Review: Velo-Orange Polyvalent

[@hagri777]

Thank you, great review as always. One suggestion - I am personally sold on 650bx50mm+ tires (up to 60), specifically Schwalbe G-Ones. But it is hard to guess if they would fit the frame and if there is space for fenders. Another situation could be when bike maker specs their frame for say 650bx42 and people may be curious if 650bx47 would fit, etc. So it would be helpful if you can post actual tire width on your test bike and may be do a close up of clearance at fork, chain and seat stays. No liability as you would not be saying what do you think would fit - just posting the numbers and let people draw their own conclusion. If you can measure actual space on the frame where tire will be or existing clearance numbers - even better.

[@JD-tm6mx]

Would love to hear an interview with the folks behind Velo Orange on #PLPtalks, always wondered about their ethos and how they got started. Nice review!

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Good idea!

[@Owwliv]

Yes! Please interview the current owners of VO! That would be super neat to get an Idea of who Igor is!

[@chrislang8553]

Jake Dean Pedalshift does have a recent podcast interview with one of the current owners and their new bike models.

[@ericfreef]

@@chrislang8553 link for this? trying to find it and haven't been able to yet

[@FriendlyFarmMachineryToolCpBel]

J D, The originator of Velo Orange was a civil engineer who liked to bike! He sold the company to one of his employees a couple of years ago or last year, I can't remember. Anyway, the outsource parts and components to a Taiwanese machine shop who puts their label on things. Everything that I have purchased from them has been first rate! They definitely have a French theme about them and the cycles that they target. As a Peugeot PX-10 owner it was great to get my old racing bike back into shape. In fact, better than new. Their sealed bottom bracket is tops (French threads) and their crankset is pretty and performs well. Note: I think 48 tooth is the biggest chain ring they offer, but it is on a standard 110 mm BCD. Their hubs, brakes, etc. are all first rate with good bearings! Go their website and they have a blog. Just google Velo Orange.

[@adamb7426]

Quill stems making a comeback?? After 30yrs on the same bike I'll be in style again!! Excellent!! Great job Russ keep it up.

[@Henrywildeberry]

Nice review, Russ! You made a great point about the added suspension of the quill stem, another benefit not often noted. I was also interested in your perspective on the trail. Perhaps the trail is set on the higher end of what is considered "low" in order to allow some riders to choose smaller than the maximum sized tires?

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

I ran it through trail calc and the mechanical trail is 40, so supposedly par with the Masi. But on the phone with them, the way they described it is that it isn't a true low trail bike. So maybe relative to something in the 30s? Not too sure. It is lower than most of the bikes I've ridden, but probably not as low as they get. Relative to the Masi it felt "normal". I thought the handling on the Masi was more noticeable. I had assumed from riding the bike that the trail was probably in the 60s.

[@alanjohnson8396]

Russ. It is such a pleasure going back and enjoying these older reviews especially considering I’m somewhat new to cycling and was totally unaware of many of the smaller companies.

[@franklinmiller2772]

I ride a Velo Orange Pass Hunter with cantilever brakes. It is a great riding bike. The Crust Romanceur is another modern bike with a quill stem that rides great.

[@rapierlynx]

I have a P.H. canti, too. The medium trail front end was a bit twitchy with 28mm tires, but it settled down nicely with 32mm Gravel Kings and a Topeak Conpact bar bag.

[@jeffandersen6233]

Im watching these older videos again as i try to focus on a bike to buy other than cookie cutter brands. I'm drawn more to bikes like the Polyvalent as Im reminded of bikes from the 70s and 80s that ive had. Just good all around rides but with modern touches like brazed cable routing, indexing, good brakes, steel frames and quill stems. Just need a quill with a face plate like VO but always seems out of stock. Thanks for your reviews and dedication to showing alternatives.

[@robbykills]

I built up a Pass Hunter Disc with 650B wheels, dynamo hub, and a rando bag on the front back in 2016. It's a wonderful riding bike for sure!

[@rapierlynx]

How did you get the 650 to work in the back? I didn't think that frame had enough clearance between the chain stays.

