Lombardi Live! Tony Williams Stories (Episode 27)

[@LithiumSurfboard]

I was Tony Williams drum tech once. It was the early 1980's, I was a teenager (too young to drive), and I got dropped off about two hours early for a Tony Williams drum clinic. I was there when he arrived and helped to set up his drums (the classic yellow Gretsch set), and had a front row seat for the clinic. Good memories of one of my favorite drummers, and perhaps one of the greatest drummers of all time. Just love those signature single stroke rolls.

[@sirhc3842]

Thanks for the video/interview. I was one of Scott Garrison's customers at Drum World in San Francisco. It's great to see Scott here, still working for DW Drums. I traveled to Drum World from out of town. My first trip there, I called the store about something small, a stand. Scott answered the phone and gave me directions (pre-navigation days). That day's positive experience led to many other trips for equipment and drum clinics (Bozzio, Purdie, Steve Smith, Will Kennedy). After his time at Drum World, I saw Scott teching for Tony at a clinic. He remembered me from the store, as well as at another meeting at NAAM a few years after Tony died. Scott is a good dude.

[@chriswaldron8588]

I was there in the final assembly, working hand in hand with John Good building Tony Williams drums. start to finish.

[@malcolmlarri9073]

I wish there were more photos of it !

[@LNZROCKS]

I was lucky enough to see Tony Williams with VSOP! What a legendary drummer! Get a insight into his excellence by watching this great show!

[@sembawangbolo2722]

Same here. I was fortunate to see him with that group, too. Also several times at the Jazz Showcase in Chicago at the Blackstone Hotel.

[@jimandjulia8261]

Really appreciate Scott’s comments. Like many talented people, Tony’s ego was huge and mercurial. They often don’t realize how challenging working for them can be because they become so used to being catered to in every aspect of their life. Love the art but recognize the human fallibility…

[@stuartcarswell2815]

I agree. Regardless if you are paying people to work for you , good manners cost nothing...I met David Bowie once at a show in Denmark, one of the nicest guys you could meet...also worked at peter Gabriel's studio..he knew everyones 1st names within a day... lovely guy

[@edwardevans652]

@Jim and Julia Yep, we have to separate the art from the artist. I’ve heard stories that Tony was very prickly and irascible. I’ve always wondered if he picked that up from Miles. We all have our something, Jazz fans know that Williams was a brilliant drummer. God rest his soul.

[@percussionboy4357]

Just to add one more piece to this puzzle: I was a student in Tony’s Saturday group classes at the San Francisco Drum World store in the period the video interview talks about, in the ‘90s. *There were about 5 people in the class when I was there, and afaik anyone could be in the class-there were no auditions to get in, and the skill level varied a lot among the students. The kit in the room was indeed a big yellow DW kit with red hardware. *Tony’s fame and ability was a little intimidating to us students, but he was actually the best teacher I ever had; he straightened out my hand technique, and also got across the “why” of jazz left hand playing on the snare-he taught us a bunch of short snare phrases to use, things he’d heard from people like Art Blakey, and then he had us improvise, playing time on the cymbal and using these snare phrases as we liked. It was like teaching a vocabulary to a small child, and it totally worked for me. *He had obviously thought a lot about how to teach the material, and he taught both techniques (like his grind-out-the-cigarette left foot technique on the hi-hat) and musical concepts (for example, how to construct a solo). *He videorecorded the classes, with the intention of creating educational videos out of them; he said he planned to re-shoot them with professional actors, some kind of re-enactment. I wonder what happened to those videos… *He tried very consciously to be tactful with the students and to create an air of camraderie in the class. He had no interest in embarrassing anybody about their playing, although none of us were virtuoso players. The only edgy experience I ever had with him was provoked, accidentally, by me (joking in class about sticking my gum on the bass drum)-he joked back about the orifice where I might put my gum…. *Hope this is useful in some way. I bet there is something in the class videos he shot which would be of great value to the drumming world if those videos still exist somewhere…

[@AlvesterGarnett]

Wow. Thank you for sharing this. Absolutely beautiful.

[@percussionboy4357]

@@AlvesterGarnett You’re welcome! *And just to be clear: the Tony Williams described in the KZbin here rings true to me, including the angrier side … different aspects of the same man. Maybe he felt a little more at ease when he was teaching, because I never saw him blow up at a student. But the intensity was always there; in the one weird exchange I had with him (mentioned above) he was intense-in my mind I was like, “he’s joking, but he’s not joking.” *He was a human and generous teacher, and very very smart. He really wanted us to learn how to play. *At the risk of outstaying my welcome here, one more thing comes to mind: His relationship with his wife mattered to him, and that came out a couple of times in passing remarks during class. Once he mentioned a show they both liked; another time he said briefly that they had attended some kind of social event, and been the first couple to take the dance floor. That was a special moment for him somehow. * Life sure flies by.

