Why the Swiss are losing to the Japanese - Movement Battle!

[@islandwatch]

*** I learned something new reading the comments! I was not aware that Rolex/Zenith decreased the beat rate of the El Primero prior to it's use in the older Daytonas. Wonderful community, thanks for letting me know!

[@gfxdaddy]

Rolex did more than just decrease the beat rate (a downgrade, but done to improve its reliability), they made more than 200 patented changes/improvements to the El Primero, including completely chucking and replacing about 50% of the parts with their own to the point it was pretty much a different movement in comparison by the time they were done with it, and christened it the 4030. Contrary to popular opinion, the Daytona wasn’t powered by an El Primero 400, the 4030 was a different movement, built on an El Primero base.

[@tomlopez9385]

There is a crowd of angry watchmakers outside Mark's shop picketing because Mark touched the movement and was not wearing finger cots.

[@al_in_philly5832]

This made me laugh!

[@Heliconwatches]

Hi Mark, a great video as usual and we totally agree. We actually do know of a manufacturer who Chronometer Certified a regular Miyota 9015 at the Besançon Observatory on the Swiss Border. It was a standard moment, and was done at the request of a good customer to prove a point! Thanks for all the excellent content on this channel.

[@JohnClarkW]

I have a Miyota 9015 on my wrist now, as I am wearing the blue Northport. That watch has become my workday watch.

[@islandwatch]

sweet, thanks.

[@williamfavata3922]

I bought a Marathon Msar from you in June of this year. Lasted till September. Selita 200 movement started helicoptering when winding. Sent it out to Marathon for repair. They replaced the movement under warranty. No charge. I am 0 for 1 with this movement. If I had a do over I would've bought the quartz instead. Great video as always! Never had issues with Miyota 9000s. You are the guru Marc.

[@islandwatch]

Sorry to hear that!

[@williamfavata3922]

All good. Joe Jung at Marathon was exceptional.

[@catlike1]

Yup. I encountered the helicoptering as well with a Hamilton Khaki automatic, which has the Powermatic movement, which is a reduced beat ETA 2824 (to lengthen the power reserve). The watchmaker who fixed said this was quite common and that one should avoid winding the 2824 more than 5-10 times. Just wind it to get it started.

[@williamfavata3922]

That's great advice. I will definitely follow those instructions in the future.

[@Erick925]

@@williamfavata3922my quartz GPQ came defective from the factory but Joe got it fixed up in no time. Was awesome working with him!

[@davidconnelly]

Brilliant video. Real high quality content. Thank you!

[@David-nx2vm]

Marc, great tutorial. I really like your deep dives. Most watch KZbinrs are simple hobbyists or hucksters. You are best at explaining the insane engineering in these machines. As I write this, I’m looking at a 7 foot tall European grandfather clock that weighs almost 300 pounds. Then I look at the Islander on my wrist. How we got here from there is fascinating.

[@islandwatch]

very true!

[@bernardbarroga1497]

Very informative and interesting video. Good job Mark!👍🏼👍🏼

[@mattmcgriff5952]

I have been very happy with my 9011 driven Citizen. One of four from the brand, spanning from a Nighthawk to a The Citizen. All are fantastic watches.

[@parrotheaddanny]

You make the most interesting watch videos on KZbin! Keep up the excellent work!

[@GeeMood]

I have only 1 watch with an ETA 2824 and have had no issues. I have 2 watches sitting in my watch box not running because of the SW200-1 horrible ratchet wheel. I'm not hard on my watches, nor have I ever been an overwinder but within 1 1/2yrs both watches ratchet wheel's teeth broke off. Never had any issues with the 5 watches I have with the Miyota 9015/9039. I have one watch with the Ronda R150 & love that one. No issues at all, so far. I actually purchased 2 ratchet wheel's to repair my watches, but thus far, I have been too scared to do it, since I only found 1 video on the topic 😂. Great topic, as always Marc.

[@islandwatch]

thanks!

[@GeeMood]

@@islandwatch You're welcome. Maybe you can do a learning video on changing ratchet wheel's out on the lousy SW200-1? 😂🙏🙏🙏

[@markthomas741]

Thank you I found the comparison between the two movements very interesting.

