Long HDMI Cables for ATEM Mini Switchers and Other Applications

If you need to run an HDMI video signal from a camera to an ATEM Mini switcher more than about 8 meters, you need something more than a long cable. Let's talk about the options.
►HDMI Fiber Optic Cable - djp.li/hdmioptical
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►AT875R Microphone - djp.li/at875r
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[@HajongLee]

I love these videos. It is so practical plus you include all the associated little tid bits of info that we might have questions on. Thank you, Doug.

[@richard7crowley]

Thanks, Doug. Your findings match my own experience with the issues of HDMI over long distance. There are also HDMI to optical fiber converters, but they are priced where you might as well use the BMD Camera Converter.

[@jmwallace01]

Thank you. That is exactly the question I had regarding long distance remote control of color/etc with BMCCs.

[@takeonevideo9726]

Thanks for the info, always good to hear others input. I wanted to mention I use the Orei HDMI Extender UltraHD Over Single Cat6/Cat7 Cable 4K @ 60Hz and this unit has an HDMI loop out. I find that to be helpful if I need to run a confidence monitor to the talent as well as get the signal to my Atem or an external recorder/monitor for a camera operator that doesn't have a loop out.

[@matesaktesak]

Cool, I have just picked up a BMD Micro HDMI to SDI convertor 3 hours before the video was published, seems that I have made a good choise 😉

[@RealRickCox]

The overhead mic sounded great. I use a pair of Sennheiser ME66 mics overhead in my studio mainly because most of my clients prefer the look and I don't have to worry about any interference with wireless mics.

[@inneractive]

Just ordered Highwings 4K60HZ 50 FT HDMI Cable Fiber Optic Long, Unidirectional 2.0 High-Speed HDMI Braided Cord. Looking forward to testing.

[@22pmproduction59]

is it work well?

[@QuikTechSolutions]

Thanks so much Doug! As always, great content!

[@MrJani0951]

i using 50m fiber optic HDMI cable and works perfect. There is no any delay or interrupting, works like i have 1meter length cable

[@The_Word_in_Motion]

Same experience for me too... 50m, super flexible easy to manage and no powered converters necessary... now if only hdmi had locking connectors!

[@patstraub]

Yes same experience for me too! Works great with out any issue

[@yunmoh628]

By far, this video is the most comprehensive and accurate. I've tried many options for connecting a PC to a TV over 25 feet apart. With cable management, it ended up to be 50 feet. My choice is Ethernet cable. The fiber-optic didn't work as mentioned.

[@otter-pro]

I've been using SDI runs for 100ft and it has always been the most reliable solution. We also have HDMI extender (ethernet) in a dedicated network but had some reliability issue.

[@jurgenmiemer3772]

Hello Doug, I enjoy your videos, as they are comming from your heart of practical experience. The shotgun mike sounds good. I can hear some ducking effect when you put something on your table, maybe you have to tweak your compresser/limmiter settings to release faster. Another solution I often use are DVI/HDMI to fiber converters. They are pretty good when fiber runs are available in a building, or for long outdoor runs as the connection is isolated. With multimode fiber they can do up to 500 meters, with singlemode much more. The simple CAT converters (only amplifying the signal on both ends) do work with good quality patchcables, but most times not when patched over CAT runs in buildings. I mostly dont use them anymore. The other thing is HD-BaseT. I use it some time, as most newer projectors (conference rooms etc.) are equiped with it. Another great thing is a HDMI-h264 encoder sending to a multicast IP, received by many players/screens within a LAN by only using 4-8 Mbit/s bandwith once. But this has latency, so only useful for distributing to other rooms. The maximum length of SDI depends on damping at the used frequency. The higher the resolution the shorter the maximum length. A SDI connection should not have more than 20 dB signal loss for a stable operation. An old time standard rg59 for example is OK up to 60m at 720p/1080i but only up to 40m at 1080p.

[@RoggyTime]

Great content Doug, keep up the great work

[@CNC-Time-Lapse]

One other solution that I have used in the past was HDMI Optical Transceivers with both upstream/downstream (two optical cables) per transceiver (one at both ends). A decent solution if your video source is coming from a computer and you need two-way communication. I used 4 sets of these in a production setup with a desktop computer going to several monitors using a Roland video switcher (it was an older setup before the ATEM Mini was released). It worked reliably well for the displays. Previously, I was running super long HDMI cables (I kid you not, 100ft... mistake!) and after a few months, was losing signal, than switched to the CAT5 method, but ran into similar issues with signal loss and unreliable connections. I think mainly because the cables had to run by power lines in the ceiling of the building and was corrupting the signal due to interference. The optical solution worked for me as it was not affected by electrical interference. That said, if that didn't work, I would absolutely try the SDI route.

