Long Tube vs Short Tube Headers | The Technical Differences

A lot of people know that long tube headers generally make more power than short-tube headers, but not many people talk about the technical reasons for that and when you may consider one vs the other. In this video, Mike does!
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[@PissDrunxVato]

Love how he has a smile the whole time, my guy is genuinely passionate about performance, very thorough now time to order some long tubes!

[@bri-manhunter2654]

Love it, lol. He’s so chill

[@tylercox8819]

Or dude got baked right before filming 🤣

[@2ndsspz]

he seems very happy, he should have his own tv show instead of some who have 😞

[@deandreissadasf460]

@@tylercox8819 i be watching him and i think the same thing

[@steamdriver6964]

That's just the way he looks He always looks like he's smiling it's just his features

[@crash299]

If we had more teachers like this guy the world would be a way cooler place. Love his passion and his ability to articulate a complex subject in a way that everyone can understand!

[@motoiq]

Thank you!

[@OFFICIALMightyMac]

It is coming!

[@davidmitchell4268]

I agree, and very thankful for KZbin so his knowledge is readily available worldwide 👌

[@badomen8779]

I totally agree. His ability to articulate difficult physical scince in a way that most porple with a brain bigger than a peanut could understand is phenomenal. I'm not a scientist, but my father was a Chemistry teacher so I've always had an interes in Physics and such. This guy is a great teacher and hopefully some more like-minded people have the same passion and charisma for different subjest, i.e Physics and motor vehicles. Thank you for your comment as it helped spark my brain to write this and have a great day.

[@isaacmtamou8070]

More kids would stay in school

[@al151]

As being a professional mechanical engineer and a car enthusiast i can listen to you all day long Sir! Thank you so much for the detailed explanations!

[@shermanelliott5730]

Great way to deliver the message teacher, 🙌

[@user-zn4tq6ib6r]

I absolutely love it when these educated folks who more than likely owe that TA for decades grovel and throw out their professions like I am an engineer this engineer that. Anyone who produces anything even by putting a pencil to paper are in fact engineering. Have a good day. This presenter is very good so I am not shitting on the vid just these self absorbed supposedly higher level of intelligence individuals who can measure their value in a chosen profession.

[@chriswillis9599]

As a Mechanical engineer with time in a ICE lab. This guy is nailing it. Great content.

[@R0cketRed]

I could listen to you get real technical all day. I really wanted to hear the equation for determining the length of the run to get perfect wave reflection timed with your motor. Please go into depth on all of this. Personally I don't care how long the video is I just want to learn more. The part where you said the return wave helping to push the fresh air and fuel back into the cylinder just made me light up with joy. Great video, I'd say you can go into as much depth as you want! Let's get nerdy with more power!

[@n8thenetninja188]

@@cannaroe1213 To quote "The Princess Bride", "yes, you're very smart. Shut up!"

[@cannaroe1213]

​@@n8thenetninja188 Heheh, if I was smart i'd have a job, and no time to write comments on KZbin :P

[@Errol.C-nz]

seek out a book.. 4-stroke performance tuning, David Vizard, its all in their.. dont be fooled into thinking its straight forward though as David emphsizes the formulas are only a starting point.. there are a lot of other engine features that affect whether header lengths should be shorter or longer than equation timing length would suggest... also header collector SHOULDN'T be "blended".. header ends at the collector MUST be squared ended (right angle cut) to created a sudden pressure release & create a stronger reversion pulse back up the header.. cross over pipes for cross plane cranks are part of that inversion pulse effect too.. as is header diameter.. dont go bigger than the formulas dictate.. all points missed in this vlog.. theres still a LOT of art (educated guessing) in the science/engineering

[@Errol.C-nz]

@@n8thenetninja188 its not that hes smart.. its just a level of "understanding" from studying the stuff smart people have already done for.. we've just got to read it.. its all oit there easier than ever to find

[@R0cketRed]

@@Errol.C-nz Interesting I'll check it out. It's still nice seeing a life time builder explaining how it works with examples, I feel like books with equations just gets boring unless your using it to custom build a header at that moment.

[@Trasher_Garage]

Mike is probably one of the most intelligent car guys.. I love hearing what he has to say, very informative.