[@Kel7S]

Thank you for this video Mark, very informative!

[@Sneka97]

You specifically talked about ETA 2824 and Miyota 9015, but I'd extend the conversation to the whole industry There's also the introduction of the 9075, a true gmt "for the people" at a very reasonable price, while on the other side third party movement production in Switzerland hasn't been very innovative, just making 2824 clones with very little changes except for La-Joux Perret with their G100 that boasts 4hz beat rate and almost 70 hours power reserve, but lo and behold LJP is owned by Miyota So imo it's an industry wide take over by the japanese

[@DekkerExpat]

You can get a Miyota in a Swiss watch. It is called a La Joux-Perret G100. Quite happy with my SW200. I regulated myself and have a consistent +1s a day.

[@theshadow1812]

The G100 is a great Calibre it seems to the more premium option with long power reserve when compared to the Soprod & Sellita options.

[@albertl-ce2kz]

Yes, but more expensive. It's nicer. We are using it in our watches.

[@kresimirpleic]

LJP G100 is not a Miyota.

[@DekkerExpat]

@@kresimirpleic Most of it is. It is the way for Miyota to sell their movement to Swiss manufacturers.

[@RemiX_O]

Right now is a great time to be an enthusiast. I have some great modern Omegas and other Swiss watches, but I'm being pulled further and further into the microbrand space because of Miyota. How could I not; microbrand attention to detail, small business mindset that listens to customer input rather than having to abide to mass appeal, and accurate well made movements coming out of Japan that rival Swiss movements. I'm here for the shakeup and look forward to more Henry Archers, Traskas, etc. to come out in the future.

[@islandwatch]

That is true, our time to shine is here!

[@fsdafas749]

Absolutely, at these price points (let's say 400 - 800$), I think a lot more people are buying watches that speak to them rather than being a statement piece or an investment, thus making 'Swiss Made' less of a factor. Sure with sites like Chrono24 or eBay with its seller/buyer protection it has become easier, safer and more effective to less lower priced watches, I don't think the investment is even on the mind of mo.st

[@GapBahnDirk]

I have to agree about the attraction of microbrands. I looked at an Omega Seamaster 300 Heritage, but went for a more charming Lorier Hydra, especially when taking price into consideration.

[@DW94576]

Plenty of micro brands like that which use sellita movements…

[@albundy3929]

waste of money. buy. a couple of watches and put the rest in index funds. you'll thank yourself later.

[@sinjinadams2862]

Great video, I learned a lot. I do not own a watch yet with this Miyota movement but I am glad to see they are becoming more common.

[@H0kram]

On my Squale 1521 the rotor started to spin with my winding within the first week. I gave it not more than 5 wounds a day. The ETA is still accurate to this day, obviously I just shake it, the seller ghosted me ( a boutique, not a second hand stuff, not everyone runs their business like you ) so I kept it but that broke my expectations towards ETA real quick. Then I had the very same issue with an STP ( 2824 copy as well ) right out of the box and I was done with the 2824 family. Not sure how the Swatch group version used on so many watches perform, with the 80 hours power reserve, but I'd avoid that too. Never had an issue with japanese movement. Also the Miyota is thinner and allows for sleek looking cases.

[@Anirossa]

I really enjoy the Miyota movements I have, even if it is the old cheaper version. I got a Miyota in my Citrizen promaster dive watch and I cannot hear the spinning whatsoever, in my Laco Aachen with the same movement, I definetly hear it, especially if I am inside and it's silent. I don't really dislike it, but I would if it was a dressier watch and not a very toolish one. Accuracy-wise, my Miyota movements beat out my Tissot powermatic 80 and Seiko 4R36. The only mechanical watch I have that beats out my Miyota movements is my Seiko 7S26C that I regulated myself to +2.8s/day on average and my highbeat seagull ST2130 that is silly accurate, running within COSC in 4 positions when messured... Cool video Mark, keep it up! :-)

[@wescobts]

As always another great video. Due to mentioning the ETA 2892 being a really nice movement, what watches do you sell with the 2892 inside ?