[@seanNetX]

Thanks for this video, I trust it will help a lot of people, especially those trying to save cost. I ran into similar problems setting up the Atem Mini Pro for my church. I had erroneously invested a lot of money buying 50 metres HDMI cables for our three camera setup. I realized each cable only worked when connected to input one, HDMI into other inputs (2 and 3) had no signal or atimes fuzzy images. It was so disappointing cos we had invested a lot into buying the three 50metres HDMI cables. Our solution was to go the SDI option. We had to buy only one SDI to HDMI converter per camera cos our cameras (Sony pro camcorders) already had SDI output. My point here's if you want to send long distance video signals into the mini pro, don't attempt to use HDMI, you won't get reliable results.

[@Gobhoblin126]

Great video, I have a few other notes on HDMI over Cat5 extenders. You can get models that only requite power on one end. Also for the most part these are not inter-compatible and must be used in pairs, they can be damaged by connecting different models to each other. The exception to this is HDbaseT models, this is a standard and they will usually work together.

[@atvridah]

Audio was great! I use the same mic on my Panasonic CX350

[@TomQsTechTips]

Not a glamorous subject but very helpful. Thank you.

[@AndrewMD03]

awesome content! the shotgun sounded great.

[@bryankjones]

Greetings. I like the sound quality of this video over the previous versions.

[@garyb2b]

Audio sounded great Doug...

[@samgillespie]

Thank you - super helpful video!! 🙌🏼

[@GearoidBourkeBrandBox]

Thanks Doug your timing for this is spot on for me. I've spent the last few days testing everything you've listed and came to the same conclusions as you. SDI conversion is the only thing I haven't tried. Thanks again.

[@PaulDGreen]

Cool info! The audio sounds great, at least on my phone

[@DaveCrowther]

Mic sounds natural and great. I prefer hidden mics on or above the talent whenever I can.

[@mltvideos572]

Great info! Thank you!

[@victorrodriguez-di8cq]

nice video i learned a lot! thanks !

[@jeremyryannoel]

First experience with HDMI for my church, I ordered a braided 75’ with a “booster,” and it was ran in the rafters. About 1.5 years later, it starts failing, especially because a splitter was on the other end, sending the signal to two screens. Before it started to become unusable, I learned about SDI, and the price had me taken aback at first. Once I showed my pastor the reasons why for SDI, we took the plunge with converters, and haven’t had trouble since. We also started using SDI in our installs for other churches, not a single complaint. At least in this configuration, it’s most likely the HDMI at the target or source that needs replaced which isn’t a problem.

[@jimfromzerosurge4846]

Thank you very much for the video! Shot gun mic was perfectly fine. I found that one can cause the HDMI chip on the monitor to burn out if using active HDMI cables and a wimpy computer to output the signals. Cat6 cables worked much better.

[@BowlRilla]

This video really helped me, thank you very much!!!

[@bret924]

thanks for the info, very informative.

[@nunmawia6910]

We used HDMI spiltter for signal boosting. So we can run about 30-40 metre. According to what type of HDMI cable

[@s208richard8]

HD-SDI with a pair of quality repeaters/ re-clockers is good for 300 metres. Beyond that, fibre-optic is the way to go - 6 km - if you have enough cable! I've good experiences with hdmi-fibreoptic from 5m/ 10m/ 20m/ 30m up to 50metres, 100 works depending on what is connected, as you mentioned. But you pay for quality, my 30m hdmi-fibre cables cost around US$300 each, and the 50m was around $400.

[@westincross886]

Excellent audio with the shotgun mic

[@ishizukahikaru643]

I work a lot of sub contract gigs and usually always carry around (HDMI equalizer/booster) just in case the client or circumstances require HDMI over long distance. Had sometimes HDMI signal boosting over 50m with flawless signals. I also think what helps is people should take time learning video formats, so if in a situation getting hit/miss you will know thats it's either a format miss match or distance fall off when trouble shooting on site.

[@SonaTria]

Than you so for this video, Thank you.

[@nicholastoo858]

This is dope!

[@magnusgotander7788]

Acceptable sound with the shotgun in this studio.

[@cobylax33]

I actually tried the HDMI TO SDI conversion using the Blackmagic mini converters into Atem Mini, but had terrible problems. Sometimes during testing it would work flawlessly on a multi-camcorder setup (3xCanon Vistia HF R800), other times i would get flicker and yet other times i would get complete signal loss from a camcorder. HDMI input 1 on the switcher seemed to be the most reliable, but still not great. It seems like the system didn't like the Converted SDI feed. Note that we cut large 250ft runs of SDI, but we made sure they were within spec and all cables . Also note that the camcorders we were using had HDMI-mini out, so we had to use 6" HDMI- mini to HDMI adapters. My next attempt is using long run HDMI fiber cables. I have 50, 100, 150 and 200ft runs of each. I have tested them all out and have had no issue with signal at all and no additional latency. Signal quality/latency from 200ft fiber optic cable was no different than a 6" standard HDMI cable. I tested multiple hours running it to both Zoom and streaming to KZbin on multiple, multi-hour sessions and had no issues. I even stacked all the cabling and power supplies on top of each other at times to try to cause interference (I know that fiber isn't supposed to have electrical interference). Now, all of this is in "testing" scenarios. So I will have to see how it runs in an actual ballroom, but here's hoping. In an ideal world, I would be using a camcorder with native SDI output, but those cost at least 10x what I paid for the camcorders I have and so I can't justify the expenditure.