[@drumroll420]

I might have been one of those students in the same class, but I don't remember the DW kit. But everything else you mentioned I can corroborate. I liked it when he'd hang out in front of the shop to smoke his cigar before the lessons, and he'd talk with us about everything from music to NFL football. He was super funny too, he had a great sense of humor.

[@percussionboy4357]

@@drumroll420 It’s possible I’m remembering the kit wrong after so much time. What always stuck in my mind about the kit we used, as it is in my memory at least, was that I didn’t like the look of the red hardware … whereas the yellow shells looked great, and of course were already his color, from back in the Gretsch days. … I didn’t realize he smoked the cigars out front, but it totally rings true. And yeah, the humor. I remember one time he said to us something like, “All right men. Today we will hunt the lion, and kill the bear.” LIke drum-class-as-male-bonding-ritual, in an ironic way …

[@drumroll420]

@@percussionboy4357 I found his ad for lessons in the SF Weekly, I think the class I was in was the first class of students that signed up. Scott Garrison was working there before that, along with some other guy who I forget his name worked for Drum World back in the old small shop on Geneva (he always wore a a cap like the ones cyclists wear). The guy with the cap was student of Chuck Brown, the famous Bay Area drum teacher who taught Terry Bozzio and Dave Garibaldi. I also took lessons with Brown for about a year, and about a year later then took the class and a few individual lessons with Tony. I told Tony I had studied with Brown, and he asked me "Have you ever seen Brown play anywhere?". I said no I haven't, because all Brown did was teach. Tony asked me why I wanted to study with Brown. I said "Well.." and before I could finish he said "Because he taught Terry, and Dave, and this guy and that guy". I sheepishly nodded yes lol, and he was like "Look, if you're going to study with a guy, at least check him out and see how he plays with a band. I bet he told you it would take five years with him to get all his stuff down". I nodded yes again. Tony then said "Guys like that will string you along for years because that's how they make their bread. That's why you find cats that play, to see what they teach works". Tony and Brown had a history between each other that went back all the way to when both were in Boston. Tony told me that Brown back then was telling everyone in Boston that he taught Tony heard about it, and found Brown over at Berklee in a practice room. Tony said "I saw him hunched over a practice pad, practicing single stokes as fast as he could, drool coming out of his mouth I called him out about he telling everyone I was a student of his, and denied it. I told everyone that Brown was full of shit, and told Brown to stop saying that bullshit because it wasn't true". The way Tony told me that story was hilarious, I am not doing that story any justice, and of the many wonderful moments I had over at Drum World with Tony and everyone in the classroom - especially when he taught me how to play the ride cymbal that everyone on KZbin who has "How to play the ride like Tony" all wrong - what I remember was how down to earth he was, how he took interest in everyone individually, and how it didn't matter what level you were at playing, it was all about the drums, their history and meaning. He was a joy to be around, fun to have a laugh with, and was a great genuine person who just as a person you wanted to aspire to be. Let alone one of the greatest musicians who ever lived. Good to see a fellow alumni. Too bad Drum World doesn't exist anymore. But at least we have those memories.

[@ralphhumphrey445]

Thanks for the interview. I have my own stories about Tony, including taking a lesson from him in NY when I was touring with Don Ellis.

[@fviannaval]

My absolute favorite jazz drummer, what a treat. Thank you!

[@drummerboy6358]

This video is pure gold. Thank you for making this 🙏🏽

[@giulianotizza1550]

The Johann Sebastian Bach of drumming , the Paganini of drum solos, the Beethoven of the snare drum - and the Michelangelo of the ride cymbal. Sadly missed and , IMHO, still a bit underrated . Thanks for keeping his memory alive with these initiatives

[@robmiller817]

He inspired my heroes. Good enough for me.

[@marcgregoryneville]

My favorite work of Tony’s remains his earliest - the Blue Note years as both leader and side man. Thanks for the video.

[@musamusashi]

Alongside the work with Miles in those same years.

[@TomMendoladrums]

Great stories Scott! Thanks Don.

[@jonsilence]

Thank you for this highly insightful exchange which gives us a glimpse of Tony the man.

[@stuartcarswell2815]

I played the same Paiste Colorsound hihats Tony used on Rise by Public Image Limited when I did a session with Bill Laswell in 1999

[@stuartcarswell2815]

@Zaraduba great hats for recording

[@AlexLeys]

So cool see Garrison talk and moving!! ha!! Love him, best Artist Relation in the WORLD!!

[@DonaldSturgeAnthonyMcKenzieII]

Agreed!!!!

[@billdubilier]

His last recordings with Laswell are amazing. Acana with Pharoah Sanders and Buckethead rules!

