Logos Bible Software Moving to Subscription Model?

Faithlife and Logos Bible Software have talked about a subscription model for the next phase of Logos. What does this mean for you going forward? In this short video I explain my understanding of the situation.
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#biblequestions #bibleanswers #christianity #apologetics #bibleexplained #bible #theology #biblestudy #reformedtheology

[@donnie5373]

I too have no interest in a subscription.

[@PastorTanner]

Thanks for sharing, Donnie.

[@nathanaelvking]

If they do a strict subscription model, I'll leave.

[@PastorTanner]

Understandable, nathanael. Thanks for sharing.

[@mgoodman2302]

same.

[@Ambientes]

You are the Logos Guru on KZbin for us thank you

[@PastorTanner]

Thank you! I will keep trying my best.

[@stevepicray8438]

THANK YOU for saying "logos" the way I say it.

[@PastorTanner]

Agreed. Churches have split over less. ;)

[@e.b.6488]

If Logos goes to a subscription based system only I will keep my Logos 10 as long as I can and do the free updates. Thanks for the video!

[@PastorTanner]

As I understand it users will be free and fully supported to do just that!

[@RamboPreacher]

But Logos/faithlife never said they are going subs only.

[@PastorTanner]

@@RamboPreacher Correct

[@SamanthaJohnson-mo9yx]

I agree with you on this … hope they don’t go strictly to subscription!

[@PastorTanner]

Thanks, Samantha! Appreciate all of your support. 👍

[@TRUTHFIRST3.16]

Hey Pastor Tanner thanks for the update im one of those you mentioned that has most of the books offered in The logos pro package, it seems like I'm paying for the A.I feature at this point. Would they make the A.I feature for upper tiered packages such as diamond, platinum, and collection? Instead of a monthly subscription?

[@PastorTanner]

I don’t think they are likely to go that route. The AI requires a continuous payment to the third party AI provider. However if they choose to do a one time purchase it would prolly be for features only. The AI features are fourfold atm. Keep an eye out for my feature review video soon. You might find them worth it.

[@chapkenmat]

Thank you much for this. If Logos goes to a subscription I hope it will not be mandatory to purchase it, as I don't think I will. I hope it is simply an option. Thank you again for this information.

[@PastorTanner]

Yes, my pleasure. I hope their solution is workable for your situation! God bless. 👍

[@changedman6035]

It will not be mandatory, you will still have access to all the old features you purchased in your package. However if you want the new features when they come out, you can either pay a lump some outright for them, or purchase the subscription and get the new features with every update. I think its a win win scenario.

[@PastorTanner]

@@changedman6035 I agree with this up to the point of your lump sum comment. I'm not sure that they have publicly committed to allowing ALL new features accessible via lump sum. If they have stated otherwise, I'd be interested to see it.

[@bjterrell9101]

I have been using Logos for over 12 years and have always purchase the latest feature pack. I have had a great relationship with Logos and hope to continue it. Before I retired I was employed by one of the largest Banks in the World. One of my jobs was a Licensing expert and contract negotiator. I dealt with over 34 different licensing types, from more than 300 vendors. I can tell you over a 14 year period perpetual licenses were alway less expensive for the end user/company than any subscription, user, cpu based license. As long as Logos will still offer both perpetual and subscription for both features and the library it will be a win win. The biggest thing that the subscription license does for any software vendor is it adds an annuity stream. This will basically create a more steady flow of income which can increase their long term viability with Banks and investors. I will wait and see what the final offering looks like before saying yes or no to future Logos purchases, I hope they keep both options available. Only time will tell.

[@PastorTanner]

Thanks for this amazing insight. I think they are heavily considering this approach. We shall see what the future holds.

[@gregorykingsley6179]

Thank you for the explanation of how the separate services work. I too will wait on any more purchases until it becomes more clear what Logos ends up doing. I'm personally not interested in the subscription model.

[@PastorTanner]

Thanks, Gregory. I found this helpful as well.

[@davidtaylor2455]

Who do we contact at Logos about our thoughts or opinions of the subscription based program?

[@PastorTanner]

This thread is prolly #1: community.logos.com/forums/t/221543.aspx?PageIndex=1 But even commenting here might be valuable.

[@michaelau5159]

I have literaly only been able to get into Logos this year. I have payed a substantial amount for the right to be able to own outright the things I have purchased. If they keep the option to not pay a subscription I'll be happy, if they remove it I won't go to the next release. I really do like and see the value in the current system, that is why i bought it at great expense. Like you I have cancelled many, in my personal case most, of my subscriptions because it is not viable for me.

[@PastorTanner]

Thanks, Michael. Fortunately you will be able to continue using the current awesome version of Logos that you already own. I also am hoping however that they are able to support some sort of paid option rather than doing subscription only.