[@bob76451]

Good information

[@livesportsvideo03]

HDMI over RJ45 encapsulated extender has worked for me on many occasions for distances of 30 metres or less without fail, fingers crossed.

[@miserepoignee9594]

Best budget solution that works decent: Crestron dm-tx-201-c and dm-rmc-100-c to convert HDMI to cat5e/6 and back. Pros: *Extremely cheap relative to other options ($50 can buy one of each used on ebay) *Made by a company that makes professional AV equipment, so good reliability *Can interact with other HDbaseT equipment, including Crestron DMPS units for more complicated switching if you have access to their stupid proprietary software (no software needed to use the tx/rx by themselves, though) Cons: *Capped at 1080p60 (Crestron makes a 4k model, but it's much more expensive) *Power supplies have been known to be sketchy, best to replace with a 24V 1A unit (factory spec is .7A).

[@Sixta16]

Also good to mention, that HDMI to SDI conversion may not be lossless, as SDI uses YUV colorspace with 4:2:2 subsampled color. Standard computers output in 4:4:4 RGB. This loss may not be perceivable with normal video signal from a camera, but computer graphics with high contrast edges may look slightly degraded. Degradation may be further increased whenever the HDMI to SDI box needs to do any kind of video scaling - that is almost always, when video framerate and/or resolution does not fit exact SMPTE spec selected for the SDI output.

[@djp_video]

There is a lot more than just subsampling that is going to reduce the quality of the signal. But the switchers run in YCrCb too, so the same conversion takes place either way. I'll be doing a video in hopefully the near future on the differences between RGB and YCrCb and just how much data is lost in the conversions going in both directions. It's a lot more than we think.

[@stopandthinknow]

The sound is quite acceptable with the shotgun mic. In fact, if you had not mentioned it at the end, I would have not been aware.

[@SixStringGrace]

I've had pretty good luck with the 100' HDMI cables that have an inline booster. I use them to go from an HDMI splitter at the PC/source to TV's around a very large room. I've tried 1080p and 4k (2160p) with no issues. They tend to be around $60.

[@FatihVideographer]

Sound great ! Which one ? And does the cable come with a power adapter / cable ?

[@pgdh]

I've found that some HDMI splitters are less fussy about signal quality than the ATEM Minis. So you can run a longer HDMI cable from the camera to the splitter than would work direct to the switcher. Also port 1 on the ATEM Minis seems less fussy (by design?) One big plus for SDI is that it is cheap easy to maintain. If a connector gets damaged, just crimp another. If a cables gets cut, you can make two shorter cables and use a barrel connector to join them. HDMI cables, by contrast, are essentially unmaintainable. The hybrid copper/fibre HDMI cables are great, but even more costly to scrap if they are damaged. Fibre is just more fragile and fussy about bend radius than coax. That said, if you respect your gear and keep your cable runs safe, the hybrid cables can still be very convenient (just have some spares ready for live work). I found the HDMI over IP extenders are ok for remote relay screens, but the latency makes them useless for much else. Yes, they will also saturate a gigabit link, but most Ethernet switches will be fine point-to-point. Bandwidth should only be an issue if you have to traverse multiple switches with limited uplink capacity. Amazon Prime is a great way to test different options with no risk - I just send back the stuff that doesn't do what I need. Prefer the new mic. A Shure SM7B (or similar) would sound a lot better, but you'd probably need a Dynamite inline preamp (or similar) and a tasteful boom arm (like the Rode PSA1). Visually, all the rage just now :)

[@milbrewerman]

I convert HDMI to CAT5 and have it run 150 ft (45m) works great

[@yankeeboy135]

Gracias

[@MQMirza95]

This is by far the best review I have come across for long HDMI solutions. Doug what would your recommendation be for a large venue such as houses of worship where we need to do long HDMI runs to multiple displays/projectors in the hall? As inputs we would have a PTZ camera for live video (supports HDMI, SDI and NDI output) as well as computers for presentations I was thinking of maybe HDMI over Ethernet splitters or using SDI splitters.

[@djp_video]

If your facility already has coax cable run to the displays, and they happen to be TVs with built-in tuners, one easy solution is to use an ATSC encoder/modulator and distribute that signal to the TVs. One that I found on Amazon which isn't that expensive is amzn.to/3KcCBt9. I haven't tried this particular model though so I can't speak to how well it works (I have another model which is much more expensive). This solution would add noticeable latency to the signal, so if you need lip sync to a sound system this isn't a good option. If your facility already has individual coax runs to each display but the displays don't have tuners, you could send SDI and use inexpensive SDI-to-HDMI converters at the displays ( amzn.to/3jHZOZh ) and an SDI distribution amplifier ( amzn.to/3JRlAEn ) at the head end. SDI is limited to about 100m even with good quality cable, though, so if you had longer runs you'd need to reclock the signal somewhere along the line. (The same SDI-to-HDMI converter can be used to reclock the signal -- use the SDI Loop output to continue the run up to another 100 meters to the next unit.) If you have CAT 5/6 cable run to each display, you can use something like this: amzn.to/3DR1Qx6. You'd need one set for each four displays. But often these don't allow for very long cable runs, so it wouldn't be my first choice. There are some solutions out there that send video over Ethernet networks. In my experience, the video quality isn't that good, or they add significant latency, or are limited in how many displays you can connect, or saturate the network with data to the point where no other devices have enough remaining bandwidth to work (even with proper Ethernet switching hardware), or all of the above. It's a risky option and I wouldn't recommend it. But one thing I definitely would not do would be to try to run HDMI natively, even with optical cables. Even if you got it to work, it likely wouldn't work for long. HDMI just wasn't designed for that and you'd be pushing it well past its design limitations.