[@Better_Car_Control]

Great overview Mike! Just ordered my long tubes for my built LS6 SBE. This should complement my massaged heads, fast intake manifold, and big cam

[@guttedxx]

I serious watch this channel because of this guy. He always looks so happy, and explains things in a clear and easy way to understand. @12:06 made me LOL. Its like when you have your customer service voice on and then you break character for one second.

[@mattsmallshot]

Hi, your video popped up in my feed and I find it very informative. Its good to see videos that actually explain why designs are evolving the way they are in the emission stand point, haven't seen a video that talked about it until now. Could you talk about equal, unequal length headers, 1-1 pipes? Keep up the good work

[@syrthdr09sybr34]

Really appreciate you guys including turbo applications into the conversation.

[@kevinw979]

My favorite thing other than the great info is the smile you have the entire video. It’s infectious! I can’t stop smiling now after two videos. Thanks for making these

[@kensutherland414]

Right on. Here in Australia we have always called headers (Extractors).

[@NotNow293]

Would you do a video comparing a 4-1 header vs a 4-2-1?

[@motoiq]

That's a good idea!

[@jakethesnake1503]

For the QR25DE lololololol eh

[@rizall3061]

I agree. Tri-y are so interesting.

[@bryceridesbikes]

person 1: I got four to one headers person 2: four two one headers are sick p1: no no no no, four TO one headers p2: that's one I'm saying four two one

[@davidgalea6113]

​@@motoiq Please do a tech talk on the pros/cons of getting valve lift from the cam lobe vs the rocker arm ratio.. which is better high ratio rocker arms with a low lift cam lobe or low ratio rocker arms with a high lift cam lobe...... lower lift cam lobe = less lifter travel and more rocker ratio= more valve stem side loading. those two facts are all I know about this topic..

[@1976ClassicCelica]

I have a 1976 Celica with a 302 V8 using shorty headers which I had to install in reverse. It was the only way to get it to work around the steering box and it looks pretty cool too. I had to use a remote oil filter but that's now easier to get at too.

[@bryanparsons7207]

I would listen to this man talk all day long about engines. Thank you sir. You would be an amazing teacher

[@robertsantiago3102]

Wow! These things were never explained to me while training to be an automotive technician. Thanks again.

[@n8thenetninja188]

I learned something in this video! I'm primarily of the NA, big overlap cam long tube world, and mostly understood that. I didn't know how tube length affected turbo efficiency. Very cool! I shall have to remember this if I ever build a turbo engine...

[@Chopped93VX]

I just found this channel, and I already love it so much. It’s so informative, especially for someone like me who has no formal automotive education but still loves his car and working on his car. When I get ready to build my custom exhaust you can be sure I will be coming back to this information! Great video, amazing info and quality.

[@seanmcd72]

Please never stop making these videos!

[@raphaelgarcia9453]

Great content! Love how you truly break down concepts that are usually misunderstood. Looking forward to more content!

[@motoiq]

Glad you like it, much of what you hear and see is wrong out there. I did this because all of the videos on the subject that I could find on youtube were either totally wrong or left out much of the details.

[@autodidact537]

@@motoiq Too bad you didn't mention ceramic coatings or wrapping headers & whether or not they help or not.

[@RandomlnternetGuy]

These videos are becoming some of my favourite out of all my subs.

[@konholio2]

This is one of the better channels that goes into deep tech dive and making it simple to understand. Great stuff, we need more content like this, not just the common mumbo jumbo from people that have no tech background.

[@aplong1911]

Incredible video!! Very informative and easy to absorb. Thank you much for taking the time to share.👍🏼👍🏼

[@blythewarland5459]

4 minute 11 seconds - I subscribed, that was long enough for me to work out you know your stuff

[@rstuff1605]

I remember in 09 or so Nascar had taken the thought of using the collector merge cone right of the top of my mind. But I have to say they sounded good with the wide open collector roar

[@sydneysmith8312]

THIS IS AMAZING, Ive watched it 5 times now there's so much information for someone looking to make their own performance exhaust

[@roddas26]

Learning from this guy is an absolute pleasure. Thank you from New Zealand 🇳🇿

[@michaelfried3123]

Probably the best explanation I've ever heard. I've used both, prefer the long tubes since I live in a state with no emissions snitches mandatory.

