LONG TERM REVIEW: Velo-Orange Polyvalent

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Long term review of the Velo-Orange Polyvalent. One of my favorite bikes from last year, have my impressions changed?
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INSTAGRAM: pathlesspedaled #thesupplelife

[@wc3415]

The quill stem is a huge plus for bike touring. Coming up against a head wind? Drop the stem down for a bit of aero. Neck and back feeling tired near the end of a long ride? Pop the stem back up for a more upright position. Takes under a minute for adjustments. With threadless, it takes 5-10mins per adjustment.

[@lukashartwig3214]

After your first impressions had been so positive, I actually bough a Polyvalent Frame and built it up as a commuter. Love how easy it rides with a front load (Rawland Demi-Porteur with Wald 137, 15 lbs of groceries) and the general build quality. Also, it's quite a beautiful frame IMO. I'm neutral towards the headset/stem, but I'd preferred a bit livelier ride, both in the rear (acceleration) and front (responsiveness). It's definitely a rather chill bike. If only Surly combined the rear end of the Midnight Special with the front end geometry of the Pack Rat and put on disc brakes, I wouldn't hesitate a second.

[@cesargarcia5974]

I'm in interested in getting one. Have you tried bigger tires than the 650b 47mm? I know the packrat could fit 2inch 650b tires so its a tossup for me.

[@joshbirrittier9924]

I ride a Fairdale weekender and use it for say 40 mile camping trips but me and a few friends decided to build me a tour bike to cross America on and we settled on this frame

[@brianbechtol7329]

"Headtube Compliance" First time I've heard this term and never really thought about it until now

[@Nix_sound]

Velo also make a versatile frameset with loads of mounts called the piolet. It has a 11/8 steerer so may appeal to people put off by this older system of threaded rings. My main issue with both the polyvalent and the piolet is the lack of through axle, it's just so much stiffer when out of the saddle and noticeably less disc rub. I wish they'd upgrade to this system.

[@andrewdixon2873]

I promise I'm not a VO shill, but: VO also makes a quill stem with a 31.8 clamp size and removable faceplate. Might be a nice option for bar swaps and keeping the flex you like.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Yeah. Curious how that one stacks up!

[@sheilastallard]

Funny how steel and 1 inch threaded headsets come back, nice bike and keep the reviews coming !!!

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

They are quirky but have some cool “advantages” for sure :)

[@mjenk20236]

Interesting review. I had a chance to get a closeup view of a bare Polyvalent frame when I visited the VO store in Annapolis last fall. I was impressed with the quality of construction and how the fitting of wider tires into the frame was accomplished. I would have bought one on the spot but for the brakes and through axles.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Yeah. I know TAs are a dealbreaker for some. Prior to this we rode a disc bake Vaya with QR for the last 5 years and didn't have a problem with them. So for me it's not as big of a deal.

[@SurpriseMeJT]

Oddly, the steel bikes in the 90's were far more compliant than bikes today, even when they were made in Taiwan. Could it be that designing tube profiles and thicknesses for disc brakes creates a stiffer ride? Perhaps this bike was designed to be stiffer so that it would flex less fully loaded, so the tube profiles are larger than usual. As you know Ritchey bikes are made in Taiwan, but perhaps the level of quality control and custom tubing spec's raise the price on such design specifications. Richey's are also not meant to carry loads, except for perhaps the Ascent, which is now discontinued. I fortunately have one and although the frame is strong to carry a full load, it still has a great feel.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Yeah. Not sure. Lots of factors involved. The Ritchey frames are great. I think the bikes we had in mind were more like the ones put out by Surly. They’re definitely priced on a different level and I think the feel of the bikes reflects that.

[@rmanalan]

Sounds very similar to the Black Mountain Cycles Road+

[@velocelt]

I just have to ask - I've always been puzzled by your pronunciation of Velo Orange. Among my circle of cycling friends and in the various bike shops I've been in and worked at, everyone I know has just called it Velo Orange ("orange" like the fruit), versus the sort of French-accented pronunciation of "O-rahnj" that you use. I tried searching the Googs to see if it was something that the folks at Velo Orange promoted themselves, but I couldn't find anything. I'm throwing out a wild guess here, but since so many "supple cycling" things have their names rooted in the French language, eg. campeur, decaleur, randonneur, that maybe VO intends their name to have that sort of flavor as well? Maybe it's one of those things like the Shimano Alfine hub. Most people I know pronounce it "Al-feen," while if you don't know better, apparently Shimano actually says it's supposed to be pronounced "Al-fee-nay." I've never known anyone to say it that way however. Anyway, I've been curious for a long time and wondered if you'd gotten the French-sounding pronunciation directly from the folks at VO and maybe the rest of us heathens have been saying it wrong all along.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

It’s just for giggles. I have a friend that pronounced it that way and decided to take on that pronunciation.