[@aaronrosenberg3685]

Was looking forward to this video all day since it got released. Did not disappoint!

[@Stanjara]

This was fantastic video Mark! Love my 9015!

[@islandwatch]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@commandZee]

Thanks Marc! I'm considering buying a timegrapher, please consider making a video on your suggestions for different budgets.

[@islandwatch]

noted, thanks.

[@joeymorris4589]

It’s completely anecdotal, but i’ve had better luck with my 9 series Miyotas over the ETA/Sellita watches I’ve owned.

[@jonahhekmatyar]

Same, I need to get my S200 serviced because it's stopped working when not sitting upright

[@JohanDee]

Same here!

[@wayneholmes637]

My best movements were standard 2824/2836 from ETA while my worst one was a top grade Sellita.

[@larrydalton2205]

Same. Never a Miyota 9000 series movement repair bit definitely had issues with my SW 200's. SW 300 series have been great.

[@islandwatch]

I think that's more common than just your experience.

[@LS1007]

I only have one watch with the ETA movement and one with the Miyota movement and they’re both good movements. The Miyota does wind smoother. Thanks for the video Marc. 🙏🏼

[@islandwatch]

Thanks for watching!

[@jasongennero2080]

The miyota doesn’t have a traditional day date caliber option. And what about the soprod a10? Which was originally designed by seiko before being sold to soprod? The soprod a10 and the Ronda r150 skills both be added in this conversation.

[@simonyu8838]

Miyota's inexpensive traveler's GMT for cheaper than a Swiss caller GMT is evidence enough of the former doing amazing things and not sitting on their laurels. Today in the more budget friendly GMT space, a Swiss made movement has become a negative.

[@paulcundell6254]

All my ETA 2824 movements have had winding problems they get tight and the stem will bend or even brake if you persist in trying to hand wind them, luckily the problems usually occur in the first 18 months and can be repaired under warranty. Never had an issue with the elaboret movements but for longevity with no servicing just get a Seiko.

[@barrettwbenton]

*Excellent* video (yet again), Marc, and fills me in on more than a few things I hadn't known before. My feelings toward ETA soured more than a little some years back when I had not one, but *two* Hamilton Khaki Field Mechanicals pack in on me in the course of a year. In both cases, the manual-wind bits were to blame. (No, I didn't manhandle either watch when winding them.) And, even though Seiko wasn't the focus here, I'm curious about one thing: some folks rag on the 6R series of movements on account of their "only" offering a beat rate of 21,600vph, but next to no one mentions the 6R2x movements, which spec at 28,800vph. My SARW25 (one of the Laurel tribute models) sports the 6R27, which besides sporting both power-reserve and datewheel subdials offers rock-steady timekeeping. Assuming you haven't already done so, maybe a video covering Seiko's mid-to-upper-level movements can be put in the hopper?

[@luked2767]

Tmi makes them 3rd party but they are as expensive as swiss ... The insides are very similar to the Miyota 9000 Not sure if the 3rd party's are made in Japan or not but hard to find anyone selling them. When I buy a watch I like to know I can get spares easy (so I will only buy orient F6 day or day date) or they can be serviced easily like with ETA / Stellita.

[@kaiwilliams141]

I've never experienced the feel or sound of the rotor spin in my islander Brookville with the 9015.

[@drnick40]

Great video Marc. Extremely informative and reassuring that Miyota movements are of a good quality and reliability. Seiko faces a stiff competition.

[@ianmorrison9480]

Great article. You know your stuff. I could listen to you all day.

[@GapBahnDirk]

I have recently acquired a couple of Lorier watches (Hyperion and Hydra) with the Miyota 9075 and this has been my first experience with modern Miyota movements. I am impressed! The movements perform well on my timegrapher.

[@cesarespinozaspain]

Honestly I'd take a Seiko NH movement over any Miyota. All of my Miyota movement watches have that obnoxious single direction rotor and the winding on all of them feel harsher. My Nezumi Baleine (Mioyta 9039) the winding feels just gritty (Like I'm going to damage it) and unrefined. My Erebus Ascent (Miyota 9015) runs at +40 seconds daily. My Bulova A15 miyota 82S6 runs at +45 seconds daily. at least that one winds up kinda smoothly. TLDR I don't understand the Miyota hype, the only reasons I got the Ascent and Baleine is because I love the looks of them and I had no choice in the movement. I have two islanders both both with NH movements (Orange monster) (DLC black Fleiger) run flawlessly along with many other Seiko movements. I know this is Swiss vs Miyota. I'd take Swiss and Seiko.