[@esthetics4512]

😂🙌💯

[@sosministriesrev1412]

Hi l am from Australia and l thought your presentation was great. I have a Falcon 2003 5.4 L quad cam V8 and run tuned length 4-1 headers, hi flow cats and performance exhaust. Cold air intake with performance tune and makes nearly 50 kilowatts - 67 horsepower at the rear wheels over standard. The tuned length headers made an enormous difference to power and torque over the entire rev range and not to mention the sound. Your explanation on this subject was awesome.

[@sosministriesrev1412]

@Jasen Vernor correct

[@maxgood42]

@Jasen Vernor often both because there is a misconception about the different measurements. I always start with torque/KN as HP can often only be found at maximum revs and kw is like a lab number and sometimes doesn’t reveal usable power.

[@naysay5812]

Only way to do an 8 down here is to buy yourself an SS 😉

[@maxgood42]

@@naysay5812 or a Stato

[@hanhan9064]

so,long or short?

[@jcdentonunatco]

This is some great in depth information! Love these deep dives into technical car stuff

[@jerkey]

This guy is incredible. What a treat. I watched him years ago when he broke down an EJ engine

[@lanedj801]

There are reasons why things are the way they are. Take note that the tuning of your parts for application are just as important. When you upgrade your intake or internals you should upgrade the exhaust. It’s all balance and efficiency.

[@jaynuck]

Mike, I’d love to see a similar video on intake manifold tech. It’s really easy to buy the shiny oversized aftermarket unit without understanding what that part is optimized for. In my younger days I built an all-motor B18B (LS) and after many, many hours of research into runner length and volume as well as plenum design and volume discovered that a B16A intake mani was perfect for my setup. Some fab work later, it was even better than I had calculated and hoped. On that same motor I had iterates did through testing 4-5 headers, and finally found a long-tube 4-2-1 design that performed well. Still though, the money and time wasted drove me to actually research the intake manifold - well worth it.

[@motoiq]

Intake manifolds are more tricky than headers.

[@aaronpritchett3467]

The finger killed me! I was not expecting that, and i thought it was hilarious! Nice touch!

[@Zaucey]

This is the first video I’ve seen on this channel. This guy seems like a real person/ car guy and not some robot or like he’s trying to sell me something lol. Rare these days… subscribed as soon as he opened his mouth

[@KenJohn777]

I really enjoy the effort put in your videos, explaining in the most simple and ease way, not rushing the info into the viewer. I think the video is focused more on gas car, but I was curious if the same principles apply to a diesel engine. Outside US there are a lot of tuning on diesel cars and I include myself in one of those. Thanks 👍

[@motoiq]

yes, it does, however, diesels have a lot less exhaust energy so it's not such a big difference.

[@V8Lenny]

Diesels usually have a turbo so you can forget all this length stuff.

[@thesetwohands6982]

thank you again for your knowledge on the technical side of headers. I really enjoy the technical side of your content most channels would just leave it at the long tube header provides more torque and the short tube header is better for high end hp and that is what we are left with. with is not great information to make a decision on building an engine for a specific purpose. thank you so much. I have used a lot of your content in the current build of my 1000 hp turbo ls farm truck/overland build. this type of information really helps this video just changed my exhaust direction in what I am going to build.

[@motoiq]

It's not that simple, a properly tuned long tube header will make more top end power than a short tube header as well.

[@philmebeer5660]

Thank you! That would have to be the best and clearest explanation between short and long headers!

[@byrosonline5876]

Thanks for the insights, now I understand why long headers make more power versus short headers. You have a great way of reducing complexity to explain things easily.

[@anthonylaw4729]

this was extremely useful info. Would love to see more of the C7 build.

