Looks like the DLR is finally going to Thamesmead

I know, this is like two weeks late, it's been a busy fortnight. I blame the Overground.
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[@CharlesTysonYerkesOfficial]

TFL really should've hired me, I would've got it done decades, if not centuries, earlier.

[@justinress2782]

You would have connected Thamesmead with Canary Wharf via DLR before Theamesmead, Canary Wharf or the DLR were a thing. Or even TFL for that matter.

[@CoolTransport]

😂ofc

[@eastlancsesteem]

Exactly!

[@John2Ward]

'Offical' ?

[@olumidebashorun3242]

He meant of course

[@sh4dowchas3r]

I suspect Thamesmead residents are more likely to be saying "I'll beleive it when I see it".

[@eattherich9215]

Not in my lifetime.

[@acebatlerx4841]

I'm saying it.

[@atb88]

They won’t get on it anyway because no one there wants to work.

[@dopiaza2006]

More likely they'll be saying جب میں اسے دیکھوں گا تو میں اس پر یقین کروں گا۔

[@murkydepths2023]

Nah they'll be heading to Abbey Wood for numerous rail links instead of a slow DLR which will take the same time if not quicker for 95 per cent of existing and forthcoming residents to reach

[@Ice_Karma]

It seems a very British thing, coming up with a great idea, making a plan, starting construction, deciding it's too expensive, cutting it back to the bone, and ending up with a travesty. 😿

[@sglenny001]

Sadly yes

[@atraindriver]

...and after spending many hundreds of millions getting to the "deciding it's too expensive" part, then claiming that cutting it back or cancelling it will "save money" while conveniently forgetting the many hundreds of millions already wasted. Oh, and at the same time claiming that it's not possible to spend tens of millions in other sectors because "it's too expensive". Yes, Tory government, HS2 + Rwanda debacles and refusal to allow nurses (and other ground level people in state run organisations) anything like a decent pay rise, I'm talking about you.

[@nomadMik]

Sadly not just British. Here's a vid about a NSW example, and separately, there are 50+-year-old stubs on freeway interchanges across the US that lead to graded but overgrown corridors or just sheer drops. kzbin.info/www/bejne/oZubqKqZgpxjrs0si=AQJaX9XM-uD2jlf2

[@chrisamies2141]

A lot of this may have to do with having to put everything out to tender. Companies get the job because of unrealistically low cost estimations, then of course they reveal the real cost and the government no longer wants to pay them. The best way to get HS2 built might have been to get whoever built the TGV or the Spanish high-speed rail network to do it.

[@leondenny4319]

@@chrisamies2141Or have started from the North which lets face it was never going to happen. Was always going to start from London. Got to think though had they started from the North they may have got far further for the money than they actually did?!

[@arthurfarrow]

When our daughter was a student at London Uni in the Eighties, 'hard to let' flats in Thamesmead were offered to them. She said there were few takers, as the flats were in poor condition and it took hours to get into Central London. No wonder they made part of a Clockwork Orange there

[@adrianbaron4994]

Clockwork Orange could be said to be Thamesmead's greatest success!

[@murkydepths2023]

Where in Thamesmead? Can walk to Abbey Wood station in 10 mins from a lot of the original Thamesmead development and the station had 6+ trains per hour to Zone 1 that took 20 mins from the 60s at least until the 2010s when the semi fasts went but tph boosted to 8-10. Now there's the Elizabeth line too. The remoteness of Thamesmead (well, a lot the initial stages) is a bit of a myth. I grew up and worked in the area.

[@mattevans4377]

Looking at the map, and realising this is the penny pinching British Government we are talking about, I wouldn't be surprised if they just used a ferry, to ship people across the river, and improved the buses purely to connect to Abbey Road.

[@tomwatts703]

I'm not even a Londoner and I celebrated internally seeing that video title. Good public transport links (particularly rail ones) are sorely needed right now.

[@AFCManUk]

Well, now that one side of the Chiltern Tunnel is complete, there's a spare tunnel boring machine available. . .

[@daroldcarold3443]

True. TfL could get this done and dusted in a few years if they really wanted to, but, politics, so 30 years minimum I guess.

[@jackmartinleith]

@@daroldcarold3443 With this scheme, I think they really want to. Just for once, politics (the need for new houses, and in large quantities) is on our side.

[@camenbert5837]

In what way could TfL "get on with it" without government funding. And as for "politics", it's much better than the alternative. If you don't like them, campaign to do better

[@AFCManUk]

@@camenbert5837 Why would they need Government Funding? They must have made literally £Millions over the last few weekends from all the 'Free Palestine' numpties!!

[@HesterClapp]

probably a bit big for DLR

[@DanQuine]

Beckton Gas Works has a very interesting history, and had an extensive railway system. They had some wonderful steam locomotives that were extremely low height to fit under the retorts; two of them have been preserved The gas works railway would make a good subject for a future video.

[@grahamstubbs4962]

And if you've ever seen the film 'Full Metal Jacket', you've seen Beckton Gas Works (with added palm trees.)

[@DanQuine]

@@grahamstubbs4962I didn't know that. Thanks for the tip. Time to rewatch FMJ.

[@andrewhotston983]

The ground at Beckton must have been saturated with "interesting" chemicals by the time the gasworks closed.