[@tortisrot]

I'm new to Logos. If I purchase Logos 10 before the subscription transition, will I get the features permanently? I've seen things about plans only lasting 2-24 months.

[@PastorTanner]

You will get all of the L10 features permanently, even if you never subscribe.

[@Ambientes]

I like the new background

[@PastorTanner]

Thanks for the feedback, Ambientes. I appreciate you.

[@Adamborries]

Great video! IMO, a really clear and fair assessment of the issue, amidst a lot of confusion out there.

[@PastorTanner]

Thanks, Adam! I appreciate this feedback very much.

[@Ambientes]

Amen

[@pmular]

Logos promise that the software and the engine would always be free. Then they conveniently came up with a distinction between features and the software. But without the features the software doesn't work. Pretty convenient when it makes them extra money.

[@PastorTanner]

I can understand your approach here, but the way I see it, there is a difference between the static features available at the time and the perpetual feature upgrades in the future. You always keep the former but don’t necessarily retain access to the latter.

[@shakes268]

I switched from a purchased product, Adobe Lightroom/Photoshop to a subscription model when they offered it. Both products were very expensive so paying a high price when a new version came out was sometimes prohibitive. After 10 years of a subscription? I really cannot get off of it. It's too much trouble. If I cancel it, I can't open my photography catalog and I'd spent a huge amount of time trying to move it to something else. Bottom line: If you cancel a subscription, you lose access to everything that's part of that model. I am saddened to hear they have chosen to do this.

[@PastorTanner]

Thanks for sharing your experience, shakes. Hopefully they are able to come up with a solution that works for everyone. Given that they have stated their intention to ensure that you always have access to your books, I have high hopes.

[@Ambientes]

What you think about the new logos pro

[@PastorTanner]

I’m enjoying it. I really find the Smart Search to be worthwhile.

[@dexterpadilla6904]

Is there already a price for Logos Pro? How about a beta version?

[@katielouise3924]

Thanks, Pastor Tanner, for the update on Logos changes ahead. I’m not a pastor or teacher and I have the Standard (think it was about $50.00) so I am not interested in a subscription. I have too many already, lol. However, if I was interested, I’d want a yearly option (usually offers a discount). Guess I’ll check out Accordance now. I do like owning the library & software license.

[@PastorTanner]

I can understand that completely. In the past Logos has done yearly as well. Hopefully they roll out an affordable option that is valuable for you.

[@karlb8069]

So, what happens to my current Logos 10 Platinum? Will I need to get a subscription on top of that?

[@PastorTanner]

Nope, you’ll get to keep your platinum books and all of your Logos 10 resources.

[@karlb8069]

Great! Thank you for being a viable information source! I'm still learning how to use Logos. Lol. And I need to get better soon because of seminary school . Again, thanks@@PastorTanner

[@PastorTanner]

​​⁠take advantage of that great library! I believe it is an awesome investment! ❤

[@Ambientes]

Pt can you do a video comparing accordance with Logos please

[@PastorTanner]

I’ve never used accordance, so it would be hard to say

[@BrodyWatry]

If I purchase the logos 10 full feature set right now will I be able to keep those features without the subscription?

[@PastorTanner]

Yes, absolutely. However many of the new features that I have been showcasing with Logos Pro are not in Logos 10 and we do not know as of yet if they will ever be available without a subscription.

[@ph3426]

I've been using Logos for about 20 years, and its reached the point now where even the base program is so unnecessarily bloated that unless you have a newer laptop or PC, it consumes to many GBs for it to function properly. I'm done with the Logos update; keeping my resources fewer simplifies the sermon study process.

[@PastorTanner]

I can completely understand that, R H. I’ve personally had to upgrade both desktop and laptop in order to run the program efficiently. If others are unable to do that, keeping it simple can make sense.

[@antonybrennan]

Thanks for the voice of reason

[@PastorTanner]

Thanks for the feedback, Antony.

[@JonStallings]

I guess I will wait and see. All the things going to subscriptions is overwhelming. I get Logos needs to make money. But also, I am bi-vocational Pastor of a small church. Sadly most things for churches are priced for a big church. I fear this will become one more thing.

[@PastorTanner]

I completely understand that, Jon. I hope there is an option that works for you and your situation. 👍

[@KevinLee-zv5bb]

They're not helping other servants of the Lord who cannot afford that much. Package and then subscription. The exchange rate from the Philippine peso to the US dollar is too high.

[@PastorTanner]

This sounds like a really tough situation, Kevin. I hope there is a solution that works for you!

[@dexterpadilla6904]

I agree.