[@grandad1982]

Can you give us a tour of you "bike cave"?

[@uniquenamegoeshere2263]

Great review. I have been curious about Velo Orange bikes. I’ve bought parts from them. Quill stems are awesome. I have a tall quill stem on a very old touring bike, it rides great on gravel.

[@kimrice394]

A lot of companies are overbuilding front ends now as customers are buying based on key spec words. I’m with Ritchey on the head tube not being tapered and ultra stiff on gravel bikes. I went from carbon to steel for compliance!!!

[@ericfreef]

coming from the video where Russ scored all the bikes he reviewed this year and this one is tied for second in the "supple score"... !!! I do love my VO Campeur-which, interestingly, was designed in 2011-2012 as a 700c version of the original Polyvalent design (we're on version four now, I believe, while the Campeur is just as it was introduced in 2012)-but dang, does this thing look tasty.

[@767bob]

I have two bikes from Velo Orange, a 2010 Rando bike and a 2015 Campeur.... I bought both frames new and I still own them. My Rando bike is my go to bike on most of the brevets that I ride, from 100k up to 1500k. It is set up with 700c x 28mm tires, it is a fast bike and yes it planes! My Campeur is an excellent touring bike but I have also used it on 100k to 250k brevets, excellent on my commutes to work, it is also great on trails. Able to ride with wider tires makes it a great all rounder.

[@ericfreef]

I have a Campeur too and while all of these reviews+the 650b mania these days do have me pining for a shiny new bike, the Campeur is just too good an all-rounder for me to justify the $$

[@767bob]

@@ericfreef my Campeur is set up with 26" wheels, I also have a Trek 950 a very old mountain bike setup with 26 inch wheels, fenders and drop bars and that bike is an awesome bike. This bike is like my Campeur but can take wider tires...Both bikes are my favorites for riding in any types of roads. They are both true touring bikes and gravel bikes....

[@irondistance4313]

On your VO rando, have you ever gone with a wider tire 32 and possible above. I’m thinking about getting a used one and wondered how wide you can go with the VO fenders installed I know they say max 30mm but sometimes you can flex up a bit. I would love to run 35 GP all seasons on it

[@767bob]

@@irondistance4313 on my Rando frame, I have also used the 32mm Panaracer's Pasella tires with fenders on. On rims that are 19mm wide, the tires actual width are 30mm on 80psi. Anything wider, the fenders should be removed. Keep in mind, this Rando frame is their first version, it is a lugged frame. The next version (the Passhunter) the frame was welded and it can accommodate wider tires.

[@irondistance4313]

@@767bob the frame I’m picking up is the original blueish/purple with orange logos. Im excited hope it works out. I’ve cycled for 20 years, and just a couple of months ago was the first I ever heard of Randonneuring, can’t wait to try it out. Just like when I did my first 70.3 and bought a triathlon bike, you have to have a specialized bike for the discipline

[@ovash1]

My AWOL WEIGHS 31 POUNDS. 28 actually sounds light. I have 5 bikes with quill stems and they are a pain. To change handle bars or brake levers is a lot of werk. To change the length of the stem is a lot of werk and you have to buy another quill. Then there are the, "quills of death.", and those have to be replaced. I wouldn't purposely buy a bike with a quill stem, but that Polyvalent bike, and the quill look awesome.

[@adhunt1]

I just want to echo many of the sentiments already expressed: This is a good review! VO is great and a PLPtalks with them would be fantastic; the Rat Trap Pass tires would be great on here! Quill stems are the best for anything but extreme mountain biking; VO's bike design is more mature than Masi's; and forget the haters! I do think, fwiw, that lending so much force to weight in your reviews is mostly a distraction. A few pounds here or there for the things that matter in our kinds of bikes amount to an extra water bottle or two. Sure that can't make much of a difference. Perhaps what you're seeing now is that bike design, rather than weight en se, is what determines the handling and ride. My complete Raleigh Competition 650b conversion with demi-porteur rack, full alloy fenders, Brooks steel-railed saddle, dynamo system, etc weights 27lbs. But it's the Reynolds 531 frame that gives me the quick ride. Anyway, thanks again!