[@fredsmith6725]

Beckton Gas works is also where Ernst Stavros Blofeld was finally killed off by 007 at the beginning of For Your Eyes Only😊

[@tankmicr00man]

Yes please, my great grandad worked there👍

[@johnmurray8428]

Thank you for an informative video. My humble opinion from a city (Ottawa) that was bus centric for 50 years, go with the DLR option. Politicians promise the earth with “new bus routes etc!” The day after it is all canned. Once they start digging and laying track they cannot back out. Best wishes to Thamesmead, they obviously need. Something good. I hope they get it and not buses.

[@telhudson863]

Alas you underestimate the ability of British politicians to pull defeat from the jaws of victory.

[@user-mx3yk6ie1y]

Well if you are from Ottawa, aren't you already traumatised by the LRT? 😂😂

[@wyvernmodelrailway]

Unfortunately that is not the case with HS2

[@osbornehouse1123]

HS2 was not cancelled between london and Birmingham largely because digging had started and track had been laid, so too much money had gone in for it to be pulled. The branches to Leeds and Manchester were politically easy to cancel for the reason that digging and track laying had not started, only the buying of land. So I would agree once the construction of a DLR project had begun to Thamesmead, it would be politically impossible to ditch, and so start with the tunnel so that it doesn’t get cut to Beckton Riverside only. Additionally, I agree that improved bus services would just be cancelled, and be lost in the political wilderness like supposed improved bus services were ditched in the 60s in the wake of the Beeching cuts to save money, whilst cutting off communities, an effect which has been catastrophic for Thamesmead. It strikes me that the government needs housing built and of all the ‘brownfield’ sites in London, Thamesmead must be one of the optimal examples and the sooner it has a substantial transport connection, the sooner it can begin to re-define itself and become an attractive place to live, a success story in an unsuccessful area of London.

[@TheRandCrews]

@@user-mx3yk6ie1yto be honest Kinki Sharyo brought up Light Metro as an option, and Siemens sued the city for cancelling their train contract for Alstom. Seems like Ottawa’s been taking the wrong decisions.

[@westy6214]

extremely shortsighted to not build Barking Riverside more at a ground level; it would be a lot more useful to extend the goblin than the DLR extension - essentially a railway for a Thames gateway bridge, which is very useful and opens up many new connections.

[@Steve_McMillen]

I came across this concept by an architecture firm called 5th studio years ago, It was a concept of the overground extending beyond Barking Riverside to a station north of the Thames called Creekmouth, before crossing underwater to a station south of the Thames called North Thamesmead. Above water a road crossing will cross roughly across the same location with dedicated pedestrian and cycle paths. Sadly it will only remain a concept.

[@f.g.9466]

I would say the DLR will offer much better connectivity, only a few stops from a direct exchange into the Elizabeth or even the Jubilee, with the DLR going directly to office and commercial areas such as the ExCel, Canary Wharf, Stratford, and all the way to the City. The Goblin goes around London without stopping at any point of interest, offers an exchange at Barking but that's a slow journey on the District into central London, or continuing northbound you can change to the Victoria which is great but rather congested already.

[@Wasserfeld.]

@@f.g.9466 Goblin would go to Abbey Wood though, and Liz Line would've been easy from there. Orbital links East - South East are rubbish and a link to towards Barking and Walthamstow would be very very useful. I'd perfer the Overground to Abbey Wood, even Bexleyheath with the DLR going to Barking Riverside via Creekmouth instead

[@f.g.9466]

@@Wasserfeld. I really don't see why Abbey Wood would be easier than Custom House to exchange for the Elizabeth. Although Abbey Wood is closer, it's also going backwards, Custom House is forward. For the *residents of Thamesmead* the DLR will offer more connections, since it will connect them not only with central London via the Elizabeth but also to the surrounding Docklands area and nearby areas of jobs and opportunities of Canary Wharf and Stratford. AND they will still have a bus service to Abbey Wood if they want to get Southeastern or Thameslink. But I do take your point, that in terms of orbital routes an extension of the Goblin would be more useful for *Greater London* in general rather than the *locals* , it does open new connections that are undoubtedly lacking and are somehow useful. I just disagree that it's very useful because the route of the Goblin doesn't go through points of major interest or good interchanges, so I suspect there's limited scope to the usefulness, demand and feasibility. Better orbital connections are indeed needed though.

[@daveseville7394]

Do you live anywhere near the Goblin line or DLR? Or would do, if they extended it etc? @@Wasserfeld.

[@deadwing04]

The DLR option isn't going to be working well, unless it goes all the way to Abbey Wood. First of all, there would be too many riders towards the city, while if it would connect to Abbey Wood, Thamesmead customers could travel either way. Second, if I'd be a Thamesmead resident, I wouldn't want to choo choo all the way to Bank on the DLR, while Abbey Wood has the Lizzie line, which is 86 times faster than the whacky-bumpy DLR. (Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the DLR, but in this context, I WOULD just take the bus anyway to Abbey Wood.) Moreover, not having enough space for the Overground to go into a tunnel sounds like an excuse. Just look up the Yurikamome in Tokyo, and you will see what I mean. Anyway, the DLR still sounds like the better option, but it *must* go all the way to Abbey Wood.

[@MrSmith1984]

Yeah, it's quite bizzare that TFL would turn down an opportunity to feed additional passengers (from Thamesmead) towards the Elizabeth Line at Abbey Wood. Considering that they changed whole bus routes to feed said line.

[@JoeGrohlDJ]

Don't forget the DLR connects with the Jubilee at Canning Town and the Liz at Canary Wharf. Obvs Abbey Wood is the quicker option, but not the only one. My thinking was what if you were heading the other way, towards Dartford? It does make sense to connect up eventually.

