Loki's Timelines vs. Universes: Do we FINALLY have the answer?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

If you'd like to join the discord server, here is a link: discord.gg/aboeMCU. There are over 800 members so far. Love to have you be part of the conversation!

[@MotherAlsaud]

Can I say I absolutely love your breakdowns ever since I stumbled upon your channel a few months ago I am enthralled in your attention to detail and on more than one occasion you had me saying wow I didn’t think of that but he makes perfect sense I do wish you had reacted to and broken down season 1 of Loki 🥰🥰🥰

[@rogerroger5171]

This is why Casey had that trey full of "infinity stones" from various universes. Each universe had its own "big bang" and as Wong told us, from that infant universe came the "infinity stones".

[@AbitofEverything4U]

​@@MotherAlsaudThanks so much for the kind words and positive feedback. Yeah, I wish I had been making vids back then as well. Love the Loki series so much. Such a great story, characters, acting, etc!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@rogerroger5171Great point!

[@mequavis]

the branches connect to other branches, that is what exposes the universe to other universes, it is the timeline branches of a universe that can connect and intersect with redlined timeline branches of other universes. they create pathways from universe to universe for the kangs to travel. they become the anchors... the tva keeps the timeline as a singular timeline and the loom weaves into into an ouros boros infinite circle, so it never has any connection's to any other universe except for itself. always, unless a timeline redlines and intersects another redline of another universe. which is what is about to happen.

[@MarioSonicBee]

I’m not gonna lie, this idea you had was EXACTLY the way I understood the multiverse and timelines. The TVA wasn’t trying to stop the multiverse from existing but rather they were keeping their universe isolated from all the others. This lines up with the first Doctor Strange movie as well as the Ancient One references the multiverse way before Loki and Phase 4 did. I do got a couple questions like how does Peter B being from 616b and the comic universe as a whole work in this multiverse but at least the MCU got itself right.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I love the fact that we landed on the same understanding of things. That's awesome! And I agree, the Spider-Verse movies need to address the PBP and 616b dilemma with the comics. That is strange. Hopefully BTSV will give us some clarity!

[@QuoteBlink]

I could never be the winner of the contest because if he choose me as the winner, it wouldn't be random. I'm here for all time. Always.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Nicely done!

[@skistorm739]

@@AbitofEverything4U maybe sacred timeline combine timelines and multiverse paradox, time loop why the infinity stones exist the stones are paradox like in sonic prime

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@skistorm739Could be...definitely an interesting theory!

[@Kompatainment]

Let's be honest. The writers just contradicted each other because of bad communication. However I'm glad that there are people like you doing their best to make sense of all that. And it seems that at least Michael Waldron now tries to establish some consistency. As the writer of _Loki, Multiverse of Madness_ and _Secret Wars_ he should be more involved in projects like _What if...?_ to avoid any further confusion.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Well said...I think the writers of What If tried to use some of the same vernacular that the Loki series used, and in the process made it more confusing by accident. However, I do think it can all be reconciled, but it just takes some mental gymnastics here and there. I agree, I hope that Waldron is helping with some of the scripts going forward and that he's written a "Bible" for the multiversal concepts, so that others can use it!

[@gmjjjones]

There is an interview confirming that what-if and loki were in production at the same time and absolute/nexus point happened because absolute was the original term and when it got changed in loki, the news never traveled because no one honestly thought one word in one show would cause the entire house of cards to fall 😂 I don't know about the other discrepancies but they did clarify absolute point and nexus event are the same thing, so... I can't say you're wrong lol

[@escandersanchez65]

What if happens after loki..but is between universes

[@AbitofEverything4U]

​@@gmjjjones Yeah, that makes sense. I agree, who would have thought a simple word would be so important!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

​@@escandersanchez65 Right...Loki deals with only one universe (the 616 sacred timeline) and it's branching timelines, while What If deals with multiple universes!

[@sneakernickel]

Kang wasn't "killed by ants" he was carried away by them temporarily. The final fight, which resulted in him getting sucked into the multiversal engine core was between Kang, Scott, and Hope.

[@MASTERPIECEFROMGOD]

So does that kang come back in loki or kangDynasty ??

[@Ptmjeager]

@@MASTERPIECEFROMGODnot in Loki but in kang dynasty , that’s a long wait so hopefully he Weill appear in F4 but that’s unlikely

[@SuperD00D]

@@MASTERPIECEFROMGODin none lol

[@SuperD00D]

@@Ptmjeagerim honestly happier with RDJ Doom like idec

[@MASTERPIECEFROMGOD]

@@SuperD00D don’t remind me 😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔

[@onftbb]

This has got to be the most logical description of the Marvel Multiverse rules I’ve ever heard. Very confusing… but internally consistent which is very important.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, I agree...it's a bit confusing at first, but I'll give Marvel credit that it does seem to be internally consistent and it creates a very cool view of the multiverse. Really loving this season of Loki so far!

[@bobparker9298]

Yes. This just captured all the random, confusing threads in my mind and fit them into a working model...kind of like a loom for MCU theory (lol). Thank you for this.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@bobparker9298Love the loom call out. Nicely done!

[@annebilous3550]

I agree with this so strongly, that I wish this video would go viral amongst the MCU community. In case it’s not what they were implying with the branches also being designated 616, then the hope is someone at Marvel would see it and adopt the idea as canon. Fingers crossed this is where they are going with it

[@AbitofEverything4U]

​@@annebilous3550Thanks for your kind words and positive feedback. Yeah, this multiversal model makes a ton of sense to me and I really do hope it's the direction Marvel ends up going. Thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your feedback. I truly appreciate it!

[@adrianporter5749]

The fact that the branches are labeled 616 makes sense because of What If. What If is placed after Loki on the timeline, meaning that variants of the 616 universe can now exist. That’s why every What If episode shows the MCU timeline as normal until a certain point. 838 is not one of them. That universe has WAAAY too many changes- no Steve Rogers, the F4 and X-Men exist already, Mordo is good, Ultron worked, Wanda had actual kids? That’s a universe, not a timeline. So the Quantum Realm and TemPads can only used for timelines, but unique things are needed to cross the universes (Chavez’s powers, the NWH spell, probably Kang’s tech) I think this also explains why as soon as the spell breaks- LITERALLY THOUSANDS of variants and universes are visible. It’s like the MCU made itself visible to all the universes in that moment. But that was undone. It is THAT that HWR was trying to prevent. Earth 616 has been hidden, but now it’s like it’s emitting a massive energy surge- one all the Kangs will see. Earth 616 wasn’t ever in danger of becoming a multiverse. The danger was the multiverse finding it. Which it’s about to.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Love it! That's a great summary of things. And I suspect that by the end of Loki S2, the loom will quit working and that's why the sacred timeline will be exposed to the multiverse. Love how you summarized it all!

[@RhapsodyInBlaah]

This is at best a post hoc retcon to explain the paint universe. They’re using the nonsense introduced in Loki to ultimately launch an MCU that starts off including mutants and the FF.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

​@@RhapsodyInBlaahLOL...that's a great way to look at it!

[@seanleonard7789]

I'm loving this season so far I love how fast paced it is and that every joke hits perfectly

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I agree...been such a great season so far. Can't wait for the next episode to drop!

[@MysteryClasses]

You explained it perfectly !! Nailed it man, Everyone on youtube was talking about universe creating from timelienes and it was soo irritating to hear !! Thanks to you.. I hope people will see to it..

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks so much! Yeah, I really had fun trying to put everything together. It made me all the more excited for What If and for the rest of the multiverse saga!

[@nuvjoti]

The way I reconcile all this is if timelines are indeed technically a universe, but universes that are stacked on top of each other. A universe like 838 or paint dimension is a wholly different universe but the branch timelines that Loki and co travel to are also different universes but we can use the term timeline to describe them because they’re all stacked alongside 616.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Right...I think the key to all of this is there is a significant distinction between a branched timeline off of a universe vs. a completely unique universe. A branched timeline is, in a way, it's own universe, but it is tethered to the original universe. While a separate universe has it's own origin point (big bang) and thus it's own physics. That sure seems to be where Marvel is going with all of this. Great feedback!

[@UltimateQball]

You see how you used timeline and universe interchangeably, similar to what MCU is doing. MCU needs to do better with explaining their concept. I here you, but here's some potential major plotholes: first off MCU didn't mention big bangs, so we need to stop referencing outside sources and try to force it in the MCU. MCU didn't mention big bangs, maybe that's what they're going with ending Loki Season 2. But hypothetically, if their are multiple big bangs in the MCU, why would isolating the Sacred Timeline just suddenly stop the Multiversal War? Majority of the other Kangs should be dead now, but yet they're alive. I think they've been reborn, and no matter how you shape it, they are reborn from the Sacred Timeline. He Who Remains literally managed the flow of time, killed off the existing Kangs by weaponizing Alioth. These infinite of Kangs are going to be reborn, which is what He Who Remains said will happen is Sykvie killed him. Also one of the Kangs, in Antman 3 post credit, said We Built this which means Kang built the multiverse (which means it's not random big bangs). Those big bangs are not random, they have to derive from the main source. Kang literally said we built this. This excites me because I think episodes 5 and 6 of Loki, were going to see this play off, rebirth of Kangs and I think it's gonna tie into what we saw in Antman 3, this is a perfect way of how they can end the show with no cliffhangers while giving us more menacing Kang storyline.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

​@@UltimateQball I definitely agree that the MCU needs to do better with explaining their concept. But let me try to answer your questions: 1. You mention that the MCU didn't mention big bangs, but I think that they did. In the Eternals movie and Guardians 1, they mention the big bang. Also, Peter alludes to it in Far From Home and even mentions the eternal inflation theory So I think the MCU is leaning into the idea of multiple big bangs that turns the six singularities into the six infinity stones for each universe, meaning each has it's own set of physics. 2. You ask why isolating the Sacred Timeline suddenly stopped the Multiversal War. That's just it...it didn't stop the war. HWR won the war and then hid behind the protection of the loom. So he left the other Kangs to do as they please, but he created his own utopia with no Kangs. 3. You suggest that the Kangs will be reborn, but for me, the biggest wrinkle with that is understanding how the Kang Council retained their memories of HWR and why they were angry with him and wanted to be the ones to kill him. That makes me think that HWR didn't wipe them out, but instead just hid from them via the loom. So the Kang Council has been out there the whole time, but was unable to impact the sacred timeline due to the loom. 4. You are are correct that one of the Kangs says "And if we let them, they will take everything we've built." But I think he's referring to the fact that they manage time for the multiverse (other than the loom, which they couldn't access) and now they fear that the Avengers will find them and kill them, just as HWR was killed (they don't know who killed HWR, but they do fear all the new heroes that have popped up). But that's just my theory on it. I suspect we'll learn more in these last two episodes of Loki. Can't wait for the next one to drop. And thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!