[@musiqsoundsproductions]

And the snare was not only a 12 lugger, it was DW/Craviotto too. Killer sound.

[@hefewiseman]

great love the color and/of the gear stories,and Tony W, had that kind of 'vision' he was getting into all kinds of things at the time of his death, I met him , you hear all the stories.but he was totally cool...

[@Simonewhitesim-1music]

Hey, Scott Garrison a Wonderful Guy. So cool to see you on here. Hello From Simone White. Cheers.

[@neebinmakwah349]

Ahh, Tony Williams... The Michael Jordan of jazz drummers, with similar attitudes and being a perfectionist.

[@ciadella1971]

Tony Williams and Dean Anderson (Berklee) interrupted my lesson at Berklee. I just sat there and stared at him. After they left, my teacher Rick Considine looked at me and said "what a fuckin trip huh?"

[@meekoloco]

In addition to the suggested listening here, listen to all of Four and More by Miles Davis. A teenaged Tony Williams played all of that. Especially Seven Steps To Heaven.

[@AlvaroCordova-c7r]

I will always remember Tony with his GRETSCH 24" bass 3 floor toms

[@stevelaporta5791]

Thanks for sharing your stories about Tony. i was the manager of the Drum World store on Mission for most of it's history. Prior to that, I worked with Gene Okamoto in the original Geneva Drum World. Scott and I worked together on Mission street during the period in which he worked with Tony. Anyway, one day, Tony came into the store to pick up something and check out the store. While Tony was there, I had the idea to ask Don Sfarzo, the owner, if he would give his blessing to me asking Tony if he would be interested in teaching in the store. He immediately gave the idea the thumbs up. A DW kit was sent to the store for Tony to use for his lessons. I would always close up on Saturday. Tony would finish teaching at the same time the store would close. After we were both finished, Tony and I would hang out in front of the store and talk about everything but music while waitiing for his wife Colleen to pick him up. He had a great sense of humor. One Saturday was the weekend prior to him going into the hospital. Little did I know that it was time I would ever see or talk to Tony again. One regret is that even though he was/is my favorite drummer of all time, I never had the opportunity to study with him because I was working in the store while he was teaching his class. During our conversations, I never told him how I wished that could study with him.

[@roadrocket7]

Great story/stories on a great legendary drum shop. I used to be Gene Okamoto's barber after his regular barber succumbed to cancer. Had no idea all that time Gene loved drums and was from the Bay area. He never talked about drums until I became his barber. Retired from Pearl Drums and enjoying life. Gene had some great stories.

[@edpias7881]

This was so great! Will there be a second part to this?

[@bobblues1158]

110 % is what makes the difference between good and great.

[@drumroll420]

I used to shop at Drum World from when it was a small shop on Geneva Ave in SF to when it opened up the big store on Mission not far away from the old one. I took lessons with Tony there, met Garrison and talked with him about gear and the local music scene every time I saw him at the shop. Don Sfarzo used to own that shop, great man, held drum linics at the Italian American Social Club near the shops. Garrison is a great guy too, always helpful and very knowledgeable. Glad to see him doing well, thanks Scott! You're the best!

[@drumtimejoel]

Great video !

[@ACLOCKWORKDRUMMER]

Facinating !

[@JerryJacquesMusicDrummer]

Love the back stories Don!

[@ronnieciago]

Classic ! 🥁👏🎶

[@infinitygasmask]

Would love to hear more Tony stories

[@petercarey77]

My only memory of Tony Williams was at a Modern Drummer Festival at Montclair State University back in the days when the weekend festival was the highlight of the year. I really miss those festivals. One time Tony Williams appeared and did a solo followed by an audience Q&A. When a young drummer in the audience asked a question about a particular technique or fill, Tony’s response was that he does not share his secrets with other drummers. I don’t remember what else he said to justify this response, but it left me feeling sad and bitter about his attitude. It certainly violated the great spirit and camaraderie of this wonderful gathering of drummers of all ages. Too bad.

[@edwardevans652]

@Peter Carey Montclair State U. Good memories about that place in the early 80’s as a kid. JERSEY!

[@JRM---516]

Tony was a weird genius!

[@drummaman1]

It's possible he didn't share his secrets with other drummers, because they're HIS secrets, and was implying that you have to find your secrets...pretty much what Scott was saying in the "tune your kit" section of the interview. I wonder, if Tony was still with us right now, he would not like social media and the "instant gratification" crowd too much.

[@smilingdrum]

Hi Don! I love your Lombardi Live shows they are the best. Q: Is there a picture anywhere of the complete yellow with red Hardware DW kit that we could see?. Maybe Scott has something. please let us know. Thanks!

[@DAGDRUM53]

Just combed the internet looking for a picture and only found two, neither showed the complete set.