[@predator_freeland]

Listening via phone speaker your audio sounds fine. :)

[@philipsantiago4080]

You can use fiber optic hdmi it can get up to 200/300 feet without attentuation and you can get them with arc enabled. It saves on hardware and extra cables

[@paoloposo]

One interesting method left out is HDBaseT. It's HDMI over CAT cable (point to point, not Ethernet/IP, so not switchable using network equipment but there are splitters for it as well). In contrast to the various manufacturer-specific solutions this is a standard, so equipment from different manufacturers can be used together. Either converter (source or destination) can also supply power to the other one through the CAT cable. It wouldn't be my first choice for camera signals, but it's great for hooking up monitors/projectors in corporate, conference, educational and home cinema scenarios.

[@djp_video]

I mentioned it in passing. I don’t have any practical experience with it though so I didn’t cover it in detail

[@paoloposo]

@@djp_video Oh I didn't catch it then.

[@AmauryJacquot]

mike is good !

[@JorgieMathew]

SDI method is the best!!! For prosumers!!

[@Dglock0]

Mic is good 👍🏾

[@VoxLesPaul]

4:49 Copper is not required to accompany the fiber optic cable in the plastic jacket. Pins on the HDMI connector are dedicated to 5VDC (pin 18) and ground (pin 17) to power the copper-to-fiber (and fiber-to-copper) converters embedded in the send and receive HDMI connectors. The voltage comes from the HDMI transmitter and receiver devices.

[@djp_video]

It isn't required, but it is commonly used for low bandwidth data.

[@EasyyokeFilms]

We use Fibre HDMI in my church. We have 5 of it. 80Metre and Multiple 50Metres and they all work. The major downside which I am worried about right now is that they are so fragile. One of them already has an issue in the connecting end. They are really fragile. If you will be packing them and unpacking them, I am not sure they are a long lasting solution. Yes they work. But they are really fragile. And once they spoil, because they are expensive, you will not be happy atall. I am already thinking of going the SDI way and using Blackmagic converters. I really wish those Fibre HDMI are durable. They work straight out of the box. Just the fragility is my major concern

[@djp_video]

This is why when I use fiber cables I go for the armored versions. That isn't really an option for the HDMI optical cables though.

[@newfoundmass]

This was prefect timing! So I'm doing live production for pro wrestling and concerts and will need the most reliable lengthy connection... It sounds like the final option, going with SDI conversions on both ends, is probably the way to go?

[@djp_video]

It gives you the best compatibility with other live video production systems, that's for sure.

[@luisschaerer3443]

Thanks Doug for these interesting and instructive videos, one question, what was the longest distance you used to send from a camera to an ATEM, and what cable system did you use, thank you very much for your answer

[@djp_video]

I've run signals over 500 meters before. I pretty much use fiber for anything over 20-30 meters.

[@luisschaerer3443]

@@djp_video Thank you very much!!!

[@HackingHollywood]

I think the audio is very acceptable! I'm assuming the coax cable would be limited to HDSDI or less? Guess it depends on the quality of the wire and when it was produced.

[@djp_video]

That depends on the quality of the cable and its length. Even a low quality cable can carry 12G-SDI over a short distance. That's certainly a discussion I didn't want to get into in this video. It was already long enough :)

[@shproductions03]

The audio is better it doesn’t sound so bloated and proximity effects like, usually it’s a little distorted to it sounds like you always have something a little too hot it’s just a tiny bit crunchy sometimes. This sounds more natural. It is a little noisier but it’s also more natural. Pros and cons

[@JohnnyMotel99]

So much BM kit in your trailer, I'm surprised they don't sponsor you.

[@djp_video]

I'd rather not have a sponsor. But BMD knows that I don't like their cameras, so I'm probably not an ideal match for them.