[@Cinesmar]

Good Video!! And thanks for give the answer of the differences between Universes and Timelines!!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

You're welcome. Really appreciate you watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Thanks so much!

[@Cinesmar]

@@AbitofEverything4U You are welcome And that explains many things like: - In No Way Home, Dr Strange and the spell brought out variants from other universes not from alternate timelines - In Quantumania, Kang shows Janet how was the multiverse before with Universes and Timelines - In Multiverse of Madness, Wanda destroys the Darkhold not only in the Multiverse it is possible that destroys his existense in the Timelines Only are two things that make me dude: - In What If...? if Ultron was menace of ALL THE MULTIVERSE why Uatu don´t bring another heroes from other universes like: Magneto, Jean Grey, Black Bolt (838) and Silver Surfer. It's a bit illogical, but what if Ultron wasn't a threat to the Multiverse but to the timelines? Maybe that's why Uatu didn't bring different heroes from other universes. Possibly Uatu couldn't extract heroes like the X-Men, Fantastic Four, Spidey Andrew and Tobey because those are heroes from OTHER UNIVERSES, but what Uatu could do is extract Heroes from different timelines of the MCU - In Across The Spider Verse, Miguel says Miles that its is ALL *put a image from the timeline* he should put many timelines not only one. But apart from that, your explanation resolves most things about the Multiverse and Time Lines. Maybe you could do a second part addressing what I told you about why Uatu didn't extract different heroes and everything related to Across The Spider Verse. And I hope I can win one of those books that I really like the MCU Goodbye :)

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, I always wondered why Uatu only chose that particular team. I think he must have known they each had the necessary skills to be able to defeat Ultron, but it is surprising he didn't pull in more. As for ATSV, my biggest fear is that Sony just put that timeline image in there w/o talking to Marvel first, because they are clearly making each Spider-Man in the Spider-Verse come from a different universe. But perhaps Miguel was just showing how one universe can have multiple timelines, but then explaining that this applies to all universes in the Spider-Verse, which are then wrapped into the Tree of Life and Destiny. I wish ATSV had been more clear, but I think that might be the answer.

[@Merione]

I really like this model. This feels like the best explanation so far. It was kinda hinted back in Season 1 and in MoM, but here they gave us the 616.x clue that finally seems to solve it, so I'm really happy about that. The best metaphore that I can think of to describe this is electrical cables: if you cut a cable open, you'd see many intertwined copper filaments, but all together they still make "one cable" which is (in this case literally!) isolated from the external world, and you can have many different cables, but the filaments inside never interact with one another and can run parallel to each other just fine, unless you intentionally link them together. What seems to be the situation in the Marvel Multiverse, then, is that every universe is its own cable, with its own filaments (the branched timelines that come off of it), but for some reason none of them are isolated. It's like a bunch of exposed electrical wires all over the floor and electricity is running wild between all of them (the Multiversal War). Then, HWR took his own "cable" off the floor, put a big rubber band all around it and now it's an isolated cable that can run independently from all the others. But it's only a temporary fix, because on the outside all the other cables are still exposed, and electricity is still running. My dad's mind (an electrician) would blow up if he ever saw a situation like that lol! Now, to explain the Miss Minutes confusion that you mentioned at around 8:50, I think it kinda makes sense that she used the word "timeline" in place of "universe", because if this model is true, then each universe has to have one "master" timeline that then can branch off because of Nexus events. So in the context of the Multiversal War, I think it's kinda fair to say that multiple "timelines" battled each other for supremacy, and by "timeline" she's only referring to the main one that defines the universe. Or maybe it's just propaganda, as you said haha! In any case, I'd much rather they used the correct word "universe" there, but you can still explain it this way. My main question at this pont is about the numbering system. We saw that within the same universe, you can refer to the main timeline as, say, "Earth-616", and to its branches as "Earth-616.1", "Earth-616.2", etc. But how does a *universe* get its number? You'd think the people on the Sacred Timeline would refer to their own universe as number 1, and then maybe label the other universes as number 2, number 3, etc, as they discover them. But as far as we know everyone seems to agree that the Sacred Timeline is 616, including the people within Earth-616 itself and the people in Earth-838 that we met in Multiverse of Madness. In that movie there's even a line by Dr. Palmer that said something along the lines of "We're in universe 838 now and we labeled your universe 616", as if it's a matter of common knowledge. You know, everyone does that, why are you surprised? Lol! But does that mean that by pure coincidence they all came up with the same number? Or maybe they're all counting from the same starting point? Maybe there's a inherent "structure" within the Multiverse that allows everyone to count the universes in the same way? Or maybe they're somehow counting the universes in order of creation and our universe happened to be the 616th one to be created? Of course, out of universe, I understand that they had to make it consistent to avoid confusion in the audience, but in universe I truly have no idea of how this would work and would love an explanation by Marvel.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Great comments. Love the electrical cable analogy. Brilliant (insert Collector clapping meme). Also like the Miss Minutes explanation. Nicely done! As for the universe numbering, that's an excellent question. I wonder if Marvel will ever give us an in-universe explanation for that. Hey, Christine Palmer, tell us your secret. lol!

[@ankurdesai8370]

well, the way a universe gets its number is that marvel names them. sometimes writers sometimes editors, sometimes someone else. That designation is the official/ actual designation. In universe the characters never refer to their universes as "earth-zzz" Organizations that operate in the multiverse or want to take over it (Kang's empire) don't really use reality numbers. Except the TVA. Even the TVA who monitors all realities in comics just have the number the company came up with, without an actual explanation of where the number came from (TVA also breaks the 4th wall at times) In the movies they had to spell it out for the audience (cause they can't type it in a text box on page) so they made Dr. palmer say it to us It has been explained that what Dr. palmer said was the reality monitoring system her universe came up with and therefore it is applicable only to her universe and is not official at all (so MCU is not "616", which it truly isn't as the number given by marvel the company is "199999")(only palmer's universe calls MCU 616) (Palmer's universe was named 838 by the company, as it was invented for the movie) And this is the explanation marvel has followed earlier too, if anytime characters name certain universes, marvel has always maintained that they do so by using their universe's universe naming system and that naming system is only applicable to that universe. so if earth A decides to name itself 90 and another 127, this is only applicable for that universe (earth A) and not at all official or the actual designations of either of those universes. At the end of the day the universe numbers are just so that writers and editors can record the universes and information related to them in a single place (all info about ultimate universe can be found in earth 1610 section) and encyclopedias and glossaries and to help arrange info on the fandom wiki. Thank you for reading my comment 💖 Edits: Basically whenever in universe characters talk about universe names, it is purely for out of story reasons and not for any in universe ones, and at the same time marvel says that these are not actual universe numbers (unless we want them to) Also at this point they have declared the MCU it's own multiverse they still call it earth 199999, but it is its own multiverse now 616 is the actual name of the comic universe (where it all began and every marvel comic story has taken place in, which fans have been following since the 60s)(so it arguably is the main-main universe), so fans didn't really like the fact that MCU was being called 616 (it felt a cheap reference and cheap pandering) But majority of the fans don't care about universe numbers (you are able to recognize a universe without the need for the numbers if it is significant enough) so nobody really complained, it was just "it should be 199999". Once again Thank you for reading💗

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@ankurdesai8370 Excellent feedback on the universe numbering. That makes alot of sense. So in my recent vid on different questions about the multiverse, I posed a theory for where 616 came from. You can check it out in this vid, if interested: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nJO0ooeujpKcY6c.

[@masterpankace9]

I really like these vids breaking things down keep it up bro!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks so much...really appreciate it!

[@heroicboy3668]

It means that Multiversal War is still happening because the multiverse is still there ,only our main universe[616] is hiding from all of the council of kangs

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Right! I agree 100% with that theory. Well said!

[@calvinfisher5886]

Just watched your video on council of kangs. You were spot on. The loom keeps the 616 nice and tidy and not touching any other universes. I would definitely put in on a go fund me for a miss minutes cartoon explanation lol Thank you and subbed

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thx so much for watching the vid and subbing. Yeah, these Loki vids are so much fun to make. Loving this season so far. And I'll be glad to donate to the Miss Minutes Go Fund Me. Nice call on that!

[@arrow9091]

As much as this does seem to track, I feel as though this wildly increases the scale of the multiversal war. If the TVA only holds domain over the 616 universe, then theoretically that means that without the TVA there are Kangs in timelines 616.1, 616.2, 616.3, and so on, AND Kangs in 838.1, 838.2, 838.3, and so on for most (if not every) conceivable universe. That's a lot of Kangs!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yes, I think the idea is that there are a ridiculous number of Kangs. I suspect, however, that the Kang Council leaders (the big 3) probably intercept the Kangs early enough to indoctrinate them into being part of the overall council membership. Otherwise, all of the Kangs would likely kill each other in the process. But yeah, even w/o 616.1, 616.2, 616.3, etc creating a Kang, we still have infinite universes in the multiverse, so that are a crud load of Kangs. Hoo boy!

[@idefyseven]

Oh my God thank you so much this clears up so much misconception that I have had about what's going on in phase 4. You got a new follower

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks so much for the kind words and for supporting the channel. I'm loving Loki so far. Been such a great series!

[@idefyseven]

@@AbitofEverything4U yeah the acting this season has been phenomenal

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Soooo good!