[@MrSmith1984]

@@JoeGrohlDJ I agree with your points apart from one thing. One could more easily connect from Thamesmead DLR with the Elizabeth Line at Custom House instead.

[@zaphod4245]

Yup, overground would definitely have been the best option. They should have built the barking riverside extension with a tunnel in mind, it absolutely could have been built in a trench so it could go into a tunnel. Very short sighted planning there

[@JoeGrohlDJ]

@@MrSmith1984Good point. I forgot about that connection!

[@esmeephillips5888]

Stanley Kubrick: 'Hey, guys, I don't like flying. From now on I will be working in Britain. So does anyone know of a Limey location that could look like a dystopian urban hellscape of the near future? Kinda modern, yet already falling apart, and cut off from everything civilized?'

[@jackmartinleith]

See also The Cement Garden (Charlotte Gainsbourg et al).

[@baywesty]

Thamesmead: hold my beer...

[@qwertyTRiG]

_Beautiful Thing_ was also filmed there.

[@VladimirPutinIsGood]

We Need That DLR Extension To Thamesmead 👍

[@fredsmith6725]

Ernst Stavros Blofeld died at Beckton Gas works at the beginning of 007s For Your Eyes Only 😊

[@UK.RoadsCyclingandTransport]

You have pretty good ideas, I think you should have been hired by TfL because I now realise Rail historians like yourself could play a vital role in the planning of areas along with of course transport connectivity

[@josephbille-volkenborn5597]

Love your videos! Perhaps "tunnel to my tram" was not the best choice of words?😮

[@davidcronan4072]

I would have thought that a high bridge might have got in the way of planes landing and taking off from London City Airport.

[@demonnick666]

They could fly under it.

[@glynwelshkarelian3489]

By far the most likely outcome to the Thamesmead transport dilemma is that the homes will be built and sold; rich people will be made richer; and the promised transport links will be cancelled. This is what we we have become.

[@thesenamesaretaken]

You're not wrong to be cynical but things could be worse, TfL could be under the DfT's control. That's life for most of England outside London. Even the other major city regions that do have transport agencies aren't close to TfL's level, and then there's the rest of the country where we have bus stops, and if you're really really lucky one might even turn up and eventually go somewhere near your destination

[@GojiMet86]

In hindsight, I'd say the DLR platforms should have been built for longer consists. With the amount of branches and future extensions, ridership is one day gonna be more than what the current DLR can provide.

[@TalesOfWar]

It's done pretty well up to this point given it was essentially built on a shoe string budget to begin with.

[@neuralwarp]

DLR works best with more trains, not longer ones.

[@MrSmith1984]

​@@neuralwarp There is only so much you can do on the frequency front and in some cases, it cannot go any higher. Personally, I believe the best solution to DLR Overcrowding would be building additional rail lines to ease the burden on the DLR.

[@jackiespeel6343]

Possibly when they started they did not foresee how far it could extend (it was the Canary Wharf business complex which was a driving factor after all).

[@HuggyBob62]

Don't forget that the DLR is a LIGHT railway

[@spitfire1962]

On a side note. I was listening to Absolute radio today and one of their listeners got a chance to visit Down Street underground station. While they were down there, they had a little quiz and I knew all the answers from watching this great channel.

[@andrewhotston983]

My vote is for the DLR to utilise a train ferry to get from Beckton to Thamesmead. My backup option would be bi-mode DLR carriages that could convert to cable-cars to get across the river.

[@khidorahian]

Honestly, maybe a loop around back to Woolwich Arsenal via Abbey wood would be a good idea.

[@CharlieFlemingOriginal]

2:25 I think a whimsical way to cross the river is the DLR train gets to the river and huge inflatable bags turn the train into a boat and it swims across the Thames with all passengers informed of lifebelts under the seats... anyone standing told to squeeze between the accordion squishy bit between the carriages that will turn into a life boat... the DLR reaching land, turns back into a train. SIMPLE IDEA :)

[@neuralwarp]

Or you could have a level crossing, where the Thames drains into an underground chamber while trains cross. Dream big.

[@someoneno-one7672]

Are you Charlie or Boris? 🤔😁

[@johnplampin7274]

Build two new Thames barriers!

[@HuggyBob62]

You've been watching too much Disney.

[@lawrencewild2523]

Just got out of a showing of "Wonka" have we? Or perhaps too much Chitty, Chitty, Bang, Bang, when little. In any case if you were going to do something like that then a rail car ferry across the Thames would work just as well. Long ago it was how the B&O serviced rail yards in NYC from a terminal on the New Jersey side of the Hudson. It works, if you don't mind a slight slow down for the crossing and connection onto the line.

[@danieleyre8913]

I know that the UK isn’t swimming in cash anymore. But surely the ideal would be: 1) Extend the DLR to Barking Riverside to interchange with overground terminus. This allows Barking residents access to Canary wharf and east London in general. 2) Branch off DLR at Beckton to tunnel under Thames to Thamesmead. Thus Thamesmead residents have to option of either taking the DLR westward or using the Overground at Barking. 3) Then extend DLR at Thamesmead to Abbey wood to interchange with Crossrail. I know it would be a couple of billion dollars. But it would unlock a lot of connectivity issues for the area and be a massive generator of development. Another crossing point of the Thames,

[@stephenjackson2479]

“You are the tunnel to my tram.” I say, steady on!!!

