LokSound, Tsunami2, WOWSound Decoder Soundoff--Hear the difference (191)

Back in video number 184 I showed you how to install a Decoder Buddy Mini in a LifeLike E8a unit along with a LokSound decoder. In this video I'm going to show you how I did the same installation in LifeLike E6a and E7a locos but this time I'm installing similar SoundTraxx Tsunami2 and TCS WOWSound decoders each with similar dual 567 prime mover sound packages. We'll then listen to the 3 different sound packages to compare the bells, horns, and most importantly the dual 567 prime mover diesel sounds as I put them through their paces. So come on along and give a listen so you can pick the brand you want for your E-units.
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[@Riogrande6400]

The TCS WOW sound decoder knocked it out of the park. It sounds so much better. I wasn't expecting that at all.

[@brucehaigis3495]

Good evening, I have watched many of your videos . I have been in and out of the hobby for many years, I was brought into it by my father and grandfather sometime in the 60s, maybe even late 50s. You do a really good job with products, I commend you for that. I would love love to spend time with you as a intern, maybe picking your brain, or just sitting around and listen to you at home while you’re working on your railroad, it’s near and dear to my heart, because of what my grandfather taught me. God bless you and stay safe

[@TheDCCGuy]

You’d get ti hear a lot of mumbling and cussing!

[@georgewilkinson1068]

I was amazed how well the WOW decoder sounder sounded, particularly with the bell and the engine start sequence.

[@6cylender11]

Just wanted to say thanks for your patience and assistance with your help with my decoder. I’m taking it very easy and trying very hard to do it correctly. Thanks again. You were very helpful. 👍

[@robertbobrichard]

These 21 pin decoders are the way to go. Thanks for the videos, I've switched to decoder buddy for all my locos.

[@jamesbrown9761]

I don't think this is even a competition, Tsunami wins by a mile. I have been so happy with the Tsunamis I have put in my locos. They're easy to install, sound fantastic and don't take an advanced degree in rocket science to program like LokSounds do. The WowSound is really good too though.

[@nycart256]

Thanks for another great show. For sound decoders I have always preferred the Loksound decoders not only for their great sound but also the features that ESU offers such as the decoder can set the Back- EMF automatically and the ability to put any sound they offer on any decoder.

[@microrails]

Enjoying the difference between the power. Nice brake down of the units.

[@rayshowsay1749]

The WOW gets ny nod on balance. Bell has that sound of the fixed bell with no vibration, and this decoder seems to be the only one with a really distinguishable engine wind-up {'va - vaa- vaaa - vroooom') and level-off as it starts to move.

[@scotttucker8127]

Really impressed with the sound of the Tcs wow sound decoder followed by the Tsunami 2 and Loc sound last listened with my JBL Bluetooth headphones to really make my opinion about these

[@trapdriver7006]

Excellent informative video I enjoyed listening to the different decoders, for me soundtrax decoders are no 1

[@v4victory665]

Thanks for the testing. hard to say what I think sounds the best. they are all great. I don't think you can lose on either. I usually go with the Company that shows the most all around attention in their products and thier customers.

[@rogerhuber3133]

Super comparison, Larry. I vote for the TCS sounds. Not liking their Mars light as much as LokSound but it gets down to the sounds are what's most important.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Roger, I think there were 2 things going on with the headlights and Mars lights. (1) the original placement of these was designed for large bulbs and not tiny LEDs and I plan to go back and make some mods. (2) there was some flicker due likely to the power circuit frequency both SoundTraxx and TCS used compared to LokSound. This flicker was not visible to my eye only the camera picked it up.

[@dugenpippenger979]

TCS wow mars lights are programmable to your liking btw

[@joevalentine2048]

Nicely done Larry. I would have liked you to do a side by side sequential comparison...3 locos side by side doing their bells each in turn...then the same with the horns etc. that would have made it easier to compare. Perhaps a quick addendum? Thank you you for all you do to help us to achieve better railroads.

[@douglasallen511]

I agree with your idea of the 3 locos side by side. Would it require 3 controllers to do quick comparisons of the locos?

[@joevalentine2048]

@@douglasallen511 No the Nce controllers can do a quick recall of up to 6 locos and while I don’t know digitrax I believe they can do that too.

[@donsgotmoney]

@@douglasallen511 If you ran it through JMRI, you would not need 3 different controllers. JMRI gives the option of opening 3 separate throttles with all the functions of your single controller.