[@MattPerk7]

Very good video. It's very helpful that they put those distinctions so that we could see exactly how they define it. It's a pet peeve of mine when people say that "ants defeated Kang" in Quantumania. First of all, they were highly modified ants in the quantum realm, given prosthetic intelligence and an insane amount of time to evolve with it. I can't even tell how many of them there were, it had to have been hundreds, and they were all larger than man in the quantum realm. These weren't just ants. With that being said, they did not defeat Kang, they only slowed him down for a few minutes. That's a lot more impressive than people give Kang credit for. I feel like people just want quanta Mania to be a bad movie and find whatever reason they can to call it one. Actually, I think it's one of the better Marvel movies post Endgame.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yes, I agree, I love that Marvel is giving us the clues we need to piece this all together. And good point about Quantumania. I think it's alot better movie than the reviews indicated and it gets alot of unwarranted hate. Sorry for joking about the ants, as I agree, those were not regular ants but were very highly evolved species at that point. I think that people will come to look more fondly on Quantumania as the multiverse saga continues to unfold. It fits in very well with the new info from Loki Season 2 and gets me all the more excited for the future entries, such as Deadpool 3!

[@mayo4660]

love your summory expecially with the diagram, it makes it so much more clear and easy to understand

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks...those type of diagrams sure do help me, as it is pretty confusing at times without them. Thx for the feedback on the vid!

[@mayo4660]

@@AbitofEverything4U Yeah it sometimes seems asbif you'd beed a PHD for it 😂

[@AbitofEverything4U]

LOL...indeed!

[@dadaaxel3189]

If the timeline passing the redline doesn’t signify it becoming a universe, then what does it signify? So I guess that the timelines in what if are those in which a nexus event isn’t pruned?

[@mydoggylives]

I was under the impression that the red lines indicated when a timeline branch would create a new Kang, and therefore HWR would have that branch pruned so that wouldn't happen. His whole mission was to prevent more Kangs from appearing and causing the war all over again.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I think a timeline that passes the red line moves from being a simple nexus event that can be pruned and turns into a full timeline that could potentially produce a new Kang. @mydoggylives said it very well in their comment, too. Hope that helps. We'll have to wait and see if we get further confirmation, but it doesn't seem like a timeline can graduate into a new universe. As for What If, it seems to be dealing only with unique universes that differ from other universes due to a single decision. So it seems alot like a nexus event, but it's happening in a separate universe altogether. I really wish they had made it more clear in What If, but I think that's what's going on. I really hope What If season 2 helps clarify things abit. Anyway, thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@mydoggylivesWell said...that's my thought as well!

[@yakstravaganza]

Thanks for this! Much clearer now. It's nice to know that you're updating your models and theories as more mcu information becomes available....you know, scientist-style! With hypothesis, and evidence, and what-have-you. I'm sure it can be frustrating and confusing and rewarding all at once. Thanks for all your hard work and effort! 😊

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks! That's a great explanation of how each new fact updates the model. I hope I've finally got it down correctly, but it may well change again as we learn more. But it sure helps to try to nail down as much as we can with each new clue and each new bit of evidence!

[@pizzatime1146]

For me personally, timelines make a bit more sense for like What If storylines. But universes make more sense for other cases like No Way Home. But that's just my opinion

[@lucagz6481]

Yeah, What If bases itself on the idea we are watching Branches of Earth-616 after what happened in Loki. NWH and MoM deal with other Universes.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Right! I am really surprised they decided to make the What If story be about different universes instead of timelines. But there is no doubt that they use that universe and multiverse language in each episode. I'd love to know their reasoning for doing that!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

​@@lucagz6481 Exactly! It sure seemed like different timelines is what they were setting the show up to be. It's kinda bizarre that they instead decided to present it as different universes, tbh.

[@JulianRog]

Love the video as always! You always have something different and new to offer! 😀

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks so much...really appreciate it!

[@giovannigiovanni.7220]

Looks like they are finally following the traditional way that timeline and alternate universe are two different things. Loki season 2 still has a bit more to go on if they can keep this consistent. Let's not forget that time loop/ouroboros is a factor in this too which the 12 Monkeys tv show comes to mind when I think of this.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yes, I'm so glad they finally seem to be distinguishing between a timeline and a universe. That was a very welcome development. And I agree, the time loop/ouroboros is going to be interesting to see how it all plays out. 12 Monkeys is a good analogy for what may be coming!

[@korgon7811]

This has made everything make so much more sense now regarding the multiverse, thank you

[@AbitofEverything4U]

My pleasure! Yeah, this really helped me to visualize it this way. Glad it help you as well!

[@mds_main]

Yeah, they really made the time travel and multiverse stuff more complicated than it needed to be. Do you remember that scene from the first GotG movie where the Collector explained the infinity stones? I think we need a scene like that that fully explains all of this, and Loki season 2 would be the ideal place to put it (ideally they would have put it in season 1, but alas).

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I would love it if they give us a scene that breaks it all down. I suspect instead that we will get small pieces at a time, which is why I promise to keep making vids that attempt to put the pieces together. I think by the end of season 2 of Loki, it will all have been revealed. Fingers crossed!

[@sourangshu7731]

Love u Best explaination video. The pace is perfert. The recaps are perfect. Everything is a perfect.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks so much. I truly do appreciate that!

[@TheKonradhehe]

I have a theory that TVA prunded only those timelines that could create a new Kang. He Who Remains uses Miss Minutes (it's just a program) to decide which timelines to prune. I believe that there exist branches like those created by avengers or agents of shield because in those Kang doesn't exist and won't be born for some reason. Of course TVA is told that these branches were ment to happen but I think it's a He Who Remains' lie.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I agree 100% I think you nailed it. In fact, if you haven't seen it yet, I discuss that in the "10 lies about the TVA" vid: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eJC9mIx5isRpfsU. I think your theory is dead on!

[@lucagz6481]

It's actually correct! Head-writer Michael Waldron (and writer of MoM) did explain that: "There’s always like different permutations and instances happening. The TVA has their own barometer, their own gauge of what constitutes a deviation from the baseline, the way it’s supposed to go. The way it went that produced He Who Remains. That is their baseline. And so they are constantly calculating, “Okay, we see how time has always...” If you zoomed in on the timeline, it wouldn’t necessarily look like a straight line. It might look like almost the intertwined strands of a rope fluctuating and spiking here and there. When it becomes a problem for the TVA is when, according to their own rules, when could something branch off in a way that it could actually produce a new timeline that could produce a new version of He Who Remains? That is the practical thing that they’re guarding against. Does that answer your question?"

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@lucagz6481 Well said!

[@thatsmsrivers]

I watched this 3 times already, this is the 4th and I just saw the reference about the contest! 😂 Going in for the 4th view, great analysis! 💪🏾

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Glad you saw the mention of the contest. Best of luck on it! And thx for watching the vid and sharing your feedback. Really appreciate it!

[@thatsmsrivers]

@@AbitofEverything4U I don’t know how you pieced this all together and I’m positive I will be watching again because I’m literally like “Wait, Wait, Wait….”(And Rewind!) thank you for the “Summary of the situation so far” totally new lens for the series now. 🤓

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, my mind works alot better when I lay everything out in an orderly fashion. Will be fun to see where the series goes from here!

[@The_Surf]

I feel like I have a much better grasp on the sacred timeline and the multiverse now. See I always thought the two black holes in s1ep6 was showing that there’s multiple universes in the sacred timeline, such as a universe where Asgardians were animals since we have alligator Loki. However after the branches were bombed in s2, it showed they’re all branches of the 616 universe. Which I can accept that the sacred timeline is just allowed branches of 616, but then why did they show the two black holes? I mean obviously the meta reason for all of these questions is just inconsistent writing behind the scenes of all these projects, but it really sucks trying to put it all together.

[@The_Surf]

Oh wait, you’re saying that once it zooms inside of the second black hole and cuts to the multiple timelines that comprise the sacred timeline, it’s showing that first black hole wasn’t part of the sacred timeline, and that the second black hole was the beginning of 616?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Sorry for the delayed reply, but you said it perfectly in your reply. That's exactly what I think is happening.

[@The_Surf]

@@AbitofEverything4U I like that so much more than how I had interpreted it. I thought it was showing the first black hole, then the second one, then the “strands” of the sacred timeline as a way of showing that the two black holes were two universes in the sacred timeline and the “strands” were all of them. I really like the interpretation you bring up and I think it makes a load of sense!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

​@@The_SurfYeah, it finally clicked for me when I viewed it as two different universes. Hopefully they will keep giving us more and more clues to the bigger picture as the season unfolds!

[@beastslayer9270]

Wait. Plz explain me in more details bcz i still believe this that sacred consist of multiple universe like the universe in which loki was an alligator, and a lot of universes which was shown in Dr strange multiverse of madness.

[@doriandaykin2747]

You're like the only person I trust to make sense of stuff like this lol

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks...really appreciate that. But that said, feel free to challenge my assumptions anytime you think I get something wrong. I'm always open to that!

[@ATRAXXUSA]

I think reality is an umbrella term for universes and timelines. Think about the meaning of the word, “Reality”. Reality is essentially a perceived existence so both universes and timelines consist of realities. Realities are what the people in those timelines and universes experience.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Well said! I mean, we saw it being used for both timelines and universes, so it is really just a term for a person's perceived reality. Totally agree!

[@hayashi86]

Thank you for the detailed and clear explanation! I understand better now! :D

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks so much! Yeah, it also helped me to put it all together like that!

[@xiongrey19]

With the existence of multiple timelines comprising 616 that can be as different as having many different lokis (even an aligator), a single universe seems to function as a kind of local multiverse. Each sharing the same big bang.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I agree...excellent point! It seems the biggest differences are that you can jump between timelines but not between universes (other than America, ofc) and also that timelines in a universe don't cause incursions with each other, but two universes can cause incursions with each other.

[@minchinator]

Loving your channel - Thank you

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks so much...really appreciate that!

