Loki's name Loptr, and Hǿnir

Some possible etymologies for Loki's name 'Loptr/Loftr' (perhaps "praised one") and the name of the obscure god Hǿnir/Hœnir (perhaps "hawk" or "rooster").
Jackson Crawford, Ph.D.: Sharing real expertise in Norse language and myth with people hungry to learn, free of both ivory tower elitism and the agendas of self-appointed gurus. Visit jacksonwcrawfo... (includes bio and linked list of all videos).
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[@sciencefictionisreal1608]

I like the idea that Loki, Honir, and Odin were are roommates in college and never stopped hanging out together.

[@Blonde_bombadil]

I live in Southern Arizona and have a wild raven named Loki that has come to see me everyday for the past 8 months. He loves listening to your lectures while I garden.

[@haraldurbjornsverrisson4565]

In Icelandic we use the word hæna in two ways. As a noun it means hen, like the bird, but as a verb, spelled & pronounced the same, it means to lure something to you, to attract, to seduce, tempt, deceive or even to "seiða" something to you, as in enchantment by magic. Dont know if it fits the old norse, but it just came to mind.

[@rugbybeef]

This complements the conception of the name as "chickenhawk" quite nicely.

[@perperson199]

Watching this from Hønefoss. The only place still named after Hønir

[@joluoto]

You sure it's not just named after chicken?

[@kev1734]

:'') I was in tears at the fact that capitol G in god's trigger you. cheers for the information and the laugh!

[@kyrrekausrud5960]

In Norwegian the common hawk (Accipiter gentilis) is called "Hønsehauk" -Hen hawk - essentially being named "chicken-taker".

[@Blodhosta]

That thing about Hǿnir having something to do with an animal preying on chickens might be corroborated (though very weakly) by the fact that he is refered to as quick and as long-legged in Skáldskaparmál. If he is already associated with something like a fox that might make more sense than it otherwise would.

[@Blake_Stone]

I'm gonna name my firstborn daughter "Skychicken" and there's nothing my wife can do to talk me out of it.

[@keegster7167]

I mean, in Ancient Rome you have the chicken-men (pullinarii) who were fiercesome warriors so names with ‘chicken’ in them can evoke quite different feelings than you’d expect

[@mb377w]

I like the idea of Loptr meaning 'praised one' for Loki. Given that the other gods are at least somewhat scared of him (except Thor). It reminds me of The Rolling Stone's, Sympathy For the Devil lyrics, "So if you meet me Have some courtesy Have some sympathy, and some taste Use all your well-learned politnesse Or I'll lay your soul to waste". After all, what mortal wants to get on Loki's bad side. It makes perfect sense that they would have a better sounding title to address him, even if to everyone else it's tongue-in-cheek.

[@mnels5214]

Yeah I was wondering the same thing, if they were using it ironically.

[@alysmarcus7747]

@@mnels5214 nope - Loki was a trickster - not a god, but in fact even more important Tricksters cause change. Creation/Destruction . and they are clever - so you don't want to upset a trickster

[@owenswabi]

@@alysmarcus7747 loki was aesir

[@alysmarcus7747]

@@owenswabi sorry, no. I've been studying wit h an archaeologist that specializes in that culture. Loki, no matter how revered is a trickster - not a god. more important that anyone really if you study the cultures that have tricksters

[@owenswabi]

@@alysmarcus7747 snorri literally refers to Loki as part of the aesir

[@Audio_Titan]

There's nothing like receiving a wish for all the best from beautiful CO. Thanks for another great video. Super fun fact about Shiva meaning "civil one"

[@trungkiennguyen9193]

“Is he Colonel Sanders?” - Jackson Crawford, 2021

[@judyshoaf448]

I think the English term "fairy" (separate from the French/Latin/Italian terms fee/fata) may be the type of term for a deity you suggest for Loptr, i.e. a pleasant and flattering term for a dangerous being.