[@jameskwon7617]

The ETA 2825 and SW200 hand winding gear teeth breaking issue is a real issue. I've had it happen to 2 of my ETA/Selita based movements.

[@luist.1919]

Do you think Swiss movements are more delicate? I’ve had to service more watches w/ Swiss movements than the ones I have w/ Japanese movements. Swiss movements have definitely been more accurate but my Japanese watches have lasted longer.

[@HotelBravo556]

I recently bought a Traska Commuter 36mm. I was a little leery about the -10 to +30 range quoted by Miyota, but the Traska site says they do regulate them. Holy smokes. Mine is running a very consistent +1.5 seconds per day on wrist.. 😮

[@4evalost948]

Your attention to details are great another good informative video.

[@islandwatch]

thanks.

[@scotth1000]

I have a Squale with an SW200. It has completely put me off any watch with that movement. I have a Steinhart GMT with the SW300 and love it. It winds smooth as silk and keeps exceptional time. My Islanders with the 9015 are great. So, if I want an "affordable" Swiss watch that doesn't have a course wind with a propensity to helicopter, I have to stick with GMT movements. Pretty sad state of affairs. But as this is also truly a 1st world problem of very minor significance in the overall scheme of things that ends my bellyaching, and I'll climb down from my soap box.

[@darrensmith6999]

Cheers Mark ! I recently got into Swiss watches with Tissot's PRX Quartz model but was dismayed to learn that some parts of them are made in China Swiss or not Swiss ?? (: Whats your opinion on the powermatic 80? Ps Still loving my Phoibios Sentinel with its Myota 9015 (:

[@AdMaiora2]

Is La Joux Perret movement similar to Miyota 9000 series?

[@zogzog1063]

I only have one Miyota - a Wise Adamascus. Very happy with it. Never had an ETA or Sellita.

[@ahha6304]

I love that Wise finally using ETA, they used NH for quite a time, still as my Thai salary goes, to buy a Thai watch is too expensive for me and I get Avi-8 instead (and even buying Islander plus tax and shipping cost, is still cheaper than Thai watch seriously)

[@andreijochim751]

I'm totally happy with my Kuoe on miyota 9039, runs excellent 👌

[@Jacobruxo]

Great information over this two movements, thanks Mark

[@timandrews6828]

Great video Mark - you always have the most informative content!

[@islandwatch]

thanks!

[@edesbalazs]

I have a single automatic watch, the Timex Galli S1, which ticked all the boxes after months of research. Coincidentally it has a 9000 series Miyota in it. The only big complaint I have is the unidirectional winding, and as a result the rotor noise. I really wish they addressed this, as it's an otherwise very nice watch/movement.

[@ailestriker9888]

I was so disappointed when I wound my SW200 by hand the first time. I almost thought I got a dud because I’d owned 8215 and 4rXX powered watches prior that better winding

[@LTrintukas]

Thank you for mentioning the winding problem on the ETA, I have a 2834 and it is suffering from that. While I got the watch on the cheap, it's really a jarring problem to feel for yourself, I'll do my best to steer clear from any ETA movements after that one, since I don't have access to competent watch repairers. A 30 euro Seiko NH is just fine.

[@Walnutman5700]

Excellent Marc! More like this one! I learned alot!

[@islandwatch]

thanks!

[@shahanulhaque7086]

I can tell my miyota is 90S5 absolutely brilliant 3 -5 second From tisell paid £180 😊😊

[@chosearmandoarmando3864]

I Bought Sinn 556 (with SW200-1) from AD at the start of year, very rough action of movement and some time even helicopter rotor happens. Sent for warranty repair action of movmenet improved but not alot.

[@islandwatch]

Sorry to hear that.