[@Ravensnation94]

I always thought it was pretty obvious. The sacred timeline is millions of timelines woven together. Tva only pruned timeline that produced a Nathaniel. Hence why we had classic loki, Sylvie, kid loki etc that were all variants on the sacred timeline

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, it seems pretty well laid out to me as well...although, I've gotten tons of comments with people having different questions, so it sounds like this vid was definitely needed. Thanks so much for watching it and leaving your feedback on it. Truly appreciate it!

[@Ravensnation94]

@@AbitofEverything4U My question is how long was He who remains in the citadel at the end of time. He was legit crazy and socially awkward it had to be millions of years from his perspective right? He says “I’m older.. I’m older than I look”

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, I think you're right...it was "eons" as he explained, so it was likely millions of years. That would make anyone crazy!

[@lukemolloy1289]

I'm loving this channel :)

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks so much! Really appreciate it!

[@madhavgupta2002]

my thoughts before watching the video: HHR isolated 616 1. by using that loom to ensure no branches in the ends of timeline 2. by making TVA prune any timelines branching from within the loop farther from the red line (which will probably make another kang?) So, it is possible to jump between the timelines of 616 like in AoS, Endgame But, its not possible to jump between Univeses using this traditional Quantum Realm Approach or TVA approach, (with the exception of Darkhold or America) This would only be possible if branches of two or more universes connect somehow which happenened: 1. in the end of Loki Season 1, 2. by travelling between universes (like Dr. Strange in MoM or by using that Forbidden Spell maybe) doing so causes what we call know as incursions as Reed Explains "boundary between the universes erode causing total anihilation of one or both" So, the battle between univeses , i.e. the multiveral wars occur not due to supremacy or ruling multiple Universes but to save their own universe from incursion (like Kang showed in his room in Quantummania thought that infographic) and destroying the other one like we say in 2015 Secret Wars comics. it all makes sense now...

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Great summary! Love it!

[@calebmahoney2448]

What If - killing, he who remains, is the catalyst for a new universe in the MCU.

[@calebmahoney2448]

Does evidence exist of different universe’s without kang or before kang in the comics? Since he’s from the future but has kind of always existed.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Very interesting theory! At this point, I suspect anything's possible. I mean, the final result of Secret Wars down the line will indeed be a new (or semi-new) universe. I think they will have to find a way to prevent any future Kangs, which will be the real heart of the issue, I suspect!

[@dybiosol]

What "isolation" probably means is that HHR both pruned those timelines where Kang could exist and also by creating the Loom he kept all these branches from ever getting exposed/visible to other universes outside.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Perfectly stated! I agree 100%. If you haven't seen this vid, you might check it out: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eJC9mIx5isRpfsU. It goes over all the lies we were told about the TVA in the first season's premier episode and how we have to strip those lies away to be able to know what is really happening. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!

[@dybiosol]

@@AbitofEverything4U Nice. That's good stuff!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks so much!

[@UltimateQball]

And based on your logic this also means he pruned universes of those Kang variants, since he literally was in that multiversal war, eye to eye with all thise Kang variants.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

​@@UltimateQball No, I'm thinking he didn't prune the other Kangs. He won the war and then hid from them behind the protection of the loom.

[@jonathanpardoe6549]

I’m loving the in-depth analysis

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks! Had alot of fun putting this together!

[@collapsingspace]

Ok, if this is the case then: 1. Scott lang travelled to (and came back from) a different universe through quantum realm, assuming the kang stuck there was from a different universe (as you depicted in your diagram). you so can travel universes through quantum realm or if your friends with Chavez. 2. Branches going beyond the red line in TVA monitor are practically going into region/reach of other universes and hence getting exposed to their kangs. 3. Incursion could now mean both collision b/w two timelines of same universe and collision of timelines of different universe (Mega Incursion?! 🥶) 4. How the hell would a paint Kang or a Lego kang fight in a war with Human Kang, makes me wonder if the Kang council is made up of kangs from different universes or just kang from different timelines of 616. (remember Loki will show us Victor timely in some branch of 616 as potential threat at some point in S02) 5. We still don't know where the TVA is located? is there just one TVA for all universes. Is there one TVA in just our universe setup by our good KANG? TVA has its own timeline? How far back it goes?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Fantastic questions. Okay, I'll take a stab at them, but some of them may need more to be revealed to know the answer for sure. 1. I am still not sure what happened to Scott. Even putting this video aside for the moment, the main reason I think he didn't go to a different universe is that if it was a universe that already had a Scott lang in it, then he would run into himself. And if it was a universe that never had a Scott, then people would not know him...or maybe a universe where Scott died, then someone would have said "dude, you're dead!". So I really like the idea that he traveled to a new universe, but it just doesn't fit very well with the end of the movie. I could see him traveling to a new timeline (i.e. creating a new branch off 616), but I just can't wrap my head around him going to a new universe. 2. Yes, you could be correct that branches going beyond the red line in the TVA monitor are practically going into the region/reach of other universes and hence getting exposed to their kangs. Or, they are simply too much for the loom to manage, and so the loom will shut down entirely which exposes everyone to Kang. 3. You could be right that an incursion could now mean both collisions b/w two timelines of the same universe and collisions of timelines of different universes. Although, I wonder if the tethering of timelines keeps incursions from happening between timelines of the same universe. It sorta feel like an incursion is two different universes colliding, since Waldron made it sound like timelines are connected and tethered to their original universe, so they may not be an issue for incursions. 4. I have no clue how a Kang or a Lego kang would fight in a war with Human Kang, but if anyone can make it happen, Feige can. lol! I do think that the Kang council is made up of kangs from different universes, as it seems each universe has the potential to spawn a new Kang (or maybe many Kangs!) and that is where they are coming from. Remember that HWR said that he encountered the Kangs from other universes in his speech in S1 E6. As for Victor timely, I suspect he is indeed in a branch of 616 (or he even be in the main 616 timeline) and that is isn't an issue since he isn't a threat. In fact, my guess is that he is an ancestor of HWR. 5. I sooooooo want to learn where the TVA is located. I do think, however, that we are seeing that the current TVA is just for the 616 universe. If there is another TVA for the other universes, then it would be run by the Kang Council and would likely operate much differently. I'm also interested to know more about the timeline for the TVA, which I think will be revealed as the season proceeds along. Fantastic feedback on the vid. Thanks so much for taking the time to write it all out!

[@titusmushinge8328]

So what you are saying is that the sacred timeline is a single universe with multiple timelines which are not universes themselves, so each universe can branch off into different timelines

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yes, perfectly stated! That's what I think Waldron was explaining and what the Loki show has been illustrating. Hopefully we keep learning more and more as the series progresses. Can't wait for the next episode to drop!

[@titusmushinge8328]

@@AbitofEverything4U That's really cool

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, I really like that model as well!

[@RexSalazar-h5f]

MCU somehow manage to explore the multiverse before going to explore different galaxy

[@echo_z319]

cuz nobody is interested in all that lol. it would be the same as doing titan, knowhere, xandar, sakaar etc multiple times

[@AbitofEverything4U]

LOL...excellent observation!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

​@@echo_z319 Yeah, I suspect they felt that the Guardians movies did enough exploring of the galaxy. Plus, Thor and Captain Marvel both did abit as well.

[@BillSaggar]

I enjoy your long stuff. Thanks.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Really appreciate that. Thanks so much!

[@Celebok]

Well, that just threw my understanding of timelines and universes out the window! But I get it now, thanks to the way you illustrated it in this video. I guess we have to assume that whenever they refer to other universes, they actually mean other universes, like when Dr. Strange deals with them in No Way Home and Multiverse of Madness, and everything in What If. That would explain the Infinity Stones from other universes having different properties, as mentioned in the What If season finale. But it's interesting now to think that Loki has thus far only dealt with timeline branches within 616. Now I'm really curious to see if the Council of Kangs consists of a mixture of Kangs from multiple universes and multiple branches of each universe. And I wonder if there are multiple TVAs, each for its own universe. And of course, this goes back to the question of whether there's more than one Quantum Realm. Okay, that's it, my brain just stopped.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, this also blew my mind abit. I think you described things perfectly. I love how they keep unpacking the mystery in each new episode of Loki. This season has been amazing!

[@UltimateQball]

That's not true, you literally see variants of Loki that looks completely different from the original Loki. You see a frog Thor. This is all concepts of parallel universes. The TVA has been going to parallel universes. How can you have a female loki, branch from 616 universe. Nah she came from a parallel universe.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

​@@UltimateQball I did a short vid on why we have so many different Loki variants, in case you are interested: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJOcYqOClp6bf7s. As for Thor, I suspect something similar happened as in the comics where the Loki of that universe cast a spell and turned him into Throg.

[@Celebok]

@@UltimateQball There's a video on this channel that addresses that question. The simplest theory is that there was a nexus event that determined who or what kind of being Odin adopted.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

​@@CelebokWell said...I think that works as a good solution. And I'm also fine if they go with the idea that the universe wanted to break free from the loom, so created chaos via the Loki variants. I think both of those work well to explain it.

[@LachlanMT]

It definitely makes sense when you think about it, like He who remains probably originated from a branch of the MCU timeline and then once he isolated his timeline and managed the flow of time he decided to pick the branch where his variant is just a candle maker in the 18th century, allowing him to know that theres no chance of him becoming too powerful

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Right...that makes a lot of sense. Love it!

[@UltimateQball]

You can use this logic and still say that in the MCU, timelines and universes are interchangeably the same though. The TVA was pruning branched timelines, and we can clearly see they went to alternate universes. Its all the same and makes up the multiverse.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

​@@UltimateQballig for me, the Michael Waldron quote from the MoM Assembled episode sums it up perfectly: "It's something that we've established is that it's impossible, near impossible to travel from one universe to another. In Loki, you can kind of hop from one time line branch to another, but you've gotta be anchored to some original time line. What America can do is, she can jump from one universe to another one. She can literally do the impossible." He of course wrote both Loki and MoM, so he understands how both worked, and he seems to indicate that Loki's series was dealing with one universe (616) and branched timelines off of it, while 838 was a separate and disconnected universe. If there isn't a distinction between the timeline branches off of 616 and the disconnected 838 universe, then America's powers seem to be meaningless. So yeah, I hope Marvel continues to explain how all of this fits together. And I really appreciate you watching the vid and leaving your thoughts on it. Thx so much!

