaile4021]

Do you own an EV to back that up with experience? Right, of course you don't.

[@Nope_handlesaretrash]

​@@oxaile4021I don't have AIDS either but I can see that's a bad deal

[@dangrass]

this is Toyota's messaging. Not true, but they've managed to convince enough people to believe it...for a while.

[@oxaile4021]

@@Nope_handlesaretrash Yeah, i don't think you're at risk of getting it either.

[@sprockkets]

You are right about two of them. The third is uniquely a USA problem where EA, EVGo and others don't have great equipment. Personally I think LFP and its successor are going to be the killer tech since they don't require cobalt and the newer version doesn't even use lithium, but sodium. But hey, stick with gas. I just out ran a V8 truck on the road with a 200HP Kia Niro, because EVs have full access to their HP at anytime - no ramping, no waiting, just going.

[@Takudza]

I hope the simplicity of EV drive trains makes them much cheaper going forward. That BZ4X looks very interesting.

[@keacoq]

Hybrids have the big advantage of avoiding range anxiety. Seems to me that the future will hold hybrids, but hybrids with an ever increasing use of external plug-in electricity. I would prefer my EV to have a small petrol engine as well, so that I can never be struck with a flat battery. As time goes on, those petrol engines can get smaller. A key fact with EVs is they weigh the same whether the battery is charged or not. So you can make lighter cheaper vehicles if you accept low range. So (as mentioned) electric for daily commutes, petrol for longer trips. Fossil fuel use is likely to be discouraged by short supply and/or high prices or climate-favouring rules. But hybrid cars can adapt to changing rules.

[@dutchy1121]

FYI, Hydrogen powered cars are also EV's, what it does is generate electricity from the hydrogen to power the electric motor so one doesn't need loads of batteries, let's just hope your Toyota hydrogen vehicle doesn't go up like the Hindenburg

[@sirati9770]

they dont go up like the Hindenburg

[@dutchy1121]

@@sirati9770 Then you don't have to hope.... but they are surely dangerous. Of course Toyota knows that and builds in safeguards.

[@timothykeith1367]

A hydrogen-ish enriched fuel can be refined from natural gas, but at what price? Wood gas called syngas or producer gas contains hydrogen, but it's a niche fuel produced from biomass. Energy is everywhere, but economics suggest that we look elsewhere.

[@maxscott3349]

​@@timothykeith1367That's the issue I have with hydrogen, it's not something we can just mine. If we get it from oil, which is cost effective, then you still have to do something with the carbon and you're in pretty much that same situation you are just burning the oil. If you get it from water, you have to have nuclear. Otherwise it's completely pointless. It's impossible to be efficient with it, just like batteries, so you pretty much just have to have a crapton of nuclear. There's just no way around it if they want to make a complete pivot.

[@KLondike5]

Hydrogen fuel to a motor versus hydrogen fuel cell to electric are different things but both difficult to make economical and infrastructure.

[@randomchannel-px6ho]

Though we shouldn't give them credit for knowing the future, they invested heavily in hydrogen powered vehicles which has been a total dud.

[@1voluntaryist]

They took the easy path and are too old fashioned to admit their mistake. It's historically quite common.

[@yo2trader539]

Hardly. Toyota's fuel cell technology is now being used in Japan's public buses. "HYBARI" is the project name for Hydrogen fuel cell trains that is being tested by JR East, Hitachi, and Toyota. It will be operational around 2030 for non-electrified tracks. Toyota's hybrid research started 40 years ago. And now hydrogen research is conducted for mass acceptance 20-30 years from now. It's how long it takes to perfect a new technology.

[@riccccccardo]

@@yo2trader539👏🏾

[@Marmocet]

I have a ten year old Toyota Auris hybrid. Nothing has ever gone wrong with it and it still gets great fuel economy. It's not exciting to drive but it gets me, my kids and our stuff where we need to go reliably and inexpensively.

[@falkenlaser]

My “backup” car is a 1998 Camry with 420,000 miles on it.

[@DerekVuong7799]

Man, you're so wrong on so many levels. 1) Methane is natural gas which could be used to make electricity or hydrogen. It's way more efficient to run your car on batteries which stores electricity rather than to convert it to hydrogen and then covert it back to electricity using a fuel cell. 2) unless you have a direct powerline you can't import electricity. It is store as either natural gas or fuel than you burn that fuel to boil water to run turbines to generate electricity. Again going directly from fuel to electricity is better than converting it because each conversion phase energy is lost through heat. If Japan has an energy crisis they will be using EVs. 3) When japan is utilizing nuclear power they would have used more bev cars so that they don't have to import fuel or they would use pink hydrogen for their fcev cars 4) you cannot plug in a hybrid car. Hybrid car uses regeneration to charge the battery. If they are really in an energy crunch they would be using bevs because burning the fuel is less efficient than charging it. The reason why they are so against BEVs are because of the following. 1) The reason why japanese's auto maker refuses to go to EV is because their tech is not there and when they work on something they want it to be really reliable and batteries die after 10 years but toyota want their cars to be running for 30 years. 2) The majority of their space is limiting which make charging hard because you cant charge at home because you're most likely living in a high rise in japan. Also to dedicate a bunch of parking in a density packed city for evs charging only is a no go because its a waste of space. 3) EVs are not practical and are only practical in a very limited scenario. In order for EV to work a) you don't go on road trip or have another car. b) you have a garage with a level 2 charging c) you buy cars not caring about the longevity or see them as disposable and don't care about resale value d) you could afford the high up front cost e) you live in a mild climate. All these requires lots of money which is not the bases of toyota owners. You need to own your own home to install a level 2 with garage, you have to live in mid climate area which there are a higher demand for in terms of housing for housing. You need to be able to afford more than 1 car, you need to be able to afford the high initial cost and insurance cost and the depreciation. All these are more aligned with BMW owners than toyota owners.

[@christiandisch8147]

Regarding EV practicality: being able to charge at home is nice, but not a must have. We can't charge at home, but have a public charger with reasonably priced electricity close by. I can also charge at work. And even the super slow charging from a standard household outlet adds 70 km of range over night, about triple the distance of the daily commute (20 km). There's also no ICE car backup for us, we just went fully electric without safety net.

[@swaggery]

Other companies weren't wrong either. Governments could have offered tax rebates to almost cover the full cost of home charging stations and build out remote charging stations. Then you would have maybe a strong third of the US consumer market that could have full EVs if they wanted them.

[@andresg4690]

Building your current and future strategies depending on government subsidies is a gamble that Toyota just doesn't need to take.

[@Chaos_rider_666]

​@@andresg4690 actually Toyota was built on such gamble after ww2 Japanese government supported it with everything they had

[@andresg4690]

@@Chaos_rider_666 Exactly, that's the type of risks only start ups/failing companies need to take.

[@Chaos_rider_666]

@@andresg4690 while ur partly true as most risky start ups rely heavily on government subsidies and investments but even big matured companies rely on government when venturing into a new technology like EVs, high-end microprocessors etc. As they require enormous capital the government subsidies and tax benefits act as a little push for them, I'm not sure but Toyota's hydrogen push itself must be relieved on government subsidies

[@caty863]

@@andresg4690 Fossil fuel are heavily subsidized everywhere I go (here in Africa). So, it's only fair that EVs should have been supported more by governments.

[@user-su5bg3ii8n]

Couldn’t japan run power plants off of Hydrogen? If they have so much. Is it possible ? Seems easier than trying to set up hydrogen fueling stations for cars. Make electricity with it and have EV’s.