[@fromann09]

I ride a 2016 Velo Orange Piolet. It is also sold only as a frame and fork. Mine is set up with dirt drops, disc brakes, SRAM GX 1x10 drivetrain, and 29x2.0 Schwalbe Marathons. It is an amazing bike; it's very stable and comfortable, but I can keep up if someone tries to drop the group too. Please do more reviews on VO bikes!

[@allrounderbicycle7193]

Hi Russ, great review! I just wanted to share my experience with regards to the handling. I've built three 58cm frames and loved the handling on all, but then I decided to build up a 54cm for myself. My initial impression was it felt like a different model. The 58cm was fun, lively, dipped in and out corners predictably, it just felt fun. Riding the 54, I couldn't quite achieve the same care-free feeling. It seemed to fall into the turn more, I had to think about it, countersteer a little more when cornering. I finally was able to get it to feel a little better by increasing the tire pressure by 5psi, but it lost a little of it's cush. I tried the Rat Trap Pass tires to (26"x2.3) hoping for a change for the better. I'm not sure it handles much better but I found 25psi works pretty good for me at 160lbs. Anyway, I've always found it interesting how geometry changes are made from size to size, and despite efforts to maintain similar ride characteritics, they often feel like different models. Not to say I don't like the 54, but I do think I like how the 58 handles better.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

That's an interesting observation. I'm wonder if it doesn't have to do with the fork. I think most bike brands use the same rake regardless of size and it seems like they tend to be optimized for larger sizes and smaller sizes get screwed.

[@allrounderbicycle7193]

Path Less Pedaled I’m pretty sure that’s it. I once spoke to Rob from Ocean Air Cycles, who introduced me to the concept of pneumatic trail, and as I understood it, lowering tire pressure makes the bike handle as if it has more trail. I don’t know how you calculate fork rake for that but it seems to be a more noticeable variable as tires get bigger and squishier.

[@stroudnick]

I remember building up an old Univega 700c conversion and slapping a threadless headset/stem on it, other than dealing with rim brakes, I really miss this bike just because if it’s compliance. As a old roady/mbr, say what you will, but throw on some sliding thru axles and make it di2 compatible; it’d sell out. For the winter we could have a commuter (ss) and the summers an all out gravel/touring/fun bike. I’m dreaming.

[@OldBumOnABike]

Great looking bike. Just love the stem.

[@ryanm.9197]

Long live the quill stem!

[@123epn]

Nice review. I like the frame geometry.

[@brianluck84]

I kind of live in the 80s. Days I'm feeling fresh I might creep closer to the 90s and days I'm feeling taxed I might hang out in the 70s but by large mid 80s is my all day rpm.

[@saintless]

I'd run quill stems in a heartbeat if not for the more limited selection of handlebars.. on a similar note, the dwindling availability of better quality 26" tires is the only reason I'd jump to 650b from 26". It really does feel like forced obsolescence.

[@ralfgerard3]

Hope you can review veloci bikes too

[@davidbarrett4586]

Love a lively rear end.

[@cd3990]

Hi Russ, thanks for doing these reviews. They have been a lot of help especially I can't explore different bikes that much. Currently have a custom bike close to the geometry of a Surly Straggler. Found it difficult though using a front load as it feels I exert more effort steering the bike. Would you recommend the VO Polyvalent for front loading and how does this compare to the Surly Pack Rat? I'll use the bike mainly for commuting and light touring and wanted to have a front load instead.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Haven’t put a ton of weight on the front of the VO yet. Will do that in a few weeks. With the little I’ve done, I think the Packrat handles a heavy front load better. Handling remains surprisingly light.

[@cd3990]

@@PathLessPedaledTV cool! Sounds about right. How about better without any load? I remember you mentioned that the Pack Rat had a different feel unloaded. How would you compare to the VO? Looking forward to your next ride with the VO and hopefully a video!

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

VO is a pretty neutral ride unloaded. Packrat has a really responsive front unloaded. Similar to how a Brompton feels like with and without a front bag.