[@alysmarcus7747]

i was going to say before too much in , that that spelling is connected to love/affection - because there is a norse goddess by that name. Also there is a poem-song about Loki's mother that i have a recording of, and that 'sound' of the variation of the name is in the song. It is a galdyr to Loki - so it is intended to be praise.

[@aaronstavern]

Watching this from Oulu, Finland! Really enjoyed this video, I have missed a few in the past months! Need to go back now and watch them!

[@Druzica18]

Thank you for making these! I always learn so much from them!

[@janisport23]

Damn spellcheck with its Christian influence

[@jollyviking4099]

Thanks for what you’re doing this channel. Your sharing of information about old Norse is invaluable.

[@biggestfanof300]

I'd like to read that paper, both of these topics are very interesting. Great video, as always, Jackson.

[@bartholomewschumacher7319]

Thank you for your insights Dr Jackson, I appreciate your in depth analysis of some ancient way if our ancestors.

[@ZealotKarrde]

Another excellently reasoned and interesting theory!

[@misanthropicmalcontent9977]

I wonder if Dr. Crawford realises what a brilliant dry wit he has? This was as amusing, as it was informative.

[@roguehydra]

As the side point you mentioned - I also hate hate... HATE!!! that my auto-correct ALWAYS wants to capitalize the word god or gods! I've tried to remove it or alter it in the dictionary but it refuses to go away or be a thing at all and I feel your pain there.

[@SpenserLi]

I like that Rocky Mountain national park field notebook too.

[@lakrids-pibe]

I often wonder if laugardagr (saturday) has something to do with Loki. "Laug" is old norse for "bath", but it's just a strange name when all the other days are named after gods. Edit: Wikipedia (for what it's worth) suggest the semi-obscure god *Lóðurr* instead. Perhaps a better bet.

[@bluedogguy]

Really great video.

[@MorganEAshton]

This is fascinating, thank you! I was looking up how Loptr was pronounced, and found your great analysis of the name instead! Much more informative, and entertaining to boot. Is it possible that lopt/loft, lypta/lyfta, and luβ/lof/loptr/loftr all come from the same root? After all, to love or praise is to lift someone up or raise them aloft (towards the air/sky)? There is an upward motion implied by all of those words that makes me think perhaps their similarities aren't coincidental. Also, the second half of this video made me laugh so many times. I really appreciate when people have fun when they teach, and I can definitely sympathize with the frustration over GDocs wanting to "correct" things that aren't wrong.

[@j3tztbassman123]

Interesting. Also, there are other kinder kennings employed with regards to certain other mythical entities.

[@jackpayne4658]

As with the 'Good Folk', aka 'Little People' or faeries - neither good nor little in many tales.

[@FurikoMaru]

3:32 - I mean, I guess if you get fanciful with his lineage you might get an association with lightning; a striker and a leafy island, boom, lightning hitting a tree. But I don't even know if the 'strike' element in Farbauti's name is meant in the same sense we'd use it in English - hell for all I know it's supposed to be indicative of a ship striking the shore of the aforementioned leafy island Laufey.

[@MT-kw4hn]

Well now, that's an interesting idea. Are you planning to write it up as a paper? I like your explanation for Loptr, particularly as I've never found the fire/lightning argument convincing. I also think it's fitting somehow because of Loki's association with guile. Maybe you are on to something, I'd like to know more anyway.

[@janeauer7389]

The Irish call the fae the “Good People” to appease the fae because people fear becoming the object of the fae’s mischief.

[@jacobandrews2663]

That's fascinating, I mean, I guess it makes sense that the only reason why the gods would even endure Loki's mischief was if they loved him.

[@lakrids-pibe]

That and the fact that he was immensely powerful. If you look at his children (Who are aspects of him) Fenrir , Jörmungandr and Hel, they are all as strong as the gods and destined to destroy them at Ragnarök. Jörmungandr circles the known world in the great ocean and forms the outer limits of the realm of the Asir. Hel is (in) the underworld, where the Asir doesn't hold any power, but must ask politely when they want Baldr back. And she declines. I see the "friendship" with Loki as an uneasy peace-treaty that everybody know can't last.

