I kinda thought you were going to shoot 20-50 patterns at 40 yards verified with range finder. Then count all the pellets in a 10 inch circle and a 20 inch circle. Have it back bored and forcing cone lengthened and repeat the process.
@RandyWakeman3 жыл бұрын
It has been done: www.randywakeman.com/The_Mysterious_Lengthened_and_Elongated_Forcing%20Cone.htm .
@lukedog70283 жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing the evidence.
@nospam34093 жыл бұрын
Back boring I would totally agree, waste or money. Forcing cone, disagree somewhat. If you have a short forcing cone, and you're getting inconsistent patterns, cutting a longer forcing cone can help. I've had this issue on a mossberg 500, 835, an old Marlin pump, and two 870 express shotguns. One of the 870s had such a bad donut that it couldn't break a stationary clay pigeon at 20 yds. After cutting a new forcing cone, every one of them had nice, consistent patterns. I wouldn't do this if there wasn't a problem to begin with, but if the gun just won't produce an even pattern, cutting a longer forcing cone has fixed the issue every time for me.
@RandyWakeman3 жыл бұрын
There is zero evidence why forcing cone taper would affect anything. No manufacturer in history has been able to prove prove that it does: not one. Patterns are Gaussian, there is no such thing as a pattern that is more even than the other based on forcing cone or choke. Consistency of shot in diameter, density, and velocity shell-to-shell . . . yes, but there is no basis for a forcing cone to do anything except keep a cheap wad from leaking.
@nospam34093 жыл бұрын
@@RandyWakemanI I have 50 or 60 pattern boards that say otherwise. All 5 of these shotguns produced patterns that were very uneven with consistent large gaps in the center regardless of what choke was used. I tried every size factory choke available for the 835, 500, and the first 870 along with a handful of extended turkey chokes. I bought an extended forcing cone reamer and reamed the 835. The pattern was drastically more consistent and even with all of the tubes. The 500 wasn't as bad, but it also showed improvement after reaming the forcing cone. Never been a huge mossberg fan, so I finally picked up a used 870 express. I was having problems connecting on birds, so I checked the pattern with several chokes and noticed the same problem. The center of the pattern was always sparse with all the chokes. After reaming, the pattern was a lot more evenly dispersed with all of the chokes. No more problems connecting with the birds. A couple of years later my dad bought a new 870 express and couldn't hit anything with it. He taped a clay pigeon to a target board 20 yards away and fired 2 shots at it. The pattern was centered on the clay pigeon, but it only had 2 holes in it. He sent the barrel to me and I reamed the forcing cone. It patterns fine now. I'm not saying there's anything to any of the marketing hype. I'm saying that there are some shotgun barrels that consistently produce a pattern with very few hits near the center of the pattern. I've had 5 shotguns that have had this problem. Reaming the forcing cone fixed all five of them. The patterns are not perfect by any means, but the bulk of the pellets now hit relatively close to the center of the pattern for all 5 of them. Before, you could easily fit a pheasant into the center of the pattern at 30 yds and rarely put more than 2 or 3 #5 pellets in the body while the bulk of the shot was centered on some point randomly located in one of the outer quadrants. You are welcome to believe that I'm full of manure. I'm not a gun smith, and I have no services or products for sale. I've just done this 5 times in a row with the same results every time. Would I ream an ithica that had a short cone but patterned well? Heck no. If it's not broke, don't fix it. On the other hand, if the pattern normally has big enough gaps in the center that it would struggle to take a bird out of the air at 30 yds with IC, Mod, and/or Full choke, then there's nothing to loose by trying.
@RandyWakeman3 жыл бұрын
What you are referring to is not an "even" pattern at all, but central thickening. See www.claytargettesting.com/Terms/pdfs/Central%20Thickening.pdf . A reamer (Clymer and others) does not get you a long forcing cone, only 1-1/2 inch. Removing metal weakens the barrel, voids all warranties, and in the case of chrome-lined bores, removes the hard-chrome and invites corrosion as well. For turkey loads, the high performance loads are all tungsten-- which does not deform in the first place. Long cones get you blooper / misfires with cheap wads as well.
@NoWr2Run3 жыл бұрын
No Spam, TOTALLY AGREE ON LENGTHENING THE FORCING CONE
@gadgethunter57323 жыл бұрын
Randy , was it you that queried the Browning rep about seeing some hard data on pattern improvements ? The reply being that all the fancy bore improvements DID NOT make patterns worse? Can't remember where I read that, but it made me laugh. Oh almost forgot. How did you manage to kill a turkey with anything less than a 3.5" gun and 2 oz. lead?
@RandyWakeman3 жыл бұрын
Yes. Recently, I had a long session with one of top engineers in the industry, whose company has recently introduced a lengthened forcing cone on a couple of new models. After exchanging the usual pleasantries, the subject of forcing cones was breached. "You did some extensive R & D with these models, correct? A large quantity of shooting, carefully documented, with a variety of shells?" After being assured that this was indeed the case, with a great deal of time and money spent, I was told the new forcing cones gave beautiful and better patterns. Naturally, I asked, "What can you show?" In other words, after all this R & D work, with a clean slate and the ability to use any forcing cone length you please, what is the documented benefit? A more even pattern? A higher percentage pattern? A 5% higher percentage pattern? 2%? 1%? The answer was, "Well, no. We couldn’t quantify any of that." I was a bit surprised. Nothing? No trend? Something perhaps with steel or other chaotic shot? Nothing with higher velocity loads, or higher payload loads? Nothing, not even an average of three pellets per shot increase in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards? The answer was clear: "No, we couldn’t find anything. The physics are sound, though, and it should work. We can say it doesn’t hurt anything."
@lukedog70283 жыл бұрын
Surprised the guy was that honest.
@firefighterwolfАй бұрын
How about starting with a gun that doesn’t pattern worth a darn? Would lengthening the forcing cone on it improve the patterning?
@nightvan44273 жыл бұрын
Hi, Sir, The gun was old browning a5?
@RandyWakeman3 жыл бұрын
Yes, an A-5 Magnum Twenty.
@RandyWakeman3 жыл бұрын
When they made them, very few wanted them. As soon as they stopped, "everybody" wanted them.
@doctormdds3 жыл бұрын
@@RandyWakeman Human nature I suppose
@Helpline581510 ай бұрын
My old Auto 5 with a 30" barrel and a fixed full choke gave a horrible pattern at 30 yards from a seated position. From the same stance and distance, my 1100 had a better pattern. The A5 put very little in the turkey head target, the 1100 put a lot more in. The 1100 also had a fixed full choke.