[@cd3990]

@@PathLessPedaledTV thanks! That helped a lot. Appreciate the response Russ. More power to you channel!

[@markroy5555]

Hey Russ. Great review, as usual. How was shifting with that Velo Orange crankset. What front derailleur did you use? Love what you're doing with Path Less Pedaled. You are The Man....but not the bad "The Man".

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Thanks. Shifting was great. No probs. Front DR is a 105.

[@sergiografbike]

Another Good Review!!. Did you tested the Specialzed Sequoia?

[@briangallegos5268]

Hello! Have you considered trying the Kona Robe NRB or Framed Baja Carbon or Ridley Xtrail Adventure or Surly Straggler? They all use 650b wheels and can serve as options if at any time you are looking for a new bike to do a review.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Surly Straggler is in the queue. We don’t review Kona bikes.

[@briangallegos5268]

excellent, the Straggler is the one that interests me :D

[@macmurfy2jka]

+Path Less Pedaled why don’t you guys review Kona bikes?

[@mistermatsuda]

Love the bikes you've chosen to review but most all reviews have bags on them. Not everyone rides with bags on their bikes. I can't get a good look at this one because of it.

[@forresthendricks6818]

Great video Russ! I like the idea of just getting the frame since then you can customize and/or source secondhand the rest of the parts. What do we know about the steel though? Is it the same cromoly as Surly or something higher grade?

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Forrest Hendricks yes, from what I understand it is similar. Nothing super fancy, not super light or crazy butting.

[@fancytyme]

Quill stems forever, IMO.

[@davidgaible7906]

Woah, just noticed that you're carrying bear spray in some of the videos. Hope you never have to use it.

[@ks-pg5sh]

Hey Russ. Looks like this was a fun one to ride. Any chance you were running tubeless on VO?

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

No. Rims weren’t tubeless ready.

[@egha2720]

I’m glad find your channel 🤘🏼

[@kevinluckey5781]

Hey Russ, just checked velo's web site and they advertise this as a low trail frame set.

[@jasoncarroll8182]

Was thinking the same thing. What do I believe?

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Ran it through trail calc and it is indeed low trail at 40. Similar to the Masi, but for me was less noticeable than the Masi. Go figure. It did handle a front load well tho.

[@fmc6338]

Nice bike!!

[@jgood497]

I''m confused, how does the gearing factor into the review when it's only sold as a frame set?

[@js7851]

Why would you say steel is bad?

[@mantid138]

Which lowrider rack did you put on this? Is that a Tubus?

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Tara.

[@joannekeefe426]

Then you have found your people! Thats so funny!

[@j.d.howell7426]

Nice review. I'm loving mine with a similar build. I think the chainrings on that VO crankset are 46/30, not 40/28, but with an 11-34 shimano cassette, it was plenty for D2R2 last weekend. Regarding fenders/tire size, I'm running the same WTB Horizon 47 on Velocity Cliffhangers (a wide rim) with VO wavy 58 fenders, and the clearance is as tight as I would go, but they fit (Simworks Honjo 58 did not). Actually going to go down to Gravelking 42's because my 200k is abysmally slow, we'll see if that helps. If you are looking for a gravel/rando/tourer but not quite ready to shell out for Rivendell or Romanceur lugs, this is the beast for you. Photos here if you are interested: instagram.com/calcutec.s_sinsigns/

[@AK-ic1yj]

Is that a can of bear spray you got in the feed bag there? NICE!! I want to do this as well but mine won't be bear spray but more like car-driving-phone-zombie-road-rager spray :) At the moment I carry my u-lock in my waistband because it's practical but also to utilize like brass knuckles if the need arises when some road raging auto idiot wants to tango :D

[@AK-ic1yj]

How did you like those Byways? Better than Compass Switchback Hills? Or the Horizons?

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Par with the Horizons. Slightly more grip. The Compass SBH are more supple IMO. I find that I have to let out a little more air in the Horizon/Byways to get a similar feel in the Compass. Should do a direct comparison video at some point.