[@frankieb2784]

Loved this Marc.. thank you! Frank

[@alessandrofrikis561]

Go check La Joux Perret and think again if a miyota 9015 can’t be found in a Swiss made watch 😉

[@curt4930]

Great video Mark thanks for posting/educating. I’ve

[@curt4930]

I’m looking at the value of micro brands in a different light after seeing this. I always thought an eta/ selita = better watch now I would be very happy with a 9000 Myota in any mid priced watch & consider it equal quality & good value. My Houtman diver has. Myota & it’s super accurate & I can’t hear it, the watch is also thin for a diver at 10.8mm with 200m!

[@jasonsmith1375]

great video Mark. Thanks!

[@goldenskies9884]

I've had issues with a Sinn I used to own, Sellita movement. Helicopter rotor. Other SW200's I owned were never nice to wind anyway. I don't think I would purchase an entry level ETA or Sellita again. Seiko, miyota or in house for me.

[@ianyoung5619]

I will be honest, I prefer the Miyota 9000 series movement. For the reason Marc gives, cost of the movement which ultimately affects the cost of the watch.

[@trymstrenhauge1512]

I have Great experience with miyota 8204 i think it is in the citizen ny0040. One of my to has benn running fantastic for close to 20 years now

[@CoordinatedCarry]

Honestly, the Seiko NH movement is my favorite automatic movement.

[@collarsncolours]

Considering citizen group also owns LJP, I feel like they should really start producing the 9075 in Switzerland under the LJP name. Would be a gamechanger for Swiss-made brands looking to make a GMT

[@luked2767]

Yes I think so too. At the moment the best 3rd party Swiss is Stellitas version of the 2893 the SW-330-2 as it has 6 parts changed to make it tighter and a near 6 hour power reserve, mine on my Squale GMT is -1 +1 a day super smooth. Soprod makes a GMT but not many know how to work on them. STP GMT movements are just 2836gmt mods so same issues as the 2824 and HZ6460 as in a thick movement plusss I'm sure stp movements are just seagull. Tudor in house movements have alot of problems and I'm surprised no one is making 70h 4hz Citizen could make a movement empire with both company's

[@dimman77]

G100 is basically that. A swiss-ified Miyota 9000 series.

[@luked2767]

@@dimman77 it's kind of strange as it seems miyota based some of it's architecture from Seikos modern 4hz movements as in soprod paid seiko some patents and they have some architecture from them. Some may say the miyota 9000 is a mass produced movement but in reality they all are. I have no problem with u decorated as display backs you only want them realy for handwinders sometimes. Unidirectional winding people look down on it but with bidirectional usualy it takes 25 degrees in any direction to start winding and with uni it winds right away in the winding direction plus it puts more wind into it. Sure I've seen a very noisy 9015 but it was out of spec. While the 2824 is a very accurate movement on the high grades it's auto-works / Handwinding is a big problem. Citizen poured alot of money into this with both the m9000 and MJLP as they knew ETA would have to stop supplying movements. Im making a brand and I managed to produce a watch that's 9.8mm with a 9039 while still being 100m wr, the hand sizes are different as in the tube length but the size of the tube is the same as the miyota 8 and alot of Chinese movements are copy's of the miyota 8 or use miyota hand sizes to make the industry more uniform. People have allways preferred the NH35 over the miyita 82 \ 83 but in reality with modern miyota movements they are much more accurate and made in Japan.

[@sumnercruz4271]

They do it’s a g100 looks almost identical

[@InGratitudeIam]

I've experienced that reversing gear issue with the SW200 movement a few years back and it's starting to rear its ugly head again! I've been impressed with the Miyota movements. They seem to be very accurate. I just wish that they could boost the anti-magnetic aspect. That would be impressive.

[@davect01]

Always appreciate your insights

[@islandwatch]

Thank you

[@gregamos8793]

Great content as always! Thanks!

[@danpo70]

Where do you think the Ronda R150 fits in the movement mix?

[@jersievers]

Thanks for pointing out the ratch issue with eta. There is a 2 to 1 issue so big teeth to little teeth. Very very easy to fix, but this is the reason it winds so tightly.