[@velocelt]

@@PathLessPedaledTV - Got it! So good to know that as the Brits would say, "You're takin' the piss." I have a friend who works at another shop and they deliberately mispronounce all kinds of bike-related brands. The Specialized S-Works is "Sworx," anything "Race Face" is "Rache-Fache," "Motobecane" is "Moto-bacon," etc.

[@elizabethenlow4807]

Since velo is french (for bicycle) and orange is French (for orange) it kind of makes sense to me you would pronounce both with a French accent. Non?

[@solarheat9016]

It is 100% Velo-O rah nge pronounced with stopped up sinuses. Their 29er is not the Pilot but rather the Pee Oh Lay.

[@tomordr]

Nice video. Great personal explanation as always. Thanks! Did I see you took the Jones bar off the elMariachi in the background? Didn’t work out?

[@franklynwu]

If you want to not bring two headset wrenches when traveling, you can go Rinko (headset)!

[@jonathanventura7435]

Hey!!! Any thoughts on the VO piolet???!!! Thanks for all the great videos.

[@fmc6338]

always liked velo orange

[@michaelcarey3600]

What is the exact wheelset that you went with? I’m thinking of going with something similar.

[@jackmannsmd]

Nice review as always!

[@theashrook6129]

Speaking of wheel sets. I’m actually trying to learn more about wheels and how to increase their weight capacity. Seems like some steel frames can hold a significant amount of weight but where things fail is more in the wheels and tires in the weight capacity area. Right now I’m riding a Worksman Cycles commuter bike that’s a little too tall for me but it was the best one I found for my rider weight range. but I can’t help but think a steel frame (maybe vintage) with the right wheels and tires is possible and I can have a regular-ish better fitting bike.

[@velocelt]

If you've got wheel issues and I'm assuming you're a big (heavy), guy frame material is not that big of a concern in terms of weight capacity. If you're breaking lots of spokes or something like that, it usually has more to do with poorly-built wheels, or wheels with a spoke count too low for the weight/stress being put onto them. A 36 spoke wheel that is properly tensioned will hold hundreds of pounds. Lots of bikes get speced with machine-built wheels that aren't properly tensioned and relieved once they've been built and so are more likely to fail over time. Also, trying to avoid things like hitting potholes and curbs will help your wheels last longer. You can't always do it, sometimes those potholes sneak up on you, but the less nasty stuff you hit at speed the better your wheels will hold up, especially if you carry a lot of weight in cargo or rider.

[@nesutoneko]

I don't think the vertical handlebar compliance you speak of on the original set up of this bike is inherent to quill stems - I think its the VO steel stem. I have one on my touring bike and it's disconcertingly flexy. I'm actually concerned I'm going to break it and will likely swap it out before my next tour. I have Nitto NP quill stems on two other bikes and they are rock solid, no flex.

[@vautrain]

I think quill stems vary somewhat, but the VO is almost certainly not the only flexy one out there. Flex is also a function of quill stem height, obviously the more you pull out of the steerer tube, the flexier it's going to be, because physics.

[@nesutoneko]

@@vautrain "Flex is also a function of quill stem height, obviously the more you pull out of the steerer tube, the flexier it's going to be, because physics" True but I will add that in the 15 or so quill stems I've used over the years, the VO is by FAR the flexiest (it's actually the only one I've used with obviously noticeable flex, regardless of stem height). It is also the only steel quill I've used, the rest have been aluminum.

[@allrounderbicycle7193]

I can second the observation. I had one that suspiciously could not be lowered despite the steerer being sufficiently long. Turns out the quill had bent. I bent it back in a vice and was able to lower it easily.

[@joseareland]

Interesting notes! waiting for 51 size to get back in stock.