[@KLRCAT]

Optical HDMI cables (Although pricy) are the way forward, especially if you are using Blackmagic cameras with your ATEM as you will be able to use camera control with just one cable to the camera (instead of 2 SDI). I've found that with the Cat5 extenders and SDI to HDMI converters, they both introduce 4 additional points of failure, as I have had on multiple occasions the converter or extender fail for some reason, and have had to swap in either a decimator or another converter/extender/cable, or the power supply has failed (especially since Blackmagic doesn't always offer a power supply). With the HDMI optical cable there are only ever gonna be 4 points of failure at most: The Cable itself, The Source (resolution or refresh/frame rate), The Display (Faulty TV, broken port etc.) or an adaptor (HDMI to mini HDMI commonly break, so best to have multiple backups)

[@djp_video]

HDMI is always going to be less reliable than SDI - it wasn’t designed for this type of use. For example, HDMI expects a negotiation between source and receiving devices as to what resolution, frame rate, color depth, color format, audio format and bitrate. Additionally, some devices are picky about HDCP. None of those things takes place with SDI - whatever setting you use on your source device is what gets sent, greatly simplifying things. When we have issues with video devices not working, or working inconsistently, in a video production environment, 9 times out of 10 it is because we’re having to use HDMI for something. And I can say from working with video professionals and viewers of this channel that nearly everyone who starts going down the HDMI path eventually switches to SDI because the headaches just get to be too much to deal with. Running two cables for camera control is less convenient than running one, but it is far more reliable (and cheaper) and doesn’t just give you camera control - it also gives you return video so the camera operator can see what’s live on the Program feed, and intercom as well. HDMI is a pretty significant compromise. Those optical HDMI cables are also a lot more fragile than any SDI cable. The best option without going to fiber is to use an SDI switcher with SDI cameras. That’s always going to be more reliable. Even NDI can’t touch it. With SDI you’re using the devices and connections in a way that they were meant to be, not an awkward hack, repurposing a consumer technology to do something it was never intended to.

[@KLRCAT]

@@djp_video I get your point. I'm more talking in relation to when using solely HDMI based devices (TV's, DSLRs, ATEM Mini etc), as if you use a HDMI based cable, you don't need to introduce multiple converters with their own points of failure. I specifically experienced the 3G & 12G SDI Blackmagic converters (sometimes) randomly failing on me for no apparent reason, and when I swapped in a Decimator it worked (this almost drove me insane on a couple of jobs). I think (on that occasion) it had something to do with the TV requiring a scaled input You are right though, If I was using an SDI based switcher along with SDI cameras, I would most defiantly use SDI cables.

[@JimToscano]

Hi Doug as always thanks for the great info. Question will this extended work with a capture device on the other end? The pair from cable matters won’t pass the signal through a Magewell HDMI Capture Plus. Have you tested any brands with a separate capture ??? Thanks so much!

[@djp_video]

I haven't tried it, but I don't know any reason why it wouldn't inherently work.

[@JimToscano]

Thanks Doug. I believe the issue with some cat extenders typically add HDCP to the signal, even if the input source is a camera. So I guess the answer is to check with the extender's manufacturer regarding compatibility. Thats why I prefer SDI converters as they do not add or require HDCP. Unfortunately my client wired his whole studio with cat6. Thanks again!

[@tezzastutes]

Here's a nasty hack I did at my church. joined a 10m cable with a 15m cable to reach destination. I put one of those cheap ebay HDMI splitters in the middle and powered it on. It boosts the signal. Been using it for a while and it works flawlessly. Without the splitter in the middle, there is no signal that the atem mini can pick up. It makes a difference which camera I us. It worked with an old JVC ccd camera which I since swapped out for the Lumix G9.

[@HerewithStudio]

Hmm, i have atem studio hd and pocket cinema, when i trying to control that camera with bidirectional SDI/HDMI switch, only incorect tally lights working. Maybe someone can help?

[@helgedell]

Great video, yet again. If you are running the signal from two cameras within HDMI reach, and two further away connected by HDMI-SDI and SDI-HDI to switcher, wouldnt that be a problem when it comes to lip-sync?

[@djp_video]

It shouldn't. The additional delay added by the HDMI-to-SDI then SDI-to-HDMI conversion would only be a couple of milliseconds. Way less than a frame of video.

[@CYBERSTORM101X]

@@djp_video Thank you so much for this video. I believe I asked you specifically about the last method you explained with the two bidirectional converters a couple of weeks back and am planning on implementing this method soon, so thank you so much for testing this out. Love all the information in the videos you produce thay have helped me so much thanks again.

[@brosinmktg]

Brilliant! Right what I was looking for, you’ve covered like all the options possible😅. I’ve got a question though Doug, I’ve got an event in a medium size room and I think I could cover with 20m HDMI fibre optic which I haven’t tried yet but now after watching this video it may potentially work. My question is more about the camera side and Atem switcher using the fibre optic cable. With third party cameras (Sony in this case), how would you run the cameras? I guess you won’t have any camera control, Do you go to each camera, hit record and leave the camera running? And my second question from that would be, do you leave SD cards inside the cameras? The plan would be to use the Atem Mini Pro ISO and record externally on a SSD (maybe even from the USB C port on the Atem). Hope you can help me with those Doug. Liked and Subscribed 🙏🏼 cheers man

[@djp_video]

Only Blackmagic cameras in this price segment are remotely controllable. A few other brands have smartphone apps which allow some control, but these tend to be awkward and limited. For full camera control from other brands you have to step up to models with CCU capability and invest in the CCU units and appropriate cables. This brings an enormous jump in price.