[@motoiq]

You can see a lot more of it on MotoIQ.com motoiq.com/category/projects/chevrolet/corvette-stingray-c7-z51/

[@motoiq]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/aIOoZ3lviraWjNE

[@motoiq]

kzbin.info/aero/PLfzuVvTC1N8iSuL094OU1kuob5v5XJDR3

[@TaylorMadejdm1975]

LOL, this is the first video I've seen from this dude and he's pretty funny and knowledgeable and also pass da doobie!! 😊 LOL but in my experience shorty headers are just for people that have tight space constraints and I agree with you long tube headers always dominate especially when tuned for the RPM range ur lookin to be in, and the proper cam of course as you mentioned.. Creers Broheim 🍺

[@davidspangler7379]

Hands down the best explanation I've heard anywhere

[@johntsimbinos9987]

Nice explanation. I guess the other variation worth adding in the explanation would be how the Tri-Y 4-2-1 works & how its different compared to the 4-1 long tube.

[@coachwhitford7315]

I fabricated my own long tube 4-2-1 header for my 2010 Mazda 3, modified and tuned 2.5L. Also fabricated a merge collector with megaphone-reverse cone to try and take advantage of the big torque these engines produce compared to other higher rpm ricer engines. I went from a 15.9 sec 1/4m grocery getter to a 14.5 sec respectable little beast that out-pulls every ricer off the line.

[@patthomas9547]

You are incredibly smart! Thanks for a great explanation that even a novice gear head can understand.

[@motoiq]

Glad it was helpful!

[@y.b.-]

Gotta love Mike's breakdown of technical knowledge & experience, also his candid way to interject curse words as that b*tc* comment was gold

[@BornToKill780]

I could listen to this guy all day. He's just pure knowledge no cue cards no bs just straight facst

[@eduardosanchez7827]

I don’t remember if he talked about supercharged engines but I assume that SC engines will benefit a lot from long tube headers too. This guy really enjoys his work!

[@ellisjackson336]

Supercharged and probably rear mounted turbos too lol

[@MrJrakk]

Added "stainless" JBA long tubes to my 2UZ Tundra which required moving the cats back approx 16" as I had to clear the crossmember as well. CEL came on for a cat O2 code (inefficiency) and I assumed this was due to heat loss from the longer headers, as well as the additional distance to the cat converters. Added header wrap to the headers and wrapped the cat converters as well - check engine light has been out since then 👍

[@ImperatorCaesar22]

Why bother even keeping the cats? Inspections? I have a 4Runner and was running of doing something similar but I was just going to simulate the o2 sensors because in my state, no emissions inspection is required.

[@MrJrakk]

​@@ImperatorCaesar22because I don't want to create a situation where I get to stare at the check engine light forever. Then I would have to scan it every now and then to determine whether or not I have any new codes, as the light is on regardless. I'd sooner leave it as-is. I'm not using it as a race car and the cats have no negative effect in any situation, for me. Could potentially have the ECU flashed to remove that code, but again, it's not worth the work to "fix" an issue that isn't an issue.

[@MrJrakk]

​@@ImperatorCaesar22have you used an "O2 sim"? The URD O2 sims are not actual simulators, but just a capacitor and resistor to smooth the signal coming from the O2s. You may be able to screw-in O2 extenders and get by that way, but I've never used them and if they didn't work, I'd be putting the cats back on anyway.

[@ImperatorCaesar22]

@@MrJrakk Yeah that’s fair, I’m not saying having a CEL all the time is acceptable though, but there are supposedly ways around it. The only reasons you would remove the cats entirely though are slight increases in MPGs and HP, and ease of installation (mechanically anyways) but of course then on the electrical side you need to fix the O2 sensors. And I have not used an O2 sim but I’ve just been looking into doing something like it. It may be more feasible to do what you did though and keep the cats. ECU tunes are pretty expensive anyways if that was the only option.

[@TheDrAkira]

ohhh this guy is pure gold! Cheers to the algorithm for showing me this video! Great content!

[@SuperNigel61]

This is a great channel, it's like "Bob Ross on Tuning". Keep up the good work!

[@Rocketogre]

For so long I thought the low pressure zone helped "pull" the high-pressure pulses out of the other cylinders. I didn't realize it's the one cylinder helping itself.