[@tonyhunterajh]

Thank you for the video. I have no interest in a subscription model. Right now, I have a library that serves me well, and when I want additional features, I simply upgrade or buy what I want… end of expenses! But a subscription model would the same as Cable TV subscriptions, which I hate, because I pay a premium price for dozens of channels I never watch, only to have access to the one or two channels I do watch. It’s a money grab and I don’t appreciate it. I really like Logos, so much so that I switched from something else to invest in my package and libraries, but if Logos moves to a subscription model, I won’t be a part of that.

[@PastorTanner]

I can appreciate this, Tony. I can also agree that my current library with its current features is absolutely amazing and I would be content to study the rest of my life with what I have.

[@blkmacster]

Same

[@bryanbeeman5256]

So, I will say this: if I have features that I use and some type of way they figure out how to combine features and discontinue the ones I DO have (meanwhile locking the new, integrated features behind a subscription), I’m out. I’ve seen that done before and it’s not right.

[@PastorTanner]

Fair enough, Bryan. Let’s hope they don’t do that.

[@12Burton24]

Well as far as i see in the e mail packages will be sold anymore. They just talk about the change to subscription system and last chance to buy packages.

[@PastorTanner]

Looks like they WILL offer new base packages with the latest iteration. 👍

[@KevinLee-zv5bb]

I don't want a subscription model, especially for those in third-world countries can't afford.

[@PastorTanner]

I can completely understand this, Kevin. 👍

[@sectasfalsassbbcs100]

Tal cual. Soy de Argentina y acá lo que compramos con tarjetas de crédito tiene un recargo importante y casi duplica el precio. De todas maneras, con mi L10 Salomón tengo lo suficiente para el pastorado y enseñar en el seminario. Estoy agradecido. ¿Se imaginan lo que habría podido hacer Chafer o Scofield si hubieran tenido Logos?

[@BlessedLaymanNC]

what happens to the features we have?

[@PastorTanner]

Logos has stated you keep them and they won't go away.

[@nics8040]

What happens if Logos goes out of business? If I spend thousands on different resources, will it be gone if they go out of business? Thanks

[@PastorTanner]

Nic, they have always stated that is not the case. If you purchase books with them, you own them for life and you should always have a program that will be able to 'read' them.

[@ChristianWagner888]

Logos is closed source and dependent on a centralized server. If they go out of business and you want to reinstall on a new system, it will probably not install. Without OS support updates, you may not be able to run the old version of Logos on new versions of Windows or macOS. Maybe in a VM, but even then it is server dependent for redownloading your purchased book library. At least with Amazon books, they can be decoded and read in other apps. Nothing like that portability exists for Logos books AFAIK. The old versions of Logos 3 still run in a VM, when properly backed up and installed on a compatible OS, but probably only because copy protection had been broken long ago. I experienced BibleWorks going out of business, and even though they are quite a lot more self contained, after a few years it became quite unusable, except in a VM. Software becomes stale after only a few years and unlike a Bible printed in 1860 from my great grandparents library, it will likely not last beyond one generation.

[@PastorTanner]

@@ChristianWagner888 Thanks for the insight, Christian.

[@catpocalypsenow8090]

They are the Bloomberg of bible software, and Bloomberg terminals are very expensive every month.

[@PaDutchRunner]

I had the impression that the primary purpose of the subscription was to access AI features - this only makes sense, because obviously, Logos does not own the AI - therefore, they themselves are subscribing to the AI, and therefore, faithlife is simply passing their cost along to the end users.

[@PastorTanner]

I believe it is both this and ongoing server costs for cloud-based tools that are primarily feeding into it. I agree that this makes sense. 👍

[@PaDutchRunner]

@@PastorTanner Yes. I’ve been shocked by the quality and extensiveness of the cloud-based offerings. And they seem to be so underutilized by everyone!! I wish more people would make use of them!

[@PastorTanner]

@@PaDutchRunner It's an embarrassment of riches!

[@quentinhathcock5848]

Hope we could switch over to accordance.

[@PastorTanner]

I haven’t used Accordance before, Quentin, but I am certainly happy we live in a day and age with so many amazing resources at our fingertips.

[@curtisbrookegreenwood6866]

No, you don’t wish you could switch over to Accordance… I have both and Accordance has had its problems of its own! In fact, far more than Logos. So enjoy what you have :)

[@quentinhathcock5848]

Hey thanks for the reply. @@curtisbrookegreenwood6866

[@carlthomas4959]

I have the Faithlife subscription and I think its cheaper than upgrading my software every other year.

[@PastorTanner]

When you add it all up, I think you are probably right. Interestingly, legacy users might be better served with the subscription since their track record has demonstrated that they will likely use the software in perpetuity.

[@edkirkwood6951]

No subscription for me!

[@carbonbiker]

That chair is creepy. It looks someone is behind you wearing a burka!

[@PastorTanner]

It’s a gaming chair! Though, I am not much of a ‘gamer’ any more. . . .