[@Farleigh1050]

I wish Thamesmead was an interchange station with the DLR and overground. Also, a link brtween Beckton and Woolwich would be cool (the bus to King George V isnt counted as it doesnt go under the river to connect to southeastern)

[@iankemp1131]

I was surprised too that it's going from the Beckton line rather than Woolwich, but serving both developments makes sense. As often happens, the DLR seems to be the most cost-effective solution, and hopefully quick to build as they have a good track record (!) with the Greenwich and Woolwich tunnels. Will it surface in Thamesmead? Can there be multiple stations, and maybe end up with a connection at Abbey Wood? Developers certainly seem to be the way to get money for improvements - Battersea Power Station Station (x n), Barking Riverside, Meridian Water. And they do now seem to have to provide the infrastructure before the houses are completed, unlike Thamesmead and various other past projects ...

[@stevieinselby]

The plan I've seen is for just one station in Thamesmead, which is ridiculous. Elsewhere on the DLR, there are stations just half a mile apart, yet Thamesmead is two miles across and definitely merits 3 stations to ensure that all residents have easy access to it.

[@bobsteryt]

​@@stevieinselby Considering the station is called "Thamesmead Central" in all the plans, I would imagine it will be built for potential future expansion east

[@stevieinselby]

@@bobsteryt "Thamesmead Central" is the name of one of the districts within the town, it doesn't necessarily mean they are planning more than one station (although I really hope they do)

[@jonathanma2741]

I think the reason they didnt propose extending the Woolwich line is because the existing river crossing tunnel after king george v turned west into Woolwich Arsenal station. Thamesmead is east of Woolwich, so either the train had to backtrack from Woolwich into a new tunnel, build a U-turn tunnel west of Woolwich, build a new woolwich station on the new alignment, or skip woolwich on the branch to Thamesmead.

[@iankemp1131]

@@jonathanma2741 Thanks, very helpful. That also helps to understand the map at 2:40, which seems to imply a triangular junction at Woolwich/ Plumstead!

[@thomassmith6473]

At this rate by 2100 the east end will be the posh swanky bit...

[@Stollaz]

i appreciate that your last 4 videos have been on the elizabeth line, the underground, the overground, and now the DLR - going through all the major tfl rail services in london! next video on the trams? or the cable car? 👀

[@camenbert5837]

I don't think he's done anything on the bikes yet...

[@SoiBuakhaoRoutemasterbus]

The Jubilee Line was supposed to have gone to Thamesmead, via the southern part of Newham. The Mayor was invited to the opening of the line in 1979 (as was other Mayor's whose boroughs the line was suppose to serve) on the back of this extension although as we know, it never happened...... even though the Jubilee tunnels had already been built through to the Aldwych (if there was no crew relief for a train at Baker Street P10, the set would be stabled in the tunnels beyond Charing Cross. It was one hell of a long walk out once the train stopped at the red stop lights, and the tunnel still continued beyond those!.....

[@sglenny001]

If the tunnels are build why not the the track Answer some lass in form Grantham put uk though a Dutch auction without its famous clock an place we now live in People still vote foe her party why I haven't a clue People are poorer and people are hungrier and many blame the jew Well what to do Be an active member in Democracy to improve our society Plant the trees that shall give shade

[@adrianbaron4994]

The Jubilee Line extension to Stratford was one of the few future-proofed modern transport construction projects built in Britain, and the huge stations designed with increased passenger demand in mind show this, and North Greenwich especially. This station was built to deal with demand to and from Blair's Millenium Wigwam, sorry, Dome in mind, and has enormous capacity plus turnback platforms for trains arriving from either direction. More than this, junction tunnels were built as part of the construction of the line just to the north of the station, although without any track, so that trains from central London could have headed either to Stratford or to somewhere further east. As the unused tunnels point in the general direction of Thamesmead, it seems that this was the intended destination. Perhaps it will be one day.....

[@sglenny001]

@@adrianbaron4994 oh 100% yes thankyou

[@keith800]

All very interesting , I expect a co ordination of all three as not every one will be wanting to go north of the river , but one problem may be the marshy water logged ground and also attempting to build on what may well be industrial ground contaminated by years of pollution from the old gas works.

[@IanTindale]

As a Beckton resident I think the best option would've been to extend the suspended cable car which currently goes from Royal Victoria Duck to North Greenwich to go a few stops further to Thamesmead

[@muzz040]

This would have been so useful for the first day of SL3

[@HesterClapp]

I think the DLR should run express services to Thamesmead, to make the connection faster and more viable e.g. only calling at Beckton Riverside, Custom House, Canning Town, Poplar and Bank maybe also on the Lewisham branch idk how practical this would be but it's cool

[@bengoacher4455]

I was going to buy a flat in the new gallions reach development, but what it really needs is an express route into Bank. It takes 30 minutes to get to canning town by the DLR, and then another 20 minutes to get to the city. If you work in Canary wharf this is probably acceptable, if you work in east london it's probably accceptable. But if you work in west london or the city it's a long time to travel for what is really a housing estate with few amenities (albeit a clean, quiet, safe one that is rather pleasant to walk around and enjoy the river and docks). All of this additional housing is also pushing more people onto a Jubilee line that is already overcrowded. It's hard to add capacity without a whole new rail line, and it's hard to add a whole new rail line without unbelievably high costs. But without the additional capacity it feels like the mayor is going to fall short of his 80% pledge. Not that he will be held to that by the electorate mind.