[@okryansure]

Here's where I get confused though... and maybe @AbitofEverything4U can chime in... When HWR isolated the 616 universe, assuming there was one primary timeline of 616 that all others branched from, which branch did HWR come from and why aren't there tons of others from tons of other 616 branches? If Kangs are the ones who discover the multiverse and how to interact between universes, they definitely would also know how to interact between branches in their own universe, meaning there would be like a whole team of 616 HWRs running the show... right? Or fight with one another? All within the isolated 616? I mean the HWR we see in Loki is sitting at the end of time all by himself. Where are the other timeline copies of him? Gosh this all hurts my brain. But I can't stop thinking about it. Lol

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Good question...assuming I correctly understand what you are asking (my apologies if not), then I'll throw out a few thoughts: 1. We never learned the origin of HWR...in other words, what universe he came from. But my assumption is that he came from 616 and used it as his template for the sacred timeline. 2. According to Michael Waldron, HWR's primary reason for pruning branches was to prevent any branches that would result in a new Kang inside the loom. So HWR didn't care about the chaos outside of the loom that the rest of the Kang Council might be causing, but he was very interesting in preventing a new Kang from appearing on a branch inside the loom. 3. After Loki S2's finale when Loki takes over managing the tree, I suspect that the TVA is now responsible for dealing with any new Kangs that pop-up in that tree. I believe the tree is the 616 universe (the sacred timeline) and any universes branching off that. So whereas HWR used to be responsible for pruning any branches that created a Kang, now the TVA is monitoring any branches that create a new Kang. What they are doing with those Kangs is unknown, but they might be pruning them or maybe they are capturing them. We never really got that answer. Hope that helps!

[@gingerJay]

timeline? universe? world? dimension? reality? they are all used interchangeably in marvel and it’s super confusing lol

[@echo_z319]

universe being equal to timeline actually simplifies it, world and reality is self explanatory, dimension was only messed up by Jeff Loveness but still refers to places with different rules of time/space

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yep...I agree. I'm trying my best to sort it all out, but it is abit confusing, tbh.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

​@@echo_z319 Yep, for the longest time I assumed that universe and timeline were the same thing. But after Loki S2 E2 and the labeling of the branches, combined with the dual black holes in Loki S1 E6 and finally the Waldron quote from the MoM Assembled episode, I've decide that they must be different concepts. We'll see if they continue to unpack this mystery as Loki S2 proceeds along!

[@echo_z319]

@@AbitofEverything4U yeah, cant believe ep3 is already coming out tmr, feels like we just got the first episode a few days ago

[@AbitofEverything4U]

ikr?

[@skgaming_69]

They didnt try to keep our universe separate from multiverse, they kept only one timeline for our and other universes, which made sacred timeline, separate (isolated) from branched timelines, as they pruned all branches

[@AbitofEverything4U]

That's certainly a valid theory, but I just think there are so many indications that HWR didn't destroy the rest of the multiverse but instead used the loom to basically hide from it. That's my theory at least. Hopefully we'll find out more as the multiverse saga continues to unfold!

[@bizzybrown8372]

So how did the other Kangs conquer their universes . I assume they would have the same problem with multiple timelines branching out from their universe

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I think we saw part of the answer in Quantumania, in that the exiled Kang was willing to destroy other timelines and universes that got in his way. My guess is that the Kang Council kills off any threats to their empire. And that's why the sacred timeline now concerns them. It was hidden from them via the loom, but after it is exposed, they will want to go after the heroes in 616 because they have "touched the multiverse."

[@bizzybrown8372]

@@AbitofEverything4U ahh I see like this counsel had their own means off gardening and He Who Remains chose to isolate his , while Kang chose to get his hands dirty and wipe out timelines personally . But there is a theory He Who Remains and Kang the Conqueror are the same variant at different points in his timeline. It’s possible this was his OG way of destroying branches and somehow he was changed after being exposed to the Heart of Forever aka the Multiversal Core from Quantumania . Just speculating but I remember that Kang ALSO was inclined to OFFER people an opportunity to “Live their best life of the timeline “ referring to what he told Janet.. and Scott . Also referring to what He Who Remains offered Loki and Sylvie via Ms Minutes before they encountered HWR. Just ponder that for a moment .

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, I've heard that theory that the Kang from QM and HWR are the same. I mean, it could be, but it sure seems like they have very different personalities, so I feel they won't end up being the same.

[@bizzybrown8372]

@@AbitofEverything4U I agree I’m saying it’s possible him being exposed the multiverse on a cellular level could have given him an epiphany or he probably had enough time alone to form a better plan to defeat his rivals and “save” the multiverse

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yep, anything's possible!

[@streakingclothed]

You’re doing an excellent job making sense of all thisb

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks so much...really appreciate it!

[@onftbb]

This season is going pretty well! Loki might just overtake WandaVision as my favourite MCU TV show 😳

[@kalinknight7208]

Stop it you gotta stay strong 💪 lol jk I love wandavision tho

[@AbitofEverything4U]

It's getting pretty close. WV is still my fav, but this season is amazing so far!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@kalinknight7208 Love WV so much!

[@kalinknight7208]

@@AbitofEverything4U great videos btw

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@kalinknight7208 Thanks so much!

[@jaab3936]

wow you blow my mind and gave me something i needed thanks man

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, Loki 2x02 really changed the entire way I'm viewing things. Love how they keep slowly unpacking everything little by little. Such a great series!

[@augustmyers339]

I love the idea that if a universe is different enough i.e. the paint universe, there are different infinity stones, like a color stone or a texture stone.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, I think that's really cool, too. I love how they have set up the multiverse like this!

[@lifelover0x]

i havent been keeping up mcu since endgame and i got back in but it got SO confusing ! this really answered my questions!! thank you so much you are amazing👌👌

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Awesome! I’m really glad it helped

[@ThatSpeedrunnerGuy]

This has always confused me, im so happy we’ve finally gotten an answer

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, this really feels like it pulls everything together. And I agree, it's confused me as well. Hopefully they keep things consistent going forward, but so far it's all really come together well!

[@krzyszwojciech]

4:34 - what this scene reminds me is the Lee Smolin's cosmological model, where, when a black hole is created, a Big Bang of a new universe happens inside of it, with new set of rules. And on and on it goes.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Interesting! Yeah, that could be the case. I'm definitely convinced now that each universe has it's own origin point (i.e. big bang), especially after watching Loki Season 2, Episode 2. Love how everything is slowly coming together!

[@cameronbaker97]

My understanding is, when a branch is created in the timeline, it becomes a new timeline, then as it continues to exist, over time (no pun intended), it becomes so different from other branch timelines, that it has basically become a different universe all together, and this is the case with every single branch created.

[@echo_z319]

agreed. I think the red line is the point where it becomes its own universe, and now it can create a kang variant who starts another war

[@lucagz6481]

Nope, Branches still remain alternate timelines you can travel to like Sylvie did. The red line means that is fully formed Branch that could potentially connect with the Timeline of another Universe.

[@echo_z319]

@@lucagz6481 in quantumania branches are shown colliding and exploding into eachother, meaning it is its own timeline/universe after a certain point. thats why HWR isolated his timeline; if universes that would eventually create slightly different versions of him cant be created, there wouldnt be another war a slightly different set of events from one timeline ‘connecting’ with another makes no sense lol

[@Marshkoon]

Exactly

[@Marshkoon]

@@lucagz6481that branch timeline is merely a timeline/universe without a designation. Any timeline that spawns from the sacred timeline and allowed to continue growing in its own path becomes its own separate universe

[@Fuar11]

So when the Avengers went back in time, that was a Nexus event that created a branch but the TVA allowed it because it was necessary to save 616. But on that new branch our protagonist Loki caused a Nexus event which branched off of that branch? We have nested branches now?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yes, I think you said that correctly. We can indeed have branches off branches. In fact, if you look at the monitors right before Dox bombed the sacred timeline, you can see branches off of branches forming on the monitor. Pretty cool!

[@iamhim2285]

I’m not the expert by any means but I think you have it now sir. This is the conclusion I came to as well after many hours of trying to make sense of it. Very intriguing topic. I hope Marvel keeps putting this kind of thought into the writing like Waldron did. Keep up the good work!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks for the kind words on the vid! I agree, Waldron did a fantastic job of putting it all together. I love the complexity of the story and the way they are revealing it to us in little bits at a time. Great stuff!

[@profbfc]

It would have been less confusing then if it was called the Sacred Universe and not the sacred timeline. Also, I think Kangthe C, Vic timely and HWR are the same person. So I disagree on that.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, calling it the sacred timeline was confusing right off the bat. That said, we were fed alot of lies by Miss Minutes and Ravonna in the first season of the show. If you haven't seen this vid, you might check it out: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eJC9mIx5isRpfsU. It goes over all the lies we were told about the TVA in the first season's premier episode and how we have to strip those lies away to be able to know what is really happening. A s for Kang the C, Vic Timely and HWR, I do think that Vic and HWR are the same person, but Kang from QM had a very different way of approaching things than HWR, so I feel they are different variants. But I suspect we'll find out as the season continues to unfold. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!

[@ghiggs8389]

It's the sacred timeline within the sacred universe.

[@persephone342]

10th dimensional mathematics!!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@ghiggs8389 Exactly!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

​@@persephone342Indeed...now that's some complexity for ya!

[@Killerfin100]

What a great video! One thing too is that when Quantumania Kang is showing the multiverse, I'm pretty sure what causes incursions is branch timelines getting too big and crashing into another universe, (seeing as they are stacked on top of each other).

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Great point...I'm going to be mentioning that in the next vid in fact. Excellent observation!

[@MatthewKKwan122]

Hope Loki find different variant himselves to stop all Kang

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, a multiversal team of Loki's would be amazing!