[@AK-ic1yj]

Path Less Pedaled Direct comparison video.... YES PLEASE! SWEET!! 😁😁

[@AK-ic1yj]

Would you say the Compass SBH are better all around than the WTB Horizons, Byways, or Gravelking slicks?

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

In terms of suppleness, Yes. In terms of grip on dirt, no.

[@AK-ic1yj]

Ummmmm suppleness.... I LIKE. But the SBH has less dirt grip then the Horizons or Gravelking slicks?

[@colbito]

Is this a 51 or 54?

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

This is a 51.

[@miker6270]

Path Less Pedaled how tall are you? I’ve been trying to decide between their 51 and 54. My current bike seems to be in the middle.

[@meadows408]

Thanks for the review but please, stand still! All the arm waving gave me vertigo.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Ha. I have a hard time getting words out of my mouth hole if I stand still :)

[@xanadux534]

Haha, I thought there was something wrong with me. Glad I'm not alone. I solved the issue by placing a piece of paper to the lower half of the screen. No offense! :)

[@sammyseagull]

the constant arm waving detracts from the watchability

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Trying to stop. It’s hard for me. My voice gets quiet when I can’t move.

[@ansismaleckis1296]

Reviews by Path Less Pedaled are not independent. They would be independent only if Path Less Pedaled were buying bikes with their own money. Since Path Less Pedaled is loaning bikes from manufactures this channel is obliged to give positive or at least "positivish" reviews. If Path Less Pedaled started dishing out negative reviews manufactures would simply stop giving bikes for review and this channel would lose most of its content. Even if money is not exchanging hands this is still an infomercial and should be taken with a grain of salt.

[@ansismaleckis1296]

I am not attacking you personally so you should not take offense. By your own admission you try to do 4 vids a week and some videos take up to 20 hours to make. I would guess that you are spending at least 40 hours a week doing YT. That is a serious commitment. I will take the liberty to assume that you are not doing this just for the love for the art but trying to make this into full-time gig that will generate sufficient income. There is nothing wrong with this and I applaud your effort. However, your emphasizing of being completely independent is a little dishonest. Velo-Orange did not give you the bike because they really like your channel. They gave you the bike because they anticipate that your review will increase their sales. Bloggers who do product reviews for a living can never stay impartial and objective. Adsense will never generate you a lot of income because #supplelife is a niche market with a very limited base of interested people. For the same reason donations are not gonna be a big source of income either. This means that you are bound to be "dependent" on the industry.

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

We've been blogging and creating content (print and digital) around bikes for a decade and have made a simple living out of it without ever running a bike brand ad. In that time this is what I know: 1) there are a limited number of brands that have resources and willingness to advertise 2) there are an infinite amount of bloggers and creators competing for limited ad dollars. Our goal, which is a huge risk and which I am busting ass for, is to grow the community and have them support what they love. It's as simple as that. The supple life is indeed a niche market, but it's growing and we are fortunate to have some pretty awesome supporters. I'm a pretty straight shooter. I know we are only as good as our word. It might be hard for you to believe, but it's really that simple.

[@gsrossco]

anis maleckis, your statement indicates that you haven't watched many of Russ's reviews. Before you throw out a statement like that at least do your homework. What satisfaction do you get from saying something that's factually incorrect?

[@MnBicycleCommuter]

ansis maleckis Exactly what I always think when I hear these are independent reviews. For example, the Race Director for Trans-Iowa Gravel race writes a daily blog called Guitar Ted. He does written reviews on gravel bikes, gravel tires, etc. He rarely reviews anything given to him by a bike brand. He makes a point to say he bought items he’s reviewing with his own money. He understands it comprises the integrity of the review to accept any favors or schwag directly from the brand. Russ does ok reviews, but they aren’t independent. Specially when he reviews anything from Salsa.

[@ryanm.9197]

Not sure I buy that purchasing equipment is going to automatically divorce oneself from bias. People naturally have positive opinions on equipment that they have purchased and possibly use regularly which will bias any review unless checked. But the reality is that if one is loaned a bike or purchases a bike for review, the individual reviewer has a responsibility to be honest, understand bias exists, and review the item without favoritism, which I think PLP does very well.