[@stevesaul7975]

I think the DLR extension from Beckton (or Woolwich Arsenal) would be the best option for Thamesmead. It also gives potential direct connections to central London (albeit Tower Gateway in the case of Beckton based on current service pattern). The London Overground from Barking Riverside is a little impractical. The Elizabeth Line from Abbey Wood might be a better option for some and that at least gives the best spread of connections. Thanks again Jago for a good video.

[@AndreiTupolev]

Talking of Thamesmead, I used to (and sometimes still do) confuse it with Thamesdown, which is nowhere near London but was and perhaps still is the name of the local council area covering Swindon, and the local bus company

[@ricequackers]

"trams in tunnels" - _RMTransit has entered the chat_ But yeah, DLR seems like the most sensible option for the reasons listed.

[@hens0w]

DLR doesn't run on the road, It has 3-5 tunnels already (depending on what you count) as well as extensive elevated sections

[@speight4327]

@@hens0w 4:38, not the DLR

[@hens0w]

@@speight4327oh sorry I missed that thought it was just going to woolwich, so dumb

[@laurencefraser]

Mind you, if I didn't miss an important bit, this is "'trams in tunnels' (as an alternative to 'trams on bridges', for crossing a river)" rather than "'trams in tunnels' (as an alternative to 'actual proper trains in tunnels')".

[@hens0w]

@@laurencefraser well the alternative is separated metro rail in a tunnel6

[@jamesblair18]

Thamesmead will be underserviced by an expensive DLR tunnel and line under the Thames. Thamesmead is closer to Woolwich, and Barking Riverside is a world away and has no links with Thamesmead. The Overground station at Barking Riverside has been built in the wrong place and will not service the housing estates proposed on the North Bank. The alignment is also incorrect to create another railway station for the proposed housing. Another tunnel under the Thames so close to Woolwich looks bonkers expensive. You are right; a DLR link on the South Bank would be economical and preferable for Thamesmeade. Indeed, a spur off the Gallion's Reach line of the DLR and a station at the proposed housing would also be economical. TFL does not have money to burn, and the proposals do still put Thamesmeade at a disadvantage

[@someonebald2022]

"Tunnel? That sounds expensive! No, I think we'll just kick this one down the road a bit...". I hope I'm wrong.

[@SeverityOne]

All those branches make for a very complicated service, though. London's rail transport has so much more branching going on than most other mass transit systems that I know of.

[@MrGreatplum]

It’s good to see TFL looking at some extensions again - thamesmead definitely needs better transport connections!

[@jimparlett4099]

I'd prefer a e-jetski rental service (called Boris Boats?) instead, to take you right into the city (orCanary Wharf) in a few minutes. OK, there might be a few downsides, but it'd be damned good fun!

[@britishguy54dx]

They should extend the DLR beyond Thamesmead back over the river towards Dagenham Dock.

[@RendererEP]

Guess it won't extend to Dagenham Dock and Rainham anymore? They should send the DLR up to Barking station, theres a free ex overground platform for it

[@neuralwarp]

I'd like to upgrade the whole TFL network to DLR. The Central Line will be a challenge.

[@user-mn4cc6bb7t]

I had a chuckle to myself at 4:20 when the comment was made that trains could only run every 15 minutes under the Thames from Barking Thameside. I know I am comparing apples with pears but, up here 100 miles to the north, there are only two trains an hour between the Midlands' two largest cities (Birmingham and Leicester) and the trains take 50-60 minutes to travel 40 miles. It is a different country inside the M25!

[@markdurdle7710]

As much as I would like the becton branch, as I live in the area. I am not sure how useful it will be to people south of the river. As I suspect it may still be quicker to get bus and then Elizabeth line if travelling into london. The woolwich extension sounds better.

[@luelou8464]

Would probably be quickest to take the DLR to custom house and Elizabeth line from there onwards.

[@askinlad]

It should at least link up to the Elisabeth line at Abby Wood Or Belvedere as when its opened one would hope the Elisabeth line goes to Dartford by then.

[@neilbain8736]

Excellent. Not before time. It'll be interesting to see which option they go for and why plus a big dose of when.

[@perrydebell1352]

Two railway spirals similar to the Brusio spiral on the Rhaetian Railways Bernina line to gain height for a DLR bridge across the Thames to Thamesmead would be an amazing spectacle. Build it in steel, of course!

[@davidhumble1679]

Or the rendsburg loop and high bridge. That bridge also has a transporter which could be a fun addition to TFLs portfilio

[@beautymatsipa288]

TFL was quick to build the Barkingside overground station even though Thamesmead was developed before Barking Riverside in terms of housing. They have now introduced a new bus from Thamesmead to Bromley but the residents from North Thamesmead have to walk up to nearly 20minutes to reach the Eastgate Bus stop or Lister walk.These houses were built over 20 years ago but no one thought about the transportation link for Thamesmead residents, it's a joke.😮

[@sglenny001]

Let me guess you live there

[@hens0w]

obviously they need a cable car

[@IIVQ]

My first thought was this is a daft proposal, Beckton is already at the far end of the DLR and it would be a relatively.long trip to already overcrowded Bank. But now the Elizabeth line exists, the transfer can be done at Custom House and that gives fast connections to a lot of places.

[@PavlosPapageorgiou]

I've never taken the DLR but I'm impressed Britain managed to build some kind of rail cheaply and effectively.