[@BRZTrackDays]

"The reflective wave timing is a function of the length and the diameter" thank you for using these words. It shows you have an engineering background, increases your credibility greatly. 👍

[@johnalcala]

I figure this dude has forgotten more tech info than most people have learned. Great video and with that chill smile 😂

[@josephwhite5337]

This is my first time here and I’m beyond glad I stumbled upon the channel. Aside from the great info the smile! I found my cheeks hurting at the end as I was smiling myself 😂

[@helios_123]

it like your trying not to laugh at people behind the camera the whole time 😂

[@jellofuel]

I have Tomei shorties on my cammed 350z, and think I may have left power on the table. They did their own testing on the VQ, but I think they also wanted to leave an option for owners to leave stock cats in place or use their titanium test pipes.

[@miguelchavez3989]

I got a 350z aswell, I just bought a tomei exausht and now I’m looking for a Y-pipe and a headers, you think I should go with ISR long tube headers or go shorties?

[@jordan122095]

@@miguelchavez3989 I have a g37 and I got isr long tubes and y pipe and dyno gained around 15 whp

[@miguelchavez3989]

@@jordan122095 thank you bro, what y-pipe did you go with?

[@jordan122095]

@@miguelchavez3989 the isr performance y pipe, i have a full isr exhaust and intakes and it gained me 50 whp on pump gas, isr is cheaper but its good quality and you get good power gains

[@louiethompson4108]

Love his smile. Its like someone told him a joke before filming, and hes trying not to laugh lol

[@drewmurray2583]

I get a knowledge overload from every one of your videos! Thanks for sharing 😀

[@kevinmanning4880]

Fantastic video! Love the way you explained everything! Always been a long tube header fan. My 1998 Z71 Silverado needs new exhaust. You convinced me to change out the factory manifolds for long tube headers. Look forward to more videos!

[@TROU1984]

I’m working the exact same thing. 96 z71 5.7…how’d it turn out?

[@andrewrackauskas5522]

Excellent explanation how each style works, where to use. Great job.

[@charlesholloman2400]

I learn a lot watching your videos! Thanks for the content and detailed explanations.

[@FTBALLSTAR04]

this dudes liiiiiiiiiit

[@secularargument]

Maybe. I think he’s just Asian.

[@20alphabet]

What's the inside joke that's causing this guy's facial expression? Is the cameraman sitting there in a gorilla suit choking his chicken or something?

[@dennismelville7532]

😂😂😂 No inside joke... but that guy is just really enthusiastic about automotive parts! If the world was ending.. he's who I would hope that delivers the bad news!

[@ramb0r0kr888]

I did not understand the first half of what he said but really did learn something new on the last half. Very appreciative of this knowledge.

[@siliconvalleyengineer5875]

I learned something new about long tude headers and collectors, thank you sir. Could you please do a informative video on heat wrapping headers, and if thats good or bad.

[@Takeitlightly6]

Isnt this the humblest most politest man out there?

[@TurboHappyCar]

Fantastic video! Thanks for the in-depth explanation. Everything's a tradeoff. 👍

[@travismcdermott6825]

That is one happy man. What a special individual. I hope I have his attitude when I'm his age . To top it off he explained everything so well I'm not much of a mechanic and I was able to understand everything he said for the most part

[@willt718]

I was waiting for him to say "dude..." the whole time. great video and very informative.

[@jameseastwood4984]

The positive wave is reflected as a negative wave, which helps scavenge the last bit of exhaust gas at tdc end of exhaust event and beginning of the Intake (i.e. the 'cross over').

[@krow1977]

Happy guy, u can tell he loves his job. He’s the most knowledgeable person I’ve heard explain the difference between long tube and short tube headers. It was almost like listening to a scientist explain metamorphose.. HE ANSWERED MY QUESTION. Looks like it’s short tube for me 😮

[@goratgo1970]

Great, still on point with switching from Hooker Super Comp. longs on my 502 to coated shorty's & TStorm supercharger with added bonus of room to change oil filter, plus no more smashed bottom tubes!

[@controlsaibot9178]

Very informative upload, homie has a smile the entire time and made the vid easy to watch. 💯

[@philly9403]

Love this content and how everything is explained. I can’t be the only one getting Best Motoring vibes from that pointer!