[@bernardbarroga1497]

Very informative and interesting video. Good job Mark!👍🏼👍🏼 Btw, the Valjoux 7750 is noisy too!

[@johnsrabe]

Thanks for this, as always.

[@LordDouglasPipe]

Very cool video! Just bought a Formex Essence from your shop with the higher grade Selita that's Chronometer certified. Didn't know Selita and ETAs were basically the same. Appreciate the lesson!

[@islandwatch]

Yup, sure are.

[@smallsecondswr]

Brave of you to take this video on, Marc! Lol

[@karyldavidkidd7111]

Solid video An absolute rarity! Substantial critique. Thank you buddy Yep Canuck

[@kevindavis7530]

Thanks for your thoughts on this subject. I found it most interesting and informative.

[@islandwatch]

Glad.

[@justinhendren540]

Other than high end watch movements, it does seem to make sense to swap watch movements out than servicing them.

[@rangersmith4652]

If you wear an automatic watch one or two days out of a month, its accuracy is completely moot. You strap it on at 8am Monday and put it back into the box at 10pm Tuesday, and it has gained or lost less than a minute. If you rotate three or four watches, by the time you grab that watch again, it will have stopped and will need to be reset. So whether it was regulated to +3/-1 makes no difference. If your activity requires a level of accuracy that makes =+20/-10 problematic, you should be wearing quartz.

[@tooslow8150]

I have two watches with a 9 series movement and they both kill on the timegrapher like cosc spec. I've become a fan. +1 time, 300+ amplitude and no beat error in multiple positions.

[@MrShinobi797]

Do you " Hand-Wind " your Selita based watches Marc?? I've heard simliar stories about Winding the movement and longterm durability is concerned. Hence, I've stopped Hand-Winding my timepiece.

[@thomasreuter1968]

Very interesting video! Thanks a lot for that! Let's resume it like that: the Miyota is the watch industry's Toyota: less prestige but 100% reliable. I love this japanese attitude to deliver bulletproof products even though they're maybe not the most elegant coming with loads of prestige.

[@dasuniversumisteintraum]

Great Video Marc 👍

[@islandwatch]

Thanks 👍

[@troublemakingpups5787]

I am a big big fan of the Miyota 9000 series watch movements. It is a workhorse like a Toyota Camery or Corolla. 😉🐶

[@islandwatch]

Yup, but I'd say looks a bit more refined :)

[@troublemakingpups5787]

@islandwatch definitely 😆

[@hardlylaffing]

Marc, what's your take on the PT5000? Some people claim they're unreliable, others swear by them. Would be nice to have a "cheap" (i.e. replace rather than service) high-beat movement...

[@watchalot919]

They can be a bit hit and miss. I had one with a dry reverse wheel stem, because it wasn't lubricated correctly, and another that didn't wind well when on the wrist. However, the one in my Geckota runs very accurately. Worth noting, there are other companies producing the ETA clone, such as Sea Gull and Ronda etc

[@chadlewis4302]

Excellent info. Thanks Mark.

[@benmoore7946]

Professor Marc strikes again 🧑‍🎓🧑‍🏫

[@islandwatch]

LOL

[@sng-]

Hi Mark, are you going to launch the “flightmaster” any soon? Tnx

[@eurovnik]

Top grade also uses a different balance wheel made of glucydur which is more resistant to temperature change than the standard or élaboré grades which use a nickel balance.

[@googleaccount8865]

I've been able to keep my Islander Port Jeff within 5 seconds of perfect time with crown side up. Quite impressive for a "standard" movement.

[@coffeeisgood102]

I am wearing a Timex Marlin with a Miota movement. I love the sound of the rotor each time I move my arm. Like listening to beautiful music.

[@Ballacha]

i hope the aerospace engineer side of Mark will appreciate this analogy. i see the ETA as the Rafale or Eurofighter and Miyota as Saab Gripen.

[@cossack814]

I like the background lighting

[@islandwatch]

thanks!

[@johnm9285]

This video is so interesting. In typical snobbish fashion, I always assumed the Sellitas were superior to the Miyotas given their Swiss provenance and higher price. My first Sellita I bought was in my Sinn 556. When I first received it, it wound SO much more heavily compared to my Seiko’s I actually sent an email to the dealer to make sure this was normal. I have several Miyotas in Traska’s and the fast rotor sound never bothered me.