[@sglenny001]

Yes somehow in Thatchers britan noless

[@laurencefraser]

My understanding is that half the trick came down to most of the track being there already.

[@julianellis8200]

What interesting research. I find it really interesting, despite the fact that I’m never likely to use such a service since I live 150 miles away.

[@teecefamilykent]

Cracking video sir, at last a rail link for thamesmead.

[@AndrewG1989]

Thamesmead does need alternative transport instead of relying on buses. The DLR extension to Thamesmead is a better option for those who want to commute into Central London much quicker and easier. Since the London Overground was extended to Barking Riverside on the north side of the River Thames.

[@HotTacticalBoyfriendOfficial]

My surname is "Erith", which I believe makes me the Duke or Earl or something of the area (I can't see anyone else claiming the title), so I would like it made a matter of record that I am OUTRAGED that the DLR is only being extended as far as the upstart, johnny-come-lately Thamesmead. I am, as we speak, in touch with a certain Chuck Turkeys (I believe it's pronounced), who assures me this can me remedied for a relatively modest consideration: I'll keep you informed...

[@jonathanma2741]

In my humble opinion, a better idea would be DLR connecting Gallions Reach Beckton Riverside Barking Riverside Thamesmead Abbey Wood (with more intermittent stations in between) I think the current plan for DLR to Thamesmead is the lack of connectivity, especially from northeast to southeast London. There is no good serving a place to the rail line that doesn't connect well with the wider area it serves, like you have to ride all the way to custom house/ canning town to change if your final destination is not on route to Tower Gateway. My idea not only enables quicker journeys in the wider area like barking to Thamesmead , Dagenham to Beckton etc, it also spreads the new passengers from the new line to custom house, abbey wood and barking riverside for connection so as to not overload the DLR; where as the proposed plan I imagine in the morning the DLR train just keep on pick up passengers from every single stations and became extremely packed until reaching custom house.

[@batman51]

It's interesting that as sea levels rise and the risk of riverside flooding increases likewise, the urge to build more and more dwellings by the River seems to increase.

[@highpath4776]

I think DLR from KGV to Thamesmead and Belvedere. The tram idea looks interesting - Route from Woolwich Arsenal (or Ferry poss onto Charlton to terminate at Greenwich Peninsular O2, through the Arsenal site to Thamesmead south then Thamesmead north tunnel to Barking Riverside - Split east to Dagenham Dock and Dagenham Heathway / Chadwell Heath - Romford, split west to Becktons in Beckton existing - run street to meet EL around Excel Centre via Prince George taking the Beckton existing spur. Split north to Thamesview Estate (EL bus route effectively, Barking ( via Gascoigne Estate- tunnel under A13 ), Barking , Ilford, Gants Hill-Newbury Park Loop Ley Street (old NE railway trackbed) Ilford. Presumably needs new residential towers along the A127 and A13 to be effective. Gallions Reach DLR to Barking Riverside to give Barking Riverside better access to Canary Wharf.

[@davidwhite9159]

I lived there from 20 Nov 86 to 20 Nov 93 and when I moved in there were plans for a bridge roughly where this proposed DLR route is shown and this bridge would also have DLR. there was also supposed to be a light railway to Woolwich. Also the 272 bus used to go around Thamesmead and it was a good service.

[@brick6347]

Thamesmead is probably my least favourite area of Novosibirsk. Hopefully the five year plan to build -the tractor factory- DLR works out.

[@CaratacusAD]

wow even more passengers for the "light" railway :) can't wait.....

[@andrerenault]

Thamesmead looks delightfully brutalist

[@Bigaitch500]

That is the most polite description of Thamesmead I have ever seen.

[@adrianbaron4994]

As ever, another well-researched and interesting video from JH. It seems that a DLR extension via Beckton is the most likely to be built if the money can be found ( and we are constantly being told that in the sixth-largest economy in the world and in its largest and richest city, there's no money for anything now ) but if four heavy rail Overground trains would not have the capacity, then it's hard to see how smaller DLR trains could meet the need unless its a much more frequent service. Say twice as many per hour, and TFL would have to ensure that there is also capacity for passengers boarding at Beckton too. Beckton residents wanting to travel West will not be best pleased if DLR trains arriving from Thamesmead are already full. As for routing, getting my crayons out, and oblivious to there being, of course, no money anymore, it looks like Thamesmead needs at least two stations, not only one. Secondly, TFL will seem to be missing a trick if the routing onwards from Thamsemead isn't to end at Abbey Wood, where there ought to be simple transfer connections to the Elizabeth Line and SE trains into London Bridge and Charing Cross as well as East into Kent and even to Europe through Ebbsfleet.....if, yes you guessed it, the money can be found and we rejoin the EU so that Ebbsfleet, where HS1 has a mothballed international station that Eurostar trains pass straight through, is viable again. Of course, we are always being told that...oh, I did that bit. If I were a Thamesmead resident I doubt I would believe any proposal by anyone until it is actually built, and rightly so too.

[@JagoHazzard]

The Jubilee Line extension would have given it two stations.

[@drevo50]

This part of London is so challenging to get to/from. Had to go to Belvedere recently by train; took ages and felt like I’d arrived in outer Essex rather than 13 miles from London Bridge.

[@ankit_adarsh]

Awesome content as always! Would love to hear your view on the new bridge planned in Royal Docks near Excel.