[@GregStonham]

Really useful content - nice to just cut straight to the info without the "cinematic b-roll". I've been using 10 meter HDMI cables for my streaming setup, but need to get something more. Still weighing up if it's going to be 50 meter fibre cable ($A299) or jump straight to a Hollyland Mars ($A1000, but more versatile, easier to carry and setup). Not sure I trust the fibre optic HDMI. Anyone got any thoughts?

[@djp_video]

I wouldn't consider wireless if you need something reliable. And especially not the Mars series -- it has about 3-4 frames of latency, which is a killer for live production.

[@VickersDoorter]

30 metre-plus (98ft) Fibre HDMI is relatively cheap now. We just bought a load off Amazon for around £60 each and no connectivity/reliability issues at all. I like that the cable is only 5mm diameter, lays flat and coils very nicely.

[@CentexSportsTV]

Doug, looking for a solution that will allow me to run fiber from my tent to the pressbox in order to get internet and the audio from the play by play guys. Do not have the ATEM Converter 2 budget yet. Any other solutions or ideas. I use VMIX and or ATEM Mini

[@djp_video]

If you just need Internet and audio, I'd go with traditional Ethernet media converters and Dante.

[@FallenStarFeatures]

Have you tried substituting a BMD UpDownCross Converter for the HDMI-to-SDI Converter? The UpDownCross is useful for converting arbitrary camera resolution/frame rate to your switcher's video format, but I'm wondering if it imposes a perceptible video latency?

[@djp_video]

There is some delay that comes with the additional flexibility. But in my mind a bigger issue is the artifacts from the conversion -- really odd cadence in the case of frame rate conversion, or softening in the case of resolution scaling. From what I've heard the interlace-to-progressive conversion in the UpDownCross is particularly problematic, though I haven't tested this myself. I realize that sometimes you can't change your source to be a specific format, but too often it seems that people will use format converters rather than adjusting the source in cases where they could, resulting in a lower quality output than they could have otherwise.

[@FallenStarFeatures]

​@@djp_video - The I to P conversion is what I really have in mind, since camcorders are likely to be interlaced. The camera itself will have some frame delay, and I'm hoping the conversion latency won't be that much worse. I have an Extron frame rate converter I can try as well, and see which looks the best.

[@AaronYates]

What about these newer "fiber" HDMI cables that I've been hearing about? I didn't hear you cover them.

[@djp_video]

I did, starting at 04:37.

[@AaronYates]

@@djp_video Thanks! Sorry, I missed it.

[@gustersongusterson4120]

Do HDMI splitters add latency? I can't seem to find a latency spec. Some sources on the internet have said about 2ms... but I figured it would be zero latency OR one or two frames.

[@djp_video]

Not any measurable amount unless you get one of the special versions that can scale video from one format to another.

[@cchiakl]

What is the delay with the Cat 5/6 converters and SDI converters versus HDMI ?

[@djp_video]

To answer that you really need to know whether the signal conversion going on is passive or active. Passive conversion wouldn't add any additional latency. Active conversion, like with SDI to HDMI (where the signal type is being changed) does add some latency. In the case of the Blackmagic Mini/Micro converters, the amount of latency added by each converter is a few milliseconds... so far less than a single frame of video. HDMI to CAT5/6 converters come in both active and passive flavors. If latency is something that's really important to you, you'd need to find out which type they're using. But in either case, the amount of latency added is generally going to be very low. The one big exception is converting from a video signal to a computer network signal (Ethernet), which can add very significant delays.

[@MoChuang343]

Hey I know this is 2 years late…but I’m looking to connect my BMPCC 4K and ATEM mini around 50ft. I need camera control as well. What would be your recommended method in 2023? I’ve been looking at hybrid optical HDMI cables with some copper in them to handle eARC and CEC going backwards. Or looking at HDbaseT cat5 converter, which I think also carry the backward signals required…

[@djp_video]

Optical HDMI would probably be the first thing I'd try today if HDMI is a must. But I'd probably try to go with SDI if I could, maybe even to the point of swapping out the ATEM for a model with SDI -- it's designed for that, whereas HDMI was not. A simple Bi-directional Micro Converter 3G would convert and pass all of the required signals. Most people are happier and have a better experience making the switch. Fighting HDMI for forever gets old.

[@MoChuang343]

@@djp_video thanks for the reply. I have to setup and teardown every week since we dont own the space. My concern it the added time of setting up SDI converters and running 2 SDI cables per camera. Optical sounds much simpler, but also, not sure if the cables are more liable to break since they will be packed up and driven to a storage unit and back every week. Do you have any experience with how fragile/durable optical HDMI is?

[@akmediaproductions]

Is there a way to run 4K HDR over SDI? Is so please share a link if you have it handy

[@djp_video]

HDR and SDR are the same in terms of what the SDI signal looks like -- the only difference is how the 10 bits of data are decoded on the display. They're both still 10 bits. What you need to do is make sure your cable is rated for 4K. In the case of SDI, that means 6G-SDI for 4K at 24/25/30 frames per second, or 12G-SDI for 4K at 48, 50, or 60 frames per second. The Belden UHD coax cables would be my choice. www.belden.com/products/cable/broadcast-cable/sdi-video-coax-cable/12g-sdi. But Canare makes equally good cable as well.