[@noneofyourbusiness4595]

Combined with the oath Odin made to not accept a drink unless one is poured for Loki also.

[@johannnyborg3998]

The Danish word for hawk is høg, so yes.

[@Hwyadylaw]

What does that have to do with it?

[@Atlas-pn6jv]

@@Hwyadylaw Johann is referring to Dr. Jackson talking about where Hønir's name came from. He says that Hønir looks like a masculine for of Høna, which means "chicken" in Old Norse, but is also close to another verb that means "to herd." And since Loki is associated with a bird of prey, maybe Hønir is a euphemism for "Hawk" or "Falcon," because those two birds are associated with Loki. And Johann says that Høg is Danish for "Hawk," and Høg is just a phoneme from the root "høn(a)" (chicken), so it is etymologically possible that the word Høg in Danish came from the root Høna.

[@anotherelvis]

@@Atlas-pn6jv Wictionary claims that "hawk" can be traced back to proto-germanic "hauhaz" whereas "hen" can be traced back to "hōnijǭ" (But I am not a linguist, so I cannot judge if this is true) en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/h%C5%8Dnij%C7%AD en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Germanic/hauhaz

[@rubbedibubb5017]

@@Atlas-pn6jv or that it’s a play on words since the words are similar.

[@Thesnorre6]

Norwegian name for hen is høne, plural old norse version of it would be hønir. Don’t know if hawk or hen is cooler:)?

[@scrymglin]

Hønir: the Norse Colonel Sanders. I laughed out loud at that

[@tannermccollum7060]

I have your copy of the Havamal and I like it how it's in both Old Norse and English.

[@dragorsi]

Weirdly, sky chicken sounds like a superhero name 😅

[@mnels5214]

I'm positive Sky Chicken has been on Space Ghost Coast to Coast.

[@crimsondeath7468]

In Norwegian it sounds like Luftig wich means "airy" wich again makes me thing of "eerie". The calm before the storm. As Loke is a trickster like egyptian Set wich is a wind and storm God of Chaos it does not seam unlikely. Loke means Floke wich in English is Tangle/knots aka KAOS in the fabrick and wheel of the world. Hønir is most likely the Norse Horus the Hawk God who beat Set in Egyptian mytology

[@Atlas-pn6jv]

Loki and his Hawk/Falcon = The Praised One and his Chicken 😂

[@aSnailCyclopsNamedSteve]

You can edit autocorrect in MS Word. The long route is via proofing under options. You can tell it that gods = gods or that godd = gods or even gd = gods. And then it won't capitalise the word. I do not see a god autocorrect entry in UK English so no idea why that is occurring.

[@paulaunger3061]

Love your Loki theory. It matches my impression from the Eddas that Odin is seriously afraid of Loki - everything he does seems geared towards the final battle at Ragnarok, which features Loki and Hel against the Aesir. Reasons this should be are, like an explanation of how Odin and Loki became blood brothers, apparently unavailable. I'd love more videos on Loki! It would be a great counterpoint to the MCU version ;p The relationship between Loki and the Aesir headed by Odin fascinates me, along with the idea that the word 'Loki' is a title rather than a name - hence there's 'Utgard (sp?) Loki' in another story. It seems odd that there are two people with the same name in the stories. I also wonder if there's a middle-eastern origin for Loki. Something about the whole character makes me think of satan (as opposed to Lucifer or the devil).

[@borisv.6503]

In Czech if you would remove the f from the name it would be Lotr and that means joker or a person who is a problem

[@fariesz6786]

maybe Hønir more vaguely means "he who has achieved birdacity"? Lesley the bird nerd, from the shadows behind me: this isn't even my final form

[@Atlas-pn6jv]

I was thinking more like it's a reductive euphemism for a bird of prey. Loki and his Hawk/Falcon = The Praised One and his Chicken. It's funny because they are opposites.