[@henrybn14ar]

Housing on the site of an old gasworks sounds like a bad idea. The ground pollution must be intense, and some of it is volatile.

[@garycook5071]

I think the whole of Beckton is built on that sort of land

[@someoneno-one7672]

Check out Vienna Gasometers 😉

[@jackmartinleith]

TfL has a talent for quietly pursuing rail schemes that appear to have been kicked into the long grass, and this is one of them. The DLR extension to Thamesmead has been the preferred option for some time. Other such schemes include the Bakerloo extension to Lewisham via the two Old Kent Road stations (probably named Burgess Park and Old Kent Road) and New Cross Gate, and West London Orbital from Hendon and West Hampstead to Hounslow with a possible short spur to Kew Bridge. I'm not up to date regarding TfL's current plans for Overground station(s) at Old Oak Common, although aware of earlier and 'apparently' (see my earlier point) scrapped proposals for stations at Old Oak Common Lane (Richmond branch) and Hythe Road (Clapham Junction branch). The Hythe Road proposal was quite advanced, but CarGiant refused to relocate and release the necessary land. I quite liked the option with a single station at OOC Lane then splitting, with the CJ branch traversing a viaduct over the GW main line then running along the top of Wormwood Scrubbs and joining the current route at Scrubbs Lane. There are TfL pdf documents online should you want to check out the various options. If Jago or anyone else knows TfL's latest proposals for OOC Overground station(s), please post a comment.

[@garethmoorhead8237]

As someone living at the opposite end of the world, my only knowledge of Thamesmead is via 'Misfits': it did seem an extraordinary place...

[@calmeilles]

I was surprised to see the consultation. We'd not had the consultation on whether to hold a consultation for this.

[@hreader]

I hope Thamesmead really does get its long-awaited proper transport links!

[@liamtahaney713]

38,000 new homes sounds like should build multiples of these plans

[@redsevenski1478]

The Elizabeth Line proves trains ARE subject to traffic jams frequently

[@laurencefraser]

Mind you, the causes are rather different. Roads have traffic jams as a consequence of successfully doing the things they are intended to do (at least when alternative options are insufficient), while railways Can have that problem (most of the point in HS2 was solving that, actually... too bad. It's also the reason for Japan's big maglev project), it's more typical that any jams come about as a result of Failing at doing their job in some respect.

[@JW1_1]

2:58 someone appreciates your humour 😉😄

[@julianaylor4351]

Film trivia : The Thamesmead Estate was used as part of the dystopian world of Alex and his gang in A Clockwork Orange. Must have annoyed the local council after they realised, the nature of the film, that they had agreed, could use it as a location. The film was very controversial at the time, as was the novel it was based on, or maybe they didn't care...give us the money.

[@LancashireLass]

I thought you were going to say "Anyone familiar with the history of Thamesmead will be thinking 'I'll believe it when I see it '".

[@jackiespeel6343]

With the 1960s and public transport - Ernest Marples, Minister of Transport had a vested interest in the roads. (What would Yerkes and Marples having a stand-off have resulted in?)

[@sglenny001]

I feel they will be great buds but not tell anyone just gambling on if projects get though whilst brunel just gets embarrassed

[@mancubwwa]

What I can't understand is why branching Elizabeth Line beyond Woolwitch (or more precisely, near Plumstead) was never conisdered. It looks like an absolute simplest option for bringing rail to Thamesmead and would offer faster connection to central London than any of the considered proposals.

[@MrSmith1984]

Its mainly because they want to extend the Elizabeth Line to Gravesend via Dartford at some point in the future. Plus, there is only 12-15tph to play with in relation to the Whitechapel to Woolwich/Abbey Wood section anyway.

[@luelou8464]

An Elizabeth line station would be way more expensive, adding the junction would need a new cavern, and termination of the trains would be far more complex. The DLR gives better local connections, and people can change onto the Elizabeth line at custom House if they want a fast route into London.

[@mancubwwa]

@@luelou8464 1 and 3 are fair point, nut I don't understand the cavern comment, as branching would be beyond Plumstead portal.

[@toddhunter3137]

The Thamesmead sounds a bit like my tower block estate in North Manchester. No rail link. But the 118/119 bus services are pretty good from the Whitemoss shops, and the parade of shops are good, most are open now and trading which is nice. We have a nisa with a post office, a pharmacy, good old English chippy, a wines shop, herbalist, beauty salon, and a good household goods store.

[@melonusk234]

Rather than having grand (expensive) plans drawn up to tunnel under the Thames with Light Rail, would connections not be far better to the city and the rest of South London by taking a spur off the Elizabeth Line at Plumstead and head up the old line towards Eastern Way and then on towards Belvedere and Erith. The Elizabeth Line trains to Abbey Wood could then be alternately routed between Abbey Wood and the new spur. The relative cost savings of this option could easily free up funds to run a continental style tram system or upgrade the local buses to fill in the gaps.

[@xander1052]

a Barking Riverside option would be a massive, complicated 21st century version of Tower Bridge, but for railways. Understandably TfL hasn't hired me to design our rail network.

[@ahuman9143]

wow how wonderful for an area of london that already has abbey wood station much nearer to it than areas in havering that travel to their nearest station...