[@akmediaproductions]

@@djp_video Doug thank you.. so much. Appreciate your time..

[@zingerpro]

Any recommendations for a Ethernet cable? Something that can coil nicely hand get to 100-150'?

[@djp_video]

I haven't really shopped around. I make my own cables

[@zingerpro]

@@djp_video That is a great option but the same question applies, one needs to purchase a reel of some brand and model to do so, what do you use if I may ask?

[@djp_video]

Typically whatever I can get a good deal on. The quality variations from one brand to another aren't as big as one might expect.

[@JimmyDThing]

What issues have you had with long hdmi cables? I've been using 50-100 ft cables for 2 years and only long 1 cable because someone stepped on the end.

[@djp_video]

General unreliability -- either not working at all, or the picture cutting in and out. HDMI was designed for short connections (

[@EasyyokeFilms]

Hi Douglas, we I want to get five 100metres SDI cables. We will be using it for full HD video only. No 4K. Can you please recommend one you have been using that is not too expensive and is reliable. Please drop the link

[@djp_video]

Belden 1505A cable with Canare BNC connectors. Works great, and is pretty affordable.

[@jurgenmiemer3772]

For fixed installation a cheap trick is to use coax cable made for sattelite dishes. Look for cable with foam dielectric at 1,0/4,8 mm inner/outer diameter and with 100% copper conductor (no c.c.s). For mobile use look for a more flexible cable. FullHD... 1080i or 1080p? Look for a cable wich has less than 20 dB damping per 100m: For 1080i near 750 Mhz. For 1080p near 1500 Mhz. My favorite BNC connectors are from Neutrik, as they can be twistet from rear, wich is easier to handle on the BMD switchers, because the connectors there are so close to each other.

[@dennypilot9856]

Are there HDMI to Fiber converter similar to SDI to Fiber from Blackmagic?

[@djp_video]

Kind of. Their ATEM Camera Converter product converts SDI or HDMI to Fiber and vice versa. But it's not really designed as a general-purpose converter. Other than that, no.

[@apstreaming]

I recently tried to run the HDMI output of an ATEM Mini switcher over a pair of Sewell HDMI-Ethernet converters with no success. Tried inserting a splitter at the HDMI source (ATEM) and the into the converter, still didn’t work. Reached out to Sewell for some explanation and they had no response since they never tested this configuration. Asked BMD and they said essentially that it’s hit or miss and didn’t recommend using HDMI to Ethernet converters. I’m curious as to whether you’ve tried those on the output side of an ATEM. Btw the converter worked just fine with a PC input direct.

[@djp_video]

I haven’t used an HDMI extender on an ATEM output. I’ve used them on most other devices, but not an ATEM output. I usually avoid HDMI whenever possible. My primary switcher is the 2 M/E Production Studio and it uses SDI. SDI is far more reliable than HDMI.

[@apstreaming]

@@djp_video agreed! Lesson learned on this one. I actually had the SDI converters but not enough SDI cable on hand. Rectifying that situation.

[@EugeneMaynard]

👍🏾🙏🏾

[@YeshuDarbarAllahabad]

ATEM Mini Pro: Multi-view goes on and off - What type of HDMI Cable I need to get for this?😥 HELP !!!!

[@djp_video]

It doesn’t require a special cable. Are you running over a long distance? Have you verified that the cable and monitor work with other sources?

[@YeshuDarbarAllahabad]

OK I will check that. Thank you@@djp_video

[@nahasmk5508]

Hdmi to Optical fiber conversion

[@eazyee1939]

hello what should I do if I need a HDMI to HDMI 100 meters and I use black magic from HDMI to SDI then black magic from SDI to hdmi but some time cable get overload voltage and get damge and its very expansive so i think about cat6 so any idea

[@djp_video]

What resolution/frame rate are you using?

[@eazyee1939]

@@djp_video like 720 up to HD ( is there any good convector HD to cat and cat to HD or good fiber-optic cable company and I don't it's ok with expensive ill-paid one time :) the over way place 150 m

[@mondotv4216]

I think going HDMI to SDI and back again is not practical except for fixed cameras. It is however ideal for SDI based cameras. 1 locked on cable with the SDI - HDMI converter at the switch end. One thing that wasn’t explored was wireless. I guess that’s a different video.

[@djp_video]

It's also useful if you need to connect into another video system that uses SDI, or you want to run signals over 75-ohm coax already installed in a building. I'll have to do a proper video on wireless before. It's expensive to get it right, and I'd wager that most people using ATEM Minis aren't going to be excited about ponying up the dough to get one that works well.

[@FatihVideographer]

I am having issues trying to extend the hdmi outputs of the mini extreme :/ Powered splitters won’t help.. Any suggestions? Thanks

[@djp_video]

This video is a summary of my ideas for extending HDMI.

[@FatihVideographer]

@@djp_video I see. The methods that work for me to extend cameras into the atem mini models, don’t seem to work for extending the hdmi outputs of them.. Am looking for a fix, have u ever tried to extend the hdmi outputs of the device ?