[@fariesz6786]

@@Atlas-pn6jv i mean.. Sue the T. rex goes by the moniker murderbird

[@0applefish]

would definitely read if a paper on this was released

[@jeffatwood9417]

interesting thoughts, and I enjoy your work. Einar Hrafnson, an Icelandic friend of mine at Uppsala when I studied there, told me Hœnir means "The one who hones" and goes well in association with Vili, the Will that shapes the sensations sent by Odhinn. The Æsir trinity of Odhinn, Vili, Ve are the creative faculties of Feel-Think-Speak, where Ve is the result of (re-)action, planned by Vili as a conscious response to sensational stimuli perceived by Odhinn. The way I see it, Odhr is to Odhinn as Hugr is to Huginn...Sense is to Sensation as Mind is to Thought, the faculty and the action it takes. When we get to the trinity as Odhinn, Hœnir and Loki we see that Loki is associated with Ve! In this way he is the reason for praise. If we look at Lödhr and Ve we see that the elixir of internal alchemy is the praised result of action. Loki and Odhinn having an oath together goes back to such an ancient fire ceremony that it can be clearly understood in Vedic practice. It also goes along with why Bragi is married to Idhunna, for he brags/praises in his poetry while pouring libations into Heimdall's "piss-pot" mouth. Going back to the trinity, we see that Bragi is an alchemist and the fruit of his actions are the praises at the fire, for the apples are the hearth fire coals, gathered into a basket at night to rekindle the divine reality in the morning with prayers by pouring (ghee) butter as an oil fuel to start a new fire. Loki, in my opinion, relates to the subtle light of vision, which is why he and Odhinn have their oath to drink together. When All-Father drinks (inebriated sensation) Loki visions are the goal to harness like a vision quest. Catching the fleeting vision might well fit with the net story of catching the Loki-Salmon, also related to attaining wisdom. The dream-state vision in TCM relates to Liver fire not rooting the spirit in the body. Thunder lives in the Wood of the Liver as the Hun, who is the General and revolts when the Emperor (Heart) dishonors his position, like Indra pulling Dyaus from his throne. In alchemical terms, Lodhr is the blood which turns to semen (soma) in men. Sensation is All-Father because without sensation, nothing can exist to the mind. Sensation is the process of the Mind (Shen) forming perceptions (Vili-Hœnir) that result in active responses to the stimuli. Shen rides the blood in TCM just as Odhinn and Loki should be praised together. I hope this is clear enough for you to understand. I don't have time to be completely clear.

[@thunderstorm55]

was looking for something like this for info about yugioh

[@calvincoolidge8180]

Loki - the Old Norse equivalent of Alfred E. Neuman.

[@hewcarroll]

I may be way off base with this but here it goes. Could the sky chicken translation be literal and possibly refer to a rooster? If so it seems to me this could be reference to a watcher. Roosters stand watch over the flock and signal the coming of day or predators. Heimdall is the watchman of the Aesir. Watching over them ready to signal the coming of the day of Ragnarok and alerting the gods to the approach of their enemies. Thus could Heimdall be Honir?

[@casthedemon]

This could especially be relevant since there are three great roosters who signal the coming of Ragnarok.

[@casthedemon]

Actually nevermind. Hoenir survives Ragnarok. Heimdallr doesn't since he and Loki kill each other. So that theory, while interesting, doesn't work sadly.

[@hewcarroll]

@@casthedemon The idea of a peaceful time after Ragnarok doesn't really fit with what we know about Norse culture. It's far more likely that Ragnarok was sent as a cycle, this they may have believed it all started over again after Ragnarok.

[@casthedemon]

@@hewcarroll it's also far more likely than that, that there wasn't anything at all after Ragnarok. That it really was an End.

[@hewcarroll]

@@casthedemon that's true, from what I've read the norse did have a concept of cyclical time.

[@Jon-mh9lk]

I like the idea that Hœnir is realted to the nonattested "hún" meaning holy. The words hunsl/húsl (Eucharist, offering) derive from that root. Compare Old English hūsl, modern English housel (Eucharist) and Gothic hunsl (offering, sacrifice, ritual?). It further comes from the Indo-European root *ḱwen with polisch święty meaning "holy" or "saint". I think this comes close to the original meaning of Hœnir.