[@paulhaynes8045]

There's a bit of a London-centric thing going on here. True, most people in Thamesmead will probably want to go into town more than anywhere else, but they'd probably also want to go south and east as well - maybe to get to Ebbsfleet for the HS1, or shopping at Bluewater, or maybe even for a day at the coast, or down into Kent. A spur from the DLR into Thamesmead, doesn't help any of this. Much better would be an extension of the DLR from Woolwich Arsenal (via Woolwich, to give a much faster connection for Central London), or a new DLR-style line (or tram) to Abbey Wood (again to give a much faster journey into town). Both of these routes would also give access to Kent coast BR services. If the spur across the river from Beckton IS the chosen option, then this should carry on to Abbey Wood - or maybe Erith and Belvedere (as a definite part of the extension, not a possible future extension - we all know what happens to them...). And, getting back to Beckton - if the justification for the extension from there to Thamesmead is because an extension to Beckton has to be built anyway, well just build an extension to Beckton! And then build a much better line to Thamesmead, as outlined above. This has the huge advantage of avoiding yet another tunnel under the Thames.

[@ShedTV]

If they keep on adding to the DLR they'll have to give the various lines their own names for the gutter press to crow about.

[@kidmohair8151]

it always surprises me that the powers that be need to "consult" (mostly for show it seems) about ponying up for new transit links, as, time after time such expansion always ends up either being very beneficial, maybe even paying for itself (in the long run), or, will need to be constructed later, at a much, much higher cost

[@kidmohair8151]

02:57 a maniacal laugh bursts from the station…could it be KGV himself, enraged at his consignment to the underworld? well…overground DLR...

[@santorini8423]

It should be called the ‘clockwork orange’ station..

[@tonylancaster8704]

Great video, for quite sometime time i have been trying to remember where i saw the water feature shown in this video so now I know where it is I have one less thing to try to remember which is lot when you get to the ripe old age 76 thanks for freeing up a few more brain cells

[@timothymeyer3210]

2:10 Drawbridge on a driverless light rail line when?

[@user-xl7sg7vv3l]

And while they are at it extend the Elizabeth line to Dartford which is already a hub from north Kent and Medway which for example would take passengers though the city and on to the western side of London and heathrow and beyond.This would greatly help with the M25 crowding. Two birds with one pie in the sky

[@eastlancsesteem]

Good news indeed! 👍🏾🎉🥳

[@zaphod4245]

Wrong decision imo, should have extended the overground from barking riverside to Abbey Wood via thamesmead. A much more useful river crossing, provides a link between 2 hubs, and provides thamesmead (and barking) to the purple train. I mean they kinda tied their own hands by building barking riverside on a viaduct rather than in a trench to make a tunnel much easier, which was very short sighted planning.

[@DanBen07]

You should do more videos on TFL consultations. 👍

[@CB-zr8fq]

Why not combine some of the proposals and make the Becton line loop round Becton riverside, barking riverside then under to Thamesmead and on to abbey wood and Woolwich creating a loop service. Connectivity is good then with Overground and Elizabeth Line, also connectivity between current Becton branch and Woolwich branches as it would now just be a loop

[@dodgydruid]

I lived on Thamesmead in 95 with new born youngest daughter and I never had any problem til two feuding drug suppliers had it out on my landing and one ended up brown bread in me doorway and I was like to me missus "we are outta here" moving to Gravesend first then Cornwall then returning back up to Bournemouth where me mum was. One thing that is never talked about is how the residents of Thamesmead itself built upon the footfall of the Royal Arsenal didn't know that stored in said arsenal were nuclear tipped tactical and strategic nuclear weapons for artillery and missile use and a whole lot of explosive if had gone up would have taken Thamesmead and much of Plumstead and Woolwich with it... It was the provo's that scared the bejasus out of Thatcher when they took out that pub opp the barracks (my old barracks, yes was a long range sniper for me sins) that put the willies right up the tories if the IRA had decided to attack the arsenal and within a short time frame plans were drawn up to move all the blowy up thingies out of the arsenal and tear the old buildings down and make a convenient fortune putting new buildings and a prison on contaminated land as they did. I lived in Maplin House, the focus for Aphex Twins "Come to Daddy" video, also seen in Misfits and Clockwork Orange :)

[@dodgydruid]

Forgot to mention AJS motorcycles were built in the long gone Rotunda of the arsenal and next door to that was where London Transport scrapped all the trams and trolleybuses then turned the scrapland into a convenient bus depot.

[@Mk-fg9zf]

Live in gallions reach. Should have used option of barking riverside. Gallions reach needs more bus’s

[@weepy]

It used to have many more but tfl axed them 2 years ago

[@jackthetrainspotter9727]

I would build a rail line from Plumstead paralleling Nathan Way (with 4tph from London Bridge and 4tph from Clapham junction via Peckham and Lewisham) or extend crossrail from Abbey Wood to Thamesmead with all Abbey Wood trains continuing up to Thamesmead.

[@nigelkthomas9501]

I’ll believe it when I see it!

[@Wasserfeld.]

While I get the reasonss not to extend the Overground, I'd still perfer it. Could even extend the H&C line down it to add frequency. The DLR just doubles up on the connections already avaliable from Abbey Wood and Woolwich Arsenal. While the Goblin opens up East and North London, massivly improves East - South East connectivity and would probably reduce a load of pressure off the Woolwich Ferry and Blackwall Tunnel - seems bonkers that's not being pursued. As for Barking Riverside - we did the same thing for Island Gardens DLR - Yes it's cheper to rebuild a DLR station, but in the long term, it's worth the cost. You could probably re-coop significant costs from rebuilding Barking Riverside station underground with rents/selling flats/shops on top