[@WindowsPcuser]

By what I think, this universes concept is that the Tva had their own universe and tried to isolate itself form other universes, but when timelines branched it is like a water droplet splitting into 2 which is another way to describe branching, and intentions, characteristics of other timelines becomes complicated which prompted the tva to prune all timeline to keep things simple or some of these timelines might have malicous usage,and these timelines splitted into different universes,which explains more why the tva is isolating themselves from other universes and prevent their own from splitting, thus which explains the universe multiverse,timeline question. Multiverse--Universe--timelines.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yes, I think that's a very good description. What also helped me alot was Waldron's quote from the MoM Assembled episode is very important: "It's something that we've established is that it's impossible, near impossible to travel from one universe to another. In Loki, you can kind of hop from one time line branch to another, but you've gotta be anchored to some original time line. What America can do is, she can jump from one universe to another one. She can literally do the impossible." He of course wrote both Loki and MoM, so he understands how both worked, and he seems to indicate that Loki's series was dealing with one universe (616) and branched timelines off of it, while 838 was a separate and disconnected universe. The distinction between the timeline branches off of 616 and the disconnected 838 universe is what gives America's powers their meaning, it seems. Pretty cool! Really appreciate you watching the vid and leaving your thoughts on it. Thx so much!

[@hunterterrell5735]

I'll be shocked if someone doesn't walk away with a quantum physics degree by the time this season is over 😂 Also, did you know that Endgame's final battle happened yesterday?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

LOL...yeah, we may all become quantum physicists when this season is done. And yeah, crazy to think everyone has come home from Endgame's finale. Welcome back 1/2 of the world...we missed you!

[@hunterterrell5735]

@@AbitofEverything4U exactly and R.I.P. Tony Stark and Natasha Romanoff

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Ikr? We finally caught up to Endgame!

[@allenarceneaux782]

A branching timeline can reach into another universe once it gets past the threshold. That’s the purpose of pruning them. Once the timeline gets that far it now begins to reach another uncovers and that causes the incursion. Or at least one way of causing an incursion. You can also cause it by being in a universe you are not supposed to be in. Because now your are bringing a different temporal energy footprint into it. A footprint that belongs in a different universe.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yes! I love how you said all of that. I totally agree with it all. Nicely summarized!

[@TWD77710]

Very well done video i dont wanna say i told u so but ey i told u so lmaoo. Now that you are caught up the terminology that i use for a version of a character from another timeline within the 616 is variant, but the word i use for a different version of a character from another entire universe is alternate lol, it helps me differentiate them. And then if an alternate or variant character seems to be the main version (assuming a 616 actual version doesnt exist) then i label it as prime, so Kang feom Quantumania for me is Prime Alternate Kang. Anyways i have a question, after this video do u think spiderman no way home dealt with timelines or universes? Like where did the villains and other spidermen come from if multiversal travel is impossible i mean not even Wanda was able to so im guessing they came from 616 but other timelines right?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

lol! Yeah, I felt that until Loki S2 E2 that they hadn't given us any firm indication that a timeline was different from a universe. But the 616.XXX.XXX naming really sold me on it. As for the Spider-Man movies, I'm okay with them being separate universes at this point. I think that works well with the model.

[@IronAudi11]

I feel like if they named the sacred timeline the sacred universe, that would’ve made more sense. Because that’s what a universe is: a collection of tons of different timelines. I still absolutely love this show though

[@lucagz6481]

I think HWR named it the Sacred Timeline to follow the Time-Keepers narration: that the single timelines of the Multiverse were reorganized to follow a singular path.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, the usage of timeline and universe is confusing in the MCU. I think they need a specific term for two disconnected universes (838 and 616) vs. one universe with lots of branched timelines coming off of it (i.e. the 616 universe). That's where the confusion really lies, it seems. I think their model is good, but the terms are not well defined at this point.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

​@@lucagz6481 Yep...I do suspect that's the crux of the issue. HWR wanted people to believe it was a single timeline, so he named it that way, which immediately confused the issue, since in actuality it was also the 616 universe. So the term universe and timeline got off on confusing footing from the start, as they seemed to be synonymous. Then came the understanding there are separate universes (838 vs. 616) and that each universe then has their own branching timelines. Oof. They really need to come up with specific terms!

[@LittleRunt]

Amazing explanation and theories 🔥🔥🔥

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks so much...really appreciate that!

[@sophisticatednebula4236]

Still have a question though, if He Who Remains isolated the 616 Universe from the other universes out there, how did Ant Man find the Quantum Kang? Wouldn't he be out in some other universe, which would be inaccessible to Scott and his gang?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Great question! So based on Loveness' explanation, the quantum realm is the basement of the multiverse, and thus you can enter it from different universes. However, based on Waldron's quote, you can only use the QR to jump between branches off of your own universe. So putting those two concepts together, it sounds like you can enter from any universe (and thus could encounter people from different universes, such as how Janet encountered Kang) but if you leave, you return to your own universe. Let me know what you think. And thx so much for watching the vid and leaving your thoughts. Really appreciate it!

[@sophisticatednebula4236]

@@AbitofEverything4U Thanks for your response!! After leaving my comment I actually went ahead and watched two of your newer videos and had these questions answered, so appreciate it all the more!! What you said makes total sense! I did have a kind of unrelated question though, one that remained even after watching the newer videos. When the sacred timeline was still intact, and managed by HWR, was it a collection of timelines itself? I can't recall if this was ever addressed. If the sacred timeline was ONE timeline, there would be no possibility of an alligator Loki, or old/young Loki, because those would require Nexus events to be more than just "choices". Events would have had to occur very differently over a very different time frame for us to ever encounter such varients. So I had just assumed that the sacred timeline was referring to a collection of timelines that HWR deemed appropriate to keep in the loop.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

​@@sophisticatednebula4236 Great question! So I looked at the question of the Loki variants (especially alligator Loki and Sylvie) in this vid: kzbin.info/www/bejne/m5LFh6SLZsalZtU. I personally like the chaos theory best, as I like the idea that the 616 universe wanted to break free from the loom and created chaos through the Loki variants.

[@sophisticatednebula4236]

@@AbitofEverything4U Just finished watching the video, I couldn't find the bit about Loki Variants, could you let me know the time stamp maybe?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Ugh...I am an idiot...I had two vids with green thumbnails and gave you the wrong one. That said, I do really like the one with the Loki tree explanation, but I truly apologize for giving you the wrong link. I promise this is the right one: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJOcYqOClp6bf7s.

[@kevinosei-wusu5274]

This makes so much sense. But just one problem. How are there 2 Kangs in universe 616? He who remains and kang the conqueror. How is Silvie a variant of loki in the same universe? Cos from this explanation, there should be only one version of loki from different timelines

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Great questions! - Regarding two Kangs, I made this video about that question: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rqqlZKiZebWsftk - Regarding the different Loki's (Alligator, Sylvie, Kid, Old Loki, etc), I made this video about that question: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJOcYqOClp6bf7s. So you are asking all the right questions, as enough people asked them that I felt it made sense to address them in those vids. Also, thx for watching this video and leaving your thoughts. I truly appreciate it!

[@kevinosei-wusu5274]

@@AbitofEverything4U thanks man!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Any time!

[@mehulparmar9976]

we see multiple earths in spiderverse. Are they part of sacred timeline or from entirely different universe?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

So, it's unclear at this point how much Sony and Disney are working together and the directors of ATSV even said that all of the references are "meta" and not meant to really tie into the MCU. I'm hoping that's not true, fwiw. So, assuming ATSV does connect to the MCU, I would imagine that it is an alternate universe with a reality stone that created animated physics. That's why I think it has to be a different universe from 616. I suspect that we will eventually see a crossover with the Spider-Verse, perhaps in Secret Wars, and hopefully they will do more and more to connect the two universes between now and then!

[@herb4243]

Isn’t there a line somewhere in Loki season 1 where they say that a timeline left untouched for too long will transform into its own universe after a while? I may be wrong, I only watched it when it released, but I have a vague memory of that, and it was my personnal explication since then. But honestly yours is pretty decent too.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I don't remember seeing that. I've rewatched Loki recently and I also re-read all of the transcripts to really focus on the lines being said, and I don't think that's there. However, if you do find it, let me know. I'm very open to the idea, I just don't think it's ever been said.

[@herb4243]

I didn’t do much of a research, but I can’t find it unfortunately, most likely because it doesn’t exist 😅 It’s probably a mandela effect or something where this is something that I assumed while watching the show, and with time I confused it with something that was actually said. Honestly, you’re the expert so I believe you, and as I said, your explication is pretty good. Thanks for your confirmation 👍

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Oh my, I promise I'm no expert. Just trying to put all the pieces together. And I also thought the same as you did that for a long time. I assumed a timeline can graduate to a universe. But I just can't find that anywhere and instead I keep finding evidence to the opposite. So I agree...I think we both experienced Mandela effect!

[@mattyboyb523]

Wow!!! I’m gonna have to watch this video again

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, it was alot of fun to put together. And If you haven't seen this vid, you might also check it out: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eJC9mIx5isRpfsU. It goes over all the lies we were told about the TVA in the first season's premier episode and how we have to strip those lies away to be able to know what is really happening. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!

[@calvinfisher5886]

This really helps because i was wondering how there were 3 peter parkers in no way home when 2 should have been pruned

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Right...I think this model makes alot of sense. I'll keep expanding on it, or changing it, as we learn more. But it sure helps me to visualize it this way!

[@ShaKKDiseL]

The "Good Guy" will always never trade 1 person for the whole universe in the MCU, so someone has got to make that change, and i am almost certain it'll be Loki

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Well said! Yes I think Loki is indeed the one who will have to make that call!

[@phillynicko]

this new season of loki rocks!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I agree...such a great season so far. Can't wait for the next episode to drop!

[@mildlydazed9608]

My headcanon is that branches create more incursions and those incursions being what creates reality overlaps. By having Dox prune the redline branches in E2 it's preventing the incursions that would allow the alternate Kangs to come. I THINK.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

i agree...I think the branching is what ultimately causes universes to collide and have incursions. And while Dox killed trillions with her actions, it's the only thing that bought them some time to figure out how to fix the loom. As long as the loom is functioning, I think 616 is still isolated from the multiverse...but it's about to break down, which would definitely leave 616 exposed. Can't wait for the next episode to drop!