[@tmvollmer43]

me too!

[@velo_orange]

Hey Jose, they've just come in!

[@joseareland]

@@velo_orange Thanks for the heads up! I'll make my part as soon as possible.

[@nathanbarlow3758]

@jose, how tall are you and how did the 51 fit you? Thanks!

[@BPlus-oz7cm]

Russ, can you review a wheelset by Hunt. It seems they're a great value and getting good reviews.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Will try. Anyone one in particular?

[@scu83]

@@PathLessPedaledTV The MASON X HUNT 650B ADVENTURE SPORT DISC looks like great value on paper, and the size is on-brand for you.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

OK. pinged them about it.

[@mattyporker]

@@scu83 I have been riding these wheels on the Polyvalent - no complaints!

[@DarthJabba504]

Path Less Pedaled How about November Bicycles GX24 650b wheels with Aivee hubs? Very light and great price for their spec.

[@DarthJabba504]

Soma Randonneur is 650b and designed per Boulder Cycles / Rene Herse team, who says it gets fairly close to their bikes. Not disc brake and only 42mm tire clearance tho...

[@NFenchak1]

I rode one of those Somas for a minute. It was a nice bike, but I sold it to build up a Rawland Ravn, which has similar geometry, but is thoroughly modern in terms of axles, headsets, and brakes.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Ravn is a sweet bike.

[@raketeros221]

Hi Russ, I hope you can help me out. Planning to buy a Polyvalent. Which should I get Small or Medium. I am 5'7 with a 29.5 inches inseam. I want to be comfortable on a bike.

[@gwgorham]

Other than 650B wheels (if needed) are there standard modifications you make to a bike? Getting a 650B salsa jman (claris) and was wondering

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

It's available as "frame only" so every component choice is going to be unique. I do like the quill to threadless stem adaptor for easy handlebar changes and ability to run modern bars.

[@craigwilson118]

I usually put on my preferred width bars and saddle. Tyres and brake pads also usually get swapped to my preferences. Sometimes I tidy up the cable lengths. Most of that can wait until the parts need replaced and just depends on preference. Cable rub-frame protectors are a good idea though to put on from new - they can be little clear stickers or rubber bumpers that go around the cable at rub points. Fenders and lights where needed. Enjoy the new bike!

[@fancytyme]

Nice GSC bottle.

[@chrisf4lc0n]

If Velo Orange makes the dropouts Rohloff compatible I may give it a go...

[@jackmannsmd]

Russ, How does the polyvalent's ride compare to something the rivendell atlantis (or any of their all rounders)? I know their is a difference of disc vs calipers, but I don't care either way about the brakes but I hear that rivendells tubing is so good it is close to going custom.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Haven’t ridden a Riv except the Clem. I think the Atlantis would have better tubing but the geo is pretty different with more of an emphasis on stability and touring.

[@tbdba4217]

How would you compare this to the 650b Straggler. I am currently riding a 1989 Trek 420 converted to 650b.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

650b straggler has more pep but less clearances.

[@dmitryliashko78]

I dont know if 67mm BB drop of a Polyvalent frameset and 70 mm BB drop of a Piolet frame really makes a difference? They suggesting 650x47 or 26x2,3 max tire sizes for a Polyvalent frame, what gives us 272mm and 271mm of a BB height. For a Piolet frame there are 29x2,4 or 27,5x3 max tires, so this is 302mm or 298mm. And they have a special geometry for small sizes, with 26x2,4 max tires with 40mm BB drop and 300,5mm BB height. Or this is just because Piolet is supposed to be more like an off-road bike, while Polyvalent is just all-rounder, capable, but not designed for off-road use? Anyway, this is better approach compare to lets say Kona Rove ST. For 2019 model, they changed the wheels from 700 to 650, wich is good. But with exactly the same geometry, so a BB height reduced to 265mm, while 2018 model had 275mm, even with skinny 700x36 tires.

[@craigwilson118]

The Piolet is definitely more of a rigid MTB so the higher BB is for obstacle clearance while sacrificing planted high-speed cornering which it will not see much of. I've read (probably in Bicycle Quarterly) that many of the 650b randonneur bikes are designed around a sweet spot BB height of 265-270mm, which matches the 2019 Kona, and the Polyvalent would fall into this zone if run on 650x42mm.. they may have designed it around this so it isn't too low if someone runs smaller tyres, but doesn't rise too high with the bigger rubber. My own CX bike is sitting at 285mm on 700x38mm... great for pedalling through corners but not confidence inspiring at speed. My girlfriend's bike has a 270mm BB height and it whips into corners much better. Hopefully some of that gives you more data to work from!