[@polnocblog]

Lopt is also a name of some inhabitant of Konungahela when it was besieged and conquered by Slavic Pomeranians in 1135. He's mentioned in Heimskringla.

[@bjorn8453]

Interesting! I wonder if Loptr could also have a bit more sarcastic or tongue-in-cheek meaning, to follow the similar train of thought

[@sydneykloba7827]

That’s what I thought too. Since Lokasenna could be alternately titled ‘Loki ruins a party’ I imagine Gefjon saying it in a ‘because you’re just SO easy to be around’ type of tone, seeing as he was insulting other gods. Maybe a ‘pot, kettle’ kind of saying?

[@hallowacko]

I get soooo frustrated with Google Docs btw, and all their software. I've tripped over their programming and formatting quirks so many times that I would prefer to never use them again.

[@karlaa2867]

I love your videos and I'm working hard to learn Old Norse thank you cause you have been a great help... so one of the gods is Kernel Sanders? XD

[@jacobandrews2663]

the raven, the falcon and the hawk? that sounds poetically plausible

[@pattheplanter]

Wolf, fox and serpent?

[@jacobandrews2663]

@@pattheplanter that too

[@clanDeCo]

Ha ein bra dag i dag herr crawford

[@starglow2016]

😍😍😍

[@mikearmbruster2171]

Isn't there a rooster that lives at the top of Yggdrasil ? That crows at ragnorok

[@rugbybeef]

Is it possible that "chickenhawk" is the word / euphemism that you were looking for? The base word has both understandings of a victimizer of chickens and a bird of prey. Additionally, there are secondary and tertiary meanings that seem to align. Apparently the term "hawk" as in military hawk, pro war, interventionalist is derived from chickenhawk. A cursory scan of Hønir's biography seems to fit that term. And the tertiary meaning is the euphemistic double entendre "chickenhawk" as someone who preys on the young or naïve sexually. I have always understood it to have homophobic undertones, although I'm not certain of that. This also seems to at least tangentially align with his sexual ecstasy, passion, and lust associations, especially if these have undertones of exploitation or less than full consent. Just the way you were describing his name and the note about reading between the lines reminded me of the term somehow. It would be interesting to find that the term is actually related somehow.

[@rugbybeef]

To followup, are there any homosexual undertones in the story of these three? Possibly to set Odin apart from the other two as straight? I can't help but note the centuries old gay tropes of the fae/the fop (praised one) and potentially the chickenhawk preying on younger or less experienced guys. I may be projecting here, however these both ring as very old gay tropes. The fae, indulgent, narcissistic, beauty and praised obsessed fop or queen depending on era. The term pederast is misleading in that it has become more stigmatized and associated with boys rather than young men as it was originally attested. However the concept of an older man who appreciates and mentors or trains young men, eapecially as it relates to military service seem like it would fit well with a war deity if military service is a male-only affair. This would also set up a complementary and contrasting set of persona for the trio if Odin is straight, Loki is fae and fopish, and Hønir is stern ("silent") chickenhawk with lustful tendencies towards those in his charge. Think about believe it or not The Muppets and "Sam Eagle" the patriotic and stern disapproving character who comes in to tamp down on the silliness. He is overbearing and stern, and played for laughs when he decries that under everyone's clothes we are all naked. The joke has always played as a certain type of gay man. Hell, I just found a video from 14 years ago where they have him giving talk on American women that starts with "American woman, stay away from me..." Sam Eagle when asked by Kermit about his family is separated from a wife whose name he has forgotten, and has two kids "who don't write". Interestingly, even here the hawk versus fop dynamic plays out. After many of Sam Eagle's pronouncements, the scene cuts to a short interstitial between Staedler and Waldorf, the two judgy older Muppets in the box seats. Staedler offers a one-liner wittism to what we are to interpret as his partner. None of these characters are overtly gay. Yet the stern, serious literal hawk character plays directly against the ascorbic gay couple who have had the same theater box for decades, despite the fact they witheringly mock the performances every night, there is not a clearer portrayal of these two tropes that I can think of. As you were discussing the potential of Loki's name meaning one desiring praise and the "skychicken" hawk Hønir, the fopish versus stoic dynamic felt immediately recognizable. And that's not to mean the stoicism is never dropped. What if "silent" character trait attributed to Hønir is meant more as the stern stoicism we see literally attributed here to a military hawk, er eagle? It's not hard for me to imagine a Sam Eagle who had a very pleasant time among his fellow hawks and all the chicken literally and metaphorically "under his wing".