[@Ambientes]

Como estas pastor bendiciones

[@PastorTanner]

Doing well, Ambientes! I hope you are also.

[@12Burton24]

They should ask Adobe product users how much they like subscriptions.....

[@PastorTanner]

Yes, I have certainly heard some horror stories surrounding THAT subscription model

[@timbader898]

Thanks for the summary. I tried to wade through the thread on the Logos forum, but ran out of steam! I replied to that thread, to make my thoughts known, since they wanted feedback, but if you don't mind, I'll put it too, in case you have any thoughts on it: "I haven't got time to go through this entire thread, but have seen the main gist of where things are headed, and hopefully, understand most of what you and your team are trying to reassure us with. I appreciate that subscription models help software companies, but they don't always help customers. May I add my voice to those who say please don't make it subscription only for new features: split the AI features off, if you need to have a subscription for them. I have always avoided subscriptions and will continue to do so, because I think it's a better way to steward my limited resources and I prefer to own things rather than rent them. Your team have said a lot about those who own Logos 10 full feature sets, but very little about those who have only partial feature sets. I'm not a pastor but preach regularly in my church and also run a small independent ministry. I therefore recently purchased the Preaching Suite Essentials package to help me with my preaching and teaching. Please tell me that the promised ability to edit sermons on mobile will still be made available to those who don't subscribe but have bought the feature on desktop. Also, I got the preaching suite feature set without already having the Starter/Bronze/Silver feature upgrade (I have used Logos since L4, but couldn't afford to upgrade each time), but would love to be able to get the other features in L10 without having to get a subscription. Would you please make it possible to at least be able to get the other feature upgrades that are currently offered for Logos 10, in an ongoing way? (Again, I couldn't afford a full feature upgrade in one go, but would be grateful for the opportunity to be able to step up gradually over the next few years)" Any thoughts on that, or is there anything I missed in that thread that would shed any light?

[@PastorTanner]

Tim, I think this is a reasonable and measured response. It seems clear to me that in your use case you need access to very specific features and are concerned that they will be lost. I hope that Logos is able to find a solution that works well for everyone. 👍

[@YoshiOST]

the end is nigh????

[@PastorTanner]

Indeed, Yoshi. The future looks grim indeed.

[@PaDutchRunner]

@@PastorTanner lol

[@seansmith2690]

I do not want to pay a subscription for features, I would want to purchase them. I will be incredibly disenfranchised from Logos if they go down the subscription only route.

[@PastorTanner]

Thanks for making your voice heard, Sean. -tanner

[@quentinhathcock5848]

Why would we wand to subscribe with all the ways AI is already encroaching into our lives. I would be more likely to subscribe in order exclude AI.

[@PastorTanner]

I can understand the aversion, Quentin. Time will tell how this technology will impact us all.

[@thermopylos]

I realize that the Greek is pronounced that way but I get triggered when it’s pronounced “lah-gahs” 😞

[@wolves201]

Think I’ll stick with Olive Tree.

[@BigYehudah]

Faithlife is filling Logos with CRT & Gender ideology books now.

[@PastorTanner]

If I had my way, Logos would have every kind of book in it. That way even if I were doing research into something I disagreed with, I would have all of the resources I needed to reference in the same place. I don’t need Faithlife to gate-keep for me.

[@thedailypromise4408]

I really hate the subscription model on all software. You just rent the software. I think most of the time, it’s just a money grab. I understand development cost, but this is already a very expensive program.

[@cube_1674]

All about the money.

[@PastorTanner]

I'm not so sure about that. Logos has won my trust over the past decade plus that I have been a user. I could understand the sentiment, however.

[@cube_1674]

@@PastorTanner but that’s the problem today. I use their software as well. Money is a big motivator--even for our religion. It’s sad….but it is what it is and it is still great learning software. I am in seminary and I use it.

[@PastorTanner]

@@cube_1674 Well, like it or not we live in a capitalist economy and they are trying to run a business. I don't know where all of their profits go, but at the end of the day they have to answer to God for that, I suppose. I trust them, and I trust God. You are right however that the product is expensive and Christians are not exempt from the whole 'industry' of the thing.

[@cube_1674]

@@PastorTanner very true. Also, there is free software available… even from logos. So I retract my initial post.

[@PastorTanner]

No problem, cube. God bless you in your studies. ❤️

[@pastorrandy]

The first time I saw this software I felt it was horribly overpriced. That was 10 years ago or so. Never bought it. I've been able to find free resources online that meet all of my needs.

[@PastorTanner]

Very nice, pastorrandy. We certainly live in an amazing age where we have so many options available to us.

[@johntang4108]

It costs me an arm and a leg for evey version upgrade of Logos.

[@PastorTanner]

My annual spend in Logos has really fallen off over time. Those first few years were a lot, however!