[@additudeobx]

In my opinion, the LOK was the overall best package. It had lighting that was stabilized and the Mars light looked very realistic. The Mars wasn't just a blinking led light. It had depth. The Tsunami II was second, it had good sound but lighting was a little weak. Then the WOW sound. I felt that the sound needed a little more refinement, some more depth and the lighting was also a little weak. When it comes to realistic matched sounds, I think the prime mover startup sounds as long as they sound typical are just fine. Maybe 1% of railfans can actually tell what a particular loco sounds like starting up. The other 99% of us just think that if it sounds decent, then it sounds OK apart from Steam or Turbines, it's all good. The bell and the horn are the true test. The bell has to sound like that bell, and the horn, like that horn. That's where the moneys at.

[@pieroluciano3272]

Awesome Video! All that work sure paid off! Those E units sound and move so real! Cheers! 🍺🍺

[@omtech]

I assume you had to replace split gears on all of these? Very good video. Makes decoder choosing much easier! I'll probably be going with the TCS.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Yes, and there is a video on how to do that on the channel.

[@omtech]

@@TheDCCGuy Believe me, I've got lots of experience with that. Even my NIB locos were cracked.

[@BossSpringsteen69]

The WOW has the reverb in the horn and really sounds like a 567 should sound full throttle.

[@nicksanto882]

Very interesting indeed! Thanks for sharing!

[@MBrailfan]

Out of the three of them, I think the ESU had the best sounding prime mover which actually surprised me as I am not generally a fan of how ESU decorders sound. The horn and bell on the Tsunami2 was better by far than the other two, that came as no surprise as in my opinion that has been their strongest point since they introduced the new decoders. To me the horn and bell are the most important, they are what catch your attention the most, both in real life and with our models.

[@CentralJerseyRailfan]

Huge ESU fan here. The Soundtraxx ain’t bad but I can’t see myself doing personal installs with that or TCS mainly because of the ESU features and audio quality. I would buy Athearn engines with Soundtraxx decoders though and that’s about it; any factory ESU installation is a win for me

[@SirLANsalot]

ya ESU sound is just amazing, HOWEVER they are very finicky to re-program the sound, basically requiring their programmer to do it. It can be done without the ESU programmer, but, it can mess up the decoder pretty bad if it doesn't get the voltage it wants. Where as with Soundtraxx or anyone else you can use Decoder Pro/Sound Pro to re-program and your programming track off of your command station.

[@CentralJerseyRailfan]

@@SirLANsalot yeah CV only programming is also a thing. Thank god my club has an ESU programmer.

[@markwakeley3835]

A very interesting test considering none of the decoders were "fine tuned". Out if the box I liked the Tsunami overall but I really like the hint of reverb on the WOW's horn to give it a slight echo effect.

[@johnfm2731]

I know this is a older video. I have a question about the Prime Mover startup sounds. Is Tsunami proto typical with the warning sound prior to engine startup?

[@TheDCCGuy]

I’d have to ask one of my engineer friends about that. I assume it is since most of this stuff is recorded off actual prototype locos although a lot,of these companies do use a generic recording when a component was used in the same locos.

[@h2osmokey]

Excellent presentation. The Tsunami sounded best to me surprised thinking the WoW would be better. BTW, did you compare the BEMF function among the 3? I really enjoy that with the WoW but don't have a TSU with it . . yet.

[@jasonlinhardt7811]

Both ESU and WOW horns did the unnatural thing where a second short horn interrupts the first to sound off, that’s a mood killer for me. I liked ESU’s 567 sound better though, but this is straight out of the box. TSU’s eq can shape that sound back up. And what was that erratic sound syncing with the ESU? I shouldn’t have to remember to let the rpms ramp down. No good. Overall in-wowed with WOW. But for true comparison, we really needed to as you suggested and switch decoders out on the buddy so the speakers/ enclosures are exactly the same.

[@ricter591]

Thanks Larry, I'm leaning with the Loksound I know you need a loksound programmer I believe. 🐾🚂 BearCreek Cov. KY.

[@TheDCCGuy]

As long as you get the dealer to load the sound file when you buy the decoder you can program it using DecoderPro.

[@steamfan007]

How about a similar sound-off for steam locomotives?

[@kleetus92]

16:02 For those of you who don't want to burn 16 minutes getting to the actual point of the SOUND video...

[@NYSWWC6633]

Nice video! I didn't see anything on TCS about the dual 567 sound file availability?

[@TheDCCGuy]

It is a built in feature on their decoders. Click a selection in the Sound pane in DecoderPro and you get dual prime movers.

[@jameseddleman3635]

Noticed a pair of SW1's background, are they equipped with sound, which decoder did you install?