[@allanweiser6276]

Awesome video, I always wondered about the differences between the two movements. As far has accuracy is concerned, I think the Miyota is more accurate.

[@WatchesWithOliver]

When Sellita was created in 1950, ETA would produce and supply parts and Sellita would assemble deliver the finished movements. Then ETA were also making their own movements but eventually the patents expired which allowed Sellita to continue making the clones. The Miyota 9000 series is fairly new compared to the ETA 2824/Sellita SW200 so time will tell how they hold up along with servicing. In the end, just buy whatever you like - they both are great and it's an awesome time to be in the watch space!

[@zillsburyy1]

do one on why swiss watches are losing to micros

[@danielleavitt5411]

Hi Marc. I have had 3 watches with the SW200/2824 movement get the "gear grind" by frequent hand winding. I never over wound them, but even just "recharging" them once a day would result in a broken keyless works within a year. I also had this happen to a 2893 once. After I learned that this can happen, I use either a watch winder, or do the Seiko Shuffle to get my watches ticking in the morning. The 9015 is a great design, and I'm really happy to see there is a Swiss alternative, the (Citizen owned) LJP G100. It features all the benefits of the 9015, but slightly thicker in order to be a drop-in replacement for the 2824. It is Swiss made, has over 60 hours of power reserve and is better decorated than either the SW200 or 2824 for a lower price. One question on the ETA and Sellita grades. Do they ever upgrade the materials like a different kind of metal for gears and plates, or is it just the level of decoration and regulation?

[@tomholloway7566]

The standard and elabore share the same basic level balance and hairspring, the top and chronometer grades have better glycudor balance and hairspring. Biggest difference is this then the adjustment in more positions plus of course COSC testing for the chronometer grade.

[@ulig12]

My experience with Miyota‘s 9000 series movements were universally positive. Not so much with the ETA and its clones.

[@Thankyou_3]

Great video. Thank you sir.

[@robroberton2667]

I’ve never had a Miyota 9000 but the 8000 series runs well for the low price. I’ve had ETA2824 and 2892 as well as Sellita SW200 and PT5000 movements in many watches. I believe the ETA’s and their clones are worth the premium price due to their consistent time accuracy in any movement position. This translates to great time accuracy whether worn on the wrist or sitting in my watch box wound and dial up. My oldest 2824 is 20 years old, never been serviced and still keeps great time! Thanks for the great review.

[@dahak972]

I have a few Swiss movements and just got my second Miyota 9k movement and they are incredibly accurate right out of the box. I have a Series 8 GMT Pepsi that was only off by 4 seconds after 10 days straight of wear. I just got a Cadisen for $98 with a Miyota 9015 that’s three seconds fast a day. I think they are regulating them better going out the door from the factory and I also think they are better movements in general. They were bound to be more efficient being so new.

[@islandwatch]

Amazing accuracy.

[@McMaxW]

Great video, very interesting! It would be great to see the Miyota vs Seiko NH movement (something less basic than a NH35).

[@richardtwyning]

My money's definitely on the Miyota too. I know we're not talking about Seiko, but the NH34 wasn't a game changer, the 9075 is literally a true game changer. Regarding the sound of the rotor. I have an Islander Monster and I've never heard the rotor, but I have certainly heard the rotor in my RMII, and definitely in my Seamaster Chronograph (the Seamaster is a calibre 3330). This should have been labelled as a watch and learn Marc 😁

[@jeffwhite9028]

I haven't seen a better channel on watches. This is the Top Dog Watch Guy that we have access to. Regarding thickness, ...as an engineer (like Marc) I see pushing "thin" as a high cost adventure. I have a Waltam that died because the gears started jumping teeth. Hell to fix. The thinner the gear teeth ...the more the risk. Same goes for tight stacking of large diameter gears. Want thin? No Date is the BestWay to get there, I suspect. (The movement has to be a dedicated no date)

[@mcy1122]

Great video -thanks!

[@islandwatch]

You're welcome!