[@smilingdrum]

@@DAGDRUM53 Thanks

[@mwdrum]

Would have been so great for him to return to the 4 piece kit, Tony is a mystery to me, pertaining to his post miles solo leader journey. I understand commercialism, how the business works, those projects were all unique, but outside the norm. His approach to rock was really interesting. I think he got tired of the struggle and started his straight ahead post miles style, with bigger kit......BaDaBoom

[@robmiller817]

Why limit his voices? It how he spoke. Get over that 4pc nonsense.

[@thenel2162]

he started with the bigger kit because he couldnt hear himself!

[@musamusashi]

Like Miles, Tony moved ahead and pushed the envelope all his life.

[@JoelStevenett]

Beautiful!!!

[@frankievalentin533]

Great story about Tony Williams but I always wonder about that conga sitting in the corner. Looks Cuban by the hardware. Any history about it Don ?

[@DrummerDanVa]

There are always stories of Buddy Rich being an a-hole at times but apparently Tony Williams was no saint either.

[@sticktrik]

Read my comment to back up your “Saint” mention!!!

[@vincentrizzi4929]

Are there any photos of Tony's Double Bass DW Drum Kit.

[@JRM---516]

Yes!!!

[@OFFICIALBLINK182DRUMCOVERS]

UNIQUE!

[@Oneness100]

Does anyone know when Tony took possession of his first YELLOW Gretsch kit? I know he wasn't first to use 3 floor toms...

[@Oneness100]

@Kapālin Got any photos of that? Just curious.

[@garyconner6151]

Tony added a second bass drum towards the end of his short life.he added more drums drums.

[@genebrohan2401]

Playing the same cymbals for 30 yrs it would be pretty hard to change those k cymbals were part of his security blanket

[@coolhatadventures8111]

I did not realize that Tony Williams was so narcissistic. Both of you seem to be excusing his unprofessional and self centered behavior strictly based on who he was as an artist.

[@BamBam_PDX]

Yeah, who’s ever heard of a great artist being a huge narcissist?!

[@bigbaby9189]

You must be fun at parties.It’s just eccentricity of a great artist. Relax

[@jonsilence]

Tony was a complex and sometimes difficult personality; he knew he had issues of various kinds and at one point received therapy/counseling to deal with it. I talked with Tony on the phone once briefly, in 1976 on the Million Dollar legs tour just after Holdsworth had left & been replaced by Marlon Graves, and Tony was not very friendly to say the least. I have heard some cassette recordings of interviews he did with a music magazine journalist a couple of years later circa 1978, and likewise he wasn't warm & fuzzy; he sounded like he wasn't enjoying the interview process and made no attempt to hide this. By stark contrast, I met Buddy Rich a number of times and he was always friendly and gracious; likewise for Elvin Jones. Still, to this day, Tony Williams remains in a class all his own and along with Buddy and Elvin is one of the all-time greats of the drums with a singular talent that was all his own.

[@TheeRobertPhoenix]

Sounds like a guy you can best appreciate from a reasonable distance. Great talents are often difficult to handle, but there are exceptions, see Nile Rodgers.

[@edwardevans652]

@Robert Phoenix - The 11th House Brilliant artist and yes, a guy you can best appreciate from a distance. God rest his soul.

[@roybeckerman7843]

When are the new DW SLINGERLANDS coming out ..?

[@barrydlive4602]

Too bad they didn't have a visual of that yellow/red kit >:(

[@macadoo2530]

Ads are obnoxiously loud.

[@arame29]

Tony Williams was a major league a hole

[@TJB-zt9tx]

Thanks for feeding hungry Tony fans who were left with empty plates when, one of the worlds greatest drummers died and amazingly, there was no bio or documentary, even to date, nothing. 😞

[@richh9904]

The pro drummers do tune to their style. That;s why I don't waste time learning their licks, Use their ideas to expand my creativity instead.

[@libre-tad6283]

Just buy, set up your own stuff..

[@dynasticlight1073]

This is more about DEE dubble U . than enything else . C= mon...Jo.

[@genebrohan2401]

Ronald McDonalds dw drum set dam ugliest choice of colors heard it sounded like crap

[@dynasticlight1073]

Agree , these drum ? are so lousy sounding .Over hyped . Brainwashing ..

[@macadoo2530]

McDrums...comes w fries

[@trafalgerdavis7839]

Why do we excuse impoliteness with 'intensity' or artistic license? great drummer, a legend, and i know he got sick and died too early, but really, why do we allow such nonsense? Meh. Kind of turned off of him now, as if it matters.... All well.

[@thenel2162]

human beings are complex!

[@donlakakwaaijazz5220]

most of these guys are on drugs..there's no excuse acting that crazy