[@TheDCCGuy]

See the August 2016 Model Railroader. I used a Soundtraxx ECO-100 which is no longer available. You could use either a LokSound or Tsunami2 N-scale size decoder.

[@markl3603]

Larry, What type of horns did the Southern have on the E6 and the E7? The models don't have Nathan M5s. I would say all the decoders are similar enough that it is a matter of personal preference, unless you can get one type much cheaper than the other two.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Southern E units had Nathan M5s most of their service life however the E6 and E7 units came with the dual single chime horns. I just haven’t had time to convert them yet.

[@stewarttrains98]

Seemed the sound on the TCS lagged. Understand that horn for the testing was all same across the board. However the m5 is definitely wrong for the two single chime on the E6. for operation purposes the sounds need to be drastically cut down. Sticking with ESU for the win.

[@TheDCCGuy]

That is because TCS decoders have two throttle modes; traditional and prototype, and they come set for the prototype throttle. The traditional throttle is derisively called slot car mode since it makes the loco speed and sound respond immediately to the throttle just like running a slot car. Prototype mode functions like a real locomotive and uses BEMF to determine loco response so you get a lag as the loco prime mover loads up. I have a bunch of M5 horns in the paint booth right now so all my locos will get upgraded soon. And you’re correct about the volume, I do notch it down a bit for everyday use.

[@gsigs]

While all 3 are fine, I think the Loksound 5 edges out the other two on sound quality. However, overall I prefer the Tsunami 2 for its other features. I find it to be much more user friendly and have a more useful range of functions and utilities. I have not used a Wowsound decoder; it could be even better for all I know.

[@fredashay]

I think they all sound good, even if a little different than each other. I think what you should do is compare each of them to a real locomotive to know which one is most authentic.

[@TheDCCGuy]

I think you’d find that it depends on the locomotive you choose and its history. Prime movers got rebuilt and even sounded a bit different depending on how log since their last maintenance. Same hoes for horns which needed regular retuning to sound the same. LokSound USA has made a practice of offering multiple sound packages option for some popular diesels so you can make your roster sound different and there are options that allow you to change playback speed to create differences. Plus sound is one of those things that literally sound different to different people.

[@geraldjones2278]

Can you tell me exactly which SoundTraxx decoder you used here? (model #)

[@TheDCCGuy]

TSU-PNEM8 EMD Diesel

[@Conn653]

How about a video, or two, on installing decoders in steam engines? Thanks! :-)

[@TheDCCGuy]

Monday

[@wasatchrangerailway6921]

To the trained ear of a retired engineer, I can safely say that all of those were done with prime movers that were not loading!!!! The prime movers were in neutral, and it ruins it all for me!!!!!! If these mumbskulls would call up the Railroad and tell them that they need to record a load test on a given prime mover it would suddenly become a GO for me. Until then forget it!!!!!! A loaded 645E3 sounds radically different vs one that is just revving up in neutral!!!! I talked with TCS about this, and they said that version 5 would remedy this, I haven't heard V5 yet, so I don't know if they fixed it or not???? All of my decoders will be stationary, and the sound will follow the train around (if somebody comes up with a prime mover that sounds like it is loading) I will use polarity controlled SCRs with magnet switches that open and close when when the lead locomotive passes over the switches.

[@TheDCCGuy]

I would bet you are correct that they don’t normally do anything more than record them standing still or on a closed loop at a limited speed. I saw a video recently though where the Accurascale folks in the UK actually did some recordings of a steam loco with a full load of cars and did some heavy accelerations as part of that. Should be interesting to hear when the come out this fall!

[@kleetus92]

Couple of things to note. ESU put enough forethought into the decoder to use a higher frequency PWM signal to drive the lights.. why would you care? For the same reason he had to put the disclaimer that the flicker wasn't visible to the human eye, only on camera. If you're in a club or will be having your equipment show up in video or pictures or just for your own messing around, you want it to look right on video as well as in person. From an engineering perspective that is extremely easy to fix there is nothing preventing the other manufacturers from changing that, other than not having even thought about it. Gotta give it to the Germans, sometimes overengineered has its advantages. The wow sound decoder really had an egregious error on the air compressor.. what E unit ever used a GE AC compressor (the whoop sound)? Maybe that's what compressor was selected incorrectly in the sound setup, I don't know, but, it isn't correct. The ESU actually does another nifty subtle feature with their compressors as well in that the compressor tap tap tap sound varies with the speed of the prime mover, even through RPM changes, that's some serious attention to detail that none of the others do. The Wow sound horn was an interesting mix... sounded powerful but somehow flat... but... the very slight echo at the end was really nice.. neither of the other have that, now would you be able to hear that with track noise as it's moving, I really don't know. The Tsunami on startup has an annoying obvious loop for the warning bell... you can hear it wasn't looped correctly because you hear it come back around like 5 times before it fires the motor off. Subtle, but once you hear it, you can't not hear it after that. Of the three I think the ESU did the best job of matching notching to motion... and that's a real stickler for me. I do recognize and understand it's virtually impossible to get the models to act like the real thing even with back emf or looking at motor current to get that right.