[@johnsantos507]

But did Reed Richards from Earth-838 say "When 2 universe erodes and they collide, destroying one or both entirely."

[@AbitofEverything4U]

​@@johnsantos507 Very close...what he said was: "An incursion occurs, when the boundary between two universes erodes, and they collide. Destroying one, or both, entirely." I think that boundary erodes as a result of the branching timelines intermingling.

[@johnsantos507]

@@AbitofEverything4U But I saw The Flash movie in my house. And I saw 2 universe erodes and it collided. That's the Incursion.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@johnsantos507Right, but keep in mind that's the DCEU, so their rules are different.

[@ShickSlit]

Simply Put: Alternate timelines are just any and/or every decision that we haven't made. The TVA intervenes when we make decisions that we are not supposed to make. This rule probably applies to every sentient being in the multiverse.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yes, I think you nailed it regarding what an alternate timeline is. Totally agree. I will say, however, that I think the TVA only controls the 616 sacred timeline and it's branches. It doesn't control the other universes. 616 has been isolated from the rest of the multiverse. I think the Kang Council decides to do with the branches in the multiverse, and probably wipes them out like we saw the exiled Kang had done before being sent to the Quantum Realm. Anyway, great feedback on the vid. Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts on it!

[@ShickSlit]

@@AbitofEverything4U Yes. Np!! The only way I believe to visit alternate universes would be dream walking or America Chavez!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Totally agree!

[@bizzybrown8372]

The journey to secret wars is going to be so cool starting this year. .

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yup...getting really excited for Secret Wars!

[@headband1]

everyone needs to see this im tired of people thinking timelines and universes are interchangeable.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, I admit I was guilty of that for awhile, but after Loki S2 E2, with the labeling of the branched timelines, combined with the quote from Waldron in the Assembled episode, I'm convinced timelines and universes are separate things. Well said!

[@anderother]

18:18 Loki season 2 wont be split from season 1’s place in the timeline order on disney+

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I agree...I think they will consider the two seasons to occurring back to back!

[@annebilous3550]

Not sure if you’re still checking and responding to comments on this video. Absolutely love the breakdown and truly hope this is an accurate depiction of the canon surrounding Multiverse vs Timeline debacle. That being said, I wanted to point out one small correction as it might help with how exactly incursions happen. You said you believe this is all happening before Phase 4. However, we at least know that Spider-Man HC and Doc Strange M.O.M. occurred after Season 1 of Loki. On the red carpet, Kevin Feige stated “without Sylvia stabbing He Who Remains, the spell in Homecoming cannot go wrong and other universe variants of Spider-Man (I.e. Garfield and Toby)could not appear”. Knowing this, alongside with your discovery here, I believe I more clearly understand how Multiversal travel becomes possible. Upon Sylvia stabbing HWR, the Sacred Timeline began wildly branching. My best guess, is if branched timeline grow far enough past a Nexus point, that they may then be able to cross the barrier between Unjverses with their own Nexus point branched timeline, opening Multiversal travel. Let me know what you think of it, if you get a chance. And again, beautiful work on this video. This has restored my interest in this Phase much more now that we can see some clear rules applied as to how all of this is happening. Thanks Edit: So I wanted to expand on this idea with an example. HWR makes the claims that the Multiverse is formed in a stacked order. In his visual example, they all looked like a ring, similar to the 616 Sacred Timeline. Now imagine branches reaching off not only the 616 timeline but also the universe stacked above and below it. They are isolated when someone who has control of a TVA like institute with technology like the Temporal Loom. If many of HWR or Kang the Conquerors variants have no desire to end the Multiversal war, they would probably leave their universe branching as far and wide as it could. In turn allowing at some point, longer branches from two neighboring universes to reach the threshold between them, allowing them to intertwine as they branch past one another’s barriers. Now, we have two branch timelines from two totally different universes crossing paths, opening the gateway between them. It would qualify what Kevin Feige said about HWR’s death allowing Multiversal travel to begin again. Or at least I hope that’s correct.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Well said! Yes, I think that's exactly what's happening with the branches between universes interweaving and connecting the neighboring universes and leading to incursions as well as the issues we saw in NWH. The only reason I think that Loki S1 and S2 must happen first is that it seemed they hinted at Loki S1 ending with the multiverse breaking open, such as we saw with Feige's comment. However, I think they slightly changed plans when they started S2 because we see that the loom is still working, which means the sacred timeline is still protected and isolated. I think S2 will end with the loom failing and that will be what leads to the rest of phase 4. In a way Feige was right...HWR's death ultimately led to the events in NWH and MoM, but his death won't result in that happening until the loom is shut off.

[@keithwish3984]

i was never confused that much just waiting until they told the story

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, I admit that I was confused until I laid it all out like this, but you are right, it's pretty clear now where things are going. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!

[@stfu1503]

Where to these timelines take place? Physically? In a Universe there is 1 earth. How timelines take place physically in a universe? I am so confused about this that I cant even question it correctly.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, that is kinda wild to consider. So here's how I look at it...when a nexus event occurs, it's basically like a cut and paste of the entire universe occurs, with the only difference being the nexus event itself. So you have now two timelines running parallel to each other that are both an entire universe, but are anchored to each other by the nexus event. It's why in Endgame they were able to go into the past, which created a branch (or nexus event) and then eventually they were able to return back to their original timeline once again. Hope that makes sense. It's just how I have come to think about it at least. I really appreciate you watching the vid and leaving your thoughts on it. Thx so much!

[@stfu1503]

SO when a nexus event occurs matter is created out of thin air but matter cant neither be created nor destroyed. Isn't that like new universe in which certain things happened upto a certain moment and then changed? @@AbitofEverything4U

[@AbitofEverything4U]

That's an interesting point...I have heard theories that all possible paths a timeline could take already exist out there (presumably created during the big bang) and that when a nexus event occurs, it forms a bridge between those already existing timelines. So in that case, the matter already exists. It's beyond my brain to comprehend, but some of this is actually based on theories about quantum physics.

[@eagc7]

I think another thing that could've contribute to the confusion with What If, is that when you look at some promos for What If prior to the release of that week episode on places like Twitter, they have a shot of the TVA screens as branches grow before we get clips of that week episode.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Good point! Yeah, I think there was some definite confusion around the terms to use in What If. I wonder if they will tidy that up at all when the new season arrives?

[@julianortiz5712]

Yeah, I feel like this is pretty consistant with what we've learned (primarily thanks to your great research). I find the idea of other universes existing before the MCU started to branch really satisfying, since it means the other universes like Tobey's, Andrew's, Fox X-Men, 838, etc. existed before Loki. I also think your assessment about universes just creating timelines instead of creating new universes is true, it simply makes sense; and I think you found a really good way to explain the Watcher's confusing wording from What If...? Also, here after watching episode 3 and I assume you'll cover it on your episode 3 breakdown, but for me it's pretty interesting that they actually showed us branches being created in real time (by Renslayer and Miss Minutes giving Timely the TVA book). Even the text, which previously showed "Sacred Timeline", now showed "Branched Timeline" when Loki and Mobius came to it, and it also means that the main MCU Kang (Even if it wasn't He Who Remains) isn't actually from the 30th century, but instead from the 19th. Finally, related to the subject, I was in deep thought about the whole multiverse concept and how that applies to Marvel, and an idea sprung up: Let's say Marvel has a bunch of universes, they make up the Marvel Multiverse. But by definition, a multiverse is an infinite number of universes. So... would that mean that inside the Marvel Multiverse there can exist, let's say... the Star Wars Canon universe? I mean, it's a universe, so shouldn't it? But now let's think, Star Wars ALSO has their own multiverse, where we can put the Canon universe, the Legends universe, etc. inside of. Now let's add DC into the mix: As proven by The Flash and Crisis on Infinite Earths, there is a DC Multiverse, where a bunch of universes are inside of (The DCEU, Christopher Reeve's Superman universe, the Adam West Batman universe, etc.). So each of these multiverses seems to be contained by the limits of their own franchise. We obviously know why these fictional worlds can't collide because of real-life stuff, but let's ignore outside universe stuff and just focus on in-universe stuff. Would this mean that there's something above a multiverse? Something that includes all multiverses? An... OMNIVERSE?, which would be for multiverses what a multiverse is for universes? Maybe it means that characters for which a multiverse is considered a real person (Luke Skywalker in the Star Wars multiverse), for another multiverse is considered a fictional character (Luke Skywalker in the Marvel multiverse), which could be bits of a multiverse spilling over to another one. It's an interesting thought, and if there ever was a hypothetical scenario where a bunch of these franchises crossed over (even if it's just fan-made), that would put into question if such a thing exists. Imagine an incursion (Doctor Strange 2) or Worlds Colliding (The Flash) where instead of universes, it happens with whole multiverses. And maybe, instead of destroying one or both (like in those examples), they could instead, merge. Just a little hypothetical to think about. Also, I need to see paint Kang

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Love your idea of an Omniverse. And I'll bet James Gunn and Feige are thinking the same thing, tbh. Queue up the Avengers / JLA crossover!

[@sidharthabhimanyu..]

What if the big bang created a multiverse can say it as base one and alternate universes created from it as a result of branching timeliness that's how we got parallel realities similar to one another and entirely different ones

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, that could indeed work. However, the idea that each universe has the potential for different physics seems to indicate each universe has its own big bang, even if several of the universes end up with similar laws of physics. I admit, I'm really torn on whether every universe has its own unique origin or whether at least some of the universes can spawn off each other. I hope they give us a really clear answer on that at some point!

[@sidharthabhimanyu..]

@@AbitofEverything4U yeah I'm also waiting for loki or he who remains or OB or Dr strange or wong or she hulk ... to explain how actually the multiverse work

[@AbitofEverything4U]

LOL...yes, please!

[@xAlbatr0ss]

This is the best Explanation i have found to date on this specific problem ive been wondering about LOL, now the only thing confusing me is "dimensions" in comparison to realities or universes (timelines)

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Ikr? I need to do a vid on dimensions. Marvel hasn't given us alot of info, however, so that one will be tough. But perhaps after Loki ends, I'll try to tackle that one!