[@dmitryliashko78]

@@craigwilson118 thanks! I didn get that (obvious) cornering thing initially. So, looks like 265-270mm is a sweet spot for almost any bike (if not a cross bike or mtb). My racey road bike also has 266-269mm of a BB height depending on 25mm or 28mm tires.

[@PsychoGirlMagnet1216]

sweet.

[@tmvollmer43]

thanks for another video of this machine. what's your frame size on this one?

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

I believe it was the smallest size they offer.

[@sethm.5666]

Which enve rim's are those? Looking forward to the carbon wheel review.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Enve 27s I believe.

[@Sebastian-my6xd]

Do you have your front tire not mounted in rotational direction? You could have gained about 1 Watt and far more better breaking performance (aka longer go fast)! Maybe you could have come back from california about 10seconds earlier and we could have seen the video about 10 seconds earlier!

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

I like to add more watts for resistance training.

[@raketeros221]

How long is that stem?

[@sickunit2096]

Russ Im curious why you did not consider the shockstop stem for your trip

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

There’s a lot of flex already with the inch threaded fork.

[@wanderingsailor5503]

Is that a fizik saddle?

[@wmlarch]

dude, that headset...its so 1999!

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Goes well with my Walkman.

[@wmlarch]

@@david78212 yeah, I'm old...Im just saying that was pretty much the end of the road for threaded headsets. And even with the tools, you have to adjust it just right and lock it down...not too tight but not too loose...hard too keep up the skills when you don't do it regularly.

[@miker6270]

I’ve only ever owned 1 bike that didn’t have a quill stem. I didn’t buy it either, got it in a trade. Haha i like quill stems better but probably just because I’m used to them. Ya I’m old too (40).

[@tinyadventuresbybike9796]

hi, have you done a review on the elemnt bolt as a touring/bikepacking gps?

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Haven’t yet but on the list.

[@joshuabrown5057]

I thought this bike does take multi wheel sizes

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Sure. 26 x 2.3.

[@jasoncarroll8182]

I run tubeless 26" Compass Rat Trap Pass tires on my Poly. Bouncy, nimble, fun.

[@bengt_axle]

I see it has disk brakes, but are those QR's or are they thru axles?

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

QRs.

[@chillzonejawn]

Quick release on wrong side of front wheel.

[@garyyee9185]

Any chance comparing this to the SOMA Rando bike

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Possibly. Going to review the Wolverine first.

[@ryangregorysmith168]

Hi my name's Ryan are there any good beginner bike's for about $300. Novice rider I guess. Looking to haul camping gear.

[@Korina42]

Keep a look out on CraigsList for a 1990's mountain bike, one with solid forks. A popular one is the Trek Multitrack; it'll probably need some cleaning, and likely replace tires and tubes, maybe chain, and after that, you'll have a great touring bike for cheap.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

There aren't a lot of great NEW bikes in that price range that would be awesome for bike touring. As suggested, tracking down a 90s rigid mountain bike would be an awesome option. It will have the gearing to go touring.

[@ryangregorysmith168]

@@Korina42 thanks Korina I will look for a 90's bike.

[@arminhess1512]

I don't like these short steering tubes. Seems to be an american design, like Surly, to put a lot of spacers under the stem (or pull the stem out of the steering tube). The short steering tube is stiff and these towers are the opposite. And it looks ridiculous.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

It’s a small size frame. Larger sizes are longer. I am cursed with being short. Sorry. What do you expect? A foot long head tube on a size 49?

[@arminhess1512]

if I refer to Surly for example they always look the same in bigger sizes, too. But a 40-50 mm longer headtube and some sloping would be technically better - stiffness in the front and flexibility in the back.

[@peppermintp2610]

Hmmmm....vertical compliance?

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Basically a little bouncy.

[@owltune5496]

Two weeks is long term?

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

I've had it since last fall.

[@damienm8416]

What put me off the polyvalent was that fugly front end.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Ha. That was my favorite part about it.