[@Palanthon]

As long as SoundTraxx decoders continue to be "problematic" when trying to interface them with Decoder Pro/JMRI they are a "no-go" for me.

[@TheDCCGuy]

I have never had any problems with that.

[@klrwhizkid]

You really mean ESU vs Decoder Pro. SoundTraxx decoders work fine.

[@Palanthon]

@@klrwhizkid false, esu works fine, but better with esu's programmer. Soundtrack decoders don't read well on decoder pro. You can write to them but not read.

[@Form44208]

Great video and test! I liked the LokSound easily the best, followed by the TCS WOW, then Tsunami2. The TCS and Tsunami have more of a hollow sound to them, where as the LokSound is very clear. The TCS sound seemed to match the speed of the locomotive better than the Tsunami2 also. I wonder how much all of this is the sound file itself vs. the decoder. I think if you did another test of a different sound file on these locomotives (upload a different one temporarily), it would give you the answer. I use all LokSound in my locos. regards, NS.

[@crashj]

I prefer Tsunami slightly.

[@crashj]

Great presentation, BTW.

[@Josh-xn2uv]

I like the tcs wow a lot better

[@Blue68Camaro]

Thanks for the video. Tsunami2 by far is the best sounding followed by WOW. I am not a fan of LokSound and have nothing but trouble with their decoders. Problems such as causing other locomotives to intermittently stop, start, lurch forward or reverse and even do nothing. If I buy a new Loco with LokSound out it goes and I replaced with Tsunami's. I donate the old LokSound to a randomly selected model railroad club anonymously.

[@JF-lt5zc]

Loco address conflict perhaps?

[@Blue68Camaro]

@@JF-lt5zc No, numbers entirely different. It was like the decoder was throwing garbage on the LocoNet. Swapped it out, changed address and worked without causing issues. I also am not a fan having to purchase additional equipment to "properly" program them.

[@basilschwegmann7395]

Agree the Tsunami sounds better.

[@gunsaway1]

Southern didn’t use Mars lights. Wow sound is great. I like LOK system better

[@TheDCCGuy]

According to the actual Southern E6&E7 builder diagrams they were delivered with Pyle National headlights and Mars signal lights.

[@TheKenWiley]

In a 27.40 minute video its 16.0 before the introduction is over and something happens. I have trouble staying interested in all your videos because of the excess dialog, which is a shame because the information shared is quality and valuable. I believe most model railroaders are well above primary education level and don't need the depth of introduction.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Thanks for your feedback. May I suggest you use that little scroll button at the bottom of the screen and zip on forward to the point you see as interesting. I do it all the time with KZbin videos. I have a lot of viewers who have told me they appreciate the in depth information up front but only 3 who have ever echoed your sentiment. Right now my channel is averaging a 98.4% positive rating so I think I’m going to stick with my current format and approach.

[@johnrauner2515]

Annoys me how the movement and sound aren't realistic. Real locos don't start to move exactly at the same time the engine starts to increase revs. There is such a thing as inertia. Sadly none of the decoder manufacturers seem to have heard of this.

[@TheDCCGuy]

Oddly some viewers commented that they found it strange that the models began to move before the prime mover revved up. TCS decoders in particular do this and you can do thongs like adjust the various CV settings to advance or delay the startup. Real locos often do begin to move as soon as the brakes are let off and power is switched to the motors but before the throttle is advanced.

[@johnrauner2515]

@@TheDCCGuy Yes, many locos do indeed happily move (some even with several cars attached) while in run 1 with no appreciable increase in revs. But that is not what I was referring to. In each case these models began moving before engine revs BUT that movement didn't increase in proportion to the increased revs. It was one linear speed increase that overlapped the increase in revs. There was a total mismatch between what the prime movers were doing and the speed increase of the locos. It just seems very odd to me that so much effort has been put into realistic sound and yet this aspect of DCC realism has been totally ignored by all the manufacturers. Yes there are CV's you can change to kind of address this but surely it would have made sense for the manufacturers to have addressed it years ago.