[@adro8010]

I. LOVE. THIS. MAN. Keep up the great work, you are a wizard!

[@NotTheBomb]

I have never seen this channel before. This is not a bash. But I love that the creator, or whoever they have speak on these videos, sounds like the highest dude in the shop.

[@m.s.patrick2863]

how did you find the nicest ,smartest guy in the shop to do this vid, i could watch this cat all day!!!

[@kevingilroy]

Finally a well thought out explanation. I thought I knew a lot. I would say I barely knew 10 percent of this.

[@MagaRickn]

Probably the most informative header video I have ever seen! Lots of data way over my old head! Now if I can just find the best headers for my 427 in my old 56 Chevy. My old Hookers are getting rusty and thin! ;) Things sure got 'spensive' since I last worked on my old car!! :)

[@oregonhighway]

solid information, easy to understand. well done!

[@lifted_above]

Reminds me of the similar dynamics of how a two-stroke engine expansion chamber works, and how the timing is tuned. The thing about any of these exhaust fixtures is they are fixed, not dynamic. They will work most efficiently at a narrow RPM range and less efficiently elsewhere.

[@joebunch3412]

That was the best explanation I have heard about the scavenging process to date. Thank you.

[@Blingstrom]

Excellent video! Really enjoyed every moment of it. If would love to see a video explaining about what Subaru headers you go with and why, hopefully throw in some elh vs uelh information. That would be outstanding!

[@motoiq]

We prefer the equal length for better pulse energy conversion. We also like the firing order separated Full Race twin scroll.

[@Blingstrom]

@@motoiq Can't go wrong with a Full race manifold! I had my eye on their 1.5 scroll for awhile but ended up with an Maperformance Elh as a used deal. I never thought I wanted Elh, now I won't ever go back. Are you going to use a Full race manifold on the latest project? I'd love to hear that with the Cobb titanium exhaust they just released.

[@motoiq]

@@Blingstrom The Cobb Ti exhaust is sick. We are using an MXP equal length but would not hesitate to use the Full Race. A Subaru is a car where the primaries are too long but there is no getting around that due to the engine design.

[@xwavyz3469]

I would've loved to hear you mention how they might affect exhaust tone aswell

[@Mikehdy]

I feel like if you were at a party talking to this guy about what you have done to your engine and how good it is, he would just be listening and smiling while saying yeeeaaap. Little would you know you are talking to an engine genius! What a legend

[@kingpin76110]

THANKS MIKE, AS PER USUAL FANTASTIC breakdown OF THE SUBJECT.

[@hahaha9076]

It's a pleasure listening to you. Priceless info. 👍

[@midnighttutor]

This video was very well presented and the material very well discussed and informative.

[@peterdrury5627]

Excellent discussion and nice mix of theory. I am wondering if the comments on the thermal advantages of stainless might also apply to ceramic coating.

[@mrelectron6220]

Peter Drury ceramic coating absolutely applies to thermal advantages they radiate less heat into the engine bay and keep the heat in the tube where it belongs.

[@BIGMANMUSIK]

He explains everything so well! God bless and thank you 🙏🏻

[@bowhunter4954]

Man this guy knows his stuff. Definitely a good ol boy to have around to ask questions.

[@LaoWaiJac]

Thank you for teaching me in terms I could understand. I feel smarter listening to you!

[@brianpulley8652]

Just found your channel really enjoyed the content and while you probably want ever or have a need to do anything on 2 barrel race engines I'd like to figure out how to squeeze more HP and stay in the grey area in the rules....btw you sound almost like Jesse James when you talk.... definitely subscribing.

[@daymenhinrichs1965]

Thank you for the great audio!

[@rhorn79]

After different videos this one answered all my questions about going long tube or short tube on my truck 🎉

[@Thaib0xer69]

Always, Excellent information provided!!!!!

[@stlhd4lyfe1]

Love the channel. Your knowledge is incredible. Really enjoyed the LS build videos.

[@erikg.4217]

When I have a question, as to "WHY", I know that the MotoIQ people will probably have a detailed video explaining the answer! Thanks you guys!

[@6945484262]

the way you describe everything is brilliant. i just got subscribed

[@MadShadrach]

That was the best explanation about those guys! Thank you so much!!!!