[@TWD77710]

So dimensions are pocket realities that exist within universes and their timelines. Examples are dark dimension, Ta-Lo, and Asgard. There are many dimensions just like there are many planets in every universe, and well there are countless in the multverse too they are not unique. Realms are more difficult, they are systems that connect cosmic bodies, such as the nine Realms that connect planets (Jotunheim) to dimensions (Asgard). However Realms also exist at a larger scale as we see with the quantum realm which literally connects Entire universes, so they can vary. I hope this helps

[@AbitofEverything4U]

​@@TWD77710I like that explanation. I am starting to wonder, however, if there is one dark dimension for the entire multiverse. In Dr. Strange, Wong said: "A being of infinite power and endless hunger, on a quest to invade every universe and bring all worlds into his Dark Dimension." That implies that Dormammu has access to the multiverse. Thoughts on that? I'm still trying to wrap my head around it all, tbh.

[@TWD77710]

@AbitofEverything4U huh that's an interesting point also the fact that Clea was explaining strange the thing about incursions and she opened a portal to the dark dimension so either its a universe or dimensions are also affected by incursions which would make sense lol. Or I mean technically it's possible that dimensions are unique to a universe and they are all different from each other but idk it wouldn't make alot of sense from the information that we have rn

[@AbitofEverything4U]

​@@TWD77710Yeah, dimensions are very confusing to me, tbh. But I am beginning to think that at least in the case of the Dark Dimension, there is only one for the multiverse. Hope we get a firm answer soon!

[@rhodrage]

I have one question, regarding Variants. How can a variant look different and be completely different people if they're not from a wholly new universe? I.e, Sylvie.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

So that's a great question...and I'm going to do a short vid on it that I'll try to get out tomorrow, as you are far from the first to wonder about that. I'm got some good ideas for how it work...more to follow on that!

[@Hvterz]

If the variants timeline diverged from the sacred timeline before the events leading up to one’s birth, the domino affect comes into play and the chances of the exact genetic makeup for the same being is very unlikely since the events leading up their birth is no longer the same as in the sacred timeline. That’s my guess.

[@rhodrage]

@@Hvterz but then they wouldn't be the same person at all, and thus, not a variant.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

​@@Hvterz Yes, that was one of my theories in the recent vid I made. The other was that the universe created chaos with each new Loki variant and thus they came in so many shapes and sizes.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@rhodrageGood point!

[@jaxan0277]

How exactly does isolating a universe down to a single timeline(the sacred 616 timeline) keep it safe from all the Kangs, who can travel the multiverse?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I am assuming something about the loom itself is creating the protection for the sacred timeline. But that's just my understanding. Maybe we'll get more info in the finale to answer that question. Thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!

[@obarril]

14:55 I just got confused with one thing, how did the overload of the loom cause the universe 616 to be exposed to other universes? Wasn't the loom only supposed to protect the sacred timeline within the universe 616? What does it have to do with the multiverse? Because of this, I still kind of think that universes = timelines, because then the destruction of the loom causing the exposition would make more sense to me. Or at least they meant that some of the time(?), but I think they just didn't have a lot of consistency between the different shows/movies. EDIT: I'm sorry if what I wrote is confusing, I am still very confused by this.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Great feedback. Very sorry for things being confusing. It is a pretty difficult topic to cover as Marvel has used some of the terms to mean the same things. Let me first suggest my latest video on the subject, which I made right after the Loki finale: kzbin.info/www/bejne/m5LFh6SLZsalZtU. But I'll also try to answer your specific question: 1. We learn in Loki S2 E6 that the loom overloading actually didn't expose the sacred timeline to the rest of the multiverse. Instead, if it overloaded then a failsafe kicked in that reset the loom back to just being the sacred timeline and the TVA was then rebuilt by HWR. That was a wild twist in the story that I thought was really cool. So that means that at no point during Loki S1 or S2 was the sacred timeline ever exposed to the rest of the multiverse. That only happened when Loki decided to completely destroy the loom, which ofc he did in the finale. 2. You are 100% correct that the loom protected the Sacred Timeline and its branches. You are also correct that timeline and universe are really the same thing, since a timeline is truly a full fledged universe. In the video which I referenced above, I finally realized that the key was to focus on the concepts, rather than the specific wording being used. 3. Interestingly enough, the Sacred Timeline (i.e. the 616 universe) and its branched timelines (each of which are also a universe, since they are exact copies of the original 616 universe, other than the nexus event) together all form a "multiverse". So when Victor called it a multiverse in the finale, he wasn't referring to the full multiverse (i.e. 838, paint universe, cube universe, Tobey and Andrew's universes, X-men universe, etc), but was referring to the fact that each branch that was in the loom is a universe and together they form the 616 multiverse. 4. Thus, Loki's tree in the finale was indeed just the 616 timeline / universe and each of its branched timelines / universes. Hope that helps explain it better. If you do get a chance to watch the vid I tagged above, I think it will all make sense for sure. Thanks so much for all your great feedback. I truly appreciate it!

[@obarril]

@@AbitofEverything4U I just finished watching the video you mentioned. Thanks man, now everything makes so much more sense to me :) Keep up the good content :))

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Great to hear that. Yeah, Loki S2 E6 really answered so many questions and made it all so clear. Love that series!

[@Invalidcookie-bv4cx]

4:50, Kang says "Universes STACKED on top of eachother." I think the big bag just made it different Vibration and it exists in the same PLACE. But we can't interact with it. (or rather they can't) Same "place" on a different "level" lets call it. I always assumed thats what "Red line" meant, the red line in loki is a reference to another universe on top and below.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I like your idea about stacked universes existing in the same place. Interesting theory. I do think, though, that the TVA was only monitoring the 616 Sacred Timeline, so a red line isn't a new universe but is a new branched timeline off the existing 616 universe. But just my own theory on that. I do really love your theory on different vibrations for each universe in the multiverse!

[@Batrexman]

I gotta question for ya : If sacred timeline is just one universe with multiple timelines, why is it that the variants of Loki look different? Simply put, how are these multiple timelines created within this universe? If it's thruough time travel like endgame then all of the variants should look the same? But with Loki? Some inconsistency or maybe I am not understanding your point? Or is that the each universe operate as a smale scale multiverse? Except, it could be dubbed as multitimelines for simplicity sake. Just like the multiverse, these timelines are also completely different such that thier variants are also different.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Excellent questions. I did a short vid on my theories around the Loki variants being so different, in case you are interested: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJOcYqOClp6bf7s. I agree, it is a strange situation, but I do think it has a few possible answers.

[@laurenavaneale1364]

Great explanation!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Thanks so much...really appreciate it!

[@JohnYourube]

So what about tobey Spider-Man, Andrew Spider-Man, fox X-men, and all the other pre mcu marvel movies? Are those different universes or different timelines?

[@lucagz6481]

Other universes.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

I was torn on that for awhile, but the new timeline book confirms that they are separate universes.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@lucagz6481Well said!

[@JohnYourube]

If they are all different universes, that means they’re not part of the sacred timeline right? Wouldn’t that mean they haven’t been isolated from the multiverse war, and if so, how come they’re universes haven’t been destroyed or taken over by a kang already?

[@AbitofEverything4U]

​@@JohnYourubeYes, my understanding is they are separate universes and thus are outside of the loom. As for what they have been up to, that's what I'm interested to know. My guess is that the kang council is still causing issues, and if there is a threat of an incursion, they just wipe out the world that was starting to cross over with theirs. I suspect they are going to be ruthless!

[@theverywell-informedfanboy6068]

I've always lamented that "The Sacred Timeline" is just but one of many universes and that the multiverse still existed, just He Who Remains cut off access to them by pruning the branches, rather than the branches, themselves, being the only things making up the multiverse. Especially since the Raimiverse and Webbverse are definitely not branches of The Sacred Timeline. I also have a theory that Earth-838 is the product of a Earth-616 branch crossing a FoX-Men Universe branch.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Right...I think HWR isolated the sacred timeline from the rest of the multiverse, but that he didn't destroy the other universes in the process. So they were still out there, but the loom protected the 616 universe. And that's an interesting theory about 838 being a combo of 616 and Fox. I wonder if we'll learn more the next time we visit it? Thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!

[@DancingEagleWoman]

Thanks for breaking this down! It's definitely confusing stuff. 👍👍

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, it is indeed complex. So making the vids helps me process it alot better. Thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!

[@BlackHedgehog]

Keen to see what this distinction is. Okay so universes just manifest infinitely with their own big bang events and each of those universes has a "base timeline" with then have alternate branches? That makes a lot of sense because the sacred timeline then consists of the "main timeline" and a handful of branches of that same timeline. That means things like the Raimi trilogy and such are another UNIVERSE. This then means that AOS, the Netflix shows and such that share consistent events but also are a little different make up the sacred timeline. That's fascinating and makes so much sense. So the official timeline book covers the main 616 timeline but not alternate branches or universes. Meaning the "sacred timeline" is called that because it's isolated from the other universes and their branches. This means the universes and timelines statements here are the same just one is fact and one is propaganda. The only confusing part then comes to REALMS/DIMENSIONS. We know their are nine realms for example but are those realms to each universe or for all universes? Dark Dimension, Quantum Realm, etc. I'm still not sure about the What If aspect ... that is a bit confusing WHEN it takes place. Then again the Watcher might be able to observe all universes even an isolated one.

[@lucagz6481]

What If takes place AFTER He Who Remains death and the liberation of the Timeline.

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, I totally need to do a video on realms and dimensions. I agree, those are tricky. And @lucagz6481 is correct, What If takes place after Loki. Great comments as always!

[@AbitofEverything4U]

@@lucagz6481 Great answer!

[@arav13]

15:40 I really think the quantumania kang will become the he who remains. We saw him in loki s1 but it is at the end of time. This AatW kang gets exiled for his plans for making a sacred timeline. He is currently lost somewhere who know. Sooner or later, he will execute his plan and create what we say in s1 loki. We saw him speak with janet and on his palm, there was a ring of timeline just like the sacred timeline

[@AbitofEverything4U]

Yeah, I agree, there are some solid reasons that theory will come true. Nice call!