[@djp_video]

I've done it over SDI a few times and that has worked just fine.

[@FatihVideographer]

@@djp_video Thank you for your reply. Now I know a method that will work for sure.

[@a.l3150]

@@FatihVideographer Hey! What methods do you use to extend the cameras on the atem mini?

[@explodingPSYCH]

Clarification: Will the ethernet option work with camera control for Black Magic Pocket cameras?

[@djp_video]

Probably not.

[@lmsctv]

Used HDMI cables up to 40mts, with BDM gear (sony cam sets), have never needed to use boosters or spliters, have never ever had an issue.

[@djp_video]

Count yourself lucky, and knock on wood. They very rarely work past about 20 meters, and even when they do, it isn't for long.

[@lmsctv]

HDMI cables are just like any type of cable (BNC/SDI, Fiber ect), the more you pay the better quality. Cheap ones may/may not last/work. There is a manufacturer in Aus called Concord that make HDMI up to 100meters - they all work with BDM / production gear, but of course are pricey. We have used them on various terrestrial TV OB productions for several years, only ever had to replace them when they've been physically damaged. They go just as well with the SDI, fiber, triax/multicore cables we use.

[@djp_video]

They aren't the same -- not even remotely. HDMI is a more complicated signal broken up into 7 separate pairs of signal lines (6 pairs for data, one pair for clock) in the cable rather than a single signal sent in serial like SDI/fiber. For HDMI to work properly all 7 of those signals have to arrive, and do so at the destination device at the same time. Timing tolerances are very tight. That is difficult to do, particularly as cables get longer. It also means that because you've got a lot more wires inside your cable that each one is a lot thinner than you'd coax (which only has to carry one signal) so the cables are much more fragile and subject to damage. A fully-specced HDMI cable contains 29 signal wires. That's a lot to pack into a single cable assembly, particularly if you want those to be large enough to not attenuate the signals much. You can also run into clocking and equalization issues over longer runs. Better quality cables can help, but you start to run into the laws of physics. Higher frequencies travel faster than lower frequencies and as a cable gets longer that difference is exaggerated making it harder to decode. The receiving device has to reassemble all of that, and HDMI devices usually aren't equipped to handle those timing differences whereas SDI devices are, since it was designed with long runs in mind from its inception. On top of all of that, since HDMI was designed for short runs, electronics that drive it are only meant to generate signals that are robust enough to work over short distances. Again, better quality cables can help, but only so much. You have lucked out in finding a combination of devices and cables that works over a distance. That isn't normal. You're using it in a way for which it wasn't designed -- pushing it past its design limits. And, like MANY viewers that I've interacted with that start out using long HDMI cables, you may find in time that they stop working or become intermittent and you need to switch to a signal type that _was_ meant to do what you're doing. I've heard the same story from viewers more times than I can count -- HDMI starts out fine at first, but pretty soon it becomes unreliable. You're without a doubt tempting fate. Now, if you're using HDMI cables that use optical fiber for data transmission, that's another thing altogether. Those can work well (again, to a point since they usually only use fiber in one direction so you're still stuck with copper for signals travelling in reverse).

[@lmsctv]

Wasn't comparing signal interfaces, that's a totally different subject/conversation. Said with HDMI cables, like all cables, you get what you pay for. We have never had a HDMI cable that does not work with BDM gear - we buy (and pay for) quality cables and never had one fail in 10yrs. Likely the examples of failures have been using cheap consumer end HDMI cables - $60 of a cable doesn't cut it in high end production. Should me multiple $100's. When a quality canare RG6 cable for SDI/BNC starts is $200-$300, it's surprising someone would pay $60 for a HDMI cable the same length and wonder why it doesn't work.

[@gustersongusterson4120]

It's a shame that the optical HDMI doesn't work well with computers as that would be their best use case in my opinion.

[@djp_video]

There are probably others that do. But when I tested this particular cable it really didn't want to pass a signal from a computer. Not sure why.

@@djp_video did you try it on a laptop? possibly doesn't supply enough power for it?

[@djp_video]

A couple different laptops and a desktop PC. Its hard to know the underlying reason with any certainty.

[@rogermartin1984]

Are you aware of HDMI fiber Optic Cable? You can now go clean one way (directional) 300 ft or more and it cost less than good regular HDMI cable with boosters.

[@djp_video]

I talk about them about 4:30 into the video.

[@freespeechmatters583]

How is the latency on these extenders?

[@djp_video]

The "regular" extender (OREI in this video) doesn't seem to add any latency. The IP-based extenders add a frame or two. The SDI conversion adds a couple of milliseconds -- not enough to be visible.

[@freespeechmatters583]

@@djp_video I have an ethernet based HDMI extender. The receiver end is powered through ethernet which is nice but the latency is very noticeable.

[@elvispresley2542]

Hdmi fiber seems to be trusted based on everything I'm reading. Maybe If you can set it and forget it?!?!

[@djp_video]

It can work well if supported by the connected devices, but it is fragile.