[@ewood8238]

Heard fire association comes from the later folklore Lokki that people said lived under fireplaces

[@DrevniyMonstr]

& How to write it correctly - ᛚᚢᛒᛏᛦ or ᛚᚢᚠᛏᛦ?

[@alexandersilady4751]

I have heard that Wagner just took Logi, the hypostasis of fire from the story of Thor, Loki, and their servant boy taking on the challenges in Utgard, and fused him with Loki. But I've also heard that Loki DOES have some old Norse associations with wildfire and lightning because his parents' names supposedly mean "Leaf pile" (Laufey) and "Lightning bolt" (Farbauti, with "Fierce Striker" being a kenning for lightning). He also has a brother whose name seemingly couldn't possibly mean anything but "Bee Lightning" whatever that means. Is there really nothing to this? I think it's ingenious etymology but I suppose it could also be bunk, I haven't studied nearly as deeply as others, especially Dr. Crawford.

[@chappedhideleather]

Man oh man. You don't know a Dr. Michael Valle do you? If you don't, I really think you should. I bet you would get along great.

[@jackpayne4658]

My fat black cat Loki is watching this with me. It's a misnomer - he's very affectionate and rather stupid. However, his sister Yoko is the real Loki - crafty, malicious, a shape-shifting trickster.

[@billosby9997]

I do enjoy these but sometimes you just make my head hurt.

[@melkorgidauglir9597]

Could he be Tyr?

[@beepboop204]

[@davidborden3181]

Hello Dr. Crawford! So in some pronunciation keys I see that both 'k' and 'g' become voiced velar fricatives between vowels. This would alter the pronunciation of both "Loki," and the word for flame 'logi.' Is it possible that Loki was thus at some point associated with flames and fire through this possible connection? I feel like the pronunciation was so close that the words could be of the same origin, though that's just postulation. It is interesting to note that there's the myth of Loki getting into an eating contest with Logi the fire giant, and that this story could possibly be some sort of metaphor for domesticated fire vs wild fire.

[@cuckoo61]

The Chickening

[@Jagiru223]

Do you think Asia and aesir. . . and Gotaland and the Jotun have a connection? Maybe the Vanir are the original gods before contact with Asia. Just a theory.

[@91jubaku]

Capital G is a sky chicken

[@91jubaku]

It's irony all the way down :)

[@alysmarcus7747]

oh great Sky Chicken - - hahahahahahah

[@mikearmbruster2171]

Sometimes the role that Loki plays reminds of the role that Judas had

[@paulaunger3061]

OMG Google Docs?!! Why not download a free wordprocessor? There are loads, Open Office being one of the best, in which you can do custom dictionaries.

[@TheGrinningViking]

I always found the fire, Loki/Logi argument convincing because a lot of the archetypical roles of the gods filled roles that seem to match the views of the old Norse at the time, as well as some later Danish folklore that seemed to reflect less Christian (more ancient pop culture) versions of the Old Norse gods. (It's old hat for anyone that studies this stuff way too much, but it's also reflected in Loki's blood bringing the potential to bear life to Skaði (ignoring the goat) and in a few other old tales.) Odin as the god of kings (with all the great strengths and great flaws) having the knowledge to harness fire, but Loki as a representation of fire being a natural force that could only be used and confined but never controlled. It's all very interesting think think about.